Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #331 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 331 Thursday, 23 January 1997 SPECIAL ISSUE Replies from ETers to Robert Fripp's post in ET#328 (part two) ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk TO UNSUBCRIBE, OR TO CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: "Mike Lockyer" Subject: Re : From RF Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:37:28 -0000 No doubt Toby will be overwhelmed with responses to RF's request but he asked so he is my little contribution : ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? to get an honest "best effort" from the group iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / enthusiast / fan? to listen and make the effort to understand and to appreciate that if you don't like something personally that does not mean it is "bad" music iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists? Generally I "expect" very little but hope for an honest best effort - I have come to expect a bit more from KC and RF though - that is to stretch my appreciation beyond its present state I expect to have to take time to "get into" your music and that the music will get better the more I listen to it v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? From you I expect to be : surprised, stretched, uplifted I have no right to expect this of you but I have learnt that that is what you deliver I hope that you keep playing and composing as your music does make a positive difference to my life Best wishes Mike ================================= Mike Lockyer,University of Teesside ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:38:34 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: My comments on Fripp's 'Tude One more comment in what I am sure will be a torrent....... Actually, I am not sure how I feel having bandmembers read ET: this is bound to induce some self-conciousness and editing on the parts of those who write. It is natural for us who listen to want to earn approval (or attempt to show it's not necessary) from bandmembers, in either case an interference with fully honest communication. At the same time, however, if ever there were a band that has not played on these universal feelings (and should be able to interact with "fans"), its KC (both individually and corporately). So I guess I should say "HELLO", and "WELCOME". As for the "rights", etc, of an audience, I am not so sure that should/can/does extend to what is said on the NET. On the NET such players (and their shanangins) may be looked at as pose-able action figures, useful and fun for stirring up controversy and CAPS!!!!!!!! I guess the normal human response to removed, exalted celebrities is not the same as a response to actual human beings. I, for one, would not normally feel comfortable expressing my deeper feelings in such a forum. Indeed, despite my criticism of Fripp in particular (who, let's face it, is easy and fun to criticise!), on a deeper level I have tremendous respect for what he has done, both artistically, and in terms of conquering some tremendous fear and cynacism which I have seen my father (also a highly accomplished musician) succumb to. I actually read Fripp's liner notes to my father from time to time, which he listens to with great fascination mixed with scepticism (as a "rock guy", Fripp should have been a willing tool in the hand of producers and PR people, otherwise why play electric rock?). Needless to say, such feeling are mixed and deep, and I would hope that it is understood that only so much can be said by us mere mortals in a public setting such as ET. As for my "rights" as a listener to a live performance (which is very different to listening to a recording), I do know one thing. I have the right to ask that a performer 'be there', both in body and in spirit. What this means (that a performer 'be there'), or how it should be expressed (or IF it should), I am not prepared to say in any brief way (and i have been talkative enough). -Emory. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:58:00 -0500 From: Datboy Subject: ET: My response to Robert Fripp >3. Would ET readers be kind enough to consider, and respond, to these >questions: > >i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast >/ fan and the musician? I believe they are two completely separate entities. Neither has an obligation to the other in any way. Of course the music industry would try to convince you otherwise. The only obligation the two entities have are to themselves. >ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? They have the right to respond to the musician's work as they wish. This does not, however, give them the right to attack the musician personally when the musician starts exploring realms unfamiliar to them. The best example I can think of that everyone on the list may identify with is the controversy over the modifications on the Frame By Frame box. The audience does *not* have the right to attack Mr. Fripp because those changes were made, but the performer has every right to make those changes. The other chief right that the a/e/f has is to simply ignore the current phase of the musician's work and wait for the next one. >iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / >enthusiast / fan? I see the responsibilites of the a/e/f as applying to all music in general, not to one performer. Basically, you have an obligation (if you don't wish to stagnate) to find something in any music that you hear that you like, and will make that music enjoyable for you. It is your responsibility to get in step with the musician before you make up your mind whether you like what he's doing or not. And what you're deciding is whether you like it, not whether he's a good or bad musician because you couldn't get into what he was doing. I learned this the hard way -- once, I was really snobby toward all music that wasn't groundbreaking -- if I couldn't pick out something I'd never heard before in it, I simply hated it, and refused to listen to it. But I was in a situation where I was forced to listen to dance music (previously a favorite target). I found myself listening for things other than the ones I'd expected music to have that were missing in it, and I found them. It opened up a completely new world for me, and showed me not to dismiss something solely on what I expected out of it. And after trying to figure out why this happened, I learned that my expectation was my problem. It isn't terribly hard to find interesting music once you get used to listening this way. In my case it might be a clever chord sequence, or the sound of the singer's voice, or an interesting drum pattern, or the effect put on the guitar, etc. I generally find something in most records that I can latch onto and listen for. Nowadays the only music I actively turn off is the stuff that is completely overplayed on the radio. This does not mean that all music is absolutely wonderful. What this does mean is that in my world: Edith Piaf rocks just as hard as King Crimson, who rock just as hard as Napalm Death, who rock just as hard as Patsy Cline, who rocks just as hard as Bartok, who rocks just as hard as Merzbow, who rocks just as hard as Sun Ra, who rocks just as hard as The Orb, because all of these sounds are hypnotic enough to me for extended repeated listenings. >iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your >artists? It is highly presumptous for me to expect anything from them. However, I am more likely to keep following them for a long term if they consistently switch musical direction. I want to be surprised by my favorite musicians. >v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of >Robert Fripp? I expect nothing of him other than what he's going to do. It's simply not for me to say. I will try my best to keep up with him, though. >I don't see how anyone would want to read >it all for fun. I think that the fans who do have this morbid fascination with seeing someone slagged, or at the bottom of their existence. I also think rock journalism places too much emphasis on musicology. Does it really matter if the singer from Stone Temple Pilots keeps going into rehab? >In all the comments on "Fripp's 'tude" I don't recall anyone commenting >that my onstage and offstage behaviour might simply be practical, and in >some way serving my aim. Also, that this is itself part of an ongoing >exploration and learning curve for me of how I do what I do. To me, this is a given, partially because I make my own music. I prepare it down to having a decent recording of it, and then I make more. It is never to be for sale. Why? I don't wish to subject myself to this sort of scrutiny. I find myself having to defend that with regularity, and my response is that it serves my aim. I would hope that a musician with personal integrity would feel the same way. What works best for Fripp works best for Fripp, even if it seems outlandish to some of us. >If any commentator did burble and banter about that one, the first question >is probably "What is Fripp's aim?" before moving to how this eccentric / >standoffish / egotistical / rude / kind / brilliant Englishman's behaviour >might serve that aim. Do we have to know what the aim is? Does it enhance our enjoyment of the music? I'm not so sure. ------------------------------ From: Dave_Depper at bendnet dot com (Dave Depper) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:49:38 -0800 Subject: Reply to Fripp Organization: http://www.bendnet.com Dear Robert Fripp, Here is a reply to your query as you requested. i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast / fan and the musician? The relationship is of producer and consumer. However, the consumer can influence the producer in the case of music... it can be conscious or unconscious (if the performer is weak of will). The two support each other. The consumer supports the producer in a more tangible way, but the producer supports the consumer in a more meaningful way. ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? The enthusiast has a right to voice his/her opinion. That is all. iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / enthusiast / fan? The obligations of the enthusiast are to support the artist if it pleases them so... in the case of Fripp it is most likely that it will indeed please them. They are obligated to share the music of the performer with others. They are obligated to voice their opinion. They are obligated to respect the artist if his/her motives are well-intended (however misguided). iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists? I personally expect my artists to be thankful for my and others' support. I expect them to make music for the artistic value, not for the paycheck. I expect them to continue producing music. I expect them to take the audience into consideration. v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? I expect you, Robert Fripp, to continue doing exactly as you are doing, as you clearly are working on achieving the aim, whatever that may be, and your actions are admirable. I expect you to keep producing fine music solo, with KC, LoG, Sunday All Over the World, or otherwise. I expect you to keep your fans in line (which you are doing a commendable job of). I expect you to continue gracing us, the lucky fans of KC, with your wisdom. I hope that this is satisfactory (but if not, I do not care... I am the artist here, and my intentions were good). Most sincerely, Dave Depper, your biggest sixteen year old fan. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:46:11 +0000 From: Orn Orrason Organization: Systems Engineering Laboratory Subject: Re: [ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is: answers to RF questions] Here are my answers to RFs questions: 3. Would ET readers be kind enough to consider, and respond, to these questions: SURE i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast/ fan and the musician? THEY EITHER ADORE THE MUSICIAN AS GOD OR HIS MUSIC AS OUT OF THIS WORLD. IN YOUR CASE BOTH VERSIONS EXIST. ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? THAT THER MUSICIAN PLAYS HIS MUSIC AS GOOD AS HE CAN, OR SHOULD WE SAY PLAY MUSIC JUST FOR MUSICS SAKE. iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / enthusiast / fan? SHUT THEIR MOUTH DURING PLAY. THEY MIGHT ALSO SEPERATE THE PERSON OF THE MUSICIAN FROM THE MUSIC BUT THE MUSIC IS ALWAYS TIED TO THE PERSON. SORRY FRIPP, THIS WILL NOT CHANGE EASELY. iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists? THAT HE CAN BE SEEN. v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? AS ABOVE. GUITAR PLAYING THAT EXPANDS YOUR MIND. TO BE IN FRONT OF=20 OTHERS WITH REGARD TO PROGRESS IN MUSIC. BURNING GUITARS. BEUTIFUL MELODIES THAT TOUCH YOUR HEART. BAND LEADER A LA DUKE ELLINGTON. TO BE SOMETHING UNDEFINED. I LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE DIFFERENT AND BESIDES A VERY COMPETETIVE PLAYER (almost worlds best) -- ORN ORRASON University of Iceland Systems Engineering Lab VR III, Hjardarhagi 2-6,107 Reykjavik Tel 525 4699 (UI), (2nd) 589 9111 (PTI) Fax 525 4937 (UI) (Prefix for Iceland = +354) E-mail: ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is: Web: http://smyrill.kerfi.hi.is/~ossi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:20:22 -0500 From: Ken Mistove Subject: Answers to Fripp I anticipate that the response to Robert Fripp's ET posting will be varied as well as numerous. I have choosen to become one of the masses and respond to Robert. I am compeled to write because by coincedence, I have been thinking about similar questions in relation to my own work as a musician. What follows are my own thoughts and opinions. I will try to make my comments as brief as possible. That being said, there is much more I do feel and can talk about on all the following. Perhaps another time or place. i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast / fan and the musician? The relationship is two sided. When it is positive and contains respect both sides can benefit. When it's negative and self-centered, it can be destructive to both. First the positive: The two can exist alone, but by coming together mutual growth on many levels can be obtained. Examples - the musician can feel admiration, can earn money, can recieve criticism - the a/e/f can hear something new, can enjoy a gathering of peers, can gain inspiration. Now the negative: The musician can alienate the audience, can become stagnate on their instrument, can only be in it for the money. The a/e/f attends a show just to "party", the a/e/f doesn't support the musician (bootlegs, taping of CD's), the a/e/f spreads rumour and innuendo (critics?). ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? I don't feel that the a/e/f has any rights with regard to the musician. With rights would come expectation. I will cover more in question iv. iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / enthusiast / fan? The a/e/f should have respect for the musicians and the music. The a/e/f could become what I call an active listener. Try to remove all rememberance of previous listenings and try to experience the music of the moment. Don't expect or be disappointed if solos are not "just like the recording". Listen to what is happening now and try to follow the musicians. I have heard KC live many times and am always surprised by where I've been taken by a performance. The a/e/f should also respect other a/e/f's. I am personally annoyed by screams during quiet passages at concerts, by having smoke blown in my face at a show, and by having some inebriated person deposit their lunch on my shoes. iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists? Personally, I expect nothing. You can't expect any creative person to deliver "product". The serious artists I know work hard. It sometimes takes a lot of guts to release something into the public's reach. When an artist does give something to the a/e/f, it should be considered a gift. I have a feeling the phrase most musicians hate is "when's your next recording coming out". As a/e/f's we should be patient. There are however certain "rights" that I feel most a/e/f's expect. 1. New material. 2. Live performance. 3. Some kind of contact, either direct or indirect (as in this posting). 4. Growth. The above are what I would call common courtesies given by the artist. To expect these, the a/e/f is set up for disappointment. v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? Personally, again I expect nothing. What I have witnessed is honesty, dedication to craft, and when you not looking - a great sense of humor. What I have gained from Robert Fripp are I hope, a more opened mind, ears and heart. Thank you Robert. Ken Mistove ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 18:59:27 From: drj_saro Subject: RE: Elephant Talk Digest #328 >3. Would ET readers be kind enough to consider, and respond, to these >questions: in the context of the rest of your message, i think that there is an obligation on our part to make at least an attempt. > >i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / > enthusiast/fan and the musician? in the best of all possible worlds, the relation would be symbiotic, with both parties gaining from the experience. however, oft-times it seems that the relationship is vampiric (for a picture of fan-as-vampire see Peter Hammill's song "Energy Vampires" on the album _The Future Now_ or his 'short story' "Audi" from the book _Killers, Angels, Reugees_)(for a picture of musician-as-vampire see the bank accounts of Michael Jackson or Madonna) > >ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? the flippant answer might be "to be entertained", but while it may be true in 'pop' music that isn't necessarily accurate in the case of more challenging music. perhaps it might be the right to _hope for_ (but by no means any guarantees!) some (words begin to fail and i grope...) spark, some connection, some ineffable something that does not exist in most people's day-to-day life. > >iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / >enthusiast / fan? to the artist, to _listen_! to others in the audience, simple common courtesy (for example, don't shout for 'Freebird' unless you are at a Lynerd Skynerd show; don't stand up or dance in front of me or otherwise obstruct my view and force me to stand when I _paid_ for a chair (and may not be _able_ to stand for 2 to 3 hours (_not_because of drunken-ness, but because of health concerns); don't shriek/whistle/howl/make other animal sounds during the quiet parts of a piece of music, they are there for a purpose; simply put, "don't be an ass".) > >iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of > your artists? to honestly pursue their muse. i may not always _like_ the result, but there is almost always something worth hearing in the process. whereas, in work that is produced with 'the Market' as the key focus, this is not usually the case (please note that there may be cases where i couldn't tell the difference, for better or worse!) > >v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect > of Robert Fripp? experimentation, not _just_ novelty. what i would _like_ is a fuller exploration of the Concept of the Double Trio, which to my ears has not yet been realized. > > Sincerely, > > Robert Fripp. > in passing, to give you a point of reference of where these answers are coming from...i am a 40-year old white male; i am a test engineer for a manufacturer of wireless computer communication devices; (while my formal education has been technical/scientific, i have taken steps to attempt to give myself a broad base of knowledge/information); i have been listening to what i still refer to as "progressive music" (including King Crimson) since 1972; my favourite period of KC is exemplified by the "Great Deceiver" Box Set; my favourite 'Frippertronics' is "A Blessing of Tears"; other musical artists which are important to me include (among many others) Van der Graaf Generator, National Health, Gentle Giant, John Surman, Stephen Micus, Last Exit, Sonny Sharrock, Steven Caudel, Robert Wyatt, and Peter Blegvad (not to mention Bryars, Nyman, Torke, Fitkin, Bach, Beethoven, Mahler, Susato, Praetorius, Kapsberger); i read science fiction (and fact), histories, mysteries, and philosophy; i watch bad movies and too much television. i am married to a woman, who, while her musical tastes are far-reaching, do not quite extend to KC. i am willing to share further information upon request. in closing, i would like to thank you for the music _and_ for your sincerity in this communication. My best wishes for health and happiness to you and yours. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:42:28 -0600 From: Brian Hill Organization: DecisionOne Subject: Response to RF's questions > i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / > enthusiast > / fan and the musician? At the most obvious level, the musician conceives, crafts or creates music. He or she may choose to publish a recording of the music and/or to perform the music, perhaps before a live audience. The audience perceives the music. The perceiver may or may not devote significant levels of attention to the music. The perceiver may respond to the music in any number of ways, including cognitive, emotional and physical responses. The perceiver's devotion (or not) of significant attention to the music may complete (or not) an act of communication between musician and audience. An enthusiast or fan pays significant attention to the music. The enthusiast or fan responds in a mostly positive way to the perception of the music. Examples of responses include patronizing the musician (buying recordings, tickets); complex emotional/physical responses such as laughter, tears, rapture; physical signs of appreciation such as applause. whistles, etc. A non-enthusiast may have the logical negative of these responses. The enthusiast may desire to acquire memorabilia which remind them of an experience. Memorabilia include printed and recorded matter, pictures or videos, clothing, etc. > ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? The audience has the right to perceive the music and to respond. A live audience member has a right to be reasonably unmolested in this endeavor, given the presence of many other audience members. This means that responses should be reasonably respectful of the muscian's and other audience member's rights. > iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / > enthusiast / fan? The enthusiast or fan enjoying the musician's work will patronize the work. He or she will give due consideration to the musician's work -- allowing that the musician is a fellow human being, and therefore, that the work is subject to the full range of human behavior (growth vs. stagnation, inspiration vs. rote). In a live event, the audience will prepare themselves so as to give the fullest possible level of attention to the music. > iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your > artists? > > v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of > Robert Fripp? I hope that the artist produces recorded output, and/or that he or she performs in public where I have a chance of attending. Given this situation, I do my best to satisfy my obligations of patronization, consideration, preparation and attention. I hope that there is some net positive from the musical experience. I do not expect the artist to participate in any other forms of communication with the audience/enthusiasts, or me in particular, other than the music. If this other communication is available, I may participate, to the extent that I can positively contribute to it or perceive some value in it. > 1. Harvey Keitel and Kevin Spacey should play Fripp in "King > Crimson: The > Movie", in alternating scenes. Who cares if anyone's confused? I would have thought more of mixture of Jean-Claude Van Damme and Rowan Atkinson (aka Mr. Bean), no? Sincere regards, Brian Hill brian dot hill at decisionone dot com Milwaukee, WI ------------------------------ From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: In Reply to RF's Query in ET#328 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:44:34 -0800 First off, it's great to see evidence that he's watching! But to the item at hand... i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast / fan and the musician? This is a tricky one, and unfortunately requires a lot of words. It would depend on the nature of the performance intended, and the actual aim of the Artist (as opposed to The Artist) in producing the work for performance. Is the music supposed to be danced to, listened intently to, or potentially 'ignored' in the Ambient sense? Like it or not, listeners, it's the urge of the Artist to create that starts all of this off, which leads eventually to the aspect of performance. If the Artist wishes to retain the original vision of the Work, as opposed to modifying it to suit the audience-at-hand, so be it. There's nothing 'wrong' with the Other, either, if what's intended is to have the audience participate. While the aspect of audience 'expectations' is a touchy one, I don't think it should be of much consideration when either composing the works, unless what's being planned is to cater to those expectations. Or pander, depending on your viewpoint. In any event it is necessary often to let club owners hear the same songs that were on the tape you gave them so you could play in their space in the first place. I think there is a happy medium that develops as one grows into the act of performing, between catering to the audience, and keeping one's artistic 'integrity' - and I believe that it can be as unique as each performance. Ultimately, as far as MY performance structure is concerned, I operate on a level of sticking to the originally-planned material, while keeping an antenna up as to the audience reactions to the work. But that's just for right now, and it's just me, right now. Such business I think must be fluid in order to not be monotonous to both performer and audience. So it comes back to the 'entertainment element'. What does the performer consider to be his role? and Does the audience appreciate it? I seek to entertain, but it is not the intention of the work, which exists on its own I hope. If it ceases to be feasible to perform the work, I'll come up with something else. If a potential audience 'likes' what I perform, then I guess it works for them. But it's not the ultimate aim of my performance, merely a pleasant benefit to me as performer. But then RF's written entire articles on this subject, yes? ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? To be able to view and listen without interruption or obstruction - though this is more often than not impossible, as there always seems to be 'one' person who cannot resist either letting out a 'wooooo!' during a silent part, or getting up and "dancing" in front of other people, occluding their view. Does it need to be pointed out that audience expectations are not the raison d'etre for performance? The Artist, however, needs to consider the audience that's perhaps paying him in either Time or Money or Attention. I try to think of it as a conversation between friends: that it is without connived structure, that there IS a give-and-take process, but within limits. iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / enthusiast / fan? First off, the audience/etc. has a responsibility to allow others to hear and see the performance given, since it's the performance that they came to see. If there's money involved, the audience/etc. deserves to get SOMETHING for the effort of turning out for the evening, hopefully associated with what they were led to believe would be presented to them. But not necessarily. I think people LIKE surprises in a performance, mostly, and will always try to come up with something to make them say "Oh! That was (fill in the adjective)." Just hearing that from someone telling a friend on the way out the door is often more than enough, and tells me I'm staying true to the Work. iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists? Well, I know what I like, but I try not to just stick to one thing. If I've got an expectation at all, it would be for the Artist to maintain a degree of variance in the work produced. Anything else is just "cookie cutter" material, and less Art than Manufacturing. v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? To continue playing and performing, both new and old work, if not also continuing to provide us with an example of an Artist With Integrity. ********************* By the way, if anyone out there still has the outline I wrote on The Nature Of Celebrity some months back, I'd appreciate either a posting of it or getting it via email. I've lost it somewhere in the migration to Internet Explorer from Netscape... Thanks in advance. Stephen Goodman * Download The Loop Of The Week and more! EarthLight Studios * http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Mark Fenkner" Subject: Fripp's aim Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:59:29 -0500 I have very much appreciated Mr. Fripp's letter to the Elephant Talk mailing list. It is rare to find anything relevant to my concerns in this mailing list. Mr. Fripp mentions having an aim, something that many of us are aware of. I have often wondered what Mr. Fripp's aim is, both his personal aim and his aim as a musician and a teacher. The value of this information is questionable; maybe it could help, maybe not. But since Mr. Fripp's work has provided me with much of the inspiration and many of the 'leads' to find my own aim, I feel that there is a genuine purpose for knowing this information. So, Mr. Fripp, if you ever do decide to write in again, please share with us you aim. And if at all possible, please also share with us the means used in attempting to obtain your aim. Have you had much success yet in your aim? Baraka-llah, Robert Fripp! Despite the dangers of music, your music and your example has lead me to a possible approach. Sincerely, Mark Fenkner ennea at net-gate dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 18:13:10 PST From: "Hoard, Chris" Subject: Team Questions: One Voice Ruminates - Part I of V It's a rare and potentially profound (running the risk of being meaningless) opportunity when a musician in particular invites his audience to interact in a written context -- Bravo Robert! >1. Harvey Keitel and Kevin Spacey should play Fripp in "King Crimson: The Movie", in alternating scenes. Who cares if anyone's confused? So the movie (bearing no resemblance to Fripp's on/off-stage character) is slated to treat Fripp with a Jeckyl vs. Hyde like approach? Although I'm know Dennis Hopper auditioned and was anxious to get the part, there's something brooding about Ralph Fiennes that could be applied to the Fripp persona (although he's too tall), but actually my pick would be Bob Hoskins (he'd have to lose a few pounds, though -- as Robert by all appearances has taken extremely good care of himself in this department). >2. Stop arguing about Fripp's attitude towards you, etc., and >acknowledge he's the greatest guitarist in the world. It's damn hard to believe Robert would encourage such wasteful bandwidth by sparking such a overly trodden debate among the unsuspecting -- here is direct evidence of a truly wicked intellect and cynic. It's not enough to merely provoke all those fused-out Towner/McLaughlin/ Holdsworth /Gismonti devotees -- but I'm shocked that Robert would be bold enough to make such a statement in light of the luminous contributions of Green Day, U2's The Edge, or Ace Frehly of Kiss... >i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / >enthusiast / fan and the musician? Did anybody else notice this looks suspiciously like a college exam question? Has anybody here ever discussed in depth the possibility that Robert Fripp may be the most visible 20th century example of a great musician who happens to be a frustrated academic? Given that music, and particularly good music, is highly subjective in terms of its audience's perceptions and opinions, most of the answers we're encouraged to provide Robert with can hardly be impersonal, and must be subject to high subjectivity. Note that the question above also assumes there is likely a distinction between audience, enthusiast, and fan. Generally I agree. These three words in particular all have personal connotations for me. (1) Audience, of course is encompasses all who choose to listen to KC music, but it also includes that minority who have been persuaded or coerced into listening by the fan/enthusiast. In any case, excepting songs in the vein of "Walking On Air," or "Moon Child" all three terms necessarily exclude people like my wife. (2) I guess for me, the word fan emanates overtones of blind worship and often misguided but passionate loyalty, whereas (3) "enthusiast" has a more erudite ring to it. "Enthusiast" better fits the discipline/inspiration of serious, world class musicianship, and describes not only those who merely support a musical expedition spanning decades and endeavored by superb musicians, but those who actively participate in that journey by both documenting it, or debating its facets, or simply bearing witness, while remaining to a degree objective when contemplating its peaks and valleys. I can only speak for my idealized notion of (3) an enthusiast, because I was never coerced/persuaded to attend (15... 20?) KC or Fripp concert events. The fact I attended these events could indicate blind worship, but you'll have to take my word for it. It's true as an enthusiast KC has won my passionate loyalty -- won, but moreso earned it. So what is the "nature" of this relationship? I could only muster this answer as a summary: the nature of this relationship is that specific understanding, trust and commitment coupled with circumstance which allows musician with audience to experience music in all its varied forms. This relationship brings forth music only made possible by both the audience and performer. Nearly all "performances," intimate or produced on a grand scale would neither be witnessed or staged without an audience, paying or otherwise. Ideally this is a relationship that finds a balance between audience and performer, and it is one that implies multiple levels of give and take for both audience and performer. Robert Fripp often spoke about how the musician must wrestle with a rock audience's tendency to drive (and the musician's weakness to allow) this balance into something "vampyric." That is, the energy demanded from the performer, in terms of idyll worship or the pressure to recreate past successes, either drains out all remaining musical inspiration, or drives the musician to lead a live completely devoid of its assumed balance with society and nature -- causing performers to lose sight of their true personal needs (as opposed to imagined ones). The musician can certainly be the vampire as well, making money by the truckload, scattering shattered ear drums and broken hearts in their wake. On the other darker end of the spectrum, one could equate this relationship with the fattening-by-adoration of a domesticated animal--alive but eventually to bloated to stand up under its own weight, and ultimately unable to demonstrate any semblance of its original abilities. Musicians can fail and falter under the weight of an audience's adoration and their own inflated perception of their significance, just as they can soar between worlds, propelled by the focus of an audience's respect and attention. So the relationship with its inherent risks is one I think most ET readers consider more likely to reap the many rewards music brings to our spirits and our intellects. Another aspect of this relationship is that music performed by a select few is supported and experienced necessarily by a large audience -- and the more ambitious the musical production, the larger the audience must be to allow the music a presence given our society's economic circumstances. Thus the audience/performer relationship is integral when staged on a large scale, or with new, expensive technology, and economies with complex depedencies are established between musicians, audience, promoters, record companies, booking agents, and the instrument manufacturers. So the very relationship between audience and musician has in itself (often) some inherent dependencies and risks being tainted or at least affected by its economic circumstances, based on the economic rules and established business interests of those economic entities that both support and depend on musicians. The nature and dynamic of this relationship is myriad. Its something I often equate with marriage (the polygomous version anyway), and its offspring are ideas, thoughts, emotions, and rarely something greater in the guise of notes, harmonies, formulas, traditions, structure, rebellion. All this ideally results in very personal insights, emotional and intellectual dissonances and pleasures, and upon occasion, something approaching a collective consciousness. If you're still with me, the audience's version of this collective experience is an extension, spawned from that which occasionally arises from the presence of music within the group of musicians. Even being an enthusiast of KC, and having seen many shows, there are always fine musicians present, and for the most part an audience which respects the music; more often than not there has been a singular and rare musical presence in the minds of most who bear witness to it. My conclusion to the answer I offer for Fripp's first question is that the nuances in this relationship are many, and usually not obvious. In the best of musical circumstances I find it's a delicate relationship that demands caring and effort from all involved parties (especially the ushers), effort by the audience to sustain the quality of their listening, and effort by the musicians to both command the audience's attention with their skills, but more importantly to open themselves up to that source from where musical inspiration flows. Like any marriage, it requires cooperation in all matters spritual, financial, and trivial, devotion to the harmony and themes of its ancestors and the sponteneity and whims of its children, and flexible expectations always anchored in trust. --CH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:40:31 -0500 From: "Steven W. Sthole" Subject: thanks, observations, and a question First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who responded to me personally about my search for Van Der Graaf on CD. I make this a public thank-you because I was truly inundated with so many responses it became impossible to reply to each one, but also to point out the value of such exchanges in this forum. It was truly gratifying to receive my copy of 'Pawn Hearts' today and see the credit, 'Fripp: - Electric guitar' on the inside of the CD case. It also seems perhaps I may have started a small thread in relation to Peter Hammill. Good. Second, Mr. Fripp's (or was it really?) post in ET#328 posed some interesting questions. These questions made me think of the real reasons why ET readers post to ET in the first place, and why others respond to these posts in the way they do. For the sake of simplicity, I'll make the following gross generalizations: 1). ET readers/contributors are a). musicians or b). non-musicians c). and generally computer literate with d). varying degrees of appreciation for different incarnations of Crimson. Different degrees of emphasis on each of the above qualities contribute to the content of each contributors post. For example, a fair amount of quality a). mixed with an over-abundance of quality c). may produce posts containing keen insight into the workings of a band, but communication of these insights may be lost because of too many arcane internet references to trolls and other such nonsense ;-). . And so on. 2). ET contributions are generally a). about so-and-so's appreciation of Album A and/or b). his or her spouses' (or boss, or neighbor, etc..) lack of appreciation of same album and/or c). my or your attendance at The Crimson Concert to End All Crimson Concerts and/or d). someone's mentioning of another musical entity with(or without) links to Crimson and/or e). someone mentioning and/or complaining about the lack of substantial topics in this newsletter to discuss. As if what we say could really make a difference. And so it goes... 3). When a member of Crimson finally contributes his own post/opinion to ET, it's like a). the parting of the red sea and/or b). the Second Coming and, well you get the idea. All of us appreciate the band in varying degrees. I would say that this may depend upon the level at which we absorb the music. As both a musician (non-professional) and Crimson fanatic for more than 25 years, I can truly say my appreciation for the music has become very personalized and intense. I can take it on an emotional level or not, but it certainly cannot be music that is ignored, played in the background, or listened to AND discussed. It demands complete and immediate attention. If this forum had existed when I was in high school I can guarantee you a great deal of isolation might have been averted. Imagine my surpise at finding this list and discovering a readership that numbers in the thousands! I only grow disillusioned when I realize that, despite this wonderful common bond we share, there are ugly sentiments that flash about on these pages from time to time. Time to grow up, I guess.... Now for the obligitory 'I'm sorry for wasting bandwidth' speech. And IMHO disclaimer. Well, you get the idea. Now, onto Mr. Fripps question... "...'the question is always: how can I use this to help me serve my aim?'". Dear Robert, my question is, 'What is your aim?' No, don't answer that. That would take all the fun out of it. Just keep putting out more records. -sws at indra dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:48:18 -0800 From: rob dot rosen at West dot Sun dot COM ( Rob Rosen - SMCC Project Manager) Subject: Explorations , Expectations, Expectorations (these are words with an "E" this time :-). Warning: lengthy monologue follows. It's not often that one gets the chance to pontificate on the nature of the tenous relationship between musician and audience...especially when invited to do so (albeit publicly) by Robert Fripp! Here's my opinion, coming from someone who sits on both sides of the fence, as both audience member (mostly) and musician (rarely): Audiences and musicians are symbiotic; they need each other. Without an audience, most musicians wither. Without musicians, most audiences are forced to find some other, perhaps less fufilling, outlet for entertainment. My own personal observation is that a musician or group of musicians can be in one sense an "entertainer," but can in another sense be "an artist" - perhaps these are two ends of the same spectrum. The service that "musician as entertainer" is obligated to provide to the audience is "entertainment" (this term is often broadly defined according to social norms). The service that "musician as artist" is obligated to provide to the audience is "a clear statement of the artist's vision." I believe that most performers and their respective audiences are familiar with the side of the spectrum on which the performer falls. If you're on the "entertainment side" as an audience member, your obligation is to be willing to be entertained. If you're on the "artistic side" you have an obligation which requires more effort: you must be willing to make the effort to recognize the artist's statement and appreciate it (or not) for what it represents to you. (Either way, be prepared to fund the activity). Regarding setting and delivering on expectations: most people base their expectations on previous experience - experience which may or may not be relevant to the situation at hand. Incorrectly set expectations result in disappointment; it is the responsibility of both musician and audience member to match expectations to reality to the best degree possible. As an example, I offer my reaction to "ThraKAttaK." My expectation was that in exchange for US$15.99 I would receive 72 minutes of rhythmic, grooving improvisation similar to many of the improvs heard on "The Great Deceiver." I was sorely disappointed, mostly because my expectations were not in line with reality: the 90's KC is, after all, is a totally different band than the one which existed in the mid '70s. I mis-set my own expecations by making assumptions which were by and large, unwarranted. One could argue that by giving the same name to at least five separate groups producing five (or more) totally different musical statements over a near-thirty year timeframe, Mr. Fripp has contributed his fair share of mis-set expectations. On the other hand, Mr. Fripp has always taken pains to point out that KC is more a musical philosophy than a well-defined group of musicians who always compose and perform the same music in exactly the same way (quite a horrifying thought,isn't it?). KC is supposed to be organic. This is wholly consistent with a musician's right to express his/her vision over time, and how time influences that vision. It is my opinion that, for the most part, Mr. Fripp has gone out of his way to set his audience's expectations in a manner which is consistent with his vision. If we are disappointed, it is not because Mr. Fripp mis-set our expectations. I apologize for expectorating this lengthy exploration of expectations. Were I able to forward this directly to Mr. Fripp, I would have... Rob Rob Rosen Project Management SMCC 510.463.5432 Rob dot Rosen at West dot Sun dot COM FAX:510.734.9910 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:50:47 -0800 From: Bryan Reelfs Subject: Mr. Fripp's Inquiry Dear ET readers, staff, and of course Mr. Fripp, Up until now, I have been quite content to be a "lurker" on this list. This is due to the fact that I enjoy the timely updates on appearances, release dates, offers of sales of out-of-print or otherwise hard to find items, and other information, but rarely have the time or inclination to participate in the discussions. Now the request for consideration and response to several questions comes from the artist to whom this forum is devoted, and I find myself drawn into the fray. Well, here it goes: >i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast >/ fan and the musician? Primarily of course this is a marketplace relationship. It is the job of the artist to create product and to perform, and the function of the fan to purchase the product and attend the performances. I like to think, though, that the deeper purpose of the artist is to bring forth reflections on the universe around him/her as the artist's muse dictates, and to present these reflections (hopefully in a marketable form) to the public. The fan's deeper purpose then should be to derive whatever benefits they are able from the artist's product or performance. I see this relationship mostly as a one-way street with the fan's only return to the artist (besides the obvious monetary one) being to satisfy the artist's ego and to provide a gauge to measure the effectiveness of their presentation. >ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? I believe that the only right a fan has is to expect to receive a product or performance for their money that is of the highest quality that the artist is able to achieve at the time of its creation. If this right is not met, then the fan should be more wary of whom they support. I realize that not all products or performances will be equally pleasing to me, the consumer, and I don't expect all artists to cater to my particular tastes, but I believe that I have the right to expect the highest attention, quality, and effort. I also feel I have the right to expect no less from the company that produces my sneakers or the chap who washes my car. >iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / >enthusiast / fan? In my opinion, it is the duty of a fan to support the artist in all endeavors that appeal to the fan and to accept it gracefully when an artist's interests diverge from the fan's own. It is also the duty of a fan to treat the artist with as much respect as anyone else they might encounter, and not expect undue privileges just because they are a fan. Finally, it is the duty of a fan to allow the artist whatever space, personal discipline, habits, quirks, etc. the artist needs to achieve their artistic and personal goals. >iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your >artists? The only thing I personally expect of the artists I patronize is to remain first and foremost "artists" and to be true to their own artistic vision and purpose. v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? Of Mr. Fripp I expect no more and no less than what he has always done. His work, whether it be with King Crimson, Guitar Craft, Frippertronics/Soundscapes, solo work, collaborations, or guest appearances has always been, and I expect to always be, of the highest quality with great attention to detail and musicianship. I expect him to remain a vital force in the music industry without succumbing to the pressures of the commercial marketplace. I expect him to place his own personal and artistic vision above all else, and to continue in whatever personal discipline he feels necessary to achieve his aims. And of course he needs to keep being the greatest guitarist in the world. :-) Sorry for the length. To anyone who got this far, thanks for listening. Bryan Reelfs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:59:50 -0800 From: Mike Backof Subject: Fripp's Comments I thought I would join in with the masses that will likely respond to the post by Robert Fripp [AKA Incredible Guitarist, Troublemaker, Fan Hater, Whimsical Character] by setting out some ideas. i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / enthusiast/ fan and the musician? The audience listens, the enthusiast discusses the implications of the structure and tone of the music, and the fanatic screams "Robert Fripp is god on guitar" or "Robert Fripp is a pretentious bastard" depending on the level of caffine in the system and how long they have been listening to the Great Deceiver trying to chart out exactly what time signatures Bill Bruford is drumming at any given moment. ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? By purchasing an album we have a right as fans to listen to that album, let our friends borrow the album, or burn the album (depending on your point of view, though it is pointless to buy it if you are going to burn it). By purchasing a concert ticket we have the right to hear a valiant effort by the musician or musicians to produce their form of music, be it jazz, rock, country, or a combination. We don't have the right to tell Robert Fripp what type of guitar to use, what kind of shoes to wear, and where he should place himself on stage during a concert and expect him to listen to us and change his behavior accordingly. iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / enthusiast / fan? This is a difficult question. The audience should provide a suitable environment for the musician to produce music. The type of environment depends on the type of music. Quiet passages of moody music should command silence, loud roars of grinding guitar textures should demand cheers. This obviously is very subjective. The fan should also let the artist do their job (don't throw your band's CD at Robert Fripp, not wise, it prevents him from playing the guitar well, a band shouldn't have to dodge projectiles). iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists? I expect an artist to put on the best concert performance that is in their ability. I expect them to try new ideas and not spend their lives in the some creative rut, "push the envelope." Obviously when the artist is "pushing the envelope" they may generate music not entirely like their earlier works (this would be the departure of the hallowed 1970s sound to the 1980s sound with Adrian and Tony on board). Fans seem to want bands to try new ideas, but they get angry when the band's results are not what they expected. If Robert had gone in a dance/funk direction with the new album, replaced Adrian with Vernon Reid or something, people would have been screaming "commercial sell out" (even though personally I don't see that in this particular idea) and still others would be crying for the "days of the Schizoid Man." The artist needs to press onward. v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of Robert Fripp? I personally expect Robert Fripp to arrange his actions in a way to both irritate and amaze the King Crimson fanatic. To come out one night dressed as Adrian and have Adrian dressed as Fripp playing soundscapes in the background of a concert. I expect Fripp to meld old ideas with new ones and continue to grow the sound of King Crimson. I also expect him to continue to post thought provoking items to the digest, because just by participating he proves the individuals that say he holds disdain for his fans incorrect. Robert Fripp will be his own version of Robert Fripp, we can only watch and try to catch a bit of his angle, so we too can be as amused as Robert. Take care, Mike *------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Backof mbacko1 at umbc dot edu http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1 WWW Pages - Unsigned Bands: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1/munsign.html WWW Pages - Inferno Page: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1/inferno.html *------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:18:55 PST Subject: Fripp's reply From: alstew at juno dot com I was very happy to read Fripp's (or your, if your reading) letter here on E.T. Of the bat I do agree that there is much to negative on the bb here. People turn into critic's & judges all to often. I don't quite know that I understand all that "goes on" inside the man (Fripp) or still do after his (or your) post, but then again I suppose I don't have to. It is the music I enjoy & it is enough for me to hear you say your thankful to the folks who support it, those who have given you the opportunity to play all these years & indeed your playing is how you give it back. I saw K.C. in Asbury Park last year & Fripp (you) jumped down & walked right by us in the middle of a group of people & although you didn't say anything you did nod at the nice comments being made. Many of the folks were upset cause he (you) walked quite fast & in a flash you were gone, but again I suppose that's you. People may never understand you and maybe it's the enigma that makes you, I don't know, but i do know you have to be who you are, regardless of whether or not people like or appreciate it. Well, all I can say is may God continue to bless you & may your "aim" be toward him moreso than mere men. Al from Ct. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:08:21 PST From: Erik Matthysen Subject: Re: Fripp reads ET Dear all, I thought Fripp's latest contribution to ET is wonderful, hilarious and illuminating at the same time. So in the worst case our commentaries our cowpats, in the best case friends. I'd settle for that. I think the relationship between musician and enthusiast/fan/audience is not essentially different from many other human relationships: basically you have no claim one on the other. The artist is free whether or not to care about what the fans think or want. The fans are free to have their own opinions and expectations. Further, I strongly recommend that we use the following quote as a motto for ET: "I don't see how anyone would want to read it all for fun". Ceterum censeo Regis Rubris optimam esse mundi musicam. Erik Matthysen http://alt-www.uia.ac.be/u/matthys/ ------------------------------ From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:40:35 +0000 Subject: Robert's Questions Prompted by Robert Fripp's questions in ET#328, I'd like to recap on (and add to) my comments regarding artist / consumer a couple of issues ago. The artist owes nothing to 'the consumer' or does he? Why do artists present their creations to the public? It's usually because they wish to share what they have with others and also to see the reaction. The reaction manifests itself in many forms - financial return or lack of it, applause or jeering, positive and negative spoken or written criticism, etc. Different artists will allow these reactions to influence them to different extents or even not at all. It depends on how strong the 'art' or inspiration is within and/or around them. In this market-driven world, it is hard to avoid commercial issues. The financially successful artist has a greater potential to become more artistically successful, given that instruments, technology and time all cost money. Although, a genius is a genius, even on a shoestring. From the consumer's viewpoint, it is easy to think that your hard-earned cash spent on albums, concert tickets, whatever, which has helped put your artist where they are today, entitles you to a say in what the artist does now and next. The consumer had a choice though - to consume or not, a decision based upon personal tastes. The artist has a choice - to follow the consumer or inspirations and ideas. These can range from exactly the same thing to exactly opposite. The more the artist tends towards pandering to the consumer the more the artist becomes a manufacturer instead. As for the consumer's rights and obligations, there's only really one of each (IMHO, of course) - the right to your own opinions and tastes but the obligation to respect the artists and their work. If you don't like some music, don't listen to it, don't buy it, but don't chastise the musician, don't interrupt the musician mid-performance and don't do anything to prevent other listeners appreciating it and forming their own opinions. It is difficult not to expect more of the same from an artist, or at least more of similar, a large amount of obvious correlation to link past and present. I feel that this is due to 'social conditioning' caused by the industry, the media, the people with the purse strings. Personally, I (reluctant tautology here) don't really expect anything specific from artists any more, I just hope it will be appealing to me. Personally, I expect to be challenged, want to be impressed and hope to be moved by the future output of Robert Fripp and King Crimson. I know the music will do none of these things to many other people though. Again, I lay the blame for that on the legacy of 'the industry' and to a lesser extent, modern lifestyle. I look forward very much to new material and any 'new' live recordings, but for all I know they may not be to my tastes. However, I do doubt this given my fortunate open mindedness and the pedigree of the band and its members. Matt Nolan (still relatively naive at 22). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:38:35 -0400 From: malone at arts dot usf dot edu (Sean Malone) Subject: Response to RF >i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience / >enthusiast / fan and the musician? The nature of the relationship between audience/enthusiast/fan and the musician is at its best, a 0 to 1 relationship. >ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? None. The audience/enthusiast/fan has only a privelege (if attending a concert), and a means (if purchasing a recording) of consuming the musician's work. By consenting to compensate the artist for their work by means of money for a live performance or recorded material, the audience/enthusiast/fan enters an 'agreement' with the artist that does not exceed consumption of the work. Whereas the fan can have no expectation past consumption of the work (i.e. expectation to meet the artist and for that artist to be friendly), the artist also can have no expectation as to the reaction or lack of understanding of the audience/enthusiast/fan. This agreement should not be considered as a mutual blank check, that has both parties expecting commiseration. >iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the audience / >enthusiast / fan? I take this to mean any obligations or responsibilities from the fan *to* the musician. The enthusiast/fan, as a consumer, has no obligations to the artist. However, the term 'fan' subsumes a level of appreciation that excedes consumer status - and that unfortunately is the foundation for audience/enthusiast/fan expectation. The artist has no obligation to the audience/enthusiast/fan in regards to the fact that the continued purchasing of the artist's work by the audience/enthusiast/fan supports the artist. The publishing of works serves only as an end to make available these works to a number of consumers that would otherwise be impossible if left only to the artist. Consuming published work is an end in itself, and should not be a means of continued expectation of the audience/enthusiast/fan. (You didn't mention what the artist has to expect from the audience/enthusiast/fan during a live performance, though I'll refer to the GPAADAK which stands for the Gould Plan for the Abolition of Applause and Demonstrations of All Kinds. Which you can read for yourself in the Glenn Gould Reader by Tim Page.) >iv) What do you personally, as an audient / enthusiast / fan expect of >your artists? I have no expectations of any artist, since I make no claim on them as being 'mine', or on their work, or the manner in which they carry themselves in public. This lack of expectation however, does not preclude possible disappointment in the appraisal of future works. >v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan expect of >Robert Fripp? Nothing. Sincerely, SM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:01:51 -0500 From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" Subject: To Robert Fripp Dear Robert, The following is submitted in response to the questions you posed: i) the nature of the relationship between the audience and the musician is that of a common sensibility. This sensibility may or may not extend beyond the music - or even the moment of the music. Perhaps the thing for which we are striving is that moment of connectedness - the big payoff for audience and musician - when all of the golden yummies come pouring out ("golden yummies" reference stolen from a late, great 9 1/2 fingered guitarist). ii) the right of the audience is the choice to actively listen or not, to decide whether or not to participate in the moment. (hmm, I've stumbled into a paradox here...if you choose to not listen, are you still part of the audience? Well, unfortunately the answer is "yes" in New Jersey) iii) the responsibility of the audience depends upon the answer to question ii. If one chooses not to listen, their responsibility is to go away - find a place which is compatible with their sensibilities. If one chooses to listen, their responsibility is to listen respectfully, to help in creating an environment in which the artist can speak ("Whipping Post! Whoooo! Hey Adrian, do you like it?"). The connection between artist and audience cannot occur without at least a bit of effort on both sides. I think the audience also has the responsibility to foster an environment which values risk taking. If an artist goes out on a limb, falls off and is then kicked and beaten after he hits the ground, don't be surprised if he displays artistic reluctance in the future. iv) As an audient, I try to resist expectations of the artist. Expectations compromise my ability to hear the music. But I do expect the artist to try and communicate - to provide something worthy of both of our time and effort. v) I expect Robert Fripp will continue on his journey, I on mine, with the hope that our paths continue to cross. Final thought: I was truly pleased by your "Dear Team" salutation. Perhaps it was merely a courtesy, but I choose to believe that it indicates we are all in this thing together, each with a significant role. It was a pleasure to hear from you. Go team, go! Sincerely, Robert Hickson ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #331 ********************************