Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #356 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 356 Tuesday, 4 March 1997 Today's Topics: John Wetton live Questions4Adrian KC Japanese tribute The Arabian Fripp Re Adrians replies Fripp's quiz Crimso Covers Enough 'Bout His Frippness NST and the Devil's Interval (Augmented 4th) Stick part from Elephant Talk (guitar transcript) Greg Lake in The Artist Shop Boring Elephant Talk Fripp string quintet on video ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- ********************************************************************** TOP TIP: Send your posts *only* to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. Posts sent to any other address will never make it to ET! ********************************************************************** Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 18:08:27 +0100 From: GW Subject: John Wetton live * kraut-english on * On April 5. John Wetton will play at the Star Club in Oberhausen, Germany. I saw him there in 1995 and it was _great_ ! Just like to know whether other ET-readers will be there. It would be nice to meet them in _real life_ ... :-) It is a chance to get "Starless" life ... but only the vocal part, of course. I wonder what the double trio would do with the instrumental part of Starless ... perhaps an idea for the next KC-tour ?? Ciao GW * kraut-english off * ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:23:48 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Questions4Adrian Elephant-Talk Digest #354, Adrian Belew wrote... > Lastly, I have a horrible legitimate fear of flying. Ooohh...this means that you can forget doing 'Starless', Adrian. Just do 'One More Red Nightmare' instead. :) Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland : Fax 0131-653-6124 crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk : Columnated Ruins Domino ------------------------------ From: max dot bracco at iol dot it Date: Sat, 01 Mar 97 23:46:08 Subject: KC Japanese tribute There's a Japanese band called BI KYO RAN who recorded an entire live album of KC covers, entitled "Live vol. 4" If any of the ETers have ever managed to grab this disc, please let = us know how it is, if it's worth spending time and money (a lot indeed for Jap pressings !) in chasing it and possibly where to find it. This band has always been very Crimson oriented : I heard only their first studio album, in which they transformed the "Larks part 1" Fripp's solo into a theme for the whole band ! Special news from Japanese Eters about this group are welcomed. ThrakByes MAX from Italy ------------------------------ From: max dot bracco at iol dot it Date: Sat, 01 Mar 97 23:46:16 Subject: The Arabian Fripp Some of friends Eters have mentioned recently the Cheikha Rimitti album "Sidi Mansour", in which Fripp guests electrifing some of the RAI-funk songs. I suggest you to check the other disc "Unreleased tracks from the Sidi Mansour album" (Media 7 Records) : it's more experimental, featuring much more killer Frippian solos and even a 19 minutes track in which the arabian singer cries over Frippertronics ! In that song RF even solos over his Soundscapes carpet. ThrakByes MAX from Italy ------------------------------ From: Paul Parkinson Subject: Re Adrians replies Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 22:27:27 -0000 <> I am **very** interested !! When, where, how much etc etc - Is this a DGM release ? << Bingo! It's official, "Starless" is the winner!>> Wonderful ! Is this a guarantee of its inclusion or simply a measure of the number of people who voted for it ? If the former is true then I will certainly be going to the gigs in London as and when Krimson play. If it is the latter then keep adding my name to the list of requestees until we can get the former ! Regards Paul Parkinson Music is the arithmetic of sounds as optics is the geometry of light Claude Debussy You just pick a chord, go TWANG and you've got music Sid Vicious ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 01:08:00 -0800 From: C dot Leach at mocha dot iceinternet dot com (Cynthia Leach) Subject: Fripp's quiz As a first time "poster", I must say how delighted I am to be able to waste my time so enjoyably (sp?). It's nice to scan the submissions of all you ETers and note the ones who try their damndest to defend, explain, and quantise Fripp's every move as if he were unable to, even if he did care. Of course, for saying that, I'm now guilty. He may indeed care, my point being my wondering about the point of ET. As a virtual-cafe where fans allovertheworld can chew the fat about a common interest, it seems to work well. But the one-upmanship I detect in many posts spoils what could be innocent chatter. Is the point of ET for people discuss KC's music or KC's members? Why not have seperate ET's for the two? Then the wannabe psyco-analysts could vent their "insights" into RF and the fans of the music could discuss the music. Just a thought. In response to RF's five questions, here's a concise (ha ha) reply: Concerning the nature of the relationship between audient/fan and musician, it is my belief that a relationship can only exist when someone allows it to. An audient fan can assume he (unisexual term, mind) has a "relationship" with KC/RF whilst KC/RF can be indifferent. Concerning the rights of that same audient fan, there aren't any. Concerning the responsibilities of that same poor old audient fan, there is on that glares in my mind: Behave, damnit. I saw Emerson, Lake, and Palmer recently and was appalled at the behaviour/behavior of my fellow audient fans. What really got me was the drunken couple at the end of the row's overwhelming need to shout out the name of each new piece as soon as it dawned on them ("Tarkus! Fuck yeah!), as if the rest of us audient fans needed their assistance. My view was unobstructed, as the two enormous gentlemen in front of me were spaced just so. So the visual half was fine, but the aural half was stunted. It upset me because I made nary a peep, wanting to hear and be polite so others could, too. But no. The fat guy behind me just HHAAAAADDD to let everyone in the friggin' arena know that Carl Palmer would be "...bangin' them gongs any minute...". What do I expect from the artist? from Fripp? I expect nothing; I can only hope. Feeling adequately contributing, Mike Holst ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 10:08:21 -0500 (EST) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: Crimso Covers Here are a couple more to add to the list: PFM (you know, Premiata Forneria Marconi, from Italy and once on ELP's Manticore label): 21st Century Schizoid Man, Poseidon and Picture of the City All found on the newly released LIVE box set (one of the most beautiful packages I've seen) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 07:00:30 -0500 (EST) From: Jeweljcs at aol dot com Subject: Enough 'Bout His Frippness Do we consume Fripp's music because we enjoy his personal charm? Do we purchase discs because we want to ensure His bottom line? Do we attend KC concerts because we want to perhaps run into Him? I say no to all of the above. We are, all of us, trying to sort out what it means to EXIST. Music just happens to be the most direct avenue we can take to THE HEART. In particular GREAT MUSIC. Now it appears to most of the ET types that Fripp and KC have achieved GREATNESS in music. Therefore they expect something besides music from these artists. Something like PROFUNDITY. I suppose some of these fans expect Fripp to spew wisdom and truth when they meet Him. Or even to sign a cocktail napkin once in a while. The problem as I perceive it is this: EXPECTATIONS. The mere fact that a fan would approach Fripp implies expectations. Aren't the expectations inside the mind of the fan? And does Fripp or any artist deserve to meet our expectations. Maybe in an artistic sense ( which is criticism ) but certainly not on any personal level. We purchase the product. We attend the shows ( Even Fripp says that we are a part of the energy and the moment). And through the music we reach for meaning. Not through the artist. I admit the world is more beautiful with the music this man has produced, but hey, WHAT DO I KNOW!!! If we just listen we might find something, a moment, a thought, a feeling, of sublime energy. Then again maybe not. Either way I'm positive we will survive and grow with or without an autograph from HIS FRIPPNESS. So my advice to those who look towards HIM to somehow substantiate their existence is this: Listen to the music and enjoy. What more can we expect from a very good guitar player/ musician. Musically Yours, Dan Strahan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 20:48:06 +0000 From: Neil Talbott Subject: NST and the Devil's Interval (Augmented 4th) I've been trying NST tuning the last week on my guitar and found it quite intriguing as an alternative to OST - and interesting for chord placements - which aren't too bad if you've played violin or mandolin before. From a beginner's perspective NST is great for playing cowboy songs (but who likes cowboy songs?). 'So how about playing whole-tone scales?' I thought (having just got the hang of playing them on OST tuning). A bit awkward really, there has to be a better way, and *voila* there was; once I tuned the old guitar to C-F#-C-F#-C-F# : The diabolique augmented 4th so over-used in film scores! It's easy to play chords built up on 4ths and 5ths as well as standard western harmonic progressions, but awkward as hell if you're into barre chords.. anyway DIT or WTT is an interesting alternative tuning to play with on the guitar, but god knows if it'll ever catch on. However if I get to hear Debussian melodies or Promethean power chords (just listen to Scriabin to get the feeling) on any new releases, then I'll know what digest the guitarist's been reading. *---------------------------------------------------------------------- Enjoyed reading the Adrian Belew Special in ET digest #354. What's all this obsession with 'Starless', though? It's a bloody wonderful piece and a fitting epitaph for the Larks Tongues KC, but I think it would be a mistake to revive it with the double trio. What I'd really like to hear is Larks Tongues in Aspic part IV, which has yet to be written...? Back to ET #353 ... Firstly, Michael Forrest Zink : question/answer session newsletter. A good idea, but what might be better would be if we could have access to a chat room, where occasionally we might have access to exchange comments with the likes of AB or RF. I guess the problem here would be that considered questions and answers would go out the window, but the spontaneity of a chat room would be exhilarating. ...and Sergei Kantere - I've heard the Brook/Srinivas album "Dream" - it is pretty good, I was quite stunned with it the first few times, and Nigel Kennedy's contributions are quite tasty too (a whole lot better than his over-arranged, over-produced solo album om the EMI label). Finally, has any other ET reader heard the latest album "BREATHE" from Midge Ure; it's the best thing he's done for ages, with great contributions from Paddy Moloney, and the wonderful L. Shankar (Ex- Zappa, Mahavishnu, Gabriel) violinist, but best of all is Robert Fripp's soundscapes and stunning solo on 'Guns and Arrows'. regards from NST... -- Neil Talbott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:06:00 +0000 (GMT) From: dinosaur Subject: Stick part from Elephant Talk (guitar transcript) Okay. I'm not a 'proper' guitarist, but I did work out this part of Elephant Talk the other week, and I thought some of you may find it interesting. It is to be played on 6-sting guitar tuned in the 'normal' way - ie. not in New Standard Tuning! Here goes: |----------3-----3--------3-----5-----3------------ |----------1-----1--------1-----3-----1------------ |-------------------------------------------------- |-------------------0--2--------------------------- |-0-----0------------------------------------------ |-------------------------------------------------- 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & I have included some kind of indication of where the notes should be played in relation to beats in the bar. By the way, on the last chord, vibrato should be applied in that 'Tony Levin' style, so that your fingers move up and down by a whole tone (if you know the record you'll know what I mean!). Hope there are some out there that understand! Regards James. *--------------------------------------------------------* jAMES bEARD - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2511/ the university of kent @ canterbury It's only talk. *--------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:10:38 -0500 (EST) From: Otherroad at aol dot com Subject: Greg Lake in The Artist Shop Hello, Friends: Boy, things seem to be moving at a fast and furious pace with The Artist Shop these days. I can hardly put web pages together fast enough for all our incoming members! But anyway, here goes! The big news this week is that Greg Lake is now a member of The Artist Shop! You'll find him on our New Label page . Not too long ago King Biscuit Flower Hour released a live performance of Greg's that included his solo material as well as ELP material and King Crimson, too! Now Greg and his manager, Bruce Pilato, are proud to announce a very special limited edition of the King Biscuit Flower Hour CD. It has received the 20 bit remastering treatment, the booklet has been expanded and is in English and French, there are now two extra tracks previously unavailable and every CD is numbered and personally autographed by Greg Lake! This CD is not available in any store. So you better check it out here! I've also put up a couple long RealAudio soundbites including one from "21st Century Schizoid Man." Hope you'll stop by for a visit. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Neil Corkindale Subject: Boring Elephant Talk Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 11:59:16 +1000 Some comments... Fripp, I'll stop buying King Crimson bootlegs when King Crimson tour Australia and I can see you live. Until then, bootlegs are my only source of hearing King Crimson live. That has been the case since 1974! I even missed last year's European tour by four days, because I couldn't extend my UK holiday any longer because of work commitments. Sorry, but bootlegs are very important to any fan. I've had the Chesterfield and Plumpton shows for years, but have ordered the 4 CD Epitaph set to see how David Singleton has improved things. He has an excellent ear! I keep playing "Islands" more and more. Anyone else agree that it is a very underrated work? Finally, having read ET for about 2 years now, I'm concerned about how serious ET has become. Or is it that ET subscribers are very serious, and, I'm sorry to say, boring people? From reading ET you would think that King Crimson was a mystical cult requiring philosophical analysis, rather than just a rock group! By contrast, I regularly receive the ELP Digest, which is both fun and informative. The 6 degrees of separation between one subscriber's cat and KC recently was the best thing I've read in 6 months, apart from the material on the forthcoming Epitaph box set. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 12:35:33 +0000 From: grc at cybersurf dot co dot uk (Graham Crawford) Subject: Fripp string quintet on video The Picture Palace (picpal at mail dot ids dot net) lists the following as a new release (VHS video, I assume) - THE ROBERT FRIPP STRING QUINTET - Live In Japan W/ Fripp, Hideyo Moriya, Bert Lams, Paul Richards, & Trey Gunn. 11 trks: "Soundscape," "Kan-non Power," "Yamanachi Blues," more. Stereo. Available now; $19.95 Regards, Graham ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #356 ********************************