Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #391 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 391 Sunday, 29 June 1997 Today's Topics: Reunification of the 1969 Band: A Surrebuttal "un reve sans consequence speciale" Adrian's guitar synth Re: Elephant Talk Digest #383 Women's opinions on KC Re: Elephant Talk Digest #389 Re: Elephant Talk Digest #389 some trivia Re: USA John Wetton Biography Mellotron on THRAK/Yes Re: Elephant Talk Digest #389 PFM, Heldon, Magma plug PFM, Un Reve... yhoughts on the image of the crimson king wire//'advice' to dgm Un Reve....... Bozzio, Levin & Stevens Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale stuff Old chaps KC inspired by Philip Glass? Who is that guy? Elephant Talk Digest #385 -Ted White's improvisations FFWD For trade/sell Tony Levin's Cave recording/Wireshock site Fripp Soundscapes at Pine Knob, MI 6/26/97 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- ** Today's top tip: Posters, be cool: please don't lazily hit your "reply" button and let your post have "Re: Elephant Talk #666" as its "Subject". This, as our American chums delight in saying, "sucks swampwater". It tells ET readers nothing! Please take a moment to write a meaningful subject line, like almost all posters remember to do. If your post is worth making, give it a nice title. I *have* to say this stuff, you know. :-) -- Toby -------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:15:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Ruination at aol dot com Subject: Reunification of the 1969 Band: A Surrebuttal Dear RF, Toby and Fellow ETers: I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to the lovely firestorm I started in ET #384 regarding a reunion album by the 1969 band. The postings of drj_saro at neo dot lrun dot com, twhite at logotel dot com, and LHearne at msn dot com in ET#387 were deeply gratifying. So, if you have not weighed in with your vote yet, please do. I would like to preface my surrebuttal to the aforementioned postings with the following, telling quotation from RF's "A Short, Personal History of King Crimson" from the 1996 THRAK world tour program: "If I dislike something and can't hold an adult attitude in front of it, I let it go. Otherwise, to go out of my way to be upset by something I may easily avoid, wastes a lot of time and energy. Life is richer than listening to a record, or going to a show, merely to have an excuse to be bitchy. "I take it as a given that a review tells us more about the reviewer than the subject/object reviewed. A good critic can take us beyond personal values, judgments and perceptions to an insight into the object criticised. If an object is altogether unworthy of discussion, then the critic amuses, humors or entertains us with a witty put-down of the conceits of the artist, and the limitations of his talent. "A critic in Wire recently commented that, despite recent attempts in that magazine to rehabilitate King Crimson, KC "was still a snob's Black Sabbath, no more no less." I learnt nothing about King Crimson from these well-chosen words, but honked with laughter, and, formed an opinion of the critic's capacity for discrimination and reasoned argument." There are many gems in this quotation that even the stuffiest of ETers should be able to glean. One being, I take it, that not all criticism--even the most caustic--need be a bad thing. I admit I wrote my posting in ET #384 entirely to "stir the pot," and drj_saro's and Ted White's acerbic responses were more than I could have hoped for. However, my intent was not to "bash" the band , but to demonstrate that the individual members who made up the original band (apart from RF) no longer have, in my personal view, the je ne sais quoi needed to accomplish artistically anything nearing of the magnitude of KC for the past 17 years, (the posting by mheilbronner at kilstock dot com in ET#388 (q.v.) on Greg Lake's arthritic vocals fortifies my argument). I must say I found the posted rebuttals impassioned, witty, amusing and enlightening. But I think I was a bit misunderstood, and perhaps I have my own feeble communication skills to thank for that. However, William Hearne's comment: "I'm not a musician - I am a music consumer. I really do not care what RF does with his time," to me says it all. Forgive me for taking this too seriously, but, as a consumer and a fan of RF and KC , I DO care about the quality of what my favorite guitarist issues forth, and I especially do not want to see the name of my favourite band associated with the current procession of groups that get their original members together just to cut an album 'to see what it would be like'. In my view, the inspiration for albums of this nature is vapid at best, tends to shrivel quickly and, ergo, suck hugely. Fripp, I know you've got better things to do with your time. In closing let me say that if, as some have posted, RF and the original members of the 1969 band feel compelled to get back together again to record an album--please do. But, please, PLEASE, do not do the consumer, the faithful Crimhead/Fripphead, and the current KC line-up the indignity of calling your effort "King Crimson." May I suggest the following band names: In the Wake of Talent Discipline Global Enema Robert Fripp and the League of Poor Washed-Up Hairies Non-Performance Or in the always catchy names-make-a-group category: Fripp, MacDonald, Lake, Giles and Sinfield Bob, Ian, Greg, Mike and Pete I shall now duck and run for cover. JG Ruination at aol dot com FrippHed at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:53:47 -0700 From: Simon Beauchemin Subject: "un reve sans consequence speciale" Biffyshrew at aol dot com wrote: a famous Crimson bootleg has its title ripped off from Heldon's > > "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale".This of course begs the further question- what th' heck does the title MEAN? I assume it's French, or some such thing. -> It means "a dream without special consequences" and by the way.. is this bootlegs available? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 00:56:27 -0700 From: Simon Beauchemin Subject: Adrian's guitar synth -afn39111%afn dot org at cs dot man dot ac dot uk wrote: Okay, I understand that all those funky noises by Adrian, et all, are made by midi commands sent to synth modules. But how does it get from the string to the midi output. The string tone is detected by a MIDI pickup added on the guitar. There is a different pickup section for each string (as for every pickup) The tone signal is converted by a digital interface. The selected sound is triggered by the interface. :) simple huh? hehe The guitar player in a band i played in had a guitar synth, GEEZ it is sooo facinating. Much better in terms of interaction when it comes to digital sounds. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:38:55 +0000 From: Denis Rodier Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #383 > dumela at nicom dot com (tj) > Subject: Silence? / Tour reaction? > > We have a couple of tunes that start out, sometimes for numerous seconds, > in complete silence (I include solo work also). Why do we have this? Is > there a feeling that we are acquiring while listening to musicians holding > their instruments? Perchance a few crafties could elighten here. > - - - - - - That's just it! If you ever tried to start an improv or jam with musicians you'll notice that rarelly they will listen to the others. By starting out with complete silence it forces them to actually listen to what's going on. It's a good way to make people react to what the others are playing instead of them staying in their bubble and playing their "cool riff" Cheers! Denis Rodier Prog is not dead, it just smells funny. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:19:54 -0400 From: Francois Couture <93039260 at callisto dot si dot usherb dot ca> Subject: Women's opinions on KC About whether women like KC or not, I would like to say this for the record. My wife and I have been married for four years now. When I met her five years ago, I lend her a tape with two KC albums : 'Islands' and 'Larks' Tongues in Aspic'. She's a KC fan since, enjoyed the Thrak show has much as I did, we splitted the cost of 'The Great Deceiver' as we do with all the music we buy and she enjoys it as much as I do. And we just cannot wait to hear the postman ring the door's bell one fine morning and delivering us our Epitaph box set. And she also loves most progressive groups, from Genesis to Grobschnitt and a lot of avant-garde too. There is hope, you know. I have found the perfect musical soulmate. Francois Couture ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:28:31 -0400 From: Francois Couture <93039260 at callisto dot si dot usherb dot ca> Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #389 >Dear e-talk, > I'm a first time writter. #383 stirred my memory. Does anyone know >anything about P.F.M.? I had the record P.F.M. "Cook" years ago. It was on >ELP's Manticore label as I recall. I never knew a darn thing about that >band and I'm still interested. Are P.F.M. CD's available? What's Alan >Holdsworth or Eddie Jobson doing these days? How about Roger Dean? Can you >think of any more "blast from the past" names? Keep up the good work. >Chuck I am not going to do a full Premiata Forneria Marconi biography, don't worry. Let's just say they were (are?) a Italian prog band, the one in fact that made it big outside Italy. The first records, which are the best IMHO, were all in Italian on the 'Numero Uno' label (if memory serves right). Go especially for 'Per un amico'. Then they were signed by Manticore, ELP's label. Two english studio albums were released, 'Photos of Ghosts' and 'The world became the world', both containing alternate versions of songs from their three italian records with words in english by Pete Sinfield. Then came 'Chocolate Kings', their first album to be released only in english, and then 'Cooks', a live one. They took a left turn after that, going into fusion-jazz. For more info, I suggest you go to 'Gibraltar's progressive rock encyclopedia' site. I don't have the address but it is easy to find. Glad I could help. Sorry if some info is incorrect. I am at work and don't have my discography around to help. Francois COuture ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:31:34 -0400 From: Francois Couture <93039260 at callisto dot si dot usherb dot ca> Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #389 >> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:56:40 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com >> Subject: Re: Fripp/Heldon? >> >> Dave Lynch wrote: >> >> > a famous Crimson bootleg has its title ripped off from Heldon's <> > "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale". >> >> It's the other way around. The Heldon LP (from 1978) took its title from >> the Crimso bootleg (which had been around since 1974). > >This of course begs the further question- what th' heck does the title >MEAN? I assume it's French, or some such thing. It is French. It means 'A Dream without any special consequence' or something like that. My english isn't top shape. Francois COuture ------------------------------ From: Martin van Wijk Subject: some trivia Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:47:09 +0200 (MET DST) Some trivia thingies >>that yielded "Providence" and much of _USA_. I recall Fripp (at >>least I think it was him) introducing one piece as "a journey >>through seven states of altered consciousness" or words to that >>effect. Of course, the audience hooted, thinking he was referring >>to drugs, but I suppose he was thinking of something else. > >Have you got The Great Deceiver box set? This includes the entire >Providence gig, and Fripp's introduction to "Improv - A Voyage To The >Centre of the Cosmos". > Is that really Fripp doing the introduction? Is he the one doing the other introductions on the box set too? This may have been discussed already, but i'm just a newby so... When i hear the voice on the box set i can connect it very well to Wetton's smiling face on the Red cover photo and not at all to Fripp's grim face...always though it was Wetton's voice. About women liking KC....the female vocalist in my band is as big a fan as all the guys in the band...and only 19 (20?) years old...an exception probably. What ever happened too Fripp's suggestion to send him good bootlegs that DGM might release? Did he get any good ones, did anyone send anything at all? Don't you agree that 'Later with Jools Holland' (BBC) would be the perfect show for KC to be on? How about a release party for 'The Nightwatch' in Holland? Held in the original Concertgebouw, now that would be cool...and a soundscapes performance on the same day...sorry, just daydreaming..;) Martin ------------------------------ From: "DIETER BRINK" Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:17:24 +100 Subject: Re: USA Richard Begley wrote in ET #389: >I believe one song on "USA" is from another show, but I don`t know which one< I think there are in fact two songs from another show. These two songs were recorded at Asbury Park, NY on June 28th 1974. While Asbury Park is part of the "Frame By Frame"-box (CD four), 21st Century Schizoid Man is included on the "Schizoid Man"-CD. So together with the Providence Show on "The Grat Deceiver", the whole of "USA" is already available. I often wonder why people are looking forward for the re-release of "USA". Maybe there are more differences between the original and the re-release of "USA" than the better sound quality ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:42:07 -0400 (EDT) From: NorthernLn at aol dot com Subject: John Wetton Biography Northern Line Publishers (U.S.) is handling the new book "My Own Time-The Authorized Biography of John Wetton," and thought you might like to know more about it. We have copies of the book available for review, plus the author is available for interviews on the project. Feel free to e-mail Northern Line at NorthernLn at aol dot com to learn more about "My Own Time." You can also reach Northern Line by phone at 610-799-4701, or by fax at 610-799-3295. Sincerely, Northern Line Publishers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:19:04 -0400 (EDT) From: WrongWayCM at aol dot com Subject: Mellotron on THRAK/Yes >Clearly, the sound on the _Thrak_ version of "Dinosaur" is not a mellotron, >but Belew's guitar synth. You can hear this trademark sound all over >Adrian's _Op Zop Too Wah_ and _The Guitar As Orchestra_. To hear the >mellotron, listen to the soft parts before "VROOOM" and "VROOOM VROOOM". Actually that's guitar synth too. Mr. Fripp and Mr. Belew play, using a similar sound, in harmony with each other. So where is the mellotron? Well, this is where I hear it: a very short section of Dinosaur, which is played by Fripp live, the mid section of VROOOM VROOOM that sounds similar to the middle of Red, parts of VROOOM VROOOM coda, parts of Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream. Mind you these instances are usually very brief and quiet but if you listen carefully you will hear it. The Mellotron has a very distinctive, airy, light sound, unlike Belew's and Fripp's synth which is a little more engaging. On a different note, I got a used Yes CD for $8 called UNION. It features many different players from different incarnations of Yes including Bruford and Levin as one rhythm section. Unfortunately I only found like three good songs out of 14. Can anyone recommend a good Yes album, I curious? -Colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:14:09 -0400 (EDT) From: CBurns9740 at aol dot com Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #389 Happy Birthday Ian McDonald. Thank's for the music.!!!! Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:24:25 From: Scott Hamrick Subject: PFM, Heldon, Magma plug >Dear e-talk, >I'm a first time writter. #383 stirred my memory. Does anyone know >anything about P.F.M.? There is an exceptional new PFM website at http://www.sectorel.pt/gaudela/pfm/main.html It has lots of good info on the band, including the band's brand new album. This site is also the home of the PFM mailing list, which has been in operation only a couple of months and is populated by some of the friendliest people on the internet. -------------------------- Another question: >This of course begs the further question- what th' heck does the title >MEAN? I assume it's French, or some such thing The title of Heldon's album "Un Reve Sans Consequence Especiale" means "A Dream Without Reason." This is the only Heldon album I have and it is VERY difficult listening. It has been said to be the birth of "industrial" music. However, I have heard some of their other albums, like "Standby" and "Interface," which are in a similar style, but much, much more interesting. Very heavy, lots of electronics (Moogs and such) with lots of Frippian laser beam guitar. Good stuff. Earlier Heldon music I have heard is softer and shows an obvious "No Pussyfooting" influence. Heldon also shared some musicians with fellow French band, Magma, whose best work is absolutely mindblowing, totally original, and about as good as Crimson's. Only for the adventurous, however. Scott Hamrick Reels of Dreams Unrolled: A Progressive Rock Fanzine http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/8827/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:25:48 -0400 (EDT) From: JEF520 at aol dot com Subject: PFM, Un Reve... In ET #389 Chuck Arcovitch ask about PFM. They were one of the best known (internationally) of a number of good Italian progressive rock bands during the 1970's. The full name of the band is Premiata Forneria Marconi which means "Marconi's Famous Bakery" or something like that. They put out three excellent albums on ELP's Manticore label, 'Photos of Ghosts', 'The World Became the World', and 'Cook' which was a live album from a US tour. The band was not very proficient in English so lyrics were provided by Peter Sinfield. There were also Italian versions of the albums released (not on Manticore). To my mind, their best album was a later one 'Chocolate Kings' which I believe was released in the US on Asylum Records. This one featured a new vocalist who's English was better. The arrangements and production quality were outstanding and I think it stands with the best works of the progressive rock idiom. They put out a few later releases which, unfortunately, tended toward mediocre jazz-rock. I have seen two of their recordings, 'Cook' and 'Chocolate Kings' on CD, released on RCA out of Germany. If you can't find them in the rock section of your record store, try the ethnic music section. That is where I've seen them at the local Tower and Virgin stores. I guess young punk stock clerks these days can't imagine a rock album being in Italian. Other good bands out of Italy at the time include Le Orme and Sensation's Fix. Le Orme had a similar problem with English and recruited Peter Hammill to do the lyrics for their UK release (on The Famous Charisma Label). Perhaps their best album was 'Felona & Sorona' which was sort of a cross between keyboard dominated progressive rock, Italian opera, and existentialist science fiction. There was an Italian language release as well. Sensation's Fix was a low budget but creative band that seemed to pride themselves on being able to do their albums on a home 4-channel reel-to-reel Teac deck. They had several releases, the best of which was 'Boxes Paradise' on Polydore. I've never seen these on CD. So much for the Italian lesson, on to the French. Biffyshrew ask about the title to the KC bootleg "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale". It is indeed French, and means "A Dream Without Special Meaning". Whether this means anything special, I couldn't tell you. Cheers, Jesse Fisher ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:22:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Urizen00 at aol dot com Subject: yhoughts on the image of the crimson king Hi, folks! I'm a first time poster, but I have been enthusiastically following the discussion for months. As a seminary student, I am quite intrigued by the growing religious allusion in Robert Fripp's liner notes. He throws terms like grace, redemption, blessing, etc. around like a theologian. I will comment more on this in the future, as I have many thoughts on the matter, and would like to be specific. What I would like to discuss today is the cover photo on the "Frame by Frame" box set. I would assume that this image is intended in some way to be a statement of what King Crimson is. Even an articulation of the archetype, if you will. Fripp has spoken of King Crimson in such terms, for example, the 1980's- period interview available on the ET website where Fripp relates an experience of seeing King Crimson just off his shoulder. So, I would see this saturnine child as the "man with an aim" that Fripp has spoken of in connection to the origins of the group's name. Stay with me for this leap. I have seen Fripp quote William Blake on occasion, and am myself an amateur scholar of this mystic British poet/ artist. In Blake's illustrated poem"Job", an important element of visual statement is the placement of feet. If the right foot is forward, the character and the situation resulting from that character's action are imaginative, spiritual, and holy. If the left foot is forward, the situation is destructive and sinful. The "crimson king" on the cover of the box set not only has a prominent left foot in a strikingly Blakean pose, but the right foot is entirely obscured!!! I would conjecture that either Bill Smith (the artist responsible for the cover) or Fripp intended this visual reference to Blake as a way of representing how King Crimson is about taking on the voice of darkness, not as an end in itself, but as a means to an end. Thoughts? Eric J. Thorson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:07:49 +1000 (EST) From: j dot keens at rmit dot EDU dot AU (Jeremy Keens) Subject: wire//'advice' to dgm i haven't seen (noticed) it mentioned here, and so was surprised when i picked up a copy of the latest Wire form the newsagent (may, issue 159: as a non-subscriber i wait for the seamail version here in australia) to see on the cover "Robert Fripp: courting the crimson king"..inside is a 6 page article (mainly text) on the subjecy covering a history of crimson plus current activities. some lovely pics, incluiding closeup portraits of a seriousfripp and a laughingfripp. haven't had a chance to digest it all, but well worth it. *------------------------------ and a note to DGM - please*3 don't release all the archival material in one big go - box sets at intervals of about 3 months are probably budgetable. any news on 'gates of paradise' the lot? and don't*3 release various versions of the next KC album: a cd of alternate mixes maybe, but hopefully fripp's suggestion reported here was a brainspasm: it would _look_ like a real fan $ squeeze. but how about a limited release single (mail order to people who have already ordered the box) of the missing 2 tracks from disk 4 - we could stand a tormented mellotron. *------------------------------ and while i'm here - one thing i noticed as different between epitah and deceiver is the crowds: the almost polite clapping at some of the gigs - rather than wild ness of the later incarnation. and as to the date of fillimore, the poster in the epitaph book is presumably right - the dates match the suggested days of the week, which seems about right. JK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:56:59 -0400 (EDT) From: MADELF69 at aol dot com Subject: Un Reve....... Greetings, Been enjoying the G3 posts quite a bit.....I probably should have gone, but am holding out for something a bit more specialized, such as a solo Fripp show....(not holding my breath tho)....in regards to the title "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale", it is French and loosely translates as "A Dream Without Special Meaning" or any variant thereof....it has been in my collection a long time and has been a source of great entertainment over the years....happy Crimso dreams to all......Kev ------------------------------ From: "JP Murphy" Subject: Bozzio, Levin & Stevens Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 14:23:51 PDT Although nothing can compare with KC as a whole, I absolutely love listening to the varied musical tangents of its individual members. I have recently started to listen to more and more of their individual projects and most recently picked up the soon to be released Bozzio, Levin & Stevens CD. This is a great CD! Levin is fantastic, Bozzio rocks and this guy Steve Stevens who I'd never heard of before ain't too bad either. P.S. I am kickin' myself in the butt for missing RF last Sunday on the G3 tour in Boston...even though a co-worker of mine who saw the show thought Fripp was one of the roadies. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:46:29 +0200 From: Michel Vergnaud Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Universit=E9?= de Limoges Subject: Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale Dave Lynch wrote in #389 : >> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:56:40 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com >> Subject: Re: Fripp/Heldon? >> >> Dave Lynch wrote: >> >> > a famous Crimson bootleg has its title ripped off from Heldon's >> > "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale". >> >> It's the other way around. The Heldon LP (from 1978) took its title >from >> the Crimso bootleg (which had been around since 1974). > This of course begs the further question- what th' heck does the title > MEAN? I assume it's French, or some such thing. No, it's not "some such thing" :) Yes, it's French. It means "A dream without any particuliar consequence". Hope it helps. ----------------------------- Michel VERGNAUD I.R.C.O.M. Electromagnetisme Limoges France Tel:05.55.45.72.60 Fax:05.55.45.75.15 ----------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:54:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mopobeans at aol dot com Subject: stuff This is George Korein speaking, from one of the ten zillion addresses which I mail from... Good premonitions about the upcoming Crimson album: 1. Before, Fripp and Belew would get together and work out ideas and then present them to the band. Fripp and Belew have both stated in interviews that this time Trey was included in those meetings. This means Trey may finally get a chance to shine. This warms my heart because on the previous double-trio recordings, Trey has been just doubling Fripp parts and Levin parts to the point where I would almost say he doesn't need to be in the band. Now he may get to play a pivotal part. (ooh! alliteration!) Having heard the "Third Star", I believe that Trey's writing is quite nifty and would add a new element to the band's sound. 2. Fripp, in a recent guitar magazine interview, said that Gunn and Levin would work together on quarter-tone double-stick pieces. That should be interesting! I really liked "Two Sticks" on B'Boom. 3. In "Ask Adrian", Belew said that the gap between the "pieces" and the "songs" would be bridged. This sounds very exciting -- imagine a lyrical version of VROOOM. This could be the song list: piece/song K'POW (piece) piece/song 2 Two Stick Piece song Elevens/Prism Lark's 4!!! (piece) song improv piece/song 3 That would rule! Two songs, two pieces, three piece/songs, an improv, a two-stick song, and a drumfest! If you need a Crimson fix while waiting for the next album, check this out: Fripp said that he and Gunn have been enlisted in a project with the drummer of Ministry. That's 1/3 of Crimson. Also, I got my hands on an album by "Laundry", featuring a Stick player, a guitarist, a vocalist, and Tim Alexander, the drummer of Primus. Tim is an incredible drummer. The band combines aspects of Crimson with aspects of metal-grunge bands such as Tool and elements of Primus. Also, I found a band named Happy Family on the net. I haven't heard them, but all of their reviews say that they have a heavy crimson influence. They even supposedly play a song which uses the intro from Red. They are Japanese. Drums, bass, guitar and keyboards, if I remember correctly. Instrumental. To people who say Fripp is pretentious, egotistical, or whatever: yes, Fripp says many cryptic and sometimes contradictory things. He has strange habits such as playing in near darkness. He is often hostile to fans who meet him. However, forgive him. David Bowie said in 1973 that "not only is this the last show of the tour, it is the last show we'll ever do." which was a total lie. Bowie said in 1989 that he would never play his old songs again. Again, a lie. Fans then say, "Oh, Bowie is so unpredictable. That is what is cool about him." If Fripp said stuff like that, fans say "Fripp is trying to fool us!!! I'm not buying another King Crimson CD" or the like. About the "backstage pass" situation, hear this: at the Crimson concert in Philly (an excellent concert) a woman told me that before Crimson went on, she saw Fripp and waved, or some gesture like that, and Fripp simply raised his hand in response. That's the way he likes it. No talk. He's already heard the stuff about how you like his music. The most mysterious Fripp accusation: that Fripp is greedy, doesn't care about the music, etc.. If he was these things, he would quit Crimson and go start a business. Fripp has said that he makes the most money when Crimson DOES NOT exist. He has said that it costs $30,000 dollars to set up a Crimson rehearsal. A bunch of people said that in an interview before the Philly show, Trey said that KC would three new members. I listened to that show. My friends have tapes of it. He didn't say that. If he did, I believe he was joking: three more members would be the stupidest idea of the century, and also, No other Crimson member has ever mentioned such since. BTW, I watched some video tapes containing KC miscellany: the video for Heartbeat (HORRIBLE!), the video for Sleepless (this one is cool, but Bruford's haircut is shameful), The Noise (THE BEST DRUM SOLO I HAVE EVER HEARD before Indisicipline), A BBC Fripp documentary (it will change your view of Fripp), the video for I Advanced Masked (cool), the video for Big Electric Cat (lots of dumb 80s cideo effects), mid-70s live footage (an incredible improv. Wetton and Bruford are sensational), an 80s soundcheck (horrible quality, but an amazing rendition of Manhattan/Neurotica, complete with thundering Stick), an appearanceon the late-night show "Fridays" (really cool version of Elephant Talk, a not-so good version of "Thela") and last, and probably least, a 1973 Crimson advertisement. "King Crimson. Another innovative album. It's called 'Lark's Tounges in Aspic'." I am sorry that was so long. ------------------------------ From: marco dot passarello at sottovoce dot it (Marco Passarello) Date: 24 Jun 97 16:31:00 -0100 Subject: Old chaps Organization: PeacePoint BBS +39-2-344074 ET> I'm a first time writter. #383 stirred my memory. Does ET> anyone know anything about P.F.M.? I had the record P.F.M. "Cook" ET> years ago. It was on ELP's Manticore label as I recall. I never knew ET> a darn thing about that band and I'm still interested. Are P.F.M. CD's ET> available? What's Alan Holdsworth or Eddie Jobson doing these days? ET> How about Roger Dean? Can you think of any more "blast from the past" ET> names? Keep up the good work. Chuck 1) P.F.M. are alive and well. Some months ago they published a live quadruple retrospective CD, titled "10 Anni Live" (including even some King Crimson covers!). Their new studio CD, "Ulisse", came out just some weeks ago. They even have a very good home page on the Web: just look on http://www.sectorel.pt/gaudela/pfm/main.html and you'll find every information you need about their CDs. 2) Allan Holdsworth is going on with his solo career. His last CD is "None Too Soon", where he plays standards with his trademark style. He's changing record company thrice a year, but he's still one of the best. 3) I'm not sure about Eddie Jobson, but a reunion of U.K. should happen very soon, and will probably include him. 4) Roger Dean is alive and well too. He just did the cover of the last Yes album, "Keys to Ascension", and even the titles of "Blue Sky on Mars" by Matthew Sweet. 5) Other Blasts from the Past? Well, Genesis got a new, very young singer, and a new CD due in August. Steve Hackett just did an orchestral CD for a classical record company. The Yes are lost in their usual wars between members and ex-members, but maybe they'll get back. Emerson, Lake & Palmer are still touring, but not in very good shape. Enough? Hope this helps! Marco --- Blue Wave/RA v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:57:52 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mattias Ribbing Subject: KC inspired by Philip Glass? Who is that guy? Hello. I read in a swedish rock encyclopedia (Bonnniers Rock Lexicon -93) that the 80's version of King Crimson played "rythem based, experimental, minimalistic music inspired by Philip Glass" (translated). Who is Philip Glass? He must be quite a guy if he inspired a band like King Crimson. Can someone please describe his music and name a couple of good recordings with him? Thank you, Mattias Ribbing, Den Klonade Orkestern (Comming soon with a website with free music inspired by bands like King Crimson and Primus) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 21:42:02 +0100 From: Neil Talbott Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #385 -Ted White's improvisations >But how do Mr. Fripp's >Soundscapes fit in? To what extent are they pre-planned? Does he go into >them with any specific ideas/challenges he wishes to explore, or are they >completely a spontaneous response to the place/venue and audience? To what >extent are they structured, and to what extent (on a good day) is Something >Higher being channeled (through that "gate")? I think here that Ted White has more or less answered his own questions about the nature of Soundscapes. I like to think of the analogy of a gardener (a Soundscape gardener?), Fripp plants seeds of sound, waters and nurtures them, stands back and watches them grow, protects them from a hostile environment, prunes back unnecessary growth, takes pleasure in watching the sounds come to full bloom; and thus the music can be pastel, muted, contemplative, or dramatic - full of dangerous colours. Mr Fripp's Soundscapes don't quite fit into any category of improvisations > >In the late 50's the classical composer/conductor Lucas Foss started a >small group of classically-trained musicians to play improvised music - >perhaps the only notable use of improvisation in "classical" music in this century. Well, that would seem to be overlooking Karlheinz Stockhausen, with his aleatoric music and graphs and drawings to allow his performers to improvise (Hymnen, Mantra, Sternklang, and so on...from the 60's and 70's). And John Cage and his pupil Cornelius Cardew. Admittedly this was a reaction against total serialism of pitch, rhythm, harmonic combinations and even timbre, and produced an awful lot of unlistenable music, but when the improvisation worked, it was...wow! well worth tolerating the crap ... but still not as musically satisfying as the Soundscapes and parts of Thrakattak. Thanks for letting me put in my twopennyworth! -- Neil Talbott ------------------------------ From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: FFWD For trade/sell Date: Fri, 27 Jun 97 19:24:00 EST Ok all you fripp-heads, I have a mint condition cd copy of FFWD cd featuring the Orb and Mr. Fripp! If any one would like please let me know, I am willing to sell it or do a trade! (in the US either option outside just the trade one) Keep The Faith (in the Music) Ken Brown (brownkj at imsint dot com) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 09:15:38 +0000 From: Jason Kennedy Subject: Tony Levin's Cave recording/Wireshock site I just received the promo mailer for Tony Levin's "From the Caves of the Iron Mountain" cd and video. Does anyone have either of these yet or know what the pricing is on the video? I checked his web site for info but it hadn't been updated recently, although it had some cool shots of the Crimson members mugging it up for Tony's digital camera. I also stumbled on a web site for what seems to be a band just getting their start called Wireshock. They have links to the ET and EnoWeb sites on it, and their sound samples seem pretty ambient-oriented. If anyone else feels like checking it out, the URL is http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6024 . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 97 13:03:27 UT From: "Pete Gilbert" Subject: Fripp Soundscapes at Pine Knob, MI 6/26/97 We weren't sure that we had tickets until Wednesday. Thanks to other et contributors, we knew that Robert started early, so we arrived at approx. 1715 to find that Robert had begun at 1700. Our seats were in the 8th row along the side wall. There were maybe a dozen or so members of the audience at this point. They dribbled in steadily as 1830 (showtime on the tickets) approached. Most of the audience didn't know what to make of the soundscapes, but there were a fair number of fans in attendance who were thoroughly and respectfully in to it. The security guys allowed us to move up to the third row in front of the stage, once we convinced them that we would be leaving once Robert was finished. At one point, one of the security guys came up to us and asked, "Do you know that that's the guy from King Crimson?" I pointed to my shirt (Soundscapes, 1999) and told him that that's why we were there! He said that he figured that we must know, because we were standing to watch for a while (back when we were in row 8). We talked for a bit, and eventually he wandered off. Robert played until about 1830. He was joined from time to time by a guitar player wearing a funny hat and a 'Partridge Family" t shirt. I had wanted to inquire as to where I would apply to get that job, but later we observed that this fellow was Steve Vai's 2nd guitarist and keyboardist. Dilemma: would playing with Robert be worth suffering through playing with Vai? From time to time a bass guitar from offstage would join in. We think that this was Stu Hamm, given the tapping that occasionally was played. Occasionally, Robert would play some low tones that would cause the speakers to shake and rattle. This would be followed by Robert giving an inquisitive look and grin over to the onstage mixing desk. It was quite something to hear soundscapes through this sound system. Robert would occasionally get up and wander about the stage listening to his creation. Once he got up and walked out into the pavilion out to where the mixing desk was located. On his way back he walked down the aisle next to where I was sitting, and I turned to him and said "Thank you". He nodded and smiled and went back up on stage to continue The ending soundscape got a bit scary and then got the "processed from hell" treatment that has appeared on several discs lately. The sound oscillated from left to right as Robert pressed buttons and spun data wheels on the Eventides. Eventually, Robert gathered up some things from the top of his rack, picked up a guitar and walked off the stage with the loops still running. The crowd applauded rather enthusiastically. The place appeared to be about half full by this point. We moved up to the top of the hill after Robert was done, because we knew that the sound would be very loud. We lasted through about three songs of Satriani's set before calling it an evening. Random thoughts: We were close enough to see Robert's side burns. I had brought my binoculars along, but put them away as we ended up sitting about 40 feet away. I think that I've heard enough guitar solos to last me through the summer. There were no Fripp items for sale, although he was mentioned in the program. The extra guitarist appeared to be trying to goad Robert into soloing, by contributing rather poorly thought out Fripplike runs and such. I thought that he might succeed, but Robert showed admirable restraint. There is no truth to the rumor that some of the staff thought that Robert was Steve Vai's dad. thanks to et members for posting about the soundscapes starting early. Otherwise, we would have missed out. Pete Gilbert ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #391 ********************************