Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #393 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 393 Thursday, 3 July 1997 Today's Topics: Re: P.F.M. GLASS - influ #391:"Who is Philip Glass?" Tony Levin's bands More on the Provenance of USA Careful w/ Axe / TOAPP Why I like Robert Fripp Soundscapes New Friends Aboard Pete Sinfield's Stillusion Re: Alexander This is Philip Glass Re: On Happy Family... Philip Glass and KC About Philip Glass Silence Re: Philip Glass? Who's this guy? USA: Not on Great Deceiver set! / Union=Onion USA is Greatly Deceptive ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Subject: Re: P.F.M. Date: Tue, 1 Jul 97 12:15:56 -0000 From: Andrea Tolin P.F.M. was (is...) an italian "progressive" group of the '70, the only band at that time that had some kind of success outside italian borders (in USA)... Some P.F.M. (Premiata Forneria Marconi) CDs are available in Italy, not all I believe, especially the oldest... Some of the original members have restarted the group THIS YEAR and a new CD is out; it's called "Ulisse" and it's not bad at all...... Best, Andrea >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 18:28:46 -0400 (EDT) >From: Chuck Arcovitch >Subject: P.F.M. >Dear e-talk, > I'm a first time writter. #383 stirred my memory. Does anyone know >anything about P.F.M.? I had the record P.F.M. "Cook" years ago. It was on >ELP's Manticore label as I recall. I never knew a darn thing about that >band and I'm still interested. Are P.F.M. CD's available? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:23:39 +0100 (BST) From: Markus Schneemann Subject: GLASS - influ Mattias Ribbing asked in ET 391 whether KC was inspired by Philip Glass and who he is ? Phil Glass is part of a movement of American composers who started in the 1960s to write harmonically simple music with emphasis on rhythm and instrumental colour. This movement, called 'minimalism', started with LaMonte Toung and Terry Riley ( "In C") - and then Steve Reich, Phil Glass and John Adams became the most successful of minimalists. They reacted against the complexity, intellectualism and "inaccessability" of the 'serialism' by Stockhausen, Boulez, Nono et al. Glass is most famous for his operas "Satyagraha" , "Echnaton" and "Einstein on the Beach" which were produced in Stuttgart/Germany in the 1980s with enormous success - due to an equivalent minimalistic stage production by Robert Wilson. They are all available on record as well. A good introduction to Glass, however, could be the movie "Koyaaniqatsi" by G. Reggio (F.F. Coppola/production) from the early 1980s with music by Glass, but you need a BIG screen to enjoy the film and the music. I'm not sure about any influence by any minimalist on KC's Discipline era. The closest I can think of is the instrumental 'Discipline' with its emphasis on 'micro'rhythmical changes/overlaps in the context of a repetitive motif. So long, Markus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 10:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Alan dot Maguire at mercer dot ie Subject: (none) Hi all, A few things: 1. Someone mentioned the new Radiohead album OK Computer a few issues back. Does anyone agree with me that the track Exit Music is strangely like Starless? Its full of Mellotron and the Bass has that John Wetton Fart-like distortion sound. 2. Someone asked if you can use an E-Bow with an acoustic guitar...well, I've never tried myself but Billy Corgan of the Smashing Pumpkins has (on Spaceboy, Siamese Dream) to interesting effect. 3. Dan Kirkdoffer mentioned Zoolook by Jean-Michel Jarre, in connection with That Which Passes. I cant imagine soundscapes being like this. Belews influence on them both I suppose.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 10:39:05 +0100 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: #391:"Who is Philip Glass?" Philip Glass is an American composer who uses classical forms to explore some rather non-classical ideas. His music is often called "minimalist" because it appears to repeat the same patterns, but a more attentive listening unmasks subtle, interesting differences. He has recently composed symphonys based on the music of Brian Eno and David Bowie ("Low" and "Heroes") and these discs may be a good place to start. His operas, like "Eienstein on the Beach", are more abrasive, but perhaps more interesting. His influence on King Crimson is not obvious--at least not to me--but his work certainly bares some similarity to Fripp and Eno's solo work, at least conceptually. ("Solo Piano" is a good example of this, but don't expect any of his work to "sound like" Fripp.) Personally, I doubt his influence on Fripp is as strong as the writer suggests, but Glass is well worth listening to. There is a web sight called "Glass Pages" that includes a full "Glassography" and audio samples of his work. (The audio portion also includes Glass's verbal explanations of some of his work.) This may be the best place to start. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 13:11:38 -0400 From: John Ambrose Subject: Tony Levin's bands Hi... I ecently heard that Tony Levin is putting out an album on the Magna Carta label with Steve Stevens (?) and Terry Bozzio. I have a question: In what bands has Tony Levin "officially" been a member? Obviously, he's an official member of King Crimson. He's done studio work with Peter Gabriel, Yes/ABWH, and he has a solo album out. But was he ever considered an actual member of any bands besides KC? Thanks! --John Ambrose johnny at cyberwar dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 19:11:23 +0200 From: Paul M Davies Organization: SunSoft ICNC Subject: More on the Provenance of USA I'll get my oar in before Toby declares this a taboo subject. [ Any second now... -- Toby ] Having listened closely to USA and TGD many times, I have to say that I find it hard to believe that any of USA, except Schizoid Man, has resurfaced on TGD. The performance variations are too great. The version of Schizoid man on TGD sounds almost identical to that on USA. The main differences I hear are: * The distortion on the vocals on the USA version. * The crowd noise at the start: On USA, the crowd noise has almost died down as the song starts.On TGD, the crowd is still cheering as the song starts. Apart from those differences, the versions of Schizoid Man on USA and TGD are note for note identical. Given that this band never played the same song the same way two nights running, I find it hard to believe that the versions of Schizoid man on USA and TGD come from different shows. The version from Asbury Park on the Schizoid Man CD is definitely not the version on USA. The two versions are completely different. Does this fine-tooth comb job qualify me as the type of Crim-head mentioned on the insert for TGD disc 4? The Schizoid Man CD tantalizingly holds out the prospect of USA II. I wonder what it will contain. Given that TGD contains a long excerpt from a concert where according to Fripp's diary entry he played so badly that he could not be brought down afterwards, in the interests of balance it would be nice to hear the performance which registered "out of this world" at the base of the Fripp spine for the first time since the 1969 King Crimson. FWIW, I listened to Fripp's supposedly duff performance, earlier today, and the base of my own spine registered "out of this world". Which of these two critiques of the same performance says more about the critic than the performance, I wonder? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:17:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Weirdy2 at aol dot com Subject: Careful w/ Axe / TOAPP I am a little confused about the Three Of a Perfect Pair laserdisk/video that is "out of print". Possible Productions has this release in their new catalog on laserdisk. Does this mean that it is being re-released on video as well? If this will not available on video, I would be happy to send someone (who has the laserdisk and player) a blank video tape and a little money for a copy of it. Also, I purchased the Fripp, "Careful With That Axe", video from Possible Productions. It is really great, but I have seen listings for other songs which dont appear on the video. Neal and Jack and Me, Sheltering Sky, etc. Is there another version of this video available? Any help would be appreciated chris bogen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 97 16:15:17 -0700 From: Christopher Jepson Subject: Why I like Robert Fripp There have been several posts recently on the subject of what we find appealing about King Crimson's music. I enjoy the music for its intrinsic qualities, of course, which I discussed in an earlier post; but I think my enjoyment is enhanced because I like Robert Fripp. Now it may be seem presumptuous of me to say this, since I don't know Robert personally. However, since he is a "public figure" (that creation of mass culture), we do have access to certain aspects of Fripp the person. And there are some public figures who I (rightly or wrongly) have the feeling of "knowing" better than others -- and by "knowing" I don't mean just knowing facts about them; I mean the feeling of connectedness that you get from knowing another person. I think this odd phenomenon is generally the result of the combination of several conditions. First, of course, some public figures are just more public than others. For example, the Beatles were such a constant presence for those of us who grew up in the sixties that we tend to feel that we "know" them in some sense. Secondly, some public figures seem to reveal more of who they are than others. For example, listening to John Lennon always seemed to me like having a heart-to-heart talk with someone, whereas listening to Paul McCartney was more like a very enjoyable light conversation. And finally, I have to feel some sort of "sympathetic vibration" to what is revealed. The result is kind of hard to describe; it's like you might feel about an uncle who you hardly ever got to see when you were growing up because he lived far away, but who you always thought was really cool. Because music is important to me, the public figures I feel this way about are mostly musicians. Not surprisingly, most are songwriters, since the most obvious way for a musician to tell others about him/herself is through the words of songs. Fripp, of course, does not reveal himself through lyrics, but rather, through exceptionally distinctive music and through the fact that he wears his philosophy on his sleeve by talking and writing and most importantly putting it into practice in his career. And his philosophy seems generally to mesh pretty well with the way I think. So I have this image of Robert Fripp as a person who is more or less on the same frequency as me but further along in some respects. I think this feeling of knowing a person enhances one's enjoyment of their music because you feel like you have some insight into it -- you have some understanding of *why* their music is the way it is. This phenomenon might possibly help to explain (at least in part) why some listeners might seek out a level of personal contact that the musician may find inappropriate: They are behaving as they might behave toward someone they already know, but to the musician, they are total strangers. Does anybody else experience this? -- CJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:17:49 -0400 From: Sid Smith Subject: Soundscapes It's certainly interesting reading about the different reactions to Soundscapes at the G3 gigs in the States. Clearly Fripp wanted to start 'scaping before the audience arrived in order to allow time to build the piece up. At the risk of sounding condescending, I would imagine that most members of the G3 crowd (i.e. those which came to see Satriani, etc.) would find the concept of what RF was doing to be a bit on the dull side. Even when RF opened with Soundscapes at the second night at King Crimson's gig in Shepherd's Bush last year, many people in the audience near me were talking, shouting and were clearly impatient for the main act to come on stage. I certainly got the impression that many of them wanted Fripp "to get on with it" i.e. "shut up and play yer guitar, properly". I'm lucky enough to have seen RF on one day at Salisbury Cathedral. This was a superb venue and seemed to compliment the music perfectly. Shepherd's Bush and Virgin Megastore, whilst enjoyable experiences, just didn't quite work in 15 - 20 minute sound bites. These pieces seem to need a good hour or so to live and breathe. And yes, walking around as the music develops is for me, part of the experience as it clearly is for RF. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 97 02:16:38 UT From: "Jonathan Korein" Gunn confirmed (in an IRC chat which I found in ET resources) that quarter-tone Stick duets were being composed. I don't know much about Phillip Glass, but I know that he composed Three-hour pieces and stuff. Naturally this lead to him being accused of being pompous: see King Missile's song "Glass", in which the drummer noodles around on the piano while the singer yells "Hey! I'm Phillip Glass! Look at me! Hey Einstein! Get off the beach!" (One of Glass's pieces is entitled "Einstein on the Beach") On Urizen00's FbF cover analysis: I don't know if you're right, but I like the idea... Crimson uses the voice of darkness as the means to an end! Some tracks, such as the whole album of Red, "THRAK", "Dinosaur", "Fracture", etc., sound like the "voice of darkness" is definitely being employed, but then again, Crimson also has tunes such as "Matte Kudasai", "Trio", "Islands", "ITTTW", "Cadence", where the voice of darkness is certainly not present. As to female KC fans, the subject should be put to rest. Gender has little connection to taste. If female KC fans are the minority, that is a matter of coincidence. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 22:49:30 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: New Friends Aboard Hello Friends: Well last week I got to go to the G3 concert in Cleveland courtesy of Bill Forth (thanks, Bill!). As many of you know, Robert Fripp was the opening act with his soundscapes. But that was not the end for him! He came back for the all star jam at the end of the show. I never really expected to see Fripp jamming to such songs as 'Going Down' and 'You Really Got Me,' but he showed them young whippersnappers a thing or two! :-) After the show I got to chat to Bill and Mike Keneally as well. It was a lot of fun. We have some new labels to welcome to The Artist Shop. I want to give a very special welcome to a label that is sure to become a favorite of the collectors out there - King Biscuit Flower Hour Records! They started as a syndicated radio program of live concerts back in 1973 (actually the name was based on an old blues program dating back to the 1920's). Since then they've amassed a huge warehouse of live tapes, about 16,000 hours worth! It only seemed logical to put those out on the open market. Most of these discs were mastered with the artists' cooperation. There are about 27 of these discs available now and it's King Biscuit's intention to release about 24 of these concerts every year. You'll find the page at . My personal favorites among the present batch include Greg Lake, 10CC, Renaissance, Rick Wakeman, David Crosby, etc. Also just got a new one in by Uriah Heep! Speaking of Greg Lake, we also have a very special autographed collector's edition of that disc which you'll find at . You'll definitely want to check it out. Also new to The Artist Shop is Voiceprint Records along with it's sister labels, Blueprint and Resurgence. Voiceprint is quite popular among progressive fans and carries much by Anthony Phillips, Bill Nelson, Asia, Tom Newman, Atomic Rooster, Arthur Brown and Kingdome Come, David Bedford, Jakko, Pete Sinfield, Porcupine Tree, John Wetton, and a lot of artists affilliated with the Canterbury scene, like Robert Wyatt, Hugh Hopper, Soft Machine, John Greaves, Todd Dillingham, Mont Campbell, Peter Blegvad, National Health, Dave Sinclair, Wilde Flowers and more. You'll find their page at . It's a big catalog and you'll definitely want to check it out. Some of their most recent releases include a whole series of official bootlegs from Asia, the newest being Live in Philadelphia and Live in Koln. Also a real surprise (and a real delight) is a brand new official bootleg from Peter Banks' Flash called Psychosync. As this is the only official live representation of Flash anywhere, it's definitely a must have and a real showcase for Peter Banks' live performances. Hope you'll stop by for a visit and don't forget to check out our new Camel page at . Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:38:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Otherroad at aol dot com Subject: Pete Sinfield's Stillusion For those of you who've expressed curiosity regarding Pete Sinfield and his album, Stillusion, you'll now find that album with cover graphic and soundbite in The Artist Shop. We've recently had Voiceprint join us and this album happens to be in their catalog. This album also features other Crimson alumni Greg Lake, John Wetton, Ian Wallace and Mel Collins, not to mention honorary members Keith Tippet and Robin Miller. You'll find this album at . Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:21:34 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Alexander Someone wrote: >Also, I got my hands on an >album by "Laundry", featuring a Stick player, a guitarist, a vocalist, and >Tim Alexander, the drummer of Primus. He's not the drummer anymore. Now "The Brain" drums with Primus. Eb ------------------------------ From: jlack at auran dot com (Jamie Lack) Subject: This is Philip Glass Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:37:28 +1000 In response to Mattias Ribbing's post in ET#391 about Philip Glass. Firstly, I am unsure as to the validity of the statement found in the "swedish rock encyclopedia" that claims the 80's KC was inspired by Philip Glass. As an appreciative listener of both, I would say there are some parallels, but Philip Glass is such a master of depth in repetition and minimalism, and his compositions tend to be flowing and evolving over a much larger length of time than Crimson. Glass uses notes in an intertwined, gliding way, with an organic randomness that is a lot different from the staccatto, machine like precision of Fripp and his interlocking crafty guitar style. Having said this, I find amazing similarities in the two musicians Fripp and Glass. Things that come to mind are the way that the two can dart around a musical point with ease, and bind a solid wall of tension with a few notes, only to smash it down in some equally unsettling way. Listen to "The Canyon" by Glass (Brilliant) and well, Fripp does it a lot, but the first track on LOG "God save the King" and a lot of Frippertronics, especially "Threnody for souls in Torment" of RFSQ show it up. I remember that in the "Interview with Robert Fripp online in the CompuServe Convention Center" Robert responded to the question "Do you Like Philip Glass?" with "I'd rather not comment on other musicians" Another link between the two is the fact that RF plays on Bowie's "Heroes", and Philip Glass recently composed a symphony based on Heroes, called "Heroes symphony". As for Philip Glass for the uninitiated, he composes Opera, Orchestra, World music and solo Instrumental as well as dance\ballet and theater among other things. Most of the music is very rhythmic, but rarely uses percussion. It is also very repetitive at times, and quite mesmerising in detail, despite the minimal style he uses. His best works include Koyaanisquatsi (Soundtrack to stunning vis-fest film, that "Baraka" derives from.) Satyagraha (Opera about Mahatma Ghandi) The canyon\Itaipu Passages (Unbelievable collaboration between Philip and Ravi Shankar - get it!) The screens (Music from a play, together with an African composer) Solo Piano There are a lot of releases in his catalogue, and there is a box set compilation, and a single CD compilation available. Jamie Lack jlack at auran dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:05:31 -0400 From: 93039260 at callisto dot si dot usherb dot ca (Francois Couture) Subject: Re: On Happy Family... >Also, I found a band named Happy Family on the >net. I haven't heard them, but all of their reviews say that they have a >heavy crimson influence. They even supposedly play a song which uses the >intro from Red. They are Japanese. Drums, bass, guitar and keyboards, if I >remember correctly. Instrumental. HEY! Somebody else than me talking about Happy Family! Great! These guys are fantastic. Yes they are drums, bass, guitar and keyboard. Yes, they are Japanese (and so, loud and noisy like most Japan's avant-garde scene : Otomo Yoshihide, Ground Zero, Keiji Haino, etc.). And very Crimson influenced. In fact, the magazine Audion described them as somewher between Magma, Univers Zero, Weidorje and KC. It really is KC doing some kind of Japanese zeuhl... Check out their brand new album, Toscco, on Cuneiform records. I tell you : FANTASTIC! But ou have to be into that kind of thing. And by the way, Cuneiform is a record company mostly dedicated to avant-garde prog music. Classics like Univers Zero, and band influenced by zeuhl and KCesque music. Bands like Holland's Blast and Quebec's Miriodor are worth (and more) a listen. Finally, if you like Happy Family or KC, you have to check out the new Boud Deun cd, 'Astronomy made easy'. Guitar, violin, bass, drums. Yes, this is the 'Larks Tongues' line-up. Yes, it sounds like that too. All instrumental. Maybe even more edgy than KC. I think of those guys as having taken the KC line-up into another dimension. Also on Cuneiform. By the way, I produce and host a show on CFLX 95,5 FM, Sherbrooke, Quebec, called 'Delire actuel', dedicated to avant-garde and free-jazz. SO, if you have any questions or comments about the artists I mentioned here, or others, or if you want to know why I so much love 'Thrakattak', feel free to write directly to me. Francois Couture Music is the best - Zappa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:16:45 -0400 From: 93039260 at callisto dot si dot usherb dot ca (Francois Couture) Subject: Philip Glass and KC >I read in a swedish rock encyclopedia (Bonnniers Rock Lexicon -93) that the >80's version of King Crimson played "rythem based, experimental, >minimalistic music inspired by Philip Glass" (translated). Who is Philip >Glass? He must be quite a guy if he inspired a band like King Crimson. Can >someone please describe his music and name a couple of good recordings with >him? Philip Glass is an avant-garde composer. He usually works and record with his Philip Glass ensemble directed by keyboardist Michael Riesman. The usual Glass trademarks are : woodwinds, keyboards and moog bass whirling into intricated paterns consisting of repetitive, circling riffs altered now and then by changing one note or one rythm to let the pattern evolve into something else. Long, intense pieces developping very slowly (something not even progression, just 'morphing' into something else). Sometimes adds vocal parts consisting of 'Ahh' of random syllables or numbers. He is great. The reason why a music critic would that Fripp was inspired by Glass is simple : Glass's cricling repetitive motifs are quite alike Fripp's guitar riffs. If you are interested in Glass, start with his classic 'Glassworks'. There might be themes on this cd you might even recognize. If you want to push it a little bit further, the greatest experience with Glass is to find a copy of 'Einstein on the Beach'. Try the new version recorded around 1993. It is longer and more complete than the original 1977 lps. It is a three hours anti-opera. Listen to it in the dark, sitting right between your speakers. Let yourself be moved (like in circling) by the patterns. I promise you will understand what Glass is all about and how the word 'minimalism', though accurate, is... unfair. Francois Couture ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:16:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Arthur Thomas Andrews Subject: About Philip Glass To answer the query about Philip Glass in ET #391, I will provide the extent of my somewhat limited knowlege of Philip Glass. He started off, strangely enough, in a fusion band that played Weather Report tunes. I say "strangely," because he would become a major figure in a branch of modern classical music (is that an oxymoron?) called minimalism. Minimalism is characterized by its steady, relentless rhythm, thick texture, and timbral homogenity. In other words, it is very repetitive music, that changes slowly over the course of the piece. Usually, the timbre of the instrumentation stays constant, with small and gradual variations in rhythm, harmony and melody. It sounds like they keep playing the same measure over and over again at first listen, but soon, _some_ come to appreciate the subtlelty of the genre. Philip Glass is a major 20th C composer, who has written film music, neo-operas, and chamber music. His most famous work is "Einstein on the Beach." In EOTB, their is a choir singing over a swirling amplified keyboard texture. I write this objectively, because I find his music rather tedious. The piece I just mentioned, for example, is four cd's of very subtle music. I heard once from my high school music theory teacher (Hi Mr. Leahey) that Philip himself hasn't been able to sit through his entire 4 cd epic at once sitting. Nevertheless, he is an influential and important composer. I see his influence on KC most apparent in their 80's two-guitar writing, especially in the track Discipline. Its all there, the repetitive rhythms that change slowly over the piece and the similarity of tone between the two guitars. No weird "bag of tricks" sounds on this one. There will be a short quiz on this material in the next ET ;-) Over and out. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arthur Andrews ata5d at virginia dot edu http://watt.seas.virginia.edu/~ata5d/art.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: bullj1 at westatpo dot westat dot com Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 10:31:07 EDT Subject: Silence In response to the question of why musicians "play" silence, here are some excerpts from late '80s monographs by RFripp. Keep in mind he says he wouldn't say [the monograph] things the same way today. Also, I gender-neutralized the text. Actually, what we do is inseparable from how and why we do what we do. So, the transformation of sound is inseparable from a transformation of self, a refining of what we are. For example, we attract silence by being silent. The master musician approaches music through its quality; that is, they work from silence, organise the silence, and place sound in-between the silences. We approach music from silence by being silent. We only discover the quality in music if we discover the quality in ourself. Luckily, music knows itself better than we do and sometimes whispers in our ear. 1. Music is the cup which holds the wine of silence; sound is that cup, but empty; noise is that cup, but broken. 2. Music is a quality organised in sound. If the artist is silent, responding directly to the creative impulse of music as it flies by, what is to be said of the audience which is one in this creative act of music? What might we call this audience for the architecture of silence, in sound? Perhaps a creative audience. Generally, we assume words bring us together. In a world of functioning, of doing things together, this may be so. But in a world of being, where we already are together, probably silence is a better syntax than argument. One language of being is music. JoanBull bullj1 at westat dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:55:15 -0600 From: kholmhud at nwu dot edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) Subject: Re: Philip Glass? Who's this guy? Mattias Ribbing wrote: >I read in a swedish rock encyclopedia (Bonnniers Rock Lexicon -93) that the >80's version of King Crimson played "rythem based, experimental, >minimalistic music inspired by Philip Glass" (translated). Who is Philip >Glass? He must be quite a guy if he inspired a band like King Crimson. Can >someone please describe his music and name a couple of good recordings with >him? Philip Glass is an American composer who, along with LaMonte Young, Terry Riley, and Steve Reich, is widely credited as an originator of "minimalist" music. This style of contemporary classical music is characterized by its high degree of repetition (and also its avoidance of dissonance). Glass's early style emphasizes motoristic organ and woodwind patterns, sometimes interlocking, repeated many times before changing (sound like Fripp's and Belew's guitar parts on Discipline?). Actually it's a bit more complicated than that--in the early pieces there may be only two or three pitches repeated ad infinitum, but the rhythms and ordering of the pitches are often in constant flux--fascinating example of variation within repetition. IMO, his best music is taken in *large* doses, to allow for the "trance" effect. Examples of this "epic" early style would include _Einstein On the Beach_ (*the* one to get if you only get one) (CBS Masterworks or Nonesuch--IMO, the CBS recording is better), _Music in Similar Motion/Music in Fifths/Two Pages_ or _Music with Changing Parts_ (both on Nonesuch). If you have a challenged attention span or just want to get your ears wet, you might try _North Star_ (Virgin) or his "pop" album _Songs From Liquid Days_ (CBS). Glass also did an excellent soundtrack to Geoffrey Reggio's film _Koyannisqatsi_--you can buy the soundtrack on CD, but you really should experience the music with the video! All of these recordings are from the 1980s or earlier; generally, I've found his later music to be far more conservative and not as interesting. Glass also produced (and plays keyboards on) two early-80s albums by the NYC new-wave band Polyrock--out of print but occasionally found for cheap in used-record bins. This band's tight, modular style is also not unlike 80s Crimso, but more keyboard-dominated and the lead singer sounds uncomfortably like Ric Ocasek of the Cars! Hope other et'ers didn't mind this little digression. Here's a couple of two-degrees links to keep us on the subject: Philip Glass --- David Byrne [wrote lyrics for two songs on --- Robert Fripp _Songs From Liquid Days_--also sings on Fripp's "Under Heavy Manners"] PG --- David Bowie [Glass has written symphonies --- RF [plays using themes from Bowie's _Low_ and _Heroes_] on _Heroes_] Kevin Holm-Hudson Department of Academic Studies and Composition Northwestern University School of Music 711 Elgin Rd. Evanston, IL 60208 e-mail: kholmhud at nwu dot edu I am starting a society called "Capitalists, Inc" (so that we will not be accused of being Communists); everyone who joins has to show that he has destroyed not less than 100 disks of music or one sound recording device; also everyone who joins automatically becomes President. We will have connections with 2 other organizations, that for the implementation of nonsense (anyone wanting to do something absurd will be financed to do it) and that Against Progress. -- John Cage It is fun to have fun but you have to know how. -- The Cat in the Hat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 11:16:11 From: Scott Hamrick Subject: USA: Not on Great Deceiver set! / Union=Onion Somebody wrote: >While Asbury Park is part of >the "Frame By Frame"-box (CD four), 21st Century Schizoid Man is included >on the "Schizoid Man"-CD. So together with the Providence Show on "The >Grat Deceiver", the whole of "USA" is already available. Wrong! I have heard people (including Fripp) say so many times that USA is mostly available on disc 1 of the Great Deceiver and that Asbury Park's inclusion on Frame by Frame rounds it out. I really haven't sat down to compare each track, but that just isn't the case as far as I can tell. I don't mean to argue, but to educate and dispel a myth: *USA's "Lament" is not on the GD set. *USA's excellent, superior, best-ever live version of "Easy Money," complete with beautiful improv, is definitely not on the GD set. *USA's "Schizoid Man" probably is the same as the one on GD and/or the Schizoid Man single, but with cool distorted vocals (added later?), not available elsewhere. *USA's "Larks' Tongues part two" may or may not be the same recording as on the GD set, but I kind of doubt it as USA's seems to rock more. It's at least a different mix with Eddie Jobson's excellent overdubbed violin (Not better than D. Cross', just different). As far as I can tell, this means that only the excellent "Asbury Park" and "Exiles" (2/6 of the album) are currently available in the exact same formats (with better sound) on the Frame by Frame and the Great Deceiver set respectively. -------------------- Colin wrote: >I got a used Yes CD for $8 >called UNION. . . Unfortunately I only found like three good songs out of 14. Can anyone >recommend a good Yes album. . .? Almost any one other than the one you bought! Start with "Fragile," "Close to the Edge" and "Relayer." Once hearing these, you'll realize that "Union" is best used as a drink coaster! Scott Hamrick ------------------------------ From: "Dave Lane" Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:15:00 -0400 Subject: USA is Greatly Deceptive jim_bricker at claris dot com (Jim Bricker) wrote: >Debunking the USA/TGD myth I've seen this statement made several times: >>While the album "USA" is not availabel as such, most of it was taken from >>the show in Providence in '74. That entire show is included in "The Great >>Deceiver" box, so if you have that, you have most of "USA". > >and ET'ers.... it's just plain w r o n g ! Yes and No. It's not a myth. Remember the title of the Providence disc of The Great Deceiver: "Things are not as they seem...". You're both wrong and you're both right. We had this same discussion a few years back in rec.music.progressive, and the following is based on an article that I posted back then, which you can find, along with the rest of the thread, by using DejaNews. Using the Providence set from the Great Deceiver [GD] and a table of USA, I was able to do an A/B comparison of them by using the tape monitor button to quickly switch back & forth between the two. I'm convinced that all of the tracks on USA are *based* on the same performances included in the Providence set of GD. Here are the similarities & differences, track by track: Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part II starts off with the same crowd noise during the No Pussyfooting intro as on GD, and is obviously the same recording, despite the Eddie Jobson violin overdubs found on the USA version. If you listen very carefully to Lament you'll hear Wetton laugh as he begins to sing on the GD version, but not on USA. On most of the remainder of the track, however, Wetton's vocal inflections are exactly the same on both. I think Fripp pasted in the front section of another performance a la Zappa, something that will be familiar to anybody who owns any of the You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore series. In Exiles, matters become slightly more complicated, and it becomes harder to sync up the two recordings because there's a massively different edit used on USA, but again, Wetton's vocal inflections leave no question that at least significant portions of the track are the same as the GD Providence piece. Asbury Park is of course not included in the GD box, but the version on USA is the same one as on disc 4 of Frame by Frame. Easy Money, like the Exiles track, has lots of differences, but you can tell from the vocals that it's at least partially from Providence. The drums sound different throughout the song, even behind vocal sections that sound exactly the same on both versions, and the improv sections in the middle are not at all alike. I'd guess that there are lots of overdubs used and very different mixes, and USA probably has a middle section from another performance plopped in. With 21st Century Schizoid Man, it's not hard at all to tell that they're both Providence. The main differences are the Jobson violin overdubs that are credited in the USA liner notes, and the fact that the GD version does not have the vocals processed through some sort of 'fuzz' device to give a similar effect as the Lake vocals on the original ITCOTCK version, although you can tell they're the same performance. Conclusion: Excluding Asbury Park, there are NO tracks on USA that are not on the Providence set of GD in some form. --Dave ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #393 ********************************