Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #323 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 323 Tuesday, 24 December 1996 Today's Topics: Red cello/lyric changes The King Crimson Corporate Conspiracy Looking for Guitar Trio concert schedule. Turangalila Symphony Wierd Damage Duet Sound Literary References Re: Elephant Talk Digest #320 Fracture Tablature Talkers covering Crimson, is Belew any good for Crimson? lotsa stuffis:'tronics, tributes, and DGM The Mincer and other Lyrical things "Steve Hackett and Friends" Plays ITCCK and I Talk to the Wind Re: Rock Critique RF Soundscapes in Bath Intellectual Property Rights for Tribute Album ET's very own KC Tribute Live In Japan Re: Crimson Tribute. Looking for Damage CD It's only rock. B'Boom Eddie Jobson CD required - last resort KCVideo (again!) Fripp and Fans Adrian's Corner R.Fripp=nice guy Yet another Schizoid Man; Tippett question Finally, a positive comment about the video. re: 2 Sides of Fripp's 'Tude Inspiration KC Live in Japan video Alice / Belew In defense of Adrian/RE: double-shows drivel Out of Phase Crimson Tokyo Live Video Wowow Channel Steve Hackett and Ian McDonald/John Wetteon Report on the Gig by Steve Hackett & Friends Steve Hackett Live in Japan Hord/video/Belew Red cello revisited sylvian/fripp damage availability Wetton / Hackett in Japan Weird Person's Guide to King Crimson Vol 2 Exposure Soundbites (Fwd) Recommendation of 10secs 2 more sides of Fripp's 'tude That's "'MAYBE' breathing",man... "I was invited to look angry and irritable" -- Fripp, 1978 A thread too far ? Re: Elephant Talk Digest #319 The Adrian Issue re: Adrian's post and the criticism of AB Adrian Belew Bashers kind of sad. Next Crimson single: "Put Up Or Shut Up" Re: Bowie/Eno/Belew Three new members? Adrian Re: Belew Follies Adrian Bashing Belew brouhaha and ballyhoo Posting for Elephant Talk from Sister Patricia Fripp Interviews and Belew Chat Re: Too late for an Adrian thread? Jazz, Classical, Rock, & robot stuff AB: Gaga Geek or Idiot Savant? Michael Brook A response for Mr. Swansorb My thoughts on a few recent threads Re: Elephant Talk Digest #322 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Toby Subject: Merry Christmas Merry Christmas to all ET readers from all of us here at ET Towers -- webmeister Dan, mail-guru Mike, and myself. Enjoy yourselves. Toby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 23:18:23 -0500 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Interviews and Belew Chat ETers, Just a quick word to let you know that I've been adding a sh*t load of interviews to ET Web of late so if you haven't stopped by lately you might want to check them out. In addition Gary "The Artist Shop" Davis has provided me with the transcript for the recent Adrian Belew IRC Chat. You can read the complete transcript in the Interview pages at ET Web. Meanwhile if any of you have an interview that you'd like to submit to ET Web let me know!! All the best, Dan ET Web P.S. If you don't find the AB transcript let Toby know :^) [ Nice try Dan, but I just this minute installed the new files :-) -- Toby ] -- Daniel A. Kirkdorffer Email: DanKirkd at aol dot com The Gallimaufry: http://members.aol.com/dankirkd/ Elephant Talk: http://members.aol.com/etmirror/ Elephant Talk: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ little a: http://members.aol.com/sayaaahh/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:30:03 -0500 From: Chris Mitchell Subject: Red cello/lyric changes Hello all. First off, to settle this question of Wetton playing bowed double-bass on Red and Fallen Angel...Red's liners mention a cellist as an extra musician. Nuff said? Next, Erik Dahlin in ET#320 asked about KC song lyrics that may have changed over time...I'd point to "Easy Money" and "Starless." Compare the studio takes to live versions on the Great Deceiver box - Wetton seems to have a couple of extra verses up his sleeve (courtesy of Palmer-James, I guess). Incidentally, the live "Starless" features the lines: Cards fall, faces change Cat's cunning shows and then two more lines (I forget at the moment). Anyway, this verse pops up a couple years later in a UK song from the album Danger Money (I think the song was Caesar's Palace Blues). Anyone else notice this? Here's a silly trivia question: in the back of the Great Deceiver's scrapbook, there is a nice sized picture of someone's hands playing what I assume is a mellotron. Now, the sleeve of Roxy Music's live _Viva_ album contains the very same picture. Of course, John Wetton was part of both recordings, but he wasn't a keyboardist....just wondering whose picture that actually is. chris m univ of tenn PS: Joe Henderson fans check out his new big band album. A+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 14:22:24 EST From: c62op27 at ibx dot com (Victor Fiorillo) Subject: The King Crimson Corporate Conspiracy The men's bathroom is usually the last place that makes me think of King Crimson . Today was a bit different. I was using the men's room at work when I happene d to spy the toilet paper dispenser. On it was a metal engraved plate with the name of the manufacturer, Kimberly Clark. Next to the name was the logo. Lo an d behold, the logo is almost identical to the KC logo on the cover of B'Boom: th e K with the backwards C to its left. )|( - Like that but only closer togethe r. I wonder if the Legal Hounds at Kimberly Clark know about this. Victor ------------------------------ From: Toby Subject: Turangalila Symphony I recently discovered Olivier Messaien's "Turangalila Symphony". I'd recommend it to Crimheads. It was written in the 40s and is as exciting as I don't know what. Toby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 12:12:46 From: Jon Lybrook Subject: Looking for Guitar Trio concert schedule. Hi All, I was bummed to read that the California Guitar Trio came through Denver when I wasn't looking. Does anyone know where I can find an on-line concert/tour schedule for those wily disciples of Discipline? Thanks, Jon '===========================================================' ' Jon Lybrook - Computer Operator Phn 303-447-2020 181 ' Geological Society of America Fax 303-447-1133 ' P O Box 9140 ' Boulder, CO 80301 USA email jlybrook at geosociety dot org ' ' GSA WWW home page URL is: ' http://www.geosociety.org '===========================================================' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:36:02 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Wierd Damage Duet Sound Every time I listen to "On the Road to Graceland" off of Damage, I am amazed by the uniqueness of that Fripp/Gun guitar/stick duet/tradeoff. The sounds they used, as well as the way they play their instruments are truly like nothing I've ever heard before, and i can't quite get over it. Does anyone else feel the same way about that part? This brings me to another one of my favorite experiences during art. If I am tickled pink by something, I also get off on the fact that there is such a person out there creating such a thing! This is one of those instances. ------------------------------ From: Dave Bevan Subject: Literary References Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:42:46 GMT Organization: Clarendon House Having just read through a backlog of 3 months ET, I was surprised that the best that could be done for Starless & Bible Black was a reference to something by Dylan Thomas. Come on, this is something which should be ingrained into everyone on this list. Its from the opening of 'Under Milk Wood', the reference being (without looking it up) 'the sky was starless, and bible black'. Also, in reference to the !?*& who was waffling on about emotion only being conveyed through lyrics, may I thank the person who suggested Starless, which I am listening to for the first time in many years (the great deceiver version) while typing this.=20 I don't have Red on CD, and Disk 2 is my favourite GD disk, which probably explains it. My favourite Red track is Fallen Angel, though I doubt I have listened to that for at least 5 years. Good Grief, better dig the vinyl out. -- Dave Bevan (dave at verdant dot demon dot co dot uk) Leamington Spa Warwickshire (The opinions expressed here are also my dogs) =20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:32:21 -0500 From: Tom Lewis Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #320 To the individual who was interested in the Eric Tamm book, contact me directly. You can have mine. tom lewis athens, ga ------------------------------ Subject: Fracture Tablature Date: Mon, 16 Dec 96 17:39:08 -0800 From: Bruce Selzler >I happen to be more than interested! That is a fabulous idea. I get >dibs on "Fracture"! I challenge all Crimson nuts to contribute something! Now that you mention Fracture, does anyone have any Tablature for this? Actually I am interested in any and all accurate Crimso/Fripp Tab. Any help would be appreciated. - Sez **************** Visit General Music 101 +===+ o +===+ at | | /|\ | | http://www.concentric.net/~selzler/ |~~~| Co-"=|~~~| |___| / \ |___| - The Road Goes on Forever - **************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:58:41 -0500 (EST) From: Karl Myers Subject: Talkers covering Crimson, is Belew any good for Crimson? Greetings. In response to Matt Walsh's idea for bands to cover Crimson, It's a definite possibility. That is, I'm sure that it would work as far as willing participants goes. My band could handle it, we routinely have songs that are in time signatures other than 4, and we are all influenced by similar music (including Crimson). It's funny that Matt made that suggestion, since I used to "guest" on drums for his old band, and we went to the last KC show of the tour together. Of course I'm with you on this, Matt! There may be a problem, as Matt mentioned, with the copyright of the material. I am not sure that Mr. Fripp would be favorable to such an idea. He seems to be very interested in protecting his music, and rightfully so. I know that when the Rush tribute album came out, they were extremely irate, especially Neil Peart, who called it "not even a tribute as far as I am concerned". I think that if we were to start such an idea, it would have to be with the full support of at least Robert Fripp. And in response to Mr. Belew's comments: Adrian Belew is good for King Crimson. Karl Myers mophead at udel dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:26:37 -0500 (EST) From: Nameless to the Goddess Subject: lotsa stuffis:'tronics, tributes, and DGM Can I say lotsa stuffis? >From what I gather, Frippertronics go like this: Tape 1 Tape 2 ----plays-->- ---- ----- | 0 0 0 0 <---- | ^ ^ | | | | | | | Unused Reels | | | around | Records->--tape goes | ^ | | | +-------<------------<---------- | --- Room sounds I have a couple questions. First, how much do reel to reels cost these days, if I wanted to build such a machine? I'd consider using two standard tape machines, but I can't think how to get the tape from one to the other. Second question: that '+' where you record both the output from tape 2 and the instrument in question. What is it? Hopefully not a whole mixing board. Second Topic: the proposed net tribute album. A nifty idea, I think. I'd much prefer it to some commercially sponsored moneymaking scheme. Go for it. The way Babble (the late Cure Mailing List) did it was everyone sent their tapes to one person, who compiled and then sent out to whoever wanted it (who paid cost). If I ever come up with a way to produce music entirely solo, I may contribute "Book of Saturdays" (maybe the most beautiful Crimson piece) or "Epitaph." Third Topic: Finally got my DGM sampler. Best Artist I Do Not Own an Album Of goes to Europa String Choir, with Honorable Mentions to Los Gauchos, Tonay Levin, Gitbox, and maybe Ten Seconds. No question, DGM is one class label, but I wonder if possibly there is too much ambience involved, and not enough melody. Ten Seconds is a great rhythm section (fantastic) but needs something. The rest sound like acoustic or real-time soundscapes. How representative are these choices to the albums they are taken from? And BTW, are they edited? My copy of _One Thousand Years_ is in a theft-proof space so I can't check, but I thought Real Life was a few minutes longer. Oh, Best Soundscape goes to "Sometimes God Hides." Beautiful. Fourth Topic (and the last): Trey Gunn lyrics. On the net? Sinister Minister, Church of Perelandra <*> http://www.afn.org/~afn39111 DREAMS OF TAKING THE VEIL--a rollercoaster reality ride ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 23:35:37 -0500 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: The Mincer and other Lyrical things Crimheads, Mike D. asked a number of questions in ET 319 that have received some attention, and I'll leave it to Terry and J.P. to determine their place in the ET FAQ (which does exist at the ET Web site BTW). However I thought I'd give a stab at "The Mincer" lyrics. To plug the lyrical hole I've had the following on the SaBB releases page at ET Web for some time now: Fingers reaching, Fingers reeking. Jump for the scream, Good night, honey. You're all alone, Baby, breathing. They come better looking, But they don't come mannered. Biffyshrew in ET 320 came up with: Fingers reaching Fingers shrieking Jump at a scream Goodnight, honey You're all alone Baby breathing They come better looking But they don't come madder So we differ by reeking/shrieking (a tough one because of the plural "fingers" - does that "s" begin a second word?), and mannered/madder. Later in ET 320 Erik D. Dahlin asked about other KC lyrics that changed between versions. The '72-'74 band has a number of documented instances of that happening. "Easy Money"'s "...argued with the judge/but the basterd wouldn't budge..." live (USA, TGD) version differs from the studio version. Interestingly this difference seems to be consistent in all live versions of "Easy Money" I've heard. Perhaps this is a case of lyrics changing *after* the studio version had been recorded. TGD also shows that until recorded for Red, "Starless" had seemingly unfinished, or simply different lyrics. BTW, all the lyrics can be found at the KC Releases pages at ET Web, although these live version differences are not included. Now, I have a question for all of you. I've always wondered what exactly it is that Tony Levin sings in the background on "Frame By Frame". I've email Tony once before on this but I guess that email got caught in the great black email hole. Anyone? And for a bonus question/discussion: am I the only one here who thinks that Trey Gunn sings the fast vocal on "Cage"? I surely isn't Adrian Belew's voice, especially when he clearly is singing the chorus. Anyone agree? A happy holiday season to all ETers, Dan -- Daniel A. Kirkdorffer Email: DanKirkd at aol dot com The Gallimaufry: http://members.aol.com/dankirkd/ Elephant Talk: http://members.aol.com/etmirror/ Elephant Talk: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ little a: http://members.aol.com/sayaaahh/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:49:35 +0900 From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (Tomoyuki Ohsawa) Subject: "Steve Hackett and Friends" Plays ITCCK and I Talk to the Wind Hi, Yesterday at Tokyo Kohsei-Nenkin Kaikan (Welfare Fund Hall) in Shinjuku, Tokyo, Steve Hackett and Friends (Ian McDonald, John Wetton, Chester Thompson, Julian Colbeck) played In the Court of the Crimson King and I Talk to the Wind. They played it quite true to the original tune, Ian McDonald playing keyboard and flute. Steve Hackett played RF finger picking in detail, making these two songs very much like the original one. From left to right of the stage: JC, SH, CT in the back, JW and IM. The opening song was The Watcher of the Skies from Genesis. They did Genesis, King Crimson, Asia and of course SH's solo pieces. It seemed to me that though they made a lot of mistakes (wrong timing/wrong volume, etc), the overall atmoshpere was excellent. I appreciated their willingness to preserve the old context of each songs. One exception was probably Heat of the Moment (Asia) which they did in acoustic ensemble (three acoustic guitars and a keyboard by JC). The solo guitar pieces (classic guitar) were excellent (as you could imagine from SH's albums), giving contrast to rather heavy-sounding band. JW's bass was quite heavy and long tone. The mix was not too nice to JC's keyboards, I thought. Too thin and too quiet compared with other instruments: without the complex keyboard works filling in the spaces among heavy instruments, the total band sounds too thin and torn apart. It also occurred to me that the band probably did not rehearse that much. An ad hoc band? Despite all these, the choice of the songs were quite impressive, covering the major tunes from the 60's to the 90's. The crowd went wild when they noticed the introductory phrase of ITCCK. IM's flute did sound like the original piece. IM now has much less hair and looks quite slim. He looked very sincere. When the crowd gave him much applause after ITCCK and I Talk to the Wind, he tried not to catch too much appreciation onto himself only: it's SH band anyway. He sang I Talk to the Wind together with John and Steve: chorus was impressive. He also played acoustic guitars, sax (which sounded exactly like the one from ITCCK album) and keyboards (including the bass lines for The Watcher of the Skies). The backing mellotron sound (now made through synth keyboards) on ITTCCK was also his. JW's bass line for I Talk to the Wind was too heavy and pasty but so what. I heard this song live after listening it for 27 years on records and CD's. I am quite sure that the rest of the people in the hall enjoyed the live versions of ITCCK and ITTTW. Extreme amount of heat and excitement of the people were overwhelming. JW said at the introduction of ITCCK, something like "remember this after 27 years?". There was no official program of the concert available. But they sold T-shirts with the design from Steve Hackett's new CD. SH's guitar works were also excellent. Genesis has lost a great player. The stage was lit somewhat like the old days using mirror balls. Remember them? Overall lighting was good. BTW, the mixer played KC's recent live versions before the concert started. I think it was from B'BOOM. (Somebody in Tokyo please check). SH repeatedly mentioned during the concert that he was happy and proud to have such great musicians with him to play on stage. He is right. ************************************************** Tomoyuki Ohsawa Entertainment Business Development Department Sony Corporation ************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 13:58:12 +0200 From: Tefkros Symeonides Subject: Re: Rock Critique "Gordon Emory Anderson" wrote: (snip) >Let's face it: Fripp plays great, >thrilling rock guitar, but its still only ROCK. (As a well known NYC studio >brass player said: "Rock Critique? What the hell's a rock critique? That's >like looking into a toilet bowl and picking out your favorite turd!") I wonder why you posted this; you must have expected a certain degree of flaming. Anyway, I have two things to say to you: 1. Fripp (and King Crimson in general) do NOT just play ROCK. You'd actually call Fracture rock? And Fripp is not just a guitarist (sorry, I wanted to say: he's not just one of the best guitarists in the world). He is an excellent artist, and you are really wronging him here. As far as I'm concerned, Fripp has never played "Rock Guitar". "Rock guitar" is what most other guitarists play (like Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, and Pete Townshend). However, 2. If you really think that ROCK is an "inferior" or "vulgar" or "simple" kind of music that does not deserve the appreciation it has got, I suggest you move yourself to a different kind of mailing list. Tefkros Symeonides ------------------------------ From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan) Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:00:22 +0000 Subject: RF Soundscapes in Bath Did any other ETers go along and see Robert at Green Park Station? I actually missed it (despite living in Bath) as I went after work but the performance had finished earlier than advertised. Apparently this was due to complaints about 'the noise' - I didn't think that video was quite so available these days (sorry). Am I impressed with my fellow citizens or what? If anybody knows the facts and/or could tell me what I missed whilst also providing a review for the other readers then that would be great. Another thing, I didn't really want to say anything about this but here goes anyway: All these Adrian Belew and Double-Trio gripes - what is it with you people? I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think this is more a manifestation of that age-old human pitfall 'resistance to change' I find it rather ironic coming from fans of so-called progressive music. Personally, I can find no fault with any of King Crimson's work from any period in its history, especially recently. And what if I did? The artist owes the 'consumer' nothing. If you don't like what you see, get yourself some new glasses or learn to paint yourself! Soap-box mode off. Flame shields up. Happy Christmas to those of you so inclined. Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ From: "Heilbronner, Michael" Subject: Intellectual Property Rights for Tribute Album Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:29:00 -0500 I have nothing musical to offer to a tribute album. I am, however, an intellectual property attorney who can respond to the question about what permission one would have to obtain in order to record one. Without going into too much detail before it's necessary (i.e., before the project becomes remotely realistic), the owners of the copyright rights in the tribute album would have to obtain permission from the CURRENT owners of the "composition" rights for each KC song that is included on the album. Composition rights refer to the rights owned by the creators of the words and music of each song. Composition rights are the rights represented by the encircled "C" on an album, tape, cd, etc. (as opposed to the "phonorecord" rights represented by an encircled "P," which refers to the rights in the recorded performance of the composition). Assuming the tribute album does not contain ANY "samples" of material lifted from actual recorded performances, the phonorecord rights are not an issue for the makers of the tribute album. The ultimate question then is _who_ is the current owner of the composition rights of each song. As an initial matter, the creators of the music and lyrics own the composition rights to a song. Unfortunately for most professional musicians, those rights are almost always assigned to a record company. In turn, the record company may have assigned the rights to another third party (a la Michael Jackson, who owns the rights to the Beatles library -- although, I think he may only own the phonorecord rights, but I'm not sure). Here's an example. Assume that Wetton wrote all the lyrics to One More Red Nightmare and Fripp wrote all the music (I don't have the disc in front of me to know whether this was the case). As an initial matter, Wetton and Fripp would own the respective composition rights to the lyrics and music of the song. Unfortunately for Mssrs. Wetton and Fripp (and for most professional musicians), they worked for EG records, an evil record company that, as part of a recording contract, required Wetton and Fripp to assign all composition rights to the song. As a result of these assignments, EG records owned the composition rights to the lyrics and music of One More Red Nightmare. Absent any other exchanges of rights, the makers of the tribute album would have to obtain permission from EG records to record the "compositions" embodied in One More Red Nightmare. It is my understanding, however, that, after extensive haggling, Mr. Fripp acquired all underlying rights to the music King Crimson recorded while with EG records. If so, the makers of the tribute album would have to obtain Mr. Fripp's permission (or the permission of whatever company to which he may have assigned the composition rights, such as Discipline Global Mobile). In any event, the makers of the tribute album would have to trace the chain of title to the composition rights for each song included on the album. All of this explains the peculiarly-worded copyright notice at the bottom of modern KC albums. The one on B'Boom mentions the "phonographic copyright" (phonorecord rights) and the "publishing copyright in these compositions" (composition rights). Apparently, as a result of Mr. Fripp's disputes with EG, he believes that the traditional transfer of rights from artist to record company violates principles of natural justice. I agree!!!! Cheers to DGM!!! By the way, the encircled "C" has a different meaning when there are no compositions involved. For example, there are two encircled "C"s on the back of B'Boom, the one on the bottom refers' to KC's composition rights. The one in the middle refers to the general copyright rights owned by Bill Smith Studio in the design and computer images on the inserts. A final note. I only know about US copyright law. The type of permission one would need to record, distribute and sell a tribute album in another country may be different. Good luck! I think it's a good and workable idea. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:08:53 -0600 From: jimklo at webspun dot com (Jim Klocek) Subject: ET's very own KC Tribute My son's band "Atomic Amish" does a very loyal version of "21st Century Schizoid Man" with some of their own nice twists and turns, and would be happy to contribute this track if it could be arranged. ------------------------------ Subject: Live In Japan Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:15:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Tony Burton Hi all, This recently appeared on the Asia maily list... > > Last night (16 Dec 96) I went to the "Steve Hackett & Friends" concert > which featured John Wetton, Ian McDonald(ex-King Crimson), Chester > Thompson(Genesis), and Julian Colbeck(ex-support keyboardist for > ABWH) at Shinjuku Kousei Nenkin Kaikan Hall in Tokyo. The concert > started around 7:10 pm with the Genesis song, "Watcher of the Skies" > sung by John without his bass. Since this concert was Steve Hackett's > first live appearance to the Japanese audiences and mainly to promote > his "Genesis:Revisited" album, John was trying to keep his stance as > one of Steve's support player and not the main act. However, John had > sung most of the songs and the highlight of the show (at least for me) > was when they played "In the Court of the Crimson King" together. > > It was a big surprise for me and for most people who were there that > evening. They played the song almost exactly to the original version with > Ian on flute, but since this was my first time to see and listen John > perform "In the Court...", this concert became something really special to > me! In this concert, John played two songs of his own, "Battle Lines" > and "The Heat of the Moment (Acoustic Version)". Especially, "The Heat > of the Moment" sounded the best among John's solo career with > extraordinary Steve and Ian's harmony vocals. > > The concert ended at 9:00 pm, but it really made me feel that I wanted > to see them perform more. If they will be performing in your town, you > should never miss this one or you'll regret forever! > T. *----------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Burton ... AI Software Engineer Research Student Bassist http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/A.Burton/ +-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------------------+ | Version: 3.12 | "If you ever drop your | GMU/CS/E d-(---)>$ s+: a- C+ US++$ P? L E--- | keys into a river of | W++>+++ N++(+) o? !K-- w !O M--- V-- PS+>++ | molten lava - let | PE- Y+ PGP--- t+(++)@ !5-- X- !R tv b+ DI? | them go ... cos man, | D+(++) G++ e++>++++ h-- r++ y++*(**)>$ | they're gone ...." +-END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Matt Walsh Subject: Re: Crimson Tribute. Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 10:32:00 PST Now that my message has been out there for a little while and I have gotten a good amount of response there are a few things about my initial message that I would like to make clearer. 1. This is not an attempt to get together a Crimson tribute band, but getting ET members that are also musicians / in bands to bring their bands to the members of ET and pay respect to the band we are all here for. Sorry if I offend anyone by this, but I cannot stand the concept of a tribute band. I don't see a point in being a musician if you're going to be completely unoriginal. 2. I would assume (maybe a bad judgment) that since we are all fans of music so different as KC, that any band involved would not regurgitate what was already done. To me, when a band covers another bands song, it takes the original and molds it into its own. Taking KC's music and doing exactly what they did is not much of paying respect. Originality is what brought KC to us, and I love the idea of taking our originality and giving it back to them saying "thank you". I hope everyone feels the same way. 3. I also assumed that this would be a "non-profit" project, and maybe even be just for ET members. Even with the music I play in my band, I never expect to or really care to make any money. I definitely wouldn't be interested in making money off of KC. My idea stemmed from two things. I am interested in my band doing a KC song, and the fact that we have ET T-shirts. This mailing list is all about the music, so if we have T-shirts, why not music? 4. This would be a BIG project, and I know of having to go through all the legal hassles. I didn't mention it before, but this was just a suggestion, and is nothing I would have time to take control of myself. I figured I would leave the idea open to anyone and see if they wanted to try and take control of it. We would need permission (Fripp, publishing co.) so I put the idea on the virtual table, just wanted to see if anyone was willing to persue it. This message has gotten very long-winded, and I apologize for that, I've gotten a lot of response, so the interest is obviously out there. One other good idea brought up to me (sorry, I erased your message so I forget your name) was instead of covering KC songs, we each put a song of our own material together and distribute it though ET. After reading this, my grand idea is to have a tape in which one side 1 each band does a KC cover, and on side 2 the same bands do an original. The point of all this is for ET members to "get together" and to respectfully say thank you to one of the greatest bands of all time. So, anyone want to take on this monster of a project? I would love to, but with working late every day and with the tons of things going on with my band for the next few months. I would not be able to devote the time needed, so if anyone is interested, let me know. To make this long message even longer, I wanted to comment on the message sent by Adrian Belew. I was suprised to find out that he actually wrote the message at the end. But this obviously bothers him, and I would just like to tell him one thing. Most of my favorite KC songs were written by/with Adrian Belew, most of my least favorite KC songs were written by/with Adrian Belew. You know what they say opinions are like, and no matter what happens someone is going to bitch about it. Don't let any negative criticism bother you. It shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks. When you let other people's opinions music bother you, your music suffers. It upset me a little bit that you wrote that message, though I understand why you would be upset. Just do what you do, and those who do not like you in KC can go .... themselves. I'll still be listening... Sorry for the bandwith Toby, Matthew Walsh Software Engineer - Strategic Management Group mattw at smginc dot com mattmonkw at aol dot com Matt's personal CD jukebox - Currently playing and annoying co-workers with: Amorphis - "Elegy" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:54:41 -0600 From: "Dr. Randal W. Giroux" Subject: Looking for Damage CD I have hesitated to post this request here since no response will mean certain failure. I've become enamoured with the Fripp and Sylvian "DAMAGE" CD which a kind ETer taped for me. Unfortunately, as we all know tape recording will degrade and eventually become unlistenable in the future. For this reason, I have been searching endlessly to hunt this CD down. There have been offers on ET but i have yet to be successful. If you have a copy and are willing to part with it for a price, email me privately and I promise we can come to an agreement. even unreasonable offers will be considered. Crossed fingers and hoping for help. Randy Dr. Randal W. Giroux If you think agriculture Cereal Rust Laboratory USDA/ARS /---\ is Old Hat, University of Minnesota __________| | LOOK AGAIN!! 1551 Lindig Street / /| | St. Paul, MN 55108 /_________/ | | / / / / / / (612)625-7790 | _ | | | / / / / / / / Fax: (612) 649-5054 |___| |___| | | / / / / / / randyg at puccini dot crl dot umn dot edu / / / / / / / / / / / / / / ** http://www.umn.edu/rustlab/Info/projects/randy.html ** / / / / / / / / / ------------------------------ From: Bradley Stewart Cook Subject: It's only rock. Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 11:50:40 -0600 (CST) Hullo. Just some comments about the post from Emory in the last et He commented that he grew up around classical music that takes a dedication and devotion that Mr Fripp may have only heard of...or something along those lines. He also stated that this is "only rock and roll." First of all, I love classical music as well as jazz, prog, world...etc. But to imply that rock musicians are somehow inferior to classical musicians (which IS what your posting implied whether you realize it or not)is an absolutely snotty and pretentious thing to do. Sure, alban Berg had some wonderful and complex music. So did Frank Zappa. So does Mr. Bungle, so does Adrian Belew, Ivo Papazov, Ornette Coleman, and so does Robert Fripp. Whether you are composing rock, jazz, or Bulgarian wedding music, none of these labels mean that the music is any less intelligent or complex than classical music. When I listen to or think about rock music I do not think of it as any lower down the music chain than Berg, Reich, Crumb, Ligeti, Mussorgsky, etc... My point is that music is music. To put it into the bounds of stereotypes and categories for the sake of thinking that "your" music is superior to what other people are listening to is the first step in the road to heated arguments about who "sux" and who "rulez." Let's not do that here. As for this highly esteemed horn player you mentioned that compared rock to "turds in a toilet" based on this comment I would say that this man exhibits an incredible lack of understanding about music. Maybe he can play the horn but he sure has a lot of learning to do. DigMe Brad bradcook at tamu dot edu ------------------------------ From: "J.Serlav\ss" Subject: B'Boom Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:01:28 +0100 What happens? Nobody heared B'Boom? All of you're always talking about Fripp (that's good), Belew (that's good), Levin (sometimes), and what's up with BB and Mastelloto? The best "drum-solo" song I've ever heared....it's all in its place. Grow= s up and down like natural themes, and isn't based on typical 4/4 drum signatures (quite good nowadays). The mutual understanding of Bill and Pa= t is moulded (english translation from the spanish "plasmado"???) in this song: SONG, NOT SOLO. Thanks ET,and KC for your great work. Go on with it and my best greetings to Bill and Pat from a lesser drummer from Barcelona ;). Wish you merry Christmas and a happy New Year (HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! topics, topics, topics...) :)Josep M=AA Serlav=F3s(: serlavos at ctv dot es Alias "Gargamel" on Undernet IRC ------------------------------ From: "Manir Donaghue" Subject: Eddie Jobson CD required - last resort Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:00:17 -0000 Apologies in advance for the extremely specific nature of this post, but I am desperate. In February 1995 my house was burgled, and as well as all my definitive edition Crimson CDs, several hundred other CDs were stolen. The very helpful insurance people got them all replaced for me, bar one. That being "Theme of Secrets" by Eddie Jobson. It was released on Peter Baumann's Private Music label and was deleted a couple of years ago. I have tried just about every new, and quite a few second-hand, stores in the UK and cannot find a trace of it. I therefore throw myself upon the discerning mercy of the ET readership to ask if anyone has a copy of this that they no longer want, or have seen it in a second-hand store near them. I am willing to pay handsomely for it, alternatively I am in possession a rather pristine copy of the Belew compilation "Desire of the Rhino King" which is in its cellophane wrapper(for some reason I got two of these), or if anyone can think of anything else they might want from the UK I'll endeavour to get it for them. Sorry once again for the peripheral nature of the post, but I can now live in hope (for a little while at least) Manir Donaghue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 96 20:44:30 GMT From: KIM_FYSON Subject: KCVideo (again!) After all the debate about the pros and cons of this video - could we hear the opinions of KC themselves in some form or another? Are they happy with it? Perhaps Adrian Belew would be prepared to comment. Kim Fyson Cambridge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:29:55 GMT From: Simon Robert Subject: Fripp and Fans Several correspondents to ET have recently mentioned Robert Fripp's ambivalent attitude towards fans who try to engage him in conversation at venues. i.e. > One of the people started shouting something like >"Robert, you changed my life", and things like that, when RF obviously >reached over, without looking, and shut the window. The writer then speculates about RF's ideological position in regard to personality cults, rock stardom, mass communications and the individual. How is this action to be read when you try to interpret it in conjunction with RF's pronouncements about the place of the individual musicians in a music business which attempts to glorify the man rather than the music. Now without wanting to in anyway suggest that RF was doing anything other than acting from the purest of ideological motives, doubtless the result of many hours meditation on the contradictions inherent in a communication process which is both antithetical to and dependant on a highly evolved capitalism with its attendant reification of the message object, might it not be the case that closing the window and turning away is the easiest way to shut out an annoying loudmouthed wanker who's yelling a complete load of mindless bollocks at you. Just a suggestion. Keep on ETing Simon Robert simrob at zetnet dot co dot uk simon at mal dot team400 dot ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:57:35 -0600 From: Rob Murphree Subject: Adrian's Corner Hi ETers, Adrian has posted his first of a weekly 'update' to the Adrian Belew WWW Site. Adrian covers what's going on in his home studio with King Crimson as well as his next solo Acoustic project. His first post spans the time frame from December 1st thru December 13th and is quite interesting. Come on over to Rob Murphree's Adrian Belew WWW Site and see what's going on. It appears in Adrian's Corner at: http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino Thraks for listening. -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:23:31 -0600 From: yossari at abilene dot com (Mike Miller) Subject: R.Fripp=nice guy I suppose some of us are discouraged that Fripp may be "unapproachable" backstage at a concert. Although I have never met the man face-to-face, he is rather friendly. Last spring I felt compelled to write Fripp a short letter based on my liking of "A Blessing of Tears". Still cannot remember what I wrote in that letter... Well, it must not have been too stupid. Several months later (July '96), long after I forgot about writing to my favorite musician, I recieved a post card from Fripp thanking for the "...kind words..." Fripp, a nice guy he is. Brian Baggett Abilene, TX-USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:10:14 +0100 From: Ferenc Riesz Subject: Yet another Schizoid Man; Tippett question Hello ETers ! Long time ago I have written about an excellent Hungarian group After Crying. They undertake early Crimson's legacy yet their music is original, not a simple copy. Now they released a collection celebrating their 10 year anniversary. It contains a live recording of KC's 21st Century Schizoid Man. Pretty good interpretation IMHO. The double CD's title "Elso" e'vtized" (means "first decade"). Write for more info. ******** I wonder if there is any family relation between our Keith Tippett and the British composer Michael Tippett. Marry Xmas and happy new year to all, and special thanks to Toby, Dan and Mike for this excellent list. RF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:06:46 -0500 (EST) From: Darren Hess Subject: Finally, a positive comment about the video. It is unavoidable to set aside ALL expectation; that said, from all the blather I've read about the Live in '95 video, I was expecting something awe-less. Maybe as a result of uncritical expectations themselves, the mostly negative "opinions" expressed in these pages serve no function. Buy the video and accept its minor flaws. You owe it to yourself as a Crimhead. If the live show is a hot date, the Live in '95 is a steamy yet tasteful porno. (Another in a series of questionable analagies). BTW, way to to Adrian! You're as good at well-placed verbal attack-and-defense as you are at being a musician. -Darren ------------------------------ From: Curt Salada Subject: re: 2 Sides of Fripp's 'Tude Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 13:55:54 -0500 I realize that "over the years" Mr. Anderson has "met or hung out with musicians of absolute world class caliber," (and who would argue with a fine pedigree like that?) and it seems to me that as such an enlightened fellow, he "might have some vague understanding" of the absolute world class caliber of the King Crimson organization. He chose, however, to belittle King Crimson's acheivements with seventh-grade excretory imagery. Certainly I need not defend King Crimson, especially in this forum. ("I'd sooner defend a lion.") I would say that as Mr. Anderson was contributing to a newsletter for King Crimson enthusiasts, the onus was on *him* to convince the readers that King Crimson is less than a world class musical group. However, he offered no evidence to that end. Nor did he provide a definition, even his own personal definition, of what "world class" means. Mr. Anderson makes a valid point when he says that Fripp's "space" both shelters him from attention and draws attention to himself. Silly as it may be, this is part of what makes King Crimson so entertaining, and it seems harmless enough. But making this point is not enough for Mr. Anderson. He goes on to tell us that what "puts this all into perspective" for him is how trivial all of this "ROCK" stuff is in light of his experience as "someone who grew up in and around the Metropolitan Opera house." (He knows complex music when he hears it, by crackey.) The pomposity! Perhaps if the "well known NYC studio brass player" to whqom Mr. Anderson refers so reverently had acheived the notoriety of a Robert Fripp, that person would act a little silly, too. Mr. Anderson, if you think King Crimson is just another "turd," you're on the wrong mailing list -- try the Alban Berg Internet Newsletter. And get your head out of your brass "(lit and fig)". Curt Salada ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:05:14 +0100 From: H dot J dot W dot M dot Scheepers at nl dot cis dot philips dot com (H.J.W.M.Scheepers) Subject: Inspiration Dear all For a number of months I read the ET messages, which are interesting to take notice. For me, KC is still important music, especially for one reason. Since a few years I make artwork using soft pastels in vivid colours. In the beginning of 1996 I had the first exhibition of 10 pieces I made. To my surprise 9 were sold in a couple of days. During the last years I move from figurative to more abstract works. People ask me where I get my inspiration from. Well, ET-readers can guess... For me, Lizard is still the number one album; my aim is to make an artwork which can resemble just one song of KC. While listening to one of the albums, I visualize what I hear. And even listening to over 100 times (!) to Lizard still brings more aspects and therefore pictures. Next month I have a double exhibition: one at Mr. Boonstra's office (headquarter of Philips Electronics in Eindhoven, three months) and one in Origin business room in the PSV soccer stadium, also in Eindhoven for two months. (I was asked for them, I did not request.) Come and take a look. More exhibitions are planned, even until February 2000. Cheers, and enjoy the real music. Hans. ------------------------------ From: David Maclennan Subject: KC Live in Japan video Date: 19 Dec 1996 09:25:31 +1200 I'd have to endorse positive comments about the new Live in Japan video in the last ET. I got it last week and I'm pretty pleased with it - it is, after all, the only live KC I've ever seen apart from the snippets in the "Careful With That Axe" video! Yes, some of the footage is a bit blurry. In fact, I'd say that more than a little of the camera work and editing looks plain amateurish. However, as noted, there are plenty of good closeups and the sound is very good, as are the performances. Any KC fan not happy with this video is too damn fussy, IMHO! However, as others have noted, there are problems with my copy: the top of the picture is slightly distorted throughout (poor NTSC to PAL transfer is my guess - I have the same problem on a Bjork video I got recently), and there's sound drop-out on "Dinosaur" especially, but also to a lesser extend on "B'Boom" and "VROOOM VROOOM". I really do think DGM could have exercised more quality control with this video. My complaints are by no means the only ones, it seems. I hope they are planning to do something about it very soon. David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:29:21 +0100 From: GW Subject: Alice / Belew The other day my wife bought a record from italian singer Alice: "Charade" (1995). Listening to it I noticed some very familiar sounds ... made by Trey Gunn and the California Guitar Trio ! Small world .... -------------------- My one cent at the "Is Adrian Belew any good for KC"-threat : Adrian is _absolutely_ brilliant ! He has been part of KC for 15 years, so what is this whole discussion about !? I also like John Wetton a lot, the 73/74-KC is an inseparable part of my 1970ies memories. But it is a completely different thing, just the name "King Crimson" is the same (it seems that this is the problem for many people. Perhaps Robert Fripp should have kept "Discipline" as the band's name). Ciao Gerd W. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 1996 01:31:57 -0000 From: "Thomas B" Subject: In defense of Adrian/RE: double-shows drivel ETers in elephant talk rob at popper dot ced dot berkeley dot edu wrote: >I continue to be one of the few Bay Area fans to catch double shows -- both the Berkeley Greek and Marin Civic Center double-trio fall '95 shows.< I'd think Rob, that you'd be the only bay area fan to catch those double shows stated above since the Berkeley Greek show was mid year '96. ;-) The Wild Colonials opened--what happened to that guy from Living Color? The Berkeley venue you meant in Fall '95 was Zellerbach Hall, as I went to the Zellerbach and Marin Civic shows, as well as the Greek show in mid '96--I had 8th row seats for that one--a very good friend surprised me with those tix. Did you catch any of the Warfield shows? I went to the middle night. Did you see the Fripp/Sylvian show at Zellerbach with Michael Brook opening and playing during F/S? and how 'bout the Guitar Trio/Frippscapes shows?--I caught the one at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz and Robert seemed quite in his element casually walking through the crowd several times with axe in hand even performing from the floor itself. Saw KC at the Berkeley Greek during the ToaPP tour, too. That show was great, we got to talk to Robert for some time before that show as we had general tix and knew that there's a general ticket section on the floor in front of the reserved section, which has since disappeared. He asked us what we were doing there so early and we said we wanted to meet him/talk to him. Other band members were there, too--I remember Tony and Bill walking by. Then we were treated to a great sound check and were quite surprised when they broke out "Red". Anyone remember the name of "the fucking juggler". Had tickets for RFSQ at the Catalyst, but missed the show 'cause I had tickets down front at shoreline to see the Grateful Dead. I'm sure I'll have a chance to see R. Fripp and Adrian again, but not Jerry Garcia--see what too many Big Macs and Heroin can do to you? :-( At least my buddy who made it to the RFSQ show bought me the video for my birthday. And have you seen Adrian Belew (The Catalyst 2 or three times), the Bears(Berkeley Square, The Catalyst), and Adrian with the Psychodots (The Catalyst)? How 'bout Adrian at the Guitar Player anniversary concert--who could forget Purple Haze? or at the Music in the Movies benefit for the Marin Film Festival where many people performed and Adrian played with Stewart Copeland on drums and Stanley Clarke, I believe, on bass. This bill was capped by a performance of Tangerine Dream. Adrian, you finally came to your own defense. I still think you are one of the greatest American guitar players alive today. And you'll probably remain that way if you stay away from helicopters and Jerry Garcia's habits . I still remember you donning those dark shades and covering Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman" at the Catalyst--that night was the best I've seen you play outside of KC. Wish I could have a tape of that night that's for sure. I know that someone has a copy--the guy next to me was taping. Thanks for all the great memories and those to come. --Thomas B. 'In the first issue of i/e Magazine, Steve [Roach] said his concerts are "... not about going to see an entertainer. It's about going to have an experience with the sound, with the music." There's only so much feeling you can get from a CD; the music's there and technically better than what you'd hear live, but the spirit is missing.'--Cliff Tuel *--------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *--------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 21:55:58 -0800 From: stickman Organization: Existentialist Presuppositionalist Monks of Music & Passion Subject: Out of Phase Crimson I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I was wondering if any of you have experimented with your Crimson CDs with out of phase stereo. It is a technique used to process the two channels of stereo recordings into a "new" third channel, uncovering "hidden" sounds in stereo recordings. The resulting signal is a single channel, mono signal. This was also known as "Left Minus Right". When Quadraphonic recording was fashionable in the seventies, Left Minus Right was used as an inexpensive way of creating a new, third channel. Now we call it surround sound. Hooking up your stereo for this third channel is quite easy. I have a special cable i use that I made for a couple bucks hooked up between my CD player and my amp. Anybody interested in how I made it, e-mail me privately. Others get the third channel by hooking up a speaker to one wire that is connected to ONLY both the (+) terminals of both left and right speaker outputs. I've never heard of this being harmful to one's stereo, but maybe try it on an old amp and some beat up speakers to be on the safe side. Also, surround sound systems are the same thing as this for those of you with money. Simply turn off your front speakers and listen to the "surround." Most of the time, what you'll hear is NO vocal (or very little) with an emphasis on one particular instrument. Oddly though, the mumbled chanting speaking at the end of Larks Tounges P.1 is very audible (Check it out!). On Discipline You can really hear what Fripp is doing under belew (check out Elephant talk). On some cuts Bruford's drumming will be right out in Front (on a side note, Yes's "Roundabout" will have no lead vocal or bass, Bruford's drums really shine out, especially towards the end). If anyone can recommend their favorite Out of Phase Crimson, i'd love to hear from you- STICKMAN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:29:44 +0900 From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (Tomoyuki Ohsawa) Subject: Tokyo Live Video Wowow Channel Hi, Peter dot Flach at kub dot nl (Peter A. Flach) wrote >The interesting thing is that most of the music on the video is also on a bootleg CD I bought some months ago called "The Double Trio", which saysit's "recorded live at the "Nakano Sun Plaza" in Tokyo, Japan, on October5th, 1995" (the video is recorded on October 5/6). The setlist of the bootleg is very similar to the video (titles taken verbatim): > I remember that the satellite TV channel "Wowow" (owned by Japan Satellite Broadcasting) recorded the live show at Sun Plaza in Tokyo in October that year. I am not sure if that recording is the one you are looking at but it could be. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:34:39 +0900 From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (Tomoyuki Ohsawa) Subject: Steve Hackett and Ian McDonald/John Wetteon Hi, The Dec 17 concert of Steve Hackett and Friends (McDonanld, Wetton, Thompson, Colbeck) at Tokyo Kohsei Nenkin Kaikan (Welfare Fund Hall) in Shinjuku, Tokyo was video-recorded live by the satellite channel Wowow (owned by Japan Satellite Broadcast). The concert was more than great covering KC titles ITCCK and I Talk to the Wind. I will post a review separately on this. Dec 17 was more than two times better than Dec 16 gig (you can read my review on this in previous ET). There should be a satellite broadcast of this show. I don't know when exactly but probably pretty soon. Tom ************************************************** Tomoyuki Ohsawa Entertainment Business Development Department Sony Corporation ************************************************** ------------------------------ Subject: Report on the Gig by Steve Hackett & Friends From: garage_sale at juno dot com Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 07:53:32 EST I'm forwarding this from the Gentle Giant list as some KC alumni are involoved and performing songs from the first album Happy Holidays, Mark B. Weber garage_sale at juno dot com --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Hiroshi Nagano To: on-reflection at darkwing dot uoregon dot edu Subject: gg: Re: No GG: Additional Report on the Gig by Steve Hackett & Friends Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:25:29 -0800 Message-ID: <32B8FBF9 dot 6E1B at po dot infosphere dot or dot jp> Hello GGists: The performance by Steve Hackett & Friends in the gigs on 16 and 17 December, 1996 is summarized as below. There were not a big difference between the two gigs. They will trip around Nagoya and Osaka to play. I. Date: 16 and 17 December, 1996. II. Fee (Tax Included): 7,000 yen (S Seat) and 6,000 yen (A Seat). III. Weather: Fine, windy, and a bit cold (16th); Rainy and warm (17th). IV. Time: 1910 through 2050 (16th); 1910 through 2100 (17th). V. Place: Kousei-Nenkin Kaikan (, which means "Welfare Pension Hall"). VI. Lineup (and Biography by the Japanese promoter, UDO): Steve Hackett (ex GENESIS), John Wetton (ex KING CRIMSON, ex ROXY MUSIC, ex URIAH HEEP, ex ASIA, and a present member of UK), Ian McDonald, (ex KING CRIMSON and ex FOREIGNER), Julian Colbeck, and Chester Thompson (ex FRANK ZAPPA, ex WEATHER REPORT, ex GENESIS, and a present member of PHIL COLLINS GROUP). VII. Representative Tune: 1. WATCHER OF SKIES (Opening Number): Steve Hackett (Guitar, Gibson's PM Custom, Black, with Kehler Tremolo Unit; Backing Vocal), John Wetton (Lead Vocal), Ian McDonald (MIDI Keyboard with Bass sound; Backing Vocal), Julian Colbeck (MIDI Keyboards with the sound of Strings Mellotron, Hammond, and others), and Chester Thompson (Sonor's Drums). 2. FIRTH OF FIFTH: Steve Hackett (Guitar, Gibson's PM Custom, Black, with Kehler Tremolo Unit), John Wetton (Bass; Lead Vocal), Ian McDonald (Flute; Gibson's Semi-Acoustic Guitar), Julian Colbeck (MIDI Keyboards with the sound of Strings Mellotron, Hammond, Piano, and others), and Chester Thompson (Sonor's Drums). 3. THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING without THE DANCE OF THE PUPPETS: Steve Hackett (Guitar, Gibson's PM Custom, Black, with Kehler Tremolo Unit; Backing Vocal), John Wetton (Bass; Lead Vocal), Ian McDonald (Flute; MIDI Keyboard with Strings Mellotron sound; Backing Vocal), Julian Colbeck (MIDI Keyboards with the sound of Strings Mellotron, and others), and Chester Thompson (Sonor's Drums). 4. HEAT OF THE MOMENT (Acoustic Version): Steve Hackett (Acoustic Classic Guitar; Backing Vocal), John Wetton (Acoustic Guitar; Lead Vocal), Ian McDonald (Acoustic Guitar; Backing Vocal), Julian Colbeck (Standing next to Steve with smile, on the left-hand side of the stage), and Chester Thompson (Hiding in the drums). 5. I TALK TO THE WIND: Steve Hackett (Guitar, Gibson's PM Custom, Black, with Kehler Tremolo Unit; Backing Vocal), John Wetton (Bass; Lead Vocal, Lower Part), Ian McDonald (Flute; Lead Vocal, Upper Part), Julian Colbeck (MIDI Keyboards with the sound of Strings Mellotron, Flute Mellotron, and others), and Chester Thompson (Sonor's Drums). 6. I KNOW WHAT I LIKE (Final and the Second Encore Tune): Steve Hackett (Guitar, Gibson's PM Custom, Black, with Kehler Tremolo Unit; Lead Vocal), John Wetton (Bass; Backing Vocal), Ian McDonald (MIDI Keyboard with Clavinet sound; Backing Vocal), Julian Colbeck (MIDI Keyboards with the sound of Mellotron, Hammond, and others), and Chester Thompson (Sonor's Drums). VIII. Audience: Majorly consisted of over 25 years old fellows, as observed. IX. Other Impressive Remarks: 1. Steve Hackett played Blues Harp on some tunes. 2. Some tunes from other representative GENESIS' album(s), such as WIND AND WUTHERING, were also played. This report will be revised in detail as possible, if necessary. 3. Chester Thompson partly used Twin Pedal Unit for one bass drum and synthesized pads (Simmons? Could not seen clearly). 4. No costume and gimmick to fly over the stage. Surely no creature like a gigantic pink pig (Does anyone remember?). 5. Whereas Julian Colbeck was a member of ABWH on the US tour, for MIDI programming and support play, the audience's response on 16th was just as "Hey, who is he?" 6. Ian McDonald was supported by the audience's enthusiastic response. It seems to attribute to the following two reasons. (1) He has once visited Japan as a member of FOREIGNER; however, unfortunately, the press in those days underestimated him in terms of a multi-player and did not refer to his musical career as a member of King Crimson. (2) John Wetton paid great attention to Ian McDonald to introduce the two tunes from the KING CRIMSON's first album, with obviously emphasizing that the tunes were composed and played 27 years ago. 7. For the first encore, they played medley featuring Chester Thompson's drums solo. Just after Thompson's solo performance, Steve played the first half of the guitar solo of DANCING WITH THE MOONLIT KNIGHT. 8. The gig on 17th was officially taped by JSB (Japan Satellite Broadcast; "WOWOW"). 9. In accordance with the biography by the promoter, UK is now reunited. 10. According to the advertisement, CAMEL is coming to Japan to play on 21 and 22 March, 1997. Cheers for their magnificent play! _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ Nagano, Hiroshi _/ _/ E-Mail Address: generous at po dot infosphere dot or dot jp _/ _/ http://www.cup.com/generous/index.html _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ --------- End forwarded message ---------- ------------------------------ From: Steve Notoya Subject: Steve Hackett Live in Japan Hello, I went to Tokyo to see 2 shows of "Steve Hackett and Friends", 16th and 17th December. Hackett had never been to Japan, and it was his first Japan tour. They had shows also in Osaka (19th December) and Nagoya (20th December). These shows were very very fantastic and amzing, because they played not only Hackett and Genesis tunes but 2 Crimson songs "Court of the Crimson King" and "I Talk To The Wind". Steve Hackett and Friends is; Steve Hackett: electrci guitar, acoustic guitar, harmonica, vocals. John Wetton: bass, vocals, bass pedals, electric guitar, acoustic guitar. Julian Colbeck: keyboards. Chester Thompson: drums, percussion. Ian McDonald: flute, sax, keyboard, vocals, electric guitar, acoustic guitar This lineup is for ONLY Japan tour. Set list (16th December 1996) 1) Watcher of the Skies. 2) Riding the Colossus. 3) Firth of Fifth. 4) Battle Lines. 5) Camino Royale. 6) Court of the Crimson King. 7) Horizons. 8) Walking Away from Rainbows. 9) Heat of the Moment. 10) In That Quiet Earth. 11) Vampyre with a Healthy Appetite. 12) I Talk To The Wind. 13) I Know What I Like. 14) Shadow of the Hierophant - Drums Solo - Los Endos - Dancing with Moonlit Knight - Los Endos. 15) Acoustic Guitar Solo. 16) The Steppes. Set list (17th December 1996) 1) Watcher of the Skies. 2) Riding the Colossus. 3) Firth of Fifth. 4) Battle Lines. 5) Camino Royale. 6) Court of the Crimson King. 7) Horizons. 8) Walking Away from Rainbows. 9) Heat of the Moment. 10) In That Quiet Earth. 11) Vampyre with a Healthy Appetite. 12) I Talk To The Wind. 13) Shadow of the Hierophant - Drums Solo - Los Endos - Dancing with Moonlit Knight - Los Endos. 14) Acoustic Guitar Solo. 15) The Steppes. 16) I Know What I Like. I heard a rumor that LIVE ALBUM would be released next year. *** Steve Notoya *** BOOTs From the Edge *** http://www.bekkoame.or.jp/~not/yes/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 03:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: Joseph Basile Subject: Hord/video/Belew Hi, My brother in law saw KC for the first time at Pittsburgh Hordes.He said he never saw to better guitarist on the same stage.Then he said no. I've never seen any better musisians on one stage! Also A brother's inlaw Andy thirty of ERIE, PA.(a great guitaist in his own right)watched the new video with me over Thanks giving .Andy has not heard of KC. As a guitarist he was in awe at the timeing and power of this double trio! Andy was also impressed how the band particularllyy Fripp seemed to enjoy keeping time while the other members would soar! He also saw countless influences on todays music from the early 80 songs. Pretty good observations for a rookie On BELEW's last Mailing (if IT was him?)ON the first Dicipline album I thought he got in the way until the SHELETERINGG SKY! Then I realised his true team value! Yes I a RF fan , but this King Crimson is KC ,and I for one love your contributions! Most knowlegable fans I've talk to agree. You, like KC is an aquired taste. Merry Christmass JS. BASILE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:11:37 -0800 From: Chris Mitchell Organization: University of Tennessee, U.S.A Subject: Red cello revisited Regarding my last post...I double checked and the Red liners DON'T mention a cello (oops). But I remember seeing that somewhere...a book or interview perhaps. happy holidays to all, chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:06:15 -0500 From: Psny96 at aol dot com Subject: sylvian/fripp damage availability Hi all In past issues there has been talk about the decreasing availability of "Damage" by Sylvian and Fripp. I have seen it for sale at the following web site: http://www.demon.co.uk This is a United Kingdom site called Pastel Blue CD's and Videos. Even after the currency exchange the price is reasonable. Do a search for Robert Fripp at this site to find it and other titles. As for the last issue #320, Adrian couldn't be more right. All for now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 23:32:52 +0100 From: GW Subject: Wetton / Hackett in Japan I found the following posting in the recent ASIAN ARMADA, it might be of some interest for the crimso-philes: *** quotation on *** From: Yoshihiro Yamaguchi Subject: STEVE HACKETT & FRIENDS CONCERT REPORT Dear Dave and Armada Friends, Last night (16 Dec 96) I went to the "Steve Hackett & Friends" concert which featured John Wetton, Ian McDonald(ex-King Crimson), Chester Thompson(Genesis), and Julian Colbeck(ex-support keyboardist for ABWH) at Shinjuku Kousei Nenkin Kaikan Hall in Tokyo. The concert started around 7:10 pm with the Genesis song, "Watcher of the Skies" sung by John without his bass. Since this concert was Steve Hackett's first live appearance to the Japanese audiences and mainly to promote his "Genesis:Revisited" album, John was trying to keep his stance as one of Steve's support player and not the main act. However, John had sung most of the songs and the highlight of the show (at least for me) was when they played "In the Court of the Crimson King" *** !!! *** together. It was a big surprise for me and for most people who were there that evening. They played the song almost exactly to the original version with Ian on flute, but since this was my first time to see and listen John perform "In the Court...", this concert became something really special to me! In this concert, John played two songs of his own, "Battle Lines" and "The Heat of the Moment (Acoustic Version)". Especially, "The Heat of the Moment" sounded the best among John's solo career with extraordinary Steve and Ian's harmony vocals. The concert ended at 9:00 pm, but it really made me feel that I wanted to see them perform more. If they will be performing in your town, you should never miss this one or you'll regret forever! Yoshihiro Yamaguchi yafyaf at yk dot rim dot or dot jp *** quotation off *** Ciao Gerd W. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:38:44 -0800 From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: Weird Person's Guide to King Crimson Vol 2 The following appears in many lists, but I have not been able to find a detailed description of it until now. A Weird Person's Guide to King Crimson Vol. 2 (Invasion Unlimited IU 9426-1) 1. Train to hell 5.22 2. Trio 7.58 These two tracks were recorded at the Palace Theatre (Waterbury CT) on 6 May 1973. Sound quality is poor-to-fair. The performance is good (the parts that I can hear), but not as polished as on "The Great Deceiver". 3. Newly-weds 2.45 4. Under the sky 4.01 5. She is loaded 3.14 These three are by Giles Giles and Fripp. This is the first time I have heard anything by them. I think I understand now why their album initially sold only 600 (?) copies. The notes state that Fripp does the vocals on "Newly-weds". I can't tell. I suppose it's possible. "Under the Sky" written by Sinfield is actually quite good and the best of the set. The hippie-type lyrics seem appropriate for those times. The chorus sounds very much like the Lettermen, although the Gileses were probably trying to sound like the Beach Boys. 6. Why don't you just drop in? 6.27 Recorded at the Jazz Club (Chesterfield) on 7 Sept 1969. Sound quality is very poor. Ian McDonald's saxophone is barely audible. Sung by Lake to the tune of "The Letters" but with different and much darker lyrics. This would have been excellent if only the sound were better. 7. Don't go away little girl 3.10 This is a 1967 single from Shame. It reminds me of Noel Redding's "Little Miss Strange" (I don't remember which one came first). This performance is mainly of historical interest. Like most of the pop of that era, it is very easy to get tired of. Lake does a good job on vocals though. 8. Travel Weary Capricorn/Devil's Triangle total time 29.17 Recorded at the Jazz Club (Chesterfield) on 7 Sept 1969. Again the sound quality is very poor but I like it mainly because the intro sounds like that of "Exiles". The notes state that the Devil's Triangle includes something called "Yadda Ho". This is the first time I have heard of this title. I have no idea what it could be. There are faint unidentifiable sounds, like a second radio station coming in. At first I thought it was "scat-singing" by Giles. Has he ever done that? I could not understand any lyrics. This is an interesting piece. However if you want really outstanding live performances of "Travel Weary Capricorn" and "Mars", then you should get the "Frame by Frame" collection. 9. Larks tongues in aspic (Part 1) Recorded for the Beat Club TV show (Bremen) Nov 1972 (should be 17 Oct????). Primarily interesting because it features Jamie Muir. Better sound quality than the other live cuts. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:24:23 MST7MDT6,M4.1.0,M10.5.0 From: "MARK L. JAKUSOVSZKY" Subject: Exposure Soundbites I just received my copy of Exposure and enjoy it immensely. It is the only album of its kind, IMHO, because it shows much of the versatility of RF's composition, collaboration, and playing skills. From soundscapes to 'pop' to audio collages with haunting vocals, there are pieces of much of what he'd done before and since. Anyway, I'm not intending a review, though it's worth what I paid through Possible Productions. I'm looking for someone with some decent PC equipment to extract 2 of the soundbites from this CD that I would love to have; 1) the phrase that starts,"If you know you have an unpleasant nature......", and 2) the phrase that starts,"It is impossible to achieve the aim...." I think that these would make great 'event' sounds for windows in WAV format. If anybody has the proper setup to produce this, please let me know via private email. Merry Crimsmas all! Thanks, Mark J. ************************************************************************** * * * Mark Jakusovszky markj at atmel dot com * * Mixed Signal & Wireless Marketing * * Atmel Corporation MERRY XMAS! * * Colorado Springs, CO * * * * BETTER THAN AVERAGE * * U.S. News & World Report says that one poll of university professors * * found that 94% of the respondents thought that they were better at * * their jobs than their average colleague. (U.S. News & World Report * * 16 Dec 96 p26) * * * ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Heinisch" Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:25:54 +0000 Subject: (Fwd) Recommendation of 10secs Hi, 'cause some guys asked about the 10seconds/Fripp collaboration, I wrote a short "evaluation" some time ago, regrettably it got lost, so I offer it once again. Funnily, I received a short message from Bill Forth, a few days after having sent the original text. It is included below. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Recommendation of 10secs Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:06:02 I'd like to highly recommend the musical collaboration of Jeff Fayman, Bill Forth and Bob Fripp as featured on the Ten Seconds album. The superior quality of this musical adventure was hinted at on the DGM-Sampler (Track "The last three minutes pt.2"). While Fayman and Forth care for the the strong impulses (guitar and keyboards), Fripp excellently and incessantly guides the soundscapes at about half of the tracks to fill out any spaces.The other half is dominated by powerful guitar and vocals carrying a thought of hard rock and sometimes a little grunge in it. Most Crimsonians (or how you'd call yourself) will find yourself comfortable and "at home" at once. I reallly hope that this won't be the end of any collaborations between Fripp and 10 Secs - I'm longing to hear more of them! Sorry that this isn't a real review, but I just thought I should share my thoughts about it. BRoooHaHa, Olaf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:44:03 +0100 (MET) From: Cipresso Francesco Subject: 2 more sides of Fripp's 'tude Hi everybody. After reading several ET Digests,I realized my possible contributions to them. The first,however,must surely be the one concerning Fripp's behaviour,which have been heavily debated these days:I've got my own stories about it... I saw Fripp performing live 5 times till now:once with the League of Crafty Guitarists,twice with David Sylvian and twice again with Crimso. In the occasion of his first concert with David Sylvian in Bassano del Grappa (my hometown)on June 27th,1992,I was lucky enough to approach him when he stepped out of the hotel totally on his own,with his Gibson in his left hand and a pair of clothes in the other. There was no other people around,except for my parents(dad was taking some snapshot to celebrate the moment!),and Robert seemed quite peaceful:shakin' hands and signin' autograph were easily welcomed,though he didn't speak that much,as usual. Then,after the other show with David Sylvian(and Trey Gunn + Pat Mastellotto) held in the same venue on November 17th,1993,was over,when he came out of the backdoor,where Ii was waiting for hm with 5/6 otherguys, he was very cautious and,when I leaned my hand on his shoulder and begged him:"Next time with Crimso,Bob",he just replied "Maybe"(fulfilling his promise two years later!),slinking inside the bus and refusing to shake hands with a guy. The bus couldn't leave because of the people in front of it,so Fripp let the window down and signed all of our tickets. On the two Crimso gig I attended,such contrasting behaviours were confirmed; he smiled and waved a hand to the crowd in Mestre(May 4th,'95),but acted like a ghost(except his terrific playing,of course!)during the rainy concert in Lignano(June 22nd,'96). Finally,going upon my personal little slice of contact with the man,I believe that,first of all,Fripp is "a rockstar in spite of his will";he's surely not very expansive,but he's got the right to live his life on the road as he prefers and,at least,his behaviour shows a high honesty about his feelings,not acting in the false "Do you love me?I love you too" way,like many others do. Thanks for reading & bye bye. FRANCESCO CIPRESSO cprssf01 at stud dot iuav dot unive dot it or Francesco Cipresso Via Costa 2/A 36061 - Bassano del Grappa VI - ITALY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:09:27 +0100 (MET) From: Cipresso Francesco Subject: That's "'MAYBE' breathing",man... Hello there, Crimheads! I've got my own contribution to "The Mincer" lyrics discussion. The following text has been copied from an italian book collecting all KC lyrics from ITCOTCK to ToAPP. Fingers reaching Linger shrieking. Jump off the screen Ggood nigh,Ruby. You're all alone Maybe breathing. They call Better looking But they don't come Manner. In my opinion,this source is quite reliable,having been attended by a very good translator,who's been able,in some other lyrics(i.e. "Happy Family")to write down the Italian lines keeping both the rhyme and the meaning of the words from the original text. Anyone who wants to contact me can e-mail me at: cprssf01 at stud dot iuav dot unive dot it or,if you prefer,here's my address. Francesco Cipresso Via Costa 2/A 36061 - Bassano del Grappa VI - ITALY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:08:48 -0500 From: david kirkdorffer Subject: "I was invited to look angry and irritable" -- Fripp, 1978 Hello Frippsters! Rummaging through old boxes back at home this fall, I came across a few Frippy nuggets. Interviews and the like. My kind 'bro Dan, will add the interviews to the ET Interviews Page soon enough I'm sure. Already there is a long Guitar Player interview from January 1986. It's quite interesting to experience Fripp's way of describing the dissolution of 80's KC, as well as introducing his Crafty school as it existed then. Also, 'spect to see old Melody Maker interviews from 1979 and 1981 soon... The difference between British and American music-magazines journalistic styles are quite apparent, and one can see why Fripp has occasionally stated his frustration with the Brit-press. David Kirkdorffer P.S. But, this little nugget is unique in its own way... Set the time-machine for: Christmas 17 years ago. Where were you when these were the headlines? ********************************************************************* DEBBIE & FRIPP -- A SCREEN SENSATION Melody Maker=20 December 23, 1978 After Olivia Newton John and John Travolta, prepare for rock'n' roll's next silver-screen twosome: Debbie Harry and (gasp!) Robert Fripp. The singer from Blondie and the former King Crimson guru will team up in the remake of Alphaville, the futuristic detective-story move written and directed by Jea-Luc Godard in 1966. Chris Stein, Blondie's guitarist (and Debbie Harry's paramour), will collaborate on the direction of the new version with New York avant-garde film-maker Amos Poe - although they may invite the participation of Nicholas Roeg, who directed Performance and The Man Who Fell To Earth, respectiveely vehicles for Mick Jagger and David Bowie. Fripp will play the detective Lemmy Caution, and Harry will take the part of Natasha Von Braun, originally played by Anna Karina. Eddie Constantine, the American who played Caution in the Godard version, will appear as "an older detective," while journalist Glenn O'Brien - a former editor of Andy Warhol's magazine, InterView - will play Professor Von Braun. Does Fripp feel that, by being chosen to play a battered detective, he is being typecast? "Well, at what they were kind enough not to tell me was a screen-test, I was invited to look angry and irritable =96 and that=92s something I can = do with ease." And Debbie Harry? "She was merely invited to look bland." Harry has already appeared in two films, The Foreigner and Empty Beds, both directed by Poe - who is well known in New York `underground' movies. Fripp says that financing the movie appears to present few problems, and shooting may well begin in New York this summer, lasting about five weeks. "It's contingent on three factors: the next Blondie album and the tour to promote it; my solo album; and finding a producer. Fripp's album, 'Exposure' will be released in late March on the Polydor label, it has been delayed by contractual difficulties with the singers who appear on it. Blondie, for instance, had promised to perform on one track, but their appearance was canceled the day before the recording session when Chrysalis refused to permit Debbie Harry to contribute. Fripp himself appeared on one track, "Fade Away And Radiate," of Blondie's last album, and has recently performed with them on stage in New York. END ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 16:15:20 -0500 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: A thread too far ? What a really superb interview with Bill Forth. It's really quite refreshing to read about the creative processes, trials and tribulations of the artist, related in such a simple and honest way. I have to confess that outside of the recent DGM sampler that I had not heard anything of TEN SECONDS. Funnily enough though, after the stuff with Bill I think their album will be one of my first new year purchases. I realise that it's difficult to feature these interviews all the time. That said, they do give ET a more authoritative feel. The reprint with Brufford from eastern Europe and the recent Net transcript from Trey Gunn, provide definitive material for fans to 'digest' and comment upon. Of course, when fans of any description get together there are bound to be conflicting opinions and views. This too is part of the appeal of ET. Where else could I talk to somewhere in the region of 5,000 fans world wide on the subject of King Crimson ? The debate and discussion of any subject in such forums can lead to many useful insights as well as an equal amount of trivial blind alleyways. Certainly reading Adrian Belew's recent post left me in very little doubt as to where he thought the thread concerning his own merits was going. Certainly the thread about Fripp's attitude towards fans has started to get slightly uncomfortable and both threads have at varying times verged on being personally abusive for my liking. Lets just remember that constructive criticism is fine. It's when it starts getting inflammatory and dogmatic that the wheel starts to fall off. I'm not saying that there should only be positive or sycophantic coverage of the band, its members or its music. That would be too dull. However, lets remember why where all here and keep some perspective on it all. A peaceful Christmas and new year to Crimheads (and even King Crimson members) the world over. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:31:34 -0800 (PST) From: michael damian jeter Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #319 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 18:37:58 GMT >From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) >Subject: KC At Horde > >karen minder wrote... > >> Getting the passes was kind of a big deal for us and the only thing >> that was asked of us was that we must not under any circumstances >> approach Mr. Fripp for any reason whatsoever. > >Give Fripp's apparent life-long aversion to all things 'showbiz', does >anyone else see the contradiction here? No. I do not. Robert himself has an aversion to this, but since he is a very warm and loving, although private and shy person, he will allow folks to enjoy themselves, within limits. Given that KC is, ultimately, his band, it's his right to do so. Given that this is who he is, and that who he is continues to create wonderful music, I would be afraid of him becoming any other type of person. > >Christi Wrote: >I must close with a comment on an old thread. I keep seeing the recurrence >of the "Is Adrian Belew any good for Crimson or what?" discussion in this >here space. I am baffled by the existence of such a notion. As am I. Those who argue that Adrian is untalented are, essentially saying that they know more about judging talent than Frank Zappa, David Bowie, David Byrne, Laurie Anderson, Paul Simon, Trent Reznor, and, oh yeah, Some guy named Fripp. >I must >confess to being thoroughly charmed by Adrian--his gamboling energy and >wicked, string bending noise making. I notice that it seems like most >everyone prefers the Bruford/Wetton/Fripp lineup overall, or at least >prefer it to '80's Crimson (not that I've conducted any polls). I realize >that the B/W/F lineup might be "better" in some sense of the word, and when >things worked, they REALLY worked (like in the Great Deceiver box set). Every version of KC has had a different form of magic, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. >But I like the '80s group a lot better and I'll tell you why. AB... >can bee a little too poppy at times, even for me), but he's sure part of >it. He closes the gap, makes the music more accessible (and not just >because of his poppy nature). Anyone else feel the same way? I do. >And I would love to see a box set of live '80s Crimson. As would I. Department of English, Kingsborough Community College, Brooklyn, NY Purpleheart Chapman Stick, #1139 Whatever you do, a teacher works harder than you do -- George Clinton, Central Park, NY, July 4, 1996 ------------------------------ From: "Dan Wasser" Subject: The Adrian Issue Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 23:13:33 -0500 Winner, Best Post: Victor Fiorillo Creative and made a decent point "Winner", Worst Post: Anton Swansorb Probably can't even tune a guitar Dan in Gaithersburg, Md. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 96 13:48:12 CST From: Paul Gelpi Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL Subject: re: Adrian's post and the criticism of AB Happy holidays fellow Crimso fans, For the past few months or so Adrian Belew has come under some rather intense and IMO unfounded criticism from some contributors. Recently he has responded personally to them. I've been rather reticent to enter into the fray on this one until now...so to say his post served as a catalyst. As fans and people we are all entitled to our own opinions and as the saying goes they are like a certain body part that every one has...myself included. However, a good deal more compassion/understanding is sometimes needed before a post is sent (by no means do I mean this a critique of Toby and Dan...they do an outstanding job with ET IMO). Adrian is the guitarist/lyricist/vocalist of Crimso for a reason. On his own he is an outstanding guitarist and songwriter and if the criticism of his playing is that its not like Robert Fripp's lets examine the critique. I think we all can agree that Robert is a unique instrumentalist as is Adrian...there is no reason to expect them to be the same IMO. If one prefers Crimso of the 1970s then so be it but please recognize that this (the double trio) is the Crimso of today. If one finds that AB's vocals don't match up to Wetton, Lake, Haskell, Dyble, or Burrell's OK but realize that none of them are the current vocalist. If one finds that AB's guitar musings are not to their satisfaction OK but realize that this is the Crimson King as Robert Fripp has chose to envision it. Likewise IMO if any member of the current Crimso chooses to jump ship so to say then the experiment will probably fold depriving us all of the experience of listening to new, living Crimso. More than ever it seems KC is a collective effort under Robert's aegis and all contribute something unique. It would serve us all well to remember that even before there was a double trio when Robert was beginning to reform Crimso earlier in the decade Adrian was a crucial component. Also, unlike other bands Crimso does not live in the past...songs like Red might be reinterpretated but they are just that a reinterpretation not a number in a set of greatest hits. All of this is to say that while we all may not prefer the current Crimso line-up it is afterall the only one we as fans have at the present and for this we should be appreciative. For those unfamiliar with Adrian's work outside of Crimso may I suggest you check it out...you'll probably be pleasantly suprised. If anyone cares to respond to me privately please do. Also if I've misrepresented anyone's thoughts or feelings I apologize in advance. Robert, Adrian, Bill, Pat, Trey, and Tony if you are reading happy holidays and thanks for all of the music. Toby thanks for ET and happy holidays. Happy listening and holidays, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:59:52 -0800 From: Chris Cariffe Subject: Adrian Belew Bashers I am getting quite bored of the bashing around here. If you don't dig the music try the folowing please to UNSUBSCRIBE. >UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to > et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at > http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ > King Crimson w/ Adrian Belew create some incredible music if your not into maybe you should try something else. chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:44:52 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: kind of sad. Kind of sad that Adrian Belew's idea of a decisive retort to his critics was 'could you do better?'. If that's the best he could do in *this* area, he shouldn't have bothered. Are we *sure* it really was AB? Kind of sad, but not surprising, that the general response to same was mostly a-whoopin' and a-hollerin' of the sort you'd hear from a daytime talk show audience. I think I counted *one* post that seemed as embarrassed for Mr. Belew as I was. Kind of sad that none of the 'dog pound' seems to realize it's possible to believe Mr. Belew is a fine musician while not liking aspects of his KC work. Myself, I *much* prefer when he just plays to when he sings, for example. I don't think he's great shakes as a lyricist either. This has nothing to do with whether I can write lyrics or not (I don't), and everything to do with listening to lots of other lyricists. But then, IMO, KC has *never* had a really first-rate lyricist. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:13:56 -0500 From: Datboy Subject: Next Crimson single: "Put Up Or Shut Up" I would like to hear Adrian's wonderful post turned into a Crimson song. Maybe I'll make an attempt to write one, and try to get the Crimsonisms out of my own music. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:18:25 -0700 From: gondola at deltanet dot com (E.B.) Subject: Re: Bowie/Eno/Belew >From: "M. S. AtKisson" > >If you think Bowie and Eno have 'lost it,' listen to Outside. I would never say that Eno has lost it. Bowie has, though. And yes, I've heard Outside. Sixteen years without a great album is enough to severely tarnish my opinion of Bowie's creative vitality. Sorry. Regarding Adrian's post, I was surprised. Personally, I just haven't thought that Adrian-bashing is all that dominant on this list. To me, most of the posts are too much on the fawning side, actually! There's a few anti-Adrian complaints here and there, but certainly Adrian should expect a bit of this when he joins an established "institution." And yes, I'm pro-Adrian. Heck, I still wonder if I'm the only "anti-Boz" person on this list. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:23:03 -0500 (EST) From: Nameless to the Goddess Subject: Three new members? Someone's rumour report mentioned three new members for KC's next release. Did my dream come true? I posted months ago and they listened? I know the new three talents: the Flecktones. Woohoo! Give me The Sinister Minister, complete with bass-trio: Gunn, Levin, and Wooten. (And Fleck would tear up on Discipline -> Bicyclops -> UFO Tofu). (: Other questions: what do the words in Gunn's The Third Star (Dziban, etc?) mean? Belew stepping aside--hey, I'd love to do some vocals. Sinister Minister <*> Church of Perelandra: http://www.afn.org/~afn39111 DREAMS OF TAKING THE VEIL--a rollercoaster reality ride ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 02:00:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Peter Thompson Subject: Adrian Having read Adrian Belew's message and the special ET devoted to responses I thought I might have my twopenn'orth. A band is always a sum of its parts. It is invidious to even begin to dissect the band into those parts. Music is about harmony and the whole that comes from those parts. I have generally found that the music produced by the individual members of KC to be less than satisfying. I find Belew's solo work to be rather naive; Fripp's can be self-indulgent; Trey Gunn's I know little about; Levin's playing and solo work is efficient in a way that session musician's work inevitably is. Drummers are different insofar as they can not happily exist on their own. Certainly I find Bruford's work with Yes to be painfully embarassing. Yet, together there is a magic usually lacking in other 'supergroups' (if I may use that term). Their collective musical egos are subverted to the cause of great music which is what KC produce. The oft-mentioned example of 'Dinosaur' is a prime example - a Belew song that lifted into another dimension with the input of Fripp and the rest of the band. I hope this is not an inappropriate simile but loving a band is like loving a person - you don't say 'well I love him/her but I wish his/her nose was smaller' or something like that. You accept that person warts and all. Indeed it is often the 'faults' that endears that person to you. ET should be a place where we can celebrate something that clearly means a lot to most of us, not slag it off. I guess that there are always going to be people who are so insecure as to spend time commenting negatively on things but they should be in a minority. I enjoyed Adrian's message immensely - I am sad that he should have been forced to say what he did. Lighten up ETers - music is one of the few positive forces in this anally-retentive world. Celebrate it. Peter Thompson Cambridge ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Belew Follies From: garage_sale at juno dot com Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 01:21:51 EST When KC returned in the '80's with Discipline and the subsequent tour, I was a bit skeptical. I was at first unimpressed with Discipline. The reason being is that I was listening to a lot of electronic and synth based stuff and I figured that's what Crimson was doing. I liked the cuts but I really wondered how this would come off live especially considering how good the Wetton Cross Bruford Fripp KC was live. The Discipline tour is one of the greatest performances I'd ever seen. It was a very special nite at the Park West in Chicago. Belew had a whole lot to do with the success of this show and the 80's KC. He is the sometimes loose cannon to Fripp's methodical playing. I think Adrian bounce and on stage personality helped take the edge off of the constant Fripp-Bruford tension. And hey, after two encores, who else could get Fripp to come back on stage for a bow and get Fripp to chuckle as he yanked on his tie? As an analogy, Adrian is Hendrix playing to Fripp's McLaughlin (this is just an analogy folks. i'm not talking reality here). And I'm very thankful for it. Looking forward to more new KC. Happy holidays, Mark B. Weber garage_sale at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 10:10:38 -0500 From: CmnSnse at aol dot com Subject: Adrian Bashing I was ashamed to be an ETer after I read AB's response in ET320. This entire Adrian-bashing thread makes the ET forum look like a bunch of fat guys at the sports bar, our marshmallow butts engulfing the barstool, arguing about which of us is the better shortstop (as opposed to the more relevant question: which of us is the better BACKstop). Many of us may be musicians or poets in our own right, but NONE of us are Adrian. The responses in ET321 were welcome, and we need more of them. I adore the democracy of the internet, but, just as if we were all at a KC concert, we have a concomitant responsibility to, as a group, tell the hecklers to shut up. Tom Payne Pueblo, Colorado ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 13:09:47 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Cervero Subject: Belew brouhaha and ballyhoo All of the arguments, babble, chit-chat, chit-chat, dissension over the Belew tiff, while certainly Elephant Talk, is unfortunately also cheap talk that can only divide this band! As someone who has followed ET over the years, and been fairly impressed by the quality and generally highminded dialogue, I was surprised and somewhat disappointed by Belew's post and even more by the follow-up, almost idol-worshiping snippets of his supporters ...a la, "way to go, Ade!". It goes without saying that Belew has contributed immensely to post-81 KC. To me, however, Belew's post came across as someone who feels underappreciated and thus compelled to spell out his contributions, unfortunately in a seemingly self-serving way. Whether Belew's portrayal of his contributions are on target or overblown, I'm not sure, however all this stuff over band members' relative value and importance can only be divisive to a band whose history has hardly been one of stability. This line-up, now trying put together the next album, has the potential to be around for a while, but airing out matters like these in cyberspace can only hurt these chances. ET should be a forum for honest, open dialogue about the band, with tolerance for differences of opinions. Dissonance has always sliced through Crimson music and certainly has a place in ET, though I pray we don't draw band members into any ET fracas and in so doing contribute to the band's undoing. When asked about Elephant Talk in an interview with a Hungarian newspaper, posted in ET, Bill Bruford offers the following: "I think in a way it encourages too much gossip....For a while it was very amusing... then it became less amusing". I can't wait till the next Crimson release and tour, which perhaps more than anything will be put ET commentary on the right track....in the interim, thanks for hanging in there Toby. Talk, talk. It's only talk....too much talk. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:16:31 -0500 From: PFripp at aol dot com Subject: Posting for Elephant Talk from Sister Patricia Fripp I thought Crimso fans might like to know that I had a terrific visit for 3 days with my brother in San Francisco recently. We went to see "The Long Kiss Goodnight." I had already seen it, but went again as Brother and I love seeing high action films together. He is now on his way to spend 10 days with Toyah over Christmas. She is starring in "Jack In The Beanstalk." While Robert was with me he shared the Business Aims of Discipline Global Mobile: A Small, Mobile and Independent Record Company. (Best way to get King Crimson and Fripp products) Thought you would like to see them. "The first aim of DGM is to help bring music into the world which would otherwise be unlikely to do so, or under conditions prejudicial to the music and / or musicians. The second air of DGM is to operate in the market place, while being free of the values of the market place. The third aim of DGM is to help the artists and staff of DGM achieve what they wish for themselves. The fourth aim of DGM is to find its audience. The fifth aim of DGM is to be a model of ethical business in an industry founded on exploitation, oiled by deceit, riven with theft and fueled by greed." When I was in Las Vegas recently, speaking at the Mirage Hotel, all the sound, lights and video guys were Fripp fans and had worked on the King Crimson concert at the Hard Rock Hotel last summer. Now they are fans of 2 Fripp's!! Many of Brother's fans email me. If anyone is interested on being on my 'frippnews' email column I am happy to add them to the list. It is full of business tips, not much about Brother...although he does get a mention every to often. For information on DGM best to email Michael at TRAPDOOR1 at aol dot com He is on his honeymoon at the moment, so wait until the New Year. Happy Holidays....Patricia Fripp...The Sister http://www.fripp.com PFripp at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 07:35:50 +0000 From: khoffman at giantfood dot com (Kurt Hoffman) Subject: Re: Too late for an Adrian thread? Hi, Due to an extremely cranky router, too much work and an email backlog (it has finally come to that!) I can only now get around to a thread on Belew and what he wrote (and to those of you who questioned if it was him, I can only say that Toby doesn't seem to run this like that- what possible purpose would it serve, and given the inflamatory nature of the thread I have faith as to its validity). Yes, it is true that Adrian does all the things he says he does, and I suspect that many on this email list have been in similar positions, that is in bands or performing or composing or arranging. As such, we do know the degree of dificulty that comes within the confines of attempting to produce the caliber of product that you do (no, this is not a denigration of the idea that this is art, just that in a consumer driven marketplace art becomes product or it is seldom seen and even less heard), and that is why we have opinions on it to the point where we actually sit and read these threads. As humans, and with all the egocentric selfishness that comes as part of that package (deny it or not- it is still there), we tend to forget that our admiration through consumption does not always translate into the thank you that people feel the need to have at the completion of a task. Also as humans many of us who occupy the darker side of things tend to use criticism as a form of analysis more so than we use praise (I for one have never taken a compliment seriously- not that I get that many!). Anyway, to not take up too much width on this I am going to open mouth and insert foot and say that I think the larger "why" of this whole thing might have more to do with the shift in what has become King Crimson. I have followed them for what seems like forever, and am happy to think that I was lucky enough to be experiencing their product as fresh releases since Islands came out. I have said it before and I'll say it again, this new product is great, but there are elements to it which make it easier for me to accept if I do not consider it as King Crimson. I know that this may all appear to be semantics, but I for one wish that the band had been named (and still was named) Discipline, as I have heard that it was the original intention for the band to be called that. I'm sure that many of you who have read this far are groaning right now, and I do not have the time nor desire to waste everyone's time with the why's of that opinion (feel free to ask in private- though it often takes me forever to reply), but since it seems there has become this rift within the psyche that has become so problematic as to lead us to this point (and since I doubt seriously that anyone who is on this list is capable of saying to themself that they doubt Mr. Belew's talents) I offer up that maybe the question isn't whether Adrian is good for Crimson, but whether this is Crimson or Discipline. I see those as to very different bands, and will continue to have the same problem with it that I would have had if Fripp had chosen to call The League of Gentlemen or Sunday All Over The World King Crimson (this is not to say that I am certain that Fripp chose to reuse the name- the version of the myth that I heard was that Discipline was Fripp's choice for the name, but since I know none of these people personaly to ask them, I go with whatever secondhand info I can- one of the beauties and terrors of the web- and can only feel that the the driving reason for calling this band King Crimson was consumer recognition- hell, Discipline is a better name in my opinion, or at least I feel that it does a better job of conveying in a word many of the factors that draw me to the music- though I do understand that there can be a negative psychosexual connotation to the word). The product that is now called King Crimson does not seem to have as much in common with the product that was called King Crimson betwen 1969 and 1974 (and even though I can see logic to the arguments that say there were extreme differences between those years, I do have reasons for my lumping those eras together). So maybe that is where the desire for threads about who is or isn't "worthy" of being in King Crimson come from, since I can't find other reasons that make sense. Feel free to hate me privately or publicaly. Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 09:53:48 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Jazz, Classical, Rock, & robot stuff Chris said: >A perfect example is that of jazz, which has experienced a quantum leap in >ascribed social status, from its birth in whorehouses to its current state >of concert-hall fossilization (a la Wynton Marsalis). Even when playing in >stinky, shitty clubs, Diz and Monk were geniuses equal to (if not >comparable to) Mozart, Bach, or whatever other genius of higher status you >prefer. >If reproduction of works hundreds of years old by mechanized automata (er, >"musicians") is a necessary condition for "good" music, we're doomed. What >is music -- a vehicle for class distinction or the means to move us >emotionally? Actually, I agree with your comments. This musician I mentioned in the post is a Jazz musician, so Trane, Bird, Diz and monk are Gods to him (I would think--I haven't asked him specifically about those names). So it's not really an issue of status. He (and my Dad) are saw Jazz practically die in the 70s, largely at the hand of rock and record company scum. I don't blame them too much for being bitter (and not being willing to listen to the best of rock), but i do agree that even popular rock has on rare occasions produced some real masterpieces. Actually, Mile's description of classical music is similar to yours, and quite humorous. "If you play something different from the other robots, the other robots get mad. Robot shit." -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 10:22:55 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: AB: Gaga Geek or Idiot Savant? First of all, Although I bet Adrian Belew probably has not lasted past the "blowback" from his response, I would like to thank him for contributing to this forum, despite the controversy he knew it would generate (but then again, "It's only talk...") But there is an issue here that I think Belew was responding to, one that the "Go Adrian!" posts seemed to have passed over. Adrian's contribution (as far as is obvious on the records) seems to concentrate on the pleasant, lighter side: the lyrics are all his, and his melodies tend to be rather hummable and melodic. Belew is the accessibkle side to King Crimson, so sometimes thos eof us who crave the more densly abstract side, Belew might appear a hindrance. I think this is in part what he was responding to. But let me digress........ Back in '81 or so, I went to see LOG at Irving plaza in NYC. The warmup band was Belew's Gaga, complete with taped drums. Although most in the audience reacted positively, some people resented the taped drums and called for a "drum solo!". One guy in the audience seemed to perpetually hold up a middle finger, which Belew commented on and obviously resented. As for myself, I was struck two ways by Belew: on one side, I loved the wild guitar sounds he was making. They were the distillation of what makes electrical guitar exciting. I can definitely say I had fun watching Belew and gaga. A the same time, however, there was an obvious air of showmanship that I sometimes wondered if it masked a real artisitc bankruptcy. Maybe Belew was all smoke and mirrors: a bunch of bullshit. A few months thereafter, I saw Belew with Talking Heads, and my opion was the same: Belew is enjoyable, but a novelty act. Fast forward past 80s KC to 1996: turned out I was wrong. Op Zop Too Wah. What I mistook for sheer showmanship was the joy he shares (with many of us) for the beauty, simplicity, and fun aspects of popular music and rock. I recently saw Mozarts "Magic Flute" at the Met, but this time with subtitles. And you know what? This piece that we always regarded as a heavyweight work of art was FUN! In King Crimson, Belew functions as not only a door, but a focal point. Belew is able to come up with these wonderful, strightforward tunes that can still function against the backdrop of a metric and melodic calculus. Let us remember that if we totally forget where the listener is at (to utterly "de-pop" the music), we end up with incomprehensible works such as Webern's "Six Bagatelles", or Coltrane "Jupiter/Variation" (both of which I love--so don't get me wrong). But you'll never see anybody "rocking out" to Webern. King Crimson is rock, because it ROCKS. And yes, I love pieces like Thrak. But to remove Adrian (or his function) would be to remove the bridge that allows me to access such pieces: it would reneder the balance far more analytical and abstract and Kill the entity that is KC today. -Emory. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 18:33:10 -0500 From: Emuguy5830 at aol dot com Subject: Michael Brook uh, I recently picked up Michael Brook's Live at the Aquarium and really enjoy. But I wonder how this can possibly be a live disc. The only performer is Brook playing guitar and synthesizer but it sounds like there is a full band playing. I assume he's using some kind of drum sample triggered by his guitar for bass and drums and then looping it, but it sounds too real to be samples. Does anyone know what is going? Also, what are Brook's other solo albums like? rgds matt c ------------------------------ From: "Fred Raimondi" Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:13:43 -0800 Subject: A response for Mr. Swansorb > Subject: A response for Mr. Belew > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:17:59 -0500 (EST) > From: aswansorb at aol dot com (Anton Swansorb) > I hate to tell > you this Mr. Belew, but YOU -- yes _YOU_ -- are replaceable. Crimson has > had many members past and present and there's no doubt in my mind that the > show would go on without you. With all due respect to the other members of KC........YOU -- yes _YOU_ Mr. Swansorb obviously do not understand the syngergy of an outfit like KC. Subtract one part, and its a different thing. A very different thing. KC is not Van Halen. You can't go plugging in new people and expect results. Its a lot more than 1 - 4 - 5 and a backbeat. Its more like a jet fighter or a race car that operates right on the edge of self destructing. You have brass balls my friend. By the way, what was the title of YOUR.....yes....YOUR last album. Fred Raimondi ------------------------------ From: "Bailey, Jim" Subject: My thoughts on a few recent threads Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:18:00 -0500 Hello again folks, Much of this may have been said before, so forgive me if it seems tedious, but this is how I see things. Let me add my apology to Adrian for the slight he felt because of some insensitive posts here. One of the marks of a good critic is TACT. Implying that he should not be part of a band (whichever it may be) simply because one dislikes the way he sings or plays is not only impolite, it is downright rude. One of the stipulations of this discussion group is that there be no flames, so before this runs any closer to that territory, let me just say that if we must criticize, let us do it responsibly, and be prepared to back up our arguments. Hey, I didn't particularly care for the idea at first ("What's this? AMERICANS in the best BRITISH band?"), I then listened to the MUSIC. I DID like it. 'Nuff said. As for Robert not wanting to associate with people sometimes, maybe he's feeling like shit that day and doesn't want to talk. Ever have a bad headache? On the double trio concept and who is playing what: While it may not be my favourite version of the band, and although I haven't heard all of their stuff yet (just the studio stuff actually), it can still move me at times. Who cares that it's difficult to distinguish who is playing what? It is what comes out of the speakers that counts (i.e. the MUSIC). I admit it isn't always as impressive as I thought it might, or could be, but, to quote Lol Coxhill from one of his albums: "Some of the pieces I really like, other pieces I quite like, and I don't hate any of it" That's all for now. Have fun boys and girls. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:06:51 -0800 (PST) From: michael damian jeter Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #322 Today, I begin work on a recipe from Paul Prudhomme: A Turducken: a deboned chicken stuffed with oyster stuffing, inside a deboned duck stuffed with a cornbread dressing inside an almost deboned turkey stuffed with a sausage dressing. it is my first time doing this one, so wish me luck:-) > I'd like to wish a very sincere Happy Holiday to all the members of this list, and to all the members of KC, Past and Present. It is your collective legacy which continues to push us all beyond where we are. A special thank you to Robert, Adrian, Tony, Trey, Bill and Pat. it is all the more amazing that, in spite of general nonsense, much of it on this list, you still give us as much as you do. Thank you all:-) Today I begin work on a recipe from Paul Prudhomme: a Turducken--a deboned chicken stuffed with an oyster dressing inside a deboned duck stuffed with a cornbread stuffing inside an almost deboned turkey stuffed with a sausage dressing. It's my firs time, so wish me luck:-) Department of English, Kingsborough Community College, Brooklyn, NY Purpleheart Chapman Stick, #1139 Whatever you do, a teacher works harder than you do -- George Clinton, Central Park, NY, July 4, 1996 ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #323 ********************************