Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #394 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 394 Thursday, 3 July 1997 Today's Topics: technology and role reversal (*plpl*) Rolling Stone review Women's Opinions of KC Affirmative Album Advice. VROOOM X 4 Requests Outer Darkness; Keneally; USA PFM, Yes, and a good KC score Philip Glass Tony levin projects, Eddie Jobson, ELP KC inspired by Philip Glass? Who is that guy? Frippertronics starting point? Philip Glass Glass, Minimalism, Chamberlain & Glueleg November Suite/DGM newsletter Porcupine Tree? Philip Glass? Who is that guy? Yes, Mind the Bullocks, it's Laundry 14/07/96 Purcell Room, South Bank, London: Bill Bruford & Pe Re: USA Schizoid Noises & Other Stuff Soundscapes Etc. Who is Philip Glass? USA Fripp query Soundscapes/Vai's 2nd G. ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:45:25 -0500 (EST) From: "M. S. AtKisson" Subject: technology and role reversal (*plpl*) Two quick comments: one: Georgie Korein sneers at the video for Belew's 'Big Electric Cat' for having cheesy 80's effects. The video was made in the very early 1980's, and pioneered the use of those kinds of techniques. At they time they were extremely new and cool; Heavy Metal magazine gave it Video of the Year for '80 or '81. Technology has moved tremendously fast. 'Big Electric Cat' was the groundbreaker that the later viedos imitated. two: For all you who like to tell us how your turned your wife/girlfriend onto KC, and how she liked the show when you took her to see it, let me just say that I turned my husband onto KC, and he liked the show when I took him to see it. Peg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:05:57 -0500 (CDT) From: MEHLMAN Subject: Rolling Stone review It's official: KC's "Epitaph" pulled down 3.5 stars (out of 5) in Rolling Stone #764. A couple questions: RS says KC "anticipates the avant-prog [sic] romp of recent underground bands like Tortoise and Jessamine" and is "closer to the elegiac orchestral design of Pet Sounds than trademark Yes or Genesis." Who the hell are Tortoise Jessamine and Pet Sounds? Can someone please fill in the gaps? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:06:35 -0700 From: ptozer at UVic dot CA (P. Tozer) Subject: Women's Opinions of KC Hi all, This is my first venture into the posting game, so patience, I beg you. Regarding this continuing discussion on who's wife likes KC and who's does not, or why don't women like prog? how can I find one that does...etc... Some questions: Why do you think that the fan base for "prog" in general is mostly male? Do you think that it is a question of socialization, or is this a bit too intellectual? (Considering the intellectual aspect of KC music, I feel that it might have some merit) Is it a question of stereotypes having some validity? Better yet: Why DO some women like this music? Surely this could be a more interesting venture... For those women who do, how did you get to this music? (Especially if you came to it independant of any male influences.) Just some things I have been thinking about since I began to receive ET... Comments and thoughts? TTFN, Patricia ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jul 1997 09:37:10 -0700 From: "Carmen Breslin" Subject: Affirmative Album Advice. >Clearly, the sound on the _Thrak_ version of "Dinosaur" is not a >mellotron but Belew's guitar synth. You can hear this trademark sound >all over...So where is the mellotron? >Well, this is where I hear it: a very short section of Dinosaur, which is >played by Fripp live, If you are referring to the brief intro to "Dinosaur", I believe the live = version is also Adrian. I don't recall from the actual live performances = I saw several months ago, but Adrian clearly played the mellotron-like = opening/closing parts on the Conan O'Brien show! >On a different note, I got a used Yes CD for $8 >called UNION. It features many different players from different >incarnations of Yes including Bruford and Levin as one rhythm section. >Unfortunately I only found like three good songs out of 14. Can anyone >recommend a good Yes album, I curious? -Colin OH GOD! Please, not UNION!!! No indeed, it is NOT a good example of the sort of music of which YES are capable. (In fact it was pretty roundly condemned by various members, such as Rick Wakeman &, to some degree, Steve Howe. In fact, when I saw Steve during his last solo tour, he mentioned that his most interesting contribution to that disc, "Masquerade," was done @ home and cost him about $8!) Now, to your question: there are several noteworthy & excellent YES albums. I would start with CLOSE TO THE EDGE. It even features Bilel B.! Then, of course, there are YESSONGS (on which Mr. Howe BLISTERS!), TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS ('nuff said!), RELAYER (which features some great guitar including, I believe, the first commercial use of guitar synth & Patrick Moraz on keys), & GOING FOR THE ONE. Those should keep you busy for a while. You might note that I have named albums from the "classic" period of the group and left out the entire decade of the eighties! This was intentional. -- Tim Salmon, San Francisco. ------------------------------ From: "philippe toudic" Subject: VROOOM X 4 Requests Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 12:56:51 PDT Dear ET Team: This is my first e-mail to anyone. Please forgive any breaches of etiquette from this Luddite. In ET #390 (I believe) there was a rumor concerning a new box set (VROOOM, VROOOM, VROOOM, VROOOM) to be composed of 1984 and 1995/96 live dates. I would like to share two wishes for VROOOM [X 4]: 1. Something from the 1981 tour. In particular, the two superb sets from Friday, Nov. 27, 1981 at the Old Waldorf in San Francisco. It was the day after the Thanksgiving holiday, which (Robert announced) the band had spent at Patricia's house. The Saturday performances were also extremely powerful, but Friday had a bit more subtlety and depth. The band played early versions of "Neurotica" (sans vocals) and "Sartori in Tangier." (BTW, there was a post some time back from a fellow Bay Area Crimhead who expressed surprise that no one went to all 4 Old Waldorf shows. I did, as did several of my friends. I sat at Fripp's feet for the early sets and further back for the late ones.) 2. The Saturday, June 24, 1995 performance at the Warfield Theatre, also in San Francisco. (I don't get out of town much, as you can tell.) The single best King Crimson performance I have witnessed - from 1973 to the present. One of the truly great musical experiences of my life. This one is worth preserving. My limited e-mail capacity is nearly exhausted. I'll have to finish in a second post. Sorry, all. Phil Toudic _______________________________________________________ Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "philippe toudic" Subject: Outer Darkness; Keneally; USA Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 13:58:48 PDT Dear ET Team, Due to my limited understanding of e-mail, this is part two of my previous post. One learns, however slowly. First, in ET #387 Ed Mayall mentioned "The Outer Darkness," part of the Gates of Paradise series. Does anyone have info on U.S. availability? (No, I haven't called DGM/PossProd yet. The website doesn't mention it.) Second, in ET #391 Pete Gilbert writes about a guitarist, in funny hat and Partridge Family T-shirt, contributing to a Soundscape performance and trying to goad Robert into soloing. As Robert Hickson pointed out in ET #390, that was Mike Keneally, 2d guitarist and keyboardist for Steve Vai. Both Vai and Keneally are Zappa alums, Keneally of the 1988 band. Mike is an interesting character and worth checking out for those with something of "a taste for the bizarre." The music is a twisted hard-rock/jazz fusion combo in the inimitable Keneally style. (Check out his Yes "tribute," Faithful Axe, from the Boil That Dust Speck CD.) Keneally info can be found at www.moosenet.com. (Including exciting road diaries with the Vai band and Beer for Dolphins, his own project. You'll laugh, you'll cry...) A few random notes in closing. I'll have to get out my vinyl copy of USA and compare it to TGD. I'd assumed that USA was mostly taken from the Providence show. I agree (with someone in ET # 391) that the USA 21CSM is the best version out. BTW, I would be happy to have both USA II and Concertgeboeuw (sp?) CDs on my shelf. As to "Un Reve...", I have it. As I recall, the sound quality is rather poor. Once essential, it's now mostly a curiosity thanks to the continuing efforts of all at DGM. Thanks DGM. Now, about "The Outer Darkness" .... Phil Toudic _______________________________________________________ Get Private Web-Based Email Free http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 04:37:46 +1200 From: David Maclennan Organization: Ministry of Commerce Subject: PFM, Yes, and a good KC score Colin (WrongWayCM at aol dot com) asked for a good Yes recommendation, so I say, try "Close to the Edge" or "Tales from Topographic Oceans" -- IMHO the band's two finest albums. "Close to the Edge", of course, features Bill Bruford. As for Chuck's PFM request, others have posted the website address, but there is also a mailing list that's quite active. I think details of this are on the website. PFM's "Photos of Ghosts" is my all-time favourite album. This is a somewhat heretical view among PFM fans, as most seem to think that the original Italian-language version of the album, "Per Un Amico", is better. It may well be, but I heard "Ghosts" first, and it is strongly identified with a particular time in my life, so I'll never change my opinion, I fear. I really like "The World Became the World" too (the Italian version is called "L'Isola di Niente"). I didn't like "Chocolate Kings" as much - I did not like Bernardo Lanzetti's vocals. Until I got on the Net I thought the band ceased to exist after this album, so I was very surprised to find they were still active until the early '80s, and are now back again. The "10 Anni Live" 4-CD set was quite a revelation. I'd like to check out at least the next two albums after "Choc Kings" on the strength of hearing what's on "10 Anni Live". And the KC content: I was in Melbourne, Australia last week to see two Peter Hammill solo shows (superb, BTW!), and while doing my customary trawl around the record stores managed to find a copy of the 12" single of the dance mix of "Sleepless" -- the only KC release I didn't have. Only 8 bucks too! Also found a near-mint US pressing of PFM's "Cook" live album, which I was also delighted to get. David Maclennan ------------------------------ From: Suso Navarrete Subject: Philip Glass Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 00:04:02 +0200 Hi all!! This is my first post to this mailing list. I hope not to be boring. Mattias Ribbing asked who was that guy called P. Glass who inspired KC, as said in a swedish rock encyclopedia. I'll try to say a few things: P. Glass is one of the most important american minimalist composers, as Terry Riley, Steve Reich, LaMonte Young and some others. Along the years, he has touched all kind of genres: Opera (Einstein on the beach, Akhnaten), piano solo, strings, concerts with a group directed by Michael Riesman (Music in twelve parts), music for films (Koyaanisqatsi, Powaqatsi and many others, some more commercial), ballet, colaborations with people all around the world (Foday Mousa Suso). He has played also almost all his music live: I have seen him twice, one playing Koyaanisqatsi while the film was projected and other with Beauty and Beast, the film by Cocteau. To listen to something, maybe I'd begin with a piano solo or organ album. Later, something orchestral, Itaipu is a good choice, or any of the soundtracks (Koyaa..). If you have the neccesary courage, the opera Einstein on the Beach could be interesting, as it resumes many of Glasse's points of view. When I first saw KC live in 1983 (Discipline-Beat tour), I thought of P. Glass, specially in the vibes or marimbas at the beginning of Waiting Man. But Philip Glass' influences (or at least minimalist's ones) are almost everywhere: You can hear the beginning of Tubular Bells, the classic from Mike Olfield, and you will find the same. Suso Navarrete suso at nexo dot es ------------------------------ From: "Ott, John" Subject: Tony levin projects, Eddie Jobson, ELP Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:35:25 -0400 > Although nothing can compare with KC as a whole, I absolutely love listening to the varied musical tangents of its individual members. I have recently started to listen to more and more of their individual projects and most recently picked up the soon to be released Bozzio, Levin & Stevens CD. This is a great CD! Levin is fantastic, Bozzio rocks and this guy Steve Stevens who I'd never heard of before ain't too bad either. < Steve used to play with Billy Idol, also with Vince Neil after Motley Crue broke up. I like his work with Idol. The reformed Crue was on David Letterman last week, if anyone cares. Tony also did a project with Andy Summers and Steward Copeland. They were to tour this summer but it fell apart. Image the stupid questions: Why did Sting shave his head? 8-) > 3) I'm not sure about Eddie Jobson, but a reunion of U.K. should happen very soon, and will probably include him. < I've been following the UK reunion and it is Eddie and John Wetton that have the recording deal. John had asked Eddie to play some overdubed strings on a record, that did not happen. But they found they wanted to work together and decided to do a UK project. Having a record company's interest didn't hurt either. B. Buford and Holsworth were to be special guests. Alan declined because of the structure. BB does play. also FR was asked during the NY Thrack dates but was too tired. He did play on John Wetton's "Archangel". (released in Japan, europe & US soon) (this was covered in ET by RF) Eddie Jobson has been producing sessions and writing soundtracks, Current credits include the CBS show "Nash Bridges" starring Don Johnson, Cheech Marin and my favorite redhead Annette O'Toole. There are also rumblings of a Downes/Wetton project. Does this mean John Payne is out of Asia? Probably not. Geoff Downes is the only "original" Asia member left. JP took over for JW after "Astra" Steve Howe contributes now and again. Palmer's last appearence in Asia was on "Aqua" ELP is coming to Wolftrap (Vienna, VA) this summer, I'll go despite Greg's diminished voice, These three can still play a bit. later John (bummed out prog rock pond scum fan) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 16:09:51 -0700 From: GeoMac Organization: Santa Ana College Subject: KC inspired by Philip Glass? Who is that guy? Mattias Ribbing wrote: >I read in a swedish rock encyclopedia (Bonnniers Rock Lexicon -93) >that the >80's version of King Crimson played "rythem based, experimental, >minimalistic music inspired by Philip Glass" (translated). Who is >Philip >Glass? He must be quite a guy if he inspired a band like King >Crimson. Can >someone please describe his music and name a couple of good >recordings with >him? Philip Glass is the most successful modern composer spaning the gap between "serious" music (albeit minimalist) and popular music. If you are looking for an introduction to his stuff and are a prog rock fan I suggest you try the soundtrack to the film "Mishima" Glass also put out the "Low Symphony" based on music by David Bowie and Brian Eno. That may be another good place to start. I like it. (Glass recently released another disk based on Bowie's "Hero's", but I have not heard that one yet). Since else someone also asked about Yes albums I'll put in my .02 there too. My personal favorites are: 1) The Yes Album 2) Fragile 3) 90125 (more pop/less prog) 4) Close to the Edge 5) Going for the One Phil Hughes NEBULUS: Neopsychedelic postgrunge retropunk...for the rest of us. http://home.earthlink.net/~soverman/nebulus.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 19:48:03 -0400 From: Milk & Cheese Subject: Frippertronics starting point? Just wondering what the consensus (sp?) is on where to start (and from there, continue) with Robert's frippertronics albums. I guess I'm looking more for melody than mood, although I understand that sometimes it just doesn't work that way. Thanks for the help, chabes -- "Was Jesus as funny as Franklin Adjaye ?" -- John S. Hall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 19:55:25 -0400 From: Milk & Cheese Subject: Philip Glass Philip Glass is an American minimalist composer, quite influential in his circles, which includes people like LaMonte Young and John Cage. I guess he's best known for several long pieces, "Einstein On The Beach" (my favourite), "Music With Changing Parts," and many others. Recently, he's released a very good cd "based" on Bowie's "Heroes" album. Also worth checking out would be his "Low" Symphony (Bowie again), or the sountrack to the film "Koyannisquatsi" (sp?) Hope this helps, Chabes -- "Was Jesus as funny as Franklin Adjaye ?" -- John S. Hall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 23:14:20 -0300 From: Andr\i Godin Subject: Glass, Minimalism, Chamberlain & Glueleg 1.Glass a minimalist? > I read in a swedish rock encyclopedia (Bonnniers Rock Lexicon -93) that= the > 80's version of King Crimson played "rythem based, experimental, > minimalistic music inspired by Philip Glass" (translated). Who is Phili= p > Glass? He must be quite a guy if he inspired a band like King Crimson. = Can > someone please describe his music and name a couple of good recordings = with > him? >=20 There are probably a ton of knowledgable ET'ers who will give you the lowdown on Philip Glass and do a much better job than I would. However, I'd like to make something perfectly clear Glass is NOT a minimalist. Like minimalist composers his music is west influenced, slow moving and sparse. However, his music does not follow true minimalist processes. His music is repetitive like the minimalists however his repetition is dictated by whim and not by a strict process. This is precisely why Glass has never accepted the designation of minimalist. (Does this make any sense to anyone?) Anyways if you want to here TRUE minimalism look for EARLY works by Terry Riley, Steve Reich, Lamonte Young and John Adams. Terry Riley's Symphony in C (or In C) is considered the seminal minimalist work (it's impact has been compared to Stravinsky's Le Sacre). Someone on the Brian Eno Nerve Net List has a midi version of it. Well worth getting! The entire Discipline albums shows traces of a minimalist influence allthought the title track is the only piece which might be considered minimalist. I really don't sense a Glass influence more of a Reich influence. I'd gladly discuss minimalism whith any ETer who e-mails me as this is one of my all-time favorite subjects.:) 2. Glueleg and Chamberlain On another subject, with all this talk of Melotron's and Chamberlain's, I thought I'd mention that the second Glueleg album (you might remember them from their Red cover on there first album) features a Chamberlain. I'd be willing to trade it, btw. p.s. Glad to see I'm not the only francophone out there! Faites de beaux r=EAves. ;) Andr=E9 (formerly known as Mr. Monday) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:39:08 -0400 (EDT) From: claire shindler Subject: November Suite/DGM newsletter I received my copy of the November Suite in the mail this week. I haven't been able to really give it a lot of attention yet but so far I'm impressed with how different it sounds than the other Soundscape discs I've heard. Less droney, with a wider array of sounds from the guitar- at times it sounds more like Adrian's "Guitar as Orchestra" album than Soundscapes past. Also, it doesn't focus on a single mood (like the way "1999" was always "dark and scary" and "Blessing of Tears" was always "achingly beautiful."); there are lots of contrasting moods here. Also included in the package was a DGM newsletter, which was set up as a long question-and-answer session. In it, Fripp gets specific about the "common practices" he's always vaguely referred to on DGM releases. The BS content in this piece was considerably lower than what's usually found in RF's writing. As a musician and business student, I'm glad he took the time to outline exactly how the record labels take advantage of their musicians. Thanks! I've still got a few questions regarding DGM: 1.) Why is there no mention of either ASCAP or BMI on any DGM release? In looking over my CD collection, I've found that nearly every other CD I own mentions one or the other. 2.) Fripp aims much of his attack specifically at Virgin. Is the KC-Virgin deal over, with all future Crimson releases coming directly from DGM, or do you suppose he was just letting off steam? He also talks at length about a series of "Second Editions" of DGM releases which he (or the others involved in making them, I guess) feel have aged poorly and could be improved today. He specifically named "The Bridge Between" (let's hope he includes the "Firescape" from the RFSQ video!) and "1999" as Second Editions-in-process. The possibilities are interesting - maybe there's a nastier version of the "Thrak" LP coming? Peter Shindler http://haven.tgot.one/sorry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 17:30:54 +0300 From: Adam Klin Subject: Porcupine Tree? Ho. First, as this is my first post to ET, I'd like to greet you all - I find this newsletter fascinating and very helpful in my ever-lasting quest for new music. In ET 375, Ken Brown priased PTree with such fervor I immediately rushed to the nearest CD shop, and tried to purchase 'Signify'. Much to my surprise, it wasn't there. It only arrived to Israel a few weeks ago, so - naturally - I bought it. I have been listening to it intensly for the last two weeks. First, because I really, really wanted to feel that rush of finding really Good Music again (which I haven't experienced for too long a time), later because I wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything, and now because (all in all) it's not a bad CD. But, and this is my point, it's not a very good CD. True, it's obvious PTree were influenced by King Crimson (as well as many other bands and artists). True, Steven Wilson is a very talented artist - just the range of instruments he plays left me gasping (Guitars, Keyboards, Mellotron, Sampler, Drum Programming and some more). The music, though, fails to hold water. It's mostly 'atmosphere' music, drifting around and around, dragging it's feet about, as if asleep. It wakes up from time to time, but it never really reaches interesting heights. The style and instruments used can be compared to KC, but certainly not the content or intensity. KC almost always make sure their instrumental pieces actually GO somewhere (usually several places), with the tone and mellody changing several times during a piece, or at least developing. PTree, on the other hand, usually establish the tone of the piece in the very beginning, and don't really take it anywhere from there on. Don't get me wrong - this CD is still one of the best I've heard lately. It's simply not excellent. Some of the pieces are fascinating (I especially appreciated 'Signify, Waiting phase two' and 'Idiot Prayer', and REALLY liked 'Dark Matter'), but as a whole - it's disappointing. Last night I listened to 'Larks' Tongues in Aspic' again, and we're not really talking the same scale here. If this is "The best band of the 90s", I'll take the 70s any day of the year. A finaly note - as always, this only represents my personal tastes and preferances. It's very possible that PTree will make someone else's heart burst out with joy. Mine didn't even beat fast. An unrealted question - I have the (beautiful and informative) 'Epitaph' 2CD set, and I'm of two minds whether to order the other 2CDs or not. I'm mostly looking for new material - such as 'Mars' was to me in the 2CD version (what a piece! I almost pulled out my car's driving wheel from the anxiety!). Should I, or should I buy one 80s KC albums (which I'm ashamed to admit I don't yet own) instead? Be Seeing You, Adam Klin adam at forum2 dot org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:45:51 +0100 From: Neil Talbott Subject: Philip Glass? Who is that guy? Philip Glass was one of the original American Minimalists, with Terry Riley and Steve Reich. Philip Glass wrote the soundtracks for KOYAANISQUAATSI and POWWASQUAATSI (sic) and MISHIMA. He's written several operas, including EINSTEIN ON THE BEACH and BEAUTY AND THE BEAST (to replace the George Auric soundtrack on the Cocteau film). Philip Glass is the guy who wrote two symphonies based on the David Bowie albums LOW and HEROES. A nice introduction to Glass is the String quartets played by Kronos on the Electra Nonesuch Label. Glass is/was a great influence on Mike Oldfield, as Terry Riley was on Soft Machine. In message , Mattias Ribbing writes >Hello. > >I read in a swedish rock encyclopedia (Bonnniers Rock Lexicon -93) that the >80's version of King Crimson played "rythem based, experimental, >minimalistic music inspired by Philip Glass" (translated). Who is Philip >Glass? He must be quite a guy if he inspired a band like King Crimson. Can >someone please describe his music and name a couple of good recordings with >him? > >Thank you, >Mattias Ribbing, >Den Klonade Orkestern (Comming soon with a website with free music inspired >by bands like King Crimson and Primus) > -- Neil Talbott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:54:59 -0700 (PDT) From: J Young Subject: Yes, Mind the Bullocks, it's Laundry Colin (WrongWayCM at aol dot com) opened this can o' worms: On a different note, I got a used Yes CD for $8 called UNION. It features many different players from different incarnations of Yes including Bruford and Levin as one rhythm section. Unfortunately I only found like three good songs out of 14. Can anyone recommend a good Yes album, I curious? *************** that's 3 more good songs than I found! $8 bucks seems a bit steep. Union is a staple of the $2 bargain bin. the Yes albums you want to get are: Drama, Tormato, Big Generator, and Talk. No, jesus, I'm kidding. If you listened to those four albums in a row, you would surely attempt to remove the small bones of your middle ear. While _drama_ is the worst album released before Madonna came about (and I am including the Ohio Express,) Yes did manage to make a few really good albums. _close to the Edge_ is my favorite, really just about the only one I still play with any regularity. the same lineup of yes was also on _fragile_, which is pretty good and contains "roundabout" _The Yes album_ contains the rest of their big classic rock radio hits, like "starship trooper" and "roundabout" ********** next, George Korein wrote from one of his many aliases: If you need a Crimson fix while waiting for the next album, check this out: Fripp said that he and Gunn have been enlisted in a project with the drummer of Ministry. That's 1/3 of Crimson. Also, I got my hands on an album by "Laundry", featuring a Stick player, a guitarist, a vocalist, and Tim Alexander, the drummer of Primus. Tim is an incredible drummer. The band combines aspects of Crimson with aspects of metal-grunge bands such as Tool and elements of Primus. ****** to which I add: The Fripp/Gunn/Bill Rieflin project sounds good. Rieflin played with Los Gauchos at the Glob-Mob-a-Looza event this year, and was excellent. He even cracked out those brushes that Al Jourgensen loves so much. A good fan page (with soundclips) for Laundry is: http://www.dlc.fi/~vesama/laundry/laundry.html I like the music quite a bit, but have problems with the vocals (this coming from a primus fan!) It seems Toby Hawkins (the singer) left, and Herb left primus to work on laundry, so I'm excited about the next Laundry release. My Inter-Crimson fix will be had on July 8th, when Primus' _the Brown album_ comes out. Initial listens (at Tower, where they have a promo copy) are promising. I was disappointed with the last two Primus albums, but really liked Les' solo _Highball with the devil_. Fans of 69 era King Crimson might get a kick out of the new Ween album, the Mollusk. The brothers Ween really wallow in that late 60s to early 70s sound. They don't make fun of specific songs, but slap together all the cornball elements from that era of music into wholly new songs. Check out the track "Buckingham Green." I don't think the boys were trying to make fun of KC (or any of those bands) but at times I got the feeling that Gener had Greg Lake in mind while he was singing. Shamus machismo at u dot washington dot edu ------------------------------ From: /G=Brian/S=Thomson/OU=0/OU=Unknown/@prudential.co.uk Subject: 14/07/96 Purcell Room, South Bank, London: Bill Bruford & Pe Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:23:37 +0100 >From the South Bank Centre "Gig Guide": "Mon 14 July Purcell Room 7:30PM Bill Bruford & Pete Lockett's Network of Sparks, featuring Johnny Kalsi (of the Dhol Foundation), NanaTsiboe and Simon Limbrick. After previously sold-out concerts at the Purcell Room, Pete Lockett joins forces with Bill Bruford (of Yes, King Crimson and Earthworks fame) for Rhythm Sticks. This very eclectic percussive experience incorporates the acoustic and electronic and experiences of Bruford and the multiworld percussion talents of Lockett along with members of teh Dhol Foundation, NanaTsiboe on African drums and Simon Limbrick on marimba and MIDI mallets." Sounds like a good one - anybody on the list going? If you're into rhythm, there's also a Gamelan Workshop on 13 July and a Billy Cobham masterclass and concert on 20 July as well. South Bank Centre Box Office number is 0171 960 4202 (I'm not connectd with them at all, but I'm going to the War Child Rescue concert on Saturday night at RFH - Laurie Anderson, Lou Reed, Ryuichi Sakamoto, maybe even Ben O'Rian, Brain One, Ben Arion and Inane Orb!) Brian Thomson, London bnt at ibm dot net PS: This message is about London, UK, not London, Ontario! ------------------------------ From: David Crossen Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:33:55 +0100 Subject: Re: USA Dieter Brink wrote in et#391: >I think there are in fact two songs from another show. These two songs were >recorded at Asbury Park, NY on June 28th 1974. While Asbury Park is part of >the "Frame By Frame"-box (CD four), 21st Century Schizoid Man is included >on the "Schizoid Man"-CD. So together with the Providence Show on "The >Grat Deceiver", the whole of "USA" is already available. I often wonder why >people are looking forward for the re-release of "USA". Maybe there are >more differences between the original and the re-release of "USA" than the >better sound quality ? The version of 21st Century Schizoid Man on the USA album is a REMIX of the performance at the Palace Theater, Providence R.I. on the 30th June 1974, which appears (without the overbubs) on "The Great Deceiver" box set. Listen to the solos to verify this! The remix involves mainly violin overdubs by Eddie Jobson, but Wetton's voice also sounds more distorted on the USA version, or maybe that's just my scratchy old vinyl. There are some other overdubs on other tracks from USA as well. The USA and TGD versions are slightly different, so I can understand why some of us old-timers might be more attached to the USA version, considering we've been listening to it for 20+ years. The version of 21st Century Schizoid Man on the "Schizoid Man"-CD from the same period was recorded at Asbury Park on 28th June 1974, 2 nights earlier. The credits on the "Schizoid Man"-CD state that it appears on USA II to be released in 1997. Cheers (I'll take the anorak off now), Dave Crossen. ------------------------------ From: Ted White Subject: Schizoid Noises & Other Stuff Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:33:53 -0400 Digests have been coming out fast and furiously of late; it's getting hard to keep up with them - but I'm not complaining! The arrival of a new ET makes my day, here at work. In 390, Jonathan Korein asks what "the noise" that opens "Schizoid Man" (in the original recording) is. I don't know for certain, but I've always assumed it was wind noises produced by Ian's sax. As a saxophonist I could make those noises with a sax. There may well be other sounds blended in. (I've always regretted the absence of that "prelude" in the subsequent live versions.) Steve Smith isn't thrilled with Tower. I have to say that it depends on the store. There are five here in the greater Washington DC area, of which I've been to three, and each is different. The downtown DC store has the best jazz selection, but its rock imports are solely contemporary and few if any progressive groups are included. The Tysons Corner store in Northern Virginia is somewhat weaker on jazz, but has the best import section of any store I've ever been in, maintained by Bob Karnes, who is a serious fan of the music. In addition to a general import section that stocks many of the better releases from 1960 - present, there are separate sections devoted to German, French, Italian, Spanish, South American, and Scandinavian progressive imports. The total section is quite large and quite comprehensive. Bob tracks down amazingly obscure stuff, and is one of my major sources. (It was here that I first found the CDs of that amazing Hungarian band, After Crying - possibly the best group performing today.) (Doug Larson, in New Jersey, is another source.) If you live in this area, you owe it to yourself to check this Tower out. There's been a lot of talk about USA and where it was recorded. Clue: any live, improvised track that has as its name a place name ("Asbury Park," "Providence") was probably recorded in that place. I noticed this naming practice first on EARTHBOUND, and have adopted its use for myself on occasion. In 391 JG seems stuck on the concept of Fripp's fellow bandmates (from 1969) being over-the-hill losers. I would not be that hasty. His joke-titles strike me as juvenile and asinine. Colin wants "a good Yes album" recommended to him. CLOSE TO THE EDGE was always my favorite, but either of the two preceding albums, FRAGILE and THE YES ALBUM, are also worth checking out. The band was still growing, at that stage. (Imagine how it would have sounded had Fripp joined instead of Howe, when Peter Banks left. He WAS invited to, you know.) (Speaking of which, are all you Frippophiles aware that Fripp played with Peter Hammill [first solo album] and Van Der Graaf Generator [PAWN HEARTS, if memory serves]?) George Korein mentions the Japanese band, Happy Family. George, I have two (of at least three) CDs by this band, and I noticed no obvious Crimsoid tendancies. They're off-the-wall in a Zappaesque way, is my first impression, but I haven't gotten very deeply into those albums yet. Mattias Ribbing asks Philip Glass. He comes out of the 60's school of minimalism, following the lead of LaMonte Young, Steve Reich and Terry Reilly, and has been very successful in the modern "classical" music arena. He's done a wide variety of things, including orchestral suites of music by Bowie (which I found disappointing). I seriously doubt he had much effect on the original Crimson, but may have influenced Fripp later, in the Frippertronics/Soundscapes area. On the evidence of EPITAPH, I have to conclude Holst was the classical composer who influenced Crimson the most, to begin with. (Speaking of EPITAPH, has anyone else noticed/remarked upon the coincidence of this title being used for albums by both KC and the late Charles Mingus (posthumously)?) --Ted White ------------------------------ From: "Chris Mitchell" Subject: Soundscapes Etc. Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:46:22 -0400 Hello ET masses. I'd like to drop my two pennies in the general review jar and recommend RF's November Suite album. I don't know if it's his "best yet," but it's certainly worth getting if you liked the previous soundscapes. For those who are wondering where to start, I'd point to That Which Passes - concise, varied, and effective. It will leave you wanting more. Apart from the whole of T.W.P., here are some other soundscapes that stand out to me: Cathedral of Tears, Radiophonic 1, Sky (very poignant), and 2001 (incredibly poignant). Anyone else have any favorites? A tip of the hat to Chris Mills for posting the Blessing of Tears anecdote. Very nice. TLev's website has announced the availability of the Cave album. Also noted is a big DGM release event of some sort, coming in August or so. Apparently the Bruford/Towner/Gomez album will be part of that. Can't wait. BTW, Ralph Towner fans should check out his latest solo guitar album, ANA. Now if you had Towner, Fripp, and Allan Holdsworth, THAT would be the ideal G3! chris m. squonk at utkux dot utcc dot utk dot edu ------------------------------ From: Mark Jakusovszky Subject: Who is Philip Glass? Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:04:16 -0600 I read in a Swedish rock encyclopedia (Bonnniers Rock Lexicon -93) that the 80's version of King Crimson played "rhythm based, experimental, minimalistic music inspired by Philip Glass" (translated). Who is Philip Glass? He must be quite a guy if he inspired a band like King Crimson. Can someone please describe his music and name a couple of good recordings with him? Philip Glass is a 'minimalist composer' (an originator according to some) who has done some very interesting works, both music alone and music for plays or operas. I find his music very relaxing, almost hypnotic, much like some (not all) soundscapes. His most famous work is probably 'Einstein on the Beach', a masterwork with lyrics consisting of small snippets plus only the letters of the alphabet and numbers. I would not, however, recommend this for a beginner. I would suggest: - Powaquattsi (please forgive spelling mistakes) - Powerful music - Glassworks - Very mellifluous piano (plus accompaniment) pieces - Songs from Liquid Days - not true minimalist, very strong vocalist accompaniment - Heroes - just released - Arrangements of songs on the Bowie album Try it. Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:33:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Throatspro at aol dot com Subject: USA The reason why USA remains such a collectible among us Crimheads is two-fold: 1) The album contained some studio overdubs, notably Eddie Jobson's banshee-like violin solo on "Larks Tongues in Aspic, Part 2." While this version of the song may be less authentic than the raw take on THE GREAT DECEIVER, I miss that solo and want it back. 2) The striking cover art. P.S. I'm not holding my breath. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:18:39 -0400 From: ai644 at detroit dot freenet dot org (Barry A. Lonik) Subject: Fripp query So, ET comrades, having read the reports from the G3 tour with our buddy RF (I also heard the drag race-style commercial on the radio here in Detroit and about lost a gasket), I ask this: why is he doing this tour? To attract a new audience? (Hard to do when you start before the gates open and leave before most folks arrive.) For the money? For the comraderie? To do something different? To experience his own music in a large PA? To go on a tour that doesn't require his attention every waking moment? I'm curious to know what y'all think, or if Fripp's said anything anywhere. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 17:54:21 -0400 From: Alan Wilde Subject: (none) In one of the ET articles there was talk, I believe, of Ian McDonald getting the tapes of the McDonald Giles album and rereleasing it with outtakes etc?? Are there outakes from ITCOTCK and ITWOP?? Wouldn't this be a good idea for a box set of the 1969/1970 Band?? I think it would be great because there is so much in common with all three of these projects that a box set could do it justice. I hope Disipline records continues to release archive recordings because they are so much better than the boots that are out there. In addition, we need to support the guys by purchasing these things legitimately so that they can continue to release more things for us to enjoy. One thing that may be interesting to do is to make a section of ET that lets us know what each member or former member is up to so that we can follow them as well. I think that you have done a great job with ET and look forward to each issue that you produce. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:19:31 -0400 (EDT) From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: Soundscapes/Vai's 2nd G. In ET#391, Pete Gilbert writes about a mysterious guitarist lurking about durring Fripps performance:. >Robert played until about 1830. He was joined from time to time by a guitar >player wearing a funny hat and a 'Partridge Family" t shirt, but later we observed >that this fellow was Steve Vai's 2nd guitarist and keyboardist. .. Having not seen any of the Fripp/G3 shows I can't say without a doubt, but, if I'm not mistaken this 2nd Vai guitarist would be Mike Keneally, another Zappa veteran like Steve Vai. I recall reading on the Zappa newsgroups that Mike had auditioned and was awarded the spot. Perhaps some other ETers in the know my corroborate this. Mike played with Zappa durring the fated '88 tour - Zappa's last rock group tour -which unfortunately only made it through W. Euorpe and East Coast & Mid West USA before disbanding prior to any west coast shows. Mike is a proficient guitarist and worth your time to check out if Zappa's style interests you. He tours occaissionally with his band "Beer For Dolphins". He has at least two or three records under his name and/or his band. Sorry for the semi-related post. Thought. Rgds, Matt Lehmna ------------------------------ From: Tim Regester Subject: (none) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:32:20 +0100 Dear ET'ers In Response to Colin (WrongWayCM at aol dot com) in ET~391 >Can anyone recommend a good Yes album, I curious? -Colin I would agree with you on Union there are only three maybe four tracks on it that are any good. As to recommendations for a good Yes album, Well IMHO there are many... The Yes Album - great songs, superb playing, raw and memorable Fragile - more experimental, stunning instrumentation great songs (excellent early Bruford composition Close to the Edge - Longer tracks, again superb playing many memorable moments ( the last album before falling over the abyss of pomposity) Tales from Topographic Oceans - overlong pomposity mainly but some absolutely stunning moments of musical genius ( no Bruford by the way) Going for the One - A return to form a bit too over produced but the finest prog rock slide guitar you may ever hear 91025 - A beautifully crafted record but not really prog rock ( a Hi0fi benchmark recording by the way) This is not an exhaustive list but a dood starting point. By the way on a different tack, I feel obliged to reccomend the band Radiohead to all fans of KC They always make me recall mid to late 70's KC/RF in the kind of riffs and textures they create. Any ET'ers going to WOMAD in Reading 'Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of fools' Tim Regester ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #394 ********************************