Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #390 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 390 Sunday, 29 June 1997 Today's Topics: USA and Starless Lyrics Zeuhl and Heldon G3/FRIPP Greg Lake's Voice and albatrosses King Crimson US dates G3 Boston 6/23/97, a dream, A vs D For Sale: 2 Bears CDs Tab Program! A Blessing of Tears Kansas/ELP in Atlanta stop it Tower, Schmower... MIDI - questions - Acoustic KC. P.F.M. and Similar Eurock (#389) get real Cale/Fripp/Eno Soundscapes Mellotron for sale How Guitar Synths Read Pitch fripp collaborations That Which Passes / Zoolook Bozzio Levin Stevens Epitaph review in RS(Spice Girl cover) Couple o' comments... VROOOM x4 G3 Review: Hartford CT., 19th of June, 1997 G3 6/18 Definitive Editions, USA, & PFM Fripp Introduces in TGD? G3 in Colorado the USA/ providence debate ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: "Matt George" Subject: USA and Starless Lyrics Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 15:48:11 -0700 Two questions for all Elephant Talkers, 1) Does anyone know just definitively where the bulk of USA was recorded? Fripp (and others) have suggested Providence and claim that all of USA is now available. I'm certain that it (excluding Schizoid Man) wasn't the Providence gig; either Fripp deliberately lead us astray or has simply mixed the two recordings up in some way; I know now that it also wasn't the NYC Central Park gig (I thought it might have been this since the sleeve indicates that the whole album was recorded by the NYC-based Record Plant); I suspect that this is Asbury Park. The excellent version of Easy Money sounds very similar to the version "it is for you but not for us...." on The Great Deceiver, but is clearly not it. Since I hadn't heard USA for an extended period of time, I mistook this version for the Gr. Deceiver version. Does anyone have a clue? also, 2) Just exactly what ARE those earlier alternate lyrics to the two versions of Starless on The Great Deceiver? I've been able to decipher some of the words, but others are problematic and ET doesn't list them in the lyrics for Red. They're also missing from the ET archives. I actually find these lyrics far more imaginative and evocative than those which ended up on the album. If the "double trio" decides to do this one, have Belew sing the earlier lyrics.....they rhyme better! Thanks, Matt George "The intellect strikes up the tune, and the will must dance to it...." --|| Schopenhauer bmgeorge at pacbell dot net p.s. Also, How about the lyrics to good old Doctor D., the missing link? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:32:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Lynch Subject: Zeuhl and Heldon I've had a lot of email requests about the Zeuhl mailing list and Heldon, so if Toby doesn't mind I'll furnish the info here, as it seems to be of interest to a great many Crimson fans.. Zeuhl is an extremely intense Carl Orff-like music pioneered by Magma; I don't think Heldon are strictly speaking Zeuhl, though there are extremely strong Fripp influences, especially in their lead guitar player, Richard Pinhas. It can be subscribed to by mailing to petidomo at magma dot uerj dot br; I got this info from the Magma webpage at http://members.aol.com/sleeplessz/index.htm. Hope This Helps. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:18:32 -0400 From: Scott dot Ziegler at orps dot state dot ny dot us (Scott Ziegler) Subject: G3/FRIPP JUST ATTENDED THE G3/FRIPP SHOW AT HARTFORD CT. JUNE 19TH. IM GLAD FRIPP KNEW THE CONCERT STARTED AT 7:30 PM. THATS PROBABLY WHY HE WAS ALREADY ON STAGE WHEN WE ARRIVED AT 7:10 PM, THANKS ROBERT. I SAY FRIPP WAS ON STAGE BECAUSE THAT IS TRUE HE WAS, BUT HE WASNT PLAYING HE WAS JUST STANDING AROUND DOING NOTHING AND LETTING HIS TAPE LOOP DO ALL THE WORK, THANKS ROBERT. FORTUNATELY FOR US ROBERT DID JOIN THE FINALE WITH SATRIANI/VAI/SHEPPARD JAMMING ON "RED HOUSE" "A GUITAR KILLED MY MAMA" & "YOU REALLY GOT ME" YEAH ROBERT YOU REALLY GOT ME WONDERING WHY EVEN BOTHER. SO IF YOU WANT TO SEE FRIPP BETTER GET THERE EARLY. BY THE WAY THE MEADOWS IS A VERY COOL PLACE TO SEE & HEAR CONCERTS. [ Yikes. Shouting! Maybe he was listening to THRaKaTTCK at the time. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:20:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Arthur Thomas Andrews IV Subject: Greg Lake's Voice and albatrosses Greg Lake's voice these days has gone down the tubes. I also saw ELP last summer and I can attest first-hand. I heard that after the whole ELP thing cooled down in the 80's, he took up smoking (he must have taken up eating too, because he's put on a few pounds). Now he sounds more like George Thorougood than his former choir boy - esque self. Another good reason that the early crimson should not reunite is the out of date quality of the music. I love ITCOTCK, don't get me wrong, but hearing it performed in the late 1990's by some now-prestigious musicians in their later years would be an embaressment. The innocence of singing about "waving silver wands to the night-birds song" is gone. This reminds me of an interview I read of Pink Floyd's David Gilmore. The interviewer asked David if he would play songs like "Echoes" on the upcomming tour. David laughed and said it wouldn't be proper for a guy in his mid-forties singing about albatrosses and ambassadors of morning, he now could only relate to more human things. How's that for a dose of reality? -Art Andrews ata5d at virginia dot edu http://watt.seas.virginia.edu/~ata5d/art.html ------------------------------ From: "Cline, Dana" Subject: King Crimson US dates Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:35:51 -0600 I was glad to see that King Crimson was coming to Morrison, Colorado, on July 18th. However, after attempting to get tickets, I find that 1) that date at that location has the Indigo Girls, and 2) no one at the ticket place ever heard of them. So be advised that the July 18th concert is non-existent. I tried to find out more information from Pollstar, but they have _no_ listings for King Crimson. I then tried to contact their managers, but the link for Opium in the UK has a 404 error. I left voice mail at the Los Angeles office so we'll see if they get back to me. In the meantime, if you know of any revised dates for Colorado, please post to the web page or email me at dcline at tanstaafl-software dot com Thanks! Dana Cline ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:20:02 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: G3 Boston 6/23/97, a dream, A vs D Dear Crimsoneers - (Like buccaneers but use midi swords and opposed to anologue -although sometimes heavy). Last night I took my 6 year old to the G3 show at the Harborlights Pavillion in Boston. We arrived early (thanks to the ET tip) and Robert was already playing. I was a wonderful time. The soundscapes were dark and foreboding as if to match the stormy weather we encountered on route. The crowd for Fripp was not a full house as most were there for the other guitarists but the setting and the mood fostered an interested if not at least polite crowd. We arrived about 6.00 and Robert played until ~ 7:30. My daughter said it sounded t one point like whales, a mother and a baby swimming then being chased by a large ship, I could see that. I thought of a virtual trip through an alien landscape with deep ravines and caverns and an ice castle with spires shimmering in the darkness. I wish it would have gone on longer. We stayed for KWS and after Steve Vai'92s opening we left as my daughter was getting tired. All in all a very pleasant experience. The night before I had a weird dream and woke up in the middle of the night feeling like I was hallucinating. I was at a seminar, like Guitar Craft, being taught by Fripp. We were doing a meditation that would as Robert described "lead us to a level of higher consciousness". We had to leave some "old habits" behind in a cup. Mine was a cup of fat (I am somewhat over my ideal weight) and my wife was there and she had a cup of change (coins?- She is not a miser or financially impaired.) To activate the process we had to recite the Mentats creed from Dune ""It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion." I awoke in a state of altered something or other and after a trippy visit to the loo went easily back to sleep. Must have been bad dates? Very strange! The current debate of Analogue vs Digital has merits from the Stack vs the virtual stack POV , but I can hinestly say it has never bothered me enough at a KC show as to detract from the experience. Maybe it's only when you play at 11!. - Martin= " Analogue Good, Digital Bad " - Frankenstein " it's not whether you use (insert technology or other category here) or not, it's whether you chose to conceal or reveal" - Bono " A fool with a tool is just a faster fool" - John Wall ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 12:57:36 -0800 From: Stephen Arthur Subject: For Sale: 2 Bears CDs Hi! I have the following Bears CDs for sale (Adrian Belew's old '80s band): The Bears Rise and Shine They are both in excellent condition and excellent music and happen to be signed by all the band members except Belew (Rob Fetters, Bob Nyswonger and Chris Arduser signed them. In fact Chris the drummer said "I don't even have copies of these CDs!" at the signing). If you are interested in buying these e-mail me at sarthur at ucla dot edu and my mini-career as a ruthless business-man will come to an end. steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 20:51:34 UT From: "Jonathan Korein" Subject: Tab Program! There is now a tabulature program available which allows you to notate rhythms and do other neat tricks! I am currently in the process of downloading it from http://home.nordnet.fr/~dgros/index_en.shtml Dig it! (but don't bury it) If a crimson member is reading this, I have a request: A double-trio King Crimson Barber Shop! I haven't even heard the original, but just from the description it sounds hilarious! Imagine, the double trio coming on stage, forming a semi-circle around the mic, saying, "I'm Pat, I'm Trey, I'm Bill, I'm Tony, I'm Bobby, I'm Belew" forming a six part harmony, and then singing "We're King Crimson, sorry about that ten-year break!" Then they leap to their instruments and the usual arse-kicking proceeds. I think that would the highlight of the show. Better yet, bring back "Rodney Toady"! Rodney rocks! How about a medley of "Elevens" and "Prism" on the next album? How about a Gunn/Levin duet? Improvs improvs improvs! And I mean "When I Say Stop, Continue", I DON'T Mean "ThrakAttak". I think I may have already said the following, but no one has answered: Does anyone know what the noise in the beginning of Schizoid Man is? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:55:21 -0400 From: Chris Mills Subject: A Blessing of Tears so i'm listening to fripp's "a blessing of tears", the soundscape disc with the thoughtful & moving liner notes about the death of his mother. my 2.5-yr-old daughter walks into the room, looks at the speakers and gets that interested look on her face, like she's puzzling something out. "like the music?" i ask. "i do." "what do you like about it?" "it's sad." "you're right. it DOES sound sad." "why is it sad?" "because the man who made the music misses his mother, and he wants us to know how he's feeling." "where did his mama go?" do i get into it with her? life, death, eternity, the whole bit? no. i chicken out. "she left because she had things to do. she had to go someplace," i suggest. "i'm sure his mama will come back. the man shouldn't cry." ------------------------------ From: "Tenney, Robert Wayne" Subject: Kansas/ELP in Atlanta Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:46:06 -0400 I remember someone talking about Greg Lake's voice at the Kansas/ELP show in Atlanta on June 16. I was there and saw the whole the whole thing first hand also. First Kansas came on and played a phenomenal set (very hard-hitting), then there was a short break for ELP to set up. They came out started to play about two songs, then ran into what LAKE said was "technical difficulty". After a short 10 minute break and an apology they continued with a little more togetherness. During ELP's set I sat there thinking about how much more powerful Kansas was, until the encore. During the encore, Keith Emerson attacked this "organ on a rocker". This was pretty spectacular seeing Keith end up under the organ still playing it. Then Karl Palmer had a spectacular drum solo. He left some of us wondering how did he make that sound on a drum? But as for Greg Lake, I will have to agree with the fellow ETer who said that Lake did not overly impress the hell out of me. Now don't get me wrong I love ELP and Lake era Crimson, but maybe a reunion tour with Lake fronting the vocals might not be the best. But really who's to say without the reunion actually happening. He could have been just having a bad night in Atlanta. You know that does happen. ************************************************************************ ********** Rob Tenney e-mail: tenneyr at mail dot ecu dot edu homepage: http://ecuvax.cis.ecu.edu/~optenney/home.html ************************************************************************ ********** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:17:52 -0400 (EDT) From: dumela at nicom dot com (tj) Subject: stop it I saw _The Ehipanys (aka Da Poetic terrorists)_ last night. They manage to make quite a sound seeings how they never tune their instruments. Before opening the 1st set they announced that they are not looking for a guitarists, a bassist, or a drummer . During an insidious unapologetic solo they confessed to having no interest in departing, at any price,with their respective CD collections, bootlegs, much less their mint condition lps. I bullied my way backstage after the show to get their www.page but no amount of begging or bribery (free tuning lessons) could convince them that giving it out publicly would not be a potentially dangerous act. We discussed with much aplomb about KC as a time series and willingly agreed that liking any time period (but particularly all) was a common link to mental serenity. Darn my brain, I almost forgot that they ended the show by burning up a mellotron. I love the smell of melting tape in the evening. "...it's a full two and one half blasphemy, and YES Bob he hit it!" dumela at nicom dot com The environmental revolution will not be resplendent in divergance. Twenty three % of greenhouse gases created by 4.5% of the world's people. Have you hugged your bike today? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:54:29 -0400 From: ssmith at knittingfactory dot com (Steve Smith) Subject: Tower, Schmower... Brian Workman wrote: >I finally got my copy of Epitaph. I made two phone calls to local stores >of two major chains. I can summarize my search as a short joke: > >Q: What's the difference between Tower Records and The Wherehouse? > >A: Wherehouse: "I'm sorry sir, I don't have a release date for that >yet." > > Tower: "We have six in stock." Ummmm, that second line should actually read, "We have six according to The Computer." But can they tell you if it's actually there, or anything about it? I went to Tower not so recently having been told that "B'Boom" was in fact in stock, according to the The Computer. But could anyone in the store find it? No. I went to Tower recently looking for something that had already been released by its label but evidently hadn't reached stores yet. The clerk said that there was one copy on order but hadn't arrived yet, according to The Computer. The record is on Cyber Octave, a new branch of the Higher Octave new age label, so out of curiosity I asked where the disc in question would be located. "It's going to be in the new age section when we get it." The record in question was the new album by Banyan, featuring Stephen Perkins of Porno for Pyros, Nels Cline, Mike Watt (Minutemen / fIREHOSE) and Money Mark (Beastie Boys). The one Rolling Stone was going to have the impact of the first King Crimson album, remember? (It doesn't BTW.) Sound like new age? Tower is not that much better than Wherehouse, it just has more floor space. Buy Discipline direct if you can. End of sermon. Steve ssmith at knittingfactory dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 10:32:54 EST From: "Mark Jordan" Subject: MIDI - questions - Acoustic KC. Hi all ETers Someone wrote in >Okay, I understand that all those funky noises by Adrian, et all, are >made by midi commands sent to synth modules. But how does it get >from the string to the midi output. >Okay, say Ade hits an A (A is for Ade). How does the synth >understand that it is an A? What does it look for? In Adrians(and Roberts) case I'm pretty sure they use the Roland Midi guitar pickups. These are an extra pickup usually mounted near the bridge of the guitar that picks up the string vibration, transfers that to an external box which then does a pitch to midi note conversion. This box then sends the MIDI information to the synth modules. There are some othe MIDI controllers that look like guitars but are just controllers. Yamaha, Stepp, Synthaxe and Starr Switch are some. These are dedicated MIDI controllers that use the string contacting the fret to sense the note information. They all work slightly differently but there is plent of info around if you have a look through the usual guitar mags etc. Alan Holdsworth is probably the most renowned for the use of these sort of controllers. If anybody else wants to add some to this or correct me please go ahead. I'm pretty amazed that guitar synth controllers haven't made more of an impact in prog rock. Chuck Arcovitch wrote >What's Alan Holdsworth or Eddie Jobson doing these days? Alan Holdsworth is still breaking stylistic and guitaristic boundaries. He recently released and album of jazz standards called None to Soon which is worth a listen. His previous album to that was Hard Hat Area which is absolutely awesome. Very different sort of Jazz/Prog. There is dedicated Alan Holdsworth Web site called Atavachron. Look it up. To all ETers in fact you really should give Alan a listen. Suggested albums are Metal Fatigue, Wardencliffe Tower and Secrets. Alan was also in Bill Brufords band "Bruford". Email me if you want more info as I am a big fan. Eddie Jobson is recording a solo/UK album at the moment which is the last news I found on the ITDON web page. On the unplugged line, I believe the tunes from the 80's era Gamelan style and some of the current stuff (like People) would probably translate OK. Maybe the guys I sent the 3 OF a Perfect Pair TAB to could try it. The solo's would be hard though. Note much sustain in an acoustic, but maybe if you had an Ebow it would work. Has anyone tried an Ebow on an acoustic guitar? Regards to All Mark Jordan mjordan at awb dot com dot au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 21:53:49 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Organization: Cognosys Corp. Subject: P.F.M. and Similar Eurock (#389) Chuck Arcovitch asked about distribution information on P.F.M. I highly recommend Wayside Music, a direct distributor out of the DC area, and its Cuneiform label. Wayside has a phenomenal selection of 70's era European indie rock items, and many more since, including numerous releases from Italy. You'll find them on the Web at http://members.aol.com/Cuneiform2/cuneiform.html The Wayside online catalog is also enormously helpful in exploring new listening opportunities, with terrific narrative descriptions and comparisons to other bands -- a fun read, too! Plus, they've got several interesting links to European sites closer to the artists, including Chris Cutler's Re Records (of Henry Cow/Art Bears fame). Best of all, they're still independent -- so you're giving your trade to another human being, not some faceless corporate octopus. Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 19:06:32 -0700 From: Jonah Stein Organization: Barron Communications Group Subject: get real Enough speculation about what KC should do, who has what influence in the band, and who they should collaborate with. I have been a fan for 12 years. If I had the talent or ability to play like they do, I would form my own project, write the music, and play it. Let's get to important stuff: Are their any tour dates for the US in 97? Does anyone out their trade KC tapes? Particularly 74, 82, and 84? Any word on a live video (Laser Disc!) from the last double trio tour? -- Jonah Stein ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 18:13:00 -0700 From: enderle Subject: Cale/Fripp/Eno All of this Cale-talk got me to recall the Kevin Ayers/Cale/Eno/Nico collaboration, "June 1, 1974". With a little help from Messrs. Mike Oldfield and Robert Wyatt, they generate a sound that hasn't been heard since. For diehard fans only, this "one off" is truly entertaining and vaguely reminiscent of the Soft Machine, from whence most of these folks got started. On another subject, I just rec'd the Live in Japan 95 VHS KC video from PossProd. After one viewing, I greatly regret not having ordered the laser disk. Awesome...it generates some great memories of a tour that stands at the top of the list. I was fortunate enough to see that lineup of KC here at the Paramount theater. The most amazing show, if only for the fact that the entire audience sat stock still, almost as if in rapture, for the entire program. Frank Enderle Seattle ------------------------------ From: ernie at pananet dot com (Ernesto Schnack) Subject: Soundscapes Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:11:52 -0400 Hi there, I'm more or less new to the world of Fripp, and I'd appreciate it if someone could explain to me about Soundscapes. Most importamtly, what's the concept behind it? And is it composed or improvised? And finally, is the last track on Sylvian&Fripp's 'The First Day' a Soundscape? thanks a lot Ernesto Schnack ernie at pananet dot com ------------------------------ From: Taylor & Monica Subject: Mellotron for sale Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 05:40:45 +0000 Someone in the Seattle Times classifieds is selling a Mellotron Mark V for $8000. Sorry, I don't have the number with me. But the ad appeared in the Monday, June 23 Seattle Times, classified section 486. They say "VERY RARE." Doesn't RF own more than anyone else, and he only has 4? or is it 6? anyways, out of my price range. Taylor ------------------------------ From: Paolo Valladolid Subject: How Guitar Synths Read Pitch Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:42:18 -0700 (PDT) > Okay, I understand that all those funky noises by Adrian, et all, are made > by midi commands sent to synth modules. But how does it get from the string > to the midi output. > > Okay, say Ade hits an A (A is for Ade). How does the synth understand that > it is an A? What does it look for? The basic idea is to read the frequency of each guitar string. An easy way to do this is to read the number of times the guitar string's waveform crosses the zero line in a certain time interval. The tricky part is in filtering out the noise introduced by the pick and other harmonics. There are more sophisticated methods for reading the frequency such as fast Fourier transforms but I won't get into that.... Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado at waynesworld dot ucsd dot edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Art Keuling" Subject: fripp collaborations Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 23:59:18 -0600 Don't know where I've been sending my notes, but I'd like to see Fripp, Eugene Chadbourne, Henry Kaiser, Fred Frith, Belew, and somehow Sylvain singing over it all together. Cale and Fripp could be a new era in music. Wouldn't it be cool if Albert Collins the ice man could be in there ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 02:05:13 -0400 (EDT) From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: That Which Passes / Zoolook Purchased Fripp's "That Which Passes" Soundscapes CD this weekend and it just hit me what this sounds most like to me: Jean-Michel Jarre's Zoolook, specifically the beginning of the first track, "Ethnicolor". Just play this after listening to "A Time to Die" from "That Which Passes". What's ol' Jean-Michel up to these days anyway? Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:55:44 -0400 (EDT) From: SteveM at pluto dot njcc dot com Subject: Bozzio Levin Stevens Has anyone else out here heard this CD yet? I must say, I'm impressed! Steve ------------------------------ From: vince Subject: Epitaph review in RS(Spice Girl cover) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:57:58 -0500 (CDT) The new Rolling Stone reviews Epitaph(spoiler-3 1/2 stars). I'm much too lazy to type it in so borrow a copy. There is also a mention of a KC influence in the main review, but I can't remember the band name. Gee, what a lame post. vince ------------------------------ Subject: Couple o' comments... Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 09:51:14 -0700 From: jim_bricker at claris dot com (Jim Bricker) Good day all.... Debunking the USA/TGD myth I've seen this statement made several times: >While the album "USA" is not availabel as such, most of it was taken from >the show in Providence in '74. That entire show is included in "The Great >Deceiver" box, so if you have that, you have most of "USA". and ET'ers.... it's just plain w r o n g ! On USA, Asbury Park goes straight into Easy Money, which segues to an improv after the second verse. On TGD, the Providence show does not include Asbury Park, Easy Money contains a much different introduction (with JWetton laughter), AND it segues into the improv "Providence" after Easy Money is complete. 21CSM is different too. The ending in USA is more drawn out. Mellotron It's been stated previously that Robert's mellotron contributions to the THRAK CD are limited to the intros to VROOOM and VROOOM VROOOM. The 80's Crimso live While Robert has said that Adrian is mixing the '84 Canada KC tapes for release, I hope that he plans to dust off tapes of the Savoy show in '81 and release that too. I know others here have requested the same. My question to the masses is: would it be preferable to see a box set a la TGD of 80's music, or a CD release per tour (ie. Savoy, Frejeus[sp?], Canada would be separate releases)? Thanks for the G3 reviews all. I hope this results in new customers to DGM and Crimso converts. Regards to all, Jim Bricker, San Jose CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 12:49:18 EDT From: Mike Stack Subject: VROOOM x4 Hi there. Heard rumor yesterday of a new KC box coming before the end of the year, called _VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM_. 4CDs according to my source, two audio from the double trio lineup's live vid, and I heard one studio. Anyone know anything? Also, random sidenote-- as women into Crimson is a discussion. I met a young lady from this list at the Epitaph signing in NYC. And my girlfriend likes them, as does her best friend. So that's three at least. :) mike ------------------------------ From: "Mascarini, Rick (CORP)" Subject: G3 Review: Hartford CT., 19th of June, 1997 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:18:40 -0400 Firstly, let me warn folks to get to the shows as early as possible if you wish to experience Robert's Soundscape performance. I suggest as the gates open to whatever performance space you're attending. Secondly, if you don't want to spoil your experience, read no further. Thirdly, the review: We (my wife and I) traveled from Saratoga NY to Hartford CT during the afternoon thinking (no, knowing) that we could miss Robert's performance. We arrived at 4:30PM with plenty of time to spare. Our tickets stated the show was to start at 7PM - I asked a parking attendant what time the gates opened - 5:30PM he told us. Enough time for a quick ride through Hartford to find a coffee shop. A bonus, Coffee and Bagels (with our favorite Humus topping) fit the bill. 5:25PM back the Meadows Music Center and standing at the entrance we could hear Robert starting a 'Scape' up. Gates opened and onward to our seats. About 12 rows back, dead center from the stage. Robert is off to our left standing next to his guitar rig talking to a guitar tech for one of the other bands, who is tuning/repairing someone's instrument. People are now starting to mill in - not many, everyone thinks the show is starting at 7PM. Every now and then, Robert picks up one of two guitars and adds more to the loop or morphs it a bit more. There appeared to be some technical problem whenever Robert tried to use certain effects like panning w/Delay: the sound system would overload the soundscape causing tremendous distortion - it was to plague the performance throughout the day. Robert would play for short periods of time then put the guitar down and walk off to the side of the stage to take the sound in, talk with stage personnel, have a drink and survey the audience (what there was of one.) There probably wasn't more than one hundred people there. At one point I believe he was talking w/ Bill Forth (Ten Seconds fame) as he is acting a tour manager for Robert during the G3 tour of the US. One amusing item (at least from our point of view - probably not from Robert's) was during a part where a new guitar part was being added to the loop, Robert stopped and moved toward the front of the stage to kindly ask two maybe three security guards who were talking up a storm to move their discussions elsewhere. This appeared to have put them off guard and they did stop for a short period of time. But they persisted and moments later, Bill Forth walks out in front of the first row of seats and again, asks if they would take it somewhere else. After what appeared to be some very interesting discussions/looks between the guards, Robert and Bill Forth, they finally moved and went their own ways. Robert then sat back down and applied more sound to the 'scape'. Now this went on until about 7:25PM until finally Robert picked up his personal belongings, a guitar and left the stage to a small round of applause. By this time the crowd had grown to 7-8 hundred and most were unaware of what just took place during the preceding two hours. Fourthly, the music: Such splendor hearing these soundscapes live !! They take on a form all their own. We put our feet up on the seats in front of us and just let our thoughts take us. So peaceful at times, so terrifying at others and everything between. During parts of the performance we'd walked around to gauge the sound and effect from different points in the amphitheater. Robert would build up walls of sound from chords played in rapid picking fashion across his guitar then allow the delay to transform them into washes of voice-like whispers. Similar, yet different to various soundscapes that are available through DGM. Overall, minus the one technical problem I mentioned earlier (and the interesting Security/Performer interlude) an outstanding two hours of guitaring ! During each of the G3 performances (Sheppard, Vai and Satch) Robert could be seem standing in the wings bopping along to a song or two from each performer's set. Joe Satriani's set being the most interesting of the three (main G3) performances given was quick to introduce the main principles, including Robert, for the encore - a romp through blues based guitar club band mainstays: "Goin' Down", "You Really Got Me" "Red House" and "My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama." Robert coped the good 'ol Hammond B3 organ parts, quite tastefully I might add - throwing the audience for a 'loop' (no pun intended!) - and adding a few surprises in as well. At times a bit difficult to hear in the mix, but still fun and all seemed to be having a grand time. Finally, a conclusion. See the soundscape performance for yourself - a personal moving experience and one I wouldn't have missed. Be sure to arrive early enough as we did, like I said, I knew (a feeling) we had to get there early. I will make a point to see future performances of Robert's, whatever the setting. It's a matter of trust. Regards, Rick Mascarini Rick Mascarini GE GSO/Information Delivery Services Voice & Fax: 8*235.5187, 518.385.2394 ------------------------------ From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" Subject: G3 6/18 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:12:36 -0400 (originally written and distributed to a few friends, I have edited for ET simply because I seem to have had a slightly different experience from that of some others) After reading the ET report of the possibility of a "My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama" to include Robert Fripp, I made a solo kamikaze run down to the Electric Factory in Philadelphia for the G3 show. The following is a brief (?) synopsis of events: 6:10 p.m.: after successfully battling rush hour traffic, made it to the parking lot of the venue. I could already hear Fripp's "whirring, beeping and bleating". 6:20 p.m.: I entered the venue - an old, dirty warehouse which looked every bit of a former electric factory. Fripp was stage right, working his magic. I planted myself in front of the sound board and tried to chill. Fripp was playing a soundscape reminiscent of "A Blessing of Tears". It was difficult to access the music as there were so many distractions (people ignoring the music, whistles, hoots, hollers, and various conversations by those who evidently weren't as appreciative of Mr. Fripp's soundscape as was I). Occasionally Fripp would get up and walk up-stage right and stand, listening to the developing music. This was usually met with a cheer from those disinterested audients who thought he was finished. Only through sustained effort was I able to close my eyes and focus on the music (since very little in Mr. Fripp's life is random or arbitrary, perhaps one of his goals in playing G3 is to teach us, through discipline, to hear the music through the noise?). His soundscape ended in a loud, dark, climax at about 7:10. 7:20 p.m.: The Kenny Wayne Shepherd Band takes the stage. My notes read "Kid. Look at my hair, look at my clothes, look at me go!" He is young and talented. But it was, to me, standard blues fare. He is still quite young - it should be fun to listen to him grow. He played until about 8:00. 8:20 p.m. (approximately): Steve Vai (and his band) take the stage (my notes indicated Joe Satriani - having never seen either, I confused them). Quotes from notes: "Poser metal...loud - but pretty good tricks. Funky bass w/keyboard (attached) Growling guitar - out there! Fucking loud but good. Sitar (sounding) rhythm guitar. Nice tones on Satriani (sic) - too much posing/behind head/teeth, etc." At times I was surprised how much it sounded like live Zappa jams (that made sense after I figured out to whom it was I was listening), only uglier and more aggressive. He seemed like a real character - I was thinking that it must have been a chore for Zappa to keep him under control. All in all, I really liked his performance. I particularly liked Mike Kennealy - his second guitarist (also a Zappa alumnus). He finished by 9:20 or so. 9:40 p.m. (approximately): Joe Satriani takes the stage - three piece band with guitar, bass and drums. "Hard Dregs, good bass - many tricks." The Dregs reference is to Steve Morse's 70/80s band Dixie Dregs. Satriani has a much harder but strangely similar sound. And Satriani has every guitar trick in the book - but seems to use them to get specific musical results rather than to amaze the kiddies. They rocked - really good bass solo too. They finished their set around 10:40, which leads too... The All-star Jam: I was standing to the left of the mixing board, Satriani came out, introduced Kenny Wayne Shepherd, then Fripp - who was apparently sitting up-stage right in the darkness - and I couldn't see him because of the stage curtains. I immediately raced to the right side of the audience so I could clearly see him. Vai came out and they broke into an upbeat bluesy number. Fripp was obviously having trouble with his guitar - he and his tech worked attempting to figure it out. Apparently he was supposed to take a turn with the leads, but his guitar aint doin' nothin'. Steve Vai looked over and Fripp threw his arms out to the side with a look that said "It don't fuckin' work!" (or words to that effect). Next comes the moment which inspired me to make the road trip - "My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama". Mike Kennealy came out to help on vocals. It was a great jam. Fripp sat and tried to play, but it was obvious that nothing was happening. By the end of the song he had taken off his guitar and stood in place swaying to the music. When the song was over, Fripp was clapping enthusiastically towards the band - an overt gesture which basically said "oh well, I guess I couldn't do anything, but I appreciate the fact that you guys rocked". He was behaving perfectly considering the time and place. The final song of the night was "Red House" - sans Fripp. Without an axe to grind, he stood on stage swaying to the music, occasionally clapping along. Perhaps the best moment was when Steve Vai looked over to Fripp, Fripp indicated that his axe was on the fritz, and Vai held out his guitar for Robert to play. Fripp waved him off, and I immediately dismissed all of Vai's on-stage excesses and antics - he is a nice guy. Then I immediately ran to the concession booth (which was Frippless, BTW) and bought the shirt that said "That Stevie Vai is such a nice boy." My ears were still ringing the next day, the show wasn't always my cup of tea, but all in all, I am glad I went. And through a simple gesture of kindness, I have a new musical friend in Steve Vai. ------------------------------ From: Ted White Subject: Definitive Editions, USA, & PFM Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:49:48 -0400 In #388 Leon V. wants to know about Definitive Editions of STARLESS and RED. They're out there, Leon; the original Crimson catalog was updated on CD with Definitive Editions pretty much all at the same time, and all are thus identified. (The D.E. of ISLANDS is missing the final coda - the orchestral rehearsal sequence - which is why that's a "bonus track" on FxF.) I was amused by Colin's list of lps and their prices - especially the GILES, GILES & FRIPP for $50.00! I remember when I first heard of it the only version available was a boot (with "Cat Food/Groon" as added tracks), which I grudgingly bought. Within the same month the import bins were flooded with British (import) copies of the album - some five years or more after its release - and, just before I bought one of those, I bought a used copy of the US release! In any event, it's absurd to pay $50 for a copy now unless you're a vinyl purist (poor fools) - the latest CD version (US) even has added bonus tracks. In an editorial reply, Mike Dickson mentions having "a Mellotron demo disk from the late sixties." Mike, I'd really like to get a copy (on tape) of that disk (I assume you don't want to sell the actual disk). What can I do for you in exchange? (Assuming you're willing.) (If you want to respond directly, you can delete this paragraph from posting - I don't have your own e-mail address.) In #389, Richard Begley points out that USA is drawn from concerts largely found on THE GREAT DECEIVER. But, Richard, USA is not a true live concert album, and it differs from actual concert recordings in one important respect: Eddie Jobson went into a studio and overdubbed (replaced) David Cross's violin work. I'm curious to see if USA II is the same, or "restored" to the original concert performances. Chuck Arcovitch asks about PFM. All the 70's albums by PFM (an Italian band) are on CD - Italian CDs, mostly (also some Japanese). The first four (which precede COOK) are all well worth getting. The first two are in Italian. The third, PHOTOS OF GHOSTS, uses remixed material from the first two, with new English lyrics by Pete Sinfield. THE WORLD BECAME THE WORLD is the English version of the 4th album, which is somewhat different in the Italian version (one different track; Italian lyrics). After that PFM began pursuing a jazzier sound with CHOCOLATE KINGS, JET LAG, and PASSPARTU. The English versions of all but PASSPARTU came out in the US/UK on Manticore or Elektra as lps. COOK was a live album recorded during the US tour, which I caught at Shady Grove Music Fair (Maryland). If you like mellotrons, you'll like PFM. (For that matter, if you're into progressive rock, you should explore 70's Italian "Pop.") ------------------------------ From: Mark Jakusovszky Subject: Fripp Introduces in TGD? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:02:19 -0600 I was 11 when TGD was taped. I recently bought TGD and thought that the = guy announcing the tunes was Jamie Muir. It sounds like the same guy = that refers to "bubbles Fripp". Am I mistaken? Mark J. ------------------------------ From: Mark Jakusovszky Subject: G3 in Colorado Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:06:38 -0600 If ANYONE, knows ANYTHING about whether or not, and if so, when the G3 show will be at Red Rocks in Denver PLEASE send an email to markjx at aol dot com. I'm getting really tired of listening to the cheezy TICKETBASTARD ads while I am on interminable hold, just to be told "Sorry sir, I don't have a listing for that, but would you like to pay me $20 for a subscription to a magazine that would help you find out about all the shows that you don't want to go to?" Patiently (or not so) waiting...... Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:45:36 -0500 From: That one guy Subject: the USA/ providence debate For quite a while now there's been some brief duscussion on "when was USA recorded?". After checking the vinyl (USA) vs. the CD (disc 1 of Great Deceiver) I've found that these are two seperate shows. I've thought this all along, but I know for sure now. Yes, both shows contain some similar songs, but USA and Great Deceiver (Disc 1) are from different nights. If you compare the two you'll see this as well. The main way that I could tell the differences were the different drum fills, violin solos, crowd noise (yelling for certain songs, applause at certain times), and the way Wetton sang certain lines. It's terribly obvious that side 2 of USA is not on GD and is not from Providence. Totally different versions of Easy Money and Schiziod Man prove this (laughing on 1st verse of Easy and distortion on vox in 21CSM). It was harder to tell about side 1 of USA, though. But, there are differences. Very different drum fills at the end of Lark's pt. 2 and also the way Wetton sings the line "take the crowd with my guitar" in Lament is different in both versions, in one he laughs at something as he sings it, the other he does not. On USA, there's not all of the tuning (mellotron) that's on GD, but that may have been edited out (hard to tell), regardless, the song itself is different. My whole point is that the only way to get USA is either to find the vinyl (it's worth it for the Schiziod Man, btw. Best version anywhere), get a boot from Japan or wherever OR wait until Fripp porperly puts it out. USA and Great Deceiver, disc 1 are totally different shows. I encourage all with both to see for themselves. If you disagree, just start typing and I'll listen. Oh, and don't present the fact that Fripp said they're the same show...they're not and he's (I'm gonna die for heresy on this) totally incorrect. Thanks for reading. James Hines (NOT the crafty guitarist!!!) cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #390 ********************************