Elephant Talk #350 (as text)

16 February 1997



From: Matt Walsh <MATTW at smginc dot com>
Subject: "the tribute"
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 17:47:00 PST
Hello ET and Robert,
    I have been wanting to write this letter for a little while now, but
wanted to make sure it was done right before I sent it, with Robert's
recent post on the subject, I think now is the time. I was the person who
originally instigated the idea of "the tribute". At the time I wrote it, I
had mentioned that I am too busy to be the one to do it, but now that the
thought has been through my mind for the past 2 months or so, I think that
this is a project that I am willing to take hold of, so I am offering
myself to be the main person in charge of this. I guess it is up to the ET
Team as to whether I am or not, but I will warn those that I have my
restrictions. I was pretty sure that this would not be a problem with
Robert Fripp (at least under some conditions), remember, the California
Guitar Trio plays numerous cover songs. I'll go over some of the points
that Robert has already made:

>2. (This follows several concerns expressed in ET) no copyright
permissions
>for any Crimson pieces are needed, unless the material is
>rearranged. Should there be any difficulties (with BMG Publishing) I am
>happy to personally intervene.

This is definitely heartwarming. My question is, why would a piece being
re-arranged not be permitted as to a piece that was played verbatim? My
hopes is that every piece on this "tribute" is in some way rearranged. I do
not believe in regurgitating something that has already been done. I would
be looking for artists who take a song and mold it into their own.  I would
appreciate it if Robert, or possibly someone else would let me know of any
legal complications regarding rearrangements. I would have assumed that the
more originality put into a cover song would be less of a legal issue. Then
again, maybe there is protection from someone butchering someone else's
song.

> 3. I would ask: what is the aim of making a tribute album? The obvious
> answer is, to give tribute to Crimson. That might not be the only motive
> orintention and (without implying any criticism or censure) I would ask
> for the aim to be clearly declared.

To me, the aim is twofold. The obvious (but to me not most important) is a
tribute to Crimson. My primary understanding on the aim is that we are all
here in an open forum on the internet. We talk to each other, and some of
us have even met because of Elephant Talk. Elephant Talk t-shirts have
already been made, partially to distinguish ETers from the crowd at a
Crimson show. Since this forum which we have all become acquaintances is
mainly focused on the music of King Crimson, it only seems logical that the
best way to get to know each other outside of the banter on ET is through
what brought us together in the first place. This is at least my aim, and I
hope this is clear enough.

>4. Do you play Crimson music, or new music "inspired by" or "influenced
>by", or re-arranged Crimson music or ...?

As I stated earlier... partially rearranged Crimson music.
If this project is a success, My thought for a next project (other than a
vol. 2) would be to have the members of the "tribute" submit their own
material -- You've heard how they interpret Crimson into their own style,
now here how Crimson and other bands have influenced them.

>5. There are different degrees of "tribute album". Are you aiming at a
>cassette? A CD commercially marketed with global release?

My aim in this aspect would be a cassette which is to be made available to
ET members (going outside of ET would be a "team" decision - or with
Robert's/KC's approval if needed - though I think he made it clear that we
do not). These would NOT be sold for a profit. I would expect only the cost
of covering tapes/postage/packaging. I would consider it to be a volunteer
effort by the bands that would pay for their own studio time.

>6. How do you plan to record the album? ADATs are technically feasible, but
>you get no immediate and personal interraction between the players.

I'm a little confused by this... maybe you thought each ET member would lay
a track on for one song, this was not my idea. Since many ETers are
musicians and in bands, my thought was the musicians to record the songs
with their own band and submit a DAT of the finished product. Any other
ideas/methods would be appreciated. If ET members would want to do a
project in which each ET member contributes a track, that is fine. I'll
leave this to the idea of the members - the end result is all I care
about. I can assemble all the DATs onto one master DAT and get it
professionally duplicated. I have already done this myself with my own
bands, so I know it can be reasonably inexpensive. I'm not expecting to
release a tape of superior recording quality in which every band has gone
into a top quality studio and make everyone poor. Just a good quality tape.

>7. How do you finance this?

I would probably finance my end of it out of my own pocket. Whatever money
I get from ET members for the tapes would go towards the debt. As I said, I
don't plan to make money on this, I would actually expect to lose money on
this. The amount of quality would probably be directly proportional to what
the consensus of a reasonable cost would be. What kind of quality do we
want in the J-cards.. how "professional" should it look? - these points
don't matter to me, but it is up to ET how "far" we want to go with
this. Obviously, the greater the cost to produce, the greater the tape will
cost. If it gets too expensive (people want top quality printing), I will
probably need some help on this, but I think I need to see what the
interest level is first before making such decisions.

>8. How do you organise this? Who chooses the final tracks?

Well, obviously me since I am writing this. Choosing the finals tracks
would obviously be the most difficult task in this project. I consider
myself to be an enthusiast with a very open mind. My musical tastes are
radically more diverse than most people I know. I would hope that using
this would be a basis for my being "qualified" to do this... what else
could we base it on? I am more than willing to gather anyone interested in
helping me make the final cut to do so, but since that would be an
extremely tedious task with everyone from all over the world, I would have
to limit this to anyone in the Philadelphia area (or those who would
actually want to travel to help out). Those involved in helping make the
final cut should approach with an open mind (put your musical preferences
aside and look at the work as a whole). Input from members of King Crimson
would be very welcome and encouraged, though I am sure that you would be
much too busy. I would also be sending (at least 7) copies to DGM - six for
the current KC members, one for DGM.

As I side note, I would mention that I'm in the same boat as everyone
else. I would expect quality and I would return quality. I would like to
see bands of different genres of music, showing how diverse an impact KC
has on people. I myself am in a metal band, and I would have the same
chances as "making the cut" as everyone else... my band might not even want
to be a part of this. I'm sure that many people on this list do not like
metal, but I don't want to exclude any style of music. What I am looking
for is originality (though that may seem to be an oxymoron), and many of
the other qualities that Robert has mentioned below.

>       An offer: if the "tribute album" convinces me musically, DGM will
>release it. But, it has to viscerally activate my organs of
>response. Factors: conceptual grasp, creative leaping, spirit, executant
>capacity, quality of sound. Is this local, regional, national,
>international or global quality musicianship?

Obviously, I will only be able to work with what has been given to me, but
I hope that the quality and effort put into this by members is high.  I
would not expect that this project be released by DGM, but I definitely
would not hesitate to allow so.

>        Please don't send me a turkey to be roasted.

We all have our different opinions about music and every other aspect of
life. One man's trash is another's treasure. Hopefully you will at least
acknowledge the effort. To be honest, I'm not expecting you to like it.
The aim is not to please Robert Fripp, but it would be an added bonus if
the result was that well. We can't please everyone all the time.

>       You also have to figure out who gets paid, and paid what.

No one gets paid, at least not in my mind, unless that is what's needed to
re-arrange Crimson's music. I'd be volunteering my time. I don't want to
make a profit off of this.

>        Suggestion: once you have tracks, find someone whose opinion you
>trust and who is prepared to take decisions and make choices.

Well, ET?

Now that that's all said and done. I don't want to get into the specifics
too much since I'm not even sure if I'm going to be a part of this. I will
mention however that I am going to take this project very seriously and
expect participants to do the same. Because of this, this tribute will not
be completed for a long time, as I feel artists wanting to do this
seriously will need time to work on it and go into the studio...  depending
on how quickly I get feedback, I would say July at the earliest (that is
probably way too soon)

I would expect that any comments be sent to me personally, for me to give a
report to the team after I've gotten some response. 

[ YES! Comments to Matt by personal email, NOT ET!, for now please
  -- Toby ].

PLEASE, do not start sending me "my band wants to do this song" messages. I
want to take this in steps and I want to do this right.  What I plan on
doing at this point is getting feedback from ET members and getting down
the specifics on how I want to work this. Robert, if you wish to respond to
me directly to help with the bandwidth of ET that's fine with me. After
I've completed that phase I will send a message to ET with the next
steps. I'm probably going to beat myself over the head for accepting this
project, but I like a challenge.

So, I now leave it up to the members of ET what they want to do. Have I
convinced you to be "someone whose opinion you trust and who is prepared to
take decisions and make choices". Thanks to everyone who has already showed
interest in this project. I hope it will be a good experience.  Robert has
already told us that we don't need his permission, so, let's go for it!

Matt Walsh
mattw at smginc dot com

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:46:55 -0500
From: Michael Sheehan <sheehanm at compuserve dot com>
Subject: Social glands/Eric Tamm book
>>
BH: ...in 1978, an overzealous "fan" gave me the crabs...
RF: Obviously you were born with the Social Gland.
<<

This is one of the funniest one-liners I've ever read in in ET.

Incidentally, Chicagoans interested in finding a copy of Eric Tamm's
out-of-print book on Robert Fripp would be well-advised to go to the main
Chicago Public Library branch, where they have a copy I have only recently
returned. Come to think of it, even those uninterested in the book should
go to the library juts because it's good for you.

Cheers,
Mike Sheehan

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:19:43 -0600
From: ManFromSea <dasg at startext dot net>
Organization: Sylvan
Subject: Good Afternoon
Good Morning Team,
I am ManFromSea,
I dare not reveal,
My true identity.

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exchanging half-smiles with the shadows,
Blinded eagles sit waiting to die,
While circus clowns play chase in the mountains,
Under a hurricane eye,
You stand with your fists before me,
The hate of all war inside,
And I laugh,
And root myself to the ground,
As a tree.

*------------------------------------------------------------------------

King Crimson, Royal Blood, please put music to my words.

Good Evening Team,
I am ManFromSea,
You may kneel and worship me.

From: "Heilbronner, Michael" <MHeilbronner at kilstock dot com>
Subject: Crimson Covers
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:33:00 -0500
I would like to compile a list of bands that have covered King Crimson
songs.

I recently learned of two.  Please email me privately about others you are
aware of.  If the response is good, I'll post the compiled list to ET.

1.  Either/Orchestra's "Half Life of Desire" contains an excellent cover of
"Red."  E/O is a modern (chronologically and stylistically) "big band" jazz
group.  Their music is sold on the Accurate Records label.  Accurate's
website is http://www.tiac.net/users/accurate.  The Accurate Website quotes
several critics commenting on Half Life of Desire:

	"A hallucinatory fantasy." Neil Tesser, Playboy Magazine
	 "Hellbent on both genre-bender hijinx and genuine sonic lustre..."
Josef Woodard, Musician Magazine
	 "The hard-swinging but rhythmically elastic 11-piece lineup makes
mincemeat out of your expectations." Gene Santoro, Pulse

	E/O's version of Red starts out very smooth and tame, but, like
many Crimson songs, evolves into something complex, extremely interesting
and dissonant.  The arrangement is relatively horn intensive, although it
was arranged by John Dirac, E/O's guitar player at the time.

2. The second Crimson cover (or Fripp cover) I recently learned about is by
Phish.  The massive compendium of setlists contained in www.phish.net
contains listings for "Crimson Jam" (see sets for 3/23/87 and 4/24/87).  I
consulted Ellis Goddard, who has worked on the phish.net setlists and FAQ,
about Crimson Jam.  Here's my question to him and his response:

>>Do you know anything about the tune listed as "Crimson Jam"
>>(played only on 3/23/87 and 4/24/87), specifically whether it has
>>anything to do with King Crimson?

>if it's what i think you're talking about,
>its based on some Fripp playing, but isnt a KC song.
>it's called Dave's Energyguide.
>dave abrahams (as in "Looks too much like Dave" in McGrupp) wrote the
>original part, and Trey built on it.
>they've teased/played it a few times recently (eg end of set II on 12-31-95)

	I haven't heard "Crimson Jam," so I don't know whether
Mr. Goddard's comments are accurate.  I am attempting to acquire copies of
any of the sets listed above to hear exactly what Phish plays.  I've read
articles in which Trey Anastasio (Phish's guitarist) states that Crimson is
one of the band's influences, but I've never heard them play anything
Crimson-specific.

Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:14:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Throatspro at aol dot com
Subject: Artist/Audience
The flurry of recent posts in response to Robert Fripp's questionaire
certainly support his statement that he attracts "intense" fans.

In my own response to Robert's questions, I said that the nature of the
artist/audience relationship was "mutual confirmation." By this, I meant
that music confirms for its listeners that someone else feels the same
things we do, just as we confirm the music by surrendering ourselves as it
takes us into territories strange, bewildering and revelatory. The
distortions of this interior, spiritual relationship tend to occur when the
music is made corporeal--in live concert situations.

We go to hear the music performed live, but also to be in the presence of
the musicians. The holders of the magic. As we dress for the evening, there
is always the expectation in the back of our minds that some personal
encounter or some other happy accident might take place. It is in these
hoped-for situations that audience members wish to assert themselves in the
presence of musicians; not to say "Thank you," which is indeed meaningless,
but rather to have an exchange with the source of the music that will
confirm their own existence and participation in the relationship. We fail
to appreciate that, from the musicians' points of view, our thanks have
already been expressed by our attendance and support of the event. The
concert would be Helen Keller's proverbial falling tree without us. There
are other ways an audience can make their thanks known to a band--with a
standing ovation, or in the case of KC, by holding our applause during the
silences in "Dinosaur."

Perhaps the awkwardness of artist/audience encounters might fade away over
time if music could somehow be performed live, and safely, without the
artist/audience divided by the stage proscenium. As I say, perhaps. But I
do know that mysterious presentation and aloofness only exacerbate the
desire of the audience to break through, to know and be known.

From: argus at gptmail dot globalpac dot com (argus)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:07:16 +0000
Subject: Let's ask Bill
>KROSSER414 wrote:
<<clip>>
>Since RF has acknowledged that he may comment upon some questions
>raised in ET, I'd like to offer these (and certainly open them up for
>general discussion):

>1)  The longest-running personnel association in KC has been between
>RF and Bill Bruford (about a quarter century now, right?).  While on
>the personal level much of this is obviously private (and as you say,
>should remain so), could you characterize in a general sense what
>makes this association work for you and/or KC?

>Or, ET readers could rephrase the question, "What is it about the
>Fripp/Bruford alliance that makes it so compelling?".
><<clip>>

For that matter, it would be equally as interesting to hear Bill Bruford's
take on this question.

Speaking of BB, I recently wenth through and listened to his work on Red,
One Of a Kind, Discipline, Beat, Earthworks, Music for Piano and Drums, and
finally Vroooom and B'Boom. Whew! Talk about a music lesson. . .  anyway,
it was interesting (and fun) to hear BB at various stages in his career as
a musician, especially to be able to hear how he developed rythmic and
musical ideas in, say, "Eastern Sundays" and then later in "Thrakattack".
Anyone studying improvisation should definately give all this a listen.

-Jason Rubenstein
              --- --- --- --- --- ---
              argus/Jason Rubenstein
         http://pages.ripco.com:8080/~argus
               argus at globalpac dot com
               argus at rci dot ripco dot com

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:14:58 +0000
From: Neil Talbott <neil at antescher dot demon dot co dot uk>
Subject: My first posting to ET
...music is not a belief system..(it) exalts life, enhances life, and gives
it meaning...Music is a source of reconciliation, exhilaration and hope
which never fails...Music has incomparably enriched my life. It is an
irreplacable, undeserved, transcendental blessing...

Anthony Storr - Music and The Mind - HarperCollins 1992.

Anthony Storr talks mostly of classical (so-called 'serious' music), but
really his comments can be applied to anyone who feels passionately about
music, and this must include anyone who writes to Elephant Talk.

I have been passionate about music since I was a child in the 50's when I
was introduced to Stravinsky's Firebird and the Sabre Dance, but displayed
no musical aptitude whatsoever, though how I wanted to play a triangle or
recorder in the school band. I stole my sister's guitar, learnt a few
chords, wrote a few spidery dots on music paper which eventually landed me
in a music college in london, but to this day I've never pursued a career
in music, and do you know why? I never had the sheer bloodymindedness of a
Fripp, and I was weak enough to believe all those parental myths about the
insecurity of risking a career in music.

But I love music, like I love my family, like I love all the transcendental
joys of life. I get a vicarious thrill out of live music when it works,
because I become one with the music and the musicians, the best music
exerts a magical spell (like reading a spellbinding novel) but unlike
fiction music is not an esape route to fantasy because it helps one
confront reality as much as it enriches reality.

Of course I love the music of Fripp and KC. I love Bruford's crisp concise
drumming, Belew's guitar elephantiosity and singing, and Gunn's wonderfully
wayward stick, Levin's poetic professionalism, and Maistelotto's solitidy
(the double trio is the best KC incarnation yet), but Fripp? He does my
head in! I put on his soundscapes and I'm in a vast cathedral full of
unearthly light, or on top of a hill gazing at the distant cold stars for
an eternity. Or The First Day with Sylvian and my head is pierced with
white hot wires which scramble my neural net. Or one of those beautiful
coasting solos like 'The Night Watch' and my scalp tingles and my eyes
water. Robert Fripp may be everything he says he is (which he isn't) , or
he may be everything the fans think he is (which, again, he isn't), but
hiding inside that little man is a powerful magician who astonishes,
pleases and frightens us all more than occasionally.

This is the first time I've written to this (or any other) newsletter on
the Net...much apologisings (qv Zathras - Bab5) for the elephantine style
of writing. I'll sign off with a few questions:

1) I'd love to get on a Guitar Craft course if held in the UK? How does one
apply? Are there any courses in the near future?

2) I read somewhere that the famous Alan Yentob is an avid King Crimson
fan? Has he ever written to ET? Has Robert ever met him?

3) I once heard a recording of a Frank Zappa interview, who when asked
which contemporary guitarists he liked he mentioned Allan Holdsworth, Jeff
Beck, Steve Howe, Eric Clapton (all British?) , '..and Robert Fripp?'
queried the inverviewer. 'I don't know his work', muttered Zappa
dismissively. Now can you believe that? Could Zappa never have come across
the music of King Crimson? A piece like the magnificent 'Filthy Habits'
would seem to belie that. What do other ETers think or know?  What does
Fripp think of Zappa (I wouldn't expect him to answer that one - because I
believe there's honour among musicians as much as there is among thieves)?

...'bye, and thanks for reading this far.

Neil Talbott

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 02:05:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Doug Arthur <bf332 at FreeNet dot Buffalo dot EDU>
Subject: Crimson Lifeguard....
Since someone asked for strange links to King Crimson...

Blotto (Remember the early 80's classic "I wanna be a lifeguard"?)  Buck
Dharma (of Blue Oyster cult fame played on Blotto's "Metal Head" Joe
Satriani played on BOC album Imaginos Mick Jagger employed the services of
Joe Satriani David Bowie and Mick jagger Sang together on Dancin in the
Streets (amongst other things if the tabloids are to be believed) Both
Fripp and Belew played for Bowie.

is this strange enough?

How about Wall of Voodoo?  Stan Ridgway's solo album Mosquitos employed the
back up vocal talents of Tori Amos, who's song "past the mission" features
a duet with Trent Reznor whose Nine Inch Nails album the Downward spiral
features Adrian Belew on guitar.

I could think of a few more but its quite late.

on a sillier note...

During the closing credits of the last Steven Segal flick (the Glimmer Man)
I happened to notice that our peerles leader's favorite actor was
responsible for production and songwriting credit for 3 songs on the
soundtrack.  A few weeks ago I read a smallarticle in the paper that
Mr. Segal wishes to pursue a music carreer to supplement his acting.  What
are the odds that Mr. Fripp will ditch KC and help out his matinee idol?

I can just hear Steven saying in his inimitable deadpan,"Just what exactly
are these Soundscapes?  Will they really help my singing?"

Then maybe we'll get this for release next summer at your local
multiplex:  BOB FRIPP:  Agent of C.R.I.M.S.O.N..  	(written and
directed by Steven Segal(just like On Deadly Ground!))

Buy My Books!
---Doug

_________________________________________________________________
*  I can walk like an ape/Talk like an ape/Do what monkeys do/  *
*  God made man/But the monkeys supplied the glue.              *
*-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Swan, Doug" <dswan at path-seattle-01 dot path dot org>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:28:57 -0800
Ken had stated:

2) What is it about English guitar players from the sixties?  It seems as
though that era in that particular location gave us Clapton, Beck, Page,
McLaughlin, Holdsworth, Summers, Fripp, Howe, undoubtedly a few more
obvious ones I'm forgetting, and the shadow they've cast on music in the
60's, 70's, 80's and 90's is huge.  I'm interested in what RF's perspective
on this phenomenon might be - was it something in the culture, the media,
the marketplace, what have you?  Is there a common factor other than
national that you all share?

Doug responded (and yes, I know I'm no Robert Fripp):

First of all, your statement seems to say that no modern guitarists have
had the same impact.  I suggest we wait a few decades before making that
assumption.  While it may be true in the broader sense, it certainly isn't
in a specific sense.  Let's face it, the 60s and 70s were a breeding ground
for musicians in general.  Guitarists were allowed to be as full of
themselves (and as creative) as they wished.  All of the guitarists you
mention (with the exception of Holdsworth) have enjoyed a tremendous amount
of commercial success.  They were also demigods in the eyes of the public
(you too Robert).  The public simply lapped it up.  It was a new age, a
time when there was a degree of artist freedom that was fostered by a
modicum of commericial success.  It was also a time when there was a whole
world of concepts and ideas to explore.  So little ground had been covered
up to that point.  Electronics played a huge role in that, but so did the
convergence (and acceptance) of a wide range of musical idioms.  No artist
today enjoys that degree of artistic fertility, nor are they likely to ever
again.  You can only "invent" it once.  Everything that follows is merely a
progression.

Todays musicians in some ways live in a much more confined atmosphere, in
that while there are more ways to present your music to the public cheaply,
it is also a much more competitive market.  Much more of our music is
"niche" marketed.  You are either this or that, but you simply cannot be
anywhere inbetween

The bottom line to me is that all of the guitarists you have mentioned (by
the way, in looking at the particular list, it IS pretty mind-boggling)
have had the benefit of many years and a highly fertile climate in which to
hone their talent and develop their "style."  Give today's guitarists the
same amount of time and I think we'll see that every era produces
geniuses--the problem is not that they don't exist, but that we are not
providing a forum for their emergence.

dswan at path dot org

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:46:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com
Subject: Re: Metrical Structure of "Breathless"
Hi team--

Our last exciting episode included the following exchange:

Marc Roemer:
>I've read in various places a quote of Robert saying the
>"Breathless" middle section is in 3/3. [snip]  I counted it
>as a repeating pattern of four measures: 11/8, 11/8, 11/8, 3/8.

Robert Fripp:
>The signature is 13 + 13 + 13 + 3 over 8.

This very disturbing.  Marc is correct and Robert is in error.  As I
pointed out in my previous posting, Robert himself described the 33 + 3
cycle to Vic Gabarini in Musician back in 1979, when the piece was
obviously fresher in his mind.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew     @}-`--}----
...visit me at http://users.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html
"One two three, two two three..."

From: vince <vince at io dot com>
Subject: Another take on artist's "responsibility"
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:26:39 -0600 (CST)
I saw the following article posted on the Tull mailing list. Ian Anderson
touches upon some of the things that we've been discussing lately. I wonder
if Anderson reads ET?

vince

*-----------------------------------
Tull's Ian Anderson is a Fans' Fan
Front man for the enduring and endearing band, which is coming to Irvine,
actually answers mail
by John Roos
Special to the Times

        Jethro Tull leader Ian Anderson is one rock 'n' roll star who
acknowledges his fans in a most tangible way.  The affable
singer-songwriter-flutist makes no bones about his indebtedness to fans
during the band's 28-year career, and he's determined to reciprocate their
loyalty.
        "Touring is the only real way to gain fan loyalty," a chatty
Anderson said by phone from St. Louis, a recent stop on a summer tour also
comes to Irvine Meadows on Saturday.  "I wouldn't say I answer every piece
of fan mail I get, but I do try to write a couple of lines to a lot of our
fans."
        "That [responsibility] comes with success.  If you go out there and
reach out to people's hearts and minds with your music, and someone takes
the time to acknowledge you, it's certainly not asking too much to
acknowledge them back.
        "I spend one day a week doing my mail," he continued.  "I imagine
there are some folks out there who are surprised to receive and autograph
or a couple of lines from me.  They've earned that by supporting us.
They've probably bought 10 of our albums and spent hundreds of dollars on
concert tickets over the years."

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:51:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Marc Roemer <mir1 at troi dot cc dot rochester dot edu>
Subject: peace: a sign
Did anyone else ever notice Daryl Hall's right hand on the cover of _Sacred
Songs_ is positioned very similarly to the Crimson King's right hand on the
inside of the ITCOTCK cover? A New Testament scholar of my acquaintance
told me it's a Christian sign of peace.

An easy Tom Jones/KC connection: "If I Only Knew" was produced by Trevor
Horn, who played with Geoff Downes in the Buggles and Yes, who played with
Wetton in Asia. And actually, I like the Buggles ("Lenny" is DaVinci,
right?), and the Tom Jones song.

For what it's worth, I would like to request an _official_ (nice work,
Toby, erasing the address of the would-be cybervendor) bootleg of
_Pleasures in Pieces_. The original Frippertronics albums are among my
favorite Frippworks. They're simple, and easy to follow (at least as easy
as it is to pay attention generally). They were my first experience with a
different kind of listening: careful, patient, undemanding, yet ready; my
maiden voyage into a sonic world of moment-by-moment emergence, growth, and
surprises fading away, a kaleidescope of consciousness, a mirror of inner
events. Every note is a gift.

Marc Roemer

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:01:58 +0100
From: rolit at mbox dot vol dot it (Rolando Michelazzi)
Subject: McDonald & Giles / Under The Sky / King Crimson name
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 (ET #343), Carl Didur wrote:

>Subject: McDonald and Giles
>
>        I have the 1971(?) release  "McDonald and Giles", by Ian Mcdonald,
>Mike Giles and Peter Giles.  I don't have the original pakaging for this
>recording and would appreciate it if someone could tell me who sings lead
>vocals.

The sleeve notes credit vocals to both Ian McDonald and Mike Giles.  IMO,
"Tomorrow People" is sung by Mike and the other ones by Ian.

I also have a pair of historical curiosities:

1st curiosity: the song "Under the sky" firstly appeared in 1973 in Peter
Sinfield's album "Still" with songwriting credited to McDonald & Sinfield;
the same song was included, as bonus track, in the 1992 UK re-issue of "The
Cheerful Insanity of GG&F", but the booklet reports "composed by Fripp". I
think the GG&F sleeve notes are wrong because: - the song itself isn't in
the Fripp-style; - accordingly to the notes by John Tracy (in the same GG&F
CD booklet), the trio was joined Ian McDonald on 7th June 1968 and by Pete
Sinfield in July, while "Under The Sky was recorded over the 28th and 29th
of october, so they can have actually wrote the song.

2nd: curiosity: Where did the name King Crimson come from?  ET FAQ says
"Crimson's original lyricist, Peter Sinfield, invented it as a synonym for
Beelzebub"; other sources reports it derives from the song "In the court of
Crimson King".  OK, but what has ispired Pete to use that name?  I have a
supposition: there is a species of tree called "acer platanoides crimson
king" because of the colour and the shape of the leaves (similar to a
crown); maybe Pete was ispired by this name while writing the song?

We are honoured by the presence of the "Great Bob". Perhaps he remembers...
(Hello Robert, I'm your admirer since 1971, I've attended six times to your
live performaces, but I've never tried to approach you personally, because
I think that also a public performer has the right of his privacy).

Bye.
Rolando.

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:56:19 -0600
From: Brian Hill <brian dot hill at decisionone dot com>
Organization: DecisionOne
Subject: The nature of fame and the fan
[BH delurking...]

Hello all,

I don't pretend to understand why it is that so many "fans" seem to need to
get a "piece" of the object of their fanaticism. I, for one, have been
guilty -- to a degree.  I have lusted after hats and t-shirts and the
occasional autographed disc.

In the performance context, why is it not enough that the musician performs
the music? If the performance is sublime and touches the audience, is the
performer not also touched?  Need there be any other communication? What
else does the fan hope to gain or to impart by engaging the performer
outside of the performance context? Does the performer need any
encouragement beyond patronage and applause?

If I understand RF's position rightly, when an encounter occurs
at the wrong time and place (outside of the context of the performance?)
and between the wrong people (insincere or misdirected motive?), the
"admirer" has everything to gain from the notice and attention of the
object of admiration. The "admired" has everything to lose in giving
same and "suffers".

The admired will not gain from answering tiresome questions or chatting
about the weather. The knowledge of how he or she has changed your personal
life may not be all that useful to them. It is unlikely that a positive
dialog can result when in the wrong context.

The admirer has preconceived notions and expectations of what will occur --
perhaps in a fantasy realm -- the admired will jump with glee at being
recognized, will gush forth witticisms and will generally be your pal. Not
bloody likely.

When this doesn't happen, the anxious and expectant admirer is
"spurned". The admirer portrays the encounter as if the admired had yelled
"Bad Dog!" at a cute puppy with bright eyes and a wagging tail. Frankly,
there are times this needs to be done, lest one get soiled with puppy
slobber (or worse).

In my personal life there have been a few opportunities where I could have
approached a "famous personage" -- including RF -- in public. I never had
the desire to do so.

Yet, I believe that there can be positive dialog between admirer and
admired - or really - just between two people in a personal way. Maybe some
insight into being an artist or being a fan or being a "being" can be had.

I have availed myself of arranged opportunities for such contact - for
example, author's book signing tours, and RF's early Frippertronics solo
tours in small and cozy venues.  These have often been satisfying, intimate
and sometimes personal. I can't say that there have been revelations, but
maybe some insight rubbed off.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I have prolonged a tiresome debate.  Now having said
all that, how about some real discussion -- say about the effect on and use
of technology by the artist or perhaps about cakes we have enjoyed...

[BH relurking...]

Brian Hill
Milwaukee, WI

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:51:14 -0800
From: rtc at sirius dot com (Robert Cambra)
Subject: Question/Misc.
Fellow ETers,

Why do we want to and what does it mean to stop time with music?  It's the
next obvious question, isn't it?  Robert Fripp touches on this from one
angle in ET 342: "Bootlegging Theory: A Deconstructionist Approach To
Post-Modernism."  (I hope the Orthodox divinity student who responded to
Fripp's questions a few ETs ago shares his thoughts on this.)

Next, let's all just come to terms with fact that there is no limit to
people's presumptuousness and get back to talking about music, if we can.

Also, lately while reading ET I've been listening to Ashra and it occurred
to me that this is music which might interest ET readers . Ashra, Ash Ra,
or Ashra Temple are all names for the work of German guitarist Manuel
Gottsching.  He's put out a lot of space albums, mostly, since the middle
70's; always playing an exquisitely sweet guitar, even on his few rock
albums on which he employs a very ordinary back up band.  I figure he's
fairly obscure since no one ever mentions him anywhere.  The album I would
most recommend is NEW AGE OF EARTH.

"'Tude?"  Who says 'tude?  Boys with backwards baseball caps?

Best,
Robert Cambra
San Francisco

Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:58:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Nameless to the Goddess <afn39111 at afn dot org>
Subject: Philosophy/psychology of music
From: "Mark Fenkner" <ennea at net-gate dot com>

> with the words.  I would shape the meaning of the song's lyrics to match
> current fantasies or situations in my life, imagining all sorts of crazy

That is just what happens with art. Only half of art is creation, the other
half is interpretation. You will not feel the same way about the music as
the creator. Same with books, poems, paintings. Are you wrong? Hell no, you
just found something in the work that the artist did not know he put
in--but give him a moment to think about it, and very often he will say,
"oh yeah, in a way I think you have a point." It's the subconscious.  The
artist's subconscious or your own is not a flaw in your relationship with
the music.

> up with me, but I was also imagining that I was playing for a crowd of
> people that adored me and thought me tragic.  And I became even more out

We all want to be adored and even more than that, understood. Because there
is no sympathy in this world. And if there is any kindness, any caring, it
seems to get captured by the truly stunning people like Robert Fripp et al,
so much that they are actually overwhelmed. I could almost not imagine
being loved too much, love being a bad thing, but
everything--everything--in moderation, it seems.

I say we should put a stop to it. God damn, I'd be ecstatic if someone
walked up to me and said something good, and actually meant it, if
something I'd done had actually made a difference, but when you get it ALL
THE TIME, even this would lose its charm, so what I suggest is if you have
the urge to approach an artist and annoy him, instead turn to someone who
needs it more, and annoy him instead (later this year I may stand on the
same stage as Chick Corea and I know I'll only look, because the only thing
I know I want from him is his music ... though preferably 'playing with'
not 'listening to').

Does this make sense? If so, does this, being adored, being sympathized
with, seem to be a musical issue, or more of a social issue (the a/e/f)? I'd
say the second. Society is not a flaw in your relationship with the music.

> All this is not to say that I never felt the moment when all else
> disappears but you and the music.  I often felt this (though sadly often

Music is not nirvana, it is samsara. It is the world. It is communication
and art and it's supposed to be FUN. If you meditate, and lose yourself,
then who will fill your rice bowl? Reality is still there. An active and
perceptive mind is not a flaw in your relationship with the music.

> To all of the people on this list that still are avid music enthusiasts,
>  what is the value of music to you?  Does it serve any constructive
>  function in our lives?

Music is one of my best friends. When no one will speak to me, the music
will. I will sometimes laugh out loud at a particularly witty passage of
music, such as when I realized what Bela Fleck and the Flecktones were
doing in "Lochs of Dread." And songs can be even better, because they use
language. Songs tell kind things, and though the artist does not really
mean to say them to you, the words remain. Here you can find
sympathy. Music will fill empty time, give me something to do, one more
stimulus to add to the experiential soup so that they all last longer and
kill more time.

Music is a teacher. Queensryche, Sylvian, Marillion, Sarah McLachlan teach
me how to sing. Chick Corea, Bobby McFerrin, John McLaughlin, Bela Fleck
teach me how to improvise. Music teachs me how to come up with bass lines,
how to be dissonant and still sound good, how to drum and to say to hell
with the metronomic pulse, be interesting instead.

Music is part of me. Have you ever realized how arbitrary your conception
of body is? Why those particular molecules? You know, that molecule of
oxygen that you pointed to a moment ago and said, "it's not part of me," is
part of you. Well, if I can make a definition, I will: my music is a part
of me.  Did you not ever wonder why, when someone insults your music, you
yourself are insulted?

So what is the relationship between a person and his music? It is between
two friends that are the same person, it is self-love, maybe.

>emotions?  Currently, it seems no better to me than masturbation.  And how

How apt.

But you say there is someone else there, there is this mysterious artist,
the true source of the teachings and the words, the only way the words
remain surprising. Say then that music (or art in general) is a thing that
makes us a part of other people, that makes us a part of the human race,
that it is a love of humanity, of all the stunning pick-work and tragic
flaws that make us human, say that it is a "love letter" or a "hot date."
Maybe loving the human is not as good as being loved yourself, but for some
it is all we can have.

If music is an emotion, than any flaw in your relationship with the music
would an emotional one, similar to those couples may have all the time. We
all want to be beautiful (or technical, or flawlessly played) but more than
that we want to be loved not because we are technical, but because of who
we are. Treat the music the same way you would a human, consider it as it
is.  Listen to the melodies, and to the harmonies.

A simplistic philosophy, maybe.

Sinister Minister <*> Church of Perelandra: http://www.afn.org/~afn39111
Now annoying no one with: Stan Getz/Kenny Barron: _People Time_
DREAMS OF TAKING THE VEIL--a rollercoaster reality ride

From: oracular at webtv dot net (David Denis)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:23:58 -0500
Is it true Fripp is working with Michael Jackson?

From: <Throatspro at aol dot com>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:42:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Autobio Title Suggestions
Dear Robert Fripp:

Forgive the direct intrusion, but some title suggestions did pop into mind
at your invitation. I'm a published novelist, here and abroad, so this sort
of thing is in my line.

1) ANGELS WITH HEADDRILLS. This simile has occurred to me more than once
during your performances.

2) GOOSEFLESH DOESN'T LIE. This phrase was my instant reaction to the ET
poster who questioned whether music had any inherent value.

3) CLICKITY CLACK. The sound of a typewriter keyboard, natch, in
perpetuation of your current thread of eponymi. (Or, if you should write
the manuscript on an old fashioned typewriter, CLICKETY CLACK PING.)

Of course, my dear wife (who doesn't understand) would probably suggest
DOOM & GLOOM... Watch this be the one you spring for!

Salutations,
Tim Lucas
(KC devotee since 1970)

From: QUEST <dcapehar at utdallas dot edu>
...though there may be debate as to the nature of the answer.

I'm not sure how much interest there is on the part of the rest of the
Team, so I ask via personal e-mail (or impersonal, depending on how you
look at it).  If you feel there is sufficient interest amonst the various
members of the Team, I have no objection to your answering the question
there.  Anyway, here goes:

You mentioned in your most recent update that Ian McDonald and Michael
Giles are expected to attend the Epitaph commemoration, consumption, get-
together, etc. on the 15th of March.  In lieu of your continued
acquaintance with them, might there be a possibility of releasing and/or
distributing the "McDonald & Giles" album on CD, remastered or otherwise,
on DGM?

That is all.  (I'll spare you the moments of sincere compliment until a
more appropriate opportunity arises.)

Thank you,
Damon Capehart

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:19:40 -0500
From: "Steven W. Sthole" <sws at indra dot com>
Subject: Bowie and Eno contirbution to 'Lost Highway'
If there are any David Lynch / Twin Peaks fans out there in ET-land, you
might be interested in checking out Lynch's bizzare new film, Lost
Highway. The website 'www.lost-highway.com' has some real-audio samples
from the film, including 'Deranged', written by Bowie and Eno and perfomed
by Bowie.

Be sure to check out the contributions by Angelo Badalamenti. They are
eerie and beautiful. Some of the saxaphone is reminiscent to me of
'Earthbound'-era Crimson.

Enjoy.
-sws at indra dot com

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 07:08:51 -0800
From: Kent Smith <smithhouse at earthlink dot net>
Organization: smithhouse
Subject: Tchad Blake: Binauralisms
Hi!  I'd like to invite you to share with the readers of the Elephant Talk
mailing the news that recording engineer, Tchad Blake, has a new web site.
Tchad has just finished work on Tony Levin's "Caves of the Iron Mountain"
project, and he is working on special binaural recording projects for Real
World Records to be released this year.  He and I have just finished the
first pass on the web pages and would like to invite the Crimso fans to
drop by, check out the sights, and drop us a line using the handy handshake
page at...

http://home.earthlink.net/~smithhouse/binaural/

--
*--------------------------------------------------------------
Kim, Gray & Kent Smith   http://home.earthlink.net/~smithhouse
                         SmithHouse at earthlink dot net
*--------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Feb 97 04:56:40 EST
From: Discipline Global Mobile <73064 dot 1470 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: Words beginning with "Q" this time: quibblings, quixoticiticies and querulosities
Saturday 15th. February, 1997.

Dear Team,

Regret, recantation, recalibration:

The middle of "Breathless" is 11 + 11 + 11 + 3 over 8.

Words beginning with "Q" this time: quibblings, quixoticiticies and
querulosities re: ET 345 ...

I

Date: 09 Feb 97 00:59:50 EST
From: Palmer <73670 dot 2065 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: Fripp's Aim

JRP: While in practice suffering comes because we do not have perfect
knowledge of how to achieve the aim most effectively, or because to affect
a change is also to break relationships, this does not make it necessarily
so that we _must_ suffer for our aims.  To say "impossible" is to accept
inevitability, and to deny free will.

RF: If we accept that "it is impossible to achieve the aim without
suffering", we have the choice: are we prepared to suffer to achieve our
aim, or not? This is our free choice. Then, if we are, we move on to
discover that there are different kinds of suffering: some necessary, some
unnecessary, some optional.

	Or so it seems to me.

II

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:31:54 -0500 (EST)
From: COSMICAC at aol dot com
Subject: All This Frippery

BT: ... Fripp's postings ... reveal that he has a great deal of respect for
his audience, and in an utterly impersonal manner, affection for our
enthusiasm as well.  This says as much about us as it does about Fripp.

RF: Yes. Yes.

BT: ... and I hope that this puts to rest once and for all the thread
concerning Fripp's "tude" towards his audience.

RF: Er, maybe. See below.

III

Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:19:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com
Subject: Metrical Structure of "Breathless"

B the ES: Before this argument over the imaginary time signature 3/3 goes
any farther, I'd like to point out that the whole discussion is rooted in a
typographical error!

RF: Too true. Please see regret, recantation and recalibration above.

IV

Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 00:25:11 +0000
From: Orn Orrason <"ossi at isholf dot is, ossi"@kerfi.hi.is>
Organization: Systems Engineering lab University of Iceland
Subject: Young persons guide to energy

OO: One word to Robert. Great you have CALMED DOWN...

RF: You don't know what I'm like excited.

V

Date: 07 Feb 97 18:47:51 -0500
From: Greg Bastug <GBastug at essexusa dot com>
Subject: How to Meet Fripp

GB: Over the past 15 years, I've had several encounters with Robert Fripp,
and he hasn't run from any of them...

RF: Perhaps I was hiding from you.

GB: If you invest wisely in such encounters, he will symbolize his
appreciation with an autograph.

RF: Or spit on your foot.

GB: (PS - See you soon, RF)

RF: Maybe. Or maybe not. Maybe, Or maybe not ...

VI

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:31:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "Anton Swansorb" <swansorb at hotmail dot com>
Subject: A commentary on Robert Fripp's recent ET behaviour

AS: Dear Mr. Fripp,

At first I read your contributions to Elephant Talk with great
interest. You appeared to be attempting to engage in banter with your fans
in an intelligent manner, unlike the ill-conceived, juvenile ranting and
raving that was courtesy of fellow bandmate Adrian Belew.

RF: Most professionals would agree with you that Adrian's posting to ET was
"ill-conceived". The conventional wisdom is that artists should never
interract with "fans" on anything other than a superficial level: smile, be
nice, sign autographs: that is, act in accordance with conventional wants,
assumptions and expectations. The common wisdom continues that should the
artist respond / move into the unexpected, unwanted, or polemic (like, by
declining to sign an autograph and then to explain why) the "fan" is likely
to get pissed. The conventional wisdom limits artist response and
engagement to trivialities.  Otherwise, trouble.

	Adrian's response was outside the parameters that most artists
observe (I appreciate there are exceptions). I found it very brave of
Adrian, an exceptionally generous man and musician, to declare his feelings
clearly and directly to the newsletter. But Adrian's posting was
straightforward: it had no "side". And I don't agree with your assessment
of it as "ranting and raving".

AS: However, you've taken your "diatribes" and "dialogue" to an equally
puzzling level. You've started ruminating on the most minute and
insignificant of fan-Fripp interactions as if they're of mammoth
importance.

RF: What you refer to as "minute ... interactions" are, to me, clear
demonstrations and examples of a range of undeclared expectations,
assumptions, reactions and projections which I have met many times, in many
places, from many people, for many years. Often the minutiae of behaviour
is subtle. Because of my own interest in performance as a microcosm of
society, and how performance might have effect outside the performance
space, the "minute interactions" carry great significance. In the postings
to ET I've been addressing, inter alia, assumptions and expectations of
particular fan / artist interraction. To me, this is of "mammoth
importance". I hope the unspoken agenda may be declared and discussed.

	But, there is no reason why this should be important to you. I am
surprised you might find it surprising that I attribute such value to it:
performance, and therefore the relationship between musician and audience
is a major part of my life and concerns.

AS:	In fact, you're obviously spending an unbelievable and astonishing amount
of time reading ET and formulating responses.

RF:	The quick answer is, yes.

	Firstly, a large number of people are generous enough to have
expressed an interest in my work. This is the first time for six years, and
hence since ET has been online, that I have been able to make any
significant contribution or response to that interest.

	Secondly, when I become engaged in an undertaking, it gets my best shot.

	Thirdly, this is not a hobby for me, although I appreciate that for
any reader whose interest doesn't match my own degree of commitment (which
is unlikely) my commentaries may be heavy weather.

AS: But you're now demonstrating some fairly toothy behaviour yourself.
And that behaviour seems to depict a fundamental unwillingness to
acknowledge basic human tendencies and interaction models.

RF: Surely the reverse. If you have a sufficient interest to go back
through my posts, you'll see me repeatedly addressing and acknowledging
"basic human tendencies and interaction models" between fan / enthusiast /
artist. And I don't believe anyone is likely to work in groups for 35 years
and 10 months (RF the Pedant) without a willingness, and interest, in
acknowledging and exploring people's "tendencies and interactions".

AS: You don't seem particularly interested in generating goodwill amongst
your fans ...

RF: Goodwill is always involved. You seem to be referring to Robert's lack
of concern for personal popularity.

AS: ... unless it's something which directly benefits you (e.g. the
upcoming listening/ purchasing session in Britain).

RF: The Playback session is likely to cost RF / DGM L7,500. Sales at that
event will benefit members of Crimso 69 and DGM. I am a relatively small
part of both.

	However, I / we are happy to take your money.

AS: I guess never once in your life have you bothered someone in a moment
that was inappropriate. That's pretty damn impressive Mr.  Fripp if it's
true. High standards indeed.

RF: Actually, twice. Once in 1971, in Greenwich Village. Once in 1993, at
Heathrow Terminal Three.

	The first occasion was inappropriate, and I learnt from it. (Guitar
Craft aphorism: "There is no mistake save one: the failure to learn from a
mistake").  And the second occasion was only a little - bit -
inappropriate.

AS: The overzealous behaviour some of your fans have displayed is a perfect
example (of childlike behaviour). It's truly nothing to get hyper,
concerned or over-analytical about.

RF: And some of it is.

	Your comment suggests to me that you have very little idea of the
degrees to which "overzealous behaviour" from fans might become or can
reach; to make a judgement such as this you have to have the information,
better still the experience, of someone who has been in the frontline for
many years.

	When fandom moves into obsession, and obsession moves into madness,
and madness expresses itself in stalking and pursuit, concern is a
reasonable response. Actually, a calm response. Those who have been the
subject of this rarely discuss it in public. (Once again, this is
professional conventional wisdom).

AS: So, relax.

RF: My bio-feedback card says I am relaxed.

AS: Consider offering a smile instead of a grimace.

RF: You mean, you haven't seen me smiling?

AS: Consider choosing to calmly explain your frame of mind to the offending
person rather than act offended and disgusted.

RF: In Berlin, in 1980 with The League of Gentlemen, I stood and calmly
explained to a burly, black leather-coated, bearded and tattooed gentleman
for ten minutes why I was declining to sign his various collectibles. His
own frame of mind did not appear to be enhanced by the calm explanation of
my own differing viewpoint: actually, the reverse. And then he tore up his
many collectibles, one by one, and threw the pieces to the floor.

	I didn't look on him as an "offending party". I looked on him as an
autograph collector. He wanted me to sign his collection of memorabilia and
I declined, with an explanation which he appeared to find unconvincing.

	I respond, and have responded, in several hundred (or more)
meetings with fans, enthusiasts and audience over a period of 27 years on
four continents.  For many years my general policy was to stand, and
explain calmly, reasonably, and sometimes at great length, why I felt
unable to do what the fan wanted / demanded of me. The above example is
only one of many. My own experience is that a calm and reasonable
presentation of why I was not going to do what the fan wanted me to do
rarely appears to persuade, or satisfy, the fan whose request is being
declined concurrent with the explanation.

	Now, after several hundred personal encounters and dozens of
explanations, or not, my general policy is to no longer stand and explain
myself. I am available at the right time, in the right place to the right
person / s. And sometimes the "wrong" person / s at the right time and
place.  Currently, the debate has moved to a larger forum.

	As a footnote, it is possible to explain, calmly and reasonably, an
alternative viewpoint to an enthusiast, or a connoisseur. But very, very
difficult to a fan who knows what they want, and has even parted with their
hard-earned pay.

AS: But you'll only enhance your frame of mind and that of the offending
party if you take that path.

RF: I find Anton's advice unwarranted, presumptious and arrogant.

	My experience, having taken the path suggested by Anton several
dozen times during hundreds of meetings, leads me to a contrary
viewpoint. But I can't speak for the other parties.

VII

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:22:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven Sullivan <sullivan at gwis2 dot circ dot gwu dot edu>
Subject: an official boot I'd like to see

SS: I'd like to second the call for the famous Concertgebouw concert to be
released as an official 'bootleg, with the tracks from S&BB intact.  I've
always thought the version of Talking Drum/LTiAII here were the among the
best.

RF: We're planning a DGM release of the BBC Radio broadcast of this show.
(This is the source for the widespread bootlegs). There are complexities to
this: I don't control the material taken from this show which was used on
the "Starless And Bible Black" album, which was part of the EG dispute.

	Our plans are to release the BBC version of the show as "The
Nightwatch", hoplefully in September 1997.

VIII

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:35:59 +0100 (MET)
From: Arato Andras <jzb3101 at stud dot u-szeged dot hu>
Subject: Re: Mr Kozak's Fripp

AA: Dear ETers!  IN ET number 343 Mr Kozak wrote to RF: SHUT UP AND PLAY
YOUR GUITAR

RF: Good advice, and thank you. Tomorrow I fly to Nashville to write new
material for KC with Adrian and Trey.

AA: And just questions. Could anyone tell me how a university student in
Eastern Europe can buy the KC CD-s (official or any other)? I myself borrow
them and get it on tape (don't even have the money for a CDplayer). What do
you think about that Mr Fripp?

RF: We operate a mail order service for the complete catalogue from DGM
here in the UK, but it is only for CDs.

IX

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:01:50 -0500
From: alan s cohen <i000371 at disch3 dot disc dot dla dot mil>

ASC: ... I had an experience a couple of years ago while on vacation in
Prince Edward Island (incredible place) which helped me understand the
problem of trying to capture the moment. I was hiking somewhere trying to
get a picture of practically everything (It's that kind of place-
everything begs for a picture).  So after a while of walking and stopping
to take pictures, I realized that in an effort to capture the island on
film, I wasn't experiencing being there at that moment. Capturing the
memory was becoming more important than experiencing the moment. So I just
sat and experienced being there for a while.

RF: Well done. This strikes me as clear, precise, accurate.

ASC: And then took some more pictures. Is this contradictory?

RF: Yes and no.

X

From: Charles Jowett <jowett_charles at waters dot com>
Subject: Bootlegs and Meeting Mr. Fripp
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:53:36 -0500

CJ: Some thoughts on boot legging...

Many years ago a friend and I smuggled a tape recorder into a King Crimson
concert.  The act of recording the concert severely disrupted my
appreciation of the event.  I became more involved with worrying about the
tape than listening to the music (How are the levels?  I wish that guy
would shut up, he's ruining my tape.  Has my tape recorder been spotted by
that nasty looking roadie?  I better not cheer, it'll come out on the
tape.)  In short, I never became caught up in the moment.  I remained
detached from the music and even the most brilliant performance would have
been lost on me.

RF: Well done, again.

XI

Subject: Fripp books?
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 15:41:39 -0500
From: Dave Anastasi <daanasta at student dot berklee dot edu>

DA: To Mr. Robert Fripp & Fellow ETers:

I myself am a musician and composer at Berklee College of Music, and have
always been very interested in reading about Robert's views regarding
performance, audiences, and music listening and appreciation.  I also see
myself in his views.  Has he ever written any books that I could get my
hands on?

RF: No. But should it be of interest, two pieces follow which were pinned
to the notice board at the recent Guitar Craft course in Argentina. Each
speaks to a different part of us. They are designed to be presented under
specific conditions which, obviously, don't apply here. My apologies if
they don't speak to any of the parts of any reader...

XII

	The musician acquires discipline in order to operate reliably and
efficiently in the world. Discipline confers the capacity to be effectual
in time.

	We begin by practising, and in time this becomes a practice. A
practice is the external form of any discipline, and may be considered as a
body of exercises, techniques and principles of working which make
recognisable the identity of any particular practice. The exercises and
techniques are specific to the particular practice, the principles
underlying them are common to all.

	The musician has three disciplines: of the head, the heart and the
hands.  The exercises and techniques of the practice therefore address the
cognitive, affective and motor skills of the student. The aim is to acquire
a balanced functioning of all three. The three disciplines are therefore
actually one discipline.

	The acquisition of this discipline is impossible without our
capacity to experience, and to experience our experiencing. The functions
of thinking, feeling and organic sensation are each seats of insight, or
perceptual "organs", into different kinds of experience. The development of
our experiencing, our perceptual abilities, through these three functions
is the beginning of any practice.

	When a school of craft undertakes an action or undertaking in the
world, it develops a body of practices to train those who wish to become
part of that action. Traditionally, these are called apprentices. A
practice addresses the "what" and "how" of what we do. The "why" is
determined by the particular craft of which the practice is a part.

	The practice is the visible side of craft and is generally referred
to as technique. In a school of music, it prepares the apprentice musician
for performance. The greater the technique, the less it is apparent.

	The apprentice musician plays music. When music plays the musician,
the invisible side of the craft has presented itself. Then, the apprentice
sees directly for themself what is actually and really involved. A
performance of music becomes the act of music, in which process and content
are inseparable.

	A school of craft aims to create conditions under which this
experience becomes available to its apprentices. At this point, the concern
for technique per se is placed in perspective.

XIII

Expectation closes our ears to what is happening in the moment.

Listening is how we eat music.
Hearing is how we digest it.

Hearing transforms sound into music.

Listening is a craft.
Hearing is an art.

Listening changes the performance to which we are listening.

Music changes when people hear it.

What we hear is the quality of our listening.

Our understanding changes what is is that we understand.

Silence is the field of creative musical intelligence which dwells in the space
between the notes, and holds them in place.

Silence is a bridge between worlds.

The science is in knowing, the art is in perceiving.

The future is what the present can bear.

The way we describe our world shows how we think of our world.
How we think of our world governs how we interpret our world.
How we interpret our world directs how we participate in it.
How we participate in the world shapes the world.

The presence of absence is an entry into loss.

Things are not as bad as they seem.
They are worse than that.
They are also better than that.

								November 1st.
1996.
								San Jose
Seminary,
								Gandara,
								Argentina.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 04:08:51 -0700
From: "David J. Wade" <subdub at primenet dot com>

Its astounding that we are able to have dialog with Mr. Fripp. I know Im in
late but Ill keep em short :

..i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience /
enthusiast/ fan and the musician?

A: It is the sharing of something not really of man. A shared launguage
never spoken, though instantaniously realized.

     ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan?  Tune in ?
Or, Tune out!  these are your choices.

     iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the
audience / enthusiast / fan?

Im a musician, and dont resond well to obligations , or responsibilities
for that matter.

     iv) What do you personally, as an
  audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists?

I expect the artists that I have respect for, to give prop to what they've
done in the past , and then show me a glimpse of where it might go
tomorrow....... Just me though.

     v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan
expect of Robert Fripp?

Its a sort of hypnosis.


Mike Stok