Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #317 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 317 Monday, 18 November 1996 Today's Topics: King Crimson literature references Re: King's Insomnia Great Deciever MR. BUMPY plays "Lark'sTongues" Introductions From Jason Bell Ten Seconds And the winner is... KC & PROG ROCK Live in Japan Video '96 tour tapes How about an ET trading post? Artist Shop/Trey Gunn Chat part 2 a copy of sat aug 24th 1996... (un)availability of sylvian/fripp's "damage" various 1/2 Post-"Red" KC -- live! Late News WOOD for trade Radio 1Fm Soundscapes Adrian Belew (fwd) Beatles and Possible Productions Too much to dream last night Fripp supporting G3 trio (Vai/Johnson/Satriani) ??? ask for lyrics Latest Soundscapes ET Web Fripp In Manchester ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 21:50 +0100 From: 0303016732-0001 at t-online dot de (collatz) Subject: King Crimson literature references Hello, I found the thread started by Charity Creighton (?) about references of King Crimson and related bands to literature very interesting. Here are some contributions of mine regarding King Crimson: - 'The sheltering sky' refers to the novel of Paul Bowles, maybe better known is the Bertolucci movie - the line 'her room with a view' on 'Inner Garden II' from Thrak might refer to the novel 'A room with a view' from Edward Morgan Forster, there was also a movie with Jeremy Irons - 'Starless and Bible Black' is a line from Dylan Thomas, as somebody mentioned in an earlier ET, I cannot track it down more exactly - The whole album 'Beat' refers to the Beat Generation including Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsberg, and William S. Burroughs. In particular 'Neal and Jack and me' refers to Jack Kerouac and Neal Cassady, a friend of his who has been named 'Dean Moriarty' in his novel 'On the road'. The song mentions the French titles of several novels from Kerouac (en route = on the the road, les souterrains = the subterraneans, des visions du cody = visions of cody) 'The Howler' refers to the poem 'Howl' by Ginsberg. Also other references to music or art might be interesting. The song 'the nightwatch' is an excellent description of Rembrandt's painting. 'The devil's triangle' is taken from 'The Planets' of Gustav Holst, where the section is called 'Mars' (and so was the King Crimson piece called in the live CD from frame by frame). Carsten Collatz E-Mail: 0303016732-0001 at t-online dot de ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:19:10 -0500 From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: Re: King's Insomnia On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 Tefkros Symeonides wrote: >In ET #313 Gregory Hindsley wrote: > >> I was recently reading Stephen King's "Insomnia" when I was greatly >>suprised at what I read on page 92. > >(snip) > >Wait till you read the ending! (don't worry, I won't spoil it, I'll just >say that you'll be blown away by the references) > >BTW, isn't it a great book? Just the kind I like to read while listening to >THRaKaTTaK. I don't want ET to turn into a place to discuss Stephen King, but I found Insomnia quite unsatisfying. Many of his other works (The Stand, The Dead Zone) I've enjoyed, but not Insomnia. Sorry. --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:03:32 -0500 (EST) From: CWA Subject: Great Deciever This is a personal response to a post in ET #316 but I also thought it could be included in the digest as a whole. Its my list of favorites from the Great Deciever Box. It would be cool to see a discussion as to the merits, flaws and personal favorites/opinions in regards to this set on ET. Thanks. Hello. I have a copule of strong favorites off the great deciever box set. They include: Easy Money, from disc 1. Just a rocking version of this song. Fripps guitar solo in the middle section is, IMO, one of his best recorded. Fracture, from disc 4. Fracture is my all time favorite crimson song of any period, and this is my favorite version (Frpp's crescendo at the end is awesome) Daniel Dust Improv-Night Watch, from disc 3. a great improv into into this song. Golden Walnut Improv, from disc 4. This is just a top of the top run through of this box set. I have about 75% of all crimsons recorded material, and this is my collection highlight. hope this helped. Sincerely, Chris Anderson ps- thanks, toby, for a great newsletter! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:17:12 -0800 From: nomad at netrover dot com Subject: MR. BUMPY plays "Lark'sTongues" Hi E.Ters!!! During one of my recent visits to London, Ont., CANADA to see my fiancee, I noticed something completely obvious coming out of the TV speakers. My fiancee and I were watching MR. BUMPY!!! The episode had Mr. BUMPY playing feedback drenched riffs in front of his fans, only to have them deny his artistry. They were all yelling "Turn it off!!!". That's when I noticed what MR.BUMPY was playing. He was playing a couple of riffs(well...Fripp doesn't play riffs, but you all know what I mean) from "Lark's Tongues In Aspic Pt.1". I'M NOT KIDDING!!! MR. BUMPY played it about 2 or 3 times(at least). By the end of the episode, MR. BUMPY simply went back to eating socks. I wonder if FRIPP eats socks??? BYE4NOW------JULIAN "Ranting Man" BELANGER. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:08:26 -0500 From: Jason Bell <106417 dot 737 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Introductions From Jason Bell Well, I finally made it. Email, the Internet. This is my first posting on ET, I'm Jason Bell from York, England. I am a Chapman Stick player (surprise, surprise). It's nice to see that Robert is doing another Mark Radcliffe show on the 12th Nov. The last one was excellent. I'm not to sure what I can contribute, but let's see what happens in the coming days. All the best Jason Bell (106417 dot 737 at compuserve dot com) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:19:18 -0500 (EST) From: Justin Weinberg Subject: Ten Seconds Request for info: Is the track from Ten Seconds on the _Sometimes God Hides_ CD Sampler representative of the rest of the album? Or, is the rest of the album quite different? Do any of the tracks have vocals? Thanks in advance, Justin ------------------------------ Date: 11 Nov 96 16:04:26 EST From: Jeff Birkel <74017 dot 3700 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: And the winner is... In ET312 I posted the following riddle: >> Sometime in the vicinity of 1980, 81 and 82 I went to a concert at the old Cleveland Agora at which Adrian Belew was the front man for the opening bad, an d RF the lead guitarist for the headliner. Neither band was King Crimson. What were the name of both bands? << The answer is GaGa and LoG. Congratulations to Chris Van Allen for providing the first, and only, correct answer. I'd like to thank everyone who participated (both of you) in making this contest a huge success. And now it can be told... ------------------------- GaGa was something to see. Fronted by a maniacal whammy-bar junkie lead guitarist (Adrian) and an equally deranged sax player, they played fast, brazen music with an absurd sense of humor. These guys donned pea-green skull caps during a song detailing the tragic fate of innocent little peas on your dinner plate. If you are familiar with "Adidas in Heat" on Lone Rhino, that'll give you some idea of how they played. I think I remember them playing Fish-Heads. Adrian's guitar was fantastic. Unlike any other rock guitarist I've ever heard before or since, guitar special effects were the core of his playing rather tha n embellishments. It's a side of Adrian that's never quite come through in his K C recordings. (Until THRaKaTTaK?) Chatting with Mr. B. -------------------- After GaGa left the stage I was sitting on the dance floor with my friends waiting for LoG to come on. Who should sit down right next to me other than Mr . Belew himself! He was dressed in what seemed to be 50's style slacks and Hawaiian shirt. I timidly told him how much I liked his playing, but my shyness vanished when I saw the way he smiled in response. He seemed to be a very down-to-earth fellow who genuinely appreciated a compliment from someone in the audience. I asked him a few questions trying not to be too much of a pest, and what I he told me made me feel a little sympathy for him. He was not touring with LoG, in fact this Cleveland bar was the biggest gig his band had played, and they had no record companies interested in them. Amazing, I actually felt sorry for him. He seemed to be so small-time. And then in the upcoming months he played on the Talking Head's Remain In Light, toured with the heads, then joined KC, made Discipline, and toured with KC. Th e rest is history. Sometimes I Wonder ------------------ During GaGa's show RF came out onto the dance floor. No one was dancing and RF towered above the rows of cross-legged kids sitting in front of the stage. He strolled out slowly in his sports jacket and turtle neck and moved along the back edge of the dance floor, stopping about a third of the way across, standin g straight up with his hands clasped behind his back. He looked straight at Adrian and appeared to be almost deliberately "taking notice" of Mr. B. After a bit he went back. But I was left with the distinct impression that he had come out just to get a good look at Adrian. So I wonder. Was RF seeing Adrian for the first time that night? Did a chance double-booking at a rock'n'roll bar change the course of Adrian's career? Does anybody know the genesis of their relationship? Inquiring minds want to know! Next time: the LoG part of the show. What RF says, what he doesn't, and what h e shakes. -jb- P.S. For those not familiar with Remain In Light, it's worth a listen. In my opinion the best Talking Heads album, the best album of that year and maybe of the decade (1980's). When it first came out it had a huge impact on me. Like no other album since, until THRaKaTTaCK. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:06:42 -0500 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: KC & PROG ROCK Just a quick note to share some Crimso items I spooted recently. The monthly Record Collector magazine has been doing a feature on the Island record label and of course they eventually turned to things of a Frippular nature. In issue 205 under the collective title of Think Pink ! they round up 20 unforgettable moments in Pink label history. In at No.7 comes 'InThe Wake Of Poseidon including Libra's Theme: Grandiose! Overblown ! Pretentious ! All this and more! The sweeping Mellotron passages must be among the most beautiful noise Crimson ever made.' No.15 'Turnham Green - McDonald & Giles: Unashamedly Beatlesesque intro ushers in McDonald's restrained display of woodwind expertise. Drummer Michael Giles does so much more than bang boxes. Breezy.' Finally for Crimhead's direct interst comes No16 which is '21st Century Schizoid Man: Outrageous, gut churning beast of a track featuring jaw plummeting, virtuoso performances from all concerned. incandescent.' In issue 206, they mention KC and do a small feature on Court which they describe as being the greatest progressive rock LP ever recorded. Alongside a picture of the artwork they also reprint the three label variations. In issue 207 they also do a little feature on McDonald & Giles album which it summerises as as one of the most satisfying and under-rated pink era Island albums. Interestingly, it contains a snippet of an interview (sadly unsourced) with Ian McDonald in 1975 on the subject of why he left Crimson. 'Ha, that question! I was nuts! I didn' realise what a good thing we had going. But although I wrote most of the music I still felt I couldn't do all I wanted to do through the group. Anyway, it taught me never to quit a good thing' To this day I ponder on what might have been if the RED era Crimson with the recently re-joined Ian McDonald had carried on. So does he by the sound of it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 19:53:03 -0800 From: glen at mrpither dot demon dot co dot uk Organization: none Subject: Live in Japan Video I've just bought the 'live in japan video', the quality is very disappointing. The overall picture is out of focus. To me this seems as if vaselene has been smeared over the camera lenses !!!. What do other fans think ? Also ; Are there any plans for another live box set from the early 80's period King Crimson ? Simon & Glen Brough Sheffield Engalnd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:46:52 -0500 From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: '96 tour tapes Okay. It's cold out and the memories of the HORDE Festival with its bikini-clad nymphets, and kids young enough to be my childrren and the heat combining with the blazing performance of the double trio in broad daylight are a vague memory. But sometimes one is lucky enough to find a permanent reminder of the event. So far I've collected a Berkeley, a San Diego, a Philly and a HORDE date from Hartford, CT. What else is out there? From '95 it seemed that every date had a tape and some of fine quality but '96's are much rarer, which is a real puzzle in view of the open taping policy of the HORDE Festival. So, who's got 'em, from where and are they any good? Arnie ASchulberg at aol dot com ------------------------------ From: "Bailey, Jim" Subject: How about an ET trading post? Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 02:00:00 -0500 Hi gang, Haven't posted for some time now, but an idea recently struck me (OW!), and I thought it might be of interest to some. What prompted the idea was a trade I recently completed with another ETer, J. Eric Williamson (howdy!), of material we each had created. This got me thinking (quite a monumental feat!) that there must be (and I know there are because some have admitted it) others with things they have created which your fellow ETers might like. So, the proposal is this: Would there be enough interest among us to set up a trading post of sorts for those who would like to share their stuff? Terms could be negotiated by the individual parties at the time of trade, depending on what each has, and what they are willing to accept in exchange. This would be for original works by ETers, NOT bootlegs. Perhaps a section could be set aside (Toby?, Dan?) where those with something to trade could post their names, addresses - postal as well as e-mail - and what they have available. Arrangements could then be made between interested parties in private. I suppose there is nothing to prevent boots from being traded; for all I know it could be going on now, but considering Robert's views on the subject, I don't think it would be very cool to do it here. How about it? Would it fly? Hugs to all. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:59:03 -0500 From: Otherroad at aol dot com Subject: Artist Shop/Trey Gunn Chat part 2 Hi, folks. Here's part 2 of The Artist Shop/Trey Gunn live IRC chat in which Trey discusses upcoming plans for King Crimson! ********************************** Ok... question from DJ1 and ldh: What are King Crimson's upcoming plans (CDs, tours, etc) ? KC, then.... Well we are writing new material. Tony has just been out to visit me and we have been working on some ideas. You want radical? We'll give you radical. How about the Stick and Warr tuned in quarter tones. Huh??? Is that radical enough. That could be quite amazing! :-) But seriously, RF wants to go even more radical. I'm meeting with Robert and Adrian in December to do more writing. We will probably do some sort of small club tour next year summer/fall(???) in order to play the new material, in before we record it. Radical brings THRaKaTTaK to mind. Could you comment on the creation of that? THRaKaTTaK is all live group improvs from about 30 nights all edited together. Funny enough, as soon as the record was completed, the improv's went to a whole new and more powerful level. So we may have to do THRaKATTaK 2 at some point. Matthew would like to inquire about 'The Third Star,' and your love affair with 7/8 on it, as well as impressions of working with David Sylvian. Seven is cool. Five is cool, too, but seven is long enough to be groovy without calling too much attention to itself. Nine is cool, too, (check out 'Take This Wish" on my first cd 'One Thousand Years' for a cool nine.) Now fifteen............. On Sylvian.........with Sylvian ("God's Monkey" starts in 7 as well, thanks to yours truly I might add) David is fantastic. I have never heard his voice sound anything but consistantly amazing for over 50 shows. He is one of the few musician's that I have worked with who can play directly from the 'heart'. Question from William: Is there anything you've learned from being in King Crimson that you don't think you could have learned otherwise? I'm thinking.......... Yes, I know......... That everyone's vision in a group makes up the whole vision EVEN when they are contradictory. All the visions MUST co-exist to make up the whole. Let's do this poster deally....... Cool. Trey is going to be giving away a full sized poster of the gorgeous cover art to The Third Star. This poster is autographed by Trey and the cover artist. If I understand correctly, this poster is not on the market which makes it quite a collector's item. No, there are only 3 of them. I sent one to Japan, one is for this and one I'm keeping. We will make some more, but they will be different from this one..... Trey will give us a trivia question (and I know he's been working on some tougies) after which Roger will unmodify the room for a short period of time for everyone to submit their answers. And, of course, the first correct one gets it. Roger, I hate to say it, but you and I are ineligible :( So the question....we're going to start really, really, really hard, and work our way to a more marginally manageable question. So when do I send it? Are you ready, Roger? Go ahead, Trey. Shoot. Again, don't send your answer to Roger. He'll briefly unmoderate the room for this. Ha.....Who was the drummer in Punishment Farm, one of my earlier bands in Eugene, Oregon??????????????? No one will get this............... Ringo starr uh... bob muller? Bill Bruford Keith Moon miles davis Mickey Dolenz Carl Palmer Gene Krupa Phiulty Animal Stockard Channing Jerry Morotta was'nt that a george orwell book? This is a good one! I haven't the faintest idea and from these answers, neither do they. Damn...my xcousin just moved to Eugene. Dennis Wilson Buddy Miles haha I think you've stumped them Trey. Vinnie Colaiuta! I think so too... This is great. Perhaps you should give in now. Charlie Watts dont tell us,, c'mon, james! Nikki Six\ King Crimson His name is: Chuck Clearwater. what ?? nah thats not it So let's go easy now. OK, next question... What record was "Tight Muscle Party at Love Beach" on???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? live ELP's love beach? lea of crafty guitarists one The League of Crafty Guitarists Play Live! Brian Wilson does Dallas? The League of Crafty Guitarists Live I think Bill gets it.... the Baywatch soundtrack! Bill Bruford's Razz ma Tazz I think I may have added an extraneous word. :D So, Trey, who is the first correct answer? You accept Bill's? I think it's probably Bill. The group was Robert Fripp and the League of Crafty Guitarists. The record was "live". You're our winner, Bill. Congratulations! woopee! Now, Bill, who wrote the piece?? Um, The League of Crafty Guitarists? Nope, Andrew Essex. Also imortalized as the first house manger at Red Lion House in Dorset. Hence the term "Andrew of the Day" was born. Bill, send Roger your address in a private message and we'll see that you get the poster. So I think I must be going, now........ any last thingssssss? I think we have one from Roger himself. Well, I'll ask a quickie of my own. Can "Raw Power" or any older stuff of yours be found anywhere? Not presently. I did back all my older stuff, which was on old reel-to-reel tape, onto DAT's about 2 years ago so that in the future, if neccessary, I could put some of it out. Perhaps a selection of past stuff could make a good Discipline release. Perhaps. Well, I want to thank Trey for being with us tonight. And I certainly want to thank all of you for coming. I hope we got to most of your questions. And thank you all...............chchchchchcheeeeeeers, and adios amigos..............tg I'll be sending the log of this along to ET after we clean it all up so look for it there. Also be sure to stop by The Artist Shop to check out Trey's new album as well as the rest of the Discipline catalog. Special thanks to Roger without whom this evening's event would not have been possible. Take a bow Roger. *bow* :-) And now, if you'll be so kind, Roger, go ahead and unmoderate the room so everyone can chat amongst themselves. sure :) Have fun folks! ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:20:34 -0500 (EST) From: Pietro Sabatino Subject: a copy of sat aug 24th 1996... like the subject says, i'm looking for a high quality copy of the crimso show at the paramount theater at asbury park new jersey. the date was august 24th of this year, it was a saturday as i recall. i only have one crimson bootleg 11/21/95 at longacre theater in new york city. i could also trade for blanks but i dont really like to do that. please reply to my email address. thanks. -ps ------------------------------ From: "Jay" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 22:47:50 -0500 Subject: (un)availability of sylvian/fripp's "damage" a few issues back, someone wrote about not being able to find "damage". i found it at ranjit's site: http://www.webpage.com/~progtron and wrote a note about how surprisingly difficult is was to find. he responded thus: > From: ranjit at netcom dot com (Ranjit Padmanabhan) > To: jkress at patriot dot net > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:14:28 -0800 (PST) > jkress at patriot dot net writes: > > > > hello ranjit... got the sylvian/fripp from you fine... had > > ordered for a friend. are you aware it's *quickly* > > disappearing? > > It has disappeared. I just happened across some copies left > over in my supplier's warehouse, and I'm down to my last 3-4. ____________________________________________ visit me!: http://patriot.net/~jkress finger jkress at patriot dot net for pgp key ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 07:25:25 +0100 (MET) From: mlozei at spin dot it (Maurizio Lozei) Subject: various Hello, there are some news about the crimson compilation called "Epitaph" ? And for the second volume of "Earthbound" and a compilation called "The rime of the ancient mellotron ? For all the crimheads of ET, a little notice. In 1985 an italian group, the "Violet Eves" recorded a version of "I talk to the wind". The track is contained in the lp. "Incidental glance", 1985, D.E.A. records-DE-MP 33004 A. A request:- please, is anyone on line that can e.mail me the complete lyrics of the suite "Tarkus" of Emerson, Lake and Palmer ? Thank you and excuse me for my little english. Maurizio Lozei - Trieste - mlozei at spin dot it ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 05:39:43 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Cervero Subject: 1/2 Post-"Red" KC -- live! If anyone is interested in catching a live concert of one-half of the post-"Red" KC (that never materialized, after Fripp declared in late-74 that KC "ceases to exist") and is willing to fly to Japan, John Wetton and Ian MacDonald will be on stage together, supporting Steve Hackett on the "Genesis Revisited" tour in Tokyo (Dec.16-17, Shinjuku Kinsei), Osaka (Dec. 19) and Nagoya (Dec. 20). The word is Wetton and MacDonald will also play some of their own material, in addition to backing up Hackett. ------------------------------ From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:26:14 +0000 Subject: Late News This may well have been covered before, but it's new to me so here goes: After lending Thrak to a friend, he is convinced that SSEDD (intro and 'chaos' section) was used for a TV advert here in the UK last year. It was for deodorant body spray or similar, very 'avant garde' filming so an appropriate choice of music I suppose. I would have remembered if I'd seen it, did anyone else or is my friend mistaken? Btw, we have another convert, he's going to buy his own copy now. Methinks I'll lend him B'boom next for exposure to assorted earlier works. Tyres and deodorant, whatever next? Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:56:45 +0100 (MET) From: Lars Carlestam Subject: WOOD for trade Anybody interested in WOOD:s "Against the Grain" CD? Featuring a nice cover of "Red". Trade with anything interesting. Cheers, Lasse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:46:35 +0000 From: "David J. McAllister" Subject: Radio 1Fm Soundscapes Dear ETers This is my first mailing, although I've been a subscriber for the last few months, so I'll start of by saying "Hello!". For anyone who's interested, I come from a small town near Glasgow - I wonder if there's any other ETs from Scotland (probably a stupid question). I was lucky enough to have been staying in London when KC played at Shepherd's Bush last summer, and managed to catch the Monday show when R.F. treated the crowd to a wonderful Soundscape in place of the Californian Guitar Trio which had to pull out of the support slot. Previously, I had heard only the "Blessing of Tears" CD which, in my opinion, contains some more mournful and reflective pieces (which stands to reason, judging by the cover notes). The music I saw and heard in London was far more lively and animated (and it was fun seeing RF dancing on his vast array of pedals). It was with eager anticipation that I tuned into the UK R1 Mark Radcliff show last night to hear some more of the same, and to hear RF actually speak - indeed he even seemed lighthearted! And the music was wonderful - I especially loved the second piece with the guitar triggering sampled vocal "ooh"s (v. tranquil) gradually metamorphisising into sonic "whooshes". Truly beautiful, incredibly profound. One thing bothers me, though. I noticed a marked disappointment amongst the London audience when RF proceeded to play his Soundscape. While several listeners, if not the majority, seemed rapt and attentive, there was a noticable background murmur - people were talking over RF's music, ignoring it as if they found it incredibly boring. Which leads me to my point. How do ETers regard the Soundscapes? Granted, the music seems a million miles away musically from KC, especially songs like 21CSM, but it shares the same sense of musical adventure and, if anything, can be more involving. Do others agree? How would ETers compare the other Soundscape albums to "A Blessing of Tears"? I hope that this ground hasn't been covered a thousand times before. Take care, David McAllister ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:27:30 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: Adrian Belew (fwd) Organization: Elephant Talk Toby, I received this message and think it might be worth inclusion in the next list. Belew's initial answer to the second question sort of echoes my sentiment to a 'T'! > Message-ID: <328A9EA2 dot 6EE4 at electricvillage dot com> > Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 20:22:58 -0800 > From: cooper at electricvillage dot com (Scott Cooper) > Organization: Electric Village > > Mike, I'm not really interested in subscribing to your digest per se. > But I wanted to inform you and all Crimson buffs on an interview I did > with Adrian Belew, that's currently running in RockVillage, the > syndicated magazine for radio station web sites. Our URL is > http://www.electricvillage.com then you must choose RockVillage and then > choose any station, then choose limelight. Or you can go directly to the > site of any of our 16 affiliates. Here's two questions that didn't make > the final edit. > > Q. Do you feel like you have any contemporaries around these days who > are doing something similar to you? > A. "That's hard to say. A lot of the people that I work with I feel an > affinity for. I've worked with Frank Zappa, David Bowie, Robert Fripp, > Bill Bruford, the whole King Crimson group of people. I'm good friends > with Andy Partridge, so many others like that. Laurie Anderson, Paul > Simon, I'm not putting myself in their category because some of those > people are wildly more successful than I am but I think there's an > affinity there. Even Trent Reznor, he sells millions of records and I > don't, but I think there's something that we share. I think that's what > music is about. A lot of people have that said that music is a separate > language. I'm not so sure about that I think it's really an emotional > extension of how you view things in life and I think that's why I get > along with a lot of different people and can play with a lot of > different people because I like a lot of different things. I'm > open-minded and I can flex music music to fit different needs. What I > tried to do on Op Zop Too Wah is really present and whole palette, like > a feast of all kinds of different things. Someone may not like track 4 > but they may like track 20, and I really wanted to put it together in a > way that keeps the listener off-guard, a little surprised. You're not > certain what's gonna happen next and everything constantly changes. No > sooner than you may start liking a song it changes to something else > totally different. I really like that idea. See I have this theory that > people have a shorter and shorter attention span. It's the way we're > brought up. If you look at children today they watch Sesame Street and > every 15 seconds it changes to a whole different thing. So I wanted to > do that with music, I wanted the music to always be surprising and new. > I had some songs which are obviously, like "What Do You Know," which is > interrupted just about the time you think it's going to go the chorus. > Instead it goes to a whole new song. I like that idea." > > Q. Before you joined King Crimson, what did you think of their music? > A. "I was a big fan of it but oddly enough I thought it was the world's > best kept secret. I didn't think anybody else in the world liked King > Crimson, nobody I knew had ever heard of them. I grew up in Cincinnati > and pretty much nobody cared for King Crimson or knew who they were when > I mentioned them. So I always thought it was kind of for my own private > entertainment. Here's this incredibly good band from England and I > wondered 'what are they like and what are their lives like and what to > they think and why do they play this crazy music.' I really liked it a > lot and I didn't have the first idea that I'd ever end up being in the > band. At that point it would have impressed me but at this point it's > really something I take very seriously. I'm in the band, I'm part of it, > I really want to make great contributions to that music." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 21:29:17 +0000 From: Don Cooper Subject: Beatles and Possible Productions Hi E.T.ers, This is my first post in about a year of reading ET. Toby, what a great job you and the other folks do. Several issues have included posts about the similarity between "Thrak" and some Beatles music. I heard this similarity immediately. Parts of "Inner Garden",especially, remind me very much of "Abbey Road". Also, "Dinosaur" and "Walking On Air". Part of this, of course, is due to Adrian's love of the Beatles. But in a strange way I feel that King Crimson carries a spirit forward from 1969, the last year of the Beatles' existence to 1975, when John Lennon dropped out of the public eye. (Very much like Fripp did later, "to allow the future to present itself" I believe were his words.) Next, 1981 - Where I really first was exposed to KC. I read several articles, including the excellent series in "Musician". The band fascinated me, partly because of the standard reasons (Fripp and Bruford) but also because of the fact that Tony Levin had played with John and Yoko on "Double Fantasy". Silly to say, but would TL have been available for KC if John Lennon had toured in 1981, which apparently was in the works? The 1981 KC helped me mourn the death of Lennon that year. A lot of other people were quite shook up at that time, and this new music said to me: "New Music is still going to come out; It's not over." The fourth member at that time, was AB, the ultimate Beatle fan. (Listen again, or the first time, to "Here" Adrian's 1994 pop masterpiece.) Next, 1994 - present and the aforementioned "Thrak", etc. I mean all this as the ultimate compliment, because as Kurt Cobain once said, in the few years the Beatles were in existence, they changed like no other band ever has. (Or words to that effect. BTW, Kurt was a big fan of "Red".) Many of you know Mark Perry of Possible Productions. I just want to give him a pat on the back too, because he works hard spreading the word across North America about some great music, namely KC and related bands, which is a lot of stuff! Don't forget about him. If your local store carries this music, consider yourself fortunate, but if they don't, contact Mark. One CD he's now carrying is "The Unherd" featuring Tony Levin and Orleans' Larry Hoppen. The sale of this disc raises money for "Sunshine For HIV Kids" an organization that helps kids in a tough spot. Not KC - like, but some good pop. Hope to see you all at a King Crimson show. We sure have fun, don't we? Don Don Cooper's Orleans Page (under construction) http://www.oneonta.edu/~cooperdt/ORLEANS ------------------------------ Subject: Too much to dream last night From: chipnkel at juno dot com (Chip Hughes) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:06:22 EST I've just had the strangest dream. My wife, daughter and I went about two hours early to a concert at Barton Hall in Ithaca, NY. I wasn't sure who the band was that were going to be listening to when we arrived. There was no one else in the hall except for a few people who I assumed to be students and a few roadies for the band with typical tags and attire. Instead of setting up equipment on the stage the musicians instruments were lined up three by three on the floor in the center of the hall. There was also another drum set at the back of the hall. As the soundcheck was coming to a long drawn out end, the band members came out to look over the setup and bend the strings a little. This is when I realized that we were at a Grateful Dead concert and the boys were going over "Playing in the Band". I was psyched! I walked up to the front of the hall and took some pictures of the band but my camera kept jamming and I only got two or three good pictures and then I ran out of film. Jerry was in great form, he looked very healthy and didn't have an awful lot of gray in his hair. It seemed to me that this was an early eighties version of the band that I was watching and listening to. After the song they began going over the set list for the night. I stayed within earshot because I was very interested to hear how they would choose the songs to set up this evenings cosmic voyage. I remember Phil arguing that they were going to the Space section of the set way to early and it would be like hitting the crowd over the head with it. He argued that the audience wouldn't be "prepared" for it yet. They should just let the set evolve a little more organically before going into these outer spaces. Satisfied with what I was hearing, I made my way back to my seat which we had chosen at the back of the hall. The crowd was filtering in but it didn't look like any Dead crowd that I had seen before. Everyone was sitting in folding chairs arranged neatly column-row throughout the hall. As I arrived at my seat in the last row, Kelly and I discussed the possibility and effect of second hand pot smoke on our very young daughter. We were becoming concerned about it and hoped it wouldn't have any adverse or ill effects on her. I was still determined not to miss this concert. As one of the roadies made his way past our row, Kelly asked him if they could play some Talking Heads instead of what was being piped in over the speakers now. Well, he reacted as if she had just asked him to saw off one of his legs. Then explained that it was impossible to play any Talking Heads songs before the show. He then went along his way muttering something to himself. I stood up and in my best "Valley" dialect mockingly started saying how "cosmically incorrect" it would be to deviate from the standard pre-show tape. I then morphed into a sort of Pythonesque Crunchy-Larks-in-Aspic, "It's not like this is a bloody jukebox." "You have to understand that we are in a different town every night and that pre-show tape is the only connection to this world." "Talking Heads would just upset the karmic balance." Then I realized that the whole audience was watching listening and laughing at me. I was shaken and began groping for words and was gleefully helped by others as I stumbled along my ripping monologue. A young woman in a suit, holding a flashlight, then approached me and asked me to come with her. Not sure what to expect, I told Kelly that I would be right back. I was then led to a backstage door where I was met by a man in a gray t-shirt and vest with scruffy hair and a stubbly beard. With a subdued, "Hello. Follow me.," the man turned and opened the stage door. I suddenly became red in the face because I realized that this was Robert Fripp. I then realized that this was actually a King Crimson concert and that the Grateful Dead was the opening act! (what a dream) I then followed through the door, lamenting the fact that I wasn't wearing my Elephant Talk Website t-shirt. I saw Robert, ahead of me, ascending the stairs. I followed, climbing seven steps and turning left. I climbed seven more steps and turned left. I had visions of meeting with the rest of the band. Again, climbing seven steps and turning left. I tried to think of relevant, stimulating questions to ask each Crim. Climbed seven steps, turned left. I thought that I should run back and get Kel and our daughter, to share this great experience with them. I could only hear Roberts footfalls now, somewhere up and ahead of me. I increased my pace taking two steps at a time. Now there were eleven steps, turn left. The stairway narrowed. The stairwell led to a spiral staircase that I had to climb on the outside of partially; because it was blocked by plumbing running through the passageway down the staircase. Confusion, could very well have been my epitaph. As I crossed that cracked and broken path. I could no longer hear Roberts footsteps. Instead I was in an industrial, starless, Lynch/Eraserhead pounding-pipes, bible-black hell of frantic sweat. The staircase was impassable now. My thoughts turned to my family and I wondered if we would ever be three of a perfect pair again. I then began to realize that this was a dream and that reality and the night were pouring back into my consciousness. I struggled to get back in and dream a dream with a happy ending. I wanted badly to meet the rest of the band; but wasn't sure where Robert was leading me. It seems that sometimes Fripp hides. As I realized that it is impossible to control my destiny, even in dreams, I awoke. Kel was by my side awake. She told me that she couldn't sleep. I asked her if she had been dreaming and she replied that she dreamt of her brothers. As I write this, I heard our daughter stir and cry from time to time. I don't think that I can sit back and laugh about this dream. What does it mean? Where was Robert leading me? Why does he hide? Why does all of this beelzebub-ble up from my unconsciousness? I think that I have told you much more about myself than I would care to reveal, by sharing this dream. But isn't that what most all of us do that write to this forum? I know that most of you will dismiss this as the ramblings of someone who had one too many pizza crusts dipped in garlic butter or one too many pepperoencinis before bedtime. It's true, I did. But still, this really happened to me. It's true that I have probably read too many consecutive issues of Elephant Talk from top to bottom, but I Like It! It's true, I did just receive an e-mail from Mark Perry telling me that my VHS copy of KC Live in Japan '95 is being shipped this week. Thank you! It's true, I did just receive the December issue of Life magazine with a cover story featuring figurines of the virgin Mary. It's Christmas! Yes, I have listened to track 22 of the DGM sampler elevenses times in a row. When will "Live in '69" get here? I will now make the obligatory request not to respond to ET, but to me personally, if at all. However, if anyone else has had a similar sleepless experience, maybe they could post it to ET. I should now make the obligatory apology for excessive (ab)use of the bandwidth, but I will not. There has been precious little in this forum as of late and the posts are less interesting. I would like to say that I detest creative writing contests. I hope that this doesn't fuel that kind of a thread and would like to apologize now if it does. I welcome any explanations or exaggerations as to what I experienced tonight. When responding, please remember, facts are simple and facts are straight. Facts are lazy and facts are late. Facts don't come with points of view. Facts just twist the truth around. Facts are nothing in the face of things. I don't want to know the facts. That's all I read here lately. I'm looking for truth. I don't want to hear about grammar, bootlegs, syntax or missspellings. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 21:03:04 +0000 From: grc at cybersurf dot co dot uk (Graham Crawford) Subject: Fripp supporting G3 trio (Vai/Johnson/Satriani) ??? Thought you folks might be interested in the following exchange from the John McLaughlin mailing list (one-word at ml dot ee) - have any ET'ers seen Fripp supporting the G3 trio - Vai, Johnson, Satriani ??? *------------------------------------------------------------------------ I just got back from the G3 tour (Vai/Johnson/Satriani) in Washington DC. ........(snip) Well that concert review is for another list but if you get the chance check it out you won't be sorry. Anyway after all the conversation about Fripp on the list here lately as an odd coincidence Fripp ends up opening for them. Contrary to all the talk neither he nor his music was too "intellectually elevated." In fact he played this little hoedown number ("Chicken" something was the title) that was quite endearing... He seemed very amiable and a pretty good entertainer to boot. *---------------------------------------------------------------------- The reply - Subject: Robert Fripp - Not too shabby -Reply Adrian Legg is opening for them here in Portland. I wonder if you saw Legg and thought it was Fripp? - S. *-------------------------------------------------------------------- The reply (2) - Subject: Re: Robert Fripp - Not too shabby -Reply Nope definately Fripp... I heard they're having all kinds of different folks opening up at each show (Kenny Wayne Shepard, Chris Duarte, Fripp and now Legg)! Since you will see the show what is the second song that G3 plays? It comes right after "Down, Down, Down" and I completely forgot what it was maybe you can help? Please mail me when you find out. I bootleged part of the show it's not all together yet but I'll let you know when you mail me about it... Regards, Graham ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 14:02:52 +0100 From: Tortoioli Cristiano Organization: TRG Subject: ask for lyrics Hi, I'm Cristiano from Italy. Is anyone so kind to let me know the lyrics for "Elephant talk"? I searched for them in the ET, but I haven't found them...thank you (forgive my ugly english!) Cristiano Tortoioli (phototdr at mbox dot vol dot it) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:42:20 -0500 From: ALEdwa at aol dot com Subject: Latest Soundscapes Hi Heard Robert Fripp on the radio, excellent! Rushed out and brought 'That which Passes' the next day, it's really good, very recommended. I had previously found 'Radiophonics' hard going and 'Blessing of Tears' brilliant. TWP seems to be a bridge between the two putting both into perspective. I don't know if anyone has posted this yet but I saw 'Still' by Pete Sinfield in HMV's Oxford Street store, must be on re-issue. Lorne Edwards ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:47:42 -0500 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: ET Web Howdy All, ET traffic being a little slow of late (what no gigs!) I thought I'd mention a couple of things. 1) I hope people are making regular visits to ET Web. We get about 6000 hits a month which is pretty good. We continue to get more interviews submitted, including one from Modern Drummer a year ago with BB and PM that you should definitely read if you missed it back then. Thanks to all those submitting reviews of KC releases. There are still lots of gaps to fill so keep them coming. Non-US ETers should make sure they visit the DGM pages for the newest releases. And new stuff is always being added! 2) I know we have a lot of artistic people out there, and I'd like to tap that for a new ET Web background that we could use to replace the current light grey Discipline logo background. Perhaps a variation on the theme? I'm not terribly fond of grey. Surely we can do better. Maybe we can have randomly displaying backgrounds (using JavaScript). Something like I've done for the new Trey Gunn release at the DGM pages. Send me your suggestions and ideas. 3) Finally, I was wondering if anyone else would like to "host" the latest ET digest, for retrieval on the Web. All you'd have to do is pop it onto your Web server as soon as you've received it, or grabbed it, and we'd add a pointer to your page. Look at it as a little cheap advertising of your site. Let me or Toby know if you're interested. That's it for now. Cheers, Dan ET Web -- Daniel A. Kirkdorffer Email: DanKirkd at aol dot com The Gallimaufry: http://members.aol.com/dankirkd/ Elephant Talk: http://members.aol.com/etmirror/ Elephant Talk: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ little a: http://members.aol.com/sayaaahh/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 15:40:04 -0500 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Fripp In Manchester Seeing your heroes in close quarters can always be a potentially worrying experience. Will they live up to your expectations, will they be witty and lively or dull and morose. In more recent years Fripp's relationship with audiences in general and fans in particular has been a mixed affair. The lack of stage lighting on him at gigs with David Sylvian and Crimson seemed to indicate that he wished to abdicate from the throne which fandom and some quarters of the press have put him onto. Indeed his playing in recent years has tended to be about the creation of complex textures and colours rather than any grandstanding or overt soloing. Given that the aura of polite but firm distance he has been built up over the last few years, I wondered how Robert Fripp would cope in the glare of shop lights and the close proximity of both the casual record buying public who happened to stumble across him and the fervent fan on a musical pilgrimage such as myself. Newcastle to Manchester required me to take a day off work and catch a train at 7.00 am and travel a couple of hundred miles. A touch obsessive ? Perhaps. However, the thought of being able to stand in front of the Frippmeister as he played and created was too tempting to resist. Was it worth it ? Of course it was. I arrived in good time and noted my excitement arose when Hugh O'Donnell, DGM's label manager and engineer David Singleton appeared with various items of sound equipment. Within an hour, the two men began the task of transforming a mountain of cables, amplifiers and foot pedals into something which would enable Robert Fripp to make a lot of noise with one guitar. With 15 minutes or so to go, Fripp turned up carrying three cups of coffee and waited for Hugh and David to complete the preparations. Watching the two of them putting the technological jigsaw together certainly put the Fripp notion of the small mobile unit into context. He began by engaging the audience of about 30 or so with a bit of direct eye contact and then set about coaxing some rare and beautiful sounds from his guitar and the banks of digital technology. The piece seemed to consist of three sections, one of which was extremely reminiscent of the opening 'sonar' notes on Echoes by Pink Floyd. About twenty minutes later, he finished playing and following the polite and slightly self conscious applause, we all formed an orderly queue as Fripp arranged himself behind a counter to sign our various goodies. This part of the proceedings completed, he then started another shorter piece. This was marred by the failure of one of his devices. However, this did allow him to tell a string of drummer jokes while Hugh and David attempted to get things back on line. It was quite extraordinary watching Fripp at work and without being perverse, I actually found his presence a bit of distraction. By this I mean that I found myself watching him manipulating the sound rather than listening to the music directly. At times it was like watching a painter at work rather than looking at the finished work. I suspect that this was as much part of the experience and performance as the music itself. Standing in a shop full of people going about their business was also not particularly conducive to detailed listening either. However, seeing him create this music in real time has given me an insight into this aspect of Fripp's work which I'm not certain I would have had without this experience. The icing on the cake for me and the half dozen souls who stayed behind was that we were able to talk with Fripp and David Singleton for about 20 minutes as they packed up. Subjects covered included Fripp alleged contribution to The Future Sound Of London's live set on Radio One, thoughts on the merits of the League Of Gentlemen official bootleg, the fact that David Singleton has never yet heard any of the Exposure album, Fripp's continued dislike of EG management and his musings on his and Crimson's lack of popularity in the UK. He also revealed that Crimson might be doing a few small club dates in 1998 before there next real tour in 1999 ! I asked Fripp whether he would consider releasing any Crimson outakes in the style of The Beatles anthology series. He replied that there were no such out takes in existence and therefore not. Was this due to economics or musical prowess ? This might explain Fripp's decision to leave in the much cited 'mistakes' on Islands. I wanted to ask a dozen other such questions but I got the feeling that Fripp found much of the process of talking to fans on this level either tiresome in its repetition, difficult or both of the above. Throughout the conversation however, Fripp was both courteous, polite and patient but one couldn't help notice he also seemed awkward and slightly ill at ease. Then it was all over as Fripp, Singleton and O' Donnell and ET's very own Toby Howard went off for a sandwich. It was really a superb day. I had a pint with Alan who had travelled from Liverpool, met Toby Howard and of course, savoured every minute of Fripp's appearance at Virgin on the long journey back home. Phew ! ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #317 ********************************