Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #373 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 373 Tuesday, 29 April 1997 Today's Topics: Warr fund Scott Hamrick is a fascist! Baby's on Fire! Islands Sleeve random insults RE: 20th Century Man Lark's T's in A origin? versions vs. verities Re: Epitaph (2cd's vs. 4 cd's) LIZARD-fans stand up Current ticketmaster listing for G3 tour Re: Turner Tattoos G3,KWS,No Cakes %( More on polling Kenny Wayne Sheppard Fashion Driven Music HUDSON VALLEY ETers BAND TOGETHER! Another Crimso Sighting... the crimson Cunningham Wetton in Croydon. Croydon? ET King Crimson tribute update Stealth Guitar re:bathwater TEN SECONDS, ANYONE? Beat .... did anyone care? manners and questions What were those punks thinking anyway? Attn: Philadelphia, PA ( Downtown ET'rs) Thrak and others Wetton at Croydon NYC Signing KC clones, but good ones Sinfield collaborations Epitaph in NYC A glorious day, and a question KC at HMV Records Could two KCs co-exist? "The Making of 'Burning for Buddy'" Video K.C should decide sets and encores Post Script: Re: Xavier Discipline tattoo--it's possible! Bobby and the Crims at HMV ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 18:53:52 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Warr fund ET readers may or may not be aware that Mark Warr (and others) are currently being sued by Emmet Chapman, Yuta Chapman, and Stick Enterprises, Inc. To help defend this action, "The Warr Guitar Defense Fund" has been set up. If you would like to contribute or receive more information, send mail to Warrfund at aol dot com. This is for your information only. Please note that we cannot discuss the nature of the suit on ET. Toby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 15:27:42 BST From: Scott Hamrick Subject: Scott Hamrick is a fascist! J. Saroka sez: >_my_ politics aren't at issue (although i'd rather be labellled a commie >than a fascist). Hey, look everybody, I'm a fascist now! Unfortunately, it seems some members of this forum would rather argue about politics via personal e-mail and ET itself than calmly discuss music. I had no intention of ever arguing about politics at all. In fact, I am rather uninterested in politics altogether. (And I never called Mr. Saroka a commie.) I did, however, mistakenly refer to Henry Cow and the R.I.O. movement as communist, and for that I am sorry - I am told they're actually socialist. That is all. Scott Hamrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:37:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Matekudesy at aol dot com Subject: Baby's on Fire! Dear fellow ETers: I have recently subscribed to ET although my torrid love affair with Crimso has spanned a nifty fifteen years. I have been fortunate enough to catch 'em everytime they come to New York City and was even one of the few Crimson fans that saw the current lineup play live on the Conan O'Brien Show (albeit they only played one number: Dinosaur) of all venues!! (I'm of the opinion that the majority of the gum chewing teenagers who were there did not know what hit them when the Crimson came out...entertaining to watch to say the least.) I have one brush with greatness story to share with all: The year was 1991 and Mr. Fripp & The League of Crafty Guitarists gave a free concert in the World Financial Center in New York City. Naturally I attended and was pleasantly surprised when I was allowed access into the photography/press area with my camera..I snapped away making sure I got good shots of Trey Gunn and of RF.. It was spectacular, as was the performance . After the performance Mr. Fripp joined by Mr. Gunn and others happily signed copies of their current effort entitled "Show of Hands". I waited in line like a good little boy for my chance to shake the hands of a man whose music has inspired me for so many years and also to tell him that I appreciated his works. When it was my turn to have my cd autographed I made sure that my girlfriend was poised with camera in hand ready to capture the "Kodak" moment of moments. I shook Mr. Fripp's hand and related to him my adoration of his work. He was very polite and smiled. Whereupon I then seized to ask when Crimson would reunite if at all and if so then would the lineup be the same ( Levin, Bruford, Belew). He cooly replied that King Crimson would indeed be reunited in the near future and added that although the lineup may be organically different, King Crimson would always be the same. I thanked him and walked away floating on air. I remember being mildly confused about his response and I'm sure that it was partly due to the fact that I had just met a man whose work I admired and also was excited about the fact that I had all these great pictures memorializing the great chain of events. Well, wouldn't you know it, I ended up leaving the camera with the hallowed roll of film in a yellow taxi cab and never forgave myself for such egregious faux pas... BTW: When I was in London, U.K. last year I found a cd which I treasure among my collection of Crimson music: Super Golden Radio Shows No. 040 Brian Eno & Robert Fripp Live in London 1974 + Paris 1975. It has scortching hot tracks: The Paw Paw Negro Blow Torch, Fever, and Baby's on Fire. Absolutely Outstanding. Curiously, while I studied Law in Syracuse I got a chance to see The Voluptous Horror of Karen Black who performed their version of Baby's on Fire. I smiled and quietly relished her homage to Mr. Eno. Super Golden Radio Shows also has on its catalouge King Crimson Live in Atlanta 1973 + Pittsburgh 1975; does anyone know how I can get my hands on a copy? Keep rockin'... Aus Torres, NYC I can be reached at Matekudesy at AOL dot com or at Tash12 at worldnet dot att dot net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:42:14 +0100 From: robin smith Subject: Islands Sleeve Greg Forster wrote: >In regard to "Islands". Could anyone out there tell me where the >alternative cover for the album came from - and ultimately what >happened to >it. My original copy was an Australian pressing featuring the usual >"Trifid >Nebula in Sagittarius" cover. When the copy showed the inevidable signs >of >wear I replaced it (along with all my Crimson albums) with new vinyl >copies. The new copy was a U.S. gate-fold sleeve,buff in colour with a >small out-of-focus "blob" of colours in the bottom right-hand corner. **************************************** I've seen the 'blobby' version on sale in the US too. I can only add that my own copy, bought in 1974 in Manchester, England (my first KC purchase!) has a slightly oversized crab nebula sleeve, with a gatefold inner sleeve bearing the blobby design and complete lyrics. I've not seen another one like it anywhere. Is it a rarity? My LTIA has a colour inner sleeve with full lyrics, and my SABB has a B/w inner sleeve, again with lyrics. I've never thought of these as being unusual, but I suppose with all the correspondence re. lyrics, they must be. Anybody add anything to this? TTFN. -- robin smith ------------------------------ From: Dave_Depper at bendnet dot com (Dave Depper) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:00:56 -0700 Subject: random insults Organization: http://www.bendnet.com Check this out guys... I found a site that randomly generates a letter of complaint to whoever you want it to. I thought that this would be perfect for the loving environment of ET. So, be aware that this doesn't reflect my opinion, nor the opinion of anyone else. It's random. The site is at http://www-csag.cs.uiuc.edu/individual/pakin/complaint My complaint about Robert Fripp Do you ever wake up in the morning thinking, "Robert Fripp's shell games need to be reassessed with Fripp's ulterior motives in mind?" Well, so do I. To start, that is no excuse for anything. Still, I can barely contain myself from going into a laughing fit when I see one of these raving misers. In theory, I by no means claim to know everything about unprofessional nasty rapscallions. But in reality, the cliches of his ideas are well-known to us all. Come on, Fripp; I know you're capable of thoughtful social behavior. What I mean to say is that I find his failed attempts to turn back the clock and repeal all the civil rights and anti-discrimination legislation now on the books mildly amusing. At first, you might think that it's time for him to grow up. But on deeper inspection, you'll honestly conclude that human life is full of artificiality, perversion, and misery, much of which is caused by frightful clods. Admittedly, flattery will get Fripp nowhere. But that's because Fripp doesn't care one whit about how others might feel. In the end, the most telling thing is that he is -- for lack of a better word -- vicious. If some people are offended by my mentioning that he has made some imprecise statements and statements that ought to have had all sorts of qualifications and reservations attached to them, then so be it. I must emphasize that he is as self-centered as the sky is blue. Though I don't doubt the depth of Fripp's sentiments, it's rather the form of his expressions that I find both unstable and delusional. Is it any wonder that I am confident that stingy enemies of the people will come to their own conclusions about all of these matters? After reading everything I could find on this subject, I was forced to conclude that any day now, Fripp's catch-phrases will subject human beings to indignities. Fripp's claims have an unsavory historical track record. Fripp is almost unique among sleazy children in that he espouses an oppressive view of reality and a defense of parasitic pharisaism. Not that I've come to expect any better from repugnant morons. He should think twice before he decides to feed blind hatred. Sad, but true. And it'll only get worse if he finds a way to offer hatred with a pseudo-intellectual gloss. We can't afford to be so perfidious in such difficult times. It is clear from what I have already written that it would be a crying shame to let mendacious neanderthals deploy enormous resources in a war of attrition against helpless citizens. Before you declare me ornery, let me assert that Fripp just wants to avoid detection and punishment. I recently read a book confirming what I've been saying for years, that he has a blatant disregard for society's basic laws. The truth hurts, doesn't it, Fripp? It is no news that according to the dictionary, "Fripp-ism" is "any of a set of ideologies that devastate vast acres of precious farmland". Isn't it odd that self-absorbed so-called experts, whose illaudable lifestyle will seize control of the power structure in a matter of days, are immune from censure? The recent outrage at Robert Fripp's slurs may point to a brighter future. For now, however, I must leave you knowing that unreasonable loan sharks like him often think they have the right to acquire public acceptance of his puerile demands. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:43:25 -0400 From: Christopher Carl Heckman Subject: RE: 20th Century Man Yes, that song was written by the Kinks, but it appeared on their album _Muswell Hillbillies_, which came out in 1971. It seems unlikely that KC performed it in 1969. It seems even more unlikely, considering that the song has a mellow sound and slide guitar. (Sitting here at the terminal, I'm hard-pressed to come up with even one KC song which uses slide guitar; there may not even be one at all.) My theory is that somehow the title got corrupted from "21st Century Schizoid Man". There is another song on _MH_ by the name of "Acute Schizophrenia Paranoia Blues". I remember an old review of this album that said that Ray Davies probably stole these titles from the well-known KC song. -- Christopher Heckman, checkman at math dot gatech dot edu Internet: http://www.math.gatech.edu/~checkman "[I don't] think he should be turning the erosion pattern of the Himalayas into a flute quintet at this time." - Douglas Adams ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:30:17 -0700 From: Herbert Boardman Subject: Lark's T's in A origin? Q for Robert Fripp, if you would be so kind: 1. "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" a code-name for carrot shavings in jell-o? My mother used to make this nasty dish. The carrots do indeed resemble... 2. My post in ET 356, "Fripp's Quiz", I answered your questions from back when, and I responded to the 2nd by saying, "Concerning the rights of the audient fan, there aren't any." Agree? Anyone else? (I thought I was going to get flamed big-time for that.) 3. Did you ever get my letter? (Written c/o Opium Arts, ltd.) Many thanks, Mike Holst "Cheap bastard. He borrows my computer." -Herb Boardman "He who knows he is deep, strives for clarity. He who wishes to appear deep, strives for obscurity. The audience, being too timid and fearful to test the waters themselves, think anything is deep when they can't see the bottom." -Friedrich Nietchze (sp?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:21:06 -0500 (EST) From: "M. S. AtKisson" Subject: versions vs. verities |warning: unedited prose follows. recent CTS surgery. please forgive.| Mr. Nolan comments about which version of a song people prefer -- live or studio -- might depend onwhich they heard first. Valid, but this brings me to think about something a bit broader. In classical music, it's generaly the piece which is first considered. Performances, conductors may and do vary how the piece sounds, but they do not change what is the written score. It's interesting to think about the twist this takes in jazz, particularly in standards. What you hear in a piece depends on the instruments, the arrangement, and even the performer's whim. The contrbution of interpretation is more pronounced than in classical performances. One might think that in rock, the individual player's skills and attitudes would be paramount. Not only playing style but choice of electronics have a huge impact on how a song sounds. Your 'sound', in instrumentation, writing style, etc., is key. The process of recording and the toys of the studio often define a piece (song), at least to our ears. This is not generally a 'repertory' genre (discounting wedding and other coverbands), in most people's veiw. However, while very few guitarists have Fripp's skill (won by *ahem* discipline), the _music_ of Crimson get's played, either by a jazz ensemble (EitherOrchestra), or by teenage trios (as on a recent digest). Not many pianists have hands the size of Listz', making playing his compositions just that much more difficult. Yet it's still worth doing because the music is true, the difficulty challenging andinstructive. What is a 'version', anyway? When does a clam become expressiveness? Where does 'pop culture' cross over into Culture? What makes somethign definitive? Peg. PS: Sanjay, please drop me an email. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:01:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Otherroad at aol dot com Subject: Re: Epitaph (2cd's vs. 4 cd's) Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Dave Anastasi wrote: >Can someone tell me how to get my hands on the 4cd box set. The vendors in >my area are all expecting to receive the 2cd set and don't know anything >about the other 2 cds. Can someone fill me in? It would be greatly >appreciated. I know there's been much confusion on the issue of the 2 CD vs. 4 CD versions of Epitaph. I spoke to Discipline and here is the scoop. Volumes 1 & 2 are being put on the open market as a single package including a 60 page booklet. Volumes 3 & 4 do not have the sound quality of the first two volumes and therefore Discipline has decided not to put them on the open market. No retailer will have the 3rd and 4th discs of this set. That's why your vendors don't know about it. However, discs 3 & 4 will be available directly from Discipline via mail order and all the Epitaph sets of disc 1 & 2 available through retailers will contain a mail in order form with which you can get discs 3 & 4. That said, I hope you'll check out the soundbite for Epitaph at The Artist Shop at . Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:10:32 +0100 (BST) From: Markus Schneemann Subject: LIZARD-fans stand up IN ET 271 Gregory Foster wrote: I prehaps stand alone in my love of"Lizard". Fripp appears not to hold the album in high regard - as it seems to fail to appear on any "best of" albums,save the instrumental section on "Frame By Frame" (with Levin's bass replacing Haskell's). Firstly, I confess my love to "LIZARD" as well. I suppose that for most KRimsonites it involves to much jazz-style improvisations from the Tippett, Charig, Evans supporting crew. The best result in blending jazz-style with "Crimson" is, IMO, "RED" - Mel Collins, Ian McDonald, Charig - or putting it this way - mixing strings (guitars, bass, violins, mellotronics) with winds (cornet, saxes, oboe). I think, Fripp doesn't use extracts from LIZARD on the samplers because of litigations on royalties with Gordon Haskell. For the same reason he replaced him with Belew singing on "Cadence" and Levin on bass in Lizard's instrumentals. Fripp mentions these litigations, I think, in the EPITAPH-liner notes. Cheers, Markus ------------------------------ From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: Current ticketmaster listing for G3 tour Date: Tue, 22 Apr 97 08:13:00 EST 24-JUN-97 NAUTICA STAGE CLEVELAND OH 25-JUN-97 FINGER LAKES PERF ARTS CTR CANANDAIGUA NY 2-AUG-97 HOSPITALITY POINT SAN DIEGO CA ------------------------------ From: "Nick Bennett" Subject: Re: Turner Tattoos Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:50:05 -0700 Actually, I've had the Discipline logo as a tattoo on my right shoulderblade since '92 (fwiw, it is about 3.5" in diameter, and cost me about $175 at the time). Although it has faded some, it still looks pretty good. Actually, getting it had very little to do with my appreciation for KC; instead, when I first bought a copy of Discipline, I thought: "That's a very cool design! If I ever decide that I want a tattoo, that would be a design which I could live with on my body forever." Seven+ years later, when I was going through lots of changes in my life, a tattoo seemed like a good way to celebrate certain actions I had taken, and there was really no contest as to what design I would use. As it turned out, I was not the first person to request (and get) the tattoo from the shop! So there is at least one other person with the Discipline logo on his/her body. Last year, I paired that tattoo with a different Celtic knot on the opposite shoulderblade, using a design which I also used on the cover of my first (and to date, only) CD: "Songs Arriving Late". That design is a circular tree, with the branches entwining and becoming the roots. The two of them together work pretty well, IMO. Nick Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:12:18 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: G3,KWS,No Cakes %( Dear Crimsoniacs - Just a quick triplet: 1. The first announced G3 Gig stateside is Concord Pavillion, Concord, California, August Ist. Robert said he is opening with Soundscapes but the Satch says on his message board that Robert will also jam with them. We can only hope. 2. I caught Kenny Wayne Shepard and Eric Johnson on Austin City Limits(PBS broadcast concert 4/19/97). His style is very SRV influenced as he admits,he's very young and if the blues be yo thang quite a talented lad. His Web page is at: http://www.revolution-online.com/shepherd/kwsmainpage.html It's a shame Eric Johnson isn't playing, Satriani,Vai,Johnson,Fripp would have been interesting, but maybe Robert and Kenny will jam on some psychotexasthrakkingblues! 3. No cakes at the HMV event, shame I had some delectable beasties in mind to bring. - MGB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:10:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Brancaleone Subject: More on polling My apologies to Damon for coming on so strongly against the polling. I'm going to back down a bit and just say that my dissatisfaction with the polling is just from my own personal understanding of KC, and so it shouldn't have to be everyone's. But I do get to go on a bit more on why I have this opinion. Nothing should be shut from debate here hehe. Thanks for the input on my "what is played vs. how its played" argument. It was kind of a spur-of-the-moment thing, and I think doesn't hold much water after some more thought. It's an invalid comparison for the bigger argument. Just to clarify, its not out of idolizing that I have this position (mentioned by someone else). It's simply because of the strong element of improvisation and "moment by moment" discovery of music shared by live audience and the musicians alike. Again, I have not yet attended a KC gig, but this same phenomenon occurs in other live music which I have experienced (only jazz comes to mind right now). And so for ME PERSONALLY, not that I'm pushing this on everyone else (because we probably all have unique understandings of KC), I have no desire at all for a certain song to be played over another song, or certain old material be revived or what not. The first reason is that I trust already that a variety of music will be played, and the second reason is that the most exciting aspect of going to such a gig is the onslaught of improvisation throughout whatever music is played. And those two reasons support each other: we can't deny that any Crimson gig in the future will have variety: some old stuff, some not-so-old stuff, lots of new stuff. And then within the framework of that loose structure: new creative endeavors! The real meat of it all, to me. Which makes any detail of that framework, no matter how big or small, virtually irrelevant. This is a quotation from jazzist Eric Dolphy (I think?) that sums it up for me: "When you hear music, when its over, its gone in the air. And you can never ... capture it ... again." I do understand Damon's position in a sense. Crimson's music has distinctive flavorings from one song to the next, and some of those flavors are more aesthetically pleasing than others, probably according to personality of the taster. So I can see why certain songs are preferred to be heard. For me, that's what the albums are for. Maybe that's where we differ the most, since Damon does go for the imrovisational elements as well ("that's what we listen to the band for anyway - new material"). That's as best as I can explain it all. This is all just explaining my opinion, not primarily trying to convince others over, but that's cool if it does. jOE "Gravity impedes my progress." ------------------------------ From: Greg Picklesimer Subject: Kenny Wayne Sheppard Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:40:40 MDT Since several people have now asked, I would say that KWS does indeed sound very much like Stevie Ray Vaughan. In fact, there are even some thanks and credits on the only CD I know of, Ledbetter Heights, that imply a relationship with SRV. At the time the CD was released, Sheppard was 18 or 19 years old, which seemed to be THE fact that gets mentioned wrt. this CD. Several of the songs get some airplay around here, mostly Deja Voodoo and Abilene. A worthy debut for a very talented young guitar player and a reasonable replacement for Eric Johnson on the G3 tour. If you like the 'Texas Blues' style, it's worth checking out. -- Greg *------------------------------------------------------------------ Greg Picklesimer (greg dot picklesimer at symbios dot com) Symbios Logic Inc Fax: (719)533-7480 1635 Aeroplaza Dr. Colorado Springs CO 80916 Phone:(719)533-7530 ------------------------------ Subject: Fashion Driven Music Date: Tue, 22 Apr 97 17:29:36 -0700 From: Bruce Selzler >>From: Bruce Selzler >> >>On the other hand, Punk failed, in that it was the beginning of "fashion >>driven rock". Not enough substance to sustain an art. Previously rock had >>directed fashion, but the punk/new wavers with the record companies >>following like sheep, threw out the baby with the bath water. > >Well, mayyybe. But what about all the lame early-'60s bands with Beatle >haircuts and collarless suits? What about all the poseur psychedelic bands >of the late '60s, in their tie-dyed shirts and carefully coiffed hippie >haircuts? Or the calculatedly fresh-scrubbed doowop groups of the '50s? >Punk was certainly not the beginning of contrived band images. And >actually, the subsequent New Wave was more guilty of this than punk. Well, my point was that in the 50's and 60's, and partly into the 70's Music and artists drove the fashion. Not the other way around. Frankly I think its all due to some sick American desire (I'm an American, turn off the flame throwers) for our God given right to 15 minutes of fame. That and record company weasels. BTW, the Sex Pistols were important, but it was all a scam. Its time we got over it. Just look at them on David Letterman. Good thing Sid wasn't here to see it. Also, its interesting that you seem to think that the Sex Pistol all too brief carreer has more value than the entire Yes catalog. On the other side of that coin, there is more emotion, and balls-to-the wall rock on Gates of Delirium than the whole Pistols catalog. And frankly the majority of the Yes catalog holds up a lot better than the Pistols. I still like Never Mind the Bollocks though. - Sez **************** Visit @Music on Talk City +===+ o +===+ THE ROAD | | /|\ | | http://www.talkcity.com/atmusic/ GOES ON |~~~| Co-"=|~~~| FOREVER.... |___| / \ |___| IRC: chat.talkcity.com **************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:45:13 -0400 From: "Richard R. Rossi" Subject: HUDSON VALLEY ETers BAND TOGETHER! Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) recently submitted the following: >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:01:37 -0400 (EDT) >From: DanKirkd at aol dot com >Subject: Listing "local chapters" of enthusiasts at ET Web > >In ET# 368 Elvis wrote: > >> ...I thought it might serve well to collect a mailing list of local >> ET'ers to share info about close-by >> happenings, and perhaps arrange after-show gatherings etc. I expect >>this to be a very low traffic list...I'm >> doing nothing more than >>compiling addresses and setting up a mailer... > > I think this is a very good idea. In support, if anyone wants to have a > "local chapter" of KC/RF enthusiasts listed at ET Web (name, place, > contact, etc...) I'll be happy to create a web page for that purpose. > Just let me know. > > Dan > ET Web With this in mind, I would like to announce the formation of "MID-HUDSON ET", serving the following NY counties: * Orange * Putnam * Dutchess * Ulster Ah, Ulster County - home of Woodstock, home of one Tony Levin! Also the birthplace of something referred to as "The Double Trio." As written by RF, "The present incarnation, the Double Trio, is the fifth live ensemble since the group's birthday on January 13th. 1969 in the basement of the Fulham Palace Cafe, London. The conception of the present personnel was January 7th. 1994, and their birthday April 18th. 1994, both in Woodstock, New York. " I'm in the process of putting a page together as an initial "gathering place" for anyone interested in this. Hopefully, it will lead to real gatherings for concerts, weddings, bar mitzvahs, and the like. Please e-mail me privately with comments, ideas, etc. Dan, thanks for being a part of this and making it happen. Richard R. Rossi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 04:30:38 UT From: "Chris Mills" Date: 23 April 97 From: Chris dot Mills at phillynews dot com Subject: 20th Cent Man/LTIA2 covers/Crimso Sex two short bits and a longer bit. re: KC playing a song called "20th Century Man". The Stones did a song called "2000 Man" on Satanic Majesties, a jaunty music-hall kind of tune that I can't imagine KC covering, though what a trip if they did. The Kinks also have a "20th Century Man", track one of "Muswell Hillbillies" and, while the song gets pretty heavy, it didn't come out 'til 1971. (FYI this is a great album, even if Ray Davies has called it "the greatest Kinks flop album ever".) re: Wrong Way Out, the 14-year-old Philly youth whose band played a cover of LTIA2. 22 years ago, as an ambitious 14 year old, my ambitious bandmates & I also did (attempted) a cover of LTIA2. I hope Wrong Way's interpretation worked better; we played just enough right notes for the crowd to recognize which song we were mangling. Wrong Way, how about if you let us know when your next gig is and a bunch of middle-aged gray-haireds will show up and scare your friends. If it's in the gym at your school, we'll scare the chaperones -- who'll no doubt call the police. re: arguments over leftists/fascists/progs/punks and the trashing of Damon "Fracture" Mahon and his get-out-the-vote campaign: hey gang, let's lighten up. Yeah, KC is a serious outfit, RF has a megawatt intellect and ET is one of the most thoughtful boards around. But even RF doesn't live by Big Thoughts alone: where did I read a remark by RF to the effect that during his 20's, his brain was "in (his) dick". Imagine: Father Bob as a hose king -- and discussing it publicly! Which brings me to my suggestion: with ET getting a tad testy, I propose a round-table colloquy that's positively testes, something that everyone will enjoy: "Great KC-Based Sexual Experiences." Here's mine. It's pegged to "Islands" (title track) and is set in Scandinavia in 1976, when I was a 15 year old summer exchange student living on a Danish farm. A group of us Americans and our host families went on a canoe trip in the lake district of Sweden where my undeclared and growing infatuation with a farm girl named Jetta grew with each pull on the paddle (so to speak) as we drifted through the crystalline fiords. Totally unspoiled and almost unpopulated, the woods were a sort of Eden for us. I found myself stuck on "Islands" and its appropriately evocative lyrics about islands and wind-turned waves; indeed, I'd brought an old guitar on the trip and one night, the sun still not having set at 2 am (those northern latitudes), I found myself picking out the chords to "Islands" while sitting at water's edge. Like something out of Penthouse Forum, who should drift over from the tents but Jetta. She sat down and, just as islands join hands, so did we. One thing led to another but ultimately all inroads led nowhere as first she, and then I, realized that going further would probably just lead to broken hearts -- or at least mine (Rule #1: Never let them know how much it means to you). We stopped and she asked me to play "that song." And to this day, I cannot hear "that song" without being transported back to that scene and its initial feelings of hope, followed by rejection, followed by the warmth of an intimacy borne of understanding. There would be no paddle-pulling with Jetta. But longing is an exquisite happiness nonetheless; the gulls mournfully glide o'er my island yet beneath the wind-turned wave there is an infinite peace. Alright, so the lyrics are a little overwrought, but Crimso was in its adolescence and so was I. It was a good fit. That's my story. A bawdier one involves a college suitemate named Steve who liked to do the goo with his sweetie to the beat of "The Talking Drum." Their sessions were legend campus-wide, as it was hard not to feel a participant, what with Steve's not-intended-for-more-than-one-occupant bed squeaking and creaking, the frame's gray tubular steel pounding the party wall with each plunge of his pulsating pillar of pleasure and their ecstatic cries mixing with the shrieky musical climax. (Invariably, this would be followed by the sound of feet on the floor as Steve potted down the 10/4 complexity of LTIA2, asked "Where are the matches?" and then fired up yet another chunk of what must have been a camel hump's worth of Afghan black hash.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 03:30:35 -0500 From: Chris Frain Organization: University of Maryland Subject: Another Crimso Sighting... Just another item for the King Crimson absurd sightings file: My wife and I were on our honeymoon last July in the New Hampshire/Vermmont area and while driving into Stowe, VT, we passed a hotel/bed and breakfast establishment named "The Crimson King (Inn)". It had a big sign of a red maple leaf near its driveway (any Canadian botanists out there?). Needless to say, it made my day despite the enormous amount of fun we were already having up there. That's all. Listening to "The Howler" (and really liking it), -- Christopher K. Frain Department of Government and Politics University of Maryland, College Park cfrain at wam dot umd dot edu http://www.bsos.umd.edu/gvpt/cfrain/' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:38:08 -0700 From: "Roderich v. Detten" Organization: Institut f|r Forstvkonomie Subject: the crimson Cunningham Dear fellow crimheads ! With the risk of contributing to an already discussed topic: last week I found a second album concerning the collaboration between Krimson-members and the british guitarist/producer/artist David Cunningham and therefore would like to recommend the following two recordings: 1) (michael)giles / (jamie) muir / (david)cunningham: ghost dance; 1995; piano - recors (PO box 5, derwentshire, co durham DH9 7HR), recorded 3-6 may 1983 percussion dominated, ritual dance-pieces, loops and mantras; some parts remind of Larks' tongues in aspic pt.1 2) david cunningham: water (with Robert Fripp on the first track: "stars"); 1992; Made to Measure / Crammed Discsa guitar texture by Fripp on "stars", repeated at different pitches , the other tracks are short soundscapes that remind of Eno, David Sylvian (Gone To Earth, 2nd disc) or Fripp Both recordings share an "ambient" - like approach : music for the concentrated and analytically listener. Cunningham himself describes it as music, where "texture, continuity and acoustic space are as important as melody or harmony"and that gives "the opportunity for the listener to explore a method of listening which is not based on the prescriptive nature of classical form or that of European art music": I have nothing to add to this. Just a paraphrase: music for a midnight-playback, with the headphones on or played loud in dark rooms or staircases. If you neglect both of the (heavyweight? or just kryptic?) prefaces of the albums or not: highly recommended! greetings.. Hochachtungsvoll Roderich ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:48:33 +0100 From: Baz Page Subject: Wetton in Croydon. Croydon? In response to Rolfe Welde Skeie and someone from Cambridge ET#372... I went to see John Wetton at the Ashcroft Theatre, Fairfield Halls, Croydon on the 20th April, and thought I ought to share it with you. The Fairfield Halls complex is an excellent venue, where a number of (prog rock) live albums were recorded in the 70s. The Ashcroft Theatre is more used to proper theatre crowds than rock fans - it's clean and has comfy seats. I don't think it was such a sell out as it ought to have been, though JW did say that a couple had come over from Barcelona to see the show (Croydon has such brilliant transport links) Set list: ITDON Sole Survivor Voice of America (guitar solo ?Bill Liesegang) Battlelines Arkangel (acoustic) The Night Watch (acoustic) Book of Saturday (acoustic) The Smile Has Left Your Eyes Thirty Years Hold Me Now Only Time will Tell (?sp Quilmes - keyboard solo - Martin Orford) Rendezvous 6:02 (drum solo - Thomas Lang) Caught in the Crossfire Easy Money Starless encore Heat of the Moment Don't Cry This was the best I'd seen them play (I've now seen this line up three times.) If the guitarist, who wasn't introduced, really was Bill Liesegang, he has obviously been rehearsing his lines. He's certainly no Robert Fripp or Allan Holdsworth, but his timing has improved, and ITDON was not quite as embarassing as it has been in the past. His volume was pretty well controlled too. The Night Watch had a midi jingling (a la SABB) introduction, and was a delight to hear. Book of Saturday, played for the Spanish visitors, had Martin Orford playing flute. JW introduced Thomas Lang as being the best drummer that he'd worked with, but BB could have consumed this guy for breakfast. Easy Money (complete with 'lickin fudge lyrics) had a pretty good improvised middle section, but JW appeared to have forgotten the words to the last verse. Starless was good, played in its entirety. It might not have had the sheer force of the Red version or the Great Deceiver versions, but it was good to hear it all and live and now. The set (including encores) lasted a little less than two hours. It was UKP 8.50 well spent, despite having to put up with two awful support bands (one a derivative sub post-Hackett Genesis and the other just plain weird). The sound was pretty good (Croydon does have the best acoustics south of central London) JW should join the David Cross band (the two appeared at the Astoria in ?May 1996) It's the only solution. Gareth Page ------------------------------ From: Matt Walsh Subject: ET King Crimson tribute update Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 11:27:00 PDT Hello, Just wanted to keep everyone up to date with the progress of the tribute. Dan Kirkdorffer has been nice enough to help out with getting a web page for the project, so to save bandwidth here, check out the ET Web for all the information, which I hope is descript enough. I had set a deadline for people to contact me for being on the tribute to be March 31st. A total of 22 people volenteered, and surpisingly enough, not one song was dominant not on people's lists, in fact, no song was on more than 2 people's lists! While the date was set at March 31st, anyone can still participate (I needed a guide for participants to go by). I know people had mentioned ETers getting together to record something, so I know that can be time consuming. Just get back to me if you are interested and have not gotten in touch with me yet. The deadline for submissions is set to be September 31st. Well, as I mentioned, check out the ET Web for all the juicy details, and I will try to keep it updated as much as possible. Any questions/comments, please let me know. Thanks again to Toby, Dan, and everyone else who have helped/offered to help. Matt Walsh mattw at smginc dot com Currently listening to: Anathema - "Eternity" ------------------------------ From: bbacher at harding dot com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 6:39:56 CDT Subject: Stealth Guitar I was recently watching one of those gee-whiz-new-technology shows on the Discovery Channel (sorry - forgot which) where they talked about a new guitar, called the "Stealth Guitar" (SG). The important difference between the SG and a standard guitar is that there is a twist in the neck, supposedly making it MUCH more comfortable to play when the hand runs out to the end of the neck. (It has other less important features, like LEDs along the neck at the fret locations, supposedly making it easier to play in a darkened venue...) I don't play guitar, but I'm very interested in guitars and those who play them. I'm wondering whether any of you guitar virtuosos out there (Boppin' Bobby??) have any experience with it? I have a couple of questions, strictly out of curiousity: 1) If you have experience with it, what is your opinion of it? 2) If you have no experience with it, what is your opinion of the concept of twisting the neck slightly to make it more comfortable? 3) Is this really as revolutionary as the program made it sound? 4) Do you think this will take off, rather than fading into oblivion? 5) If it takes off, how will it affect the quality/quantity/diversity/complexity/etc. of music on the whole? ------------------------------ From: sparker at iphase dot com (Steve Parker) Subject: re:bathwater Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:35:06 -0500 (CDT) In ET #372, Eb pontificates: > Ewwww...once again, I squirm in agony. Repeat after me, everyone: COMPLEX > IS NOT NECESSARILY BETTER THAN SIMPLE. TEN CHORDS ARE NOT NECESSARILY > BETTER THAN THREE. 5/4 IS NOT NECESSARILY BETTER THAN 4/4. YES IS NOT > NECESSARILY BETTER THAN THE SEX PISTOLS. Eb begins by attempting to show us he is a reasonable, fair minded music lover/critic. No real argument with the above, if a little pompous. (By the way, Eb, we are not necessarily hard of hearing/seeing. Save the caps, ok? It's insulting.) But, he then blows his cover and shows his true identity: > (In fact, it's easy to argue that > Never Mind The Bollocks... is more important to music history than Yes' > entire recorded catalog.) Har-dee-har-har. I couldn't stop laughing. Eb, you've a great career in comedy ahead, if this is indicative of your material. And here we thought you were serious all along. Good one. I'd love to hear this argument, Eb. I'm sure we could all use some more laughs. While our dearly beloved Crimso certainly showed us all, musicians and listeners alike, a brave, new musical world, it was Yes (and, to a lesser degree, ELP) that made prog palatable for the masses, AND got it played on commercial radio, all without any compromise to their sound or songwriting. This earns Yes equal historical significance to KC and the aforementioned Pistols, in my book. I don't wish to spark a great debate here, but let's give credit where it's due. Yes helped to send up the prog balloon, and the Pistols were the pinprick that let out some of the hot air. They stand side by side in my Rock History book, though for very different reasons. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:19:16 -0400 From: "Richard R. Rossi" Subject: TEN SECONDS, ANYONE? I picked up the TEN SECONDS cd based on hearing track 14 - THE LAST THREE MINUTES - on the SOMETIMES GOD HIDES sampler. All in all, it's pretty good; I would personally refer to it along the lines of techno-pop. "Fingers" Fripp is featured on Guitar and Soundscapes on a number of tracks. Unfortunately, it's not quite catching my ear enough to keep it in "the collection." Anyone interested in trading? I'm open to suggestions, if anyone would like to expand my horizons. RRR rrrossi at netstep dot net ------------------------------ From: "Dan Wasser" Subject: Beat .... did anyone care? Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:15:51 -0400 So I was at the local Borders book store (for those of you unfamiliar with Borders, it's a huge book store AND a huge music store that also has a cafe area where they sell different kinds of coffee and danish and you can sit and read any relax........) Anyway ......they had a display table, in the middle of the store, of the books of the Beat Generation: Jack Kerouac, Neal Cassidy, William Burroughs, and Allen Ginsberg (whose recent death was their inspiration for the display, I suppose), and others. Well, I went downstairs to the CD section, grabbed "Beat" and placed it smack in the middle of the display. Do you think anyone noticed? Dan ------------------------------ Subject: manners and questions From: jwilcox2 at juno dot com (John Wilcox) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:11:50 EDT Toby - Greetings to you and all Crimson fans. I'm relatively new to this newsletter, but already find myself wondering: why are so many folk finding it necessary to praise KC at the expense of another band? Is this the best use of our collective discussion space? I entreat all to try and focus on more positive avenues of discourse. Speaking of which - I'd like to cast a topic to the wind, and see who takes up the gauntlet: simply put - what attracts you to King Crimson music? For my part, I was first exposed to the band via a discarded 8-track of Lark's Tongues back in '74 (I was 14 at the time). I was well put off at first, but soon came back to it , as it was so very different from the music I had heard up to that point. Talking Drum was what sold me at the time - I found the exoticness of it quite stimulating to my 14 year old brain. 23 years later, KC still stimulate my brain with interesting and challenging combinations of sound textures that both please and irritate (in a good way). No more, no less. 'bye for now. Your humble servant John Anthony Wilcox p.s. - I hope I have correctly formatted this to the necessary standards. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 09:56:10 -0700 From: Christopher Jepson Subject: What were those punks thinking anyway? I think all this talk about punks being "leftists" is slightly off the mark. True, there have been many leftist punks (e.g., the Clash and MDC), but there have also been many Nazi punks. I think the quintessential punkstance is not leftist but nihilist, i.e., against everything. Lester Bangs clearly explained the reason for punks' hostility to "progressive" rock: Rock & roll was originally an extremely populist music. The idea was that any teenager could get a beat-up guitar, learn three chords, set up a tape recorder in his parents' garage, and possibly make a great rock & roll record and become a star. Progressive rock, by contrast, was essentially elitist: You had to have virtuoso musicians and thousands of dollars worth of state-of-the-art musical equipment. Punk's great, if temporary, achievement was to reclaim the populist strain in rock. As a person who loves both progressive music and punk, I used to be irritated by this hostility -- which, by the way, did not start with the punks; King Crimson apparently faced it right from the start. I thought it was based on the faulty assumption that rock had to be *either* populist *or* elitist, so that helping one camp meant hurting the other. (Repeat after me: Two-valued logic is dumb!) I think that the intervening years have demonstrated that the musical landscape is spacious enough for both. Of course, there is a separate but related issue: The fact that the music industry has, since the 1970s, been more or less dominated by large corporations that are interested in money, not music, and in order to maximize money, tend to pour their resources into established acts making familiar, formulaic music. Unlike progressive rock, these non-musical forces are inherently inimical to populism, and when they become too dominant, active rebellion does make sense. In the mid-70's, many of the "dinosaur" bands being supported by the industry did carry the "progressive" label (Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd), making it easy for the two issues to be blurred. I'll get off my soapbox now -- Chris Jepson "The only absolute certainty is that the situation is not exactly as it seems." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:51:52 -0400 From: jprice at intcpi dot com (John Price) Organization: INTELLISOFT, CPI Subject: Attn: Philadelphia, PA ( Downtown ET'rs) This is a blatant ad. soliciting responses from all Philadelphia, PA based KC/ET enthusiasts(musicians & non-musicians) who are interested in coming together for the express purpose of becoming a cohesive band without the explicit interest of duplicating the KC/Fripp sound. ( Besides, no one else does Fripp better than Fripp. so why bother trying not to be yourself? ) I decided to post here because I am truly an avid enthusiast and I thought I would realistically find a better response here than in the local papers or by posting leaflets to telephone poles. Mr. Fripp & Co. brings possibilities in approach to guitar, music and its practice that are truly remakable and quite expandable from numerous points of orginal perspective. Im looking for persons who are conscious of their influences ( internally-externally ) but capable of going / looking/ finding other directions where ultimately their influences are transcended along with all preconceived notions of what a band is/can be prior to going to "the magic place ", - a new collective reality that is nurtured, enhanced and somewhat refined or continually reinterpreted is what a band should be - its the only definition i have. I hope this message does not get bounced. PSYCHOHEAD (Copyright 1991, ILP, Ltd.) PLANS ON REGROUPING Laundry List of Psycho Behavior: Looking for an experienced female vocalist/lyricist (25 and up, Center City only) along with other experienced versatile musicians/non musicians (Center City Area only - 25 and up) who are interested in pushing original perspectives and possible/impossible boundaries. You hate simple definitions or categorization of style/genre along with all the ads you've seen describing the ideal sound as a cross between this band and that group or this era as opposed to another. (You are wise enough to know if you define it before you attempt it then its already dead ) you have extremely ecclectic tastes ranging from the truly vulgar to the culturally refined and are interested in exploring the grey lines in between. you have a deep appreciation of the subtle, paradox and chaos. you are bored by the 70's retro altrerna rehash/ redux and will puke if you see another hardcore band or mosh pit...the dance floor is the same wherever you go... you feel like rock died a long time ago but u would like to believe it can be reinvented and bastardized from areas as yet unheard of. You have a healthy skepticism as opposed to cynicism. you are motivated by transcending your influences and you are also proudly an outsider to the "scene" or want to be badly all over again. you are mature, clever and though you are a little older now, you remain extremely open minded and interested in the possibilities that can arise with the right chemistry. You are unafraid of technology and are willing to embrace it wholeheartedly when needed. Oh yes, you also have a sense of humor and a great deal of patience/interpersonal skills. Please Contact me jprice at intcpi dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:56:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Christie Subject: Thrak and others Hi everybody, Well, I finally figured something out. I was listening to Thrak the other night and I suddenly came to me--I love this album!! It used to annoy me--the first time I heard it, my reaction was "what is this giant distorted wall of noise!?!" And I mainly stuck to the vocal songs. I mean, I loved the Larks/Starless/Red albums for their absolute classical perfection, and the Discipline/Beat/ToaPP albums for that intricately interlocking pointillistic guitarwork, but current Crimson?? But when I thought about it, that was the same reaction I had when I listened to Discipline. I couldn't get a handle on it right away, but when I did, I couldn't get enough of it. Who cared what it was? It was just incredible. And now I feel that way about Thrak. I just LOVE Vrooom and B'Boom and Thrak, turn up the volume to 11, I want to take it higher! I feel that every time I listen to something new from Crimson, they challenge my complacent listening habits again and again. I can't wait to see what kind of weirdness they're going to come up with for the next album. Robert reminds me of Mr. Spock. Supremely logical mind, superhuman self discipline, but deep down inside, a vein of "does this guy know how to party or what?!?". And finally, I'd like to share with you my favorite Robert solos (in sort of order). Thanks to the lovely and talented Tim Foster for the idea. 10. Fallen Angel--Well, all of it. I can't pin down a particular section. 9. Elephant Talk--House O'Blues, 1995. Robert sprayed burning guitar over the crowd. If you don't have a copy of this show, get it. Really. 8. Great Deceiver intro--Great Deceiver Box set. A screaming across the sky. 7. Thela Hun Ginjeet--Live in Japan--the king of incredible finishes. 6. Thela Hun Ginjeet--LA Friday's show. So full of red hot energy and enthusiasm. 5. The Night Watch--GD box set, disc 2. I am amazed by the incredible beauty, subtlety, and infinite sadness of Robert's playing. Hearing this song almost makes me believe God exists. 4. Easy Money intro--GD box set, disc 1. I just love the wickedly sexy depravity of the guitar work here. 3. LTiA--ToaPP Live in Japan video. Talk about intelligent heavy metal, there's only one word for it--fierce. 2. Sartori in Tangiers--Live in Japan video. Words cannot describe. 1. Schizoid Man--Berkeley Greek, July 1995. He just whales the HELL outta that guitar. Robert must have the most nimble fingers in the universe. Thank you and goodnight. Christie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 02:00:44 GMT From: KIM_FYSON Subject: Wetton at Croydon Following my very poor opinion of John Wetton's band when I saw them at Wilbarston, I am pleased to say that at Croydon they were far superior. They had the advantage of a larger hall to dissipate their overblown sound and had some theatrical lights to play with. It all helps. This was a show worth watching and there were some great moments - Easy Money was good and even Starless was acceptable although, Billy Liesegang on guitar was happier with the more straightforward Wetton and Asia songs. I still reckon that Wetton shouldn't play the acoustic guitar. He is one of the most inventive and fluid bass players around and should stick to that. The drum solo was excellent again but please get rid of the keyboard player..... Kim Fyson CAMBRIDGE England ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 97 00:03:27 EDT From: "Richard J. Ruland" <74144 dot 2674 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: NYC Signing I attended the NYC prerelease party on 4/26. I was dissapointed that the Epitaph 4CD set was unavailable for purchase. Actually, how can one be disappointed when the admission was free? Would you please add me to your mailing list? I have a Larks Tongue tatoo on my right shoulder, perhaps that validates my subscription in some way? ------------------------------ From: max dot bracco at iol dot it Date: Sun, 27 Apr 97 19:48:09 Subject: KC clones, but good ones Hi to all Eters Recently in ET Porcupine Tree has emerged as a band that might appeal to KC fans. It's a good prog band indeed, but of course isn't innovative and experimental as KC has always been. PTree are interesting for their use of samples (Miles Davis rhytms and Popol Vhu choirs in their CD "Up the down stair") , but are closer to No-Man neo-classicism (one of them is actually coming from that band) and to Ozric Tentacles in their fondness for astral riffs. If you're looking for really impressive and maniacal replicas of KC glory, I'd suggest you a couple of closer names : ANEKDOTEN is a swedish band who to my knowledge cut two albums so far : "Vemod" and "Nucleus". They're very deep in the Larks-Fracture-Starless mood, with chord-abrasive guitar, full distorted monument bass and mellotron. Sometimes they rock really hard and furious, sometimes they're dark. The vocals sound more like Peter Hammill than John Wetton. While the first disc is clearly more derivative (they even managed to squeeze quotations from "Sailor's tale" "Easy Money" and "Fracture" in a single track !) , the second is a good step forward in molding their own sound but still in strong KC heritage. They recorded in '93 and '95, but it's amazing how their sound is close to those 70's albums ! ANEKDOTEN have a web page as well, but sorry, I did'nt bookmark it. Anyway you'll find it easily using Altavista. Another band concentrating on KC , but 80's era, is PHILARMONIE. Their 4th album "Rage" is closer than ever to the Discipline sound. They come from Canada and their line-up is Chapman Stick, two electric guitars (one fretless) and drums. Sounds familiar, huh ? Completely instrumental, the album explores the odd rhythms, pattern contraposition and fast manual repetition distinctive of KC mark 80. It should appeal a lot also to GuitCraft fans. This CD is more aggressive than Philarmonie's previous albums, and for this reason the connection with KC sounds more evident ; but these guys have great technique and pretty ideas, so they manage to have a flavour of their own. It's released on Cuneiform Records, so that should be quite easy to purchase specially for american friends. A recent discovery for me has been BOUD DEUN, an american combo consisting of electric guitar, electric violin, bass and drums Sometimes they sound like Fripp, Cross and Bruf in the good ol'days (a la "Great Deceiver") but they step also in other prog and jazz-rock formats. Their blowing is fast, busy, full of rage and energy, but they write also carefully crafted puzzles. The Cd I found is the latest called "Astronomy made easy",and I know they cut at least another one. If anybody know them well, please let me know if it's as good as this one. Last but not least, BI KYO RAN, a japanese band really fond of any KC gesture, from '69 (slow songs) to '74 (fast stuff). They even wrote a song in which the theme is the Larks Pt 1 Fripp solo ! And they cut a complete live album of KC covers (Live vol.4). Their discs are really derivative and quite difficult to find, 'cause are all japanese pressings. If any Swedish, American, English or Japanese friend have ever heard these bands live, please let us know. In the meantime you can enjoy lot of exciting Crimsonian music while waiting for the next real Crimson release. Bye MAX from ITALY ------------------------------ From: max dot bracco at iol dot it Date: Sun, 27 Apr 97 19:47:57 Subject: Sinfield collaborations In ET 369 Greg Forster wrote : "Can anyone tell me if Peter Sinfield has collaborated significantly with any other writers since his Crimson days. I'm aware of his contribution to Gary Brooker's debut album,and a few "one-off" songs,but beyond this I'm lost." If my memory isn't wrong, he wrote English lyrycs for the international versions of 2 or 3 albums by PFM, an Italian prog band of the seventies. I think one was titled "Photos of ghosts" ... but I'm not sure 100 per cent about it, since I have the Italian versions with Italian lyrics. Probably some other american or english Eters might own the English versions and could confirm if my memory is right or wrong. Bye MAX from ITALY ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:40:23 -0400 (EDT) From: FISHBOY Subject: Epitaph in NYC Hello Elephant Talkers, I was one of those lucky enough to attend the second Epitaph premiere in NYC. A little bit about me - I'm 24, and have been a fan of King Crimson in its various incarnations (some more than others) for the past three or four years. Like Fripp and a lot of fans, though, I think there was definitely something special about the original lineup. So when I heard they would be having another Epitaph gethering in NYC, there was no question that I would be there (my friends felt the same way). Six of us drove in from Stony Brook on Long Island. We got there early and were between about the 10th and 20th spots on the line that eventually grew to maybe 2-300. Before joining the line, a few of us bought Epitaoh (they were only selling the 2CD version; quite a steal at $20) and started looking it over. On the house PA they would play something from Epitaph every few songs. For some reason they played "Indoor Games" once also, which shocked the hell out of us. :) The band members could be seen arriving as they descended the escalator one by one at various points in the afternoon. Finally at 3:00, the band members were introduced and approached the little stage area. They received a rousing response as "Epitaph" played over the PA system. I had goose bumps. Fripp began speaking about what factors had to come together before this music could be released (record company, technology, etc.). At some point he mentioned that this music had value when it was recorded, and the question was whether it still had value today. I don't know if he intended for this to be a rhetorical question, but I think the audience response left no doubt that, yes, it does. :) After talking for a while, Fripp opened the floor to questions, and we got to hear each member talk about various topics. They all gave interesting, heartfelt responses (I wish I had taped this - did anyone?). I noticed that Greg still has a really powerful, resonant voice. The range is obviously lower than it used to be, but you could hear the power in it when he spoke. Seeing the four guys together speaking so reverently about the music they created together was moving beyond words. I felt tears well up in my eyes at a couple of points. Ian gave a telling response to one of several people who inquired about the possibility of a reunion of this band. He said something to the effect of "It's something I'm sure we've all thought about at one point or another, but for that to happen, there would have to be unanimous agreement by the band members for it to work. If you took a vote now, there would be a majority in agreement on it, but you'd need it to be unanimous." I guess that means that all but one of them would want to try to give it another go. Fripp, when responding to a question about the possibility of a 30 year reunion with all past band members in 1999, replied something in effect of "Well, King Crimson has gone through various incarnations, none of which replaces any of those preceeding it. There *is* a King Crimson right now. [applause] I just flew up from Adrian Belew's house and I'm returning there tomorrow to continue rehearsals with the double trio. [huge response from crowd] But I think I would find it rather strange to be a member of five to six different King Crimsons simultaneously." [laughter] Those are the most interesting responses I can recall. After a while of the Q&A they signed autographs. The period of time when I was actually up there thanking these guys for their music and getting their autographs went by much too quickly. :) I witnessed two instances of Fripp's sense of humor, though: A friend of my mine didn't have any Fripp material with him, just the McDonald and Giles LP. He apologized to Fripp and asked to him to sign a blank sheet of looseleaf paper, which he handed him with the album underneath to give him a hard surface to write on (there was some sort of soft tablecloth on their table). Fripp squiggled two horizontal lines on each side of the paper, handing it back to my friend. He then proceeded to draw a dialogue bubble coming out of Ian McDonald's mouth on the record jacket, containing the words "I am not Robert Fripp." The look on my friend's face was priceless. :) The second instance involved a woman who was behind us on line. While signing her ITCOTK LP jacket, Fripp drew a big dialogue bubble coming out of the Schizoid Man's mouth. It said "Boo!" Those were my highlights of the day. After we got our things signed, as we were getting ready to leave, I kept taking "one more look" at these four men on the stage; men who, 28 years ago, produced the innovating, haunting, captivating, dangerous music playing over the PA, and then disbanded after what it seems most of them agree was a hastily made decision. I wanted to savor this moment. Andy Acunzo aacunzo at ccmail dot sunysb dot edu ------------------------------ From: "Mr. Mestoffelees" Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:28:30 +0000 Subject: A glorious day, and a question I was fortunate to attend the Epitaph signing in NYC over the past weekend. It was truly a great experience. The "burning question" in my mind now only is Why is one of the 21st Century Schizoid Men dedicated to Spiro Agnew? And secondly, did anyone else notice a flavor of Hendrix in Get Thy Bearings? Travel, Weary (and Bleary) Capricorns, Vincent Ciaccio jackburden at pointblank dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:11:42 -0700 From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: KC at HMV Records I could not travel from California to NY on such short notice, so I asked my brother in Alexandria, VA to attend in my place (he lived in Manhattan for a few years and drives there frequently). He could not leave the DC area during the weekend so he asked a friend to go. I think this friend is a student at the Cornell medical school. The friend is not a KC fan and knows almost nothing about them. But he was kind enough to wait for 2 hours to get a 2-cd set of "Epitaph" signed by the 4 KC members who were present. I have not spoken to him yet so I do not know who the missing member was. Both the booklet and cd surface were signed. As I have already ordered the 4-cd set, the 2-cd copy will be display-only. Mike Tanigawa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:37:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Cervero Subject: Could two KCs co-exist? For the second time in six weeks, I got to experience the Epitaph playback and meet members of the original band. (By sheer coincidence, and perhaps rubbed by the charm of KC's "Good Fairy", I was in New York that week on business.) I'll leave the review of the playback to others. What nearly floored me was Fripp's response to an audience-band Q&A and what it could imply. After standing in a queue that snaked through the basement floor of the HMV store on NYC's upper east side for an hour (and with prespiration levels noticeably rising, sauna-like), the band members (minus Pete Sinfield) stepped in through a rear exit door to a thunderous applause, then proceeded to take their seats at an autograph table. Fripp invited folks to ask band members questions (though only if of "burning importance"). I was unfortunately far from the stage, so I couldn't hear all of the questions. Midway through, someone asked "what were the chances of the original band getting together again and recording". Ian McDonald responded first, saying something to effect that this had been discussed on an ocassion or two among several of the members and anything was possible. I believe Mike Giles chirped in a brief comment as well, but I couldn't make out what he said. What was a stunner, however, was Robert Fripp's reply. He talked about there not being "a" King Crimson, but rather many King Crimsons, with each incarnation having importance and expressing itself in its own way. He noted there is currently a working King Crimson (to an loud applause) and that he's heading to Nashville after the playback to continue working with the Double Trio on a new release. He went on to say that there's no bad feelings among the original members and that they all remain good friends. And then he said something to the effect (not an exact quote), "so far as getting the original band together again, all I can say is the rest of the members know my telephone number; all they've got to do is give me a call". Woooooooa!! I was stunned. I thought, maybe this fantascy about the original band re-grouping that's been lingering in the depths of my psyche for a quarter-century or so isn't so nutty, so far-fetched, so outlandish afterall! Is it possible, or desirable for that matter, for two or more King Crimson's to co-exist? Why not? King Crimson has always been a vehicle (some might say a revolving door) for Fripp to express his musical proclivities and test unchartered waters in the prog and rock idiom. Having two active bands of the same name would be a first -- being first, of course, is a Crimson trademark. This is a band that has always revelled in challenging musical orthodoxy and, through the hubris of its leader, resisted all temptations to sell-out to the commercial music industry. Why not two bands, or even three? There could be a King Crimson Mach I (original line-up), Mach II (Wetton-Cross era -- remember, Fripp and Wetton guest-appear on Cross's forthcoming release), and Mach III (Double-Trio). I talked to David Singleton of DGM about, what only months earlier would have been utterly inconceivable, the 1969 band reforming. He mentioned the idea of the original band getting together again had been discussed in the past, and the view was that everything had to be perfectly in synch for this to happen. He then said that Ian McDonald strongly believes now is the right time for the original band to reconstitute itself -- there's the right celestial alignment. Evidently Mike Giles is also game -- hell, he even auditioned for the open drummer's slot in the Double Trio formation. And now Fripp makes a public statement that suggests he's receptive to the possibility. The big question mark is Greg Lake. He was conspicuously mum on the question about the band regrouping. In light of ELP's underwhelming success at regrouping in recent times, maybe even he'd consider it a chance to recharge his batteries and take on a new challenge (recall Lake's brief stint with Asia, proving he's not wedded to ELP). And then there's good ole Pete Sinfield -- he's been busy tunesmithing for the likes of Celine Dion, so why not pen some poetry for his old chums? (My guess is that he'd be relieved of strobe light duties.) The idea of two or more KC's operating in parallel might sound heretic to some. Die-hard enthusiasts of the Double-Trio formation no doubt would view the other KCs as distractions. And I'm sure some would find the idea of multiple bands using the KC moniker to be unsettling. Of course, it's not the name that matters so much as the music -- so I frankly wouldn't care what they called themselves. [Maybe they could follow in the steps of "The Artist formerly known as Prince" and call themselves "The Artists formerly known as King Crimson". Or since several former members seem to have a fondness for using surnames for their bands (Giles, Giles, and Fripp; McDonald and Giles; ELP), maybe the reconstituted band could be called "Fripp, Lake, McDonald, Giles, and Sinfield", or for short, FLMGS, or better yet, FLaMinGoS, or how about, instead of the Crimson King, the Pink Flamingos?....o.k., I'll stop.] Since I was only one of a handful of folks to attend both playbacks, I'll close by comparing the two. Besides the absence of Peter Sinfield and those wonderful "little beasts", the New York gathering was quite different in its ambiance. The London occasion was, for want of a better word, rather "civil", in a proper British tradition. Everyone sat politely and rather demurely through the playback and, as a result, there wasn't much of an exchange or a give-and-take with the band. Instead, attendees heard about how Epitaph, the CD boxset, was digitally resurrected, which wasn't really discussed in New York. In polar contrast to the Brits, the New York crowd was, well, much more New York-like -- hooting and hollering, shouting questions, engaging the band members, and much more varied (noticeably more women and more teens). And to my great surprise, a lot of folks, myself included, were openly snapping photos of the band, including close-ups of Fripp. Unlike in London, where he asked a photographer to stop taking photos while standing at the podium, Robert seemed resigned to that fact that bands appearing in the public are fair game in the Big Apple. Another difference. After the London playback, some 20-30 loyal fans assembled in a nearby pub to continue the celebration into the wee hours, and we were even joined by Mike Giles. There was no such after-event gathering in NYC that I could tell. Even though I was already in New York City that week, I harbored some doubts about whether doing this again was such a great idea (though my rational self kept reminding me that if I could fly all the way to London for this, I sure as hell could take a short subway ride to partake one more time). I'm now I glad did. The two playbacks were quite different, each providing a different and entertaining glimpse into what made up this original band. For me, it wasn't like seeing the same movie twice; rather, it was more like taking the same thrill ride at two different theme parks. Maybe it's still hopelessly wishful thinking that the original band will regroup. But then again, maybe it's not. I for one would love to have two King Crimsons. For me, the more, the merrier. I can just see it now -- the subtitle of the reconstituted King Crimson's first release in some three decades: "An Observation by the Flamingos". Robert Cervero, Professor College of Environmental Design University of California, Berkeley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 00:35:54 -0500 From: Roy DeRousse Subject: "The Making of 'Burning for Buddy'" Video Has anyone seen a video by Neil Peart (of Rush) called "The Making of 'Burning for Buddy'?" Here is the description from an ad I saw: "Neil Peart invited 18 of the world's most respected drummers to record a tribute album to the great Buddy Rich. This video was shot during those sessions. It contains preparations for the recording, final takes, interviews, control room footage, and moving recollections of the master from Neil Peart." It is a two volume set. This is of interest to ET readers, of course, because Bill Bruford was one of those 18 drummers. The CD is fantastic! The music is strictly jazz, with not a trace of rock present, so non-fans of jazz need not bother. Most of the songs are covers of Buddy Rich tunes, but Bill offers an original composition that is slightly more offbeat than the other tracks. So my question is this: Is Bill Bruford on either volume of the video anywhere? The ad I saw features the tapes for $39.95 each, so I would like to know if Bill is on either tape before deciding whether to buy them. I'm sure the tapes would be interesting on their own merits, but the price is a bit steep for me. For what it's worth, the place I saw the ad for is called Music Emporium. They have a toll-free number 1-800-648-8460 and a website at http://www.musicemporium.com. I have never ordered from them, so I can't vouch for their service. -- Have fun! Roy DeRousse (relayer at iname dot com) St. Louis, Missouri, USA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 03:37:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Beatlsaur at aol dot com Subject: K.C should decide sets and encores Greetings all ET'ers I'm sure you realize that as Crimson fans we are a select few. I don't think it is a very good idea to continue suggesting which songs are better than others to play live. Obviously Crimson is nothing like a top 40 band with crazed teens slamming and yelling out at concerts: "Play Starless Dude". We have a sophistication that, hopefully, accepts the entire live Crimson experience-no matter if they play something from 75 0r 95. When we start exerting our opinions on set-lists we enter into the illusion that we are the Band. We are the fans. Its great to exchange opinions about the sets among ourselves. However it is very precocious to assume that we should take a vote and send the results to R.F. in hopes that he will yield to the demands of the mob. Why not let the boys decide which tunes they FEEL will define an excellent night of live Crimsomusic. So far they have been quite successful at making the artistic decisions on their own. Always: Beatlsaur ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 03:51:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Beatlsaur at aol dot com Subject: Post Script: Re: Xavier Dear Xavier: The mere fact that you suggest that K.C. is a slave to the market of we consumers, says volumes. Fripp will never bow to your personal vision as a fan, I thank god for that. Fripp is an artist of uncomprimising attitude who needs no direction whatsoever from any of us. Let HIM decide what songs he feels like playing without threatening some type of retaliation in terms of cd sales! Always-Beatlsaur ------------------------------ From: David Oskardmay - BSG Corporation Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:19:36 -0400 Subject: Discipline tattoo--it's possible! Hi, Our drummer recently had the Discipline logo tattooed on his shoulder. Supposedly it was almost 100% accurate except for 1 mistake. So, it is possible! I'm sure Jeff would be interested in getting email questions about his tattoo: jdlindsey at micron dot com ..and by the way, my email address is changing to davido42 at mindspring dot com in case you want to harrass me personally. Have a day! david ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:31:39 -0400 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Bobby and the Crims at HMV Hi all I arrived at the HMV at 86th and Lex at about 12:15 p.m. for the 3 o'clock playback of Epitaph and expected to be way too late to be near the front but found out that I was the third person there. there was no seating available and the only setup was a table on a low stage with four chairs and mic stands. One of the other two guys(he was first--he got there at 10:30) was citing chapter and verse of outlandish errata that was his understanding of Crimson lore(it afforded me an opportunity to silently give thanks for the vitamin fortified Elephant Talk digest). I only stepped in and offered information when this guy went dangerously near the deep end. As the afternoon progressed I found that I had become the lecturer(unintentionally). Lecturer No. 1 asked which KC albums I had and was flabergasted when I replied that I had them all. Other people gradually trickled in as the hour approached, but it still wasn't the jam-packed zoo that I had anticipated. There were displays with every sort of DGM merch imaginable. The topic of the much debated male/female ratio came up and I would estimate that it was a 5 to 10 percent female crowd, many of them probably dragged in by boyfriends. Many guys were much older that I (39)--some probably well into their fifties. The first Crim to turn up at 2:30 was Michael Giles. He didn't look a day older than he did on the cover of MacDonald & Giles. About ten minutes later, Boppin' Bobby breezed through to a smattering of whoops, which he didn't really acknowledge, but he did seem to have a slightly pleased grin on. Next in was Greg Lake, and I had heard talk but I didn't really believe that he was that HUGE! When they were finally announced and filed onto the stage, the response was overwhelming. When the clamour died down to silence, RF leaned into a mic and just said, "hi." Several hundred of us replied in unison. He egan by saying that Pete Sinfield had planned to attend but had become very ill and sent his best wishes for those of us in attendance. Then followed about a half hour of Q and A, much of it concerning the relationships within the group and the possibility of them performing and/or recording together again. RF replied "If any one of these guys wanted me to join them in an endevour, all they would have to do is call me on the phone and ask. I would gladly do so...if time permitted." MacDonald(who looked very much like a Wall St. broker) chimed in, "Well, Bob, now that you mention it...". The crowd went nuts and RF blushed slightly. One old hippie in the back queried in a psychotropic fugue asking how the band felt about how they were giving the audience blown minds and other assorted maladies while playing "The Devil's Triangle". RF said, "Let me respond by simply saying this: B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B!" while fingering his lips. He also added that he had just flown in from Nashville that morning , where the full band was currently rehearsing and would be flying back the next day to continue. Another question concerned the possibility of a 30th anniversary retrospective concert. RF responded, "I really don't think that I'd like to play with five completely different bands at one time." They were each asked if they thought that 28 years later that they'd be sitting here talking about this music, and how they would characterize their reaction to this music at that time. Lake spoke eloquently about the spiritual quality and the power that he felt in the music and how the music was "not about that time, but OF that time". RF also revealed that some archival film/tape footage had recently become available and may be released when time permitted. He once again spoke about the time and effort that was involved in bringing this project to fruition. He credited and introduced Mr. Singleton, who was in attendance and he received another warm ovation. The playback began and RF bade those of us on line to come up if we wanted anything signed. but because of the fact I was third on line I didn't formulate all the questions that I wanted to ask, but I had one good query-- I had "That Which Passes"(amongst others) for hinm to sign and I asked about "Soundbites", which is still mentioned as an upcoming Soundscapes release. I asked him if "November Suite" replaced "Soundbites" and he said "Yes and no. Soundbites will probably appear in pieces on some future releases." The band signed for approximately two hours while the playback continued I didn't buy at that time since they were only selling the 2 disc set. Ian MacDonald asked the assembled to please order the additional 2 discs through DGM because even though the sound quality isn't top-notch, the performances contained were incredibly powerful. I just ordered the whole 4 disc package from DGM. Overall, I thought the sound quality was pretty good. All in all, I thought it was a wonderful day for "the Team". 8^) CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Monday-Thursday at 9PM and 1AM, EST. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #373 ********************************