Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #355 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 355 Saturday, 1 March 1997 Today's Topics: Orchstra on a 2x4, a message from Bill T. Miller of OBE 6 degrees cloning Peter Sinfield Prospect of KC covers 'album' + suffering through compliment Fripp in ET #238 Six Degrees Of Something Bruford/collins Re: 6 degrees of separation my goodness man! your Andre Breton is sweating sweet words of broccoli 6 degrees - ENOUGH!! Another KC/Jethro Tull connection CD sale in Aspic Part IIII (IMHO) Re: Elephant Talk Digest #353 No way to read about Zappa, before I post this.. NST for tapping instruments Small World Red Nightmare Anagrams [Somewhat Vulgar] the mouse organ is satanic Re: Moles In Bath Belew and Starless Re: Smithsonian Institute Blues Re: Michael Brook Old and New Crimsons with Hackett Questions re. Giles, Giles & Fripp LP issues (GREAT ROBERTO YOU'RE MY Glob-Mob-a-Loser Belew responses RF & Matching Mole Re: Elephant Talk Digest #354 with Adrian ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:10:11 -0400 From: "Bill T. Miller - BTM" Subject: Orchstra on a 2x4, a message from Bill T. Miller of OBE >argus at gptmail dot globalpac dot com wrote: >There is a CD of music by various Chapman Stick players called "Tappistry", >and a couple of the tunes sound *very* KC influenced. The rest of the CD >is very good, especially since it's interesting to hear how other Stick >players approach the instrument after years of enjoying TL's playing and >now TG's playing. *Bill T. Miller sez.... (email me: ObeKOF at world dot std dot com) *Almost ALL Stick players are influenced a bit by TONY LEVIN=STICK as *HENDRIX=GUITAR as ELVIS=PELVIS as GILLIGAN=ISLAND as "BOB"=Slack as...! > >If anyone has this disc, am I wrong or does "Orchestra on a 2x4" sound very >inspired by recent Crimson??? *TRUTH is that OBE cut "Orchestra on a 2X4"...was recorded a while ago, before *I heard any of the "recent" Crimson. The DRUMMER Andy Deckard has a bit *of that BRUFORDish flavor and I overdubbed all the rest of the SOUNDs *with various mutatations of CHAPMAN STICK. *(THE REMIX version has a heap of sample sound FX added.) *You should hear the first OBE album from 1990 and the '94 OBE and KOF CD. *CHECK out the *OBE/Bill T. Miller - "Orchestra on a 2x4" * www page at: *YOU can connect from there to more INFO about the Tappistry Stick CD comp.... * Out of Band Experience(OBE) and KINGS OF FEEDBACK, plus some StickLinks. *Several WAV soundfiles available. >In light of recent discussion about the KC >tribute recording, "Tappistry" has a few cuts which (at least to my ears) >sound inspired by some elements of Crimson compositions, and at the very >least some of TL's playing in the band. *Casey Arrillaga's song from the Tappistry CD has a bit of Trey Gunn feel. *Greg Howard's song has a sort of Michael Hedges feel to it. *Jim Lampi, Bob Culbertson, Rick Bellinger, Don Schiff along with *a total of 15 different Chapman Stick players are featured on this CD. *I'm willing to bet that all of these players have heard tons of Tony Levin, *but each player seems to have their own style. *Check out the STICKWIRE internet mailing list, a track by track *discussion of the Tappistry CD is happening NOW. >Anyone interested in this can email kcstick at qnet dot com for details. * YES, contact Casey (kcstick) to order this CD via mail order...it is also *available from Chapman Stick Enterprises. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] WWW: "BTM ORGY" Site: http://world.std.com/~ObeKOF/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:54:26 -0600 From: John L Reeves Subject: 6 degrees "Good evening hippies...It's rumoured that there's life out there." Well, we live on a small world. For those of you who are still amused by them, here are some easy "6 degrees". In fact I thought of them while shaving this morning. 1. Crimso to Skinny Puppy (more than one way, believe it or not) 2. Crimso to Soft Machine 3. Crimso to William S. Burroughs (several ways) 4. Crimso to Sara McLachlan (simple) 5. Crimso to Tom Waits (think The Black Rider) Now for some that I don't know about: 1. Crimso to Trisha Yearwood :) 2. Crimso to Ani DiFranco 3. Crimso to Django Reinhardt 4. Crimso to Mike Watt 5. Crimso to Gentle Giant 6. Crimso to Keb' Mo' This is my first post to ET. I am seventeen, and have been listening to the likes of Yes, ELP, Tull, Floyd, and Crimson since before I could walk. About six months before THRAK came out I rediscovered Red and LTIA on the way to see Pink Floyd and was hooked immediately. When I started seeing reviews of THRAK in magazines, I was amazed that I had been so lucky to start listening to them again. I have seen Crimso twice, once at the Roxy Theatre in Atlanta; and again at Starwood Amphitheatre in Nashville while on tour with H.O.R.D.E. Three days after my first Crimso concert people asked me if I had had sex recently, because I was on such a high. I wore my Discipline shirt to H.O.R.D.E., and a guy at the Greenpeace booth said I must be a smart kid. I was thrilled of course. We talked prog rock for a few minutes. There was also this freak dressed like RF dressed in the '80s. I think he was loaded on acid because he saw our shirts and started screaming. And when Crimso started in on 'Red', he ran down the isles screaming "THEY'RE PLAYING IT! THEY'RE REALLY PLAYING IT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! FRIPP RULES!" He then leaned over the fence (the fence separating sections of the seating area) and just gazed. When 'Red' was over, he ran back to the grass, and I never saw him after that. But Lenny Kravitz is really disappointing after hearing King Crimson three hours earlier. That should be an easy "6 degrees" King Crimson has had more influece on my life than anything, well, maybe not my parents. They're the ones who had me listen to them for all those years. Jason Reeves-son of John Thanks for your time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:55:57 -0800 From: spike Subject: cloning Hi there, Now that we can clone Robert, our children may have some great music in their future. But, who's going to raise the clone? Any volunteers? spike Life's a blast, let's clone. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:21:16 -0500 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Peter Sinfield Can anyone confirm whether or not the lyrics to Sinfield's Envelopes Of Yesterday are about his break up with Fripp and Crimson ? I'm not sure if I ever read this or it simply came from the product of an overactive teen age imagination. Certainly I can recall several fevered conversations and conspiracy theories about this track when it came out. The evidence cited was the musical references such as the use of the oboe or the pipe organ section which is particularly reminiscent of the Dance of The Puppets. Lyrical interpretation abounded. Complete bollocks or hidden revalations ? All this talk about McDonald & Giles is certainly making my mouth water for a re-release. It is available on japanese import but at very costly #18.00 +. I second the suggestion of a DGM release hopefully with any out takes or extra tracks which may be in existance. I think Voiceprint were interested in getting it onto their catalogue sometime ago. They also mentioned the possibility of a Michael Giles solo album but there's been no news of this. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:05:38 +0000 (GMT) From: dinosaur Subject: Prospect of KC covers 'album' + suffering through compliment Since subscribing to Elephant Talk, I have observed the idea of us, the ET readers, producing some form of Crimson covers album. I think that this is probably quite a good idea. Obviously, certain standards would have to be adhered to. Taking into account the fact that Robert Fripp reads this newsletter, I think that it is not entirely inappropriate to ask the question whether Mr. Fripp would mind if we did such a thing. Such an album probably contradicts several copyright laws. On the other hand, there are a couple of points to consider: a) The album would not be produced in order to make a profit (although it would need to cost a certain amount to cover the cost of its production). b) It would not be going on general sale, but just exclusively to ET readers (unless RF liked the result and thought it would be a good thing to share with the rest of KC enthusiasts!). c) The production of such an album would not decrease the sale of 'genuine' KC albums in the way that some people argue that bootlegs do. d) The idea is for it to be produced *by* the enthusiast and *for* the enthusiast. The purpose is certainly not greed- or money-related. I hope Mr. Fripp will consider the worth of such an effort and might let us know whether or not he would support us in this idea. ------ The topic of 'suffering through a few moments of sincere compliment' has been fairly well thrashed to death on ET of late, but I do have a couple of thoughts that I would like to contribute. I would like to share with you the fact that, as a fellow musician, I can truly empathise with the feelings that Robert Fripp has expressed concerning this matter. In the past, I have been performing, and someone may come up to me after the event and express their enjoyment or appreciation of the music. I find it quite difficult knowing how to deal with such compliments, and often do not know what to say, other than something along the lines of "Thanks, glad you liked it". If I consider a performer like Mr. Fripp, one could imagine how much *more* this kind of thing will happen to him than to occasional performers like myself. If you feel awkward in such a situation then having to face it many many times is not a particularly thrilling prospect. What I seem to be getting from Mr. Fripp's posts is that *just being there* at a concert and *buying the records* shows our appreciation for what he/they are doing. Despite this, he has remarked that in the right circumstances and if in the right way, he is often happy to talk to a 'fan' who approaches him. I think that maybe we do not always consider the individual performer when approaching them. Just because other artists (like Adrian Belew or Pat Mastelotto [sorry if the spelling's wrong, Pat!]) are more comfortable with being confronted by fans, we shouldn't assume that all performers are the same. Perhaps in future it might be wise to make a more careful judgement of the situation before jumping in expecting smiles and autographs. If any of us go to a Crimson concert in the future and happen to see Mr. Fripp standing by the sound desk, I hope we have learned enough to behave appropriately. I hope I have made some sense to somebody, and welcome any comments from Robert regarding either issues. Yours truly James. *--------------------------------------------------------* jAMES bEARD - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2511/ the university of kent @ canterbury Watch out for that advice now ... *--------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:32:53 -0800 From: "Scott T. Anderson" Subject: Fripp in ET #238 Pardon the lateness in this response, but I haven't been following ET much in the past few years. But I know Tony's a good guy so he'll bear with me; I hope you other readers do, as well. I could not pass up the opportunity to respond to the questions posed by Mr. Fripp. i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast / fan and the musician? There is no relationship between the audience and the musician other than THROUGH the music, thus the nature of the music defines the nature of the relationship. Different styles of music warrant different types of relationships and interactions between the performers and the listeners. In commercially-oriented pop music (to dismiss this realm first), there is little substance in the music, thus little interaction between the audience and the musician is required--the bottom line is selling tickets and as long as this financial transaction occurs, all else is superfluous. In the realm of "serious" music, not meaning solely what is usually called "classical" music, but rather refering to any genre of music where the music is treated as an art and not merely a product, a meaningful engagement between the audience and performer may take place. Due to my position and experience, I will focus on the music of the Western world. In Western classical music, the role of the performer is to express the music as accurately and with as much meaning as possible; the role of the audience is to listen intently and respectfully, and to attempt to absorb all of the nuance and quality of the performance. In jazz and rock music, there is a more give-and-take relationship between the musician and the audience. As Fripp himself says to a rather stale audience on one of the "Great Deceiver" recordings, "We respond to enthusiasm." In improvisation, the energy in the room influences the direction of the music. If there is constructive energy from the performer and the audience flowing into the music, the music will become stronger; if the energy is destructive and flowing against the music, the music will weaken. In a performance where the audience's energy plays a role in making the music, the relationship between the audience and the musician is one of cooperation--working together to make great music. ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? Since we are operating in a capitalist system where money is involved, the fan, by purchasing a ticket, acquires the right to expect the performer to make a concerted effort to make great music. iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / enthusiast / fan? No rights come without responsibilities. The audience, expecting its right to a good performance to be upheld, must also be responsible for maintaining the proper relationship with the musician, as directed by the style of the music being performed. iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists? I expect what I think any audience member should expect. I expect the performer to respect his/her relationship with the audience, and most importantly to respect the music. v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? I expect Robert Fripp to use his experience and knowledge in the world (and specifically in the world of music) to perform in harmony with his values and beliefs, and with respect and concern for the music he is making. I do not expect him to follow anyone's guidance but his own, nor do I expect him to strut around the stage in tight trousers and spew heavy metal riffs! A musician must follow his own instincts, intuition, and intellect to produce the music that is right for the particular circumstances of the performance. Thankfully, I find that in most instances, Robert Fripp does just that. And if you happen to be reading, Robert, I would just like to thank you for two of the most moving, brilliant music CDs I've heard in years: A Blessing of Tears and Radiophonics. _________________________________________________ SCOTT T. ANDERSON, Webmaster ULTIMATE INTERNET ACCESS INC. Ontario, California E-Mail: webmaster at uia dot net (OR) scott at sanderso dot org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:33:53 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Six Degrees Of Something The following 'six degrees of KC' only occurred to me last night... (1) Cosworth (my cat), who was born into the house owned by... (2) ...Malcolm Robertson, a mate of mine from Tranent, whose father is... (3) ...Frank Robertson, who used to roadie for... (4) ...ELP, Keith Emerson in particular, who used to be in a band with... (5) ...Greg Lake, who used to be in a band called... (6) King Crimson Not bad, even if I say so myself. Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland : Fax 0131-653-6124 crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk : Columnated Ruins Domino ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 22:31:57 -1000 From: LC Subject: Bruford/collins Two exelent drumers Bill Bruford and phil collins ,play in the same song "Cinema show"from genesis "seconds out"is n exelent exemple of what two drumers can do at the same time. Tony Banks and P collins during the 76 Genesis tour,got a big trouble called B bruford the man plays so good ,that sometimes the public look more to BB than other member of the genesis.I have some nice shows from that genesis tour,and i think the only drumer who could replace Pcollins are BB. Anyway in King crimson,i have to say that i prefer Bill bruford plays alone,I think the idea of two drumers are not so good in King crimson. I like pat mastelotto in fripp/sylvian material,but in KC,bring only BB. Exemple see the 81/82/84 tour (about the percussion)and see the 95/96 tour the sound are confused and lost.the idea of a double trio i have the courage to say don`t work so good in termes of percussion. LC ------------------------------ From: "Scott Bickel" Subject: Re: 6 degrees of separation Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:44:41 -0600 Say how about a possible 6 degrees of separation with Kevin Bacon. Any takers? I hear that Mr. Fripp is a fan of Steve Seagel movies. Wonder what he thinks of his music. Just curious Robert. Scott Bickel E-mail: Scottb at fcconline dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 17:16:57 -0800 From: Pat von zur Muehlen Subject: my goodness man! your Andre Breton is sweating sweet words of broccoli I. please no novelty or gag songs- cover tunes: how about doing cover tunes of good songs and demonstrate what many jazz performers already have, which is that any tune or melody can be played cool, it's all in how you play it(Mac the Knife comes to mind). II. Tribute album: no band is more fitting. my contribution: I am a painter, i offer a free artwork for the cover or what ever, pending who evers approval, actually I make the same offer to king crimson themselves, cut costs, why pay an artist (the self-serving aspects of this offer are duly noted, but what the hey. or heck use some of Adrian Belew's kid's artwork for your albums, it's the music. III. a short list of really cool stuff. Tom Waits, Lambert-Hendricks and Ross, Sun Ra, the Quay brothers, The Secret Adventures of Tom Thumb, the Last Poets, Wings of Desire, Flecktones, Morphine, Jan Svankmeyer(<-spelled wrong), Wean, Nurse with Wound, Negative Land, Ella, Coltrain, you know all that stuff. ------------------------------ From: David Maclennan Subject: 6 degrees - ENOUGH!! Date: 28 Feb 1997 13:23:11 +1200 Isn't it time this six degrees thread got consigned to the "verboten topics" list? It's starting to bore me silly, and now it seems to have spread to the Hammill list too. A question: Does/will DGM (USA) have an e-mail address for orders? I noted in the info Robert posted recently that it only had a snail-mail address and fax/phone nos. David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 19:53:53 -0500 (EST) From: ron at inforamp dot net (Ron Schroeder) Subject: Another KC/Jethro Tull connection Don't know how this one escaped me, or if it has been mentioned, but here it is: 1) Eddie Jobson played with Tull during the "A" years. 2) Jobson played with Bruford in U.K. 3) Bruford plays with King Crimson ... I think. Mike C. Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 21:32:54 -0800 From: stephen arthur Subject: CD sale in Aspic Part IIII (IMHO) Hello ETers, I am still trying to unload the least listened to part of my CD collection. I would like to sell them as one group. Think of it like when we were kids and would by lots of 1000 baseball cards from Topps for cheap. Robert Fripp: The League of Crafty Guitarists Live! 1999, Soundscapes - Live in Argentina The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles, and Fripp The First Day (Fripp/Syvian) Self critique, they are OK. But 'Fripp is a drip' The First Day is kind of cheesy... Bill Bruford: Earthwork's, Live I think we should start raggin' on this guy, and give Belew his credit. By the way Tony Williams just died, and I was supposed to see him in concert next week. He will be missed. Brian Ferry Interview (he speaks too cool!) Roxy Music video (he looks sexy too!) Phil Manzanera: Primitive Guitars Guitarissmo Totally over-rated rock guitar player. Some of his playing with Roxy is cool though. If you want to check out a really hip guitar player without the attitude of some 'rock stars' we know, check out Sonny Sharrock's "Ask the Ages" CD **** (IMHO) Actually, when I saw Allan Holdsworth play last nite, in the Cat Club, he said to me "Steve, I am not going to be in any U.K. re-union". This guy has a lot of class. I told him that, "it is musicians like him that make me want to force my kids to learn how to play music." He signed my U.K. Cd and reached out to shake my hand! I think U.K. brought him much more pain than pleasure... Robert Wyatt/Matching Mole: Ruth is Stranger Than Richard Compilation Rock Bottom Matching Mole's Little Red Record Matching Mole The Best of Kevin Ayers June 1, 1974 Kevin Ayers/John Cale/Eno/Nico Cantaberry + Fripp, Eno, Manzanera make their cameos. Robert Wyatt is a genius. To bad for all of us he hurt himself. If you don't go for these check out Soft Machine's "Third". As good or equal to anything Crimson except "Larks Tongues in Aspic" (IMHO). Frith & Kaiser: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Friends Kaiser was mentioned as taking "Jerry's" place with The Dead. I think that is about 16 CDs and 1 video, starting asking price $110. (I hope this is legal, because I am not intentionally breaking 'the law') To the woman who reccomended the Don Cherry CD, could you post me again about your fav' steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 02:05:20 -0500 From: Tom Lewis Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #353 >Date: 24 Feb 97 02:00:54 EST >From: "Stephen M. Tilson" <71160 dot 307 at CompuServe dot COM> >Subject: NST info? / PossProd :( > >Hello folks, > >I'm looking for information about New Standard Tuning. Permit me, please, >a few questions. > >1) Does RF use this exclusively? If not, perhaps you could name a few of the >recordings where he does use it? Any recording past and including the first League of Crafty Guitarists recording. > >2) Is there extant any technical information in publication such as written >exercises, chord charts, or performance tablature for NST? While there probably is, I would say, hopefull not. >3) Any team members using this to good effect? I personally know of some hundred odd players who are using this, some with success, others with frustration. >I set a guitar up in this tuning , and have been having fun with it. >But I'd rather not re-invent the wheel, so if some of this technical >groundwork has already been laid please let me know where I might find it. One aim of NST is to insure that you do invent the wheel, and that you do it with a new technique. If you are intersted keep your ears open for NST classes and guitar circle meetings. >Many thanks! > >Best regards, >Stephen M. Tilson > >P.S. I am truly saddened that we're losing Mark Perry and Possible >Productions. I found him (them) most helpful and affable. It is a great >loss. Let's hope that DGM (USA) can maintain such a high standard of >service. Michael Tedesco will undoubtedly do a fine job. Best Wishes, Tom Lewis Athens, GA ------------------------------ From: "Filipp E. Kistenev" Subject: No way to read about Zappa, before I post this.. Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 02:23:12 -0500 (EST) Fripp, Belew, Zapppa.. Zappa, fffrrriiippp, bbbeeellleeewww, szaappa, bele,-w, frippp Gentle people, fragile. like most of us, prefer the argument in this medium. I think, we have to stop the discussion of these sorts: "who's the man who first suggested to play within 4/4.." - fil fiLipp, that is. ------------------------------ Subject: NST for tapping instruments Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 15:18:42 -0500 From: Markus -- [ From: Markus * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- dear friends! since there's been a lot of interest in the New Standard Tuning recently, i feel the neccessity to let you know about my 'tunings' www-page which is about variations of the NST for 8, 10 and 12-stringed tapping instruments. i also put the possible gauges on there. please have a look at: http: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/tunings.htm please send me feedback!!!!! i am also planning adding a page which lists the tappers using NST and all fifths tunings. if you're one of them and i don't know you already, please let me know! thank you!!!!! cheers! -- Markus Reuter ========================TSG-8-Warr Guitar==== Dammwiese 7, 33613 Bielefeld, Germany, Tel. 0521/896248==== email: mreuter at post dot uni-bielefeld dot de ====================== http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/markus.htm =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:17:03 -0500 From: lisaw at weightman dot com (L. Wetherby) Subject: Small World My ol' thrakker (hi honey!) asked me to post this four degrees of KC: B-52s that he came up with recently while watching the "Love Shack" video. Sara Lee (bass): Cosmic Thing (appears in tub on video) & Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx/ League of Gentlemen... 'nuff said. Also, the subtitle to this newsletter has never been more accurate. A newsletter for Robert Fripp... INDEED! 'ta. Lisa. There's no such thing as gravity. The earth sucks. (Elliot's cap) Lisa Wetherby * The Weightman Group (215) 977-1820 (direct) * 100 Penn Square East (215) 977-1850 (fax) * Philadelphia, PA 19107 lisaw at weightman dot com The Weightman Group/Public Relations Team ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 11:25:33 -0500 (EST) From: CWA Subject: Red Nightmare Dear Team, I found it! I just started reading Adrians responses to ET readers, when inspiration struck. On the second question, Adrian discusses his fear of flying. Then, on the third question, he responds to a querry about brining back "old" material. It's perfect! Bring back "One More Red Nightmare"...an incredible song, one that (as far as I know, due to the dissolution of the band shortly after its composition) has never been done live, and is all about...you guessed it, a fear of airplanes! "Another red nightmare, 10,000 feet fun fair..." Plus, imagine this song done by the double trio! Well, Robert and Adrian, I hope you are both reading this. I think its a cool idea. What do other people think? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 09:12:33 EST From: c62op27 at ibx dot com (Victor Fiorillo) Subject: Anagrams [Somewhat Vulgar] Some humorous anagrams for KC song titles: Larks Tongues In Aspic [I hope I'm spelling all of this correctly, or the anagram is pointless] Sparkling sane coitus Out classier spanking Nauseating prick loss Skin arses copulating As slick pong urinates Saucier slot spanking Thela Hun Ginjeet Hate in the jungle Jut the genial hen Eh! Jingle the tuna! The jug 'n' the alien 'Uh! Genital hen jet. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:19:31 -0800 From: Pat von zur Muehlen Subject: the mouse organ is satanic Adrian Belew wrote: "Ever since I first joined the band in 1981 I have always written the lyrics. The idea being that since I was the singer I should sing my own words. Since the 80s band had an entirely new musical vocabulary I felt it was inappropriate to continue in the medieval stylizations so favored by the 70s bands, even though it worked perfectly for those bands. I tried things like spontaneous prose (fashioned after the beat writers), wordplay, and metaphor. A few lyrics were personalized but I found them almost embarassing in the context of what was considered "art rock". At the time I did feel a responsibility to "speak" for the band. Fast forward to the 90s version and I don't feel as compelled to draw a line between personal and other lyrics. Why? Because I have realized no one cares about the words but me. I don't mean that to sound like a bad thing. It's not. But the band never really comments one way or another so I figure I'm doing it for myself. I spend more time on the lyrics than anything else and it's hard work, but it matters to me so I do what I can." Thats very good you see because though the band may not care about the lyrics or, perhaps is so confidant in you that they need not comment, i for one think your lyrics are great. I first heard Discipline in 1985. I knew 'Court' and 'Wake' at that time and i didn't realize right away that Discipline was Crimson nor who you were though i had listened to you with the Heads, Laure Anderson, on Shiek Yarbooty,and later i saw Baby Snakes without making the connection. I don't remember when your name first stuck in my mind and i realized who you were but now I will never forget you. As far as the difference between 70's Crimson and Adrian Crimson: what counts the most, I think, is the sincerity of the material all other changes are superficial. what i would like to know is how do you as a band achive the sameness of sound on each album. for example, Discipline, Beat and ToaPP each has its own sound different from each other. In the 70's material this affect is even more pronounced. in fact it sounds to me like every Crimson album has certain musical themes which are repeated,variated, extrapolated, and rearranged through the whole of the record. In the 70's stuff the theme or concept in the lyrics also running through the album. what if you guys could buy and all live near a theatre and studio and play live in one place all the time in stead of going on the road. though where to do this would be a problem- i suggest St.Louis because- well, because its where i live. anyway, you guys are the stuff, the Jimi Hendrix, The Miles Davis. The Belew sound diversity fills in nicely for strings and things, and lastly the mouse organ is satanic, King crimson is lustrous, beautiful, melancholy, ass-kicking rock. thanks for the wonderful music sincerly, peter vzm. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:06:11 -0800 From: Jason Bell Subject: Re: Moles In Bath > I went down to my local live music venue 'Moles Club' in Bath, England > recently and noticed that on their list of famous bands that have played > there was King Crimson. Matt, Cast your mind back to May 1st 1981, KC played at Moles under the name 'Discipline'. For more information try looking in the Frame by Frame scrapbook, the whole 1981-1984 period is covered. It's a cracking read. -- Jason Bell EMAIL : xdr44 at dial dot pipex dot com HTTP : http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/xdr44 Chapman Stick Player + A Member Of The HTML Writers Guild. ------------------------------ From: hha1 at cornell dot edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:33:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Belew and Starless Hi folks! A though just occurred to me when I read Adrian Belew's comment "I'm starting to wish I had written the words to Starless" (or something close to that). If Fripp and the rest of the band decide to do Starless again (and yes, I'm in the realm of dreams and not probabilities here), Mr. Belew could simply write new words himself, and perhaps then be more comfortable performing it. The music will need some substantial rearranging for the double trio, so why not modify the lyrics as well. While the existing Starless lyrics are among my favorites, I wouldn't mind hearing new verses (and in general, I like Adrian's lyrics)- besides, some of the lyrics on the live versions on The Great Deceiver are different from the later studio version on Red. Also, we well know that Fripp is quite open to reworkings of songs in some way or another. So why not let the current band rewrite the song? I'd love to hear what they come up with. Henry Andrews hha1 at cornell dot edu http://falcon.arts.cornell.edu/~handrews/ BTW, in general, I am against pressuring bands to "do what the fans want", but since it had already come up and I hadn't seen this idea before, I posted anyway. :) HHA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 16:25:56 EST From: "Geoff Chester" Subject: Re: Smithsonian Institute Blues In ET #353 Michael Forrest Zink wrote: >Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:02:09 -0600 (CST) >From: Michael Forrest Zink >Subject: Singing The Smithsonian Institute Blues... > >(Okay, I know that subject header has nothing to do with KC, but >the song's bouncing around in my head so...) What "song" is this?? BTW, for the record, it's the "Smithsonian Institution" :-) You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it sure helps...it ain't called an "institution" fer nothing.... Cheers, Geoff (Crimsophile since 1969) +==================================================================+ | Geoff Chester geoff dot chester at nasm dot si dot edu gcheste at ibm dot net | | Albert Einstein Planetarium National Air & Space Museum | +==================================================================+ | "Every passing hour brings the Solar System forty-three thousand | | miles closer to Globular Cluster M13 in Hercules--and still | | there are some misfits who insist that there is no such | | thing as progress" | | --Ransom K. Fern | +==================================================================+ | http://www.nasm.edu/GALLERIES/gal201.html | +==================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:17:05 +0100 From: rolit at mbox dot vol dot it (Rolando Michelazzi) Subject: Re: Michael Brook On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:25:52 -0500 (EST), Sergei Kantere wrote: >BTW, Michael Brook has a new CD out, called "Albino Alligator", featuring >Stipe (who's that?) and Flea. One webshop listing says it's a soundtrack. >Has anyone bought it yet / has any info? I haven't listened to it (I've ordered it two days ago) but I've recorded a message from danu at net1comm dot com (Steve Danuser) to the Sylvian list: "I picked up the 'Albino Alligator' soundtrack, which came out on Tuesday, and I highly recommend it. Michael Brook is in fine form here, and turns out an excellent piece of work. It stands up well as an album, which most soundtracks don't do for me. The duet between Jimmy Scott and Michael Stipe works pretty well, though I think the track would have been better with just Scott's vocals (lump me into the JS fan club). Thankfully, Flea's bass playing is very subdued, and sounds nothing like his usual work." >Also, could anyone spare few more >words on Brook's collaboration with Nooten "Sleeps with the Fishes"? Great album of fading beauty. I hightly recommend it. It's very different from "Cobalt Blue", as all compositions are by Peter Nooten (ex Clan of Xymox). MB plays infinite guitars, keyboards and buzz bass. He also produced and engineered the album. PN plays keyboards and sings. There are electronic sounds mixed with classical instruments. Obligatory Krimson content: an oboe passage (track 4 time 4:30) recalls to mind Robin Miller on "Islands". Ciao. Rolando. ------------------------------ From: marco dot passarello at sottovoce dot it (Marco Passarello) Date: 28 Feb 97 11:31:00 -0100 Subject: Old and New Crimsons with Hackett Organization: PeacePoint BBS +39-2-344074 Hi to all ETers! Maybe this is old news for you (I subscribed ET only some weeks ago), but I have some news about many members and ex-members of King Crimson playing with Steve Hackett, guitarist and ex-member of Genesis: 1) Last year Hackett published in Japan the CD "Genesis Revisited", a collection of old Genesis song re-recorded with different arrangements. Bill Bruford, Tony Levin and John Wetton appear in many tracks. 2) The international edition of "Genesis Revisited" is due this year. There are rumours that it should contain a bonus track, "Los Endos", featuring Ian McDonald. 3) In December Hackett made a brief tour in Japan. The members of the band were: Steve Hackett (guitar, vocals), Julian Colbeck (keyboards), Chester Thompson (drums), John Wetton (bass, guitar, vocals), Ian McDonald (winds, keyboards, guitar). The tour has been recorded, and rumours say that a live CD could soon be released. "I Talk to the Wind" and "In the Court of the Crimson King" were in the program. 4) Hackett declared that he's considering working with Wetton and McDonald in a future studio recording. Bye! Marco Passarello --- Blue Wave/RA v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:49:13 EST From: ping Subject: Questions re. Giles, Giles & Fripp LP issues (GREAT ROBERTO YOU'RE MY Hoi Ya'll ! I have questions re. LP issues of The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp. (Robert F. you may be the only one to know these answers?) background: I bought this LP back then in the US ; I just got the Deram CD 820 965-2 According to the CD's dialouge : "TCIOGG&F was to be delivered to the UK record dealers as either DML (Mono) or SML (Stereo) 1022, American Deram responding with an identical package in aurally-divided splendour only wearing catalouge reference DES 18019. [snip] no documentary proof remains to confirm or deny the rumor, total sales in this country (UK) were supposedly restricted to some six-hundred copies. Completists may be interested to know that a straight re-issue was planned in the "World Of" series as SPA 423, in 1975, and finished copies manufactured, but the project was aborted before general dispatch." So my questions now are: - How many of each LP catalog number above were really issued ? - Is this info in error in any way, especially the part about SPA 423 ? __________________________________________________________________________ Epilouge You see I was purchasing/listening to McDonald & Giles, King Crimson, G,G & F and similar stuff like Bonzo Dog Band & Roger Ruskin Spear back in the late 60's & 70's....and (being from Ky. USA) ordered "Cheerful Insanity" as an import back then. I received the SPA 423 LP. If what the above says is true...do I really have the only copy in existence of SPA 423 ?? thank you in advance great ET'ers and of course you too Great Roberto I'm outa here -=john=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:06:59 -0800 (PST) From: J Young Subject: Glob-Mob-a-Loser I'm lucky enough to be attending the unfortunately named Seattle Guitar Circle event this thurs. With an event of this magnitude, I usually prepare by pruning away the weak brain cells, so that they do not interfere with the functioning of the healthy ones. Before the Glo-Mop-a-Looza, I will be doing this at the Comet Tavern, which is a block away from the performance hall. If anyone else shares my philosophy regarding mental preparation for the concert and wishes to join me, email me and we can wax frippertonic before the show. Other miscellany: Wow. Belew likes Soul Coughing! They have been one of my favorite bands since I stumbled upon "screenwriter's blues" on the radio. I have a funny mental image of Frippy and Ade taking part in the call and response of "You get the ankles and I'll get the wrists" part of "Down to this." Folks on this list might also enjoy the band Built to Spill. They are from Boise and have an ever changing lineup centered around guitarist and vocalist Doug Martsch, formerly of Treepeople. Their latest album _Perfect From Now On_ is a masterpiece. The songs have long instrumental breaks, and Doug is a burning guitarist. _Perfect . . ._ is their first album on a major label (Warner) so it should be easy to find. They have four previous releases on indie labels from seattle, which may be hard to find but are worth it. They will probably tour, too (they have April dates in Seattle) so watch for them. End of plug. shamus ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ~^ Shamus Young | Come Visit! ^~ ~^ machismo at u dot washington dot edu | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~machismo ^~ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ~^ "She was desperate and she was choosy at the same time and, in a ^~ ~^ way, beautiful, but she didn't have quite enough going for her to ^~ ~^ become what she imagined herself to be." ^~ ~^ -Charles Bukowski ^~ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^^~^~~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 05:44:50 -0500 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Belew responses Can I just say how good it was reading the first special issue of AB's response to the many questions fans have sent in. It constantly amazes me how much access we have to the band. In addition to AB's Q&A, we've had RF's recent interjections and if that wasn't enough we have the Epitaph playback in London next month. I've been into Crimson since 1972 and cannot recall a better time. Well done ET. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 06:24:00 -0500 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: RF & Matching Mole I thought Eters might be interested in this response from bassist Bill McCormick on the What's Rattlin' digest. In ET336 I posted the following; In Wrong Movements (the excellent hisory of Robert Wyatt by Mike King) Bassist Bill MacCormack remembers the Fripp produced sessions for Matching Moles Little Red Record. " Having Robert Fripp as the producer was an absolute disaster, if only for the reason he rduced Phil Miller ( Moles guitarist) to a quivering wreck so that he could barely move his fingers. It was a bit difficult for Phil anyway who held Fripp in some high regard. I got along with him perfectly fine but then again I didn't feel particularly threatened. There was some distinct tension and the end product being certain takes of things that we would have like to have used, which had a good feel to them, were not used because Fripp refused to allow them to be used. It got to that stage. It seemed like a good idea at the time but it turned out not to be." In ET 342 RF responded: Sid: In Wrong Movements (the excellent hisory of Robert Wyatt by Mike King) Bassist Bill MacCormack remembers the Fripp produced sessions for Matching Moles Little Red Record. " Having Robert Fripp as the producer was an absolute disaster, if only for the reason he reduced Phil Miller ( Moles guitarist) to a quivering wreck so that he could barely move his fingers"... RF: Often interviewers, writers, journalists ask me questions about the famous people I've worked for / with; e.g. biographies of Bowie and Gabriel. I decline to comment, on the grounds that these relationships while professional are also inevitably personal, and include private moments. So, although I wouldn't like to change anyone's opinion of me a towering and terrorising presence, there were other dimensions to the production of that record which even someone as near to the vinyl as Bill might not have seen. These were discussed between Robert Wyatt (a wonderful spirit) and myself at the time, and are inappropriate for discussion here. If we are going to make reasoned and reasonable judgements of an event, we have to know all the circumstances relevant to the time, place and persons. This is not the only way we arrive at or come to conclusions, knowings, or judgements: some are direct, and penetrate the nature of a situation. In Guitar Craft they are called "Points of Seeing". In the same way that when a performance gets up and flies, normal time changes or even stops, so with a point of seeing: its nature is creative, the perception is non-sequential, it is direct and takes place in a flash. These "quality knowings" or experiences become the basis for our judging or assessing the rest of our mundane lives. Yes! says Sid. Thank you, Sid. I then posted his reply onto the Canterbury related digest What's Rattlin'. In the latest edition of WR, Bill McCormack responds. From: Bill Maccormick Subject: Robert Fripp/Matching Mole Date: Sat, 22 Feb 97 11:49 GMT0 [re: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> in WR#42 :] > "Having Robert Fripp as the producer was an absolute disaster.... Such comments always look worse in print than they sound at the time, however, I've no reason to change my view about the net impact of Robert's presence in the control room on Phil Miller although, with hindsight, the phrase 'absolute disaster' is OTT. It makes it sound as though I didn't enjoy the experience which isn't true. From my perspective Phil seemed very intimidated by Robert's presence but that was just one of those things and not something anybody did as such. It's very difficult in those circumstances to have a really successful time in a recording studio when a quarter of the band seems to feel that uncomfortable. Personally, I enjoyed the sessions hugely 80% or so of the time. Having Fripp & Eno in the studio together was fascinating to watch and be part of, but the final product lacked a certain something in some areas. My view is coloured, though, by a lingering image of Phil sitting in a huge CBS studio on his own trying to play a particular piece and getting more and more frustrated because he couldn't get it quite right. I suppose if I'd had one of my bass playing heroes sitting there watching everything I did then I guess I would have been nervous too. Basically, it was just one of those things where the chemistry between everyone wasn't quite 100% all the time and where (my) expectations were very high. Another time, another place...? And whatever my recollections about our brief professional experience, I still regard Robert as one of THE players of the past 25 years with whom it was a privilege to work. Bill MacCormick So now we know. For anyone interested in Canterbury and related sounds check out the following sites: CALYX - The Canterbury Website http://www.alpes-net.fr/~bigbang/calyx.html THE ULTIMATE ONLINE CANTERBURY DISCOGRAPHY http://www.alpes-net.fr/~bigbang/cantdisco.html WHAT'S RATTLIN' ? BACK ISSUES - ONLINE ARCHIVE http://musart.co.uk/watrat/watrat.htm Send all correspondence regarding 'CALYX' and 'WHAT'S RATTLIN' ?' to : bigbang at alpes-net dot fr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 04:46:22 -0700 From: "Steven W. Sthole" Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #354 with Adrian Many thanks to Toby and Adrian for ET#354. This was one of the most enjoyable issues I can recall in a long time. Adrian's insights into the creation of sonic Crimson adventures from their rough beginnings were enlightening and entertaining. I hope all ET'ers in the Denver Colorado were/are able to attend the concert by California Guitar Trio at the Acoma Center on February 28, March 1. Trey Gunn is special guest. I didn't even know about it until the day of the concert! peace- sws at indra dot com ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #355 ********************************