Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #312 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 312 Saturday, 12 October 1996 Today's Topics: Toothscapes Thrakattack permeates all Re : Belew / Sakamoto / Scott Giles - Sunset Wading Toyah - This Is Your Life this is your life,Toyah SALE Fripp on BBC Soundscapes Technology Robert Fripp appearance on UK TV show Op Zop Too Wah Re: A Tony Levin Story Solaris Guitar Trio in Baltimore 10/12/96 Hammill, Belew, Gunn and more Maximum Mincer (et311) Members of the Chasing the Dragon Crimso Encounter Michael Nyman, This is your life The Bears, Psychodots, etc. New John Wetton Page "Indiscipline" Wind chords Videos and Box Sets The Mincer's Law Of Maximum Distress Mrs. Fripp, this is your life Women/ET Mincer & Maximum Distress Re: Greg Lake + Islands availability Ligeti was Hungarian, not Romanian ! GuitarCraft Literature Re: The Mincer's Law Of Maximum Distress Live In Japan - 1995 AVAILA OZTW Gyorgy Ligeti Re: King Crimson in "Wired"? Hubris, fantasy and a riddle. Robert Fripp Re: Elephant Talk Digest #311 Tellurian Online ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Toby Howard Subject: Toothscapes My dentist has a new gadget, to help "nervous patients" like me. It's a video headset with stereo sound, which the patient wears, watching and listening to a favourite video while having treatment. I had a filling done yesterday to the strains of the new King Crimson Live in Japan video. It worked like a dream. The soundscapes relaxed me, the complexity of the music engaged me. Just as I was having the tooth drilled, Adrian sang "somebody is digging my bones"! It is the first time, and will probably be the only time, that I have ever laughed in the dentist's chair. Toby ------------------------------ From: Matthew Nolan Date: Fri, 4 Oct 96 14:07:40 BST Subject: Thrakattack permeates all The other week, I was listening to THRaCKaTTaCK late at night, not too loud, just led on my bed. And (sin of all sins!) I drifted off to sleep (Look, I was verrrry tired). But, when it got to 3/4 of the way through track 6 (or maybe it was 7 - it was all rather bleary - there's a sudden loud section) it actually woke me up. So what's strange about that I hear you all cry. Well, listening to music late at night often, I quite frequently doze off with it still playing, but nothing else has EVER woken me up before. But this wasn't just waking up - no, I was scared! Adrenalin pumping, heart going ten to the dozen - quite unique. It was not just the amplitude dynamics that did it either. Anyway, just thought I'd tell you all, maybe someone with more understanding of the human subconcious can explain this... ...I must try the THRaCKaTTaCK car stereo test sometime... Matt "Egghead" Nolan (frying tonight!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 96 18:53:19 GMT From: alex at membrane dot univ-rouen dot fr (Stephane Alexandre) Subject: Re : Belew / Sakamoto / Scott Hello elephant talkers, In ET 311, Richard Gill ask about a Belew / Sakamoto / Scott album from 1981/2. I beleive, he is speaking of "Left Handed Dream" a Ruichi Sakamoto album from 1981. This album was produced by Robin Scott, R. Sakamoto is on keyboards, vocals and percussion. The main guest is Adrian Belew on guitars, angry animals, and drums. Several japanese musicians as the rhythm section from Yellow Magic Orchestra are also playing on some pieces. Actually only one song is a true collaboration between Sakamoto, Belew and Scott. The few apparition of Adrian on guitar on the background of the other songs are really good and contribute perfectly to the musical mood. Their was also an EP issued at the same time with 4 songs from this album revisited by Robin Scott and Nick Platas with new english lyrics (more poppy than the original versions but quite interesting). This album has been reissued on CD and the EP on the Ruichi Sakamoto CD "Field works" including two others EP issued from Sakamoto collaboration with other musicians as Thomas Dolby. Moreover,I am quite sure that I saw a CD version of this album including the EP. happy thraking, Stephane. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 96 19:15:01 GMT From: alex at membrane dot univ-rouen dot fr (Stephane Alexandre) Subject: Giles - Sunset Wading ET'ers, In ET 308, I wrote about Mike Giles playing with John G. Perry on Anthony Phillips' albums and I forgot about Perry's "Sunset Wading" recorded in 1976. On this album the main musicians were Perry on bass, Giles on drums and percussions, Rupert Hine on keyboards and production, Geoffrey Richardson on violin, guitars,... Other guest musicians were Simon Jeffes on piano and two italian musicians from a band called Nova, Carrado Rusticci on guitar and Elio Anna on sax and flute. There was a European tour at the end of 76, beginning of 77 promoting this record. Unfortunetly, Giles was replaced on stage by Trevor Morais on drums and Morris Pert on percussions. An info from this period said that Ian Mc Donald and Mike Giles should join for some gigs. However, I beleive it was only a rumour and this info is not relevant since Mc Donald was already involved in the creation of Foreigner. Morever, I do not see why Giles could play only on some gigs and not on the whole tour since he was not involved in anything. In addition, in 1981, Mike Giles was in studio with Greg Lake for a Lake' solo album. Apologizes, if I bother you "Children of Tomorrow" with those old infos. Bye, Stephane ************************************************************** Stephane ALEXANDRE, "POLYMERES, BIOPOLYMERES, MEMBRANES"; URA 500 CNRS; Universite de Rouen; UFR des Sciences 76130 MONT-SAINT-AIGNAN Cedex (FRANCE) tel : (33) 35 14 66 96 fax : (33) 35 14 67 04 e-mail : Stephane dot Alexandre at univ-rouen dot fr ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 20:45:14 +0100 From: Barrie Sillars Subject: Toyah - This Is Your Life Robert Fripp on Prime Time British TV. Yes, it is true. Friday, 8.00pm on BBC1, This Is Your Life. The subject was Fripp's wife Toyah. After the introduction she was asked where she thought her husband was that evening. She informed host Michael Aspel that he should be in Germany. In enters Robert with big smile, well smirk anyway. Aspel does introductions on who Fripp is and then shows brief clip of King Crimson playing "Elephant Talk", taken from an episode of The Old Grey Whistle Test. Fripp now proceeds to give an amusing anecdote on how Fripp and Toyah first met. All through the show Fripp lovingly holds Toyahs' hand. Aspel describes how Robert and Toyah fell in love. This happened when Toyah sang "Freedom", a track from The Sunday All Over the World album, an extract which is then played. This next bit you are not going to believe, but it is true. Fripp, tearfully and lovingly states "I fell in love with my wife when she sung this song and I have been in love with her ever since". The whole audience go ah!! Great stuff. This was not the Fripp we have all come to believe from his onstage persona. He was very genial, relaxed and charming. Toyah was her usual bubbly, energetic self throughout. This is the nearest we will probably get to seeing, Fripp - This is Your LIfe. Well maybe, you never know! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 23:36:28 +0100 (BST) From: Gareth Page Subject: this is your life,Toyah Something remarkable happened this evening (4th October) One of the UK terrestrial TV programmes, This Is Your Life, featured Toyah Wilcox. The show has a pretty tired format: presenter surprises victim, presenter takes victim back to the studio, presenter wheels in loads of old associates of victim (ie presenter embarasses victim).... The first guest was husband Robert, who had told Toyah he was touring in Germany. Michael Aspel (presenter) introduced RF as "making a name for himself in King Crimson" and showed a 1985 (or was it '84) clip of Crimso playing ET, lasting perhaps 5 seconds. This whole thing was unnerving because I find it very very VERY difficult to believe that Robert would have anything to do with such a naff TV prog. After his introduction, he said a few words about a couple of photos in their bedroom, didn't listen too closely, I'm ashamed that I even watched one show! He didn't say anything else until they were talking about Toyah's musical career. She released a single (uh, what was it called, again) in 1986 that had the effect of turning him into a jellyfish. He was obviously filled with emotion at this point, and said that was when he fell in love with his dear little wife. Kevin Godley made a guest appearance as a video producer. Robert sitting quietly? Could have been a Crimso gig! It is obvious that he loves Toyah deeply. GP ------------------------------ Subject: SALE From: sma6 at juno dot com (Scott M Arnold) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 19:11:27 EDT Its seems that because of recent difficulties, I need money fast. This is of course good for everyone else. I am selling these things: Pleasure in Pieces (vinyl) Network (vinyl) Lady or the Tiger? (vinyl) Earthbound (italien Cassette) First Day (vinyl) Damage (CD) and there is probably more. If you are interested, mail to me for prices, and I will have a more complete list of things. If there are any official releases that you cnat seem to find let me know, I may be willing. (ie. Great Deceiver, Frame by Frame) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 04:58:22 EDT From: rowandc at lucas dot e-mail dot com Subject: Fripp on BBC Hi, ETers, Just thought I'd drop a quick line in to let British ETers know that Mr Fripp was on "This Is Your Life" last night! Not, unfortunately, his life, but that of his delectable, if small, missus, Toyah. He spent the whole half hour under the studio spotlights, talked about their relationship and even smiled once or twice! BTW, Toyah hosts a late night talk show on ITV (The Good Sex Guide Late) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 96 09:08:33 EDT From: c62op27 at ibx dot com (Victor Fiorillo) Subject: Soundscapes Technology Does anyone have any information on the technology Robert Fripp uses to create his loops, soundscapes, etc. Is it MIDI, analog, digital, etc? Any information would be greatly appreciated ------------------------------ Date: 05 Oct 96 15:41:03 EDT From: Ian Calder <101460 dot 571 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: Robert Fripp appearance on UK TV show Strange but true (part 94)... The long running UK TV show 'This Is Your Life' was devoted to Toyah Willcox last night (4.10.96) and, yes, Robert Fripp was there too! Covering Toyah's life story was of course the main gig, but there was room for a (very) brief live snippet of KC performing in 1981 ('Elephant Talk') followed by Mr Fripp's explanation of how the couple came to meet etc. Ian Calder ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 17:08:06 -0600 (CST) From: Alicia Sepulveda Subject: Op Zop Too Wah This is the album I've been hoping Adrian would do since I was a child. It has, for starters, what I think is the strongest bunch of songs Adrian has written. A couple of tracks still sound like the Beatles '96- certainly not my cup of coffe but still they're very well done. Besides, it finds Adrian toning down his sometimes gratingly exaggerated sense of humor (some previous posts on this album commented how hysterical and weird it is, but I actually find it as one of his most mature). The production is really cluttered and oppressive (a big plus) and it features easily his best guitar (and drums and bass) playing yet- further proof that guitaristically speaking he's got Fripp totally beat (flame on, flame on). I could make a glowing praise out of almost every song, but suffice to say that the bitter 'What do you know pt1', with it's hard-strummed acoustics and venom-laced vocals, the state of the art modern pop of 'On' and 'All her love is mine', the punishing riffs and 7/8 grooves of 'I remember how to forget', the killer (complete with a Claypoolish bassline) title track and the offbeat but imposing and heartfelt 'Modern man Hurricane Blues' (yeah, it's a real blues- no gimmick, no white boy crap) are easily the best solo work he's produced. In short, this is a wonderful, mature, often surprisingly bitter pop album that eliminates most of the shortcomings of his previous work and that everyone with the slightest respect for Adrian has to buy. Pablo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:54:27 -0400 From: "Jean M. Adams" Subject: Re: A Tony Levin Story Fellow ETers, Tony has posted his 15 page speech that he gave at the conservatory on his Papa Bear web page, I saw a link to it from his most recient letter from Tony (Oct 1, I think), the address http://www.papabear.com Jean ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:35:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: Solaris Guitar Trio in Baltimore 10/12/96 Solaris Guitar Trio will be performing at Orion Studios located at 2903 Whittington Avenue in Baltimore, MD on Saturday October 12th at 7:30 pm. The performance will include original pieces as well as a bit of LoCG material. Also appearing that night will be finneus gauge (featuring former echolyn keyboardist/songwriter Chris Buzby) in their premier public performance Closing out the night will be Discipline. Tickets can be charged in advance at $10 apiece by calling Of Sound Mind at (301)497-6488 or they can be purchased at the door for $15. See http://prog.ari.net/prog/shows/showcase/ for further details. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:20:27 -0400 From: Otherroad at aol dot com Subject: Hammill, Belew, Gunn and more The new Discipline release, Peter Hammill's new album, "PAST GO: Collected," is now out an you'll find it in The Artist Shop with cover graphic and RealAudio soundbite. This album is a collection of tracks from six of his most hard to find CD's - "Enter K" "Patience" "Fireships" "The Noise" "Loops and Reels" and "Roaring Forties." For any of you not fortunate enough to have been exposed to Hammill's solo work or with Van der Graaf Generator, this is a wonderful place to start and will definitely send a jolt of electricity through you. Belew's "Op Zop Too Wah" is finally out! This is really Belew's crowning solo achievement. It sounds like some of this could have been written with the intention of being Crimson material. I also hear a lot of Zappa here. Adrian is really pulling from his experiences with other great artists on this one. He has learned well. Much thanks to Rob for his enthusiastic linking. Just a reminder that the answer to all those who've asked, "Which parts exactly is Trey Gunn playing in King Crimson?" can be found on his new album, The Third Star. My favorite track is the title song - true ambient beauty recorded with Italian diva, Alice. Trey also covers much stylistic ground on this remarkable album. But apart from vocals and percussion, every other note on this album is Trey. And it will become obvious to anyone hearing this great album that Trey is playing a very significant part in this Crimson. Also of interest, David Sylvian's old Japan cohorts - Steve Jansen, Richard Barbieri and Mick Karn - have recently joined The Artist Shop through their independent label, Medium Productions. If you like "The Third Star," you'll definitely love what you find on this label. Be sure to check out their soundbites. And while you're at it, you might want to wonder over to the Alchemy Records section to check out the new album by Gary Willis, bassist from Tribal Tech and Allan Holdsworth's band. He is a truly remarkable musician and his new album, "No Sweat" is proof of this. Someone recently inquired about a Ryuichi Sakamoto album featuring Belew and Robin Scott. That album is called "Left Handed Dream." I have the original vinyl. However, and unfortunately, I've never seen it on CD. To the person who inquired about The Great Deceiver, this is a live box set from Crimson's Fripp/Bruford/Wetton/Cross era. This is absolutely essential for any fan of this era of Crimson. And if you're not familiar with this era, it's still a damn good buy from a damn good band. We can get that for you. Just check out the Text Catalog of The Artist Shop. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:16:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: Maximum Mincer (et311) Jeremy smelled something fishy in ET 311 regarding the supposed connection between the GD box's 'Law of Maximum Distress" , from a Zurich concert, and The Mincer, also supposedly from the Zurich concert (according to Tamm's Fripp bio) but revamped for the S&BB album. I don't see that there's really a problem. The tape runs out not at the end of Pt I of LoMD (as the notes to the box seem to imply), but at the end of Mincer. Why didn't Fripp incllude the Mincer part of the improv? Why does Fripp do any of the annoying things he does to his recorded work? ;> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:43:14 +0900 From: kaori-i at tokyo dot ndu dot ac dot jp Subject: Members of the Chasing the Dragon Hello, in ET#310, Nel3 at aol dot com wrote, >Wetton's voice seemed shot on his Chasing the Dragon album (especially as it >had to compete with the drum-heavy mix, and a faceless and untalented >supporting cast of players) Please wait! The supporting members aren`t faceless (In fact, I think they are handsome :-). The keyboardist (JohnBeck) and the drummer (BobDulton) was the members of ItBites. And the guitarist (AndySkelton) appears on "VoxHumana" by GeoffDownes. I saw the live in Japan, read some interviews, and talked with John and Bob. They said that they had a little time to rehearse-only 4 days-. And John didn`t play the key since ItBites splited up (he said he`d like to be the guiterist). Please consider about the facts. And please listen ItBites. They are very talented. This mail may not fit for ET. Sorry. Kaori Ito ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 04:51:43 GMT Subject: Crimso Encounter From: stubits at nyc dot pipeline dot com (Richard W. Stubits) Crimso Encounter...Autumn, 1995 - HMV Record store on West 72nd Street, New York. I am waiting to meet some friends prior to attending Elvis Costello/They Might Be Giants Concert at the Beacon Theater when I notice a man following me about the store and looking at me strangely. After about 20 min. this fellow finally approaches me and asks me where I got the "In The Court" T-shirt I am wearing. I tell him I had seen the band in June and had bought the shirt via mail order. I am thoroughly shocked, however, when he told me that HE was in the band that made that album! I suddenly realize tha I'm speaking to IAN MACDONALD. I told him of my appreciation for his tremendous contribution to THE ALBUM. He seemed genuinely nice, and actually went for coffee with a friend of mine a few days later. He had no idea that Fripp was selling the shirts and didn't seem too happy about that! Regards, Rich Stubits stubits at nyc dot pipeline dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:18:18 +0100 From: e dot mayall at ic dot ac dot uk Subject: Michael Nyman, This is your life Hello, I seem to remember this being mentioned in ET previosly, but a search failed to reveal anything - possibly due to indexing lag. From the booklet accompanying Michael Nyman's recent CD After Extra Time, there is a reprint of a Guardian review by Waldemar Januszczak of the first performance of his tribute to the victims of the Heysal Stadium riot, Memorial. Quoting one sentence from the review: "The orchestra was the largest Nyman has worked with. 15 strong, the string and horn sections backed up by electric guitar and bass, and a drummer who used to be with King Crimson." A couple of points on this: firstly, does anyone know which Drummer this is. I know David Cunningham has worked with both Nyman, and with Jamie Muir and Michael Giles, but am unaware that either of these has completed the link. Also, I've heard several different versions of Memorial, and none of them would seem to have any part for, or need for, drums. Completely separately, my wife tells me she was flicking through the channels on Friday night, and came across This Is Your Life, featuring one Toyah Willcox and an extremely un-British outpouring of emotion from her husband. Did anyone else in Blighty catch this? And was it really as bad as these things normally are. Maybe Fripp was just upset that they weren't doing him. Ed PS Watch out for PACIFIC - they're going to be as big as... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 05:43:09 -0700 From: Pat Malecek Organization: MAC Subject: The Bears, Psychodots, etc. My first post; pardon any digital blunders . . . In response to Denver poster Tim Boyd's questions about Bears/Psychodots personnel: The Bears consisted of AB, of course, Rob Fetters, guitar, Bob Nyswonger (spelling?), bass, and Chris Arduser, drums. The two albums they put out with AB on board were preceeded by an album under the name The Raisins. Vinyl copies of The Raisins release were at one time available from Umbrella management or Strugglebaby records--I'm not certain; I ordered mine many moons ago, and memory fades. Anyway, the album does not feature AB playing, but I think maybe he produced. Again, memory fades. A version of "Fear Is Never Boring" is on the record as is a great version of the Stones' "19th Nervous Breakdown." I had the pleasure of seeing the Bears three times in St. Louis--great shows all. Then, some time later, I was in a band playing at South by Southwest in Austin, TX, and Belew, backed by the original Bears folks, played right after us! Very cool! This was, I think, 1993 or 1994. AB played this gorgeous dark purple Strat. I believe the set consisted of some new AB stuff, some Bears stuff, and some Psychodots stuff. He and Fetters both played smallish combos, like Fender Twins or something, and they coaxed the most raucous sounds from them. A terrific show . . . very loud . . . Fetters did "the balloon trick." A good time was had by all. To top it off, I got AB's autograph on a guitar of mine. (I've since added Reeves Gabrel's autograph to the same guitar). Since then, I remember receiving mailings from the Psychodots, promoting new releases and tour dates, but I've lost track in recent years. PS - When is this live KC/Thrak video coming out? I admit I've lived my shallow life without ever seeing them live. Pat Malecek pmalecek at mail dot state dot mo dot us ------------------------------ Date: 7 Oct 1996 21:55:30 -0700 From: "Suzanne Westbrook" Subject: New John Wetton Page Toby and the rest of the movers and shakers at Elephant Talk: Hello and Greetings from smoggy California. My name is Ramesh Iyer, I'm 25 and an independent filmmaker. I've browsed your page several times . I'm very impressed by the layout and information that you offer! Anyway,I wanted to let you know that I've created a new web site devoted to John Wetton who as you know was an important member in the Crimso family '73-'74. I invite you to browse it. I think you'll find my page (both in text and graphics) very informative. Here is the URL: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/8099/wetton.html I've been an admirer of Wetton for quite some time and when a friend at Dreamworks urged me to make a web page, Wetton came to mind. The reason: There really isn't a concise discography on the web, so I compiled one from the years of collecting Wetton and his various (he should get the record for the most!) bands. Well, I look forward to your comments and criticisms about the page. You can e-mail me at: suzannew at amgen dot com Best Regards, Ramesh P.S. I made links to your page! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 20:18:21 -0400 From: PYYZ at aol dot com Subject: "Indiscipline" Hello King Crimson fans, I would just like to talk a little about my favorite KC song "Indiscipline". Ever since I first heard this song back in 1981 I still can't beleive the musicianship and raw "intensity" of it! If you havn't listened to it in a while put it on and just listen to the drumming of Bill Bruford on this song! The guitar and bass lines are also "unbeleivable". I know there are many other great KC songs to mention as well. I would really like to hear about some of the other KC favorites from other fans! Also,pick up the new Trey Gunn "The Third Star" and Tony Levin's "World Diary",you won't be disappointed! Peter L. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:47:00 -0400 (EDT) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: Wind chords Thanks to Mike Johnson for the I Talk to the Wind transcription. Perhaps I am too late in pointing out that: E C G chords for the verse sound correct when a maj7 is added (especially the G) and that the chords at The wind does not hear..should, of course be, Am followed by B rather than the other way around. Cheers! ------------------------------ From: Matthew Nolan Date: Tue, 8 Oct 96 11:19:10 BST Subject: Videos and Box Sets Those of you who haven't seen the Double Trio, those of you who have, those of you who have trouble convincing friends to listen to KC, those of you who can't pick out who plays what, and the rest of you too - Rush out and buy the Live in Japan (Oct '95) Video. OK, so it's not as good as actually seeing a gig but you do have the advantage of close-ups. And as Mr Belew is reported to have said, it was very early on in the Thrak tour and the band wasn't as tight and energetic as later on (so they're just brilliant rather than incredible). You can get it from Poss Prods or DGM if you can't find it in any shops. Messrs Levin and Bruford are especially on form (that build up to Indiscipline!) On to less related matters - two requests for information from a friend of mine (replies direct, not via ET please) 1. Does anyone know of the existence of any Video footage from Frank Zappa's infamous '88 tour. Preferably legit but bootlegs considered. 2. Does anyone know (facts NOT rumours) the release date for the first Genesis box set (the Gabriel years one). My friend was recently traumatised by rumours indicating a 1.5yr delay due to legal wranglings - so good news only please. A question from myself: What kind of bit did Adrian use for the Thrak improv power-drill incedents. In the Japan video he appears to first 'drill' the scratch-plate to the side of a pick-up (without damage it seems) and then runs the bit down a string whilst it spins. My father suspects it may be plastic. Thats all folks, Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:00:39 -0400 From: Dantalion6 at aol dot com Subject: The Mincer's Law Of Maximum Distress Hello again, fellow ETers - In the most recent Elephant Talk, Jeremy posted some questions about my finding that The Mincer was the missing part of the Law Of Maximum Distress. I stated that you could get a better understanding of the improv if you played: The Law Of Maximum Distress Part I The Mincer The Law Of Maximum Distress Part II Jeremy's first question: If the tape machine "ran out," how come they have the missing tape piece AT ALL? This doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Answer: Playing the CDs in the order listed above, I found that several seconds of the improv are missing on both sides of The Mincer (compared to my audience recording of the complete, uninterrupted improv). This leads me to conclude that when the tape ran out, it occurred either just before or just after The Mincer part of the improv, and that the soundman quickly changed the tape so that only a few seconds were lost. Fripp then chose to use only a portion of the improv on the album Starless and Bible Black. Jeremy's second question: Also, why couldn't Fripp tack the Mincer onto the improv? If these are the missing minutes, he could have pasted them on, right? And there surely must be a way (from the masters) to remove the vocals, so we can hear the song in its true form. Answer: I am sure that Robert could have chosen to leave the improv intact on the Great Deceiver, with the exception of a break of a few seconds. Perhaps he chose to omit this portion of the improv since it was already available on Starless and Bible Black. He did his best within the time constraints of the 4 CD set to include the material that he considered to be the most important. As a result, only about 40 minutes of the 80 minute performance was included on the Great Deceiver. I hope this answers your questions. By the way, to Crimson fans who have yet to purchase The Great Deceiver, I highly recommend buying it. This is quite possibly their greatest released recording. Cigarettes, ice cream, figurines of the Virgin Mary ...... Carl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 17:26:07 -0400 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Mrs. Fripp, this is your life Did any UK Eter's video tape Robert Fripp's recent appearance on This Is Your Life which featured Toyah Wilcox ? If yes, let me know what the chances are of organising a copy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:07:46 -0500 From: lisaw at weightman dot com Subject: Women/ET >Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:09:21 -0500 >To:jk011e at uhura dot cc dot rochester dot edu >From:lisaw at weightman dot com >Subject:Women/ET > >Yes, virginia, there are women subscribers to ET. Some of them even post. >But, as in all forms of public discourse, from talk radio to the >classroom, the male of the species is more likely to put his two cents >in... Don't be shy -- you are not alone. Lisa. --------------------------------------------------- | Lisa Wetherby * The Weightman Group | | lisaw at weightman dot com * Philadelphia, PA | | (215) 977-1820 (direct) | | (215) 977-1850 (fax) | | The Weightman Group/Public Relations Team | --------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 13:30:55 -0600 From: Chris Mitchell Subject: Mincer & Maximum Distress Regarding the question of whether "The Mincer" is the missing link from "Law of Maximum Distress"....has anyone mentioned the recording dates? The Scrapbook to the Frame By Frame boxset notes that "Mincer" was recorded in Zurich on Nov. 15th, 1973. The concert that featured "Maximum Distress" is also Zurich, 11/15/73, according to the Great Deceiver's liner. Q.E.D. [let's hope] The musical similarties are quite suspicious, too. "Maximum Distress Part Two" definitely sounds like a continuation of the rhythm and key of "Mincer." What probably happened was that the original reel ran out, and the engineer hurriedly put on another (capturing Mincer), then THAT reel ran out (hence the choopy end of Mincer), and a third reel recorded the rest of the show. The gaps between the three separate recorded parts of that improv were probably too jagged to weld into one complete track. Anyway, it's good music, n'est pas? Chris M. "Wot gorilla?" ------------------------------ From: Phil Clarke Date: Wed, 9 Oct 96 10:40:03 +0100 Subject: Re: Greg Lake + Islands availability James MacKenzie Crawford wrote: > No, Cadance and Cascade on FBF proves - Adrian rules! Besides, Greg Lake > smokes way too much to expect the everlasting vocal range. A couple of years back, Greg's voice was sounding past its best. However, he has apparently quit smoking and is now sounding a whole load better on ELP's current tour. Alas, as I live on the wrong continent I have been unable to verify this first hand but general opinion in the ELP Digest is that he sounds a lot better than he did on the last couple of ELP studio albums and isn't very far off his form in the 70's. On a completely different subject...is Islands still available? I think I read somewhere that it was deleted a year or so back and I haven't seen it anywhere recently. If it has been deleted, why? ...and is it going to be reissued in the foreseeable future? It seems really odd that the whole back catalogue of studio albums isn't currently produced for a band like KC - for most other bands, even the albums that suck (as unanimously certified by the entire known world) are easy to find. Weird... Phil. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:19:26 +0100 From: Ferenc Riesz Subject: Ligeti was Hungarian, not Romanian ! >From: zeppo at thrak dot pp dot fi (Arto Seppala) >Subject: soundscapes for orchestra > >I remember someone was wondering how would orchestral KC sound like. How >about orchestral soundscapes? Check out a Romanian composer Gyorgy Ligeti, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Oh God ! No ! No ! He was Hungarian !!!! :))) especially his works Atmospheres, Lontano and Lux Aeterna. They're just great. Arto. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 12:35:14 EDT From: c62op27 at ibx dot com (Victor Fiorillo) Subject: GuitarCraft Literature Is there any literature/documentation available re: GuitarCraft and related topics? I am interested in something that might go along with the actual classes. victor fiorillo, Philadelphia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:00:56 -0600 From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: The Mincer's Law Of Maximum Distress In ET 311 Jeremy S. Weissenburger wrote: >In the most recent Elephant Talk, Dantalion6 at aol dot com noted that The Mincer >was the missing part of the Law Of Maximum Distress. You could get a >better understanidng of the improv if you played: > >The Law Of Maximum Distress Part I >The Mincer >The Law Of Maximum Distress Part II > >My question is: If the tape machine "ran out," how come they have the >missing tape piece AT ALL? This doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? My guess is (if Dantalion6 at aol dot com is correct) that the tape ran out in only one place -- in the middle of the improv, at the end of what we know as The Mincer. When Fripp compiled the boxed set, since the tape had run out, he had to break the improv into two parts whether he included The Mincer section or not. Since The Mincer has taken on its own identity as a song, I would guess that Fripp simply deleted that section of the improv from the version that's on the boxed set, so we still have two sections of the improv, neither of which contain The Mincer. I kind of wonder how much of the improv is missing during the space between the end of The Mincer and the beginning of The Law Of Maximum Distress Part II. ************************************** Eric D. Dixon * Harry Browne for President * eric at webpro-1 dot com * http://www.HarryBrowne96.org * ************************************** "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." -- George Washington, Treaty of Tripoli 1796 ------------------------------ Date: 10 Oct 1996 12:12:53 -0700 From: "Jim Bricker" Subject: Live In Japan - 1995 AVAILA All, checked the DGM page for giggles (being a U.S. citizen I can't order from there...) and they list the above as "new," but I don't know if that means "available." Nothing on the Possible Productions page on this being orderable from the U.S. yet. Anyone with more info??? JB in San Jose ==================== THE INFO: King Crimson: Live In Japan - 1995 (video), #163#12.00 VHS Video Cassette PAL format Recorded live at the Nakano Sun Plaza, Tokyo on the 5th and 6th of October 1995. Featuring: Robert Fripp (guitar) Adrian Belew (guitar and voice) Trey Gunn (Warr-guitar) Tony Levin (bass and Stick) Pat Mastelotto (drums) Bill Bruford (drums) Long-awaited footage of the double trio performing material from the 1995 Virgin album THRAK and a host of live favourites from their extensive back catalogue. Live in Japan is the only King Crimson video currently available. "Technically brilliant and nearing 30. . . King Crimson play without putting a chord wrong all night. . ." Sunday Telegraph (live review July 7 1996 - Shepherds Bush Empire concert.) Running time:105 minutes. CAT NO DGMVC1 PRICE #163#12.00 1. VROOOM 2. Frame By Frame 3. Dinosaur 4. One Time 5. Red 6. B'Boom 7. THRAK 8. Matte Kudasai 9. Three Of A Perfect Pair 10. VROOOM VROOOM 11. Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream 12. Elephant Talk 13. Indiscipline 14. Talking Drum 15. Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part II 16. People 17. Walking On Air ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:31:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "ROBERT HICKSON (908) 218-6296" Subject: OZTW Is it just me? I can't get "Op Zop Too Wah" out of my head! Adrian Belew must be in the midst of a period of prolific creativity. Between his writing with KC, the experimental guitar series and OZTW, the man is creating some truly wonderful music. OZTW seems like the personal expression from a man of his love. The 21 songs are strung together, creating almost a single piece with a stream of consciousness flow. Yet each track is dated suggesting separate points in time - separate thoughts - this being a matter not to be taken lightly. There is a sense of conflict in the music - the idealistic and optimistic young artist confronting a bitter elder, but the overall feel of this disk is one of joy and celebration. For years I have viewed the artist Belew as not unlike a precocious child, playing not only for amusement but with curiosity and enthusiasm, perhaps occasionally annoying the grown-ups. OZTW shows the confidence of the artist and the true love with which he approaches his craft. Bravo. Around these parts, I suspect this one will be judged straight down party lines. If you are an Adrian fan already, you will love it. If you are not an Adrian fan, you might be sitting in a dark room patiently waiting for the next soundscapes release. ------------------------------ From: "Shakespeare & Co. (PS13)" Subject: Gyorgy Ligeti Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:37:03 +-100 In the latest Elephant Talk Newsletter, "Zeppo" sings the praises of the modern classical composer Gyorgy Ligeti. As an avid listener to all things adventurous--including of course things Crimson--I also highly recommend his works which, I venture to guess, may have been an influence on Fripp's soundscapes. However, "Zeppo" says that Ligeti is a Romanian. This is untrue. Although born in Transylvania (now part of Romania), Ligeti is of Hungarian ethnic background and is now an Austrian citizen. Perhaps a pendantic point, but Central Europeans are sensitive to such things. --Travis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 20:24:45 UT From: "Kurt Jonach" Subject: Re: King Crimson in "Wired"? Rick, Adrienne, et al. With regard to the WIRED article pitch, there a few things we all know about KC that you may want to mention: The relationship between KC and their label DGM, where the band retains rights to the music: self-empowered rock band, pretty WIRED. One of the motivations to release B'Boom was the ET newsletter: fans talk back to self-empowered rock band and rock band *listens*, very WIRED. Look up a recent "Pop" article about progressive rock at hotwired.com and you'll get a feel for their opinion about that style of music. Robert Fripp has mentioned how that musical genre no longer interests him and you may want talk about how the band has evolved. WIRED has had nice things to say about two recent KC releases: VROOOM (3.03 Mar 1995) and B'Boom (4.06 June 1996). Some different perspectives: What makes artists of such varying skills, backgrounds and temperaments work together as a team anyway? Lastly, over the past 15 years or so I've met lots of programmers who listen to KC. A recent programming example for MS Windows OLE I came across--on a Microsoft Developer Network CD, no less--had class member names inspired by the lyrics to Elephant Talk. What makes nerds and geeks--like anybody in the ET news group --like KC so much anyway? -kj ------------------------------ Date: 10 Oct 96 20:05:39 EDT From: Jeff Birkel <74017 dot 3700 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: Hubris, fantasy and a riddle. Hello world! (of ET) I have been lurking for several months now but have not posted until today. Thanks to all posters for making ET such an enjoyable newsletter. (Also to Toby et. al.) Three of an Inital Post: I) I Quote Myself When Under Stress... This may be an act of complete hubris but after reading some recent posts about mellotron it occured to me that the following excerpt belonged in the pages of ET. It is from an e-mail message that I sent to a friend in which I am recommending THRaKaTTaK: "If you like nearly pure chaos, corrupted only now and again by raw intensity then this album is the one. I can't begin to discuss this album rationally. It's like everything they ever tried to do with their loose improvisations finally working, with a moody underbelly that sounds like a mellotron on overload, except this is an advanced mellotron on steroids, a digitized, sampling, supercomputer Collosus, struck like a guitar, and driven by the sublime mind of Fripp. (I told you I couldn't discuss it rationally.) I think his new sound is called "soundscapes". I may be leaving out the other five members of the band. They are all there at different times, but this is an album where you definitely hear the forest and not the trees. The big winner is the pounding, thrilling, (disturbing at times) uninterrupted landscape of music that... (oh no, my brain's exploded!)" (Please note that this was originally a private message to a friend, had I been writing for the sophisticated readers of ET I would've tried hard to sound more intelligent and dignified.) II) Lone Rhino Endangered Species? A lot of people seem to want to write about the quality of Adrian's singing. When I saw KC on their Discipline tour I must admit that Adrian seemed a little out of place in the middle of such giants as RF, BB and TL. But he does grow on one. Still, it might be fun to play a little Fantasy Football with the the KC line-up, particularly the role of lead singer. Imagine some of these names crooning KC tunes: Peter Gabriel, David Byrne, Daryl Hall, Sting, Terry Roche. (Who else?) III) I Talk to the (electronic) Wind... A riddle for all ETers. Sometime in the vicinty of 1980, 81 and 82 I went to a concert at the old Cleveland Agora at which Adrian Belew was the front man for the opening bad, and RF the lead guitarist for the headliner. Neither band was King Crimson. What were the name of both bands? -jb- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 16:34:58 +0100 From: Jostein Ansnes Subject: Robert Fripp Hello, I found your address by reading the Elephant Talk pages. My name is Jostein Ansnes, I`m 24 years old and are studying music at the University of Trondheim in Norway. Since I was 18 I have been a big fan of King Crimson and Robert Fripp, and that has led to that I`m doing some work about Fripps music. I`m going to wright an essay on about 100 pages about avantgarde rock with mainstress on Fripp and especially his frippertronic works. This essay will include an history about avantgarde guitar players, and I will try to analyse Fripps guitar playing on a few pieces. The reason why I wright to you, is the fact that I have tried to get Eric Tamms book about Robert Fripp, but it seem to be impossible. It is sold out from Faber and I dont know anyone who can lend it to me. So I wonder if you know if there is anywhere I can get the book, or you know somebody who is willing to sell it to me. I`m also interested in information about articles and other stuff that can be useful. Yours faithfully Jostein Ansnes ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #311 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 96 18:31:43 -0000 From: Philip Good Victor Fiorillo writes: >Is the Great Deceiver box still available retail? If so, is it something I >should be able to find at Tower/HMV or do I need to order from another >source? Is it the one with the four CDs, the fourth being a totally live >disc? Or is that something else? > I just bought the box set two weeks ago at Tower Records. It is FANTASTIC. If you liked USA (and I had been looking for USA on CD for years) you will love the Great Deceiver. I'm on my second time throgh the set. It is great value in that the 4 CD's are 60-70 minutes each. What I find amazing is the how the way they played a song could change so drastically in that 2 year period. I beleive there are songs from consecutive nights on tour in '74 which have very different feels to them. Also very interesting to note is how much the band changed from '73-'74. In the beginning of '73 they still seemed to have a lot of *Court* influence and feel, still kinda artsie. By '74 they were, in my opinion, on the cutting edge of raw, improvizational music. Nothing like it. Been a long time Fripp/Crimson and all connected (Camel, National Health, etc..) fan and am enjoying the ET immensely! Philip Good ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:01:37 +0100 From: Chris Limb Subject: Tellurian Online Hello This is just a brief note to let you know that Toyah's official website Tellurian Online is now, ah, online. Oh yes, mustn't forget this: http://www.nephthys.demon.co.uk/telluria.htm Cheers -- Chris Limb chris at nephthys dot demon dot co dot uk c dot limb at ioe dot ac dot uk 0181 923 8920 Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/ ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #312 ********************************