Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #368 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 368 Friday, 4 April 1997 Today's Topics: Not so odd places in Denver Anagram (oh no!) help The Filmore West Shows Report self-correction "Debut at Hyde Park" bootleg Islands adrift The American office of Discipline re: KC in odd places DGM in North America yet? VROOOM or THRAK Epitaph release date in USA I love Crimson and you've got to hear Porcupine Tree DGM US Islands Queries in ET367 DGM/Possible Productions US update Hunters Fripp imitation on the list Epitah 2or4 ??? 1999 Macan book on prog Guitarist On PG Tour fripp w/G-3 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:49:57 -0500 (EST) From: Elvis LIVES! Subject: Not so odd places in Denver Ken's post about 'KC in odd places' has given me an excuse to do something i've had in mind for a while... First, being an avid hockey 'enthusiast' as well, I find myself at the occasional Avalanche game where I discovered 'Elephant Talk' plays regularly during intermissions (I suspect an ET'er in the rafters!) Well, that may not be particularly odd, but it leads to my subject. I've noticed many posts by denver-area ET'ers, most recently regarding the wonderful CGT/Gunn/Janson show I caught. Some time before that I recall a post by someone that had missed a CGT show held in denver several months earlier, which I also missed, if it existed (?). Denver/Colo Spr/etc seem to host many Crimso-family events so I thought it might serve well to collect a mailing list of local ET'ers to share info about close-by happenings, and perhaps arrange after-show gatherings etc. I expect this to be a very low traffic list...I'm doing nothing more than compiling addresses and setting up a mailer. I only discovered the last CGT show through an easily missed flyer in a CD shop... I tremble at the thought. We might also save a smattering of et bandwidth. Email me (obv) if interested. elvis at pebkac dot trippy dot org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 21:01:17 -0400 (EDT) From: JPRICE at TrentU dot ca Subject: Anagram (oh no!) help Hello ETypes, At the risk of re-opening a "forbidden" subject, I'd like to present to the readership; Adrian's answer to one of my (and at least one other's) questions. "What is the first line in the chorus of Thela Hun Ginjeet?" His answer: " 1) The line is "Qua tari mei". According to a revered African legend, if you chant this phrase over and over while several nasty- looking Rastas are preparing to skewer you, the Rastas will be moved to return your sacred Sony tape recorder to you unharmed." This is obviously another anagram (thela hun ginjeet = heat in the jungle). From the last few issues, I gather that someone's got one of those anagram generators. Perhaps said person(s) could run this line through the software and reply to me (to spare the list another bout of anagramitis) with the results. I'll add the best/most likely to the FAQ. (OK, Terry? Toby?) Looking foreward... (I think) J. P. Hovercraft aka jprice at trentu dot ca http://ivory.trentu.ca/~jprice "aLSO THRaK ZaRaTHUSTRa" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 12:01:55 +0200 From: Alex Brugger Organization: Department of Physics, University of Erlangen, Germany Subject: The Filmore West Shows Hi everyone! being one of the proud owners of the Epitaph box set I couldn't help noticing a small inconsistency in the booklet concerning dates. according to the CD sleeve and David Singleton's liner notes the very last show of the 69 line-up was on December 15 1969. a few pages later Robert Fripp says it was on Dec. 16. the original poster as printed in the back of the booklet announces the Filmore West shows as Dec. 11, 12, 13 and 14. noticing this made me curious enough to check out some other sources too - and I found the following: the gig list in the Young Person's Guide booklet mentions only 3 gigs at the Filmore West, at Dec. 14, 15 and 16. the booklet of the Frame By Frame live CD credits "Mars" as being recorded at San Francisco, Filmore West, on December 10 1969. hence my question - when _were_ these Filmore West shows, and when was the last one???? thanks! Alex Brugger ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____________________ Alex Brugger ____________________ alex dot brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de http://www.physik.uni-erlangen.de/hi/ab/ab1.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 09:37:15 +0100 Subject: Report self-correction Re: my mention in ET #367 of the 4 guitarists featured in April's Future Music magazine - the 4th was Steve Hillage, not Steve Howe. Oops Matt Nolan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 13:57:31 -0500 From: ssmith at knittingfactory dot com (Steve Smith) Subject: "Debut at Hyde Park" bootleg Hey all - With all the talk of "Epitaph" in the air, and especially as one of the two bonus discs in that set contains the much-bootlegged Plumpton Festival performance, I wanted to issue a warning about the new Japanese bootleg "Debut at Hyde Park." This disc, which features a blue cover that uses the front cover art from "Court of the Crimson King," purports to be a portion of the set King Crimson played at the famous free festival opening for the Rolling Stones before an estimated 650 thousand people. It says as much on the package. HOWEVER, tipped by an attendee of the "Epitaph" listening party, I did a very close A-B comparison which revealed that this is, in fact, a portion of the Plumpton Festival show. It's got better sound quality than the other Plumpton Festival disc I've heard, but I'm sure that the material on "Epitaph" is likely better still. I'm sure this is common knowledge to the most serious collectors, but I wanted to warn anyone who might come across the disc, since there's evidently so little genuine 1969 live material in circulation. Best, Steve Smith ssmith at knittingfactory dot com ------------------------------ From: Alex Moseley Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:08:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: Islands adrift Mark Stevens wrote in ET 367: >I fool heartedly replaced all my older CDs with the Definitive Editions >(sold off the old ones) before realizing that the US DE version of >Island >does not include the tag at the end "Let's do it twice more, once with >the >oboe, and once without it ..." I always enjoyed this aspect of the >album. Curiously, my version of Islands does have the extra tag as described (I later found it after discovering the GD one last time), and my version of Islands IS a definitive edition and IS from the US. Islands has been unavailable in the UK from record stores for a while now (other than Discipline GM themselves) which is why I asked a friend in the US to get me a copy a few weeks back. So... as far as I know the Definitive Edition as currently available in the US does contain the 'secret' bits at the end. Irrelevant or interesting? You decide... Alex. *------------------------------ Alex Moseley, Computer Officer (Arts & Law), University of Leicester. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 13:37:06 -0500 From: ssmith at knittingfactory dot com (Steve Smith) Subject: The American office of Discipline Hello ETers: Out of sheer curiosity, having checked out the latest ET on the website yesterday, I phoned the US office of Discipline Global Mobile yesterday because several people have wondered aloud when "Epitaph" and "Soundbites" might be released in the U.S. Firstly, the number I jotted down from the original DGM post regarding the U.S. office was incorrect - I may have just written it down wrong. For the record, here is the the 100% accurate information: Discipline Global Mobile P.O. Box 5282 Beverly Hills, CA 90209-5282 Phone (information): (213) 937-9058 Phone (orders): (213) 937-3194 I didn't catch the name of the very nice woman who answered the phone and fielded my questions, but she said that they would begin taking pre-orders for "Epitaph" on Tuesday, April 8. The discs will ship sometime thereafter, probably a week or so later. The "Soundbites" release has been renamed, and now I wish I'd written it down... it is now called "November Tones" or something to that effect, definitely two words with "November" in the title. That, too, can be pre-ordered on the 8th. No word on ordering "That Which Passes" or any other forthcoming Soundscapes releases. They indicated that they would be up on the web sometime soon, and that Mark Perry is helping them tremendously (as we all knew he would; he was great). Anyone who was previously on the Possible Productions mailing list is now on the DGM-US mailing list automatically. They're still in the process of getting settled but are very much looking forward to beginning to serve the US Crimhead contingent and asked me to let everyone know. Best, Steve Smith ssmith at knittingfactory dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Apr 97 16:58:05 UT From: "Pete Gilbert" Subject: re: KC in odd places ok...here is my KC in the strip club story... my friend "tommie" dances at a local club. I had given her Thrak to get her in the mood for an upcoming Krimson show. I met her at the club one night, and she danced to VROOOM for me, which made my evening. I had figured that she would pick something like People, or SSEDD, but VROOOM actually worked quite well. anyway, I thought that you might appreciate the mental image... Pete > Since this list tends to approach pretentiousness occasionally, I thought > I lightened the mood a bit. Anyone have any stories about KC music in odd > places? I have one that a few people may find humorous. > My apologies to the lady readers for the following: > About 6-8 months ago I went on a golf outing, after it was over a crew of > us decided to go to a local "Gentleman's Club." The featured performer was > Ginger Lynn(soem might remember her), when she strutted out on stage, I > heard a familar song. It took me a few seconds to realize that it was > "VROOOM" I never thought the KC would be music to "dance" to, in my > amazement at hearing this song I almost dropped my beer and almost didn't > pay attention to the show. However, no one else at the show was interested > in knowing the name of the song, no matter how much I wanted to tell them. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 13:02:36 -0500 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: DGM in North America yet? Hi All In my local Tower yesterday, I noticed that they're now selling "Sometimes God Hides" as a regular release(although at only $4.99, still a steal!). They also had "That Which Passes". I got an itching for the '69 band live box and I'm wondering if there's a DGM open stateside yet. Anyone know? How about a website? Cheers, CV P.S. If anyone else steals my Bennett sig, I'm gonna have to change it to something like this: " " -- Robert Fripp to audient/fan/enthusiast, 1996 If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. --J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Monday-Thursday at 9PM and 1AM, EST. --Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:23:41 -0500 From: alan s cohen Subject: VROOOM or THRAK >attention was something that bothered me when I first heard THRAK. Does >anyone else out there in ET-land feel that the versions of VROOM, >SexSleep.., and One Time sound weaker than their counterparts on the VROOM >EP? Especially VROOM, itself. I think that the first version has so much Funny you should write this. I definitely enjoy the first VROOOM better than the THRAK version. The raw feeling, the (to my ears) better drumming part? And of course the 2 THRAKs are entirely different in feel. Anyway, last week I was thinking that it's coming up on the time for a full band rehearsal. So I was going to suggest that perhaps another mini album of reheasals be considered by the boys. I think that there is definitely something to be said for Crimson in the raw. Trivia fact of the week. I saw Crash last week and stuck around for the closing credits coz the music was so good. Whose name should I see but Mary Lou Green. Sound familiar? Check the credits to Exposure and Under Heavy Manners/ God Save The Queen. She's listed as the hair stylist, and I believe that her and Fripp were an item for a time. (People mag once did a story on her which said as much, and that they liked to play pin ball together!) Alan *------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i000371 sends (alan cohen)... ------------------------------ From: "M Lehrer" Subject: Epitaph release date in USA Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:17:53 -0500 Hi Toby. First of all, thanks for a sensational job--and your staff--on the ET site. It is always first rate. [ Thank you! -- Toby ] In case you haven't printed the following release info about Epitaph in the USA, here's what I learned by contacting DGM USA or Possible Productions or whatever they're calling themselves in the USA these days: I was told that Epitaph is releasing late April in the USA, and that all pre-orders are not possible until after April 9th. Don't waste your breath prior to that date. Phone # is 213-937-3194 or 213-937-9058. Thanks to Robert C for his amazing review of the pre-release party. In case any of you haven't read it, scroll back a few issues. Outstanding writing. There's a career opportunity for him in publishing, I'm sure. Merrill ------------------------------ From: "M Lehrer" Subject: I love Crimson and you've got to hear Porcupine Tree Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 15:34:18 -0500 Hi all. First of all, I'm totally out of my mind crazy for Crimson. Own all and have seen them a million times. This should qualify the following opinion as sane: Through a fluke, I discovered an English band that is receiving no attention in the USA, but is rather outrageous, called Porcupine Tree. They're on Delerium records, UK (Delerium has a website or you can search by Porcupine Tree). Fabulous musicianship, spacious soundscapes (sorry for the comparison), and reminds me of Pink Floyd during Ummagumma days, Ozric Tentacles (another hard to find space band), Genesis, and a smidgen of King Crimson. I have always regarded King Crimson as highly intellectual, brilliantly conceived music. Porcupine Tree is equally inspiring. Not the same as Crimson, but pretty amazing stuff. Only two PT discs are available in the USA: "The Sky Moves Sideways"--a great description of the sound, and my favorite disc; and "Signify" their latest. But there are other UK only releases. Lately, every new release from Crimson sends me into orbit. Porcupine Tree does the same thing. Anyone else agree? Merrill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 15:51:11 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin Subject: DGM US Hi. I've been trying to contact DGM US in vain: the phone # listed in ET#362 has been disconnected and plays a phone company recording that states that the number was no longer in service. Does anyone have any idea what's happening? From whom are we supposed to buy Epitaph? Thanks, Jonathan Brainin jbrainin at interactive dot net ------------------------------ From: "Barrie Sillars" Subject: Islands Queries in ET367 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:35:34 +0100 A couple of queries concerning the CD version of Island appeared in ET367. qFirstly, Mike Dickson commented on the "noise" at the beginning of the CD on Formentera Lady (I think it is this you are referring to Mike and not the title track). I also checked my Polydor vinyl version which I think (through all the cracks and hiss) does contain the same "noise" although it is very hard to tell. My first impressions when I heard this was that the track (or at least the beginning of the track) was taken from a vinyl as opposed to tape source (possibly the master tapes could not be found). But I am sure there is another explanation. I know the topic of the Definitive Editions CDs' has been discussed before. Which leads me to the second point concerning the "lost" section of the title track as mentioned by Mark Stevens and others before him. I recently bought the Definitive Version of this from Tower in London. It is a US import with bar code number 1704-61505-2 on the back. This DOES contain the end section mentioned after a break of a couple of minutes at the end of Islands. Consequently, the CD timing of this is 11.54 and not 9.16 as stated on the sleeve. Additionally, Formentera Lady is timed at 10.15 with Sailor's Tale 7.35 and not 5.20 and 12.29 respectively, as also stated on the back of the CD. All very interesting stuff, I am sure you will agree! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 14:06:12 -0800 (PST) From: Tomas Uribe Subject: DGM/Possible Productions US update *---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello. I received this update from DMG/UK concerning mail-order distribution in the US. I haven't seen it on the ET newsletter, so you may want to include it in the next edition. For prospective US customers: I ordered and received "That Which Passes" from them. (For some reason, the price will go down to $13.00 from the current $15.00, so to order that one you may want to wait for the reduced price.) The full 4-CD epitaph will be $35.00, and will be available April 29, as well as a new, mail-order-only Soundscapes CD. Message from DGM/Fripp below. - Tomas ============================================================================ Possible Productions/ Discipline Global Mobile P.O. Box 5282 Beverly Hills CA 90209-5282 USA Fax: 1 213 937-9102 Order Line: 1 213 937 3194 Email: PossProd at aol dot com 23 March 1997 Dear Team, Update on Possible Productions/Discipline Global Mobile contact points in the US Please send mail orders for Discipline goodies, and all other communications, to the address / numbers above. Only use PossProd at aol dot com for your electronic mailing and orders - we are currently unable to access any messages sent to DGMUS and DGMUSA aol.com Email addresses. If you have recently sent any orders or communications to a DGMUS or DGMUSA e-address and received no response from Discipline, please re-send your message to PossProd at aol dot com and we shall be happy to respond. We have restructured the American operation of DGM. The American mail order service continues under the flag of Possible Productions, while Discipline Global Mobile (as record company responsible for the release of recorded music) is directed, administered and organised from World Central in Wiltshire, England. I apologise if any inconvenience has been caused members of the American team (in their role as patrons of DGM and its artists). It was necessary to create a suitable, sympathetic and appropriate record company for most of the DGM releases to have been possible. The company operates in such a way that it is unlikely to stay in business purely as a record company. The success of the mail order services determines whether DGM is able to continue in business, pay its debts, and release future records (particularly archive releases, which are expensive to prepare - "Epitaph" took four months and was funded by DGM). So, the future of Discipline Global Mobile depends upon the success of its mail order services. The success of its mail order services depends upon the loyalty of its patrons. No doubt, more soon. Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 17:25:18 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: Hunters awhile back I had a minor stroke or something and couldn't remember Steve Hunter's name, when I was posting about early Peter Gabriel tours. For some funny reason, in the latest ET, two different people called *Steve Hunter* , a guitarist on PG's first album and tour, *Dick Hunter*, perhaps confusing him with Dick Wagner, who played with Hunter on Lou Reed' Rock and Roll Anbimal'. Whew. Hope I got this right. ------------------------------ From: "Mark Fenkner" Subject: Fripp imitation on the list Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 06:52:37 -0500 Have you noticed how many people are now imitating Fripp's writing style since he posted to the list? People are addressing the newsletter like he did, formatting their text like he did, using the tone of speech that he did, etc. It is quite entertaining ;) Sincerely, Mark Fenkner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:18:11 -0500 (EST) From: Pierron2 at aol dot com Subject: Epitah Can anyone out there tell me how to get the "Epitah" discs? Noone in this area seems to know anything about it....please e-mail me at pierron2 at aol dot com. Thanks! Mike Pierron ------------------------------ From: "Ben and Donna Raskin" Subject: 2or4 ??? Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:07:58 -0600 Help! I just got my copy of Epitaph from CD Now and was surprised to find it containing just volume 1&2. All of the reviews from the release event speak of four volumes. Are 3&4 being released as a separate set?? It is a beautiful set and although I haven't yet read the accompanying booklet, it appears to be quite a document. Interesting that there's two books- one in Japanese and one in English. If anyone can help to enlighten me on the other two discs please let me know!!! Thanx, Ben Raskin aoxomoa at ix dot netcom dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 21:56:49 -0500 From: Marilyn Swerdlow Subject: 1999 Having finally obtained 1999, I must say, Robert, you are a genius. It is cosmic. Headphones are mandatory. It is a journey into the void. An amazing and very pleasant journey. I'm still smiling. Thank you/m ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 22:03:06 -0500 (EST) From: James Hannigan Subject: Macan book on prog > > 2. his over-emphasis on the importance of psychedelic drugs (he bangs on > this particular drum continuously throughout the book). i don't have a > problem with drug use, or with anyone else using them (or _not_ using them, > for that matter.) either, but i know for a personal fact that several of > the musicians he mentions as crucial to the development of 'prog' did not > use, yet he makes generalizations that would make it seem that these drugs > were a prerequisite to both performer and listener. (to me it seems to be I don't believe Macan was referring to the players' drug use as much as the audience, in reference to the "subculture" and so forth; surely many members of the audience were, for lack of a better phrase, on another plane of consciousness. Maybe he should have been more specific. I enjoyed the book, was convinced by his basic analyses, and find it hard to accept much criticism of it as anything but nit-picking. the chapter on rock critics and prog is very good; it is true that in the early '70s, and later as well, rock was seen by writers like Simon Frith and Lester Bangs as revolutionary and anti-establishment, and that bands like ELP and Yes and Crimson were pretentious and high-brow, betraying rock's roots. This is all malarkey of course. I would think a fan of prog would appreciate the points Macan makes. - Jim Hannigan ------------------------------ From: leslabb at ptd dot net Date: Thu, 03 Apr 97 19:22:52 -0500 Subject: Guitarist On PG Tour << Anyhow, there was second guitarist on each tour; on the first tour it was the fellow who played lead on Lou Reeds 'Rock and Roll Animal' tour, and who plays on PG's first album -- a moderately well-known name, WHICH I CAN'T REMEMBER RIGHT NOW DAMMIT (and it's going to bug me for the rest of the day until I can get home to chekc it) >> >> Dick Hunter? >>Arnie Schulberg If I am not mistaken the man's name is Steve Hunter. Another great guitarist with the initials SH. Les Labbauf leslabb at ptd dot net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Apr 1997 22:10:33 -1000 From: jack Subject: fripp w/G-3 Check out the Satriani page at Satriani.com and look under comments. He says Fripp will be on G-3 '97 from June through August. Aloha, Jack. ....a very interesting site. [ For the record, this is what Jack is referring to, from http://www.satriani.com/satch_frames/tour_src.html > Date: Mon Mar 24 20:44 > joe satriani (www.satriani.com): > > wow!a fresh page!...anyway it's official g3'97 june 18th through august 3rd > featuring steve vai,kenny wayne shepard and robert fripp!!!...oh yeah,and > me...and stu and jeff too! and,i'm reminded to ask all of stu's fans to > figure out a new chant for him.you see,when everyone chants > "stuuuuuuuuuuu...", it sounds like booing to my mom and she feels sorry for > stu!she is not the only one who has been fooled by the chant,which by the > way,we love! anyway,we mix the g3'96 video this weekend > and will release both the live cd and video on june 1st!!! see ya -- Toby ] ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #368 ********************************