Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #358 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 358 Sunday, 9 March 1997 Today's Topics: Questions for Tony Levin Larks' Tongues IV Responses for Fripp This is aimed at Elephant Talk but you might like it too Re: Crimso covers/PFM box Re: KC Japanese tribute Sylvian and Shamanism... Re: Elephant Talk Digest #354 Sylvian/Fripp Live in Japan The Bears ET 353 Discipline Glob Mob Palooza California Guitar Trio Various and Sundry Studios a tour set list request My Encounter with Fripp Shakespeare influence? Re:About that 6 degrees of freedom... Another KC/Tull connection "Progressive Endeavor" Globmobalooza The Provenance of USA: Asbury Park or Providence Fripp live w/ Peter Gabriel '78 or '79 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:05:25 -0500 (EST) From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Questions for Tony Levin Dear Team, Well you've had your chance to ask Robert some questions, and to ask Adrian some questions, but surely that's not enough to get the whole picture and the proper perspective on this group of musicians ;^) So exclusively for ET, Tony Levin has agreed to participate in a questions and answers process similar to the one just completed with Adrian. Simply email your questions to >> etmirror at aol dot com << up until 11:59.59PM Chicago time (CST) Sunday March 16th. We'll collate the questions and send them on to Tony. His answers will be the basis for future special editions of ET. No questions will be accepted after the cutoff time, so make sure you get your questions in on time. I want to extend a big thanks to Tony for accepting to spend some time answering our questions. Here's hoping we can come up with some worthwhile ones. Cheers! Dan ET Web ==> Send questions for Tony to >> etmirror at aol dot com << only! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 97 13:24:03 CST From: "WebMonkey" Subject: Larks' Tongues IV Neil Talbott writes: Organization: Lockheed Martin Tactical Defense Systems - Arizona Subject: Responses for Fripp Better never than late, but here we go anyway: i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast / fan and the musician? As has been stated previously, the relationship will depend very much on the nature of the music that is made, and also the motivations and aims, if you will, of the performer. For KC, there is an inordinate amount of hero worship that I have seen associated with very few other bands. In the more conventional rock 'n' roll / indie rock / punk arena, Rocket From The Crypt has a similar form of following where you sometimes wonder if the whole purpose of the band is just to produce slaves that serve the sole purpose of revering their sacred name. As in the case of KC as well, the tendency is not unfounded due to the brilliance of the music, but there is some intangible characteristic that rides the line so finely between brilliance and absurdity that a slightly misdirected step could destroy the pedestrian. I also think it was something to do with brightly colored clothing. ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? The audience / enthusiast / fan has the right to seeing a unique performance (live, that is) from the entertainers / musicians and should expect the performers to treat a live experience as a truly interactive experience for everyone involved. Everyone wants to know that the show they were at was special in some way, and not just because the performer thought he / she / they played particularly well / badly / mediocre. Generally, only the performer will know this. One of the strongest points of KC is their ability to combine on stage both album-like precision with meanderings that will never be heard again unless recorded. A surprise from the KC back catalog never hurts either. iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / enthusiast / fan? We have the responsibilty of reacting at all times to the experience, whether we have been prompted to do so or not. (This includes just sitting there and shutting the hell up.) With this comes the responsibility to respect not only the musicians performing, but also the fans around us as we experience the performance. I know that I feel a kinship with those at a Crimson gig, much in the same way I do at many punk rock shows, but I also don't want some guy / gal / other tapping me on the shoulder telling me KC trivia every two seconds or doing their best Belew impersonation at full volume. iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists? To a) Properly rock. b) Have interesting hair. (I think we can all agree that KC fits this one.) c) Know that, whether they are great or not in their own mind, that the audience has the ultimate say in the matter. v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? See iv. Mohawk. Pink. -- ________________________________________ | Chris McGrath | | | | email: mcgrac at master dot tds-az dot lmco dot com | |----------------------------------------| | "What poor gods we do make." | | -Naked Raygun | |________________________________________| ------------------------------ From: bullj1 at westatpo dot westat dot com Date: Tue, 04 Mar 97 18:43:08 EDT Subject: This is aimed at Elephant Talk but you might like it too March 4, 1997 Dear ETers, The "All of Everything" seminar took place at the Baltimore Holistic Center Feb. 27 - Mar. 2. Since Robert Fripp attended the seminar and provided soundscapes, a report seemed in order. For ET, I'll focus on Robert's soundscapes which, in general, focused on sounds rather than note patterns or soaring leads. Robert came to the seminar from Nashville, having worked with Trey and Adrian on new KC material. He was, as always, well-groomed, congenial, generous, and sporting a rad set of sideburns suggested by Toyah. (Now you know what side of the Robert's-a-God / Robert's-a-creep issue I'm on.) If you want more information on the seminar, please contact me directly (unless Toby H. prefers I write to the group). Part of the task of the seminar organizers was "to enable a diversity of participants with their diverse backgrounds and interests to come together in multifarious ways". John Allen, one of the forces behind Biosphere 2, presented on Magic If: The Theater of Reality. Anthony Blake, a Gurdjieff/ Bennett link, presented on Systematics as a Method. William Pensinger presented on The Time-Logics of Identity Transparency. Dr. Edith Wallace, a Jungian link, presented on The Intuitive Approach. Each day was organized along the lines of: 2 presentations in the morning, alternatives in the early afternoon, whole group dialogue in the late afternoon, presentation in the evening, followed by or combined with a soundscape. The alternatives included making collages and discussing them with Dr. Wallace, a Movement of Objects game devised by Leslie Schwing and Janet Young, and the Immediate Learning Method described by Anthony Blake and Edward Matchett. There were many other activities available to the participants. Thursday's soundscape was presented after John Allen's presentation on biospheres. Robert had asked some people standing around the coffee maker to suggest notes - they were: E A C D# and F. Robert-and-equipment (for you tech-heads: red (!) Fernandes Les Paul copy with whammy, 2 Bag End speakers, 1 equipment rack, array of pedals, etc.) were set up in a corner of the main presentation room. Some participants left the rows of chairs and sat or lay on the floor. The hour was late, many were tired from the day's work, and the soundscape reflected that plus a gentle quality. It began and ended with a pattern of not-too-high bell tones, the bell tones lowered, voice/chorus sounds throughout. Friday's soundscape was part of William Pensinger's presentation / exercise which involved walking around the room, exploring the perception of time and space. WP talked through the exercise for awhile and then Robert came in with the soundscape. The soundscape was gentler than the night before, not so many different pitches, less bells, and very much facilitated the exercise. It also had the effect of disengaging me from nasty traffic on the drive home. On Saturday morning, I caught a bit of a soundscape before the main room started filling up. I don't know whether Robert was just checking things or "tuning" the room, but it was my favorite of the seminar. It had the nice, low bell tones, little voice/chorus sounds, more "guitar-like" with double-stops and some note patterns, oriental sounding. The evening soundscape was again part of William Pensinger's presentation/walking exercise. The soundscape was at times more sinister or bold, possibly reflecting the multiple Socratic question-and-answer sessions walking around the room. Sunday's soundscape followed presentations by Anthony Blake and Edith Wallace. Edith suggested people use their collages in response to the soundscape. Robert told the participants to do whatever they liked during the soundscape, indicating: whether you danced, sat still, conversed, whatever, the music will be there. The soundscape was oriental, plucked sounds in a 3 - 5 note pattern, low tones, some insistent points, like a sci-fi or mystery movie set in Japan. It faded to the snoring of one of the participants. One of the themes that emerged during the seminar was that of connection. I think, in order for connection to be possible, there must be a common aim, however fleeting or unspoken. The last group dialogue of the seminar touched on the value, to the participants, of sealing and recapitulating an event. It seemed Robert's soundscapes were bound by and recapitulated the events and people of each day. Sorry this went on so long - a lot happened. JoanBull Rockville MD bullj1 at westat dot com ------------------------------ From: David Maclennan Subject: Re: Crimso covers/PFM box Date: 05 Mar 1997 15:06:01 +1200 >From: terry kroetsch >Subject: Crimso Covers > >Here are a couple more to add to the list: > >PFM (you know, Premiata Forneria Marconi, from Italy and once on ELP's >Manticore label): > >21st Century Schizoid Man, Poseidon and Picture of the City > >All found on the newly released LIVE box set (one of the most beautiful >packages I've seen) Agreed! It is a fine box, and quite an eye-opener. I never realised just what a "blowing" band PFM were. In many ways this set is PFM's "Great Deceiver", in that there are is a lot of improv stuff on it. Their post-"Chocolate Kings" work seemed to lean more towards fusion jazz than the classic prog sounds of the first few albums. As for their KC covers, these (and indeed most of disc 1 of the set) are the least interesting part of the box, although they are certainly well played - even at this early stage, PFM were tight as! I find myself playing discs 3 and 4 mostly, as this covers a period in the band's history I was not familiar with (until I took the on-ramp onto the Infobahn a couple of years back, I wasn't aware PFM did anything after "Choc Kings". When I discovered a PFM site via the prog homepage, I realised how ignorant I was!) Now if only I could get hold of an English translation of the booklet in the PFM set.... David Maclennan Wellington New Zealand (eagerly awaiting his copy of "Epitaph"....) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 18:26:31 -0800 From: rob dot rosen at West dot Sun dot COM ( Rob Rosen - SMCC Project Manager) Subject: Re: KC Japanese tribute >There's a Japanese band called BI KYO RAN who recorded an entire live album >of KC covers, entitled "Live vol. 4" If any of the ETers have ever managed >to grab this disc, please let us know how it is, if it's worth spending >time and money (a lot indeed for Jap pressings !) in chasing it and possibly >where to find it. I bought my copy of "Madoromi (Live Vol. 4)" a couple of years ago. I only listened to it a few times, but it definitely was way up there on the "chuckle meter." Note-for-note renditions of several mid-70s classics (Fracture, Book of Saturday, Great Deceiver etc). For me it was basically a novelty item, but others (esp. BiKyoRan fans) might find it more essential. I bought my copy from Greg at Round Sounds for $US20. Round Sounds is now (sadly) only a mail-order house in Redondo Beach, CA (area code 714). Rob *-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rob Rosen Project Management SMCC 510.463.5432 Rob dot Rosen at West dot Sun dot COM FAX:510.734.9910 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 01:26:16 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher John Cole Subject: Sylvian and Shamanism... Hello one and all, I have a quick question for people and I am hoping someone can fill me in. I am wondering if anyone out there int he world ahs information about David Sylvian's "In Praise of Shamans Tour"????? I would be greatly interested to find out why this happened, what it encompassed and where the Shamans worked into the whole process and to what extent. If anyone has any information please let me know. Thanks and take care. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 16:33:05 +1000 From: Eric Best Organization: Centred Learning Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #354 Greetings, There was a statement in the ET digest that grabbed my attention: > ** Adrian replies... > > Lighten up > and King Crimson > do not belong > in the same sentence. This caused me to consider what is essential to King Crimson's music, as opposed to what is merely characteristic, or, indeed, out of character. This issue effects considerations regarding what pieces might be considered central to the canon of their recorded material and which may be regarded as peripheral. Put more concretely, if I was to introduce someone to the band by way of putting together a cassette, what criteria would I use to choose some pieces and exclude others? For me, there is one overiding criterion, which has nothing whatsoever with style; and that is the music's power to suggest the sublime. This, of course, is a universal quality: it transcends any particular style or genre of music. It is also essential: it is the difference between life and death. I expect that we all have encountered music that displays much technical craft but which leaves us with a sense of lifelessness and, likewise, experienced naive music that reminds us that we are alive and what the quality of that life is. It might seem strange to have a universal as the canonical criterion for a particular band with a particular vocabulary. Nevertheless, my own continuing interest in this band's work is built on a trust that this is a fundamental aspiration in Robert's musical drive. The partiular stylistic roads he takes is of much less importance to me than his destination. I think that this gives this band a stylistic freedom that many other bands do not enjoy. If, for instance, King Crimson were to perform a Country and Western song and that song was to hint at transcendence then it would be worthy of inclusion in the canon [perhaps!]. Where the Spirit is present, all else is forgiven. Only when music fails to aspire do stylistic considerations command attention. Thus for me, 'Islands' may claim a place alongside 'Starless' or 'Fracture' or 'The Sheltering Sky' as true King Crimson work. If ever I were to sense that King Crimson was succumbing to the temptation of self-conciously placing a certain style of music above the need for their music to be a medium of revelation, then you might find me grooving to Spinal Tap instead! Yours, Eric Best. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:46:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Peter Thompson Subject: Sylvian/Fripp Live in Japan Does anyone know whether this concert is available on video? I know that it is available on Laserdisc from Possible Productions but as I have neither $60 nor a Laserdisc player I would prefer a PAL VHS version. On the subject of bootlegs: why don't we send Mr Fripp a pound everytime we buy a bootleg then he'll be happy and we can listen with a clear conscience? Just a thought...... Peter Thompson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 07:52:41 -0500 (EST) From: BABOOSKA at aol dot com Subject: The Bears I've been on Elephant Talk for about 2 weeks and I haven't heard any mention of this band. Adrian played/was member in the late 80s. I'm looking for their CDs - they put 2 out. Anyone have any idea, where to get them? I live in Philly, USA if that helps. I went to see the Bears in May of 1988 at the dearly departed Chestnut Cabaret in Philly. Adrian was in great form. My Friends and I stood right next to the drummer and at the end of the show he gave my friend the set list. I have the two CDs on tape but would like to know if anything ever came of the band. I recall an interview that Adrian said that he would make a solo album, then get back with the Bears. Anybody have any info.. Sorry about the rambling post, but I'm new to all of this and am trying to get my feet wet. "Fear is never boring" Ken ------------------------------ From: bullj1 at westatpo dot westat dot com Date: Wed, 05 Mar 97 10:26:24 EDT Subject: ET 353 Re: ET353 New Standard Tuning is CGDAEG (low to high). It appeared shortly before the first Guitar Craft courses in 1985. I could be wrong but I think Robert uses it exclusively now. So, for recordings, look for those made in 1985 and later. Robert wrote columns for Guitar Player in 1990. I use the NST (to good effect? well ...). I still use the old standard tuning but would reckon it's old 10% / NST 90%. I like the widened range from low C to high G. For further information, I would recommend taking a course - like the one being offered in Seattle this weekend (contact Murray Kopelberg at mkopelbe at students dot wisc dot edu). Just a hint: the Guitar Craft courses aren't guaranteed to be available in the future, often are held on other (more time and $ to get to) continents, and are valuable to all (not just guitar players). I also will miss Mark Perry's version of Possible Productions and wish him and that new guy Tedesco well. Joan Bull Rockville MD bullj1 at westat dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:55:15 -0500 (EST) From: ASFSeattle at aol dot com Subject: Discipline Glob Mob Palooza Hello. Haven't been keeping up with my ET's lately so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned. Noted in the local "Stranger" paper this weekend that Discipline Global Mobile is throwing their own Lalapalooza -like event. Coming to Seattle this week on March 06, 1997. Show is at the Broadway Performance Hall. Anyone know who the special guest is? The bill is listed as follows: 1. The California Guitar Trio 2. Trey Gunn 3. Los Gauchos 4. Tony Gabelle 5. "Special Guest" Rgds, Matt > ------------------------------ Date: 05 Mar 97 12:02:09 EST From: George White <75047 dot 3217 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: California Guitar Trio Hi Toby and all: My wife and I had the good fortune to see the California Guitar Trio, accompanied by Trey Gunn and Bill Janssen, in Denver last Saturday night (March 1). They put on a terrific, intimate show for a crowd of less than 200 in a very small former church in downtown Denver. The set began, with just the Trio on stage, with Yamanishi Blues and included such favorites as Melrose Avenue and Walk Don't Run. After about 45 minutes, Trey Gunn walked out and joined the Trio. And then, a piece or two later Bill Jansen started playing a solo from the balconey. Those of us sitting on the orchestra level couldn't see him as his lovely solo filled the theater. It was a great musical moment. He then came down to join the others on stage. Soon the five musicians were locked into a groove (sorry I don't know the song's name) in which they were all creating the most wonderful sounds. They was one of those "special moments" that take a performance like this above the level of typical arena concerts. It was incredible, and after the piece ended, my wife leaned over and whispered, "That was perfect music." She was right. The show ended with a rousing Misserlou from the Trio, and then a reprise of Yamanishi Blues that they played standing off the stage in front of the first row. Wonderous stuff. Afterward the Trio and Trey graciously signed CDs and chatted with audience members. A great end to a memorable show. We'd seen the Trio before, opening for Crimson twice in Denver during the last tour, but this special, intimate evening was the best yet. Our 17-year connection to the Crimson family tree was solidified even more. Thanks, Paul and Bert and Hideyo and Trey and Bill for providing/participating in this magical musical night. Though you don't know us, and we admittedly don't know you, it *felt* the entire time as though we were among friends. George White Denver, Colo. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:37:54 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Various and Sundry Hello ET folks. Thanks again to Toby for the last month or two in particular. A labor of love, or else insanity. In either case, respect and appreciation are given. The tribute record: Fripp said that the aim of the tribute should be clearly stated, and someone replied "The aim of the tribute record is to give tribute". That phrase is a formula for mediocrity, if it is to be done. How about: "The aim of the tribute album will be to demonstrate an appreciation of the musical and artistic principals of King Crimson, through reflection and application". I would think there should be a majority of Crimson covers, but perhaps a couple of really excellent originals. A small committee should be set up, with one final arbiter. There should be perhaps one person per continent (or at least one N American, S American, and one European) reviewer, who funnels the best to that final arbiter. Strict rules should be made about the size of submissions, other wise everyone and his brother will probably send tapes of his garage-band, hoping to get "lucky" (knowing that Fripp, at least, may end up hearing it). In addition, if DATs are an OK format, a potential reviwer will need to be technology-ready. A Soundscapes idea for Fripp: Mr Fripp: Since you sometimes grant wishes, how about doing a Soundscape in Grand Central Station (NYC, of course), during the morning commute. The acoustics are wonderful. You could actually be placed entirely out-of-view, anonymously watching the reaction of commuters, shoudl you choose. It would be unearthly, anonymous, and fascinating. Bootlegging: It is clear that the ideal way to stop bootlegging is to make every concert availble via mailorder. The concert program could state that "a copy of the DAT tape of this performance is available for a nominal fee direct from DGM....." Once this policy were well-known (that a high-quality tape was availbe direct), bootlegging would dissappear. And its not like you don't already make those DATs anyway. -Emory. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 97 19:39:55 UT From: "William Hearne" Subject: Studios I have been a Crimso listener since 1969, and have listened to KC on a fairly regular basis since that time. I have not been an ET reader for very long so what I am suggesting might be a topic which has been discussed, dismissed, or otherwise deemed unworthy of consideration. Nevertheless, I would like feedback, hopefully from RF. One of the most common methods of referring to the several Crimso iterations is by reference to a key individual who was a member band on a "permanent" basis (perhaps "permanent" is not the best choice of words here; would "full" member be more accurate?). For example, one often hears reference to the 1974 Crimso as the "Wetton era" Crimso. Given the overlap of personnel on various albums, I find this nomenclature somewhat unwieldy. More importantly, the focus on a particular individual often might not be the aspect of a particular version which differentiates it from another version. In short, I question the practice of classifying Crimso's various iterations solely by reference to a particular band member. I posit that an equally accurate method of referring to the various Crimso iterations might be by the studio in which a particular album was recorded. For instance, the first three albums/conglomerations of Crimso might properly be referred to as the "Wessex Crimso." I find that the first three albums have far more in common than not, even taking into account the obvious differences in personnel. Similarly, "Islands" and "Larks' Tongues" fall into the "Command Crimso." Again, I find that "Islands" shares more similarities with "Larks" than it does with its predecessors, and that "Larks'" shares more similarities with "Islands" than with subsequent albums (I suggest that readers go back and listen with an open mind to these two albums before summarily rejecting this assertion). I do not have the studio information on "Discipline," "Beat," or "TOAPP" so I cannot further examine this concept. However, my questions for RF/ET readers are these: What role, if any, does the studio play in defining Crimso's studio albums? Were the various studios selected on any bases other than availability or cost, and if so, what were the factors which affected the selections? ------------------------------ From: trylle%gvn dot net at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: a tour set list request Date: Wed, 5 Mar 97 12:58:17 -0000 Greetings to Robert Fripp! Having recently read Adrian Belew's replies to ETers' questions (in which "Starless" won the prize for most frequently requested older Krimsong to be resurrected during any upcoming concert tour), I am moved to make a request of my own. I would ask the band as a whole, and specifically you, Mr. Fripp (since Mr. Belew alluded to the seeming fact that you have sole decision-making power regarding the possible playing of older material in concert), to give the appropriate consideration to playing one of the following pieces of music during your next concert tour: 1) Fracture (the 10-minute+ full length version), 2) Any thing from the second half of the second side of Starless and Bible Black, or 3) Fracture (the unabridged edition). I thank you for giving thought to this request for consideration. - Tommy Kochel "Entertainment is about telling everybody that everything's alright but music is on the side of the upsetters and that's where I'm at." - Bill Bruford, Sounds, April 10, 1976 "English teachers do it real good" - license plate frame on my car ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 19:53:46 -0800 From: verbsofprey at waonline dot com Subject: My Encounter with Fripp Dear Team: Since so many people have weighed in with so many edifying and entertaining stories of meeting robert Fripp; and since the time has come, it would seem, for Mr. Fripp to address these incidences with his own brand of care, preciscion, and delicacy; I therefore would like to relate my own "The Day I met Robert Fripp" story, in light of his recent comments. It was during the Crimson tour of late 1995 that I had this meeting with "the great one". I was attending the show at Massey Hall in downtown Toronto. I had driven all the way from Iowa, by way of a friend in New York. After the BRILLIANT show, we waited around the back, hoping to get a glimpse of the artists departing. We did in fact meet many other members of Crimson, as well as the California Guitar trio, but this was not satisfying. It would appear that the man everyone was waing for was not coming out. Then, I noticed that the backstage door did not completely close when the gaurd went back in once. Therefore it was not locked, I assumed. after a short deliberation, I walked in. To my amazement, I walked right past people- roadies, security, etc. Just by pretending to belong there. I pretended to look bored, and tired, like everyone else. That's when I saw him. Robert was standing alone near a corner in one of the small backstage rooms. He had a coffee cup in his hands. I hesitated, then when everyone else had left the room, I gathered my courage, and walked right up to him. I was nervous- what would he say? What would he do? Here I was, literally invading his privacy, demanding a moment of his time. How soon till i got caught? My heart raced like an indy car. He watched me approach. He did not look startled. He did not look suprised, or afraid, or did he display any of the other reactions i had heard about in the past. He was very calm, warm, even inviting. He smiled at me as I approached. This was great! I let my gaurd down entirely, and stopped in front of him, and opened my mouth to speak. But he cut me off. He was grinning ear to ear. He said to me "So, Ted, how many did you get?" I was a bit shocked. My name's not Ted. Before I could say anything, he reached into his pocket and pulled out a fat wad of 20 dollar bills, American. Then he said "I hope you got some pretty ones- the hookers in London were abominable. Did Adrian already give you his half? He better have. I'm not going to lend that Bastard anymore whoring money till he pays me off for Japan" I must have turned completely white, because then he looked at me pretty funny, and said "You are Ted, right?" I was shocked, and shook my head no. His eyes narrowed, and his shoulders tensed. Fripp said "Then you must be Frank- with my eightball of blow, right?". I meekly shook my head again. I opened my mouth to make a plaintive apology and quickly exit, but before I could, WHAM! Fripp's knee came right up in my groin. I doubled over in agony, stunned. then Fripp smashed a guitar over my head, sending me to the floor. He repeatedly kicked me in the kidneys, screaming something over and over again about this "not being the appropriate time / place / context for the malappropriation of the relationship between enthusiast / fan / audient and the artist. He was so full of rage that I could see large dropplets of spit flying from his mouth as he screamed. Then, after snatching my wallet out of my pocket to get my hard - earned money, he wrapped a guitar string around my neck and dragged me out to the alley way, and with one last impact from his steel toed boot, made with perfect aim acheived with my suffering, admonished me to further consider my responsibility as a fan / enthusiast / audient. The door slammed, and I never saw him again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 97 20:45:50 CST From: "WebMonkey" Subject: Shakespeare influence? While reading "Othello" today a line stood out at me. In act 3, scene 3, Othello believes that his lieutenant Cassio is sleeping w/ Desdemonda, Othello's wife. In lines 441-442, he describes his describes his love turning into "black vengeance" and "tyrannous hate". Here is the interesting line: Othello: Swell bosom, with thy fraught, for 'tis of aspics' tongues! I wonder if Jamie Muir had this in mind when he came up with the title Larks' Tongues in Aspic. I know that that the title symbolizes the recording of music, the entrapment of beautiful sound, but the structure of the song starts out very lovely and then proceeds into a "black vengeance". While this might not be a direct influence for the musical material, it's still an interesting coincedence. I hope I haven't wasted anyone's time w/ this post. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 01:21:37 +0500 From: Thomas Bail Subject: Re:About that 6 degrees of freedom... Seems that everyone is not noticing a central theme to all this 6 degrees of freedom nonsense. Most of the artists and bands that are getting linked to KC are, in their own respects, on the fringe, so to speak. Whether it be Zappa, NIN, or The Velvet Underground (Don't know what all that Tom Jones business was about a few ET's ago) they are all musicians that are doing/have done what they want with music instead of catering to the masses. So here is my challenge, link some of these one hit wonders to KC, like 2-Live Crew, ABBA, Vanilla Ice, The Bee-Gees, Boys-II-Men, Rick Springfield, Micheal Jackson, Ace-of-Base, Def Lepard, Scorpions and just about anything playing on MTV nowadays (I could go on for days, just because somebody can buy a Casio keyboard with a built in drum machine... Yeesh). After doing this, go down to your local pub/bar, think about what you have just done, down a few to squander the thought, then visit your local record store and pick up some albums containing real music that have the one meaningful link to KC, thought and expression, and enjoy the fact that some musicians are artists. Tom Bail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:19:57 +0530 From: rampini at telnetwork dot it (Antonio Rampini) Subject: Another KC/Tull connection I have read the Mike C. one from Toronto on the latest ET, and here's another (and more direct) connection beetween KC and Jethro Tull (my friend Dario Tortora reminded me the point: Dario, you were right). 1) Eddie Jobson played with Tull during the "A" years; 2) Jobson played also with KC during the "USA" tour & album! Greetings to all the KC enthusiasts. CIAO Antonio R. *------------------------------------------- dr. Antonio Rampini BIAS Group Milano Viale Premuda, 2 - 20129 Milano Tel. 02/55181842 - Fax 02/55184161/55016755 *------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 3:28:56 EST From: John Toothman Subject: "Progressive Endeavor" My sincere regards to all those taking the time to read the following. For several months now, I have pondered on the responsibilities of the musical artist in regards to the art form. The following represents my thoughts on the matter, in a very early compositional stage. Please donate the courtesy of examining the contents of this essay. Any responses may be addressed to: twd at eden dot rutgers dot edu Also note that in transferring the document from a word processing database to an eimail account, the system has deciphered certain characters of the fonts in a rather annoying way. As far as I have noticed, the quotation marks have been altered to "R" and "S". As for the organization itself, please forgive me: It's late, I'm tired. Thank you for your patience. Without further delay.... Strategies for Musicians of the Twentyfirst Century by John Toothman As the next millennium approaches, we, as artists committed to progressive endeavor, must contend that in order for the future of music to bear any significance whatsoever, it must abandon any resemblance of the past. All that which defines musical expression, specifically of the latter half of the Twentieth Century, must be identified, analyzed and resolved accordingly. The problem, however, of music in the Post-Modern era is that the authority to define expression no longer belongs to a single entity, but rather is divested amongst the individual within the larger context of the art form. This suggests that the characteristics of musical expression of the late Twentieth Century are not representative of the whole, but are individual approaches to music. A solution to this problem may, yet, be found when the characteristics of personal expression are addressed by the musician on a subjective level rather than objectivized. The questions asked of personal expression begin when one has found his/her bearing in Post-Modernism. This is so that the artist is fully aware, and, thus, responsible for the trajectory that his/her music will be executed under. It is important to remember, however, that neither the music nor the musician alone qualifies as RPost-ModernS until each has been assessed within the context of Post-Modernism. Two key elements from this context will be addressed in this discourse. One is the notion of simultaneous, opposing authority figures governing musical expression. The other is that of commodity and, in turn, expression within the consumer culture. These factors are, nonetheless, conjunctive and autonomous of one another. Author and art critic Terry Eagleton has written that Post-Modernism calls us to Rembrace the brute objectivity of random subjectivityS. This implies the negation and replacement of a single authority in favor of creative anarchy. The musician is divested of all expressive restriction which may have developed from the imposition of history, tradition and acculturation. Hence, there is RaestheticS sovereignty and authority of expression that is inherent to the artist (RaestheticS as the term relates to sensory stimuli being conditioned as having a judgment value, i.e. RgoodS versus RbadS, etc.), and However, it is not an unprecedented statement that even in the late Twentieth Century, musicians continue to resign themselves to the conventions of aesthetics. Chord progression, verse/chorus structure, lyrical concepts and ensemble configuration, to generalize, are among the compositional elements within RPopularS music that have exhausted their original integrity. {cite examples of each} These examples serve to elucidate the banality of aesthetic conventions that, in the late Twentieth Century, acculturate musicians and assert themselves as authorities based on tradition and history. The opposition between musical expression independent of acculturation and retrograde composition based on convention does not, however, result in conflict, nor in compromise. As Eagleton states, RRather than languish between in some intolerable conflict between its materiality and its aesthetic structure, it can always collapse that conflict on one side, becoming aesthetically what it is economicallyS. What it is economically is a commodity; a Rmusic industryS. Music is both an expression of industrialization and an industrialized product. Its aesthetic is based on consumer culture and its economic viability is based on traditional approaches, because tradition is a Rtime-honoredS set of practices subsidized through generations. Tradition is highly marketable, and such a questionable proposition can be validated by conversely examining the success, or lack thereof, of musical expression in the marketplace. Yet, before doing so, it is necessary to explore, as well, the various connotations of RsuccessS. Success, most fundamentally, serves as gauge for the musician; it is a system that informs the artist of whether or not (or how much of) his/her expression is being accepted in the marketplace. It stands to reason that what the musicianUs patronage can accept, they can, in turn, appreciate. In the marketplace intrinsic of the latter half of the Twentieth Century (or late Capitalism, but I wish to temporarily avoid the politics of the issue), the medium for conveying appreciation is primarily monetary. The music one appreciates, one can purchase, thus reinforcing the concept of music as commodity; the artist is made ostensibly aware of his/her RsuccessS by how much financial gain his/her expression reciprocates. The problematic aspect of this type of appreciation is that it imposes an objective standard of measurement on what is, before all other things, a subjective expression. When success is defined by commercial standards, the musician is misguided by an contradictory authority figure empowered with unqualified rationale. As previously suggested, the aesthetic of RsuccessfulS music in the consumer culture is based on tradition, and may, thus, be confirmed by comparing those expressions which RfailS with those that RsucceedS commercially. {cite examples of each} The examples of music of lesser conformity present a consistency that asserts the artistsU subjective integrity and authority. It is a pattern akin to this that qualifies true artistic success and, therefore, lends itself as a tool with which to redefine musical expression in the Twentyfirst Century. As musicians embracing the next millennium with the intention of progress, it is imperative that we recognize that continued submersion into to the Post-Modern context places us in a retro-syncracy with creative expression. In redefining musical art form, the first strategy is to seize total control, authority, and responsibility over individual expression. The artist must not allow his/her music to be subservient to commercial standards of success, but rather, be appreciated in an appropriately subjective language. Keep in mind that subjectivity is not ignorance of commercial value, but, instead, suggests commercial value as an insignificant, or, at least, a tempered element in musical expression. Furthermore, the music of the progressive artist should become inaccessible to the benign judgment of tradition and history sponsored by conventional media formats including radio, television, computer(WWW), disc, and cassettes, More restrictive methods of promotion, the ideal being live performance, are potential devices to help resist the commodification of music in the Twentyfirst Century. "There is a certain measure of cheating that conducts learning; There is a certain degree of stealing respected as appropriation". My compliments to Mr. Robert Fripp and Mr. Brian Eno, and to each of their "progressive endeavors". ------------------------------ From: "Terry" Subject: Globmobalooza Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:26:50 -0800 Just returned to Vancouver from Seattle after seeing a great show. What a wonderful evening of guitar craft. I was pleasentaly suprised by the group "Los Gauchos" despiter their equipment difficulties and would have liked to have heard more. The ex-local boy on 12 string was good but was obviously out classed. Trey's playful pieces with Jarrod the local bongo master was highly energetic and entertaing. All in all it was just great to be part of such an intimate event. Fripp himself would have thanked the audience as they behaved perfectly. Not one single "WOOOHOOOOO". Will this event happen again??? Thanx Seattle!!! Terry Weaver http://www.helix.net/~wildman/default.htm *---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 10:29:32 +0100 From: Paul-Martin dot Davies at France dot Sun dot COM (Paul M Davies - Sun Microsystems) Subject: The Provenance of USA: Asbury Park or Providence Chris Mitchell's review of "USA" echoes what the original YPGtKC booklet said: that most of "USA" was recorded at Providence. Elsewhere it has been said that with the release of "TGD" and "Frame by Frame" all of the material on "USA" is now available. Is this really so? The performances of "LTIA Pt II", "Exiles" and "Lament" on "TGD" sound very different from those on "USA". It sounds like the versions on "USA" came from the same concert as "Asbury Park" (which presumably takes its name from the place where it was recorded). The version of "Easy Money" on "USA" sounds very different to the version from Penn State on "TGD" disc 2. However, the version of "Schizoid Man" on TGD is similar enough to that on "USA" to make me wonder if they're the same performance. In which case, where did the distortion on the vocals on the "USA" version come from? Questions, questions. Here's hoping that the forthcoming "USA II" will provide the answers. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1904 07:58:19 +0000 From: Jay Nittoli Subject: Fripp live w/ Peter Gabriel '78 or '79 Can someone please confirm this for me. I am aware that RF played in the wings on the first two PG tours. I saw PG @ The Palladium in NYC in '78 or '79 (the second tour). I recall during one of the encores PG's band played The Kinks - All Day And All Of The Night, and RF came out front center stage, dropped to his knees and burned down the house. Was anyone else there to confirm this? Thank you, Jay ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #358 ********************************