Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #395 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 395 Sunday, 6 July 1997 Today's Topics: USA vs.Great Deceiver, who is the woman ? Re: Elephant Talk Digest #391 Early Floyd and Crimson, Too Old To Play? Epitaph!!!! Fripp speaks Re: Guitar Synths Tony Levin's Cave recording Re: Larks' Tongues interpretation Silly pic of Fripp Book Review: "Rocking the Classics" Bozzio, Levin, Stevens Preview Guitar synths Young Persons Guide to KC An end to a boring subject(s). Re: Glass Glass influences, shattered? Re: Elephant Talk Digest #394 Re: Pet Sounds (ET#394) Young whippersnappers Re: Rolling Stone Review Female Fans and Fripp Lyrics Pet Sounds, Sleepless single, pissed at THRAK 1/2 an answer... Crimson Kin Late in the evening... ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- ********************************************************************** TOP TIP: Send your posts *only* to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. Posts sent to any other address will never make it to ET! ********************************************************************** Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 01:02:15 +0100 From: Orn Orrason Organization: Systems Engineering Laboratory Subject: USA vs.Great Deceiver, who is the woman ? Dear ET readers On USA Schiizodic man 3:42 you can hear a young woman fart = loud. This sounds like Wettons bass overdistorted but it ain=B4t. Comparing this to disc 3 on TGD you can hear that this young woman is missing. As this is the only difference between the two performances apart from different sound quality I would say "Go out and buy USA". You will be dissapointed though as Fripp is to asahamed of this fart and has not re-released = the recording. David Singleton has now downloaded a Ver5.1a of the digital signal processor rack system software which has a built-in "fart removal virtual driver" and I understand after having phoned DGM yesterday that they are working hard in order to remove this annoying noise. But who is this woman ? -- = ORN ORRASON = University of Iceland = Systems Engineering Lab = VR III, Hjardarhagi 2-6,107 Reykjavik = Tel 525 4699 (UI), (2nd) 589 9111 (PTI) = Fax 525 4937 (UI) (Prefix for Iceland =3D +354) E-mail: ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is: Web: http://smyrill.kerfi.hi.is/~ossi ------------------------------ From: robert anderson in tc Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #391 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 97 20:25:31 CDT hi there to any body for a long tim.e. but in short fripp's bands should play in new orleans mor often. the birth place of jazz and modern music. thank you robert adams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:07:20 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: Early Floyd and Crimson, Too Old To Play? Organization: Elephant Talk Les B. Labbauf wrote... > However on that very tour Mr. Gilmore and mates opened up with > "Astronome Domine" and sang: > > Lime and Limpid Green, A Second Scene > A Fight Between The Blue You Once Knew According to Gilmour, this song was as much for Barrett's (fiscal) benefit as it was for the fans. Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland : Fax 0131-653-6124 crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk : ET Administrator : Columnated Ruins Domino ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:12:34 -0400 (EDT) From: WrongWayCM at aol dot com Subject: Epitaph!!!! It just came in the mail. . . got it on right now. . . what it lacks in sound quality it makes up for in performance and packaging (the best I've ever seen!) MARS is so powerful and frightening - I love it! enough! -Colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:33:28 -0400 (EDT) From: WrongWayCM at aol dot com Subject: Fripp speaks Just to clear this up - Fripp is the one who speaks to the crowd on the Great Deceiver, parts of Epitaph (sometimes it's Lake), Rodney Todey, and the end of Intergalactic Boogie Express (very humorous by the way). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 15:02:41 -0400 From: future perfect Subject: Re: Guitar Synths > This suggests two questions. > > 1) Why special pickups? Anything different about them than the usual > pickups? It sounds like one pickup/output per string...a difference...the > only? > > 2) Can you run other signals into the freq analyzer? Obviously, a vibrating > string is the simplest waveform, which makes synth guitars/banjos/sticks the > perfect form. But can the system handle something like voice, flute, or > french horn? > As a midi guitarist myself, let me try and answer..the pickup system (the standard of the industry is the Roland GK-2A) just separates the outputs of each string, so each string has its own output. This way, the midi converter can better 'hear' each note played...the midi converter is actually 6 midi converters, 1 for each string. The pickup itself is not the midi converter, its just a magnetic pickup, albeit a hexophonic one. With my midi converter, the Roland GI-10, you can plug in a mike to 'midify' monophonic sound sources, like the voice, flute, or french horn. Check out my guitar synth experiments at my web page (BTW, Our first CD has just been released..yippie!!!) Dave ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 'If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably get there.' - Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:35:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Stew Benedict Subject: Tony Levin's Cave recording I just got the CD and the tape. Both are $15 each. I love it. Along the lines of Passion, or World Diary. Some nice shots of Tony's Stick technique on the video. The sound is a little weak on the video, but it's interesting none the less. Stew Benedict Teak Chapman Stick #926 ------------------------------ From: "Marc Mehlman" Subject: Re: Larks' Tongues interpretation Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:18:23 -0500 ---------- Neal Brown >a lark, of course is a bird, and a > synonym for "whim," and an "asp" is a snake. Seems to me that the idea > is of larks' tongues (tongue being a synonym for language, and larks > being songbirds) being translated to asps (the word "aspic" sounds like > the name of a language. I thought you were crazy at first because I have always known aspic to mean a type of jello mold stuffed with various fillings. (Larks' tongues sound rather delicious.) But I looked the word up, and behold a second archaic meaning for asp. An asp, of course, is an Egyptian cobra, the same species Cleopatra used to commit suicide. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:55:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mattias Ribbing Subject: Silly pic of Fripp Hi, Check out www.satriani.com for a really silly picture of Robert sitting with his Les Paul in the bathroom :) It=B4s the last page of the three with pics= on. Mattias Ribbing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:17:42 -0400 (EDT) From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Book Review: "Rocking the Classics" Book Review: "Rocking the Classics - English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture" by Edward Macan (Oxford University Press, 1997, ISBN 0-19-509887-9) - $17.95 A few months ago a few ETers made mention of this book and sparked the now infamous prog/punk thread. Curious, I took advantage of another book purchase at Amazon.com to also buy this book, and over the course of many lunches, digested its contents. I thought that a number of ETers would be interested in a review of sorts, as little of substance was said of it in ET. Edward Macan's book reads like a thesis on progressive rock, its place in modern music history, and relationship with the counterculture it grew out of. He uses his musicology background and a good sense of cultural theory to very thoroughly investigate and explain the many facets that shaped progressive rock, including in depth chapters on the music, the visuals, and the lyrics in progressive rock. To illustrate things further one chapter looks at four specific pieces of music: ELP's "Tarkus", Yes's "Close to the Edge", Genesis's "Firth of Fifth", and Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here". Macan's focus is the English prog rock scene, although he does make mention of both North American and Continental European bands in his discussions of styles and social relevancy. ETer's will likely find Macan's book to be King Crimson and Robert Fripp friendly, in relation to both the number of references made, and the nature of the critiques he makes. "Rocking the Classics" also touches on practically all of the related styles of music and bands that ETers often enjoy discussing and listening to, from jazz-rock fusion, English folk-rock and heavy metal, to minimalism and avant-garde electronic music. In a sense, I discovered much about what makes me enjoy many of the bands I listen to. The book also delves into prog rock's standing in critical circles and touches a little on more recent progressive rock output, even though the majority of the book concentrates on the 70's. Macan compliments things with an appendix containing a very nice discography and personnel listings for most of the bands he has written about. As a non-musician I often felt challenged to follow many of Macan's music analyses, however I surmise musicians will appreciate such depth. I also found Macan's style quite dry at times, but appreciated that this was not a book written by a typical rock critic. Some may argue that Macan elevates progressive rock to a level akin to the pomposity that befell the music in the late 70's, but I think that would be an unfair assessment. Macan's arguments may be somewhat pedantic at times, but I found them sound and well presented. I think that anyone interested in discovering more about progressive rock will find this an excellent guide, and would recommend the book to all ETers. I have seen the book at only a few book stores, so I would suggest that one purchase it online, like I did. It shouldn't be too hard to find. Dan Kirkdorffer ET Web ------------------------------ From: "Doug Liles" Subject: Bozzio, Levin, Stevens Preview Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:20:41 -0500 Greetings my fellow ETers If you just cant wait to here the new CD from the Black Light Syndrome just point your browser at http://www.nextlevel.com/bls.htm You can preview every note on Real Audio! "I like it!" - Adrian Belew Doug Liles dug at multipro dot com ------------------------------ From: "Paolo Valladolid" Subject: Guitar synths Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 00:05:44 -0700 > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:02:54 -0400 (EDT) > From: Nameless to the Goddess > Subject: Guitar synths > > >> Okay, say Ade hits an A (A is for Ade). How does the synth understand > >> it is an A? What does it look for? > > >The basic idea is to read the frequency of each guitar string. An easy way > >to do this is to read the number of times the guitar string's waveform > >crosses the zero line in a certain time interval. The tricky part is in > >filtering out the noise introduced by the pick and other harmonics. > > This suggests two questions. > > 1) Why special pickups? Anything different about them than the usual > pickups? It sounds like one pickup/output per string...a difference...the > only? Yes, it's much easier to read the frequency of each guitar string when you have a separate pickup reading each string instead of one pickup reading all six at the same time. > 2) Can you run other signals into the freq analyzer? Obviously, a vibrating > string is the simplest waveform, which makes synth guitars/banjos/sticks the > perfect form. But can the system handle something like voice, flute, or > french horn? The Roland GI-10 guitar-MIDI converter has a microphone input. It will attempt to read anything that comes into that input and convert it to MIDI information. Does it work? Yes, though not without occasional glitching. Paolo Valladolid Digital Guitar Digest: Covering Music Technology for Stringed Instruments http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html ------------------------------ From: CKTN98A at prodigy dot com (MR MARK L HOGAN) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 07:43:28, -0500 Subject: Young Persons Guide to KC Fellow ETers: Greetings, I am trying to locate a CD copy of the Island release "A Young Persons Guide To KC", any help / ideas on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Many thanx. M.L. Hogan "Starless in Providence" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:11:48 -0400 (EDT) From: JRHARTLEY1 at aol dot com Subject: An end to a boring subject(s). >From Simon of the South (UK) JRHARTLEY1 at aol dot com 5July This is the last thing I hope will be said about an incredibly dull topic. 1)USA was recorded in the ''Nags Head' public house in Chalk Farm, North London and was a concert in aid of Robinsons Marmalade who were a bit short of cash at the time. 2) The opening sound at the begining of the Thrak album is niether Mellotron or Guitar. It is a sound made by the 'elctric carpet', (a house hold instrument that never really got the credit it deserved.) 3) 'Aspic' is mearly a clear jelly in which food(s) is prepeared and preserved. Rather like Jellied eels. (This last one is not a joke.) OK, lets talk about something different, like, ...... I know... Who saw Bob and the league gents back in 1980 and what was it like? Simon of the South(UK) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:49:45 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Glass >From: "Jonathan Korein" > >I don't know much about Phillip Glass, but I know that he composed >Three-hour pieces and stuff. Naturally this lead to him being accused of >being pompous: see King Missile's song "Glass", in which the drummer >noodles around on the piano while the singer yells "Hey! I'm Phillip Glass! >Look at me! Hey Einstein! Get off the beach!" Pompous? :) Here's a good representation of the difference between (arguably) the two most important minimalists, Philip Glass and Steve Reich. Check a promotional photo of Reich. He'll be in a button-up shirt with the sleeves rolled up, probably slouched in a chair smiling at the photographer. Now check one of Glass. Invariably, Glass has his oh-so-serious "artiste" face on, like he's posing for a bust or a postage stamp. He's also fond of pulling the old index-finger-pressed-pensively-to-the-temple bit. So guess whose music I like more? ;) >From: Arthur Thomas Andrews >Subject: About Philip Glass > >I write this objectively, because I find his music rather tedious. You and me both. I did like the Koyaanisqatsi and Mishima soundtracks, though. >From: kholmhud at nwu dot edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) > >Glass also produced (and plays keyboards on) two early-80s albums by the >NYC new-wave band Polyrock--out of print but occasionally found for cheap >in used-record bins. This band's tight, modular style is also not unlike >80s Crimso, but more keyboard-dominated and the lead singer sounds >uncomfortably like Ric Ocasek of the Cars! Yeah, those records are kinda cute -- I have 'em. Glass also did some pop work with Paul Simon on Hearts & Bones and with Irish pop artist Pierce Turner. Eb ------------------------------ From: "David G. Dixon" Subject: Glass influences, shattered? Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 13:09:03 -0700 Concerning the debate over the Philip Glass influence on KC's 80's guitar-weave style: I'd have thought that this style had more to do with Balinese gamelan music than with minimalism! But, then again, what the hell do I know? Dave Dixon Vancouver, BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 22:07:10 +0100 From: Neil Talbott Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #394 In message , Elephant Talk writes >Mike played with Zappa durring the fated '88 tour - Zappa's last rock group >tour -which unfortunately only made it through W. Euorpe and East Coast & Mid >West USA before disbanding prior to any west coast shows. Mike Keneally was the main guitarist on the Zappa's Universe tribute concerts at the New York Ritz theatre in 1991 to celebrate 25 years of Zappa's music (Zappa was at the time too ill to attend). Steve Vai and Dweezil Zappa duetted at the same concerts, but quite Frankly it was Mike (with his green strat) who stole the show - he's brilliant but under-rated. -- Neil Talbott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 19:15:37 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Organization: Cognosys Corp. Subject: Re: Pet Sounds (ET#394) MEHLMAN on Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:05:57 -0500 (CDT) wrote: > Who the hell are Tortoise Jessamine and Pet Sounds? Can someone > please fill in the gaps? Can't help you with the first two ... but Pet Sounds is a classic Beach Boys album, produced around the same period as the Beatles' Sergeant Peppers' Lonely Hearts Club Band. While both albums represented a huge departure from their progenitors' previous work, the former had almost the opposite effect for popular interest in the band as the latter. Pet Sounds is very much worth a listen, esp. if you think you know what the Beach Boys "sounds like," or if you're a fan of Zappa. Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 16:47:54 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Young whippersnappers >From: MEHLMAN >Subject: Rolling Stone review > > It's official: KC's "Epitaph" pulled down 3.5 stars (out of 5) in >Rolling Stone #764. A couple questions: RS says KC "anticipates the >avant-prog [sic] romp of recent underground bands like Tortoise and >Jessamine" and is "closer to the elegiac orchestral design of Pet Sounds >than trademark Yes or Genesis." > Who the hell are Tortoise, Jessamine and Pet Sounds? Can someone >please fill in the gaps? I don't know Tortoise and Jessamine particularly well, but I know that Tortoise is an instrumental band from Chicago who's often lumped with the so-called "post-rock" movement (perhaps the niche where prog and punk finally meet?). I believe that Tortoise has three albums out, all released on the indie Thrill Jockey label. I don't personally own anything by the band, but I've been meaning to buy a disc or two. Meanwhile, Jessamine is sort of a groove-rock band based in Seattle who gets compared to Stereolab a lot. The Stereolab comparison is so pervasive, it makes me a bit suspicious of the band's originality/worth. Haven't heard much at all by this group, though. By the way, Stereolab is amazing, and the new album is done and due out in a couple of months. As for Pet Sounds, I hope you're kidding. If not, this is the worst example of proghead myopia I've heard yet. >From: J Young > >My Inter-Crimson fix will be had on July 8th, when Primus' _the Brown >album_ comes out. Initial listens (at Tower, where they have a promo >copy) are promising. I was disappointed with the last two Primus albums, >but really liked Les' solo _Highball with the devil_. Hmm. I liked Tales From the Punchbowl, but think that Highball With the Devil and the upcoming Brown Album are pretty damn redundant. >Fans of 69 era King Crimson might get a kick out of the new Ween album, >the Mollusk. The brothers Ween really wallow in that late 60s to early >70s sound. They don't make fun of specific songs, but slap together all >the cornball elements from that era of music into wholly new songs. Check >out the track "Buckingham Green." I don't think the boys were trying to >make fun of KC (or any of those bands) but at times I got the feeling that >Gener had Greg Lake in mind while he was singing. Almost everything by Ween is great. I was mildly disappointed with The Mollusk (just not weird enough!), but all the Ween albums are worth having, especially Chocolate & Cheese (if you're a Residents fan, buy this disc!). Actually, if you're a Residents fan, you oughta buy the whole Ween catalog (six albums). Regarding Philip Glass (HOPEFULLY a killed subject very soon, or at least on the repetitive "introductory" level): I too hear a lot more of Steve Reich than Glass in KC's music. Rhythmically, it's not that wide a gap between Reich's Drumming album and Discipline/Beat.... Eb (Recent recommendations, in no order: Ben Folds Five, That Dog, Yo La Tengo, Pete Ham, Portastatic, the Folk Implosion, Byrds/Hendrix reissues, Supergrass, Bis, David Byrne, Swell) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:02:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Caywood Subject: Re: Rolling Stone Review > Who the hell are Tortoise Jessamine and Pet Sounds? Can someone >please fill in the gaps? Tortoise is an ambient-ish band from Chicago, which has had its name bandied around a good deal, as a mellow electronica band. Their songs seem like extended, relaxed jams, vaguely reminiscent of proto-crimson. However, it's probably more likely that the critic had just listened to them before writing the review. Jessamine, a distinct band, I know nothing about. Anyone? Pet Sounds is Brian Wilson's concept album, done with the Beach Boys, which is widely considered to be a masterpiece. ------------------ Matt Caywood caywood at ai dot sri dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 18:44:57 -0600 From: William Jacobson Subject: Female Fans and Fripp Lyrics On the subject of women liking Crimso and progrock, in the '70s my wife and I met quite a few who became friends, in ticket lines for Genesis. At a Peter Gabriel concert (in support of PG II or III, I'm not sure) in a concert hall in Long Beach, California, this one "dude" asked our friend Ellen if she really liked this kind of music. "You like progressive music, like Styx and Kansas?" "No," she sharply replied, "like Peter Gabriel, Robert Fripp and Eno." ... ... ... ... ... ... In et 382, FISHBOY wrote=20 < b) Did Fripp write the lyrics to "Drop In"? It wasn't Sinfield because the < song is credited to Fripp, Lake, McDonald, Giles. And after the < performance on Disc 4, someone (I guess Lake, but it's hard to tell) says < "That was a number called Why Don't You Just Drop In. It was written by < Fripp, our guitarist." I thought it was interesting if this was a rare=20 < example of lyrics penned by Fripp. Robert Fripp penned a few sets of lyrics, that I know of, as follows: >From RF=92s pre-crimso days, _The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp_ featured two Fripp songs with lyrics; Little Children and Erudite Eyes. Also, 1981=92s =93Minor Man=94 from _The League of Gentlemen_ has Dani= elle Dax of the Lemon Kittens emoting some Fripp words. This track, along with Indiscreet I, II & III, Pareto Optimum I & II and Ochre did not make it onto Mr. Fripp=92s 1985 compilation, _The League of Gentlemen/God Save the King_. However, this album does include Under Heavy Manners, originally on 1979=92s _God Save the Queen_. UHM features a vocal by Absalm el Habib (David Byrne) with words by Robert Fripp. BTW, this track concluded with a voice shouting =93Stop!=94 Byrne keeps repeating t= he lyric, =93I am resplendent in divergence until RF=92s voice says, =93Continue.=94 This was an exercise Georges Gurdjieff would use with peo= ple to help them discover the intermediate positions of their bodies between the comfortable, usual ones. Thanks for the wonderful job, Toby, Bill Jacobson Music is the Best -- Frank Zappa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 97 23:39:26 -0600 From: "mmason" Subject: Pet Sounds, Sleepless single, pissed at THRAK yo to all out there Someone wrote: > It's official: KC's "Epitaph" pulled down 3.5 stars (out of 5) in > Rolling Stone #764. A couple questions: RS says KC "anticipates >the avant-prog [sic] romp of recent underground bands like Tortoise >and >Jessamine" and is "closer to the elegiac orchestral design of Pet >Sounds than trademark Yes or Genesis." > Who the hell are Tortoise Jessamine and Pet Sounds? Can >someone >please fill in the gaps? Pet Sounds is not a band, but an album by the Beach Boys. Not your normal fun in the sun cars and girls Beach Boys, but a musically sophisticated Beach Boys. Songs about deep emotions, not beaches and surfing. I never though of KC as sounding anything like that record, though I haven't heard the Epitaph boxed set. Its a really really great album, in the same vein as The Beatles "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". It supposedly inspired Paul McCartney to begin work on Sgt. Pepper. Really beautiful melodies, ohhh!! Such a great record. One of my all time favorites. Its up there with "Larks Tounges in Aspic" and Paul Simon's "Graceland" in my book. Highly Recommended Someone else wrote: > And the KC content: I was in Melbourne, Australia last week to see >two Peter Hammill solo shows (superb, BTW!), and while doing my >customary >trawl around the record stores managed to find a copy of the 12" >single of the dance mix of "Sleepless" -- the only KC release I >didn't have. >Only 8 bucks too! Also found a near-mint US pressing of PFM's "Cook" >live album, which I was also delighted to get. Wow! Only Eight bucks?! I got my copy of that single for $1.50 at Half Price Books. How much is it worth? I guess its a cool single, kinda stupid though. Also, is anyone else pissed off at THRAK (the album)? Everytime I listen to it, I like it less. It seems so...........slick? I can't really explain. Sounds....fake. Its sounds squished. The playing on the record really seem reserved and bored. I like the SOUND of Vrooom, but the guys just aren't together. THRAK sounds too slick and reserved, but Vroom is more laid back. Like dudes jamming in someones garage. And B'boom.....hmm. THe boys just aren't together here either. And Adrian's is singing half-assed. Ohh! My major complaint- the song THRAK. Vrooom version- not together. B'boom- just like Vrooom. THRAK version- seems fake. Like they are trying to rock, but not giving their all to it. Ahhhhh but the Version of THRAK on THRaKaTTaK!!!!!! WOW!!! Its what I always imagined that song could be!! I think that KC should have done a lot more gigs befor the recorded a studio album an released a live record. WEll...... Have fun folks ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jul 1997 22:10:34 -0700 From: "Carmen Breslin" Subject: 1/2 an answer... ...for the avant-prog [sic] romp In ET #394, I found the following: **Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:05:57 -0500 (CDT) From: MEHLMAN Subject: Rolling Stone review It's official: KC's "Epitaph" pulled down 3.5 stars (out of 5) in Rolling Stone #764. A couple questions: RS says KC "anticipates the avant-prog [sic] romp of recent underground bands like Tortoise and Jessamine" and is "closer to the elegiac orchestral design of Pet Sounds than trademark Yes or Genesis." Who the hell are Tortoise Jessamine and Pet Sounds? Can someone please fill in the gaps?** ...and I thing I can partially fill the gap. Pet Sounds was the reputed = "masterpiece" by Brian Wilson & the Beach Boys I believe. -- Tim Salmon, San Framcisco. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jul 1997 22:38:06 -0700 From: "Carmen Breslin" Subject: Crimson Kin Crimson Kin From: Tim Salmon < breslin at itsa dot ucsf dot edu> Look, I realize this is a King Crimson digest, but I have a question about an early unofficial Peter Gabriel recording called "Submerge" that I am sure someone out there has heard about. Have YOU? It's really not such an odd question, as it features two THRaK-eRS (Mr.'s Fripp & Levin). The album is comprised of shows from the Bottom Line in NYC & the Roxy in LA, 1978. There is a GREAT version of the LAMB which comes soon after the MYSTERY GUEST ("Mr. Robert Fripp") is introduced @ the Bottom Line. Why am I asking? Well, I had a cassette copy 'til yesterday, when it became the first (& with any luck, the LAST!) casualty of my ever-active 18 month old's love of good music. -- Tim Salmon, San Francisco. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 1997 09:04:18 -0700 From: "Carmen Breslin" Subject: Late in the evening... Late in the evening... From: Tim Salmon < breslin at itsa dot ucsf dot edu> In Elephant Talk Digest #393 I saw the following: ****Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 13:11:38 -0400 From: John Ambrose Subject: Tony Levin's bands Hi... I ecently heard that Tony Levin is putting out an album on the Magna Carta label with Steve Stevens (?) and Terry Bozzio. I have a question: In what bands has Tony Levin "officially" been a member? Obviously, he's an official member of King Crimson. He's done studio work with Peter Gabriel, Yes/ABWH, and he has a solo album out. But was he ever considered an actual member of any bands besides KC? Thanks! --John Ambrose johnny at cyberwar dot com**** Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe TL was considered a member = of Paul Simon's band in the "One Trick Pony" days. He was, at least, in = the motion picture. -- Tim Salmon, San Francisco. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #395 ********************************