Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #398 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 398 Saturday, 26 July 1997 Today's Topics: Quest for KC MIDI files Mike Keneally, new box, Yes Floydmania/Total Mass Retain/Yes, No, Maybe More Canucks go Schizoid DGM review round-up pricing? expenses! On yet another anti-prog diatribe. Yet another post on Italian prog rock Cancelled G3 Dates Pet sounds = Epitaph ? Re: Elephant Talk Digest #396 Fripp beliefs David Cross; Forbidden subjects Easy Money versions on TGD Larks' Tongues & Much More, all In Aspic Radiohea, have they been listening to 70's KC? CGT and John McLaughlin IIIIIIII'm a dinosaur!!! Bill Frissell HORDE Fripp and the Occult 'Live in Japan Laser Disk' Cat Food Face Off Pink Floyd, More Live KC, ELP Oprah, Glass, MARS, Lake's Voice in Tarn-X, Women Aud-Fans from prog rock to Crimson Re: EASY MONEY on TGD ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:12:48 -0500 From: Ramesh Iyer Hello Toby: Just to let you know that the Official U.K. WebSite - RENDEZ-VOUS U.K. is up and running at the following address: http://www.geocities.com/paris/8099/uk.html Of interest to KC fans will be Bill Brufords heavy involvment in this project. More news to come... We have put a link to your site on our links page. your site is wonderful (as usual) and I look forward to your comments, Best Regards, Ramesh Chasing The Dragon: The Official John Wetton Web Site URL: http://www.geocities.com/paris/8099/wetton.html Rendez- Vous U.K.: The Official U.K. Site URL: http://www.geocities.com/paris/8099/uk.html E-MAIL: ramesh at haynes dot com ------------------------------ From: max dot bracco at iol dot it Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 00:16:37 Subject: Quest for KC MIDI files Hi to all ETers, I checked both the sites indicated in ET links for MIDI stuff, and also other MIDi sites : I found good to excellent versions of RED and 21st CSM, Frame and few others. But I can't find in any of these sites LARKS, SAILOR's TALE, GREAT DECEIVER and VROOM. Anybody could give me clues where I could find such MIDI songs? THRaKByes MAX from Italy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:05:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mike St. Clair" Subject: Mike Keneally, new box, Yes Some ET reader said: >Steve Vai is a showman and as such he put on a nice show. I found myself >watching his madhatter guitar/keyboard player, enjoying his abilities and >enthusiasm. Ah, another ET reader who appreciates Mike Keneally. I really like him and his music, he's definitely the best Zalla alum from the 80s IMO. Check out his album 'Hat' if you want to know what he is really all about. ET reader #2 said: >I'm afraid I cannot be as forgiving as others on the >subject of Mike Keneally's soloing over the soundscapes. To me, it >seemed >RF and MK were working very much at cross purposes. "The right note >sounds >very much like silence" we have been told from the horse's mouth, and >even >the horse looked kind of wearied and annoyed by Keneally's flash-antics. >Perhaps the G3 opening spot is intended as an exersise in martyrdom. I find the whole assessment of the situation (not the music) odd. I find it hard to believe that a) Fripp would allow other musicians in his 'scapes against his will, b) that Mike Keneally would join in if not explicity invited, and c) that Satriani would put up with the situation either (he's sort of Bob's advocate in this G3 thing, is he not?). Anyhow, while I can imagine a failed experiment, I certainly can't imagine a martyr type thing here. *sigh*. I've got to hear some live soundscapes one of these days. A million commitments keep me from every E3 date unless I get lucky this fall (and I don't know if RF will still be with them, do you?). Insanity that RF has to be surprised when he finds a paying producer for such events. The Penultimate quote, from yet another ET person: >A 90s CD is not really necessary... B'Boom fills that need. Maybe A CD >containing minimized overlap with B'Boom... that way we could enjoy >Thela, >ToaPP, Elevens, Prism, 21stCSM, Neurotica, and Waiting Man at home. I can't disagree more. While B'Boom is great, the lads *really burned* after they had been together longer. ET dude #4: >Rick Wakeman left the group a few months >ago, due to differences with Jon Anderson. (who can blame him?) Wakeman loves Jesus, Jon's a pagan. Me? I'll take a nice ale any day. Seriously, all this Yes talk is growing tiresome. I know that Yes will never be off topic due to certain connections, but this is getting out of hand IMO. Cheers! ***Mike St. Clair***mstclair at iglou dot com***irc:SaintMick*** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:09:07 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Floydmania/Total Mass Retain/Yes, No, Maybe >From: Alex Brugger >Subject: pink floyd > >I saw them starting their show with Astronomy Domine but I'm afraid >to say that although it was by far the best song of the gig (together >with One of these Days) it just doesn't sound so well anymore, does it? >if you compare the recent live versions of these songs with older >renditions you just have to admit that they are so bloody much weaker >these days, aren't they? The enthusiasm is just gone and probably lost >forever. Well, as far as I'm concerned, the fact that PF tries to perform their old songs EXACTLY as on the albums (including note-for-note guitar solos) puts the group squarely in the realm of Beatlemania (the Broadway show, not the emotional state). And at least Beatlemania didn't pretend to be the real group! Thumbs way down on The Division Bell and A Momentary Lapse of Reason also -- just blatantly contrived caricatures of the '70s material. ("Let's see -- how can we fit girly choral voices into THIS song...?") I wouldn't go see the current PF live unless they sent a limousine for me. And even then, I'd insist on a fully stocked bar in the car, so I could get comfortably numb before having to endure the show. >From: jmooney at bigyellow dot com >Subject: ELP tour > >I hear they've resurrected the flying piano rig from '73; after reinforcing >it, they're going to try to lift Greg this year, instead of a piano. HA HA! Brilliant. :) >From: jcsvy at cts dot com > >RE: Good Yes albums. There aren't any. Every Yes album is drenched >with goofy lyrics and overbearing keyboards. And what's up with that cape? > I must say, I find it interesting how many KC fans also enjoy Yes, ELP, >and other proggers. To my ears, KC (except for the pre-'73 stuff) sounds >nothing like those guys. King Crimson has always had a lean economical use >of sound, and no masturbatory soloing. > >For anyone interested in GOOD music (and since you're all KC fans, you must >be)...forget prog-rock. Crimson has lived to see greatness by ABANDONING >that silly stuff. > >What has enabled Crimson to survive beyond the 70's is growth beyond the >prog-rock world. I like -- LIKE, not love -- Yes, but I agree totally with these points about King Crimson and prog-rock. Eb, who would take Pet Sounds over the entire KC catalog without a moment's hesitation PS Horror of horrors: Are you folks aware that Tony Levin plays bass on the new KENNY LOGGINS album? Eek! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:49:16 -0400 From: Anthony Marco Subject: More Canucks go Schizoid Just a note of interest to all ET'ers... Montreal metalheads Voivod (previously having tackled PF tunes Astronomy Domine and The Nile Song on albums) have released a cover of 21CSM on their latest CD. Although I haven't heard it, their Floyd covers were done pretty well, so here's hoping we don't have another April Wine version on our hands:) anthm ------------------------------ Subject: DGM review round-up Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:04:37 -0400 (EDT) From: innerviews at pobox dot com (Anil Prasad) Just a quick note to let you know you can find reviews of the following new and upcoming DGM releases on Innerviews: Bill Bruford - If Summer Had Its Ghosts Robert Fripp - November Suite King Crimson - Epitaph http://www.innerviews.org/ Thanks, ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Anil Prasad innerviews at pobox dot com ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ INNERVIEWS: Your link to exclusive interviews and CD reviews featuring the world's most interesting and innovative musicians! Visit Innerviews at its new URL: http://www.innerviews.org New interviews: Gary Willis/Tribal Tech, Emit/Time Recordings Tony Levin, My Friend The Chocolate Cake, Michel Cusson ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:39:46 -0500 (EST) From: "M. S. AtKisson" Subject: pricing? expenses! > From: enderle > > I recently purchased Live In Japan via PossProd US mail order service... > ... Imagine my surprise when I walked into > Tower Records and saw it for $17.99, just a day after I received it in the > mail for $20 + 15% (!) postage and handling. That's a lot of > handling. After reading all of RF's rants, over the years, against record > company greed, I find this a little hard to swallow. I am less certain > about how PossProd and DGM co-mingle, if at all, so maybe my disgust is a > bit misplaced here. Probably... I'm now venturing into the world of being a record company and doing some self-distribution. Just the production costs are not cheap. If you add in staffing an office, and business expenses I haven't yet encountered (being infinitesimally small, so far), it goes up. It is _much_ cheaper for a chain record store to buy a large lot and put it into their existing stores through their existing distribution network (which is also carrying Celine Dione (great voice, lousy taste in material)). My interest in this venture is to get my brother's (and eventually my own) music out. We want to make back what it cost us, and make a little money, but I'm not quitting my day gig. As such, we are less profit motivated than someone who is relying on their business income to eat. Yeah, it costs more, but they cost more to stay in business. If you don't support them (and PossProd does have things the chains don't), America falls further into Generica. Done preaching. Peg. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:12:09 From: Scott Hamrick Subject: On yet another anti-prog diatribe. Someone wrote: >3. RE: Good Yes albums. There aren't any. Every Yes album is drenched >with goofy lyrics and overbearing keyboards. Much like King Crimson's, they're also packed with crafty musicianship, inventive arrangements and a rather original, non-commercial approach. (Pre "90125" of course.) >For anyone interested in GOOD music (and since you're all KC fans, you must >be)...forget prog-rock. Thanks for telling us all what to like and not to like Mr. Hitler. >Crimson has lived to see greatness by ABANDONING >that silly stuff. Is there really any relationship between a tune like >Thela Hun Ginjeet and Exiles? Exiles has none of the supposed marks of prog rock that you describe, such as "masturbatory soloing," cape-wearing keyboardists or "goofy lyrics." I think it's a beautiful, emotional song with excellent lyrics that happen to mean a lot to me. >What always made King Crimson stand out in the 70's was their extensive use >of GROUP improvisation (not like Yes with Rick Wakeman's wank-o-rama >approach). This put them closer to jazz-fusion groups than to prog-rock. True, but who is to say that improv is necessarily better than highly orchestrated "wank-o-rama" music? I like them both. "Starless & Bible Black" and Yes' "Close to The Edge" are both in my top ten list. Both are excellent, ground-breaking progressive albums, yet they have different approaches. >The best music is borne form improvisation (IMHO). I guess arranged pieces like "Fracture" suck then. So do bands like Gentle Giant, Univers Zero, Magma and Anglagard - all "prog rock" by some definition of the word. They all play complicated arrangements that aren't improvisational in nature, so I guess they're no-good wankers. I guess you also didn't know that KC also improvised BEFORE 1973 (back when they were still playing that silly prog rock stuff) did you? See "Lizard," "Moonchild" and the recent "Epitaph" box set for proof. >Listen to Miles Davis. I do. He rocks. I still like Yes. >And throw out those Yes albums. Kind of makes me wonder if you've ever gotten past Rick Wakeman's cape and really _listened_ to a Yes album. It's the music that matters. To everybody else on ET, especially the younger members, let me say one thing: Forget what it's cool to like or not like, forget what Rolling Stone Magazine or crotchety prog haters on ET tell you is good music. Form your own opinions by actively listening and discovering new kinds of music (Old music is new if you've never heard it.) I didn't grow up listening to prog rock in the '70s when it was relatively popular. I discovered it on my own amidst a Generation X world of musical nonsense. When everybody else my age was listening to Nirvana and whatever else MTV stuffed down their throats, I was going against the grain (being "alternative," if you will) and discovering Yes, Genesis, the Mahavishnu Orchestra and eventually more avant-garde groups like Magma, Tangerine Dream and Univers Zero. You're perfectly free to like or not like prog rock, jazz fusion or any of the artists that operate within their realms, but decide for yourself. As a misguided, self-righteous Smashing Pumpkins/Lenny Kravitz fan once told me, "Free your mind." Bring on the flames. Scott Hamrick for more wisdom on that silly prog rock stuff visit: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/8827 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:11:54 +0200 From: Alessandro Bagno Subject: Yet another post on Italian prog rock Organization: Dip. Chimica Organica Dear ETers: I have recently seen some discussion concerning Italian prog rock groups, among which someone cited Sensations' Fix. Apart from being one of the best and most underrated groups of that era, their first album is noteworthy for a sentence appearing in the fine print among copyrights and credits. It ran (I am citing from memory): "Dear Robert, you will be glad to hear that the heavenly music corporation is here too." Now, if someone out there could suggest who the hell this "Robert" is... -- Alessandro Bagno Centro CNR Meccanismi Reazioni Organiche, Dip. Chimica Organica Universita' di Padova, via Marzolo 1 - 35131 Padova (Italy) tel. +39 49 827-5660; fax 827-5239 http://www.chemistry.unipd.it/PDCHOR/Mechanistic/solv.html ------------------------------ From: Mark Jakusovszky Subject: Cancelled G3 Dates Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:58:56 -0600 I think I can answer this one. The new issue of GUITAR magazine (or another of the same genre, they're all pretty much the same to me) had a bit on RF as well as G3 and in it they indicated that KWS had to get back into the studio to finish up his album (record company PRICKS (to coin a phrase from FZ)). Therefore, some of the tour was postponed. They rescheduled the Colorado show to October (and changed the venue from the idyllic Red Rocks to the HOLE they played in last year; Mammoth Events Center). Check the Joe Satriani web site for the latest dates (www.satriani.com). Thrak ON! Mark J. *************************************************************************= ************* Here in Houston, the G3 show scheduled for July 11 was canceled a couple days ago. There was no explanation announced. Does anybody know what happened and whether or not there might be "make-up" concert at a later date? I was looking forward to it. Oh well. Matt Miller ------------------------------ From: "Ott, John" Subject: Pet sounds = Epitaph ? Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:44:11 -0400 ----quote--- Brian Wilson (visionary of the Beach Boys) heard the Beatles album "Rubber Soul" and thought he had to top it. He made "Pet Sounds" (while his other bandmembers complained....they wanted more "Surfin USA"). Paul McCartney heard "Pet Sounds" and thought he had to top that. So the Beatles did "Sgt. Pepper." "Pet Sounds" is really good stuff. ----end quote--- I saw an interview with Wilson recently where he gives more credit to Phil Specter as being an influence on Pet Sounds. He wrote "Don't Worry Baby" for the Ronettes but Phil passed on it. Brian really never "got" what the Beatles excitement was all about. McCartney does acknowledge the "pet sounds" influence on Sgt. Pepper. I don't see the connection to Epitaph in all of this. But coming from a Rolling Stone critic take it with a grain of salt. later John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:29:39 -0500 From: Marc Mehlman Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #396 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 18:37:20 -0700 From: jcsvy at cts dot com Subject: USA, et al For anyone interested in GOOD music (and since you're all KC fans, you must be)...forget prog-rock. Crimson has lived to see greatness by ABANDONING that silly stuff. What always made King Crimson stand out in the 70's was their extensive use of GROUP improvisation (not like Yes with Rick Wakeman's wank-o-rama approach). This put them closer to jazz-fusion groups than to prog-rock. The best music is borne form improvisation (IMHO). Listen to Miles Davis. (Bitches Brew is a good starting point for those still into Prog. rock) Listen to Wes Montgomery (one of the best guitarists ever). So what your saying is that the best forms of music incorporate jazz? Now, while jazz may be my favorite, I don't chide rock for being rock. Granted, prog-rock sank from the "wank-a-rama" excess, but so did jazz-rock fusion (which you point to with bitches brew). You're also writing off several other musical genres which many consider to be superior (like classical. What does Wes Montgomery or Miles have to do with any of this? Wes was one of the jazz greats and wrote several good tunes. However, he ofetn crossed over to the pop world and his playing wasn't as strong for his era. Django Reinhardt, Charlie Christian, Barney Kessel and Tal Farlow all ran rings around him. As far as Miles is concerned, you stress GROUP improv (which means swing or New Orleans style). Miles Davis's music was solo improv. Just because everyone in the group solos doesn't make it group improv. That requires everyone to solo at the same time (and that solo is usually arranged). There is a big difference. And while a lot of prog and fusion used to many syths, that doesn't mean they were'nt good or didn't improve. I think you should listen to Jethro Tull (especially "Thick as a Brick") and tell me they don't improv. Arguably, they do it better than KC. Marc Mehlman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:19:07 -0700 From: josh Subject: Fripp beliefs Re: Tim Rowe's question about Fripps beliefs (et #394) >From the many interviews available over the internet with RF, it seems that the biggest philosophical influence came from his time spent at I.A.C.E. (which I believe stands for International Academy for Continuing Education) Sherborne House studying under J.G. Bennett, a pupil of G.I. Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff was a student of many schools of mysticism. As I understand it, he was well-versed in the teachings of Sufiism, Rosicrucianism, and many other -ism's that I can't recall off the top of my head. For those who are curious, there's an excellent book by J.G. Bennett which serves as an introduction to this philosophy called "What are we Living For?". For those curious about the origin of the phrase "It is impossible to achieve the aim without suffering" from Exposure...here's your answer. The book is available from Bennett books in New Mexico, (505) 986-1428. If you're at all curious about Fripps philosophical influences (as I am) this book is a must-have. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:44:51 +0100 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: David Cross; Forbidden subjects I noticed that Possible Productions has a selection of David Cross recordings available. Can anyone give me an idea of the musical style and quality of these recordings? Are they instrumental, and, if so, are they conceptual or merely musicians showing off their technique? An Eter asked about a certain American composer and many of us responded--not knowing that so many others would respond with similar information. Rather than threaten, perhaps the solution is to edit? Also, I agree that "Yes sucks" posts (etc.) should be eliminated, but I find those postings no less relevant than other postings concerning bands other than KC. I, for one, would prefer if this did not become a general "Prog Rock" page. (Just, as the saying goes, my two cents worth.) ------------------------------ From: "Chris Mitchell" Subject: Easy Money versions on TGD Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:31:10 -0400 Regarding a post in ET#397 about the Great Deceiver versions of "Easy Money"...there are no edits as was on USA, and the four takes are rather different from each other. Providence - This one rocks hardest (god I hate that phrase), and it has a humorous bit in the first verse...apparently Wetton could not keep a straight face during Fripp's take on cliched rock guitar. The end leads to "Providence," the jam that was edited for RED. The full version is of course on TGD. Glasgow - Doesn't gel well, despite some nice, jazzy Fripp runs during the middle. The actual recorded sound doesn't have much of the *immediacy* of the other versions. This one leads into "We'll Let You Know", edited for S&BB. Penn State - Only the first two verses are played, with some droning minor guitar fills (emphasising the F# and G over E minor bass). The middle section takes off into an improv titled "It Is For You, But Not For Us." Over seven minutes, it's a nice jam, similar to other Easy Money jams, but it resolves itself and does not return to the third verse. Zurich - A great version (and a great show, BTW). The middle is funky, nice dynamics, excellent Bruford, etc. etc. It won't blow anyone away like the Providence take but there is little to complain about here - I think it beats the studio take by far. No improv at the end. Hope this helps - I'm actually working on a Crimson book at the moment, which will mostly be a companion to the recorded work. Anyway, the Great Deceiver set is highly recommended.............. chris ------------------------------ From: Ted White Subject: Larks' Tongues & Much More, all In Aspic Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:15:14 -0400 Back in 392 Neal Brown started a thread about the title, "Larks' Tongues in Aspic," and I've been waiting for someone to point out that this is a "dish," larks' tongues in a clear gellatin, which probably has never really existed, but if it did it might be Chinese or at least Asian in origin. I have always regarded it as a metaphor of sorts, tying in with the apparently Asian (language) voices in "Pt. 1." (Does anyone besides me care about how much more full-dimensional, as music, "Pt. 1" is over "Pt. 2"? "Pt. 1" is credited to the band, "Pt. 2" to Fripp. I've always assumed "Pt. 2" came first, and "Pt. 1" was the band's elaboration on it. But I've never heard of "Pt. 1" being performed live by any of the band's incarnations, while "Pt. 2" and the 80s' "Pt. 3" has been performed live many times. "Pt. 1" strikes me as much richer and more subtle.) In 393 Christopher Jepson remarks upon the phenomenon of listeners "behaving as they might behave toward someone they already know, but to the musician, they are total strangers," and asks, "Does anybody else experience this?" This is a common occurrence for entertainers of all sorts (even writers of published works), members of whose audience feel they "know" the entertainer through experiencing his/her work. When we find a book, a record, or a movie (or even a TV show) we like a lot, it becomes "ours," and we make it part of ourselves, creating the illusion that we "know" the creator, who of course does not know us. Many musicians I've met seem to welcome this "familiarity" since it implies a common, shared interest in their work. Francois Couture mentions Boud Deun, a band local to me (whom I met at Progscape last year). I like them, but I wouldn't compare them with KC. A much more appropriate comparison would be the original Mahavishnu Orchestra (B.D.'s lineup is identical except for the absence of keyboards): high-energy music played at only two tempos, fast and faster. An hour of listening to this band live is exhausting. Mehlman, in 394, really started something by asking "Who the hell are...Pet Sounds?" Plenty of people responded to that one. But why in hell did ROLLING STONE make such a weird comparison as stating that 1969 KC was "closer to the elegiac orchestral design of Pet Sounds than trademark Yes or Genesis"? I hear virtually no connections between even the most avant works of Brian Wilson (whose music I love, and have a lot of outtake boots of) and the original KC - and while nascient Genesis was around in 1969 (but had yet to record anything memorable yet) Yes was not, and why SHOULD "Epitaph" sound like either one? A fairer comparison MIGHT be with the Moody Blues "Days of Future Past;" it was at least around in 1969, albeit not very similar. Typical of ROLLING STONE, to me: essentially ignorant of all but the (advertised) mainstream of rock. Adam Klin echoes my own sentiments concerning Ptree, but I hear few KC influences in their music, in contrast with the obvious Pink Floyd influences. Adam also asks about buying "the other 2 CDs" of "Epitaph," vs. buying an 80's KC album. The short answer is, buy them all, at whatever rate you can afford. But if you liked the "Mars" on volumes 1 & 2, you'll also like the versions on 3 & 4 - which vary in performance considerably. Personally, I like the "Epitaph" CDs better than any 80's KC album, but that's just me. --TW (Dr. P) ------------------------------ From: Tim Regester Subject: Radiohea, have they been listening to 70's KC? Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:11:58 +0100 Hello ET'ers I wholeheartedly recommend the new radiohead offering, I already liked their first album, but when I got the new one I felt as if I was listening to KC OK some of the songs are a tad more commercial the KC would produce, but the structure, feel and level of musicianship is well up to par. It gets my complete seal of approval. On other matters I have been unable to find either the latest Tony Levin or Adrian Belew albums anywhere in East Anglia, I am going to Lodon this weekend. Can anyone tell me where I can get them in London? Cheers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:42:38 -0400 (EDT) From: PaulyRich at aol dot com Subject: CGT and John McLaughlin Hello All, The California Guitar Trio has just finished a 6 week project which included the East Coast tour with the Trey Gunn Band, 2 weeks recording for the new CGT album at a small chapel in Salt Lake City, Utah, and a spectacular gig in Quebec City, Canada with John McLaughlin. Thanks to all those who came to see and hear the CGT / Trey Gunn tour on the East Coast. We plan on doing more touring together, possibly on the West Coast (of the USA) this coming fall. If any of you have suggestions for good venues for this tour, please email me the info... PaulyRich at aol dot com The CGT has completed the recording for our new CD. We recorded everything using our new custom built Somogyi CGT model Guitars in an old chapel that has been converted into a recording soundstage. What a great sound!!! We have sent the tapes off to England for David Singleton, Robert Fripp and Bert Lams to listen to and begin the mixing and mastering process. Hopefully we will have a new album available in the not too distant future!!! On June 29th, we did a big show with John McLaughlin in Quebec City, Canada. The concert was at an outdoor stage in a large park near the old part of town. Before the gig, I was on the side of the stage with my guitar around my neck, getting ready for sound check. John McLaughlin walked over to me and was curiously looking at my guitar. I nervously introduced myself, Bert and Hideyo and then he asked where we were from. McLaughlin stuck out his finger and strummed the open strings on my guitar with a puzzled look on his face (Normally I am not so keen on people poking at my guitar, but hey, this was John McLaughlin!). I began to explain that we used a different tuning, as he walked away he said something about the regular tuning being enough for him. The CGT was well received by the crowd of nearly 6000 people. We played fairly well, but it can be very distracting performing to such large crowds... lots of people taking pictures, talking and mulling around... very dispersed, hard to focus. After our set, back by the dressing rooms, McLaughlin gave me a pat on the back, although I don't know if he actually heard anything we played. When our new album is released, we will be doing a fair amount of touring. We are especially interested in performing in places that we have not gone before. If any of you have good suggestions or know promoters that would be interested in having us, please contact me or our management (Catalyst) at CATMASTERS at aol dot com take care, Paul Richards ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:08:58 -0700 Subject: IIIIIIII'm a dinosaur!!! From: abhiman at juno dot com with regards to Alex Brugger's recent Floyd-bashathon, i would like to state a few ideas that came to mind... Pink Floyd and King Crimson are two wholly different bands, with a different framework and a different reason for existence.....as a devout Pink Floyd fan i have heard ALL the arbitrary comments fly by about if the band should have existed or not, following Roger's departure in '85. I don't think the passion ever escaped. I was 10 when i saw my first concert, and it happened to be the Floyd...1987. easily the best day of my life. i have seen them approximately 10 times since....hardly a "waste of money." what defines "weaker", mr. brugger? lack of seventies' long hair? less of an emphasis on drug-inspired material? don't get me wrong, the Live in Pompeii (1972) video is amazing...just realise that bands should not be scorned for evolving. We ALL know of the drastic changes in personnel that King Crimson has gone through for the past (almost) 30 years. you are correct in that the enthusiasm of the "old days" might have slipped. but in it's place has come something new...the 3 Floyds are in their early to mid 50s now...and they have evolved. I invite all of you ETers to a good headphoned listen of their latest release, 1994's " The Division Bell". Hardly "boring"... still shining on... abhi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:16:02 -0500 (CDT) From: cain joren reid Subject: Bill Frissell Since everyone wanted to propose the jazz equivalent to Robert Fripp awhile ago, I thought I'd mention a jazz guitarist that is nothing like Fripp. Bill Frissell is a guitarist (maybe everybody knows this, in which case this posting is useless), whose CD's can be found in the jazz section. Upon hearing him , you may think, "Hmmmm, this doesn't sound like jazz; he just missed that tritone sub." He's very cool, however,and I would recommend checking out "This Land" or his live album ("Live"). The live one is with a drummer (Joey Baron) and bass player (Kermit Driscoll) and is fairly experimental. Of note to all of us KC fans, he gets some very strange sounds out of (I believe-I am not a guitar player) just a couple pedals. "This Land" is a more polished studio album, with added sax, trombome and clarinet. This is very good. He isn't as "heavy" as any Crimson (although Frissell has played with John Zorn), but it's something new (it's not too nuts, don't worry). It's not rock, it's not jazz, but it's somewhere in between. Hopefully you'll like it if you check it out. MUSIC IS THE BEST-F.Z. Joren Cain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:41:00 -0700 (PDT) From: J Young Subject: HORDE Coz said: *-------------------------------------- Just picked this up from "Wall of Sound," and thought the ET crowd might find it interesting. With these guys, Primus, Beck, Ben Folds Five, and Medeski, Martin, & Wood (at least on some dates), this is looking like a heck of a tour. Even better if you like Neil Young. As you may notice, the article doesn't know if any of the mentioned musicians will be touring. Has anyone heard this album? ----------------------------- Lest you forget, Soul Coughing is on some dates. This is of course directly relevant because the good Mrs. Belew and Fripp went to see them in nashville, according to Belew's KC rehearsal diary. And Ween is on a few dates. It looks like there are only two cities where it all comes together and you get Beck, Primus, Soul Coughing, and Ween on the same bill: albany and boston. Lame bands like Leftover Salmon and Toad the wet sprocket play every date. Here's the site where you can figure out the bands coming to your city. http://www.hordefestival.com/framesjs.htm shamus ------------------------------ From: "Mark Fenkner" Subject: Fripp and the Occult Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:56:38 -0400 I would not consider Fripp's involvement in "personal evolution" relating to the occult in any way. But in regards to his background, all I can state is that during the time he left the music scene (in the 70s), he studied at a residency program at the Society for Continuous Education, founded by J.G. Bennett (a student of Gurdjieff). I do not know if he is still involved with the same work (commonly know as the 4th way) but it seems that he has found has own path. To get an idea of possible current influences/involvements, the books of A.G.E. Blake and his contemporaries might be useful. Fripp's name is mentioned in some of the books in the list of "thanks". I myself have wondered what his current "path" is but I suppose that knowledge is of little use to me. All I can say is "God bless him" for surely he is offering influences that have extended the possibilities of many people's lives. Sincerely, Mark Fenkner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:34:21 -0700 From: Slava Subject: 'Live in Japan Laser Disk' Does anyone want to sell 'Live in Japan' Laser Disk? Possible Productions doesn't have it in stock right now.... :( Any ideas where can it be ordered besides PP? Slava ------------------------------ From: Taylor Sherman Subject: Cat Food Face Off Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:47:43 +0000 Who did the score for the movie Face/Off? One of the main themes in the score is the bass riff from "Cat Food." It opens the movie! Cool, even if no one else got it. Although, it is note-for-note, so I wonder how close to the copyright infringement line it gets. Hmm. Taylor ------------------------------ From: "Andy Gower" Subject: Pink Floyd, More Live KC, ELP Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:39:51 -0700 I like them, but the days of truly monumental recordings have long since past. I even read a Gilmour interview, where he said that the days of experimenting had passed the band. I just don't understand what they hope to achieve by continuing. Charging people for a nostalgia trip is making PF rich. What's all this about more live 90s KC? This VROOOOM x4 thing. Drop a short personal email to explain. I saw ELP on the Black Moon tour. It was one of the worst concerts I had been to. Too short. Palmer is a good drummer, but the music just didn't seem inspired or move me. Andy Gower Vancouver, Canada NP. Epitaph Disc 2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:34:55 -0700 From: Herb Boardman Subject: Oprah, Glass, MARS, Lake's Voice in Tarn-X, Women Aud-Fans Organization: Ministry of Stacking Things on Top of One Another --------------283301757AE7BD477C787EC2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, all. A few kibbles: 1. Oprah Winfrey had a segment recently on celebrities who overcame failure to succeed. She mentioned Elton John being turned down by "the legendary British rock group 'King Crimson'". This is somewhat misconstrued, I believe. Wasn't he too expensive? I think RF wanted EJ to chime on "...Poseidon". 2. I am now aware of who and what Phillip Glass is. ( - - So are we all. - - Toby :0) 3. Just bought "Epitaph". Great buy. I especially enjoyed "Bearings", "Mantra", the two "Capricorns", (the Mellotron jam rules!), and the two "Mars:...". I'm currently drumming in a trio, and we are planning on using our own version as set-closer. My Roland TD-7 module comes in handy. I programmed the 4-1-3 "dirge" into the machine, freeing me to strike drums, cymbals, gong, TD-7 pads, and keyboards. The guitarist has a GR-01 (as does ABelew?), so he does the 'Tron parts. So if any of you ET's are in Eugene, Oregon and you hear of a band called "Ice Nine" ( I chose "Relayer", but lost the coin toss!) playing live, check us out. Also, I'm not aware of being related to Gustav Holst, but it's amusing to lie about it to people. 4. Concerning the recent hemhaw ("..these are words with an 'h' this time...") over Greg Lake's ability/inability to sing, I saw ELP in Salem, Or Oct 26, 1996 (anyone else?) and his singing, especially on "Still, you..." was breathtaking. Perhaps the naysayers saw performances at low-key venues with Peavey loudspeakers, but he sounded wonderful to my cynical ears. (See ET364 for more on that concert.) 5. Any women KC fans in Eugene? (Wishful thinking...?) Regards, Mike Holst To reproduce is human, to create is divine. --Maynar A band is only as good as its fans. --Mike Holst ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:38:47 -0600 From: ecerb at indra dot com (Elaine C. Erb) Subject: from prog rock to Crimson > jcsvy at cts dot com wrote: >3. RE: Good Yes albums. There aren't any. Every Yes album is drenched >with goofy lyrics and overbearing keyboards. And what's up with that cape? For me it's good to hear this perspective. I used to like Yes, back when "Close to the Edge" was freshly released. I think of them as one of the many bands who served as a stepping stone to my love for King Crimson. I can't believe how many years my copy of ITCotCK sat unused in my record stacks while I thought the punk movement was going to go somewhere. To me, Yes and ELP just don't have the depth and the interest to make me want to listen again. But what fun to build up the collection of old Crimson with all the great rereleases that are being made available. I think that many of those bands opened my ears to the outer limits in rock but Crimson pushes all the way to the edge of the envelope - still! One question though. With all these references to Eddie Jobson all I can recall is how Edwin Jobson played for Roxy Music (another band I can't listen to anymore). Could someone help me fill in the gaps in his career? Thanks, Elaine (Still looking for a night to take the time to submerge myself under the headphones with "From the Caves of the Iron Mountain") ------------------------------ From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:48:06 +0100 Subject: Re: EASY MONEY on TGD In ET#397, Carl Didur writes > Now, as I sit here listening to what is possibly my favourite > Crimson or otherwise song existing on the planet, Easy Money, I have to > ponder anew the purchase of TGD. Well, there are four 'versions' of it in TGD. I'd say all 4 have a great deal more 'atmosphere' than the studio recording. It is very interesting how they vary, there is some fine guitar work on the version on disc 2 (I think it's 2) and real crisp tight bass and drums. If you've got the (easy) money, buy the box! You also get interesting new angles on many other pieces and then there's the wild improvs too. Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #398 ********************************