Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #369 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 369 Tuesday, 8 April 1997 Today's Topics: re. 368: Epitaph; Islands; Porcupine Tree Re: VROOOM or THRAK Sleeve Notes & Flutes Islands Re: ELP's betrayal, etc. RE:I love Crimson and you've got to hear Porcupine Tree Plug for a UK radio show Gig review: John Wetton at the Star Club / Germany 5 April 1997 Listing "local chapters" of enthusiasts at ET Web memories Robert Fripp String Quartet on video prog rock fanzine Crimson-like band Porcupine Tree Re: I love Crimson and you've got to hear Porcupine Tree quote // turn on Soundbites - Los Gauchos leftist punks Rethrack-tion ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Clive Backham Subject: re. 368: Epitaph; Islands; Porcupine Tree Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:23:46 +0100 My copy of the 4CD version of Epitaph arrived a couple of days ago. I had got about 2 minutes into it when Kathy arrived home. After a few seconds she recognised that this was Crimso that she'd not heard before and said, "you can't have that yet, it's your birthday present!" and promptly *confiscated* it until May!!! (Anyone know a good divorce lawyer? :-) In ET #368, "Barrie Sillars" discussed the noise on Islands. My own experience is that every single version of this I've ever owned (standard UK Polydor LP, "EG Collectors Series" US Sterling cut half-speed mastered LP, UK definitive edition CD) has that "scrunching" noise on Formentera Lady and a high-pitched whistle during the closing trumpet (cornet?) solo on the title track. IIRC, the whistle has been toned down slightly on the CD, but it's a long time since I last listened to it. I can only presume that the master tape was damaged at an early stage. Perhaps the only way to hear Islands unmolested is to track down a pristine original LP (on the Island label - confusing isn't it?) Also in ET #368, "M Lehrer" waxed lyrical about Porcupine Tree. Much as I would encourage people to sample this band, let me say that you're not going to experience anything like the innovation or quality we get from Crimson. IMHO, Porcupine Tree are one of the best psych/proggish/ambient-at-times bands around at the moment. They are very good live, where the rhythm section shines. The drummer is particularly good, but seems to be rather under-used on their albums. BTW, There is a vague Fripp connection: PT's keyboard player is Richard Barbieri(sp?), who used to be in Japan with David Sylvian. Clive Backham Capita Managed Services Ltd. (+44) 1442 872121 clive at capita dot nildram dot co dot uk ------------------------------ From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:13:13 +0100 Subject: Re: VROOOM or THRAK I think the pieces common to Vrooom and Thrak are equally good, but in different ways (Sorry to appear so on-the-fence) - Vrooom for it's rawness and Thrak for its comparatively polished production. Personally, I prefer the Thrak versions - they seem more complete, the ideas developed further. I suggest though, that 80-90 percent of enthusiasts will prefer whichever one they heard first. I actually heard Thrak first (before *anything* else - and then went on to buy the majority of the back catalogue over a period of months). I find this is often the case with live recordings too. If you are familiar with the studio recording first, subsequent exposure to a live recording leaves you with the impression that the live version is 'missing' finishing touches and maybe even a bit sloppy. Conversely, if you are familiar with a live recording of a song / piece first then you often find the studio version somewhat dry and lifeless, lacking energy. It's another manifestation of that old human resistance to change / clinging on to familiarity thing. Anyone else find this? Well, it's certainly true for me - for first impressions at least. In the long run I usually end up appreciating both (or all) versions of a piece for their individual qualities. Maybe a poll would be interesting on this? To prove or otherwise if there's a correlation. Regards, Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 17:13:55 -0500 From: sid smith Subject: Sleeve Notes & Flutes Whilst on a brief stopover in Anorackland I had a thought. Why don't those nice people at DGM produce a series of collector's editions of sleeve notes to accompany the existing KC back catalogue at least from 69' - 74 initially. If kept to a CD booklet gatefold it could easily slip into the existing cases. However a more deluxe package could offer a slipover case for the entire CD ala the early editions of The First Day by Fripp and Sylvian. The Definitive Editions Collectors Sleeve Notes Series could consist of some or all of the following; 1. Extracts of Fripp's journal of the day providing some pointers as to how the music had come together. (Here I'm thinking of Fripp's comments regarding the Discipline rehearsals) 2. A list of the order in which recording took place - times, dates who did what, etc. (This could done in the style of Mark Lewisohn's superb "Complete Beatles Recordings" book albeit in a much truncated form) 3. Some indication as to which takes were finally used on the finished albums 4. An alternative track listing which may have been under consideration. (see The CD booklet which goes with Sgt Pepper's) 5. Some indication as to which takes were finally used on the finished albums 6. Any other interesting points of trivia, humour (i.e. Boz Burrell singing into a fire bucket) or any salient points about the recording process from others involved such as studio engineers and other band members. 7. Unpublished photo's from the period in question or renditions of any alternative cover art work. And so on. Of course some of this information exists and has already been published in the scrapbooks but I'm sure it could be added to and would benefit from being collected into one place. What do other Crimheads think ? I reckon there'd be a lot of enthusiasts out there who would happily purchase such a thing. Come on DGM, how about it ? re Michael Tanigawa's reference to the flutes on Exiles. I think it is played by Cross. I'm sure I remember reading that this was the case as do I remember Cross saying that they'd put in a quote from ITCOTCK via the mellotron parts. I'm also sure that I remember being told that Keith Tippet played the piano parts on that track though he is uncredited. True or false anyone ? Definitely one for the DE Collectors Sleeve Notes Series. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 17:13:59 -0500 From: sid smith Subject: Islands Nice to read the comments by crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) on Islands and the near infamous twice more, once with the oboe and once without it. It's strange isn't it how these little throwaway things can get under your skin. I bought a CD copy (non DE) and took it back to the shop because of the pops and crackles on it (especially Formentera Lady). Then didn't see it in the shop for at least five years. The one I currently have is DE and was purchased via DGM mail order. It comes complete with the oboe track though it does seem a little on the quiet side to me. Played on headphones though, it reveals all sorts of ambient studio noises such as creaks, shuffles and Keith Tippett humming along (at least that's what I figure it to be) on the title track. There are all sorts of odd moments on Islands; As a bunch of teenage Crimheads (see below for full description), we were convinced Ian Wallace drops a beat during the title track (somewhere around the six minute mark). We also reckoned that Charig was drunk when he recorded it (though on later listening I now realise that this was just youthful wishful thinking i.e. stereotypical jazzer). Why the odd stereo panning on the change over into The Sailor's Tale ? Just why did Fripp leave so many mistakes  on the album ? The clunk of the harmonium pedals at the end of the title track - audio verite or blown budget ? I completely agree with Mike Dickson and would vote this as being one of my all time fave raves. I love Islands and I have very romantic / nostalgic associations with the music which only add to the strong feelings I have for this piece. Years ago (1972) my cronies and I would endlessly recite the "Twice with the oboe and once without it" bits and do all the noises and tune ups etc, in their correct sequence. We did get some strange looks. You can imagine the scene: a busy Friday night in a bar in down town Newcastle On Tyne. The brown ale flowing, the skirts blowing and four or five teenage lads, pretending to be string sections, conductors and god forbid, metronomes (this is all true) We all used to take it in turns to do the Fripp bit though I always used to relish doing the beep beep beep bit. Controversy used to reign as to what exactly it was and who was doing it. Similar arguements broke out when we tried to figure out who said  3. Was it Peter Sinfield or was it Andy Hendrickson ? One conspiracy theory went that Sinfield was responsible for both the beep and the 3 over the studio intercom. And can anybody tell me what exactly it has a numbered postbox" ? We really were such sad bastards. And we wore duffle coats and desert boots. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 01:43:49 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: ELP's betrayal, etc. >From: James Hannigan > >it is true that in the early '70s, and >later as well, rock was seen by writers like Simon Frith and Lester Bangs >as revolutionary and anti-establishment, and that bands like ELP and Yes >and Crimson were pretentious and high-brow, betraying rock's roots. This is >all malarkey of course. "Of course," huh? I'd say your view is highly debatable. In an unrelated story, I finally bought the VROOM EP last week. So shoot me for my tardiness. ;) Anyway, I really enjoyed the rougher sound of it, and hope the new KC record has a bit more grit than THRAK. Eb PS To those two guys who were going to buy my Sacred Songs cassette and Saqqara Dogs CD, please email me again. I had a bit of a software crash, and lost your addresses. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 19:14:49 -0800 From: Josh Emery Organization: Emery Distributors Subject: RE:I love Crimson and you've got to hear Porcupine Tree > Lately, every new release from Crimson sends me into orbit. Porcupine Tree > does the same thing. Anyone else agree? Porcupine Tree gets a lot of attention on the Sylvian list. Multi-instrumentalist Steve Wilson is Porcupine Tree and is also in No-Man. Now, I love KC and don't care much at all for Porcupine Tree. Please, this is not a knock on PT, as Robert would say, this is a reflection of me not them. The only reason I'm posting this is to let other readers know that just because they like KC doesn't mean they will automaticaly like PT. I find them much closer to Pink Floyd (whom I've never liked either). It's not that I find anything wrong with PT, it just doesn't move me. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 01:14:48 +0100 (BST) From: BBC Radio Derby Soundscapes Subject: Plug for a UK radio show May I draw readers' attention to BBC Radio Derby's 'Soundscapes' show? I will, anyway. Anyone within earshot of the UK Midlands between 3 and 6 on Sundays must tune to 104.5MHz. For a flavour check out SoundScapes. As the intro says: "Soundscapes is a weekly aural voyage through musical landscapes on the mainstream perimeter, encompassing Electronica, Ambient, New Age, experimental, Classic rock, Contemporary Classical, Fusion and Film Music... from acoustic to electric, the pastoral to the pulsating." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 15:56:16 +0200 From: GW Subject: Gig review: John Wetton at the Star Club / Germany 5 April 1997 On Saturday, 5. April 1997 I catched John Wetton on his current tour in our small "Star Club" in Oberhausen / Germany: --- The set list --- 0) Synthie-Intro 1) In The Dead Of Night 2) Sole Survivor 3) Voice Of America 4) guitar solo 5) Battle Lines 6) Arkangel 7) The Smile Has Left Your Eyes 8) The Night Watch 9) 30 years 10) Hold Me Now 11) Only Time Will Tell 12) keyboard solo 13) Rendezvous 6:02 14) drum solo 15) Caught In The Crossfire 16) Easy Money 17) Starless 1. encore: 18) In The Heat Of The Moment 19) All Along The Watchtower 2. encore: 20) Don't Cry 3. encore (improvised): 21) Blues --- The band --- Guitar: A bald headed man called Liesegang (I'm shure I've heard this name before, but can't remember where or when. Does somebody know him ?). Good player, he has made a solo record which was sold at the merchandising. He made a long and very 'spacy' solo (4). Keyboards: A young player (I didn't understand his name). His solo (12) was a composition of his own, a mixture of pop harmonies and classical elements. A bit like Geoff Downs. Drums: A young player from Vienna, Austria with a Carl Palmer type of drumset. He really was the hardest working man on stage. J.W. said: "I've worked with _lots_ of drummers, but this one is the best !" Okay, that was meant as a compliment, but he was really good. He built a bridge from Asia/Palmer to KingCrimson/Bruford. Amazing. --- The audience --- Really enthusiastic (in comparison with the Star-Club-gig in November 1995). Lots of comparatively young people who knew all the lyrics, even of the KC and UK songs. J.W. even made some little duetts with the audience ... Okay, seems to be a bit foolish for us 30+ people, but I have to admit that I sang and shouted, too :-) I dare say that the band enjoyed that night. (J.W.: "It's good to be alive !"). They did two encores, but the crowd was so wild that they finally appeared on stage for a third encore. But the band had run out of it's repertoire ! So they improvised a standard blues-rock song. --- The songs --- The Intro (0) started before the musicians appeared on stage. As usual, J.W. played a few of the songs with his acoustic guitar: 6,7,8,9 and the beginning of 10. Beeing a King Crimson fan since the 70ies, three songs thrilled me in a special way: - The Night Watch They used the sampled intro from the Starless And Bible Black album and then played the song with keyboards and acoustic guitar. Really nice version, even in comparison with the versions on the "The Great Deceiver"-boxed set. It makes me dare to ask: What about "The Great Deceiver" ,"Lament", "Fallen Angel", "One More Red Nightmare " ?? ;-) - Starless The unexpected happened: They played a full-length version of Starless ! Okay, let's say a 80percent-version, because the jazzy Sax-part was of course missing. The first (vocal) part was closer to the original from "Red" than the version J.W. played on his 1995 tour: this time they used a fitting keyboard sound for the mellotron part, and Mr. Liesegang played the Fripp-lines. And the second (instrumental tension-and-release) part was a time-travel back to the 70ies ... You only had to close your eyes. Even the a-bit-too-loud and fuzzy bass sound of J.W. was quite the same as in 1973/74 ... - Easy Money Similar to 1995, but this time without the female background singer. The middle section had (like starless) some unexpected crimsonesque moments. The ASIA-Songs were, as usual, perfectly performed without too much surprises. They of course were the part of the show most people had made their way to Oberhausen for, and nobody was disappointed, I think. The same with the UK, Caught In The Crossfire and Battle Lines songs. Surprisingly they also played a Dylan Song: "All Along The Watch Tower". And there was this blues for the 3. encore ... the band had obviously not rehearsed any more songs, but the people were wild to get one more ... And instead of playing a song for the second time or let John play alone they improvised this blues. Ciao Gerd ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Listing "local chapters" of enthusiasts at ET Web In ET# 368 Elvis wrote: > ...I thought it might serve well to > collect a mailing list of local ET'ers to share info about close-by > happenings, and perhaps arrange after-show gatherings etc. I expect this > to be a very low traffic list...I'm doing nothing more than compiling > addresses and setting up a mailer... I think this is a very good idea. In support, if anyone wants to have a "local chapter" of KC/RF enthusiasts listed at ET Web (name, place, contact, etc...) I'll be happy to create a web page for that purpose. Just let me know. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 97 08:50:42 UT From: "GREGORY FORSTER" Subject: memories Hi fellow crimaniacs, This is my first posting to E.T.,so excuse my naivety in all things Crimson - especially compared to you "front-line" afficianadoes in the U.S.,U.K.,Europe & Japan. I'm a poor long-suffering Aussie,who as a result of my geograhical location,has never had the privilege of seeing the band (in any of its incarnations) live. I've had to rely on my complete legitimate collection and my 21 bootlegs from various periods (still sold "legally" here till july 1st,1995). My main purpose for writing is three-fold: Firstly,I'd like to share my introduction to Crimson. In January 1970,at the age of 14,I was on summer holidays with my parents in a seaside resort in the south-eastern corner of mainland Australia. It was my habit,when going to sleep,to put my small transistor radio under my pillow,and listening to Graham Berry's legendary "Album Show" on Melbourne radio station's 3XY. He was introducing all the local "hairies" to the progressive rock eminating from the U.S & U.K. On this particular evening I retired to my sleeping bag in our caravan's annex at about 9.15pm,I snuggled down,closed my eyes and switched my "tranny" on as usual. What I encountered changed my life forever. And I don't say that lightly. It really did! I had tuned in half way through the title track from "In The Court Of The Crimson King" (not that I knew what it was then),and I had heard nothing like it before in my life. It left an indelible mark on my psyche. I hounded my mother for donkey's ages after that to buy me the album for my birthday (the following March). She finally succumbed to my pressure. I remember the horror on the faces of both her and the middle-aged female assist in our little local record shop when the album finally came in - "oh,that disgusting cover!" I must confess that my enthusiasm for subsequent Crimson/Fripp releases hasn't waned one iota over the years. I still wait with undisguised impatience (and excitment) for each release. Now that I've bored you with that anecdote,the second thing is: Can anyone tell me if Peter Sinfield has collaborated significantly with any other writers since his Crimson days. I'm aware of his contribution to Gary Brooker's debut album,and a few "one-off" songs,but beyond this I'm lost. Lastly (you'll be glad to know),I'd like to add my thanks,along with the many others that have already done so,to Mark Perry at Possible. I was fortunate to have a number of wonderful conversations with him other a relatively short period (12 months or so),and thank him for his help,courtesy & affable nature. Thanks Mark! Greg Forster at FIGLEEVE at MSN dot COM dot AU ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:23:06 +0100 From: grc at cybersurf dot co dot uk (Graham Crawford) Subject: Robert Fripp String Quartet on video Attached (edited) mailshot received last week from Picture Palace. Their E-mail address and URL are within. This may sound a bit impatient, but please, please, - If you can't find the qvideo mentioned on their lists, or it doesn't show up from using search engines at their site (on the tailored databases), TAKE IT UP WITH THEM! Please don't mail me to tell me you couldn't find it, or they don't have it listed, etc etc. Don't blame the messenger, or expect him to expand on the message........... Thanx! Regards, Graham *----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: The Picture Palace Subject: This Week's Promos - free CD! April 1st (No Joke!) - Music Video News from PicPal, the Picture Palace at http://picpal.com/ - please ask directly for details on any of the following title announcements... ******************************************** LASER UPDATE: US Laser, just after signing up as our laser disc distributor, suddenly went out of business and laid off every single employee this past Good Friday without so much as a how-do-you-do. Now we are back to square one, so please note that the list below is from our music source, which will also now handle our lasers... ******************************************** TITLE SEARCH: Some of this list is repetitive from our last notice, so if you are searching for one thing in particular we suggest you use the Edit/Find or Search/Find capability in whatever viewing software you're using. The L in the beginning of any item code denotes a laser disc; ROM denotes a CD-ROM; DM a DVD; anything else a video of some category or other... ******************************************** Now a chance to get the CD soundtrack to Phat Beach: You have until midnight Eastern (NJ) Time on Sunday the 6th to be the first person to email me this little message between the lines of asterisks here. Please send it to picpal at ids dot net from the address you used to subscribe to our list, only. Other means will be disqualified. Thank you for your understanding. ******************************************** If you do you will get the appropriate item mailed to the address of your choice. Remember, if you win something you will be ineligible for another until the sixth week after the one in which you won (but if you're not sure, try anyway). Good luck, but remember we cannot be held responsible for acts of the industrial gods that slow your email delivery just when you want to win something (always happens to me...)! - Jennifer Kramer, PicPal ******************************************** NEW RELEASES ANNOUNCEMENTS (WITHIN THE PAST 30 DAYS): [In order: Title $Price Release(d) Item#] THE ROBERT FRIPP STRING QUINTET Live In Japan 19.95 02/04/1997 R-3721 ******************************** PicPal not responsible for misprints or misquotations. Prices and availability subject to change without notice. ******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 97 15:49:04 BST From: Scott Hamrick Subject: prog rock fanzine Dear Crimheads, I invite you all to visit my new web site called Reels of Dreams Unrolled (guess where I got the name.) This site is an on-line progressive rock fanzine featuring news, album reviews and a bit of humor focusing on famous and obscure progressive rock bands of all kinds, including the granddaddy of them all, The Mighty K.C. Thanks for your patience during this shameless act of self-promotion, Scott Hamrick http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/8827/index.html ------------------------------ From: oracular at webtv dot net (David Denis) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:53:23 -0400 Subject: Crimson-like band A Crimson-like band will play the EL-N-GEE club in NewLondon C.T. On April26th. The name of the band is Catfood and also has the two members of Oracular in it. http://www.moonsite.com/oracular/ ------------------------------ From: Bradley Stewart Cook Subject: Porcupine Tree Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:57:07 -0500 (CDT) >Through a fluke, I discovered an English band that is receiving no >attention in the USA, but is rather outrageous, called Porcupine Tree. >They're on Delerium records, UK (Delerium has a website or you can search >by Porcupine Tree). Actually Porcupine Tree was the subject of several short discussions here about a year or more ago. (close to the time The Sky MOves Sideways came out, whenever that was) I'm fairly sure this is accurate..does anyone else remember the hoopla? I don't care much for Porcupine Tree personally. A little too retro for me. Quite odd...I can listen to modern bluegrass or jazz that sounds very similar to the early stuff and not care, but when I expect something to be prog or experimental I can't put up with retro. I want progress. Like Crimson. Call me an oxymoron...just don't call me a moron. DigME, Brad ps: For those dissenters..I DO agree that Crimson still retains aspects from their earlier days...but they do indeed progress. No dinosaurs here. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:10:16 +0100 From: rolit at mbox dot vol dot it (Rolando Michelazzi) Subject: Re: I love Crimson and you've got to hear Porcupine Tree ON Thu, 3 Apr 1997, "M Lehrer" wrote: >Lately, every new release from Crimson sends me into orbit. Porcupine Tree >does the same thing. Anyone else agree? I completely agree with you, Merrill. IMO, PT is the best "progressive" band born in the 90's. There is a pair of links between PT and KC: The leader of PT, Steven Wilson is also the 50 percent of NO-MAN; their best (IMO) album is 'Flowermouth', which features Robert Fripp and Mel Collins as guest musicians. Another PT member is Richard Barbieri, ex Japan, so... Fripp ---> Sylvian ---> Barbieri ---> PT Bye. Rolando. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 20:12:01 -0400 (EDT) From: dumela at nicom dot com (tj) Subject: quote // turn on In the 3-4/97 issue of _Option_ the following parenthetical quote appears in a review of the latest from Kerosene 454 _Came by to Kill Me_ : "...(is King Crimson turning out to be more of an influence on young rockers than we initially realized?)..." And I say, "hot damn." // How many of us ETers have some sort of net link to persons who could handle a turn on to KC? I recently suggested, nearly demanded, that a student in Taiwan who is taught by a friend of mine to seek out some KC. And now he has, and to quote again: Subject: FW: About The Concise King Crimson From: s841432 "After listening to "sleepless" from King Crison... I think that I will take a "short film" with it, and I'll take it as my homework...!! I like their music very much!" So go ahead turn someone on today, perhaps they'll be influenced too. tj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 97 11:48:19 +0100 From: Stephane Alexandre Subject: Soundbites - Los Gauchos Hi Elephant Talkers, To complete Steve Smith post "Soundbites" has been cancelled and replaced by "November Suite - Live at Green Park Station". It will be available by mail order only from DGM. The date of release shall be around the second half of April (There was a delay due to the artwork according to DGM in UK).=20 November Suite is based on tree hours of soundscapes recorded in a=20 converted railway station in Bath. The whole concerts have been condensed on one CD. November suite is N=B0 9701 in the DGM catalog (Note that this number was previously attributed to the 2CD release of "1999". This release has been postponed later in the futur). November Suite might be ordered to DGM in UK for =A312 with a collector box to contain the 1995 soundscapes CD series. On a different subject, in the new DGM catalog the new Los Gauchos Alemanes CD disappeared. Does any one know what happens to this release ? (please e-mail me privately). To finish with DGM. The two last Adrian Belew recording are now available in Europe through DGM. "Op Zop Too Wah" as DGM 9609 and "The Guitar as Orchestra" as DGM 9611, =A312 each. DGM UK has a new e-mail address : DGM at disciplinegm dot demon dot co dot uk Stephane. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 97 14:53:58 BST From: Scott Hamrick Subject: leftist punks While I haven't read (or even seen) the book on progressive rock by Macan, I must disagree with one of Julius Saroka's "points of contention" (ET 367) with the book. Saroka says: "(other key points of contention are. . . his tying in the anti-prog attitude of some critics with an alleged "leftist agenda".)" The crusade against prog rock in the '70s was indeed led partly by people with a leftist agenda. Among the ignorant leaders of this witch hunt were the punk bands of the late '70s. These bands were reacting against what they percieved as a dead-end future due to England's economic troubles, and at the same time, the popularity of progressive rock bands such as Pink Floyd, Genesis and ELP. It is said that one famous punk (one of the guys from the Sex Pistols, I think) even was known to wear an "I hate Pink Floyd" T-shirt. In an article on the band UK in the September 21, 1978 issue of Rolling Stone, Bill Bruford himself says: "The way rock is being defined in England right now, I'm certainly not a rock drummer and never have been. Rock there is about protest, unemployment, the welfare state. I'm a nice middle-class boy, and I'm not a rock drummer if you define it like that." Scott Hamrick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:58:45 -0400 From: Joe Basile Subject: Rethrack-tion Greetings; A few months ago I posted my opinion claiming that LTIA PT1 was the best off the new video.Last Saturday after my boy's Communion,I couldn't sleep(less). SO, I put on a defenative edition of this ,full tilt,at 3:00AM. Now, I'm not saying the older group did it better, they didn't do it worse. I guess it is like childen...you love em all the same for different qualities. Maybe this is why there is still a high intrest in all clicks of KC, from 1969 to 1999. Well ,I enjoy 99.95% of recent postings. Especially the ones on the recent listening of the new release in the UK...wish I was there. Toby thanks again, oh how do I get my name and posting numbers in the contibutors listings ? Warmly, Joe Industry, PA Joseph S. Basile ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #369 ********************************