Elephant Talk #342 (as text)

6 February 1997

From: David Maclennan <davidm at athena dot moc dot govt dot nz>
Subject: Fripperies
Date: 04 Feb 1997 10:49:12 +1200
Jeez, by my count that's about half a dozen posts from Robert Fripp in the
past several ETs - methinks the man has too much time on his hands!  What
about getting cracking on that next KC album, Robert :-)

Seriously, though, I think Robert's posts have been one of the best things
to happen to this list in a long time.  He raises some important questions,
which we, as listeners/consumers/appreciators should address, and many have
done so most eloquently.  And at least we now know that Robert does indeed
read our rantings, so maybe the regular pleas from the likes of James
Dignan, myself, and other antipodean Crimheads for a band tour of this part
of the world may be answered positively one day.  I/we live in hope....

In the 2.5 years I've been on the Infobahn the debate generated by Robert's
questions has been the single most entertaining thing I've found on the
Net.  I subscribe to a number of music-related newsgroups, but ET is far
and away the best of them, and the most intelligent (well, most if the time
anyway!).  Indeed, were it not for ET I wouldn't have even have known about
KC's re-grouping in 1994, or at least I wouldn't have known about it so
quickly.  I signed up not long before VROOOM came out, so my timing was

So keep up the good work Toby, and ditto for the band!  Wish I could be in
the UK for the "Epitaph" premier (*sigh*).

David Maclennan

Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:00:41 -0800
From: Stephen Arthur <sarthur at ucla dot edu>
Subject: KC related stuff in aspic for sale part II
The list continues...

   ***Books for Sale or Trade***

'Itations of Jamaica and I Rastfari', Milard Faristzaddi (very colorful)

'Between Thought and Expression', Lou Reed

'Improvisation', Derek Bailey

'Robert Fripp', Eric Tamm

'Brian Eno, Vertical Color of Sound' Eric Tamm

'Meetings with Remarkable Men', Gurdjieff

        ***Video For Sale***

Roxy Music 'Total Recall'

In addition does anyone out there have any Don Cherry albums to recommend,
trade or whatever.  Please address me personally.

See my other posting, for other CD selections.  Help a starving student
continue his appreciation for the highest of music in this age.  By the way
I think that AB writes Better lyrics than JW, at least we don't fight over
AB multiple compositions.

And Fripp, if your are reading this, I hope this is not insulting to you
(me selling all your stuff).  Your the man.  Please do not post this in the
replies to Fripp section.  Those are boring to read.

Thanks for having a sense of humor, and accepting my misuse of it,

steve (Jamie Muir)

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 17:54 EST
From: Gary Mayne <0002508399 at mcimail dot com>
Subject: KC to Jethro Tull Connections
> MarkDAshby writes:
> >
> > I've been playing around with a game recently that some KC fans might be
> > interested in.  Perhaps some of you are familiar with the concept of Six
> > Degrees of Separation -- that is, anyone can be linked with anyone else by
> > mutual associations in six people or less.
> [snippety-snip, Emacs trick]
> I've spent some time on this sort of thing.  The rock family trees included
> with the box sets make it too easy, though.
> Most of the major British prog bands are easily connected, but Jethro Tull
> can be tricky.  No connections come to mind, but I think I knew one once.

As detailed by Ron Harding in ET 336, Maddy Prior to Bowie to Fripp is one,
Fairport Convention is another: Dave Pegg, Fairport's bass player, played
bass for Jethro Tull, Dave Mattacks plays drums for Fairport, he also
played for XTC as did Pat Mastelotto.


Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:00:49 -0700
From: Doug Abshire <dabshire at sni dot net>
Subject: Ian Wallace on Procol Harum 93 same as KC Islands?

Eter's! In a recent tape trade, I received a Procol Harum tape from
Southend '93. The drummer is Ian Wallace. Is this the same drummer as of KC
Islands Era? Please confirm if possible. Iam must be approaching 50 if this
is the same musician.

(All anti-tape trading flames should be directed as private email to
dabshire at sni dot net)

Thanks & regards, DA

Prog rock / electronic rock at its best! Djam Karet & Loren Nerell's Home
page is at <www.csn.net/~dabshire>. Enjoy!

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:12:46 +1100 (EST)
From: Andrew Studer <studer at Physics dot usyd dot edu dot au>
Subject: 3/3 time
I won't quote exactly, but after one poster said that "you can't have a
third a note", and another saying "why not? people do all sorts of wierd
stuff", I thought I'd point out that the denominator in "3/3" time is a bit
meaningless, really. I mean, there is a convention that 2/4 and 4/4 are not
the same, even though a melody written in eighth notes in 2/4 looks sort of
the same as quarter notes written in 4/4 time: convention, however, states
taht the notes are accented differently (those better educated may choose
to argue at this point)

The point is that the denominator is a "unit"- it just says what your
counting block is. You could transcribe the Blue Danube Waltz into 3/3 if
you invented the appropriate symbols, and it would sound the same.

There is an important (musically interesting) exception. Composers will
some shift from, say 12/8 to 4/4. This communicates an important shift in
"feel" during the piece. Equally, a composer may choose to have two
instruments playing in different times (say a 5/4 and a 3/2)
simultaneously. My band (keyboards and drums only) is working on such a
piece at the moment (the drummer, rhythmatist that he is, has worked it
out. Me, the lowly keyboardist, I'm still struggling). Anyway, the point is
that having one player playing in "3/4" while another plays in "3/3" is
musically interesting.


From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:14:00 +0000
Subject: 3/3 unnecessary?
> Because the symbols to notate 3/3 time don't exist in standard Western
> musical notation, does it mean that this time signature does not exist?  A
> measure of music can be divided into thirds and expressed in thirds of a
> beat if a composer wants to write it that way.  Sure, he/she would have to
> invent a character to be the one-third note, but what's wrong with that?

But why bother? The 4, 8, 16, whatever on the bottom of the time signature
only really serves the purpose of giving a vague hint as to the tempo of
the piece.  A bar of music divided into 3 equal measures could be 3/4 or
3/8. If you want each measure to have a further 3 equal portions then you
could go for 9/8 or just play your 3/4 in triplets!

The only possible reason (I can see) for 3/3 would be if it was being
played at the same time as some other instrument(s) in 'standard' time
signatures, such that you could define how they sync up. Even so, you could
manage this with standard notation, although maybe less elegantly - 4/4
with semibreve triplets.  Or I think you could also use what my old school
music teacher would call the 'half breast' notation (3 crotchets in a 4/4
bar, each with a dot and semicircular arc above them).

Matt Nolan.

From: bbacher at harding dot com
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 8:22:23 CST
Subject: Trey Gunn and Quake
Pardon me if this is too off-topic....

I had been listening to Trey Gunn's latest, "The Third Star" (TTS), through
my computer's CDRom drive (audiophiles will cringe) one day a few weeks
ago.  I finished what I was working on, stopped and closed the CD player
program, and started playing Quake.  For those of you not in the know,
Quake is a gorey bloodfest, shoot-everything-that-moves computer game.

To my amusement, the game began playing tracks off the CD as background
music.  To my extreme surprise and utter delight I found that I liked it.

These two go together like chocolate and peanut butter!!!  I have found two
other people who have tried them together and also like it, despite the
fact that they'd never heard (or heard of) Trey Gunn before I lent them the

Nine Inch Nails was hired to compose tracks for the game, and their tracks
are included on the CD with the game, but (IMHO) their tracks stink
compared with TTS.  I'm sure Trey never had this kind of thing in mind when
he composed the tracks on TTS....

The tracks on TTS have just enough power and drive to keep the adrenaline
rushing while you play the game, but enough levity that it keeps you from
taking the game too seriously.  The NIN tracks are dark death-metal, which
only adds to the game's pomposity (and make it less enjoyable in my

Maybe I'm the only ET'er who plays Quake, but somehow I doubt it.  Those
who do, please try this and let me know what you think!

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:51:11 -0500 (EST)
From: murkie <mchriste at panther dot middlebury dot edu>
Subject: a short step from Neil Young to Fripp
Don't remember who wanted this, but it's a couple of short steps from Neil
Young to Fripp.

Neil Young -> Crosby & Nash whose albums featured guitarist -> David
Lindley whose solo album "El Rayo-Ex" featured former King Crimson drummer
Ian Wallace.



=                                                                   =
=         M  a  r   k      C  h  r  i  s  t  e  n  s  e  n          =
=     Cramped Quarters Studio / Jasperpottamus Music Publishing     =
=                  internet: murkie at middlebury dot edu                  =
=     "The world isn't flat.  It's actually +6 dBa at 5.7 kHz."     =
=                                                                   =

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:57:55 +0000
From: smatthew at gmu dot edu (Scott @ IHS)
Subject: ET: The Absurdity of Social "Rights" in re Robert Fripp
Dear Complainants Who Feel They Have Been Wronged by Robert Fripp:

A basic return to the laws of the market and simple contracts is in order
for those fans of KC and RF who believe that some form of social
acknowledgement, whether verbal, physical, or written, is their due.
Robert Fripp, as a performing artist, has the right in a free society to
put on an exhibition of his compositions.  He may contract with private
citizens to play for them for a set fee, and at a set venue and time, and
so long as they are still possessed of their right of exit, they are due
nothing more.  So long as R.F. performs at the set time and place, and so
long as the attendees have not interfered with R.F.'s physical well-being,
or that of his property, neither party has violated their contractual
obligations.  To imply that "the audience is a co-creator of music" is
absurd, for a rational consumer would then logically conclude that there
are cheaper and more convenient methods for the "production" of Robert
Fripp's music than attending a K.C. concert!

"I ran away from Matt the Three Headed Beast not because of his breath, not
because of his person, but because of his behaviour" is the line that
particularly stands out from R.F.'s recent posts.  The aforementioned
"Three Headed Beast" was under no obligation, either legally or morally, to
act in any way towards Fripp, but only to refrain from doing him harm.
However, fans must remain aware of the fact that, as consumers, they are
engaging in a transaction which takes place because both parties are
willing, and that actions which clearly disturb one party may jeopardize
the willingness of that party to engage in the same transaction in the
future.  In the same way that a poor performance would not encourage
spectators to pay for another, the frequent undesired encounters with
belligerent fans discourage R.F. from wanting to repeat them.  It is
fortunate that R.F. apparently places a high enough value on his
performance that he is willing to continue despite being approached in ways
which clearly bother him.

Furthermore, while R.F. has no "right" not to be spoken to, nor any "right"
to avoid conduct of fans which is not agreed to in contract, common decency
should stand in the way of fans who prefer to disturb K.C. performances, or
to participate in ritualistic autograph-seeking at clearly inappropriate
times (e.g. when R.F. is attempting to listen to a band as an interested
admirer, without distractions).  It seems to me completely irrational that
someone who has paid upwards of $50 to attend a performance of an
interesting and talented artist would not give that artist, and that
performance, his/her undivided attention.  There is plenty of time for
cat-calls, sing-alongs, and other buffoonery after a paid performance is
over.  Yet, in the same way that "students" at university prefer to hear
themselves, rather than an expert tutor or lecturer who is well
compensated, talk, there are spectators who would rather hear their
rantings and off-key renditions of popular tunes than a quality

Seeing as I am quite visibly angered by all disruptive actions of fans that
are not somehow more entertaining than annoying (which leaves out precious
few), I can only imagine how R.F. would feel when combatting not only the
disrespectful behavior of fans toward those who would prefer to watch a
performance, but all the while have to deal with individuals who insist on
PERSONALLY disturbing him as he puts forth the same effort as the handful
of concerned spectators who place enjoyment and analysis higher in their
value rankings than cat-calls shot forth in a drunken stupor.  Perhaps that
will make things seem more bearable next time I attend a Crimson show,
armed with the realization that, hey, at least they're not trying to
disturb my personal experience, they're merely generalized buffoons.

I apologize for the length of this post, but with all of the talk of
"rights" and "prats," I believe it is necessary that fans of K.C. and
R.F. need to understand what they should and should not expect of R.F. and
of each other.  If R.F.  offends you to the point where you do not wish to
support him either financially or verbally, cease to fund his endeavours,
and denounce him to the hills.  But don't act as if he has "violated" your
"rights," or whine because you believe he should respond to social stimuli
in the way you EXPECT.  A is A, Fripp is Fripp.  Deal with it.

Cheers and good tidings,

*Scott L. Matthews              #   #   #   ### *
*Program Coordinator            #   #   #   #   *
*Institute for Humane Studies   #   #####    #  *
*  at George Mason University   #   #   #     # *
*4084 University Dr., Suite 101 #   #   #   ### *
*Fairfax, VA  22030             ----------------*
*Ph: (703) 934-6920             smatthew at gmu dot edu*
*Fax:(703) 352-7535                             *
*IHS home page: http://osf1.gmu.edu/~ihs/       *

Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:09:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Basile <basilej at rams1 dot rasd dot k12 dot pa dot us>
Subject: Fripp review,My E-mail,Thanks Toby

Read a neat book that had a true reference or two about RF & KC.  It talks
ROCK AND ROLL;byE.WARD,G.STOKES,K.TUCKER;1986)"Though less influential,
probly because more eccentric, King Crimson's Robert Fripp was even more
inventive gutarist than Page""Even before Frippertronics in the late
1970's,it seemed that Fripp could make his guitar do anything" They quote
Greg Lake,"If Fripp specializes in anything,it was surprise; analtered
rythm,a jarring dissonance in the midst of a melody(& vice versa)" It was
for these qualities that he was most valued in New York's avant-gard scene
in the early to mid 1980's,and even at Crimsons most portentous, Fripp
always kept their audiences pleasantly off balance."  But for all the
impish humor that kept peeking through his solos, was like Page in one
crucial way;Each successive album revealed that its predecssor had actually
been restrained." "Fripp constantly pushed his art of surprise to the very
edge;one step futher and surprise would have been impossible, because
nothing,or everything,could have been anticipated."  "Neither the
heavymetrtal bands following Led Zepplin nor the post-Crimson art rockers
ever managed with any consistency to situate their restraint with the
precision of Page or Fripp." "Given the year, they went, it appears even
more clearly in retrospect, as far as you could go."

(Until Thrak)

On my E-mail concerning Turkey, Charlaton,..It's a joke...OK...I, lifted it
from a 1980's interview...remember it is a sense of humor....a sense.

My boy Joey loves VROOOM & Dinosaur knowing all the words> Pretty good
taste in music for an 8 year old !

Toby I never thanked you for this obseeion,bless you!


Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:05:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Roberto Galvez <contacto at amauta dot rcp dot net dot pe>
Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #339
>Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:35:34 -0600 (CST)
>From: Michael Forrest Zink <dpgumby at csd dot uwm dot edu>
>Subject: The Jethro-Crimson Connection
>	When this "6 Degrees" thing first came up, someone mentioned Jethro
>Tull as being a hard one to connect to.  I found a link, although some may
>consider this stretching it a bit -- Mick Abrahams was the original
>guitarist for Tull.  He then formed Blodwyn Pig, and when he left he was
>replaced by Peter Banks of Yes (although this line-up broke up before any
>performances - live or recorded) who was in Yes with Bill Bruford who bangs
>the percussives for KC.  (I missed the last couple of newsletters so
>forgive me if it was brought to light already.)

I have a more direct link :Martin Barre (Jethro) played the lead guitar in
John Wetton 's solo LP ,according to the info in his compilation CD 'The
King's Road ' (or something like that).


Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 21:32:54 -0800
From: jtull1 at ix dot netcom dot com (RICHARD SHEEHAN)
Subject: 6 degree of tull
easy( being a Tull fanatic). Here's a few.

Steel eyespan(Maddy prior)->Martin Barre(Tull)->Mel Collins(KC)(worked
    Barre's first solo project)

Fairport Convention(Dave Pegg)->Eddie Jobson(Tull)->Yes(BB)->KC

Led Zepplin(Plant+Page)->Barrie Barlow(Tull)->Jobson...

Richard Thompsan->Dave Mattacks(Tull from Fairport)->Maddy Prior(Steel
    eyespan)->David Bowie-> Belew

There are alot more Tull member connections, mostly thru Jobson. On a
controversial note, I was disappointed with Thrakattack. I found the
improv random and boring. Not like the improvs on Great Deciver boxset.
Anyone care to enlighten me? Feel free to email me.


From: "Keith Sommers" <ksommers at communique dot net>
Subject: Re: Letter From Robert
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:23:10 -0600
Dear Robert and fellow ETer's,

I've read with great interest the discussion as to the rights and
responsibilities of musicians and audiences.  In addition, Robert, I've
enjoyed your responses to those who have questioned your actions when you
did not react to their encounters with you in the manner that they

If I may, I'd like to share with you my experience involving my personal
"encounter with Robert Fripp."  Hopefully, my analysis of my feelings will
enlighten you as to the motives that drive your "fans" to their behavior.

On Nov. 4, 1995, I attended the King Crimson concert at the House of Blues
in New Orleans.  While the California Guitar Trio was performing, I was
distressed that the audience was so loud, making it difficult to hear the
music.  My wife, standing beside me, and I, were both looking forward to
hearing these wonderful musicians perform.  When I glanced at her, who
should I see over her shoulder but Robert Fripp!!!

I must admit, I was immediately seized by the impulse to say hello, thanks
for all the great music and such, but, I did not.  I observed, in my
opinion, that you were also trying to hear the performance taking place
before us.  Rather than add to the noise and distractions, I went back to
my attempt to listen and enjoy the music.

After several minutes, you were recognized, approached by another member of
the audience, and you departed.

Every time I see a "Robert Fripp encounter" story in ET, I am reminded of
this event.  I have asked myself why I had the impulse to invade the space
of a person that in almost every sense is a total stranger.  I resisted
that impulse because, in my opinion, it was not the appropriate time and
place.  However, the fact that it existed at all is the subject of this

To explain it, I can only use my own experience to put it in perspective.
Being an amateur musician myself, there have been times, while letting the
music present itself to me, that I have felt myself taken away.  On some
rare occasions, others have been touched by the music that came forth.
Your music has certainly gone deeper into that place than most.

The emotions evoked in the music are real.  I suppose the problem lies in
directing them to some tangible source.  Whether it is right or wrong, in
many cases, those who have been touched by your music direct their
emotional responses to your music back to you.  I don't think it's a
conscious choice.

By asking your questions on expectations, rights, etc., of musicians and
their audiences, you have attempted, in my opinion, to apply logic and
rational thought to a situation in which music, and the emotional responses
we all invest in this music, are the ties that connect us all to one
another.  It seems a bit of a contradiction.

You have mentioned revealing your own expectations and assumptions, rights
and obligations, when you feel the time is right.  I'm sure this would be
enlightening for all concerned.

I hope this letter has in some way been useful to you.

In addition, I'd like to thank you for taking the opportunity to use this
medium in a way that will hopefully be constructive and enlightening for
everyone involved.


From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:36:35 +0000
Subject: Horrible thought?
I was driving home last night, listening to the radio (UK BBC Radio 1) and
I heard the latest song / dance mix by Tori Amos. It has a repetive
'groovy' bass line (they're all the rage at present) which made me think
about the bass lines from The Talking Drum and Elephant talk.

Thinking about it again, in the office this afternoon, I hit upon a
dangerous idea.

The Talking Drum could very easily be re-mixed into an 'ambient dance' hit!
Elephant Talk could undergo similar treatment. In fact (a sad fact) the
bass line alone could form the basis of a chart-topping 'dance' track, with
a few sequenced midi overdubs and a couple of samples from the original
incessantly repeated over the top.

These could be considered acts of rape and pillage, but could probably be
done quite well (maybe even by people with which Mr Fripp already has
associations such as 'Future Sound of London' or 'The Orb').

I am not at all a fan of 'dance' music, although I am beginning to respect
some recent efforts which are getting quite creative (and remaining
popular!!) but these re-mixes (certainly TTD) could be quite succesful and
would hopefully help to open up peoples' ears to a wider spectrum of music.

Just a thought....

Matt Nolan.

Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:56:12 -0800
From: Pat von zur Muehlen <patvonz at primary dot net>
Subject: True love
Greetings to all KC fans and such, and too the fine architects of ET.  I am
writing this in hopes that the members of King Crimson will catch wind of
it.  This is the point.  Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, King Crimson, I love
you.  I love you unconditionally.  There is no Crimson album I do not like,
and I have heard each and every one many times. The first album I heard was
Court of the Crimson King when I was about 13 years old.  I am about to
turn thirty, and it's all as fresh as it ever was.  Every one is an
absolute gem and a marvel.  I cannot offer a preference for Fripp over
Belew or vice versa.  I love what they have done seperately and what they
do together.  I can tell from reading ET that there are facets of Fripp's
and Belew's careers which I am unfamiliar with.  But I have heard: League
of Crafty Guitarists, Exposure, League of Gentleman, Let the Power Fall,
Possible Musics, No Pussyfooting,The Lady or the Tiger,The Bears, Desire
Caught by the Tail, The Talking Heads stuff, Mr. Music Head, Twang Bar
King, Lone Rhino, that Adrian Acoustic thing, the brand new Adrian disk (Op
Bob Zoowah?), and the BabySnakes Movie. If I have forgotten something, I
love all this stuff also.  And by the way please Bill Bruford and Tony
Levin don't feel left out, I don't know anything about your work outside of
Crimson (except of course the Yes Stuff, I like Yes.) but it is a band and
I definitely love you both as well.  I have at last seen you all play for
the Thrak tour, Chicago, Nov, 27, 95, it was pure bliss, and St. Louis for
the Horde show (I was the guy on the lawn screaming between the songs and
sort of dancing, I hope I didn't annoy you, I wanted you to know I was
there for you alone.)  And so far you can do no wrong. Please continue to
be the best, most consistent, and wonderful band that you have always
been. I love you. Thrak on.

Your fan, Peter von zur Muehlen, St. Louis, MO.

Date: 05 Feb 97 12:09:29 EST
From: Discipline Global Mobile <73064 dot 1470 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: from Robert Fripp
	Monday, February 3rd. 1997.

Dear Team,

	Many thanks for the level of response to my request for
consideration of the question/s of the relationship between audient and
musician. I am very impressed by the time and attention which gas gone into
the considered replies.

	Several of the Team have begun to write to me directly here at DGM
World Central. May I suggest that for topics related to the ET debate/s
they contribute them to ET?


Toby the Hero.

	Last week I 'phoned Toby. This is a summary-ish of part of our

	Toby began the newletter for "enthusiasts" without seeking my
permission, or asking for my blessing. I have no objection to this: music
played in public by professional musicians is, impliedly, open to public
discussion and debate.  Even welcomed and encouraged. And I am impressed by
Toby's choice of terms: "enthusiasts" are directed by inspiration, "fans"
by fanaticism.

	I approach this forum with some hesitation, and trepidation. This
is your newsletter, not mine. On the other hand, it would seem to have some
connection with me. But, once again, this is your place for Crim-related
conversation. So here is a problem: this is The Internet.

	It seems (I suggested to Toby) that there are six geographical
conversation areas over which we have some influence and input: domestic,
local, regional, national, international and global. (We haven't got to
interplanetary, although current standard record company contracts include
that one too!).  Whereas once we could make a dopey comment at home, or in
our neighbourhood bar, the same dopey localised comment now made over the
internet has a global reach and global audience / viewage.

	So, I have some sympathy with the commentators who have posted
relatively unconsidered opinions (which have their own value and are
insightful) but who might not have anticipated the repercussions of
careless commentary. The performer grows up in public. Maybe now, also the

	Also, may we consider the personal meetings and bumpings into,
small asides, and conversations in bars, between contributors and various
musicians / members of Crimson over a period of 20+ years. Like, Adrian's
comments on Fripp in a hotel bar after a gig to a friendly fan. The
replies, deliberate and otherwise, were probably never intended for
publication in a global discussion forum. Until now. Currently, whenever I
am asked a question, or approached for an autograph, or "suffer through a
few moments of sincere compliment", or not "suffer through a few moments of
sincere compliment", there are good odds that the incident will be reported
verbatim in Elephant Talk, sooner or later.

	What was formerly a personal exchange is now a global exchange in
public.  Simply, "personal" moments now have a potentially public and
global effect. (I don't recall seeing this addresed in ET before).

	Question: knowing this, do you think a performer might modify their
behaviour in close encounters of the enthusiast kind? If so, how?


	For many years I have been engaged in the varying forms of public
warfare and mass communion we know as the performance of music. My life as
a performer in public now covers 37 years and 10 months (I played "Le
Bateau de Tahiti" in a village hall in the Bournemouth area, as part of the
performance by Kathleen Gartell's Corfe Mullen School of Music). I've
adopted different approaches, at different times, in different places, to
different audiences, both collectively and individually; and continue to do
so. Generally, these approaches go against the conventional and expected
(there are good reasons for this). They rarely fall under the industry
heading of "smart career move". Inevitably, those in the audience who
expect the conventional might get their bag of bananas wrapped in a
tourniquet. And those who expect the unconventional onstage but the
conventional offstage might get their cucumbers grilled sideways.

	This is my concern as a musician: how to be in the presence of
music when the power turns on? Some of the ET correspondents have clearly
also been in this place: their letters resonate with the moment time
stops. Baby Blue, I have been there with you. Several times, on both sides
of the demarcation line.

	That moment, and its participants, is / are utterly impersonal. To
put if differently, there is nothing personal about this. Or to put it
differently this is impersonal, utterly.

	It is tragic that we struggle so hard to shut down our
possibilities to enter this timeless, impersonal moment. Like, by getting
personal. Or to put it differently, to get utterly personal.

	ET readers may have come to the general conclusion that personal
popularity doesn't come very high on Fripp's list of priorities. If it did,
clearly Fripp would have got personal with all the fans and enthusiasts who
only wanted to say "Thank you", or have a photograph of / with him, or sign
an autograph for them, or have an (only brief) conversation with him. After
all, "why not suffer through a few moments of sincere compliment"? And why
not? How seemingly plausible an argument! It doesn't take long, after
all. If only Fripp exerted himself a little more, and made a few personal
acknowledgements on demand from nice people, he'd be a popular guy. And
that's only his offstage behaviour! Soon we'll have him playing in more
light, and waving to audiences at the end of a show! Would Toby be able to
handle all the glowing reports of contributors' own individual personal and
group interractions with Fripp? What a nice guy! What a great man!

	On the other hand, some ET readers have already posted their own
positive "meeting with Fripp" story. How can this be? Is he a nice guy or
not? Or both?  Or neither? Are all of these possibly true, simultaneously?
Does he care? Do you care? Is it trivial? Does it have value, or relevance,
even both? Does Fripp want to be liked? Or hated? Does it matter, to me, to
him? It must do, because so many correpondents rattle their keyboards with
their recurring broohaha!

	From where I sit, with my left foot on the outside of the inside
and my right foot on the inside of the outside, impartially viewing the
postings and trying to come to some idea of what Fripp might be like
personally on the basis of all the posted and available information, I am
unable to come to any easy conclusion. It is as if each reported offstage
meeting with, or commentary of onstage Fripp, reflects the commentator
rather than casting much light on Fripp himself. That is, as if he were a
mirror, reflecting back to the person an aspect of themselves which they
then attribute to him. He seems to have a sense of humour, he seems to have
an active mind, he likes cake. He reads a lot. He entered a six-year
dispute which his former managers and two of the largest music groups in
the world on a point of principle: who in their right mind would prejudice
their career and solvency to do that? Certainly not a practical man: after
all, he threw up his career with Crimson twice! And then there's the
problem of the music: where did that come from? It has touched me in places
that rarely get touched - I know he's a creep, so how could that happen? I
know he's not emotional, so how come I'm moved? I know he doesn't take any
interest in the audience, because he is so still on stage. And I can't see
his fingers moving.  He's not even interested in the group, which is
Adrian's now anyway. (And Adrian's too poppy by far).

	Lighten up - this is way too serious!

	Calm down!


	My interest in addressing the forum began some three years ago when
a number of postings of impressive (in my view arrogant) assumption
proffered definitive statements regarding my actions and decisions, even my
own opinions and feelings, on the basis of ... I wasn't quite sure
what. Where information was cited, for example in a post from Michael Bloom
(November 12th. 1993), it was impressively inaccurate. Michael claimed that
he was "not clueless"; i.e. in Crimspeak, Michael was informed. Michael is
one of life's good guys, and I believe that music touches him deeply. He
was also very brave to comment on my relationship and dispute with EG
Management on the basis of the information to which he had access.

	On the evening of Wednesday 8th. January, 1997, I signed four Deeds
of Settlement between myself, EG, Virgin Records and BMG Publishing, each
dated December 24th. 1996. Mr. Fenwick's signature was witnessed by Chris
Kettle, former King Crimson roadie from the Larks' Tongues period, now EG
employee of some twenty years, and the person formerly responsible for my
interests within EG, themselves formerly responsible for managing my
interests. I had been managed by EG for 21 years and 3 months, and in
dispute with them for six years.  My former managers had access to detailed
and virtually complete information on all my affairs while their affairs in
turn were almost completely closed to me.  And I really don't have an equal
bargaining position with either Virgin or BMG.  On the morning of Monday
13th. January, 1997, my company secretary John Raymond, who lives opposite
the church in which I married and where my parents now reside, applied the
company seal to the Settlement deeds and despatched them to London. The
final court order is expected any day now.

	Those six years began with a sense of walking with opened veins in
quick-drying concrete, my life gradually leaving me. In 1992 I becmae aware
that I was slowly dying. Then the experience changed to one of a long and
painful death in the family, but one which also threatened to unseat me
personally and professionally.
	Simply, in that period my priorities did not include addressing
unwarranted assumptions and dopey conclusions, whether from supportive
enthusiasts or otherwise.

	On January 13th. I wrote to Elephant Talk in the hope that we might
raise the quality of discussion. I don't want to spoil your enjoyment or
dampen your enthusiasm, and I don't want ET to sink in a morass of
solemnity. But then, how can you tell someone who watches Steven Segal
movies with his Sister to "lighten up"?

	This is my position: I hold commentators responsible for their
comments where they touch upon matters of my direct interest, involvement
and experience.  Where the comments are nasty, unkind and deliberately
rude, nominally based on fact or reasoned conclusion, I may respond
directly and ask the commentator to address their seeming logic.  My hunch
is we'll discover several recurrent / standard assumptions which are, in my
view, dishonest, unreasonable and deliberately manipulative; and that many
of the opinions which we attribute to our artists are actually our
own. Where the comments are flattering, generous and overly considerate
(read obsequious), or have the aroma of herbal restorative, I may respond
directly as well. Like, what do you mean by "genius"?

	Everything we do generates repercussions. Sooner or later, near or
far, we are asked to address those repercussions.

	Or so it seems to me.

	We have different degrees and kinds of interest in King
Crimson. Most of the functional and factual questions have already been
answered, somewhere, in the past 27 years and often in ET.

	A suggestion: volunteers to collate a data bank of information on
various topics. Then, if anyone is in doubt about the repercussions of
confronting a judge resulting from one's inability to tell the age of young
people and a love of confectionary, just scroll through to "Lyrics: Easy
Money / Variant I(b)ii".  The collected Gig Reviews form an impressive body
of direct criticism / commentary on KC (and its enthusiasts) in action.

	Second suggestion: the ongoing debate on the audience / performer
relationship is building up a goodly amount of considered
contributions. Who might be able to collate, and summarise, these two (with
or without standard questionaire)?


	Robert Fripp.

Date: 05 Feb 97 12:10:01 EST
From: Discipline Global Mobile <73064 dot 1470 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: Quick responses to  ET 336
Tuesday 4th. February, 1997.

Dear Team,

	Quick responses to  ET 336 ...


Date: Mon 27 Jan 1997 14:27:26 -0500
From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com>
Subject: Crimson Connections

Can anyone find a link between legendary singer Tom Jones and King Crimson?
... Thus from Tom Jones to KC in six easy steps.

RF:	Come on Sidney - you can do better than this!

	Tom Jones recorded at Decca's studios in West End Lane. His
engineer (and Engelbert Humperdinck's) was Bill Price. Bill was the
engineer for "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp".

	So: Tom Jones > Bill Price > GG & F > King Crimson.

Sid: In Wrong Movements (the excellent hisory of Robert Wyatt by Mike King)
Bassist Bill MacCormack remembers the Fripp produced sessions for Matching
Moles Little Red Record. " Having Robert Fripp as the producer was an
absolute disaster, if only for the reason he reduced Phil Miller ( Moles
guitarist) to a quivering wreck so that he could barely move his

RF: Often interviewers, writers, journalists ask me questions about the
famous people I've worked for / with; e.g. biographies of Bowie and
Gabriel. I decline to comment, on the grounds that these relationships
while professional are also inevitably personal, and include private
moments. So, although I wouldn't like to change anyone's opinion of me a
towering and terrorising presence, there were other dimensions to the
production of that record which even someone as near to the vinyl as Bill
might not have seen. These were discussed between Robert Wyatt (a wonderful
spirit) and myself at the time, and are inappropriate for discussion here.

	If we are going to make reasoned and reasonable judgements of an
event, we have to know all the circumstances relevant to the time, place
and persons.  This is not the only way we arrive at or come to conclusions,
knowings, or judgements: some are direct, and penetrate the nature of a
situation. In Guitar Craft they are called "Points of Seeing". In the same
way that when a performance gets up and flies, normal time changes or even
stops, so with a point of seeing: its nature is creative, the perception is
non-sequential, it is direct and takes place in a flash. These "quality
knowings" or experiences become the basis for our judging or assessing the
rest of our mundane lives.

	Yes! says Sid. Thank you, Sid.

Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:35:34 -0500
From: rhino at indy dot net (rhino)
Subject: Fripp's methods in ET332

Hi Rhino!

	But don't forget the practical: I was writing in the letter by hand
(now I have the current ETs on disk) and abbreviation was the order of the
day. The concision also served clarity of argument.

Cheers,  Phaedrus.


From: "Ott, John" <John_Ott at ATK dot COM>
Subject: Uk project
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:52:28 -0600

>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 00:32:04 -0400
From: Andre Godin <eag3374 at UMoncton dot ca>
Subject: U.K.

J.O. First a question. Does anyone know what became of the U.K. project
that was suppose to feature Wetton, Jobson, Fripp and an occasional

RF: I was never involved in this. While Crimson were playing at the
Longacre in New York Eddie and John asked me to play a session for the
album. I declined: working a week on Broadway with Crimson was already just
a little bit more than I could uncomfortably yet honourably handle, already
towards the end of a tour.

	John came to DGM World Central recently and I contributed several
bars of melody and a little soundscaping to a ballad on his new album.


Date: 27 Jan 97 18:59:52 EST
From: Keith Smillie <100650 dot 236 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: Mellotronics

KS: There was an article in the UK newspaper The Observer about the

RF: Les Bradley, one of the two brothers that originated the beast, was
buried in Birmingham last Friday.

KS: ... Robert Fripp has five.

RF: Two double manuals from the earliest Crimson days (one was destroyed in
Chicago in 1969, one was sold to Genesis in early 1970) and three single
manuals including those used in 1972-74.

KS: No flute in the world sounds like a Mellotron flute. You play "Happy
Birthday" and it makes you want to cry.

RF: You play anything else and it makes you want to weep.

KS: You have to fight with a Mellotron!

RF: And then you die.


Date: 27 Jan 97 19:15:38 EST
From: "Neil J. Cavanagh" <76111 dot 3636 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: or so it seems to me (NetSaga part 38473367)

NJC: ... The presence of Robert Fripp in this forum, be it temporary or
permanent, ... invites more careful consideration and reflection to the

RF: Why?

NJC: The exchange regarding performer/audience relationships points out
many contradictions to me. It's likely useful for a reader to separate and
define the words: *responsibilities, expectations, and hopes*. All three
relate to the problem, but each has a different meaning.

RF: I agree.

NJC: I don't personally know Robert Fripp, but yet I view (what I hear of)
his actions onstage and off as completely appropriate behavior.

RF: Hey, you're beginning to persuade me too.

NJC: I don't think I am alone in that viewpoint.

RF: Have you checked in with Matt the Three-Headed Beast lately? Or Randall
Powell, the former naive fool?

NJC: Sometimes a smile is an illusion, sometimes a smile keeps an illusion

RF: Wow. That's profound.

NJC: I see a lot of energy wasted in myself and others with our personal
opinions and expectations.

RF: Yes! That is exactly and precisely accurate.

NJC: Related to all this in some ways is Martin Scorsese's "The King of
Comedy" film (1983) with Robert DeNiro and Jerry Lewis. Go and rent this if
you can, even Mr. Fripp may appreciate it; I think there's something to it.

RF: I'd rather see the new Steven Segal with my Sister. Van Damme ain't
quite doing it to me lately - my sister even told me not to bother with the
last one.


Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:45:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Cervero <rob at popper dot ced dot berkeley dot edu>
Subject: KC boots -- continuing saga

RC: Crimson bootlegs have always been a touchy issue, especially in these
cyberpages, in no small part because Mr. Fripp himself has been so
outspoken against them.

RF: Too true.

RC: I find contradictions in Fripp's views and attitudes about live
audience recordings and bootlegs.

RF: Firstly, you don't show and develop what those contradictions are, to
my satisfaction anyway.

	Secondly, you would rather not agree with my views in any case.

	Thirdly, my views are now more developed, and sophisticated, than
those expressed in the Musician article of some 17 years ago. My main
concern with bootlegging has not been discussed in ET (only briefly touched
upon). And no-one has even mentioned my secondary concern (see below). The
financial aspect is not the key issue for me.

RC: Moreover, the recent flood of Crimson bootleg CDs, mainly from Japan,
underscore the tremendous pent-up and largely unmet demand for Crimson live
materials. Robert/DMG/Possible Productions should take serious notice to
what's going on in the way of new unauthorized Crimson releases, and get
some good stuff out, and soon!

RF: Firstly, I / we do, at least to some extent.

	Secondly, I thought (on the basis of commentary in ET) that the
feeble flow of KC releases such as it is, live and otherwise, was in itself
evidence of my greed and status as "economic LeStat".

	Thirdly, you don't take into account the differing expectations for
bootleg bootlegs and "official bootlegs". Consider the reaction to
"Earthbound", even the KC video "Live In Japan 1995". Buy / trade a manquy,
pathetic, distorted recording of Crimson in a wind-tunnel and your low
expectations are fully met. If DGM released the same, there'd be uproar in
ET. And I would feel ashamed. David and Hugh would give me a hard time for
allowing a dud release.  Diane would be disappointed. Gill would avoid
looking me in the eyes. Beaton Bunnerius Bun, celebrity rabbit, would spray
my foot.

	Fourthly, "good stuff" doesn't happen by accident. "Epitaph" has
taken up nearly three months of DGM time and attention. But then, it sets
standards for historic releases of archival / bootleg material. Commercial
bootleggers with the same material as we hold in the archives frequently
sell a fairly dodgy product with cheap packaging, at least by our
standards. And the descriptive information / credits shows the level of
care involved. (I accept there are exceptions).

RC: First to the matter of Fripp's contradiction... The contradiction,
however, lies in the fact that Fripp himself has many times boasted ...

RF: No boast: a statement of fact ...

RC: ... that King Crimson live performances are and have always been
superior to their studio work (which I concur with).

RF the Pedant: "With which I concur". And always is a long time.

RC: In the Frame by Frame booklet, Fripp writes:

        `Studio and live are two worlds.  Would you, the audience, prefer
to have a love letter or a hot date?  Each have their value. Crimson were
always the band for a hot date. From time to time they could write a love
letter too, but for me they were better in the clinches'.

	Is this a tease or what?

RF: No tease. I'm suggesting that you go and hear Crimson live.

	A recent commentator asked: then why record? I don't consider this
a very well considered question. You might as well ask a good studio band:
Why bother playing live?

	I'd rather hold my wife, but I love her letters. They reveal and
develop a different aspect of our intimacy which then enhances our time
together. Our clinches are more all-embracing than our letters, but I'd be
bereft if my wife stopped writing to me because she prefers holding me.

	A good studio band should improve in live performance, and a good
live band's recording might even get better. Both aspects feed the other.

RC: Here's Robert telling us on the one hand nothing could top live
Crimson, and then scolding die-hard fans for trying to capture live Crimson
for personal pleasure and prosperity sake. (RF the Pedant II interjection:
Surely "posterity"?)

RF: You can't capture Crimson, or anyone else, live (for either prosperity
or posterity). We can't capture life: we live it, in the moment. That's all
there is. This is something like the different natures of a literate and
oral / aural society. Both have their value, both are very different ways
of experiencing, perceiving and living.

	If we try to capture the moment, the moment escapes us. This is a
key principle. When we are present in the moment, our experience of time
changes.  Then, our experience of the event changes. Then, the event itself
changes in response to us. Then something changes in us in response to the
event. That's take-off. Then, we wonder that life is not like this all the
time! How we could not live like this always! Then, we fall to earth. Then,
we wonder how we can get back to Paradise again.

	Perhaps when we go to shows we feel pretty helpless to contribute,
or participate, or affect what is happening. Yes and no. The outcome of any
performance is subject to the quality, quantity and intensity of energies
available to the performance. The concern of the performer is how to
realise the potential within the event. This is by:

1. Defining / delineating the boundaries of the performance: that is,
containment. This increases the intensity of the event.

2. Raising the quality of attention (or presence) available;

3. Increasing the quantity of energy to take-off point.

	<An analogy: boiling water. To boil water you contain the water
within a kettle. Then you change the nature / quality of the fuel available
(e.g. gas) into heat. Then, you turn up the gas (increase the quantity of
the quality) to bring the water to boiling point. If you use an open
saucepan, a lot of the water is dispersed (wasted) in steam. If you use a
candle, you'll never reach the critical heat either. And if you hold a
handful of matches under the open saucepan, you might have the right to
boil the water - hey! you paid for it with hard-earned pay and struck the
matches politely - but you probably won't be making tea for me>.

	Good natural performers have an instinctual sense of the dynamics
of performance: how to tweak the expectations of a crowd so their attention
becomes engaged; once engaged, their attention is directed and encouraged;
once encouraged is increased; once increased, the performance takes
off. Then, the crowd is transformed into an audience. Then, the audience
listens to the music; then, perhaps the music is heard. Then ... life
begins again!

	Other performers, perhaps less naturally gifted, may nevertheless
be sensitive to the energies involved. It is quite possible to sense the
"envelope" of energy surrounding, containing, protecting the
performance. Some people can even see it: something like an aura writ
large. Probably, most ET contributors have experienced this and would be
able to describe it, in their own form of words, if they examined their
experience of their most moving / powerful / intense performances (some of
which they may not have "liked" at all).

	Where the envelope is punctured, the event doesn't properly come to
life.  Or perhaps, the "life" of the event isn't properly conceived. The
audience and performer don't quite "spark" each other. When the
relationship between audience and performer does come together, as if
tangibly, the performance may become an event and acquire a life of its
own. Sound becomes transformed into music, and the music is "born".

	Our experience of shows like this can have an utterly revolutionary
and transformational effect in our lives: an eternal moment within our
experience is not likely to be forgotten. At a certain level of
"transformational intensity", some shows acquire a resonance in their
society and community, like Woodstock.

	If I bring my attention and presence to bear in a concert, as an
solitary individual I might not be able to plug a puncture, or punctures,
caused by an inattentive or dispersed audience (= crowd). But I might just
equilibrate and balance out a noisy drunk; or balance out a series of
disruptive camera flashes; or the constant motion of the man next to me
whose lease on four beers is up for renewal.

	But if I place a demand on the moment, I am not in the moment which
is available to me now: I am in the moment I want / demand / expect /
imagine.  Outside the moment, I deprive it of part of its possibility. If I
sacrifice what I want, what I know, what I like, if I give up my
guarantees, something else becomes available: something "real" (whatever we
might understand by that). I may not like or dislike it, but it's
real. "Real" has a different flavour: clean, straightforward, transparent -
it is what it is, not what we think it is.

	If we sleep through the moment, we don't contribute much to it but
we probably don't much disturb it either. If we deliberately put our
attention outside the moment of the show, we create a puncture. Intensity
escapes. If there are enough punctures, the show may be professional, even
exciting - but not transformational. Agents of the Puncture Pin:
expectation; reification of the intangible by putting a microphone on it;
constructing my wheelchair so that it records in digital stereo; ducking my
video camera into a bag every time a security man walks by; a personal
state modified by chemicals or ingestives which put me in a different time
and place.

	Anything which disturbs the flow of the energy field will cause
repercussions. Like all of the above, plus constant movement among the
crowd so that it never quite coheres into an audience. A crowd is plural,
an audience singular. Repeated disturbances unsettle a performance. Beyond
a point, when it loses its intensity, this show simply won't boil.

	If we are not in the present, we can't direct the future. Or to put
it differently, we do direct the future but it's not a future we'd hope to
see.  Guitar Craft aphorism: The future is what the present can bear. Blake
said it quicker: "He who catches joy as it flies lives in Eternity's
sunrise. He who doth bind to himself a joy, doth the winged life destroy"

	If, friendly and supportive ET reader, you are prepared to accept
that for me this is true (regardless of your own persuasion, feelings, and
rights as consumer) perhaps you are prepared to accept the pain I feel when
anything nails the event to the earth: like bootlegging, like photography,
like unrestrained substance ingestation (to coin a phrase).

	I accept not everyone is prepared or likely to share my views on
this, but there are now a large number of people with a Guitar Craft
background, open minded or formally sceptical of my views, who have
experienced for themselves how easy it is to damage the web of energies
which hold together the fabric of a performance.

	There are subtleties involved in performance, but they are also
open to practical study, application and testing. Much of the Guitar Craft
training takes place in performance, with students as both performers and
as audience.  This takes place both outside and inside the professional
world of performance; between the two there is are worlds of difference.

	Readers might suggest that a rock concert just ain't the place for
subtlety. My own view is both yes and no. Potential remains, particularly
for each new generation of listener. Lennon was a poet for one generation,
Cobain for another.

	There are other issues involved in bootlegging. Most of my supposed
views (presented on my behalf) in ET misrepresent them.

	If we accept the analogy of a marriage / relationship / hot date /
love letter relationship between audience and performer, what views do we
take on groping and date rape? Most of the KC enthusiasts are, I suggest,
well aware of my views on bootlegging (however much the booters might
disregard them, misrepresent them, and seek to expose "contradictions" in
them). The point is, many of the tapes in circulation have been recorded
knowingly against my expressed, declared, and well-publicised objection,
even displayed requests to refrain.

	So, this is an open question for the readership, as I kick the wasp
nest of "Bootlegging Theory: A Deconstructionist Approach To

	What view do we take of a non-consensual act?

	And now an offer: if any readers have prime boots (of KC and / or
Fripp related) which make the spine tingle, or viscerally activate any
other parts of their anatomy, send them to DGM World Central. We'll make a
transfer to our archives and then return the tape to you. No prosecutions
will follow. I shall not spit on your foot (either of them). If we are
convinced by the music, we'll make it available, whether on general release
or by mail order, when time permits.

	To those of careless thinking procedures: this is not
contradiction. If you claim that is, please present your arguments very
carefully. Otherwise I probably shall spit on your feet (both of them).

	Meanwhile, "Non-consensual Acts - The Way Forward?" and get your
hot boots in the post!


	Robert Fripp.

Date: 05 Feb 97 12:10:13 EST
From: Discipline Global Mobile <73064 dot 1470 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: Crimso the Great Playback and update
Monday, February 3, 1997

Subjects:	Crimso the Great Playback and update:
		Epitaph Box Set

Dear Team,

	Volumes 3 & 4 of Epitaph are being sold from DGM by mail order
only.  Currently, DGM Mail Order is established and working well from DGMWC
(that means "World Central"), not yet established in the US, (where Mark at
Possible Productions is independent of DGM), and for Japan we have no
definite plans right now.

	We anticipate a huge demand for the Box, with and without Volumes 3
& 4, and are concerned to process all the orders for our pre-release mail
out on Monday March 17th, two days after the London playback. This
coincides with the release in Japan which traditionally releases ahead of
the West (to beat cheaper US imports).

	All of us here, David, Diane, Hugh, Gill and Robert, have met and
discussed how best to deal with this. Please remember, we are a very small

	We are immediately accepting as of now (13.00 GMT) mail orders from
around the world for the complete 4 CD set, here at World Central.  (When
America comes on line, we'll transfer US orders there). We shall have the
completed Box here by early March which gives us two weeks to pack and
address orders, ready to mail out on our pre-release date.  (Note to our
U.S. customers: It will be less expensive to wait and buy your CD's from
America when they become available (approximately April 15).  But, if you
just can't wait, we will send them from the UK.)

	For those who are coming to the Crimso Playback on March 15th. in
London, we shall bring your order with us.  When you present your
invitation at the table with your name and order, we shall hand you the

	Later this week we are sending out DGM Newsletter No.1 to our mail
order customers. This issue features Fripp interviewing Fripp on "Is
Discipline a real record company, or just a vanity label?" and other
equally impressive dopey questions.  Fripp also makes a lugubrious attempt
to explain how the future of DGM is governed by the success of its mail
order.  His answers are hindered by the feebleness of the interviewer.

	Any orders made from the DGM catalogue, of whatever, by those
attending the Playback will be taken to London ready for collection. At the
Playback we shall also have a table for those who have not pre-paid or
ordered, but the selection will be more limited and we hope to reduce the
inconvenience of a queue and waiting time.

	The Playback is fast becoming an event, to judge by first
responses. This includes several intercontinental flights. If the numbers
continue to increase, we plan to open the door (to wherever it might be) at
13.00 for a playback / presentation beginning at 15.00. The intention is to
make any expressed interest in the DGM goodies on the table, an interest
accompanied by credit cards and cash, and the collection of orders, a
civilised happening.

	DGM is arranging for the provision of tea and coffee.  DGM, as a
company, doesn't do business lunches or expensive dinners: we do afternoon
tea and cake. And morning tea/coffee and cake.  Would anyone attending like
to bring a cake, or chewable similarity (Japanese bean cakes, for example)?
In backstage Crimspeak a delightful cake is referred to as a "Beast of
Terror."  Depending upon the cake's degree of wonderfulness, some are also
called "a savage little Beast of Terror, Joy and Wonderment". I'm sure you
get the point.  This is not compulsory, but we shall provide a table for
the little Beasts to be placed upon and sampled by the team attending.

	Draft schedule for now:

	13:00		Door opens
	15.00		Playback / presentation of Epitaph
	17.30		(approx.) break / open time for mingling, eating
outside the playback space, stretching legs
	19.30		available in response to the event; e.g. Q & A.

	Meanwhile, back to mail order:  we are currently accepting orders, from
anywhere in the  world, here at DGM World Central, for the 4CD Box set EPITAPH.






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From: bullj1 at westatpo dot westat dot com
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 97 15:32:06 EDT
Subject: NST string gauges tangent
     For acoustic (steelstring) guitar:
     G-1st .011  E-2nd .013  A-3rd .022w  D-4th .032w  G-5th .047w  C-6th
     Kaman/Ovation makes a set but I prefer the ones from John Pearse
     (Breezy Ridge Instruments  Center Valley  PA  18034).  Even with the
     special set, you still need to be careful when bringing them up to
     full tension.

     Joan Bull     Rockville MD     bullj1 at westat dot com

Subject: Live In Japan
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 97 16:46:53 -0500
From: Dave Anastasi <daanasta at student dot berklee dot edu>
Fellow ETers:

I got the "King Crimson: Live in Japan" video, and I was surprised when I
watched it, because it was the same recording as the one found on "The
Double Trio" CD which was released at least a year earlier than the
Video.  Both are incredible.  The CD doesn't include "Three of a Perfect
Pair", "Matte Kudasi", "THRAK", "People", and a couple of others, my
guess, due to time restrictions.  For those who don't have the CD or the
video, get them BOTH!  Highly recommended.


Subject: A question to Fripp...
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 12:14:31 +0100
From: L-J Teitelbaum <ljt at club-internet dot fr>
Hi Crimsons-lovers,

RF has asked us what were our relations with him. Several people have
answered, and I wont waste time pointing again what has already been
said. But let's reverse the question :

How does HE feel towards "us" ?
What does he think he must do to establish a good fan-musician relation ?
What does the musician expect of the fan ?

Looking forward to hear a response from Robert to these questions...


Mike Stok