Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #379 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 379 Tuesday, 20 May 1997 Today's Topics: EPITAPH!!! WHERE ARE YOU? Robin and Bobby Name the KC Tribute CD A question to the Epitaph Events attenders Rik Emmett Homepage Yes vs Sex P. , CGT/Trey G. Happy Bday,etc why do I care? Trey Gunn & CGT in Baltimore Tone,anyone? Anglagard, THRAK time sig, CGT/Trey Gunn query David Singleton on Epitaph volumes 3 and 4 please Singleton on epitaph 3/4 Happy Birthday! Opening Vroom mellotron strings on ITV Macca doc! ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:05:11 -0700 From: Neil Forker Organization: YL Productions Subject: EPITAPH!!! WHERE ARE YOU? I have been searching in retail stores here in the Indianapolis area to find Epitaph in the 2 or 4 disc versions. I have found nothing. Blockbuster Music has had ONE copy on order for the last 3 weeks. Another store called World Music refuses to order anything from DGM claiming that they make it much to difficult to purchase product to sell. I'm at a loss. I was going to try to order it from PossProd, but I am unable to get through to them. Any help suggesting where I might get this set would be appreciated. Thank you. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:29:37 -0400 From: BUEL_CHANDLER at mech dot disa dot mil (BUEL CHANDLER) Subject: Robin and Bobby A few digests ago, someone asked about a connection between Robin Trower and our man Fripp. I recall reading a Guitar Player (I think that was it), some years back that interviewed Trower. There were two things that I remember about that article: o Trower would not discuss his setup in detail, as he wished it to remain "secret". Anybody know if he has subsequently changed his mind? o Apparently during the time frame of this magazine, Fripp & Trower formed some sort of mutual admiration society. They taught each other some guitar technique. I believe Trower showed Fripp some vibrato technique (whether with fretting hand or by whammy bar, I can't recall). Fripp taught Trower some picking technique. Now that I think back, this seems rather unusual in that Fripp doesn't seem to interested in the music of the day, but maybe times were different back then. tttttaf, bec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:25:29 EDT From: "Martin K. Jones" Subject: Name the KC Tribute CD In Elephant Talk Digest #375, George Korein wrote - >3. For the ET tribute to KC, I thought that maybe the title could be a play >on "In the Court of the Crimson King" but "The Crimson Courtiers" sounded >inane, as did "The Crimson Royalty". Your ideas started me thinking. Here's my suggestion: _Your Majesty: A Tribute to King Crimson_ Martin Jones ------------------------------ From: max dot bracco at iol dot it Date: Thu, 15 May 97 23:16:26 Subject: A question to the Epitaph Events attenders Hi to all Eters Here's a question I have for anyone who was lucky enough to attend one of the two official presentations of "Epitaph" : in the Q&A session with Fripp and the other members, did anybody ask the reason why "I talk to the wind" , "Moonchild" "Groon" and "Cat food" weren't included in the live box set ? I'm quite sure they were playing this pearls live in those days, and I can't believe there was'nt a decent recording available (at least of "Wind"). If anybody knows the answer, please let us know. The exclusion of these songs for me was a slight disappointment about the "Epitaph" set. I also would have liked to have more improvs, like "Travel weary" and a second live version of "Get thy Bearings", the only true great twisted blues KC ever played. The "Great deceiver" live box was more satisfying for this aspect, since big thrills and surprises came right from the long improvised unreleased tracks, full of wild energy and visionary creativity. Anyway "Epitaph" is epic and emotioning, remembering us once more that Mc Donald and Giles were great contributors to the revolutionary sound of that era. Last question is for ANYONE OWNING the 4CD VERSION : do you think there's any of the songs getting a better performance on CD 3 and 4 ? Or did you find any special/peculiar moment in these extra discs ? ThrakByes MAX from ITALY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 10:32:09 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: Yes vs Sex P. , CGT/Trey G. Happy Bday,etc Dear Crimsonians - In response to the Sex Pistols vs Yes etc I have to concur with Carlos Henrique Moller (ET374), listen to alot of music, as Robert has said before, it may be easier to listen through music you don't like. There are genres of music I shy away from, really overproduced anything, things that reek of commercialism, plastic country, unimaginative rap the list goes on. However in almost every type of music I find some proponents that are true and that will always shine through. Both Fragile and NMTB's are albums that moved me in very different ways but with a similar outcome, they opened my ears to the possibilities. If anyone hasn't been to Tony Levin's websight lately, check it out lots of pictures of KC during rehearsal, relaxation and posing for Tony's digital camera. I just recieved 'World Diary', I know where have I been. I am very intrigued by world music and these collaborations are wonderful. Tony excellent disk, and a first rate packaging job. Trey and CGT will be doing a short East Coast tour the dates are: June 2 - Alexandria, VA - The Birchmere June 3 - Baltimore, MA - Orion Sound Studios June 4 - Philadelphia, PA - Tin Angel June 5 - New York, NY - Bottom Line June 6 - Boston, MA - Paradise Tony Geballe will be playing with Trey I don't know who the other players will be. Finally, Today is May 16th Robert's birthday, Tomorow is my daughter Lily's 6th birthday. She knows Robert through his music as did her father before her. (not a Jedi!) I am thankful to live in a time, and place that despite all it's double-talk, controversy and contradictions Cannot stop people like Robert from pursuing their muse And in that pursuit sharing some rays of that prism with us. Many of strive have the discipline to suffer cheerfully and do no violence, but at least may we acknowledge or mistakes and make that a beginning. From one note, a chord, from one cord a song, from one song, one time, a brief moment that stops, radiates then is gone, Happy Birthday Robert and thanks for a few moments. - Martin <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> <> Martin G. Bradburn Heartlab Inc <> <> Senior Database Engineer 101 Airport Rd <> <> mgb at heartlab dot com Westerly, RI 02891<> <> mgb at brainiac dot com(home) (401) 596-0592 <> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> <> 'With commitment, all the rules change' <> <> - Guitar Craft Aphorism <> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:28:35 -0400 From: catheter at eznet dot net Subject: why do I care? One ETer writes: > at the Sylvian/Fripp show in Toronto, Marotta seemed to have some > difficulty with "20th Century Dreaming,"... That would have been Pat Mastelotto. Marotta did the album, but not the tour. Also, I have a tape of the radio broadcast of that show, and David Sylvian names Mastelotto when he introduces the band. If something was going wrong in 20th Century Dreaming, it's impossible to tell from the tape - that track rocks dot et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Personally, I like the drums in the live shows better than on "The First Day". More impassioned and exciting. Mastelotto adds a lot of energy to the music while still adding texture. And now, back to the wall... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:55:05 -0400 From: "Michael K. Sheehan" Subject: Trey Gunn & CGT in Baltimore I found this on the rec.music.gdead newsgroup... for those of you who find the Dead are good for nothing... :) Please! Any more CGT dates? I sure wish I lived near Baltimore for this! From: "Adam Levin" Subject: Trey Gunn (King Crimson)/California Guitar Trio Baltimore 6/3/97 Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 16:56:24 -0400 Orion Sound Studios 2903 Whittington Avenue Baltimore, Maryland Tuesday, June 3rd 1997 7:30 PM On Tuesday night, June 3rd, Trey Gunn, best known for his work as a member of King Crimson will perform with his band along with the world renowned California Guitar Trio in the intimate setting of the Orion Studios Showcase Room. Admission will be limited to 150 for this all ages show. It is expected to sell out quickly. Admission: $15 (plus $1 for Visa/MasterCard purchases) Reserve your admission with cash or Visa/Mastercard at: Of Sound Mind Savage Mill 8600 Foundry Street Savage, MD (301)497-6488 Hours: Wed 12-6/Thu 12-8/Fri 12-8/Sat 12-8 NOTE: Of Sound Mind will be closed through Friday the 16th and will reopen Saturday the 17th for ticket sales. Please see http://prog.ari.net/prog/shows/showcase/ for directions to Orion Sound Studios and more information about our concert series. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 13:09:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Ctao at aol dot com Subject: Tone,anyone? As a longtime Crimso enthusiast, I often wonder if I'm the only ETer who bemoans the shortcomings of TONE in the guitar department of the current lineup. Before foaming at the mouth, please realize that the evaluation of tone/timbre/sonic signature is a completely subjective thing, and that I'm just checking in to see if I'm alone in these grumblings. My perception, having studied all of the new records, as well as catching the boys several times in the past few years, is that the guitars just don't sound as fierce, threatening (Fripp and Belew) or sweetly soaring (Fripp) in recent years. Belew's clean sounds are always beyond reproach, but I find a bit of a sterile edge in the skronky bits for both these stellar players (not to mention that Fripp's current looping setup, while infinitely more flexible, completely lacks the timbral charm of the original Enoid frippertronics setup. Indeed, analog tape saturation would seem to have its merits). Seeing Belew live at the Savoy in NYC on the Discipline tour, I was impressed by the element of chaos in his playing and sound. There was this Hendrixian sense of teetering on the edge of control, replete with really loud feedback. In seeing the current lineup, I really miss that sense of urgency. Add to this that Fripp's place in the mix has been at the edge of inaudibility at the several shows I've caught this year, and you've got the makings of some tired guitar histrionics. Levin and the rest of the guys are, as usual, beyond reproach. I only wish Fripp and Belew would return to the stomboxes, early Roland guitar synths, and those horrid JC 120s. Despite the above, I remain a true believer. Peace Out... ------------------------------ From: "John J. Stimson" Subject: Anglagard, THRAK time sig, CGT/Trey Gunn query Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:05:29 -0400 (EDT) First, I would like to respond to a comment that Anglagard was influenced by King Crimson and is "like Anekdoten". The only Crimson similarity I hear with Anglagard is the fuzzy guitar tone that Fripp used to use. There are closer comparisons, like Genesis or SFF, but they're definitely not a "clone band". Regarding the alleged similarity to Anekdoten, I have to say that the main similarity is that they're both from Sweden and both their names start with "An". I could go on to say that in both cases, the second album was less melodic than the first (allright, I'll come right out and say it: I found both of their second albums to be major disappointments). Musically, they don't have much in common. Someone also said yesterday that some song was "in 5/8 time, like Thrak". Well, Thrak is only partly in 5/8; there is a concurrent 7/8 line that starts up very soon after the song begins. The superposition of 7/8 and 5/8 is what gives the song it's off-balance feel. Apparently this grew out of an exercise from the Guitar Craft workshops. Finally, I'd like to ask anyone who knows anything about the (brief) Trey Gunn and California Guitar Trio tour to please contact me with whatever information you have. I know that there is one date in Baltimore, Maryland, but that's a bit far for me to drive just for a concert. I haven't seen anything about the tour on the ET Web "Tour Dates" page, and I just recently started reading the list. John Stimson http://harlie.ee.cornell.edu/~john/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:11:56 +1000 (EST) From: j dot keens at rmit dot EDU dot AU (Jeremy Keens) Subject: David Singleton on Epitaph volumes 3 and 4 please As the now proud possesor of Epitaph - it arrived in todays mail, no chance yet to hear it but proud nonetheless - I must say it is a very handsome beast (look and feel - great paper). I am also looking forward to reading the booklet. I did notice, and I think others have commented, that DS comments only on the first 2 disks (the 'commercial' ones). As his comments are interesting, informative and add to the music, plus techies like an idea of what he's played around with. As DGM etc read this, I would like to suggest that for the benefit of Eters that David put some notes together on disks 3&4 (like in the booklet, although if he wants to wax a bit lyrical I am sure we won't complain). I for one would print them off and keep them with the set. Also a quick bouquet for DGM - getting fripp crimson etc stuff to the antipodes is now a lot easier - There has been no sign of Epitaph. And commiserations - their hard disk crashed the other week. I happened to email about my order and they had lost a heap of data - so if you are waiting for an order it may pay to give them a mail. jeremy (keens) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:04:15 +1000 (EST) From: j dot keens at rmit dot EDU dot AU (Jeremy Keens) Subject: Singleton on epitaph 3/4 OK I finally looked all through and found the little sheet in volume 3 - if david wants to write more about the process, though, i would be interested. jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:03:32 +0900 (JST) From: valis at can dot bekkoame dot or dot jp (SATO Kuniaki) Subject: Happy Birthday! OM Happy birthday! R.F. P.S. CD"Discipline" express the process of kundalini yoga ? Do you know ? Dolphin (97/5/19) '$B:4F#K.L@'(J valis at can dot bekkoame dot or dot jp QZP01342 at niftyserve dot or dot jp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:55:29 +0100 (BST) From: dinosaur Subject: Opening Vroom mellotron strings on ITV Macca doc! Hi there. Just an interesting bit of trivia for you. Last night (Sunday 18th May) there was a documentary on ITV about the latest goings on for Paul McCartney. During one section he was demonstrating some of the groovy sounds that were on a mellotron that he had in his studio. A couple of times he played the *exact* strings sample that opens the track Vroom on Krimson's album Thrak. Anyone out there know how easy or difficult it is to get your hands on a mellotron, and whether they are hideously expensive or not? Regards, James. *--------------------------------------------------------* jAMES bEARD - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2511/ the university of kent @ canterbury It's only talk. *--------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #379 ********************************