Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #382 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 382 Saturday, 31 May 1997 Today's Topics: Tracking problem with _Epitaph_ Fripp's head... John Wetton Joined by Ian McDonald Epitaph comments/questions Back to trivia... Re: Elephant Talk Digest #380 - Mellotrons etc Groon & Tony Williams Lifetime fripp vis a vis miles davis Trey Gunn/CGT Wetton at Bottom Line Central Park 1974 Richard W. Palmer-James lyrics Music RE: A question to the Epitaph Events attenders Why not document the music on paper? King crimsons FUTURE... Re: Central Park 7-1-74 re: who plays what on Sheltering Sky Epitaph Booklet and Vol3-4 Epitaph Re: Guitar Craft -and related- events ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:07:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Tracking problem with _Epitaph_ Has anyone else had problems with mistracking of the first disc in the _Epitaph_ set? My copy suffered from a very irritating crackly distortion, especially in louder passages. On holding the disc to the light, I could see that the playing surface had a faintly puckered or wavy appearance, noticeable only at a certain angle. The other three discs were smooth, and did not have the tracking problem. I returned the defective disc to Possible Productions, but the replacement they sent me was identical to the first one. Do any copies *not* have this puckered surface? Is the British pressing different from the U.S. one? Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}---- Visit me at http://users.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html ------------------------------ From: "John H. Moore" Subject: Fripp's head... Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:10:31 -0400 I recived a blurb from Bennett Books (http://www.gurdjieff.org/bb/bb.htm) about a new edition of the autobiography of J. G. Bennett, which contained the following quote from RF: "If a stiff Englishman like Mr. B. could do it, there's hope for the rest of us. In our time and culture we had a teacher who went through the steps himself, took the leap, and came back to explain how we could do the same. When I found him, the top of my head blew off." Perhaps this is the reason Robert prefers so little personal stage lighting?... Cheers, John Moore ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 97 23:33:20 UT From: "Rich Mlinar" Subject: John Wetton Joined by Ian McDonald John Wetton put on a very entertaining show at The Bottom Line last night. I went to the early show with my wife, Dot, and my friend, Jim Pariot. A few other friends were upset that they couldn't make it. After an enjoyable six-song opening set by The Nudes (they weren't), John and Martin Orford took the stage. As the Intro faded, John began to play The Heat of the Moment. After a few moments, Ian McDonald strolled onstage, flute in hand, and joined in. What a thrill! Ian's flute, and backing vocals, added just the right coloring to the song. The entire set went like this: Intro The Heat of the Moment* Book of Saturday* (John remarked that he and Ian had both been in King Crimson, but hadn't played together. Kind of like attending different schools together.) Sole Survivor The Smile Has Left Your Eyes (John commented that he was going to play the song as it had originally been written, before it was over-produced.) 30 Years (An unplugged version for awhile, as the lead dropped out of John's guitar. It segued into...) Hold Me Now Rendezvous 6:02 (John alluded that there will be a new UK release next year.) Ode to Quilme (Martin's solo) Arkangel Battle Lines* Starless* Encore - Easy Money* * = songs with Ian McDonald John carried on quite a repartee with the audience thoughout the set, clearly enjoying the give-and-take, and amusingly responded to several shouted requests. He mentioned that at a previous show, someone had wanted he and Martin to play Red, and asked the crowd to consider what that could possibly sound like! John's voice sounded strong, and it was great to hear the superb flute playing of Ian McDonald, and witness a joining of different Crimson eras. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:42:22 -0500 (EST) From: FISHBOY Subject: Epitaph comments/questions Hello ET, I've had a few weeks to soak up the great EPITAPH set now, so I figured I'd make a few comments and ask a few questions. And to set myself apart from Robert Fripp and his imitators, I shall use lowercase letters rather than Roman numerals to ennumerate my points. :) a) The booklet is absolutely wonderful. Having comments by each band member is a great touch, and Vick the roadie's comments are probably my favorite! What a great idea to include them. As someone else already mentioned, I could have done without Fripp's requisite rant on the music industry, but I love everything else in the book. b) Did Fripp write the lyrics to "Drop In"? It wasn't Sinfield because the song is credited to Fripp, Lake, McDonald, Giles. And after the performance on Disc 4, someone (I guess Lake, but it's hard to tell) says "That was a number called Why Don't You Just Drop In. It was written by Fripp, our guitarist." I thought it was interesting if this was a rare example of lyrics penned by Fripp. c) In the notes for Disc 3 it says the following: "The first few phrases from Get Thy Bearings are missing on all available recordings, and have therefore been 'recreated' in order to maintain the continuity of the show." Recreated? What in tarnation does that mean? d) As someone else has mentioned, the dates of the Fillmore West shows are different everywhere you look on EPITAPH and FRAME BY FRAME. I wonder what the correct dates are. e) Does anyone out there have a CD boot of the Chesterfield show? Judging from the bootleg discography, the titles GET THY BEARINGS, DEAD FUCKING BULLOCKS, and MARCH FOR NO REASON appear to contain the complete show. The notes for Disc 4 state that "In the Court of the Crimson King" and "I Talk to the Wind" were not included because of severe mellotron intonation problems. Being that this is the apparently the only known live recording of "I Talk to the Wind," I don't care about that, I want to hear it! :) Can anyone help me out? I'm sure we can work out something that would be mutually beneficial. Thanks for reading. I must say I am enjoying these CDs immensely - thanks go out to the original band for all the wonderful music and to the great David Singleton for his amazing work in fixing up the sound! I wish other bands I listen to would make the effort to put together something like this; it's really a great package. ttyl, Andy Acunzo aacunzo at ccmail dot sunysb dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 14:57:08 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Back to trivia... >From: Gabe_Camacho at usccmail dot lehman dot com (Gabe Camacho) > > Fripp has a much more distinctive voice in what he's done with > electronics and rhythm guitar work, but the parallel there truly is to > Miles, not Trane. I would never compare Fripp to Miles OR Coltrane in a million years (beyond the fact that Miles and Fripp both were/are centerpieces of ever-shifting lineups). Miles plays far too few notes (as someone else said), and Fripp's music is soooo emotionally cold compared with that of Miles/Coltrane. It's gotta be someone whose music stresses brain over heart. >I always >thought the transition from the somewhat playfully surreal Moonchild to the >grandiloquent, Mellotron-laden 'In the Court' was the first album's high >point. For transitions, how can you beat "Schizoid Man"'s concluding chaos seguing into that lovely sustained flute note of "I Talk To The Wind?" Boy, that was PERVERSE. And intentionally so, I'm sure. I dug it. M Lehrer wrote: >This is a Crimson site. It is a holy place. Does this comment even need a rebuttal? Sheeeeesh. Noting that all rap and country is ALSO apparently ruled worthless by the tunnel-visioned ET groupthink, Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:58:19 +0000 From: moff at netmatters dot co dot uk (Ian Moffatt) Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #380 - Mellotrons etc Hi to all, I've only just re-signed up after a lapse due to moving etc. Was intending to stay in 'lurk mode' for a while. But, Jame, if you're serious for a mellotron, get in touch with Martin Orford (of IQ/Jadis also he's 'The keyboardist' who some times plays with John Wetton especially on those last dates). A while ago he had a 400S up for grabs. It only needed a new tape set and was going for 'offers over #800' It may still be around/and/or he may be able to help. You can get in touch via IQ website http://145.89.78.151/~martijn/iQ.html 'or' NMD at NEWTON dot NPL dot CO dot UK which is the address of the mailing list. If no luck email me and I'll give you phone/fax numbers. Crimson content warning! I'm sorry but I really am having trouble getting into THRaKatTTaK. I've been a die-hard KC man since a guy in the fifth form lent me 'In The Court of' back in the days of great coats and afghans! I'm really sorry people but this really is hard work, perhaps when I get into my new flat next week and can lie on the floor with the lights off and apply some volume! Anyone else have this trouble? Enjoy Marmite Ian ------------------------------ From: "Andy Gower" Subject: Groon & Tony Williams Lifetime Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:42:29 -0700 Does anyone else think Fripp on Groon is comparable to John McLaughlin on Tony Williams Lifetime "Emergency". Andy Gower ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:08:36 -0400 From: john heimbecker Organization: Statistics Canada Subject: fripp vis a vis miles davis have admired fripp for nearly three decades now and consider him one of the few consistently inventive and can't-be-taken-for-granted figures in rokk music; also can't pretend to know very much about jazz except that i find it extraordinarily intellectually challenging, when it is at its best (e.g. the work of miles davis), much more so than rokk, classical, etc. even so, i suspect that a knowledgeable jazz fan (even an open-minded one) would look unkindly upon anyone comparing miles davis to fripp. or to kraftwerk. or to the beetles. or to hootie and the blowfish. you name it. it is my understanding that davis' standing is just too high -- like louis armstrong, or duke ellington -- to permit us to claim that fripp has made an equivalent analogous contribution. and like i said, im a devoted fan. reelly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:35:50 -0400 From: Edward Banatt Subject: Trey Gunn/CGT Hi ET, For the TG/CGT shows, call the niteclub/hall, you may even reach a person. FYI: Bottom Line, tickets are $15, cash only at the box office. p.s. Miles Davis--Branford Marsalis--Sting--Andy Summers--Robert Fripp Eddie Banatt Fairlawn, NJ ebanatt at internexus dot net http://www.wp.com/EBANATT/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:39:21 -0400 (EDT) From: SPrice0426 at aol dot com Subject: Wetton at Bottom Line So what do you say about seeing your favorite singer/songwriter in concert? I guess you say it was fantastic after seeing both John Wetton shows at The Bottom Line in New York City on May 27. There was a quite a mixture of fans at the concert. Some favored Wetton's King Crimson work, some favored UK, some favored Asia, and some favored his solo work. It made for quite an interesting cross section of discussion among fans and with JW himself. He graciously gave of his time to the fans; greeting those waiting on the street outside the theater, spending well over an hour before show talking to those inside the theater, and then greeting others between shows. I can't speak for after the concert (I had to leave), but he signed autographs, posed for pictures, and pulled no punches in answering fans' questions. In fact, I would say he embraced his fans and could not have made them feel more welcome. He talked endlessly about his new album _Arkangel_, telling about the emotional experiences of the songs as well as the autobiographical nature of the album. He also said he was pleased at how the album flowed from song to song and said that every sound in every song was there for a reason. In other words, the lyrics and the music work congruently and complement the other (I told you earlier it was necessary to listen to the album playing loudly and with concentration!!). The new book was not there, but he seemed to endorse the contents of the book in the few comments he made about stressing that the book had to be read. He said that he worked on the new UK album with Eddie Jobson while in Los Angeles for Progfest and said that it would be out next year...whenever next year was. He also that the K-2 project with Carl Palmer and Misha Calvin was still "out there", but no other info on that subject. He told me that Geffen had the rights to the unreleased Asia songs indefinitely. He also called for a unity among progressive rock artists to market their products and releases together and collectively. To work together instead of in opposition and not to be afraid of taking each others' respective audiences. This made perfect sense to me. The record companies and radio stations target the teen crowd, but it's the 35-45 year-olds (no offense anyone) who have the disposable income to buy the music and we all know how hard it is to come by the music we all love. Some of us may be afraid this will make the artists sell out, but I feel it's more of a spreading of good taste, giving us more of an opportunity to hear the music we love and more of an opportunity for artists to record the music. Wouldn't it be great to have a record label to promote progressive artists in the marketplace and on radio!! And all of our favorite artists could all help and work with each other; it's not like they haven't all played together at one time or another anyway!! One other note: JW was extra pleased with his performance at Progfest. He apparently wasn't happy with the way the festival was handled. I've read over the intenet where some were upset with abbreviated length of his performance, but it was apparently mandated. I think he felt he was the headlining act only to find out the Flower Kings were playing last. He mentioned how the crowd went absolutely wild over "Starless" and he said the band gave them a show to remember. I've also read where some didn't like the Asia songs being played, but I just don't get that stream of thought. Wh has the right to decide what's progressive? I'm an ELP fan, but I actually prefer Greg Lake's ballads to their 10 minute masterpieces, but I can still enjoy and appreciate them, too. And, what if you do consider a song pop? If an artist doesn't change his sound from time to time then the writer is considered to be writing to a formula. I think JW has shown a remarkable adaptability to write in different styles, different formats, with different bands and different musicians and I enjoy them all. I think he should be able to showcase all of his talents, whether singing, playing bass, or songwriting. We don't always have to like all the songs, but we can still appreciate the emotion, the talent, and the performance. Concerning the concert at The Bottom Line. JW warned us outside the theater that he may be a little hoarse after his trip around the world, but the warning was unnecessary. His voice was strong and in fine form and he was joined on stage by Martin Orford on the piano and Ian Macdonald on flute for the two acoustic performances. They played a mixture of songs from JW's different eras of his career, playing the same setlist for both concerts with the addition of "The Night Watch" in the second show. One of the more comical moments came during the second show when he couldn't find his playlist, only the setlist for the warm-up band ("Does anyone have a cello?" quipped JW, referring to the warm-up band). He mentioned that he may have to take requests, but an acoustic "Red" and "21st Century Schizoid Man" would be hard to manage. After finding the setlist things were underway with JW introducing songs as being written while "the pyramids were being built", "the neolithic-Stonehenge period" and "before the Catskills (mountains) were formed". Here's the playlist: 1. Circle of St. Giles 2. Heat of the Moment 3. Book of Saturday 4. Sole Survivor 5. The Smile Has Left Your Eyes 6. 30 Years 7. Hold Me Now 8. Rendezvous 6:02 9. Quilmes (Orford solo) 10. The Night Watch 11. Arkangel 12. Battle Lines 13. Starless 14. Easy Money (encore) An interesting twist was hearing Ian Macdonald play flute solos where guitar solos were originally used in "Heat of the Moment" and "Battle Lines". Macdonald played on five songs: "Heat of the Moment", "Book of Saturday", "Battle Lines", "Starless", and "Easy Money". Martin Orford was outstanding on keyboards, but it was JW's show and he was exceptional. While introducing "Arkangel" he made a point to say that while many songs written may be somewhat fictional, "Arkangel" was the real thing and very important to him. I suspect this was a prelude to his next tour, which is slated to begin in September and my guess is his new album will be the major focus at that time. He said _Arkangel_ should be released around the world by that time, and based on my conversation with him I think that will be a very moving concert tour. I had the pleasure of meeting several people from the different mailing lists at the concert and that was indeed a pleasure. Hopefully, we can all keep in touch. And for those of us who travelled such a distance, hopefully _Arkangel_ will generate enough sales so that we won't have to travel such a distance to see him. That's enough of a reason to promote sales by an artist. 1000 miles each way doesn't make it easy to see your favorite singer and we have taste in the southeast/midwest, too!! Sincerely, Steve Price ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:00:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SPrice0426 at aol dot com Subject: Central Park 1974 In response to someone's question in ET 380, John Wetton said at his Bottom Line show in New York City that the last song he played with King Crimson at Central Park was "Starless". Steve Price ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 15:00:51 +1900 Subject: Richard W. Palmer-James lyrics Dear ETers: Greetings from Omsk, Siberia, Russia! I've been reading ET for 2 years now and enjoyed it a lot- thank you Toby! I never dared to waste your bandswidth, but the other day digging in my old vinyl staff I came across 2 funny LPs and I think it might be interesting for some ETers. La Bionda - Ariola 28146 XOT 1978 High Energy - Ariola 201198 1979 Lyrics for both LPs written by Richard W. Palmer-James. A very strange shift for him indeed. I've entire KC catalog + a lot more, received my 4CD Epitaph set from America a week ago. The world is really small! And there's much more KC fans than you might have thought. Here in Omsk for example. Thank you and back to lurking. Vasily Net-Tamer V 1.09 Beta - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 1997 09:41:33 +0100 From: "Andrew McArthur" Subject: Music I was glad to see that the Pistols vs. Prog debate has finally been put to sleep. As someone who only believes in 2 sorts of music - good and bad - and consequently has a broad taste to reflect this, the narrow minded views of some of the KC obsessed ETers were really beginning to grate. There's a lot of great music out there regardless of so called category - just go and find it!! With regards to hearing great improvisatory guitar playing pick up anything recent by Derek Bailey to hear it at its most incendiary. Oh and in response to the retarded Californian Tim Salmon who thinks that National Socialism is leftist because it has got the word Socialism. He should perhaps be informed that National Socialism is analogous to Fascism and a social conscience is not something that Fascism is renowned for!! Try reading a basic work on Politics! Life's too short for obsessions! Andrew Mcarthur ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 16:05:12 +0200 From: Alex Brugger Organization: Physics Department, University of Erlangen, Germany Subject: RE: A question to the Epitaph Events attenders ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ cf. "I talk to the Wind" - reading Michael Tanigawa's comment on the original query I *think* I remember David Singleton's remark (at the London playback) about the tapes of the BBC session being completely lost and no secondary source being available when putting Epitaph together. as for "I Talk to the Wind" live in concert, didn't David say something about the mellotron going out of tune whenever the lights on stage were turned off or on (no voltage stabilisers in those days) and ITTTW sounding especially bad due to this effect? as I said this is what I *think* I recall having heard, so please don't take this information for granted. cheers, Alex ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____________________ Alex Brugger ____________________ alex dot brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de http://www.physik.uni-erlangen.de/hi/ab/ab1.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:27:26 -0700 From: "John R. Palmer" Subject: Why not document the music on paper? In one of the recent issues, someone remarked that Mr. Fripp said at the NYC playback that his music would never be captured on paper. Why not? Assuming that I have not misinterpreted this comment, consider the potential place in history of RF as a musician, and his compositions as art. It is hard to judge the longevity of rock and roll (other than to say it has lasted this long), but 30-40 years is rather short compared to the centuries such classic composers as J.S.Bach have lived on through their own music. It is clear that the music from those previous eras has survived solely because it was written down, but it is not clear that because contemporary music is recorded so easily that it will last as long. Sheet music allows a whole class of music students to grasp the complexities of music that merely listening to it does not so easily enable. Will _Fracture_ last so long as the Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor, and if it does will it be because future musicians will be able to pick up the sheet music and learn the piece, with aspirants breaking themselves or conquering that edifice? - John R. Palmer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 18:47:04 -0500 (EST) From: CWA Subject: King crimsons FUTURE... While so much of the talk on ET has recently ranged around King Crimsons past (only natural considering the release of the "Epitath" set [a great idea] and the mention of the reformation of the 69 band [a terrible idea]) I though it might be interesting to submit a post regarding crimsons future... As well all know, King crimson is a band that has always drawn upon the "sound of the time" while making music that is distictly "crimson". This is obvious if one compares, say the 70's band with the 80's band, and even more so both bands to the 90's line up. With that stated, I'm posing this question: what do ET'ers think the NEXT crimson album will sound like? Its a purely hypothetical question, obviously, since speculation is all thats possible, but what do ET'ers think they'll see, and what do they WANT to see? Even though the current line-up will most likely remain the same, its been...hmm lets see by the time the next album comes out it will be between 3 and 4 years since THRAK, and a lot has changed musicaly since then. The "Nirvana-esque" sound has largely fallen into disfavor, replaced by the more electronicaly oriented sound of today-- given these changes, what can we expect? Hoping this post produces discussion more interesting than that ANNOYING "prog-punk" debate!! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:36:18 -0400 (EDT) From: BIGJANK at aol dot com Subject: Re: Central Park 7-1-74 Hello, I have wondered about the live tape I have of the 7-1-74 Central park show. At the end of the show, the annoucer says "all 4 exits are open". This always seemed kinda strange for a concert in a park? Maybe someone from NYC knows what the facilities are like? Can anyone else who has the show tell me if this is the same show, complete set list, etc.? The set list on my tape is as follows: 21st Century Schizoid Man Lament Exiles improv Easy Money Fracture Starless The Talking Drum Larks Tongues in Aspic II By the way, I agree with Robert Cervero's comments (ET #380) about I Talk To The Wind being left off EPITAPH CD#4. I think this is a great version of the song, dispite being a bit slow. Thanks, Gene Jankowski ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 12:50:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: re: who plays what on Sheltering Sky if memory serves, it's something like this: *all* the clean-tone melody lines and single-note solos -- Fripp backing ostinato picking -- mostly Belew (I think Fripp handled some of them live, while Belew was playing 'clouds') 'clouds' -- Belew begins these (he does all the 'divebombing' ones), then Fripp joins in when it turns into a melody. This was a high point of the 1981 shows, btw. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 97 18:57:55 +0100 From: Stephane Alexandre Subject: Epitaph Booklet and Vol3-4 Dear Elephant Talkers, When reading the Epitaph booklet I was really surprised by Robert's comments about Giles contribution to KC songs (p. 11): <> I understood from the Giles'interview excerpts (Merci Aymeric), that Mike Giles did not write KC songs but participate to the arranging. Well, I think that Robert's comments are superfluous. After all there is no comments to explain why Pete Sinfield is credited on "Epitaph" as a co-writer of the improvs were no words are sung. On an other hand Peter is not credited on "Drop In" because he was not the one who wrote the words for this song. OK but then, he could have been credited for musical ideas. Moreover, on "Mars" and "Get Thy Bearings" Peter is now credited as a co-arranger while he was not in the "Frame By Frame" booklet. To end with this, for me Giles and Sinfield were true KC' s members and then it is natural that they are credited as co-writers. In ET 378, Donald Chin reports his meeting with the "Epitaph" band. One of his comments catch my attention: <> Well, if you read Robert's interview page 46 and 47 in the "Epitaph" booklet, there is something about that (We are in September of 1969 and Fripp is speaking of Pete Sinfield): <> Then, the second KC album should have been constituted of: "A Man, A City" (or "Pictures of a City), "Mars", "Cat Food" found on ItWoP, "Birdman (Suite)" found on the McDonald and Giles album and "Cadence and Cascade", words from ItWoP and music from McDG album. Actually, I was interested by the fact that "Birdman" was initially a KC song on which the band was working. Actually "Birdman" includes a "Bolero" type music (repetition with a growing instrumentation). Since I have the McDG album, I think that "Lizard" (especially "Bolero" was Fripp's conception of the music for "Birdman". Moreover, on the second ELP album, Emerson's "Abandon Bolero" follows the same musical idea. You also find this musical idea developed by Chris Squire on his first solo album on the song "Safe (Canon Song)" and on this album, Pete Sinfield was acknowledged <> (Then, I think that this was for musical suggestion and not for words suggestion - The words on "Safe" are very similar to all Squire's words). Finally in answer to Max about volume 3 and 4 of Epitaph. Volume 3 is constituted of the whole Plumpton Festival (21stCSM, Get Thy Bearings, ItCotCK, Mantra, Travel, Improv and Mars). The versions of "Get Thy Bearings" and "Travel" are the ones found in the "Frame by Frame" box set. However, the sound is improved. Volume 4 include most of the Chesterfield show (21stCSM, Drop In, Get Thy Bearings, Mantra, Travel, Improv and Mars). "I Talk to the Wind" and ItCotCK have been unfortunately deleted because of some problem with the tuning of the mellotron. The sound on Volume 3 is quite good while the one on volume 4 is acceptable (Some white noise, mellotron tuning, and a few sound fluctuations). Chesterfield include a crazy version of "Get Thy Bearings" which last 18 minutes. Fortunately the sound recording of this song is better than the other songs and is more than acceptable. It also include the only known complete recorded version of "Drop In". On both shows, the improv start with a musical idea which later became part of "Happy Family". The improv from Plumpton is very good and include the only Giles solo found on "Epitaph". The Mars versions are quite different from the ones played at the Fillmore West shows. Well, volume 3 and 4 are really good and are more than a bonus. Happy listening, Stephane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 13:25:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Rjgluck at aol dot com Subject: Epitaph I recently received my Epitaph set in the mail. As much as I've always love it, I had always wondered why the original ITCOTCK LP seemed so tame. I saw the "Islands" era Crimson perform live early in their time together and found it to be a bit like what I'd imagine a peak inside a nuclear generator to seem. The performance was highly charged, unpredictable, and therefore really fabulous. Hearing decent recordings of these '69 concerts is a reminder of the power of that group, which is garbed in the more tame studio version. It also suggests the continuity of Crimsons over the years--which is in the imaginative, interactive improvisational style championed by Robert Fripp. Bob Gluck Sheffield, MA, USA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 13:04:37 -0500 From: Murray Kopelberg Subject: Re: Guitar Craft -and related- events Someone in the last ET asked about the summer Level I GC course in Chile that was announced at one point. This was announced prematurely by an individual outside the GC administration. I apoplogize for any confusion that may have caused. Level I GC courses that have been talked about for this summer in Germany and Chile will not occur; stay tuned for events scheduled after this summer, including events in Seattle, WA. Contact me if you have any related questions, or to be added to the GC mailing list. Best, Murray _____________________________ Murray Kopelberg Guitar Craft Registrar -- North America mkopelbe at students dot wisc dot edu _____________________________ ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #382 ********************************