Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #374 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 374 Sunday, 11 May 1997 Today's Topics: Epitaph in New York KC songs played in Philly THRAK, Indeed! another Lizard fan (et#373) Why Crimson? An aesthetic experience involving Miles & Fripp Sinfield as Songwriter (recently) punk vs. yes ? Trade? NEW MUSIC RELEASES TOUCHED BY FRIPP/CRIMSON Cuneiform/Fie!/Discipline Isalnd lovers of the world, unite! La Monte Young's Dream House: Seven Years of Sound and Light KC Mark I -reunification ? Re: versions vs. verities G3 Tour Info,. NE ET Group. Shedding Skin Re: Islands Sleeve Changed date for Wetton Tallow Moon?,Soundscape?,EJ,BB& the Beat Possible new 21CSM Cover by Voivod! Epitaph Playback in NYC Re: Sinfield collaborations Re: versions vs. verities Brian Gingrich with David Torn CD ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:20:50 -0400 (EDT) From: murkie Subject: Epitaph in New York hmmm... sat morn, got up at the crack of dawn, kissed the wife and kid, and hopped into the car and headed for new york. without a concerted effort to defy the speed laws, i hit the george washington bridge in record time (4.5 hours!), made my way southward to greenwich village and ditched the car a couple of blocks away from my brother's apartment at N.Y.U. hooked up with my bro and his fiance, hung for a while, chomped a bagel and then hit the subway uptown (to 86th and Lexington - the subway stop and my destination). headed into the building, picked up a copy of the discs and fell into line, chatting and passing time until "the moment"... luck, logistics and a high-frequency hearing loss from too many years gigging before using earplugs caused me to miss all of the brief question and answer period, but i did get to chat with a couple of really nice folks about everything from Zappa's drummers to L7 and the varrying merits of every single crimso album. such a conversation would be impossible with anyone i knew before. for the last several days my mind had been spinning. what to say when approaching the mythically unapproachable? what do you say to your biggest musical influence? " nice shoes?" would i be the one to cause him to rise from the table and bolt from the room? heart racing, adrenalin surging, cd booklet growwing less and less firm from sweating hands, i approached the table, handed him the booklet to sign, my brain a mass of white noise and static, and said the only thing i could think of: "So... what *is* the nature of the relationship between the artist and audience?" RF: "Do you want the short answer or the long answer?" (paraphrased) Me: (looking at the long line of people behind me... ) "um... short? post the long to ET." RF: "Truth." (actually he said more after that, but the word that rang in my ears and stuck in my brain was "truth". all else drifted away...) overall, it was well worth the drive, even just to see giles, anderson and lake and say "thank you" to all four of the boys. the discs? seeing as i was born in '68, i'm really enjoying hearing a band that was both ahead of it's time and mine. sorry for the length kids, murkie ===================================================================== = = = M a r k C h r i s t e n s e n = = Cramped Quarters Studio / Jasperpottamus Music Publishing = = internet: murkie at middlebury dot edu = = "The world isn't flat. It's actually +6 dBa at 5.7 kHz." = = = ===================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:47:33 -0400 From: Future Perfect <" artmusic"@gte.net> Subject: KC songs played in Philly > Wrong Way, how about if >you let us know when your next gig is and a bunch of middle-aged >gray-haireds will show up and scare your friends. Hello ET!! My group from Florida will be performing in Philly on June 7: Borders Books and Music, Philadelphia, PA (215) 248-1213 the address is 8701 Germantown Ave 8-10pm.. Although we mostly play original music, we'll throw in a slew of KC songs, if the local ET'ers are interested. Info about us is at our web site below, as well as other dates in the Philly, Delaware, Maryland and Virginia areas. Email for any other questions..And our CD is finally finished!! Yippie!!! Thanks!!! Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 'Music is a mirror of who we are.' - Robert Fripp ------------------------------ From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: THRAK, Indeed! Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:00:19 -0700 Dave_Depper at bendnet dot com (Dave Depper) certainly seems to have gotten upset about SOMETHING, and, as far as I can tell, it's NOT Tiger Woods. While Mr. D. went on for quite a while, kindly notice that at no point did he directly say what was bothering him. I thought this kind of spewing was judged as being relatively unacceptable in this group! "The recent outrage at Fripp's slurs"? What outrage? And what slurs were being referred to? I haven't missed an issuance of this newsletter in the better part of a year, and I'm confused. Next time perhaps someone should reveal just what it is they're pissed off about, before letting loose with such a monologue. Then the rest of us would listen perhaps, instead of just paging through it, wondering how someone could get so wanked-off. * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:50:51 -0600 From: "Steven W. Sthole" Subject: another Lizard fan (et#373) i always felt that lizard was excluded from a lot of the compliations due to it's tendancy to sound as a singular piece of music. Granted, there are many individual compositions here, but taken seperately are not as powerful as the whole. I am curious about Markus Scheemann's reference to a litigation with Mr. Haskell. Lizard compositional credits always did go soley to Fripp and Sinfield. It would seem silly after all these years for Gordon to dispute this. Perhaps the royalties are with regard soley to recompense for his vocal performance. This might explain Belew's over-dub in the 'Frame by Frame' performance. Thanks to the several ET'ers who gave us a run-down on the reunion in New York, wish I could have been there. ************************************************************** * (peace) * * Steven W. Sthole, mailto:sws at indra dot com * * mailto:Steven dot Sthole at firstdatacorp dot com * * * * http://net.indra.com/~sws/ * * * * check it out! the Greatest Band in the Universe at: * * http://net.indra.com/~sws/band.html * * * ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:00:35 -0700 From: clive appleby Subject: Why Crimson? What first attracted me to Crimson was a tape a friend had brought over to my house when I was 15(in 1983). He had recorded USA on one side and Three of a perfect pair on the other. Before this day I had heard Fripp's guitar work from his Eno and Bowie projects but at 15 had never much thought of the individuals making the music as I had only just started taking drum lessons and was still enamored with the music of Led Zeppelin and Jeff Beck. Imagine my surprise when I heard the blissfull guitar of Fripp in 21st Century Schizoid Man, Exiles or the dribbling bass lines of John Wetton, Not to mention Brufords drums pure energy. The contrasting nebulous sounds of Perfect Pairs title track in addition to nuages, and Dig Me. I couldn't believe my ears. >From that day on when one side of the tape ran out we all said flip the tape, it became our theme. We covered Astbury Park and Schizoid Man as best we could within 7 years we actually could play the two all the way through. Today I own a complete collection of everything that is Crimson, Yes even related music such as Yes and solo Belew, Bruford's Earthworks (even named a now defunked Design Firm Earthwork Communications Inc) Needless to say I am obsessed and lovin' it big time. My favorite all time tune is a crimson tune (changes depending on my mood) currently it is Frame by Frame followed closly by Walking on Air, Trey Gunns Warr Guitar is so liquid really trippy sound I love it! Clive Appleby clive at squamish dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Brancaleone Subject: An aesthetic experience involving Miles & Fripp I was hangin' back with a buddy the other night, and we were updating each other on music we're getting into. At one point, he played for me "Prayer (Oh Doctor Jesus)" by Miles Davis from the Porgy and Bess album. The intense emotion of that song made me sink in my seat. When it was over, it was my turn to exopse my friend to some more KC (I always do it in small doses). I was intending to show him Neurotica ("Hey check out KC's 80's version of jazz"), but accidentally put it on "Requiem" instead. When it started I said "Actually this is a good song too let's check it out". Well what I realized after about 10 seconds of that song, was that the transition from the Miles piece over to Requiem was an EXTREMELY smooth transition, in that I thought I was hearing a common vein of expression. It got me thinking. It seemed like Fripp was doing on guitar what Davis was just doing on the trumpet. An overwhelming experience! Maybe we can start calling Fripp the "miles davis of guitar" hehe. jOE " " - me "Gravity impedes my progress." ------------------------------ From: Mark Jakusovszky Subject: Sinfield as Songwriter (recently) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:16:40 -0600 In ET 369 Greg Forster wrote : "Can anyone tell me if Peter Sinfield has collaborated significantly with any other writers since his Crimson days. I'm aware of his contribution to Gary Brooker's debut album,and a few "one-off" songs,but beyond this I'm lost." Then MAX from ITALY wrote: If my memory isn't wrong, he wrote English lyrycs for the international versions of 2 or 3 albums by PFM, an Italian prog band of the seventies. I think one was titled "Photos of ghosts" ... but I'm not sure 100 per cent about it, since I have the Italian versions with Italian lyrics. Probably some other american or english Eters might own the English versions and could confirm if my memory is right or wrong. I just picked up the recent Celine Dion CD and one of the songs had a Pete Sinfield listed as a coauthor. I wonder........ BTW, the CD is for my wife (tho she does have some pipes!), so flame privately and save our fellow ET'ers the pain. Thanks, Mark J. Be Different. Everyone else is! ------------------------------ From: "Carlos Henrique Moller" Subject: punk vs. yes ? Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 21:44:54 -0300 hi all you ETs ! banging the drums here in brazil again :-) humm... i'm so new 'round here, but it happens that i saw some kind of discussion regarding punk rock and progressive rock, am i wrong ? well, the point is: there's a program in MTV Brazil that's called BARRACO and the last monday the topic was "what's the future of music ?". and all the blah blah blah was about techno ! ! ! i mean: the whole thing was about a DJ being a musician and more blah blah blah. i think the real issue is: is a turntable an instrument ? god only knows the future, but i think there's a future for music: we have to stop being so lazy and listen to absolutely everything, including pistols (very important at their time) AND Yes (important then and, humm.. nowadays i don't think so). i have all Yes albums AND pistols albums, and Belew, and Fripp, and Joe Jackson, and Duran Duran (someone would kill me for that ?), and etc etc etc. you have to discover little pearls in a sea of useless rocks. i can bet one thing: in every album released, you'll find at least one song/track that you might say: humm, there's something here (with the exception of Bon Jovi !). so people of earth: again, stop being so lazy and listening only crimson. it's not fair to the other bands, for there's no comparison ! final: be aware - the future of music is in its present. or KC is just a illusion ? goodnight and happy dreams ! carlos moller ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: JPRICE at TrentU dot ca Subject: Trade? Hello ETlings, I was at the second-hand CD store the other day, thinning my collection, and I found a mint copy of Sylvian/Fripp's "Damage" CD. I decided to forgo some cash in exchange for this extra copy so that I could offer it here for trade. I'll consider any offers, but I really want a THRAK ball cap, or the "Epitaph" box...? 8^) J. P. Hovercraft aka jprice at trentu dot ca "aLSO THRaK ZaRaTHUSTRa" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:06:24 -0400 From: "Richard R. Rossi" Subject: NEW MUSIC RELEASES TOUCHED BY FRIPP/CRIMSON I recently began receiving the newsletter of JART Music, mostly importers, jartmusicrob at juno dot com, http://www.webcreations.com/jart/, and came across the following items: WETTON,JOHN ARKANGEL + 1 $29.99 Japanese edition of new solo album by this former member of Asia, UK & King Crimson, features a two month window ahead of the rest of the world, the bonus track "Take These Tears" and guests Robert Fripp, Steve Hackett & Andy Summers of the Police. 13 tracks total. HOLDSWORTH,ALLAN I.O.U. BAND LIVE $14.99 The only live album ever released by Holdsworth & the I.O.U. band, featuring vocalist Paul Williams and the stellar rhythm section of ex Frank Zappa drummer Chad Wackerman and bassist Jimmy Johnson. Recorded live in Japan in 1985, the full color picture disc features nine tracks. Includes "Road Games", "White Line", "Panic Station", "Was There (Something)" and more. TROWER,ROBIN-CARAVAN TO MIDNIGHT/ VICTIMS OF FURY $21.99 Two-on-one featuring a pair of Trower's top 40 albums that he cut for Chrysalis in 1978 & 1980, respectively. Robert Fripp provides the sleevenote. 19 tracks in all, including "Caravan To Midnight", "Fool", "Lost In Love", "Sail On", "Jack & Jill", "Victims Of The Fury", etc JOHANSSON & HOLDSWORTH-HEAVY MACHINE + 1 $30.99 Japanese edition of collaborative effort by Allan Holdsworth with Swedish drum duo, brothers Jens & Anders Johannson. Features the bonus track "The Moose Are Marching". The Trower entry is very interesting; I was a big fan in the 70s. In fact, saw him sandwiched between Rory Gallagher and Jethro Tull at Shea Stadium in 1976(?) - BUT I DIGRESS............. Can anyone comment on the Trower/Fripp relation? RRR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:27:55 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Cuneiform/Fie!/Discipline Hello Friends: Well, no sooner has Cuneiform joined The Artist Shop than they come out with a great new batch of CD's! They'll be released after May 5, but Artist Shop patrons can get a sneak preview of them now (as well as advance ordering them) at http://www.artist-shop.com/cuniform . Tops on the list of these five new releases is the re-release of Happy the Man Live! Many people consider HTM to be the finest symphonic rock band the US ever produced. This disc contains spirited live versions of pieces from their two Arista lps, some of which are significantly different than the studio versions. (HTM fans should also check out Kit Watkins in the Artist Shop at http://www.artist-shop.com/linden .) A favorite of mine in this batch is Forrest Fang's The Blind Messenger (which, coincidentally, also features Kit Watkins on one track, my he gets around!). Although it was the first time I'd heard Fang's music, this exotic ethnoambient progressive mixture drew me right in! Then there's the highly anticipate second release from Happy Family called Toscco; Blast's third release, Stringy Rugs; and a highly eclectic jazz ensemble of Elton Dean, Paul Dunmall, Tony Levin, Paul Rogers, Roswell Rudd and Keith Tippett with their album, Bladik. Four of these instrumentalists are from another of Cuneiforms artists, the band called Mujician. King Crimson fans will recognize pianist Keith Tippet as having played a significant role on three of Crimson's early albums. On our Fie! page Peter Hammill fans will now find three more of his albums - In a Foreign Town, Out of Water and the double live album, Room Temperature - Live. This latter album has a very special historical significance as one of the gigs at which it was recorded just happens to be a Cleveland gig I attended! :-) And before I get a note from Julius and Bill, yes, I do remember that you were there, too :-) Since I put up the King Crimson Epitaph discs on the Discipline page , I've gotten a number of questions regarding two disc and four disc versions of this set. A number of people have wondered why they can't find the four disc version and why their retailers know nothing about a four disc version. The reason for this is that Discipline is not releasing the third and fourth discs of this set on the open market. Although these official bootlegs of discs three and four are sonically superior to much of the unofficial bootlegs currently floating around, Discipline still didn't feel the sound quality was where they wanted it to be to release it on the open market. However, Discipline are selling discs three and four directly by mail order themselves. And, in fact, every Epitaph set of discs one and two will contain an order form with instructions on how to get discs three and four. So never fear. All purchasers of the discs one and two (which sound spectacular!) will get the order form for discs three and four. So stop on by and say hello, Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:12:27 +0200 From: Alessandro Bagno Subject: Isalnd lovers of the world, unite! Organization: Dip. Chimica Organica Dear ETers: There seems to have been some discussion about the "Islands" LP lately. To my surprise, this seems to be the least loved KC album ever. If I may spend a word in its defense: I find it admirable, especially because its calmness seems to stem from restraint rather than lack of feeling or strength. And "Formentera Lady" is as hot a love letter as there can be. I would love to have it live (yes, yes, I know it is hopeless). "Islands" is definitely one of my KC favorites. It's not that I like it - it's a part of myself. -- Alessandro Bagno Centro CNR Meccanismi Reazioni Organiche, Dip. Chimica Organica Universita' di Padova, via Marzolo 1 - 35131 Padova (Italy) tel. +39 49 8275660; fax +39 49 8275239; e-mail alex at chor02 dot chor dot unipd dot it http://www.chemistry.unipd.it/Docs/Academics/Pdchor/Mechanistic/solv.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 06:32:22 -0400 (EDT) From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Subject: La Monte Young's Dream House: Seven Years of Sound and Light Given the big influence of La Monte Young on the Ambient genre as started by Fripp & Eno, I though I might share this. Come on down. Lay on the floor for a few hours! ;) MELA Foundation Inc. 275 Church Street New York, NY 10013 212-925-8270 Dream House: Seven Years of Sound and Light, a collaborative Sound and Light Environment by composer La Monte Young and visual artist Marian Zazeela, is presented in an extended exhibition at MELA Foundation, 275 Church Street, 3rd Floor. Young and Zazeela characterize the Sound and Light Environment as a "time installation measured by a setting of continuous frequencies in sound and light." La Monte Young - Marian Zazeela Dream House Seven Years of Sound and Light 275 Church Street 3rd Floor Sound and Light Environment a time installation measured by a setting of continuous frequencies in sound and light Marian Zazeela Neon, Dream House Variation I (1989) Sculpture, Rune Window 1992 from Still Light Installation, Imagic Light (1993) from Light Environment, Magenta Day/ Magenta Night Realization Church Street 3rd Floor 1993 La Monte Young The Base 9:7.4 Symmetry in Prime Time When Centered above and below The Lowest Term Primes in The Range 288 to 224 with The Addition of 279 and 261 in Which The Half of The Symmetric Division Mapped above and Including 288 Consists of The Powers of 2 Multiplied by The Primes within The Ranges of 144 to 128, 72 to 64 and 36 to 32 Which Are Symmetrical to Those Primes in Lowest Terms in The Half of The Symmetric Division Mapped below and Including 224 within The Ranges 126 to 112, 63 to 56 and 31.5 to 28 with The Addition of 119. (1991 - Present NYC) Open Thursdays & Saturdays 2:00 to 12:00 PM and by appointment. Closed In the summer. Admissions, information, appointments: 212-925-8270 MELA Foundation 275 Church Street, bell # 3, 3rd floor New York, NY 10013 information copyright (c) La Monte Young - Marian Zazeela 1993 Press Commentary on Exhibition: "... the multifaceted form of the 35-frequency construction of Young's current installation is the principal reason it changes hallucinogenically with every shift in perspective and why the tones freeze in place as long as one is perfectly still while the slightest gesture will startle forth unnamable, wildly plumed melodies from the luxuriant harmonic foliage. Zazeela's light sculptures have invariably, teasingly refused to surrender their entire secret to photographic reprodution, so much do they depend on the retinal impact of activated photons in real time and so much do they exploit, in ways analagous to Young's techniques, the creation of visual combination tones and an accumulation of after-images." -- Sandy McCroskey, 1/1, The Journal of the Just Intonation Network "Young's newest sine-tone sculpture shimmers and swirls as you walk around the room and, amazingly, when you freeze, it does too. Stay at least long enough to stare at Zazeela's Imagic Light and Ruine Window, which will imprint your retina with blues and purples you haven't felt before." -- Kyle Gann, The Village Voice "The visitor with an acute ear can actually 'play' the room like an instrument: explore the sound close to the wall, close to the floor, in the corner, or just standing still. Or lie on the floor and allow the sound to float you into heaven, slide you into hell, or transport you wherever you want to go. See if you agree with those who call Young's sound sculpture a precursor of ambient music. Zazeela's light installation, "Imagic Light," offers an intriuging complement to the sound, even though it is equally effective when viewed in silence. Using pairs of colored lights and suspended aluminum mobiles cut out in calligraphic shapes, Zazeela explores the relationship between object and shadow, making the tangible intangible, and vice versa. Enjoy the installation for its mesmerizing beauty, or try to analyze how the different colors are achieved, how the mobiles create the resulting shadows, or perspective the infinite number of symmetrical patterns in the room." -- David Farneth, Metrobeat Music Eternal Light Art D a v i d B e a r d s l e y .. dmb5561719 at aol dot com * .. * ... .* .... *...... . ..* I M M P & B i i n k! m u s i c .. .. * .. .. * .. J u x t a p o s i t i o n Ezine * . .. * . .*.. . .. . . .*. . . . . .. .. http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm . .. .*.. . .. . ..*. . .. . *. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:16:21 +0100 (BST) From: Markus Schneemann Subject: KC Mark I -reunification ? Dear ET-folks some ETers visiting the EPITAPH-playback in NY were quite enthusiastic about the possibility of the reunification of the first incarnation of KC. I wonder how many of you feel as uneasy as me about this idea. First of all, all reunited bands I know were disappointing. I think of ELP, Deep Purple, Yes etc.. Secondly, one of the major strength of KC was its ability to redefine Crimson around the genius of Fripp. This unease I see reflected in the dispute about resurrecting KC alltime favourites like Fracture ant Starless. I think KC should move on into the future and not reflect to heavily on its past. So long Markus / oxford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:02:35 -0400 From: John Saylor Subject: Re: versions vs. verities Hi >In classical music, it's generaly the piece which is first considered. >Performances, conductors may and do vary how the piece sounds, but they do >not change what is the written score. This is not true! There are legions of classical music fans who swear by Glen Gould's recordings of the Bach WTC as opposed to Wanda Landowska's. Or any other kind of faux contest you could imagine [Von Karajan and Berlin vs. Berstein and New York]. The end result of a musical performance can be quite different even if both players are looking at the same score. Think of how 2 people could recite the same poem quite differently. There is more in the ear than is put on the page. >It's interesting to think about the twist this takes in jazz, particularly >in standards. What you hear in a piece depends on the instruments, the >arrangement, and even the performer's whim. The contrbution of >interpretation is more pronounced than in classical performances. Again, I disagree. Both "styles" have elements of personal and group identity and the tradeoffs are not so one sided. There is an interpreter of the Beethoven Piano Sonatas who actually ignores some of the score notations [gasp!] in what are, to my ears, very nice readings of these works. How does he fit it? >Where does 'pop culture' cross over into Culture? I never thought they were different. -- John Saylor [from the home office] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:33:37 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: G3 Tour Info,. NE ET Group. For those with no Web Access here are the G3 tour dates from the Satrani Site: June 1997 Date Day Venue City/State 18 Wed Blockbuster Sony Center Camden NJ 19 Thu The Meadows Music Theater Hartford CT 20 Fri Jones Beach Amphitheater Wantagh NY 21 Sat PNC Art Center Holmdel NJ 22 Sun Harborlights Pavilion Boston MA 24 Tue Nautica Stage Cleveland OH 25 Wed Finger Lakes Arts Center Canandaigua NY 26 Thu New Pine Knob Music Theater Clarkston MI 27 Fri I.C. Light Amphitheater Pittsburgh PA 28 Sat Melody Fair N. Tonawanda NY July 1997 1 Tue World Music Theater Tinley Park Il 11 Fri Woodlands Pavilion The Woodlands TX 18 Fri Red Rocks Amphitheater Morrison CO 20 Sun Reno Hilton Amphitheater Reno NV 25 Fri Plaza of Nations Vancouver BC 27 Sun Queen River Showplace Portland OR 29 Tue The Joint Las Vegas NV 30 Wed Blockbuster Sky Pavilion Phoenix AZ August 1997 1 Fri Concord Pavilion Concord CA 2 Sat Summer Pops Bowl Park San Diego CA 3 Sun Hollywood Bowl Los Angeles CA I got tickets for the Harbor Lights show in Boston yesterday the 29th, and the tickets were going fast. You can get them through NOW ticket agents (617-423-6000). Ticketmaster is handling alot of the other shows it seems. I would be really interested in starting a New England ET chapter. Email me below. Maybe the June 22 show could be our first official event. Thanks for all the playback reports, I would have been there but, due to circustances beyond my control wasn't able to make it. - Martin <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> <> Martin G. Bradburn Heartlab Inc <> <> Senior Database Engineer 101 Airport Rd <> <> mgb at heartlab dot com Westerly, RI 02891<> <> mgb at brainiac dot com(home) (401) 596-0592 <> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> <> 'With commitment, all the rules change' <> <> - Guitar Craft Aphorism <> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> ------------------------------ From: Alex Moseley Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:17:02 +0100 (BST) Subject: Shedding Skin I expected a deluge of support for Lizard after last issue's question of its standing in Crimson circles, but apparently not. I must, therefore, jump to its defence and stand alongside its other two supporters. Lizard captures exactly what King Crimson is for me: original, drawing on sources ; calm, wild ; beautiful, ugly ; happy, sad ; sarcastic & witty , truthful & stark. This is, of course, true of all other Crimson records. Each one seems to combine these elements in a different way, and for ME Lizard just hits the right spot. The truly wonderful thing about Crimson is that the next person will prefer Red, or Thrak, or Discipline... And while they might have one album which just hits that spot dead on, there are ten others which shoot off in similarly-satisfying tangents. Having said all that, maybe Thrak hit another bullseye somewhere, as I do seem to be playing it an awful lot... *----------------------------- Alex Moseley, Computer Officer (Arts & Law), University of Leicester. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:17:27 +0100 (BST) From: Keith Burns Subject: Re: Islands Sleeve My copy of "Islands" is also different to any others that I have seen or read about in ET. The front and back cover shots are the usual "outer space" ones, but there is no writing on the sleeve at all, except for on the spine. The inner bag has the lyrics and credits on a buff ground on one side, and a montage of live shots forming a cloud-like blob in the centre of the other, again on a buff ground. Also, the record itself does not feature the extra "orchestra warming up / Fripp talkback" track. So - is this an unusual mixture of elements? I bought it around 1980 in Oslo, Norway, it is on Polydor and was made in Germany. P.S. Was fascinated to hear at the London Epitaph playback that a large chunk of "The Letters" comes from the previously unreleased "Drop In", and that the intro to "Exiles" began life as "Mantra". Keith Burns Edinburgh Scotland. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:58:40 -0400 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Changed date for Wetton Hi All Wetton's show at the Bottom Line in NYC has been changed from 5/18 to 5/27. CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Monday-Thursday at 9PM and 1AM, EDT. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:24:46 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Basile Subject: Tallow Moon?,Soundscape?,EJ,BB& the Beat Howdy, Enjoyed about all of the last postings. Some questions I have? Sylvian Fripp's songs Tallow Moon and The Color you Are, just heard them on a bootleg. Is there any other releases of these. Love em! #2. Having bought a 3g and soundscape ticket to the Pittsburgh show, June27 at IC Light Ampatheater,what should I do to prepare for this? Will this be all new soundscapes,or should I reaquaint my self with Blessing of Tears, 1999 ect. ? Having been to a few KC & crafty shows before , this was not a problem for me. Never being at a soundscape show I was wondering if it was totally improv,or currently released Soundscape? RF, being a very special guest, how long will he play? Also was it worth me buying the top priced ticket, or should I have gone with the $10.00 special? If you have experienced soundscapes before I would be intrested in hearing from you. I do have a black soundscape T-shirt I'll have on ....I would like to meet any contributor to ET if you see me at the show.....or if you have a clue how to get any kind of passes!? OH,lastnight in the burgh, I saw Eric Johnson for the first time.It did help that I was familiar with his other 3 releases,eventhough about 1/3 of the concert wasn't on any of his 3 releases.It was awesome.I am in agreement with last posting's author, that said it would of been cool if he was still a 3G..Most KC fans would truly enjoy the show and the new, very pretty, CD;VENUS ILSE...super! A few emails on Bruford and the Beat ,video I forgot to talk about my last posting. An instuctional tape that is pretty kool for nondrummers too! Bill does a wonderful job talking about everything a fan would like to know.Steve Howe and RF add wonderfull insight into Bill, Yes ,KC and music.This video came out during the Disipline Tour. That line up does the song Disipline, while Robert does play-by play...very cool...even 15 years later. Apologies..myspellcheck has been out since Chritmas... Keep on writing and thanks to all atDMG and ET. Warmly, Joe Basile Industry,PA ------------------------------ From: "Brian Thomson, London UK" Subject: Possible new 21CSM Cover by Voivod! Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:59:27 +0100 I've only seen one report on this, in a music magazine (possibly MOJO). I haven't been able to otherwise confirm it. I'm pretty sure it isn't on their new album "Negatron", so it might be a b-side or something from a compilation. Now THAT would be worth hearing. For those who don't know, Voivod are a Canadian trio, not to be confused with Triumph or Rush, a lot weirder than either... I'll keep a lookout regardless... Brian Thomson, London UK bnt at ibm dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:24:28 -0400 From: ssmith at knittingfactory dot com (Steve Smith) Subject: Epitaph Playback in NYC While I've been so overwhelmingly inundated with work over the last few weeks that I wasn't able to immediately formulate my thoughts on the Epitaph playback until now, I would echo Rob Cervero's comment that the event seemed to be a great deal more "American" than was the British event he described so eloquently in a previous ET. It was hot, uncomfortable, and certainly less genteel. I got there at 3 p.m. so of course I ended up not hearing much of the commentary (although it was both a shock and a delight to hear Fripp say that all the other guys had to do was call...) I waited for 2 hours in line for autographs, wondering all along just what I was going to say when I got my moment. I spent a lot of time listening to folks in the crowd talking about their tape collections, their rare LPs, all the times they've seen the Dead (or any number of other groups), what they thought of the Orb (or any number of other new groups)... it was all quite fascinating. Someone also handed out copies of the first Discipline Newsletter, essentially a Fripp self-interview of some eight pages length about the whys and wherefores of the label. So the moment finally came... it was time. And far from all the terrible stories you've ever heard, Fripp was beaming, glowing, generous. He shook hands... SHOOK HANDS... with everyone who approached, and spoke with everyone who had a question or comment. By contrast, after 2 full hours of autographs and schmoozing the other guys seemed at least tired, if not outright distracted. And what did I say when I finally had the chance to approach the Fripp, my wife looking on from the sales floor like a beaming mom waiting to see her kid sit on Santa's lap? "Thanks so much for doing this, and for making this music available to us." ("Oh, you're very welcome." That wonderful curious smile of all those photos, now just a few feet away...) "Oh, and I've really been enjoying your posts on Elephant Talk. It's been a lot of fun reading them." ("Ah yes," the smile broadens. "Kicking the wasps nest!") So I've got my autographed boxset and a nice little memory to treasure: meeting Fripp the gentleman and not Fripp the scary monster. (Sorry, sir, couldn't resist...) Steve Smith ssmith at knittingfactory dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 23:56:38 +0100 From: rolit at mbox dot vol dot it (Rolando Michelazzi) Subject: Re: Sinfield collaborations On Sun, 27 Apr 97 19:47:57, max dot bracco at iol dot it wrote: >If my memory isn't wrong, he wrote English lyrycs for the international >versions of 2 or 3 albums by PFM, an Italian prog band of the seventies. I >think one was titled "Photos of ghosts" ... but I'm not sure 100 per cent >about it, since I have the Italian versions with Italian lyrics. Probably >some other american or english Eters might own the English versions and >could confirm if my memory is right or wrong. Although I'm italian, I purchased the english version of "Photos Of Ghosts" (Manticore, 1973) when it came out and I can confirm the lyrics are written by Pete Sinfield. He also wrote the lyrics for the english version of the following album "The World became the world" (Manticore, 1974). Pete Sinfield was also the producer of the first Roxy Music album Ciao. Rolando. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:37:50 -0500 (EST) From: "M. S. AtKisson" Subject: Re: versions vs. verities John Saylor took issue with my little provocative bit: > [re: "classical music"] > The end result of a musical performance can be quite different even if both > players are looking at the same score. Think of how 2 people could recite > the same poem quite differently. There is more in the ear than is put on > the page. What I said was: > >Performances, conductors may and do vary how the piece sounds, but they do > >not change what is the written score... Nor does the person reading the poem change the words -- the emphasis is everything, I agree. We said the same thing, I think. And re: Jazz: > Again, I disagree. Both "styles" have elements of personal and group > identity and the tradeoffs are not so one sided. Again, no arguments. This is quite related to what I was trying to say. (And you had no comment on rock? Hmm..) My notion in writing the original was two-fold, and I may have failed to communicate adequately. [I plead post-surgery pain-killers.] I'm interested in the interplay between the composer's intent and the performer's execution. > There is an interpreter of > the Beethoven Piano Sonatas who actually ignores some of the score > notations [gasp!] in what are, to my ears, very nice readings of these > works. Gasp indeed. Was Beethoven so far removed from those Baroque composers who left us the scores (now reverently adhered to) that they _expected_ would serve as grounds for the performers to improvise? I think it was part of the musical culture. But I digress. Why did I post this to the King Crimson list? Because we were talking about recorded vs. live versions of songs, and there's been some discussion of covers in connection with the 'tribute' project. Then there was the (from Fripp?) comment about "Not re-arranging," and _that_ got me to thinking about how does one keep a record -- as in score -- of Crimson music. Is it like Jazz charts? The player's don't have to be told how to hit that off-beat swing, but someone picking it up who never heard jazz (but could read music) would never know how it really sounded. Unless, of course, the theoretical person picked up a (rare!) full transcription. The added problem with Crimson music (and prog-rock in general) is the contribution of the electronics and the recording (or reinforcement) technology. If all the CD players and magnetic media in the world went "k-Zzot", how would our theoretical someone ever know how THRAK sounded? Or could have sounded? These are not intended to be plaintive questions. I'm really curious. > >Where does 'pop culture' cross over into Culture? > > I never thought they were different. Pop culture is transient. It's gone. Other people were writing serviceable waltzes, but we remember Strauss. Don't tell me you expect No Doubt to be remembered in a hundred years . Peg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:40:33 -0700 From: spike Subject: Brian Gingrich with David Torn CD Hi there, A long time ago our household was sent this great CD, The White Rim of Heaven, by Brian Gingrich (the bass man, there is a lot of great cupboard rattling low end that seems to like to lead). David Torn plays on 4 tracks. The first track is very Tornish and likes to be played up loud. It's a guitar driven CD and has a lot of texture and layering to it. The CD is all instrumental and wanders, it is interesting and keeps your mind occupied. So, while you are waiting for the next Crimson and Levin CD, check this one out. Gingrich should definitely be funded into making another CD. Maybe he can get Torn to also do some vocals on the next one. We need new music. The CD is on Alchemy and they have a terrible web site, but if you can get past that, there are some sound samples of this CD on the Gingrich page at http://www.musicpro.com/alchemy/gingrich.html. And you can order it there. Happy listening. spike Life's a blast, let's explode! ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #374 ********************************