Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #396 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 396 Sunday, 13 July 1997 Today's Topics: Cancelled G3 shows. top 9 reasons why women... Fripp's Occult History TABs (1) acoustic E-bow - (2) Tony Levin with Pink Floyd USAII Release Yes & Epitaph re: Rolling Stone review/Tortoise & KC Samuel Barber & silence PossProdPricing invitation and thrang*2 G3 plus RF - Riviera, Chicago 6/29/97 Lark's G3 VROOOMx4 "Take It Back" re KC unplugged I'm a dumb ass and I listen to Tortoise pink floyd and KC Fallen Angels Cancelled G3 shows. Bozzio Levin Stevens review Fripp and G3 in Tonowanda Re: Epitaph - Rolling Stone review - Tortoise, Jessamine and Pet Eddie Jobson ELP tour Fripp: time to revise opinions of music biz? Devotees on HORDE tour (possibly w/Trey Gunn, Vernon Reid) Prince Rupert's complaint Re: Rolling Stone review aspic meaning Happy Family pissing on THRAK ? USA, et al miscellaneous RE: Elephant Talk Digest #394 Catfood/Oracular trey gunn's other albums ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: mmiller at pop3 dot wt dot net Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:53:35 +0000 Subject: Cancelled G3 shows. Here in Houston, the G3 show scheduled for July 11 was cancelled a couple days ago. There was no explanation announced. Does anybody know what happened and whether or not there might be "make-up" concert at a later date? I was looking forward to it. Oh well. Matt Miller 1606 Regal Blue Court Fresno, TX 77545-9521 (281) 431-4115 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 10:46:45 -0700 From: spike Subject: top 9 reasons why women... He are the top 9 reasons why women don't like KC: 9: It's King Crimson, not Queen Crimson. 8: Women aren't intellectual enough. 7: Women can't count past 4/4. 6: There is nothing to clean after Tony and Trey have rattled the dust off of the cupboards. 5: Women don't play drums or guitars and can't appreciate Robert, Adrian, Bill, or Pat. 4: The word "Love" doesn't appear throughout KC lyrics. 3: Women don't like aspic (however lark's tounges are just fine). 2: Men use KC as a weapon when arguing. and the number one reason; 1: WOMEN DO LIKE King Crimson, they just don't post to this silly I'm-better-than-you-boys-club newsletter (OK, so I posted, I can change my mind, it's a woman's prerogative). Well, back to the laundry, kids, and reading humourous internet newsletters. Take it easy, spike Life's a blast, let's explode! [ OK. No followups on this please -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 17:54:30 +0100 From: Tim Rowe Subject: Fripp's Occult History Greetings! It's the first time I've posted to the list. Thanks to all for the wonderful diversity of topics that are introduced and discussed. I've been deeply influenced by Robert's music and also what snippets of his personal philosophy I have gleaned from soundbites and interviews here and there. Does anyone have any details of his interest in the Occult, Wicca and so forth? I have been involved in these areas for some years now and wondered if anyone has any details documented anywhere - perhaps on a website? Thanks in advance, Tim Rowe London England -- There is not one truth, nor one path, nor one problem, nor one answer. When any one is asserted one contracts. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:57:15 -0400 (EDT) From: WrongWayCM at aol dot com Subject: TABs Hey all, I'm working on a guitar transcription for VROOOM VROOOM but I'm a little unsure of what Fripp is playing in the bridge (alternate Red bridge). If anyone has already figured it out, or has a good ear and wants to take a crack at it, I would be interested to know what you come up with. My friend and band-mate-bass-player, George is busy working out the bass line to the piece (he posted VROOOM I think). I also have some parts of Larks' III, Indiscipline, Thela Hun Ginjeet, Pictures of a City/A Man, a City, Waiting Man, Walking on Air, THRAK, and Sleepless to share but have yet to write them down. (note - these are not complete, just a riff or two) -Colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:59:44 -0700 Subject: (1) acoustic E-bow - (2) Tony Levin with Pink Floyd From: abhiman at juno dot com (Abhiman T Bungale) regarding the E-bow being used on an acoustic guitar... David Gilmour used it to incredible effect on Pink Floyd's 1994 release, "The Division Bell." Jon Carin (Floyd's second keyboardist) sampled and looped Gilmour's E-bow/acoustic playing and used it to start off songs such as "Take It Back", "Coming Back to Life", and "Keep Talking". also, just an FYI for you all....Tony Levin played bass on Pink Floyd's 1987 release "A Momentary Lapse of Reason." Gilmour also asked him to tour for the album but Tony declined stating that he had already made plans to tour with Gabriel at the time. in music, abhi ------------------------------ From: "Barrie Sillars" Subject: USAII Release Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:22:55 +0100 I hope all this talk about USA will spur Fripp on to finish the mastering of the CD release and stop all this postulating. [ "postulating?" -- Toby ] I will buy it simply for the Easy Money improv. which has never been bettered. I talked to Fripp about the Spring release at the recent Soundscapes playback in London. It seems that Virgin records are getting a tad impatient. So some on Robert, get cracking! ------------------------------ From: "Andy Gower" Subject: Yes & Epitaph Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:43:22 -0700 First, my apologies for wasting bandwidth on Yes. Union does suck. From what I've read the band was dissatisified with the production. Producer Jonathan Elias apparently added keyboard overdubs after the band was finished. I don't understand how a band that experienced can let their art get screwed over by a producer. They don't have anyone to blame but themselves. I'm glad Bill is back in KC. Close To The Edge is good, The Yes Album also isn't bad. Most Underrated Yes Album=Big Generator. Well, I own Epitaph. I had been warned of the poor sound quality, but I guess I expected it to be similar to TGD. Oh well, I have only listened to the first two discs. I can't believe the intensity of the performances. Fripp downplays his guitar playing ability at the time, but I find his work to be interesting if not technically brilliant (like everything after). A Man A City is quite impressive. 21CSM is a steamroller (even Bruford can't top Giles' drumming on this song). Mars deserves to be placed in a film alongside some huge war epic. Truly frightening music and I haven't even listened to disc 3 or 4 yet! When I got Epitaph, I also got a copy of Fripp's bible. His business dealings are laid out a newsletter that follows a simple Q and A format. Fripp the interviewer allows Fripp the interviewee to explain all the things he's been blabbing about for the last couple of years. Very informative. Although, how do Fripp's aims differ from Discpline's aims? I hate to sound snotty, but hearing that Fripp wasn't heavily spotlighted during the wankarama finale makes me feel better about not going. For those who listen to Fripp's Soundscapes, which is better live or studio? I also heard complaints that Lake sounds like George Thorogood? ELP's Bad To The Bone!!! (Thorogood got a good voice and is a wicked slide guitarist) Also, if anyone's heard the new Radiohead album "OK Computer", please comment. I read a five star review from Q magazine and other good reviews. Supposedly they use keyboards (mellotron, synths) and the album is very moody, technological and atmospheric. I just find it hard to believe that Radiohead can produce a great album. Live Long And Prosper Andy Gower ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 19:23:10 -0400 From: Bill Wade Subject: re: Rolling Stone review/Tortoise & KC MEHLMAN sez: > It's official: KC's "Epitaph" pulled down 3.5 stars (out of 5) in >Rolling Stone #764. A couple questions: RS says KC "anticipates the >avant-prog [sic] romp of recent underground bands like Tortoise and >Jessamine" and is "closer to the elegiac orchestral design of Pet Sounds >than trademark Yes or Genesis." > Who the hell are Tortoise Jessamine and Pet Sounds? Can > someone please fill in the gaps? Tortoise are a rather mellow band that produces uncomplicated, vaguely jazzy instrumentals. They're similar to The Sea & Cake, which shares at least one member with Tortoise, and are a slightly less energetic version of Bedhead. The comparison to KC surprises me, as they really have little in common, so far as I can tell. However, don't let that put you off as, while an acquired taste, Tortoise are quite good. They've at least 2 albums out on the infamous Thrill Jockey label. Pet SOunds, I imagine, is a Beach Boys reference. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 18:32:39 -0500 (CDT) From: cain joren reid Subject: Samuel Barber & silence I have never heard of Fripp mentioning Samuel Barber as an influence (as opposed to Holst, Bartok, or Ravel). I mention this because if anyone has heard Barber's "First Essay For Orchestra" they would recognize the theme from "In the Court of the Crimson King." It's not exact, but very close. I was wondering if that was an accident, or if Barber was indeed an influence. Regardless of that, it's still a cool piece (the Barber, I mean). The question of silence in Fripp's recordings came up a couple of et's ago. Here are a couple ideas: Fripp has talked alot about the role of performer, audience, etc. Not only does silence get the band thinking the same way, it also gives the audience member a chance. I know you want to hear some music, but you'll enjoy it more if you can get in the right state of mind also. Silence is also important in music. The extreme case is John Cage's "4'33"". It creates space and can be a major part of any piece of music. Sometimes, nothing's as shocking as silence in the middle of a song. Try it, you'll like it. Joren Cain ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 15:10:26 -0700 From: enderle Subject: PossProdPricing I recently purchased Live In Japan via PossProd US mail order service. Can't say enough about the tape, have watched it several times and will enjoy it again and again. I didn't know that it would be sold, however, for much less at the retail level. Imagine my surprise when I walked into Tower Records and saw it for $17.99, just a day after I received it in the mail for $20 + 15% (!) postage and handling. That's a lot of handling. After reading all of RF's rants, over the years, against record company greed, I find this a little hard to swallow. I am less certain about how PossProd and DGM co-mingle, if at all, so maybe my disgust is a bit misplaced here. On another topic...I note that a number of ET'ers appear to be in the Seattle/Vancouver area. Are there any general gatherings, locally, that I am missing out on? I would enjoy the opportunity to hook up with other KC enthusiasts. Those interested are welcome to e-mail me. Frank (enderle at concentric dot net) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:14:45 +1000 (EST) From: j dot keens at rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens) Subject: invitation and thrang*2 due to circumstances beyond my control (priorities in $ distribution) i finally got down to these in my list (ok, invitation was 2nd hand) and wanted to share my conversion. Invitation (calguitrio) is better than i had expected: i had delayed buying because i thought it would be more crafty guitar work, which while enjoyable is assisted by diversity (for example, the europa string orchestra does great crafty with cello etc). well, this is a beauty, very nice variety, crafty but with some interesting additions and musical selections. Thrang had taken longer to get to the top of the list, but my double cassette of_ league of gentlemen/let the power fall_ had always been a winner so it had to be got eventually. powerful little disc - the energy of the group was fantastic. nice fripp announcement at the end. a surprise was fripp quoting tamm in the liner notes. a question - how can one version of 'inductive resonance' be new ('coyright crimson music') and one old (EG)? having posed the question, i can answer it (having just looked more closely) and track 2 (thrang thrang gozinbulx 1) is credited as an 'old' track, so i think that the 2 beside EG Music should have been a 1 (solved as i wrote this). two more great DGM releases! jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:07:54 -0400 (EDT) From: TomMiles at aol dot com Subject: G3 plus RF - Riviera, Chicago 6/29/97 G3 plus RF - Riviera, Chicago 6/29/97 Overall, the concert was well received by the audience; a key element to a good concert. RF presented Soundscapes as pre-concert music, much like "pussyfooting". Anyone who wants to see/hear RF should be in the concert hall when the doors open, not show time. Crimson fans received RF well - Others acknowledged him and the sound favorably - While others thought that he was "just tuning up". Unfortunately, due to heavy traffic, I was able to experience only twelve minutes of his appearance. Soundscapes places me out of body in a soothing way; while my best friend describes the sound as music to a bad dream segment of a movie. If I was able to experience the entire appearance, I am sure I would have lifted from the crowd in total ease. Kenny Wayne Shephard looks like Daniel Johns (silverchair) and wants to be SRV. An evening in a decent Chicago blues bar would have supplied superior music. Steve Vai is a showman and as such he put on a nice show. I found myself watching his madhatter guitar/keyboard player, enjoying his abilities and enthusiasm. Joe Satriani is a fine guitar player. He is capable of driving you against the wall, yet as my art teacher so wisely showed me, there is quality in negative space. I recall a Bruford interview where he credited RF for making him better drummer because he learned when not to play. His bass player was ok, leaving a bit of a mark on me yet nowhere in the league of Tony Levin or Stanley Clarke or John Wetton in his prime. G3 gathered in the forefront for four or five songs, while RF sat in his customary spot. When Joe turned the solo over to him, RF laid down some impressive licks in less than 60 seconds that matched or exceeded anything G3 embellished in the forefront. I tip my hat to RF for his performance and gentlemanly demeanor. Any fan of RF or the guitar in general should attend this tour. Best Regards, TomMiles at AOL dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:13:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Urizen00 at aol dot com Subject: Lark's G3 VROOOMx4 Hello, Talkers. My take on the meaning of "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" is this- After hearing Ralph Vaughn Williams' "The Lark Ascending", in which the solo violin takes the part of a lark soaring to the heavens, I thought that perhaps the KC album title might be a tangential reference, in order to describe what the music is like- the soaring lilting tongue of a lark, severed obscenely and pureed into a meat jello. Doesn't that just sound like the relationship between David Cross and the rest of the band? I share the disappointment of ET'ers who did not arrive at the G3 shows to see much of Fripp. I managed to see two full soundscapes, about half an hour, in Minneapolis. I'm afraid I cannot be as forgiving as others on the subject of Mike Keneally's soloing over the soundscapes. To me, it seemed RF and MK were working very much at cross purposes. "The right note sounds very much like silence" we have been told from the horse's mouth, and even the horse looked kind of wearied and annoyed by Keneally's flash-antics. Perhaps the G3 opening spot is intended as an exersise in martyrdom. I really wonder if I could support a VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM box set, I have ardently laid out the cash for the previous 5 DGM releases covering the THRAK material. Is there really any need for something other than a new set of songs from our favorite group? Where are you posters getting your hands on the "Outer Darkness" CD from the "Gates of Paradise" set?" My appetite is whetted for this one. I have said many times that I feel that Fripp's soundscapes are the perfect soundtrack to what I'm learning here at Luther Seminary, and "Gates" sounds eminently theological, or if you will, "Theolyrical". The "Outer Darkness" (where there is a great weeping and gnashing of teeth), sounds like it paints demonic, frightening, hellish colors, something Fripp has been famed for since the '69 Crimson. This disc is not yet listed with the US Possible guys yet, but they've got my money. Eric J. Thorson St. Paul, MN. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 04:20:18 UT From: "Jonathan Korein" Subject: "Take It Back" The Pink Floyd song "Take It Back" uses an E-bow on an acoustic guitar. Gilmour said so in a guitar magazine interview. It makes a very beautiful sound. To the man who wrote a message in all capitals: 1. Don't write in all caps next time. Very rude. 2. You complain that he was on when you arrived, but as others have said, this is intentional, and also, it is generally a bad idea to go to a show for the opener. A show is ran by the venue and the headliner, and you cannot rely on the opener's performance to be of appropriate length or on schedule. Once when I went to see Morphine the opener was billed as "The Low Road", who I was looking forward to, and ended up being a band called Gimme, who bore no resemblance. No Low Road. As for VROOOM x4, why doesn't DGM, instead of making a 4-CD set comprised of 2 80s CDs and 2 90s CDs, just release an 80s double CD? There is currently no live 80s CDs available, so a double could fill that void without overfilling like Epitaph did with its 4. A 90s CD is not really necessary... B'Boom fills that need. Maybe A CD containing minimized overlap with B'Boom... that way we could enjoy Thela, ToaPP, Elevens, Prism, 21stCSM, Neurotica, and Waiting Man at home. ------------------------------ From: Eric Henry Wynter Best Subject: re KC unplugged Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:51:28 +1000 Greetings, Regarding the 'unplugged' debate: I tend to agree with those that think a totally unplugged KC would be difficult. However, I do think that the current Crimson might benefit from the addition of more acoustic colouration. Both Adrian and Robert are excellent acoustic guitarists and would not disappoint. 'Thrak', despite the quality of the songs and music, left me feeling uninvolved. I am guessing here, but I think it could be the lack of acoustic colouration. I think Trey Gunn's playing attempts to fill this space, but is overpowered by the other instruments. A word on the idea of a KC1 reunion album. Some criticism has imagined that it would be some kind of nostalgia album. I doubt it. I think we have enough evidence of the musical integrity by Fripp and McDonald and Giles to not let this happen; and Peter Sinfield is no longer writing hippy-trippy lyrics! Personally, listening to both Red and ITCOTCK, I think that the band is the less for Ian McDonald's absence. Yours faithfully, Eric Best. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:59:21 -0700 (PDT) From: J Young Subject: I'm a dumb ass and I listen to Tortoise I napped off while typing and, in the course of two sentences, attributed "roundabout" to a couple of albums. we all know it's on _days of future passed_ by the Vanilla Fudge. Please, forgive me. Tortoise is a motherfucker. John McIntyre is an incredible drummer who plays with several bands from Chicago, including The Sea & Cake and Tortoise. Tortoise's last album is _millions now living will never die_. It is the best thing they've done. Instrumental music heavy with a lush keyboard sound and McIntyre's right hand of bruford style of drumming. I love this album. I rather like the Sea and cake, too. It's more pop/song oriented, but very satisfying. I thought pet sounds referred to the beach boys album. I don't know diddly about Jessamine. shamus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:46:55 +0200 From: Alex Brugger Organization: Physics Department, University of Erlangen, Germany Subject: pink floyd and KC Hi everybody, Les, I really enjoyed your comment in ET 392 on early Pink Floyd and what David Gilmore said about Echoes... I saw them starting their show with Astronomy Domine but I'm afraid to say that although it was by far the best song of the gig (together with One of these Days) it just doesn't sound so well anymore, does it? if you compare the recent live versions of these songs with older renditions you just have to admit that they are so bloody much weaker these days, aren't they? when I came home after that gig I put the "Live at Pompeii" video on, watched 'one of these days' and right after that I watched the same song on the "Delicate Sound of Thunder" tape. if you do that you'll know what I'm talking about - the enthusiasm is just gone and probably lost forever. I now do consider the cash I paid for my pink floyd ticket the biggest waste of money ever and here is where IMHO the big difference to KC comes in. when they play LTIA2 or Red or Schizoid Man now it definitely is at least as powerful as it has always been, it's just simple pleasure watching and listening to that stuff. When Adrian sings about "poets starving, children bleed" etc it just doesn't sound obsolete, does it? and I'm absolutely sure I'd never consider my admission fee wasted if I went to a KC gig now and *had* ( :-))) ) to listen to purple jesters pulling strings and smiling as the puppets dance, Prince Rupert awaking or (could I leave that one out?) old friend charity's cruel twisted smile. I'm afraid to say that with Pink Floyd the enthusiasm of the "old days" is just gone, IMHO, whereas KC are as fresh and powerful as they've always been - and that's the big difference between those two bands. of course that's also why we all still listen to KC and go to their concerts whereas Pink Floyd, at least for me, have become simply *boring*. sorry for the length! Alex ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____________________ Alex Brugger ____________________ alex dot brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de http://www.physik.uni-erlangen.de/hi/ab/ab1.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:49:58 +0200 From: Alex Brugger Organization: Physics Department, University of Erlangen, Germany Subject: Fallen Angels Hi ETers, has anyone out there seen the brilliant film "Fallen Angels" (Hong Kong 1995 - or was it 96?)??? isn't it a shame that this song has not been included in the soundtrack? it would fit so well into that film, wouldn't it..... just thought it's worth mentioning... best, Alex ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____________________ Alex Brugger ____________________ alex dot brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de http://www.physik.uni-erlangen.de/hi/ab/ab1.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: mmiller at pop3 dot wt dot net Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:53:35 +0000 Subject: Cancelled G3 shows. Here in Houston, the G3 show scheduled for July 11 was cancelled a couple days ago. There was no explanation announced. Does anybody know what happened and whether or not there might be "make-up" concert at a later date? I was looking forward to it. Oh well. Matt Miller 1606 Regal Blue Court Fresno, TX 77545-9521 (281) 431-4115 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:44:02 -0400 (EDT) From: SteveM at pluto dot njcc dot com Subject: Bozzio Levin Stevens review For anyone who may be interested, there is a review of the new BLS disc, Black Light Syndrome, in the new issue of Cosmik Debris (http://www.cosmik.com/cosmikdebris) Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:25:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Goslice at aol dot com Subject: Fripp and G3 in Tonowanda I saw the G3 tour "with Special Guest, Robert Fripp" at a theatre in the round type venue called Melody Fair within North Tonowanda's Wurlitzer Park (a northern suburb of Buffalo, NY). I had been anxious to attend for weeks as the local fringe tabloid called it "the rock event of the summer". The show by all accounts started at 8PM. I arrived with a friend ten minutes before and sit right down as many in attendance quaffed their final beers. We sat down in horror to find that Fripp was already on stage and playing since 6:30. Robert was playing his self absorbed Soundscapes which was completely ignored by those who wandered in. Conversations hung over his guitar playing and laughter punctuated the steamy summer air (no air conditioning). At 8:15 he looked up at the petit crowd, shrugged his shoulders and walked off to light applause. I approached the sound pit and asked one of the roadies if that was it. He assured me that Bob would return with the other players and that it would be a long night. The other guitarists: Kenny Wayne Sheppard, Steven Vai and Joe Satriani were all interesting. KWS was similar to SRV, Hendrix and Lenny Kravitz all rolled into one. Steven Vai was shades of Aerosmith meets leatherette. The one who was highly original with some wicked guitar licks was Satriani. He also had a bass player that was good enough for a bass solo! I enjoyed him the most. Each of these individual programs took the audience late into the evening. The crowd was generally receptive to each of these guys, especially KWS whose music more or less catered to those who arrived on the many Harley Davidsons parked out front and for those who wore the ubiquitous Rab C. Nesbitt fishnet T-shirts . A tad unkind but true. The encore had everybody on stage. Robert did not participate in the first 3-4 classic blues/rock songs. He sat pathetically fiddling with his synthesizer setup and looked dejected. Robert was finally given the floor, (er stool, at the back of the stage) he played along and what he rendered was really nice. I can say that I've never heard him play blues/rock lead before, but he handled the 35-45 seconds of it with aplomb. Unfortunately the stage stopped rotating and I could not see any of his handi-work. In summary, I guess, Robert is/was trying to widen his appeal with another audience types but they are just not receptive to the sleepy sounds coming from his rack of processors and frankly, neither am I. I have purchased and listened to most of Robert's output in between KC layoffs and I was hoping to see Robert give me and the other players there a guitar lesson. He is still capable of it, isn't he? All in all, the evening was disappointing for this Fripp/KC fan and would recommend that similar fans pass on the opportunity to see Robert in this setting. ------------------------------ From: jmooney at bigyellow dot com Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:02:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Epitaph - Rolling Stone review - Tortoise, Jessamine and Pet In ET#394, MEHLMAN wrote: > RS says KC "anticipates the avant-prog [sic] romp of recent underground bands like Tortoise and Jessamine" and is "closer to the elegiac orchestral design of >Pet Sounds than trademark Yes or Genesis." >Who the hell are Tortoise Jessamine and Pet Sounds? "Pet Sounds" had better refer to the Beach Boys album of that name. A quick search of the 'net for "Jessamine" turns up various references to a poisonous plant, and this tid-bit: =========start quote ============= JESSAMINE THE LONG ARM OF COINCIDENCE (KRANKY, BOX 578743, CHICAGO, IL 60657) Jessamine is either the beginning or the endpoint of something in pop, but it's hard to tell which. The Long Arm of Coincidence feels like the maddening aftermath of 2001: A Space Odyssey if HAL was not a computer, but an over ambitious mixing board with self-animating moogs and archaic psychedelic effects patched into it, bent on composing themselves into burbling, squawking space rock. Oh, it's not that this in not human-sounding music, far from it; in fact, Jessamine's melodies are sometimes such delicate membranes of pitched human breath that the slightest breeze would fray them beyond recognition. The most fascinating thing is that Jessamine sounds like a martial arts contest between technology and human musical inspiration, the two engaged in both combat and a complex, mutually supporting dance taking place on physical, intellectual and spiritual planes. If that all sounds like a pile of high-falutin nonsense, then just take a listen: Jessamine intensifies the noodlings of Krautrockers like Can and Faust and fills the oxygen tanks of Pram's underwater pop with helium. ===========end quote================== A search for "Tortoise" turns up hundreds of references to reptiles and eyewear. Maybe someone else can be of some help. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:33:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Arthur Thomas Andrews Subject: Eddie Jobson On the topic of Eddie Jobson, rumor has it that he is being considered for the keyboard position in Yes. Rick Wakeman left the group a few months ago, due to differences with Jon Anderson. (who can blame him?) I think it would be interesting because of Jobson's ability to play both the keyboards and the violin. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arthur Andrews ata5d at virginia dot edu http://watt.seas.virginia.edu/~ata5d/art.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: jmooney at bigyellow dot com Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:04:28 -0400 Subject: ELP tour In ET#394, From: "Ott, John" wrote: >ELP is coming to Wolftrap (Vienna, VA) this summer, I'll go despite Greg's diminished voice, These three can still play a bit. Yeah, they're hitting Boston in early September. I may gamble the 20-odd bucks on a ticket. I caught them back in '93. Lake sounded like a donkey braying, but the boys could still play a lick or two. I hear they've resurrected the flying piano rig from '73; after reinforcing it, they're going to try to lift Greg this year, instead of a piano. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 14:08:40 -0400 From: Chris Mills Subject: Fripp: time to revise opinions of music biz? rf's commentary in the box sets and elsewhere is fun, educational and occasionally inspiring. add up the column-inches of invective directed at the mainstream music industry and you'd have a document longer than war and peace. most of that stuff was written before DGM and, presumably, without the benefit of hard experience borne of actually running a record company. so, rf: now that you've been in the driver's seat for awhile, you've had the chance to do things your way while seeing the music biz from the biz perspective. are you inclined to revise any of your opinions? have you discovered that some music biz evils, onerous though they may be, are necessary evils that even a well-intended, artistically inclined bizness person cannot do without/dispense with -- a discovery that might cause you to re-evaluate the way other record biz people have conducted themselves viz a viz kc and rf? in my experience, as a newsperson, a lot of what seemed like money-grubbing small-mindedness on the part of news management became more understandable when i became part of management and found myself responsible for both profits to the company as well as paychecks for the staff. just wondering. cm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 14:22:29 -0500 From: "Chris 'Coz' Costello" Subject: Devotees on HORDE tour (possibly w/Trey Gunn, Vernon Reid) Just picked this up from "Wall of Sound," and thought the ET crowd might find it interesting. With these guys, Primus, Beck, Ben Folds Five, and Medeski, Martin, & Wood (at least on some dates), this is looking like a heck of a tour. Even better if you like Neil Young. As you may notice, the article doesn't know if any of the mentioned musicians will be touring. Has anyone heard this album? from http://www.wallofsound.com/news/stories/1714index.html "Sources close to the HORDE tour have told Wall of Sound that there's another band joining the already impressive lineup. The specific dates haven't been nailed down, but the Devotees, whose debut album, Gimmie Gimmie, was released earlier this year with an all-star lineup, will likely be joining Neil Young, Beck, and the rest on the traveling summer festival for several shows. Although not much information about the group is available, the Devotees are based around Philadelphia singer-songwriter Solomon Deniro. But it's the backup band that's most impressive--John Popper of Blues Traveler on harmonica, Vernon Reid (formerly of Living Colour) on guitar, Trey Gunn of King Crimson on Chapman stick, and Bernie Worrell of Parliament-Funkadelic on keyboards. It's not known exactly what the Devotee lineup will be for HORDE, but if even half those guys show up, it's sure to be an impressive show." Later, COZ -- +-- | Chris 'Coz' Costello / "Hipness is transient. You have to | http://www.tezcat.com/~coz / change in order to be continually | coz at tezcat dot com / hip." - Vinnie Colaiuta | ---+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:31:59 -0600 From: francisco mares espinal Hello, I am "Manolo", I am a great fan of King Crimson and Van der Graaf Generator (I like Nasstasja Kinski too). I went to all the concerts in Mexico City, and I was shouting like a mad! I went with two friends of mine, Andy Panda "the fornicator" and Guillermo Ferrer (the more intelligent of the three). We are very, very poor men, so, why don't you send us all the King Crimson and Robert Fripp's compacts? My adress Divisi=F3n del Norte 3117-303 Colonia Rosedal C=F3digo Postal 04330 M=E9xico D.F. f94013 at sncdc dot mixcoac dot upmx dot mx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 97 15:04:02 -0700 From: Christopher Jepson Subject: Prince Rupert's complaint Regarding Orn Orrason's post: I had been meaning to bring up the question of this fart as the potential inspiration for the piece "That Which Passes, Passes Like Clouds," but perhaps we should avoid any long-winded discussion. -- CJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:58:47 -0400 From: Kurt Starsinic Subject: Re: Rolling Stone review At 01:42 PM 7/5/97 -0400, you wrote: > It's official: KC's "Epitaph" pulled down 3.5 stars (out of 5) in >Rolling Stone #764. A couple questions: RS says KC "anticipates the >avant-prog [sic] romp of recent underground bands like Tortoise and >Jessamine" and is "closer to the elegiac orchestral design of Pet Sounds >than trademark Yes or Genesis." > Who the hell are Tortoise Jessamine and Pet Sounds? Can someone >please fill in the gaps? Pet Sounds isn't a "who;" it's a Beach Boys album, considered by many to be a watershed in popular music. Peace, *---- Kurt Starsinic (kstar at isinet dot com) ------ Senior Programmer/Analyst ---* | Institute for Scientific Information (215) 386-0100 x1108 | | "I have nothing to say and I am saying it and that is poetry" - John Cage | *------------------------ http://www.isinet.com ------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 17:35:12 -0700 From: jcsvy at cts dot com Subject: aspic meaning re: the post by Neal Brown....'asp' is indeed a snake. However, 'aspic,' is a jellied dish. (e.g. tomato aspic) sort of like a savory jell-o. Thus, the tongues of larks, preserved in a delicious gelatin aspic. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:44:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Subject: Happy Family The new album Happy Family: Toscco is absolutely great, but what does toscco mean? also, if anyone could offer their opinions of their previous album it would be appreciated. -Rob ------------------------------ From: "Carlos Henrique Moller" Subject: pissing on THRAK ? Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 21:55:03 -0300 hi all ETs over the world ! humm... on last issue we had this bs below: >From: "mmason" >And Adrian's is singing half-assed. Ohh! My major complaint- the song >THRAK. Vrooom version- not together. B'boom- just like Vrooom. THRAK >version- seems fake. Like they are trying to rock, but not giving >their all to it. Ahhhhh but the Version of THRAK on THRaKaTTaK!!!!!! >WOW!!! Its what I always imagined that song could be!! I think that KC >should have done a lot more gigs befor the recorded a studio album an >released a live record. i just have one thing to tell: can YOU do it any better, my pal ? cause if you do, then you must be GOD ! i have an idea: why don't you go listen to Celine Dion (Sinfield is there, you know !). maybe you find something that fits you ! and KC rules after all... despite of all the bullshit :-) carlos moller brazil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 18:37:20 -0700 From: jcsvy at cts dot com Subject: USA, et al 1. RE: USA - USA was not taped at Providence. It was taped in Asbury Park (I believe in New Jersey). Check Eric Tamm's book on Robert Fripp...it's got lots of interesting info about all the albums (including Earthbound) 2. RE: Philip Glass. Not to make any enemies, but I find KC MUCH more interesting. Philip Glass' music is like King Crimson without the odd tonalities, the drama, or the passion. 3. RE: Good Yes albums. There aren't any. Every Yes album is drenched with goofy lyrics and overbearing keyboards. And what's up with that cape? I must say, I find it interesting how many KC fans also enjoy Yes, ELP, and other proggers. To my ears, KC (except for the pre-'73 stuff) sounds nothing like those guys. King Crimson has always had a lean economical use of sound, and no masturbatory soloing. Can you imagine Fripp playing his guitar with a set of knives? (just what was the point of Emerson's knife-use anyway? ooooh...I'm SO impressed) For anyone interested in GOOD music (and since you're all KC fans, you must be)...forget prog-rock. Crimson has lived to see greatness by ABANDONING that silly stuff. Is there really any relationship between a tune like Thela Hun Ginjeet and Exiles? Except for Mr. RF on guitar, I can't hear a similarity. What always made King Crimson stand out in the 70's was their extensive use of GROUP improvisation (not like Yes with Rick Wakeman's wank-o-rama approach). This put them closer to jazz-fusion groups than to prog-rock. What has enabled Crimson to survive beyond the 70's is growth beyond the prog-rock world....notice how they still don't play stuff like Cat Food, or Exiles in their current lineup? The only older compositions I heard on their last tour were from the 73-74 era or later. The best music is borne form improvisation (IMHO). Listen to Miles Davis. (Bitches Brew is a good starting point for those still into Prog. rock) Listen to Wes Montgomery (one of the best guitarists ever). And throw out those Yes albums. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 19:06:23 -0700 From: jcsvy at cts dot com Subject: miscellaneous First, in response to Mehlmans question...Pet Sounds is the last great Beach Boys album, brimming with Brian Wilsons arranging genius. Anyone who hasn't heard it is missing out big time. One of the best albums of all time. Don't let its Beach Boys pedigree fool you. There's no "Surfin USA" here. Brian Wilson (visionary of the Beach Boys) heard the Beatles album "Rubber Soul" and thought he had to top it. He made "Pet Sounds" (while his other bandmembers complained....they wanted more "Surfin USA"). Paul McCartney heard "Pet Sounds" and thought he had to top that. So the Beatles did "Sgt. Pepper." "Pet Sounds" is really good stuff. Unrelated but, does anyone else hope the new KC album will be better than THRAK? Don't get me wrong, I like THRAK....but I saw KC a few months after the release of B'Boom, and THRAK doesn't do this band justice at all. (neither did B'Boom either) Hopefully, now that they've been playing together a while the new album will peel paint at 1000 feet...like the live band did ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 22:17:18 From: drj_saro Subject: RE: Elephant Talk Digest #394 >(Speaking of which, are all you Frippophiles aware that Fripp >played with Peter Hammill [first solo album] and Van Der Graaf Generator >[PAWN HEARTS, if memory serves]?) > Fripp plays on two VdGG albums... on "H to He" (Hydrogen to Helium - a.k.a. fusion, the stuff that makes the sun work, _not_ jazz-rock) he adds a stunning electric guitar to 'The Emperor in his War-Room' on "Pawn Hearts" he plays to excellent effect on the side long epic 'A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers'(and there may be other bits scatterred in the two other songs as well, but i can't definitively say that for sure.) on the pH solo album "Fools Mate" as "Bob"Fripp, he adds electric guitar on the tracks (6 out of 12) Imperial Zeppelin, Sunshine, Child, Viking, the Birds, I Once Wrote Some Poems. this involvement led to pH's vocals on "Exposure", and perhaps to the distribution of pH's Fie! record label by DGM. perhaps we could lobby for a place for pH on this summer's KC tour in the US (he hasn't been here since 1990, we are _long_ overdue!) *------------------------------------- Name: Julius J. SAROKA E-mail: drj_saro Date: 7/7/97 Time: 10:17:19 PM This message was sent by Chameleon (in the Shadow of the Night) *------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: oracular at webtv dot net (David Denis) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:18:44 -0400 Subject: Catfood/Oracular Catfood will be playing at the Sailfest in New london CT on Sat july 12th from 2pm to 3pm and Oracular from 7pm to 8pm. Free concert !!! Both are Crimson inspired bands.Fireworks over the Thames river at night. ------------------------------ From: hockstaff at theonramp dot net (Job Hockstaff) Subject: trey gunn's other albums Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:09:33 -0700 Hello Toby. First of all, kudos on the well developed and regularly accessed web site. Ever since my first concert, Los Angeles Wiltern Theater July 1st, their last North American appearance for moving over seas, I have been deeply engrossed in the works and related information on these fine musicians. One area of frustration, however, has been trying to locate Trey Gunn's Punishment Farm/Raw Power/ and various other solo albums. Could you offer any advise/assistance in tracking down these albums or the distributor? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Job Hockstaff Phoenix, AZ hockstaff at theonramp dot net ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #396 ********************************