Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #364 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 364 Friday, 21 March 1997 Today's Topics: Thanks for hitting us over 75,000 times! Just thought you would enjoy this EPITAPH_intercontinental-15-03-97 Book on progrock Strings/picks Re: Fripp live w/ Peter Gabriel '78 or '79 Epitaph Playback Re: Book on progrock live shows for trade? a heretic & a nonheretic Tribute questionable, couple o' anagrams TGD insert and Starless Joe Fripp or Robert Pesci? DGM-US: Questions that need answers (& more) Guitar Craft Level 1 announcement--Chile Epitaph What about the beasts? Epitaph Playback WOW! KC on the radio! Epitaph Playback ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 11:58:06 -0600 From: "Daniel A. Kirkdorffer" Organization: Zeal Incorporated Subject: Thanks for hitting us over 75,000 times! Just wanted to thank everyone who has stopped by ET Web in the past year. The combined counters at the UK and USA mirror site have recorded over 75,000 hits since we started counting March 11th, 1996. That's pretty respectable traffic. Hopefully we can continue to give you reasons to visit ET Web in the year to come. Cheers! Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:11:15 -0500 From: bruce higgins Subject: Just thought you would enjoy this A paragraph from a *very* interesting New Yorker (1/27/97) article about the earth being regularly bombarded by cosmic rocks of varying sizes: "Here we are, close to the edge, protected from the immensity of the universe by a thin blue line. A day will surely come when the sheltering sky is torn apart with a power that beggars the imagination. It has happened before. Ask any dinosaur, if you can find one. This is a dangerous place." I trust you all can see why this caught my eye ;-) B___ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> L. Bruce Higgins LBH2 at cornell dot edu "Do you wonder sometimes, about sound and vision..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 14:12:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Markus Schneemann Subject: EPITAPH_intercontinental-15-03-97 Hi ET(h)ereals, It's been quite an experience to see the 1969-Krimsons and surviving enthusiasts ! A bit like a visit to the Natural History Museum... My impression was first of all climbing up the stairs to the grand ballroom that we finally arrived to a court of a King - but in the 20th century cleaned-up style of a ****(*)hotel Then the 35+ old fans - mostly quiet, shy, friendly people bringing a cake - no drinks, no smoking, no drugs, of course (we want to celebrate in 30 years time again - maybe I'll go for an autograph then) The music (LIVE KC 1969) showed Krimson as a McDonald-dominated band, quite bluesy - drop in , get thy bearings... All in all a successful event - should be repeated, with the Earthbound-lineup next time - bringing up other happy memories. NB The Independent Tabloid 19-03-97 has an article on the event, well written by Jonathan Glancey. Cheers Markus Schneemann Oxford UK schneema at icrf dot icnet dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 11:38:34 EST From: Clay Gaunce Subject: Book on progrock The book Gideon B. Banner referred to in the last ET Digest, _Rocking the Classics_ by Edward Macan, should be required reading for anyone who con- siders him/herself a prog rock fan (IMHO). Subtitled "English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture", it was obviously done as a labor of love by Macan, who is described on the book's jacket as being "a music educator, composer, mallet percussionist, and pianist." His book not only includes more than 50 references to King Crimson but brings clarity to the circum- stances surrounding RF's decision to disband KC in 1974 (pp. 206-211) in chapter 9: Progressive Rock After 1976. ...Fellow Canterbury fans take note: Macan also discusses Caravan, Soft Machine, Robert Wyatt, et.al., at considerable length and, more significantly, with admirable breadth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:05:36 -0500 From: Murray Kopelberg Subject: Strings/picks >From the last ET: >Hopefully someone will be able to help me...my supply of Guitar Craft >strings and picks is dangerously low and i need to stock up..anyone know >where i can get some more? I seem to have lost the address....I'm down to >my last set of strings!:( your help is most appreciated, Rich You can contact me for the above -- strings can be ordered from various sources, and I can give you the latest information about picks. Murray _____________________________ Murray Kopelberg Guitar Craft Registrar -- North America mkopelbe at students dot wisc dot edu _____________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:40:33 +0100 (MET) From: Lars Carlestam Subject: Re: Fripp live w/ Peter Gabriel '78 or '79 Jay Nittoli wrote: > Can someone please confirm this for me. I am aware that RF played in > the wings on the first two PG tours. I saw PG @ The Palladium in NYC in > '78 or '79 (the second tour). I recall during one of the encores PG's > band played The Kinks - All Day And All Of The Night, and RF came out > front center stage, dropped to his knees and burned down the house. > > Was anyone else there to confirm this? I can definitely confirm that they played 'All day and all of the night', but wether Mr Fripp got down to his knees or not... sorry. But it sure had been fun to see it if it ever was... trust your memory! I would... ;) There is a boot from this tour, think it's called 'Submerge', fairly good sound quality and excellent performance. Recorded at The Roxy in LA and Bottom Line in NY 1977/78. Recommended. Lasse ------------------------------ From: "Brian Thomson, London UK" Subject: Epitaph Playback Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 19:09:46 PST Just a couple of comments: Firstly, can someone explain why the venue information was never printed in ET? Was this an invitation-only event, one for the "in-crowd", or was it in the one issue that I missed in the last three months? I know it wasn't printed recently, since I made several special trips to my local Internet cafe here in Reading where I'm working, including last Friday evening. Just a crying shame, since I live in London, and would have loved to attend. No details were printed in "Time Out" or the Saturday newspapers I could have a look in. [ If I can clarify: In Robert's post in ET #334, he said: > If anyone wishes to attend, please contact the DGM office at the postal > address, by fax, or by e-mail, by 14 February. It wasn't an event open to the public on the day, only to people pre-registered with DGM. -- Toby ] Secondly, today's (19/03's) Independent newspaper has a report on the event, with a few pictures, and comments from Lake, Fripp, etc. Not a very good report, but typical, in that the journalist is surprised that Krimson are still a going concern, and impressed at the quality of the music and lyrics. One of the pictures is an '69 one of the gang sittting in a field somewhere (or Hyde Park?), unaware of a blonde girl examining them from behind. Anyway, I'm just annoyed that the venue was never made clear, and hope that some allowances can be made for those of us not joined to the Net on a permanent basis.... Brian Thomson, London UK bnt at ibm dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 11:34:40 -0800 From: Ben Miller Subject: Re: Book on progrock > Gideon Banner writes: > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 12:09:05 -0500 (EST) > From: Gideon B Banner > Subject: Book on progrock > > Was just looking through the Oxford University Press "Books on Music" > catalogue, and found the following: _Rocking the Classics: English > Progressive Rock and the Counterculture_, Edward Macan (Dec 1996, doesn't > list the publisher but probably Oxford) > > Description goes as follows: "In _Rocking the Classics_, the first > comprehensive study of progressive rock history, Edward Macan draws > together cultural theory, musicology, and music criticism, illuminating how > progressive rock served as a vital expression of the counterculture of the > late 1960s andf 1970s." Doesn't say whether or not Macan discusses Crimson > at all, but I bet he does. > > Gideon Banner I've read this very good book, and he mentions KC quite a bit. He also makes the comment that "Some critics consider [Fripp, Wetton, Cross, Bruford] the finest progressive rock lineup ever assembled." ==Ben Miller bmiller5 at ix dot netcom dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:08:43 -0700 From: Doug Abshire Subject: live shows for trade? a heretic & a nonheretic As a heretic, I have about 200 hrs of live crimso that I offer for trading purposes only no money involved (obviously)!. Please email privately & also flame privately. Please don't waste ET bandwidth pro"ing" or con"ing" live show taping / collecting. It's been done before. PS. Robert , As a nonheretic, I am still believer in your music and I document that with having spent more than $3000 to purchase your commercially available music over the past 25 years (ie Lps, cassettes, Cds, Lazerdisks, tickets to crimso shows etc). I have the complete crimso + related catalogue (100 Cds) This $3000 does not involve (oh my god!) boots or other noncommercial revunue soiurces for legitimate artists. I will continue to support you and purchase any commercially available CD / Cass / LP that enters the market plave. Thanks for your music being part of my life. It played an important role in my teens and early 20's in the US, my later 20's in South America (Lima Peru) , and my 30's in Africa (Nairobi & Karen Kenya). It continues to focus me in my 40's as I return & live / function again in the US. As the Maasai say, "ashe-o-ling" (its good!) and ole-seri (thanks!). PPS Listening to crimso on the serengeti / maasai mara is a trip! Seeing a lion chase down a gazelle or a zebra to crimso's "red" or viewing the southern hemisphere's star constellations (in Karen. Kenya) to the notes of "Starless & BibleBlack" (& others) marks important events in my life. PPPS Don't flame me via ET, come on, its a fact that tape traders exist (but still contribute significantly to the commerical legitimate market so flame me privately. PPPPS Email for a crimso list (privately!). Thanks, DA Love you all! Prog rock / electronic rock at its best! Djam Karet & Loren Nerell's Home page is at . Enjoy! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:03:07 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Brancaleone Subject: Tribute questionable, couple o' anagrams I don't know when the KC tribute concept was first conceived and discussed, and what KC thinks of it, etc. But I do have some problems/questions about it that I think need to be considered if not already done so. Almost more than anything else, KC represents to me musical integrity. They seem to have pretty consistently strove to use music as a lamp to guide into new territory, much the same way William Blake re-defined art (I find no it no coincidence that Fripp has quoted Blake). And with Fripp's stance on bootlegging, "music" business, etc., I've become real fond of KC's general priorities, i.e. music alone is the reason the listeners and performers gather. I think KC is about the musicians being in the privileged position of transmitting ideas previously unseen or brought into new light, and SHARING the new knowledge with audient/fan/etc. (I may be wrong, but its definitely my mindset when listening to Crimson) Sooooo, with all that in mind, why do a tribute album? Is whoever who's organizing the tribute album seeking to put together a fairly accurate re-representation of Crimson music? That would be counterproductive, to me. It's against what KC's about: the project may be a good display of technical skill and craft, but as R.G. Collingwood argued, art is not craft. It's a musical futility if the tribute is aiming to be exactly representational of KC, because it insults the creative element of music. I did read somewhere that the tribute would not be trying to impress KC, but I don't think it should offend KC's basic principles! Maybe an alternative would be (unless this is already the plan; I'm pretty clueless) to require KC covers to be completely original re-interpretations of whatever song is being covered. That would be interesting to me, and I would say that stays true to the creative element. But I would NOT want to hear cover songs that are fairly true to the originals, with a little "umph" added by the covering band. That's ugly, it's what happened with that stupid Rush tribute album (which Rush was against by the by). I'm talking COMPLETE re-interpretations of songs. Instead of listeners of the tribute album saying "hmm they went a little differently here, and there, and they played this other part just the same" (which is a total distraction to appreciation), listeners would be surprised by what they hear, and even appreciate new musical ideas unfolding before them. Isn't that what KC is about? If anyone thinks I've misrepresented KC, let me know. Here's an anagram for "Bruford Levin Fripp Belew": F'n Bud beer for liver of wop lip Here's one for "Bill Tony Robert Adrian": Iran bit boneyard troll. I think that last one's prophetic. jOE bRANCALEONE "Gravity impedes my progress." ------------------------------ From: "Matt George" Subject: TGD insert and Starless Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 12:08:41 -0000 This is from memory, let me know if it's accurate! It's buried somewhere within a taped version of TGD I happen to possess. "However, this means that from time to time our instruments go out of tune; if our violinist Daniel Dust falls over in a soporific heap, we will kick him gently or stop to re-tune our instruments. I'm sure you will appreciate these minor diversions for the weak foibles of the members of the group....." Also, I agree that the sustained guitar on Starless is superior to the violin; however, it should have been mixed up a bit more in the final production of Red; at some points it tends to blend in with the heavy mellotron as to become almost inaudible. The violin on TGD sounds quite sharp and jagged compared with the ease of the guitar. Matt George "The intellect strikes up the tune, and the will must dance to it...." --|| Schopenhauer bmgeorge at pacbell dot net ------------------------------ From: leslabb at ptd dot net Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 15:10:26 -0500 Subject: Joe Fripp or Robert Pesci? In ET 361 Sid Smith Commented as such: SS>To verbsofprey I say - thank you very much for your witty contribution to SS>the so called "great debate". Never mind who would play Robert Fripp in SS>the movie. It has to be Joe Pesci in Goodfellas mode. Actually anyone remember the Steven King mini series 'Golden Years'. I always thought that the actor who portrayed the mad scientist 'Dr. Toddhoffer' would make an excellent Fripp. Les Labbauf Email: leslabb at postoffice dot ptd dot net There is a fun and easy to use fixpack for WIN95, it's called OS/2 Warp http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb/index.html ------------------------------ From: David Maclennan Subject: DGM-US: Questions that need answers (& more) Date: 20 Mar 1997 09:49:09 +1200 A few points re ET#362: 1) DGM-USA: OK, I've seen the address and phone/fax nos. a few times now, but WHAT ABOUT AN E-MAIL ADDRESS? And will DGM-USA carry the same range of KC-related stuff that PossProds did (e.g. albums from former KC members, T-shirts, books, laser discs etc.)? Could the person who is running this operation (sorry, haven't got your name with me here) please post to ET and enlighten us? I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know. 2) Enjoyed Robert Cervero's account of the Epitaph playback. All the way from San Fran, eh? Nice for some :-) Still, were I a rich man (which I am definitely not) I would have HAPPILY flown half way around the world from New Zealand to attend myself. Sounds like it was a unique, one of a kind, never to be repeated event. One question relating to this: did anybody take photos of the band members together? What about putting them on the ET website for all of us to see. Hopefully as I type this my copy of Epitaph is on a plane somewhere between here and the UK. It's my birthday next week, so I hope it arrives in time for me to celebrate it by playing the whole 4 discs in one sitting! David Maclennan ------------------------------ Subject: Guitar Craft Level 1 announcement--Chile Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 17:18:23 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" The following message was received via fax on March 19th, 1997. Please forward this message to all interested parties. Guitar Craft Seminars--Chile Vinka Quintana P.O. Box 213-11, Nunoa, Santiago, Chile TeleFax (56-2) 635-2225 Santiago, March 1997 Hello, The course <> (Level 1) led by Robert Fripp will be taught at the beginning of July of 1997. This first course in Chile will have 25 openings. Application Letter To Robert: Please, to write a letter to Robert (please print), introducing yourself and explaining why you wish to participate in this course and your aim for attending: 1) Who are you? (background, personal information, etc.) 2) Why do you want to attend the course? 3) What is your aim? Send this letter via certified mail or fax to Vinka Quintana to the P.O. Box address indicated in the heading or to the following address: General Jofre 60, Santiago, Chile. The deadline to receive letters is April 18, 1997, after which the letters received will be sent via fax to Robert. The people selected to attend the course = will be advised in May. Other Information: Frank Sheldon will come from the United States to present the <> (F.M. Alexander). For the course you will need an acoustic guitar (with metal guitar strings), metronome, shoulder strap, spare guitar strings and alarm clark. A flashlight can also be useful. The place where the course will be held will be advised to the participants at a later day. All participants must bring their own towels and bed clothes or sleeping bags. Everything else (food, accomodation and instruction) will be provided. Although there will be heating, please be advised that the course will be dictated in winter. Also, participants should bring comfortable clothes (Alexander Technique), house shoes and outdoors shoes. The cost of the course is U$ 350. Those that are selected must pay U$ 200 before the end of May. The remainder at the beginning of the course in Chilean pesos or U.S. dollars. Robert will assisted by some members of <> and a Kitchen Team. Participants should refrain playing the guitar for a week before the course. Prepartion for Level 1: Robert strongly suggests taking courses with one of the preparators (Guitar Craft Preparator) a few months before the course. The purpose of these preparatory classes is to help those less experienced to make a better contribution and also to make a better use of the course. Fernando Kabusacki and/or Christian De Santis will come to Chile in May for a week end, to teach Guitar Craft's New Standard Tuning. This collective workshop will cost Ch$ 16,000 (U$ 38) and focuses on the primary exercises of Guitar Craft (GC Primary Exercises). The deadline to register will be May 3, 1997, and a deposit of Ch$ 10,000 (U$ 24) should be made. The balance will be canceled at the beginning of the course. I am at your disposal to clarify any doubts you may have in relation to the course. Many thanks! Vinka Quintana Those who encounter difficulty in reaching Vinka may contact Travis Hartnett via e-mail at hartnett dot t at apple dot com or by telephone at (512) 908-8640. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:37:12 -0700 (MST) From: tpayne at rmi dot net (thomas payne) Subject: Epitaph Many, many thanks to Robert Cervero in ET362 for the timely report on the Epitaph premiere. I was dying to be one of the transatlantic participants, but my responsibilities to my family came first, as they should. My envy, unlike my freedom, knows no bounds... ------------------------------ From: "Caron, Antoine" Subject: What about the beasts? Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:16:00 -0500 I'm sure I speak for many in thanking Robert Cervero for his excellent report on the Epitaph launching in London. It was the closest thing to actually being there. My only complaint: no mouth-watering description of some of the little beasts in attendance! Antoine W. Caron P.S. I'm referring, of course, to the inanimate, sugar-laden concoctions so aptly named by RF and other KC members. ------------------------------ From: "Scott Bickel" Subject: Epitaph Playback Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:50:10 -0600 Thanks to Robert Cervero for posting his remarks about the March 15th playback. Those of us who are longtime enthusiast/fans appreciate his thoughtful observations. Wish that we all could have been there! Scott Bickel ------------------------------ From: "Bailey, Jim" Subject: WOW! KC on the radio! Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 12:41:00 -0500 Just thought I'd mention that Q-107 here in Toronto is playing ITCotCK RIGHT NOW! (12:30 est). Deep Joy!!! There goes the flute solo! Grin grin grin. On a sad note, this will probably be my last post for some time, since I've just been shit-canned by the company I work for, and will be without access to this stuff for a while. It's been a load of fun, and I hope to be able to rejoin soon. Well, here comes the coda, so its time to go. 'Bye all. Keep Thakking! Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:45:12 -0500 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Epitaph Playback Thanks to Robert Cervero for his account of the Epitaph playback. As one of the crazy Brits he mentioned in his piece, I can only agree with his views that it was a very, very special event and I count myself as being exceptionally lucky to have been able to be part of it. It's really quite difficult to summarise how I feel about the Epitaph playback which I attended last week end. There's so much to say about it, so many points to recall and lay down. Yet every time I try I simply feel overwhelmed by the sheer weight of what happened. If it were a concert I'd be able to say whether it was a good or bad gig or who had played the best or loudest or worst. Although the event had many of the elements of a gig (musicians, merchandise, audience, pa, etc.) it was more akin to a family reunion and consequently, quite emotional. My own highlights are; Counting the off the tube stops to Hyde Park Corner Trying to recognise Crimson members (Ian McDonald and Peter Sinfield) and getting it wrong. Shaking John Wetton's hand (he is a god who walks upon this earth) Getting a large piece of Apple Pie from a tiny plate and into my mouth Receiving a cup of tea from an imperious waiter called Carlo Seeing Fripp yelling at people to eat the cakes Hearing Drop In for the very first time and gasping at the genesis of The Letters Watching Ian McDonald's reaction to hearing his music Watching Greg Lake's reaction to hearing Meeting Neil Talbot having only previously seen his name via ET Meeting other Crimheads who I last met at Shepherd's Bush a year ago and talking the hind legs off a donkey Seeing the cherubic Sinfield smiling as he signed autographs and confirming to me that Envelopes Of Yesterday was indeed about Fripp. Ian McDonald telling me he hoped to get the original masters plus out takes to McDonald & Giles and re-release them. Meeting Michael Giles in the pub after the event was over and asking him to consider the relationship between performer and audience Being very happy (and very drunk) on the tube to Southwark and a bed for the night Waking at 8.00 am the next day and reading the Epitaph booklet On the train back to Newcastle feeling incredibly pleased and profoundly smug at having seen all of the original members of King Crimson sitting together for over an hour. Thanks to all at DGM and all of the KC enthusiasts (Darren, Chris, Marlene, Alan and many others ) who made it such a great day. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #364 ********************************