Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #307 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 307 Wednesday, 18 September 1996 Today's Topics: KC concert Bentmen -- oh God! The THRaKaTTaK car experiment ET T-shirts TV spots. lyrics of the third star New Crimso bands Palmer-James plus Scott Merritt/Adrian Belew News! Re: Crapola Polyrhythms / record player Thrak/Beatles Original Larks Tounges Band KC in XTC Stickwire? Solaris Guitar Trio in Baltimore non et info:Dream Concert 73-74 Videos?? KC vs. Talking Heads Re: Michael Giles Another view of Kronos Down in Front! & The Double Trio Format The thrashing of Kronos Kronos Giles Bent Separated at Birth? The Third Star/Ghost Dance Fripp/Eno/Effects The Double Trio: an observation- Including... RE: Elephant Talk Digest #306 Undancable odd-time signatures? dancing & standing: an apology. ToaPP CD, trade? FAQ help thanks! The King Crimson Drinking Game The Great Deception KC Contraband ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:30:59 -0700 From: cluesump at sirius dot com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan) Subject: KC concert Hello all, I've been in the list 2 weeks ago and I think I should share something. Here are my note after I came back seeing KC at Greek Theatre (Berkeley) on July 26. I'm extremely good and very happy (just for a while, for today). I just came back from Thrakattak concert. I've never thought I can see they played really close about less than 10 metres. I was very excited. Most people are around 35 up I think, I saw just 4 or 5 Asian people there. It's too cold, I was lucky I brought a jacket with me because Greek Theatre (in UC Berkeley) is outdoor but the sound systems is very good. The opening band is "Wild Colonials" from North Ireland (now they play in LA). This band has a female vocalist and she dressed like hippies but the music is kind of normal to me, isn't interesting. This band has violin player. They played from 8.00 PM - 8.30 PM. I saw people walked around and eating when they played, a few people including me paid attention to them. At 8.45, KC came out, you know Fripp just sat in the back and very quiet. Here are the songs : - THELA HUN GINJEET (I saw Levin wore the long metal pipes in his two fingers (I do not know how it calls) - DICIPLINE (I was very surprised why Fripp did not show his solo in this song but Belew did, I meant Fripp just played for the background music. That's so weird.) - DINOSAUR - ONE TIME - THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR (Levin played stick really cool) - DRUM SOLOES AND FRIPPERTONIC (Fripp sat again, it's kind like there is no Fripp on stage.) - VROOOM - NEUROTICA (I've never taught they would played this song in their recently show.) - WAITING MAN (Is that correct, I forgot the name.) - 21 ST CENTURY SCHIZOID MAN (I could not believe they did, everybody stood up and applauded. Very impressed! Belew said this song have not been played in San Francisco before. It's true may be never play in their shows in last 2-3 years.) Belew's voice is a little bit higher than Greg Lake. I have a question for you, a guy right next to me sait this song (21 st ..) had been written by The Kinks. Is it true ? I think it should be written by Pete Sinfield, isn't it ? - song from BEAT I forgot its name (too slow but beautiful) - ELEPHANT TALK - SEX SLEEP EAT DRINK DREAM - INDICIPLINE (very nice) *-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FIRST ENCORE - percussions solo by Bruford (He was in a good mood today, always laughed), Pat and Belew - LARKS TONGUES IN ASPIC (Aaaaaaah cooool! I was waiting for a long time just heard this song it's enough for me, you know.) *-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SECOND ENCORE - THRAK (great improvisation) They finished about 10.30 PM. Nobody wanted to get home they all stood up and applauded but the light was turned on, so that's all for tonight but noone can forget this event. *-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had talked to somebody who sat next to me, he said their last show KC did 3 encores. He was wondered maybe Fripp was sick he sat all the times and did not have any word. He told me there is French film called "Emmanuel", they used Larks Tongues for music score in the love scene, and KC knew about that but they didn't do any thing to the director of the film. Somebody told me KC would play _One More Red Nightmare_ but they did not. Most of the songs are from 3rd era (Belew era). I don't think Belew can sing as strong as Wetton if they played _Easy Money_ or _Starless_. I bought the KC program book (very beautiful), t-shirts (Larks tongues (long sleeve) & Thrak) too big for me but I like it. I hope you enjoy reading my message. I've no one I can tell about this. And sorry for my poor English. See you, AE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:24:09 +0000 From: David Kirkdorffer Organization: little a Subject: Bentmen -- oh God! Previously... > From: d dot gosselin at johnabbott dot qc dot ca (Daniel Gosselin) > As anyone ever heard of a band called "Bentmen"? > > Their new (only?) video features an anonymus Adrian Belew playing wild > guitar and also Robert Fripp (only as an icon for the clip, as I believe he > does not play any musical instrument in this band (?)). > > Can anyone feed more info? Well, i can give you a bit of information about Bentmen. Bentmen is a Boston-based rock..., er "outfit" lead by Bill "Des" Desmond. Des is well known to many Boston musician as he runs two rehearsal complexes here called The Sound Museum. Bentmen are theatrical and quite out there. Sonically, Bentmen are a wild stew of industrial rhythms and feedback noise-guitar accompanying narratives from Des about child molesting circus clowns (for example). Their performances are are equally unique. They dress the stages they play completely transforming them into strange tinsle and chicken-wire environments. They have brought food catapaults and other devices on-stage and generally create the most amazing mess. The Residents meet Gwar? Band members will all be in different costumes for each show so bizarre it's quite amazing they can even play or see anything. Reeves Gabrels (on and off again guitar man for David Bowie), has been an on again off again Bentmen member. He's also on the recent album. A few years ago, Adrian Belew recorded a few tracks for Des. I'm 99.9% certain Adrian is not a member. Someone once told me the first time the KC double trio came to Boston (Orpheum), Adrian said something like: Hi, we're the Bentmen." Anyone else got a word on that? Anyway, over the years I've openned for them twice. Their performances are rare. Worth catching them if you're in the Boston area and want to see something different. David Kirkdorffer ------------------------------ From: max dot bracco at iol dot it Date: Sat, 14 Sep 96 16:13:03 Subject: The THRaKaTTaK car experiment Hi to all crazy ETers, Do you wanna see the most surprised faces of all times ? I happened by chance to make a weird experiment, that I suggest you to try yourself. I was going around with my car and THRaKaTTaK was all cranked up in my car stereo system, with windows wide open for the summer heat. Actually I saw extremely weird expressions on the faces of people walking in the streets : and soon I realized the reason was the sudden and unexpected exposure to the Devilish sounds of this record. Some old ladies were fightened, as if they had been witnesses to a murder ; a young girl driving a car beside mine, and waiting for the green traffic light, looked at me with anxiety wondering if I might be a raper. A mid-age businessman showed a disgusted face, probably meaning "I hate all this punk stuff". The violence of this music, and the alien rage coming from its impact, seemed to cause fear and immediate discomfort to average middle culture people. You must consider that the THRaKaTTaK probability of being broadcasted on an Italian commercial station is one in a million ; so this was really a case of sudden and forced exposure to completely unheard and abrasive sounds. But there were also positive reactions. A group of youngsters, all dressed in black and longhaired, cheered and shouted in approval (even if it was clear they had no idea of what hell of a band these weird sounds came from). Some of them even tried to dance on it ! Two children started to laugh isterically, like they had seen the funniest of the cartoons on TV. One guy stopping his car at red light beside mine, even asked what was the name of this record and admitted he was very curious about this music because he had never heard anything like that. The only reaction I didn't see is INDIFFERENCE : seems like it is very hard to remain immune from this sonic fury, so eventually will always cause some kind of reaction (good or bad, but anyway a vital response). I incite you to try yourself this experiment (suggested tracks Nos 3 and 6), and let us know if the reactions change depending on what part of the world you're driving through. (I hope that nobody of you gets beaten by some angry victim cavy). Good luck MAX from Italy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 04:16:22 +0100 From: Russell Whitworth Subject: ET T-shirts I promised to get back and comment on the quality of "The Amazing Interactive T-Shirt Company" Elephant Talk T-shirt. Apologies that it has taken me so long; I was unexpectedly sent overseas on business and didn't get a chance to follow up sooner. (This message is from the 1st class cabin of a BA flight somewhere over Iran at the moment -- it's a long story that has nothing to do with ET -- but suffice it to say that I didn't pay for a 1st class ticket ;-) Is this the most exotic posting to ET to date? I digress... My T-shirt arrived very promptly, and I'm very pleased with it. It's just a Netscape screen-dump on the front, and an email address on the back... which is very effective and very identifiable as the ET page! It seems pretty durable, having survived the vigorous attack of a Delhi laundry (most of my underwear wasn't so lucky, and is now in shreds). Sorry, just showing off again ;-) I hope there are some more KC-related gigs in the not-too-distant future so that I can instantly be recognised by the rest of you ET-ers. Anyway, once again I recommend you visit the Amazing site at http://www.clearsite.com/shirts/samples, and judge for yourself. (No commercial association, just a satisfied customer, etc, etc) Now, where's that nice man with the Johnny Walker Blue Label gone?... -- Russell Whitworth ==================================================================== Internet: russell at anchorag dot demon dot co dot uk Amateur Radio: GM4CTP@GB7EIY ==================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:25:13 -0400 From: Obez at aol dot com Subject: TV spots. Good Morning, Good Afternoon, or Good Evening. I was just wondering if anyone out there has ever seen or heard of a :30 television commercial presumably sponsored by Atlantic Records for the album Starless and Bible Black. My friend remembers seeing it in 1974. If anyone has a video tape of it I would love to have a dub. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 07:38:21 +0200 (METDST) From: mlozei at spin dot it (Maurizio Lozei) Subject: lyrics of the third star Hello from Triest, Matt C. on et#305 ask for the translation of the lyrics ok the Trey Gunn "Third Star". Here follows the italian lyrics + the english version. I've tried to do the best i can. So please excuse me for my little english. Only a request fokr Mr. Fripp. I'm a crimhead since 1970. I appreciate the efforts of the group in this new line-up. Also the hard leap of "Thrakattack". For the future i humbly suggest to re-evoke some splendid, epic, great flash of armony and melody in the wake of the production of the period 1969-1971. In few words it's lovely to conceive "Prince Rupert" that goes in battle against the "Thrakattack monsters". Thanks for your attention. The Italian lyrics of "The third star". Words by Alice Bissi (that also s=ing) Penisole di sabbia si allungano sul mare tra le rose di roccia, dentro ai tuoi occhi cos=EC vicini cos=EC lontano vedo l'orizzonte blu come l'acqua e il cielo blu come il colore della tua anima=20 brucia l'aria che respiriamo si tinge di viola e copre questo piccolo mondo fatto di rappresentazioni inutili, inutili=20 la Terza Stella appare..... The translation Peninsulas of sand lenght on the sea between the rock roses, into your eyes so near so far i see the horizon blue as the water and the sky blue like the colour of your soul burn the air that we breathe coloured of violet and cover this little world made of useless, useless representations the Third Star appears...... Maurizio Lozei - Trieste -Mitteleuropa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:48:40 -0400 From: afn39111 at afn dot org Subject: New Crimso bands Now I won't say I'm disappointed in the Double Trio. I'm disappointed in the number of studio albums by the Double Trio, but the band sounds interesting. But if I had to suggest alternatives, how's this? I liked the RFSQ a whole lot. So how about the CGT, Trey Gunn, and Sylvian? Or--I know you don't NEED drums with Guitar Craft but--the CGT, Trey Gunn, and Bruford. Or Sylvian, Gunn, and Bruford? Add Tony Levin, maybe. Or make Fripp work a bit: Fripp and Bruford. jeremy <*> "This house belongs to the Goddess." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:23:02 -0400 From: AuntyAnne at aol dot com Subject: Palmer-James plus Hi, I hope this isn't a FAQ, but this is my first time! Does anybody know anything about Palmer-James, the lyricist on a lot of the Larks..., Starless..and Red stuff. He never seems to be referred to in any of the Fripp writings - did they fall out?! Is he still doing any writing or whatever? Why does Wetton get criticised as a vocalist? IMO, he was the best. Was anyone privileged enough to see his show in London this May where he performed Easy Money, Book of Saturday and Starless - it bought a lump to the throat. Actually RF was there, wonder what he thought? Ciao Mike Bates, Yorkshire, UK ------------------------------ From: aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Scott Merritt/Adrian Belew News! Date: Sat, 14 Sep 96 18:23:46 EDT Canadian singer-songwriter Scott Merritt's first two albums have FINALLY made their way to compact disc. Both _Serious Interference_ and _Gravity Is Mutual_ are now available through Duke Street/MCA Records in Canada at the budget price of $12.99. Both albums are progressive-pop masterpieces. _Gravity_ is particularly notable for the presence of one Mr. Adrian Belew who performs on several tracks. The disc was produced by Roma Baran of Laurie Anderson fame. For more more information on this stellar talent, and some hilarious comments from him on Belew, please visit the INNERVIEWS music webzine where you'll find an in-depth interview with Merritt. It's at: http://www.carleton.ca/~aprasad/ (Netscape 2.0 enhanced) Anil Prasad aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:24:17 -0700 From: gondola at deltanet dot com (E.B.) Subject: Re: Crapola >Now whoever it was that mentioned that the Kronos Quartet should cover >Crimson...NO! F@#K NO!! Have you heard their version (read: >"destruction") of Hendrix' Purple Haze? While they are obviously very >well-practiced musicians, and maybe some of the few skilled enough to >recreate any of KC's unbelievably complex music, they are merely skilled, >NOT talented. They bring absolutely NO passion NONE to the music. They >raped Hendrix' beautiful music and deprived it of soul and vibrancy. It >sounds like a freekin' marching band -- stiff and suitable for suburban >get-togethers. A couple of minor points: 1) Sure, Kronos' "Purple Haze" doesn't have the fire of Hendrix' version, but I doubt that any OTHER classical ensemble could've done it any better. I think you're objecting to the IDEA more than Kronos' follow-through. You just don't think string quartets/classical musicians should try to play rock music. OK...fine, swell. But don't pin it on Kronos' individual shoulders -- they made a damn good try, at worst. 2) As for Crimson's "unbelievably complex" music, I have a feeling that King Crimson material would be a cakewalk compared to the highbrow modern-classical compositions Kronos usually plays. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:37:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Polyrhythms / record player I recently found a book called "Polyrhythms", and am wondering if any other videos/books/albums deal explicitly with polyrhythms. Any advice would be appreciated. I also just acquired a record player that doesn't seem to functioning correctly. If anyone is willing to give me some advice on this, I would be much appreciative. Sorry to take up the bandwidth... Yr. obt. and humble sert., Gideon Banner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 11:24:45 -0700 From: theslammer at worldnet dot att dot net Subject: Thrak/Beatles >>>> Thrak is not a Beatles imitation, but a tribute.Beatles fans should agree with me on the following - Dinosaur - vocals on chorus very Lennonish <<<< Also the bassline is VERY McCartney ------------------------------ Subject: Original Larks Tounges Band Date: Sun, 15 Sep 96 10:50:34 -0800 From: WOTAN >Does anyone know if DGM is going to put out an archival, live release from >the original Larks' band (John, Dave, Bill, Jamie and Fripp)? I think it >would be a real shame to deprive those of us who can't find boots from this >band of its music. I recently got a copy of "The Ulitmate Live Rarities" vol. 1 from CDNow on the net. (www.cdnow.com) Its supposed to be a Japanese import and it is a live recording with the Original Larks Tounges Band including Jamie Muir. Its interesting, very free form, and you can hear Muir thrashing about, however the sound quality is awful. It includes the following; 1. Book of Saturday 2. Inprovosation #1 3. Exiles 4. Easy Money 5. Improvisation #2 6. The Talking Drum 7. Larks Tounges In Aspic Pt. 2 8. 21st Century Schizoid Man It's listed as being recorded live in Portsmouth, UK December 15th 1972. It's interesting, but only if you can take the recording quality. While we're talking about requests, it shure would be great to have a compilation of Crimso performances on TV/Video. This is especially important to me since my kids recorded over my copy of the "Fridays" performance. (Yes, they still live) This being the only performance I'm aware of that Fripp not only smiles, but at one moment actually chuckles. It would sure be great to have good copies of the Larks Tounges Pt. 1 performance on The Old Grey Whistle Test (I think thats what it is), The Friday's performance, The Midnight Special show, and anything else thats out there I may not be aware of. If our friends at Possible Productions could offer that, you could count on me buying a copy. - Sez **************** Visit General Music 101 +===+ o +===+ at | | /|\ | | http://www.concentric.net/~selzler/ |~~~| Co-"=|~~~| |___| / \ |___| - The Road Goes on Forever - **************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:25:52 -0400 From: Stuff4Nick at aol dot com Subject: KC in XTC ET, Pat M. says he plays on an XTC album. IN Modern Drummer of nov. 95 he lists the album Oranges and Lemons as a good rep. of his drumming. nICK m ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 15:25:54 -0400 From: Stuff4Nick at aol dot com Subject: Stickwire? Somebody asked where the Stickwire news group went. I can't remember who. The list is alive. It is no longer available in the digest format. Only as individual letters sent out at one time ( don't remember the format name) contact: Listserv at Netcom dot com; in the body write "Subscribe Stickwire-L" nICK m ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 22:30:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: Solaris Guitar Trio in Baltimore The Solaris Guitar Trio will be performing at Orion Studios in Baltimore, Maryland on Saturday September 21st at 7:30pm. In addition to original material, they will most likely include some LoCG standards. Also appearing will be French TV (who appeared on the Italian tribute to Van Der Graaf Generator) and Cuneiform recording artists Rattlemouth. For further details, please point your web browser of choice to: http://prog.ari.net/prog/shows/showcase/ -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 17:47:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jeffrey S. Kamil" Subject: non et info:Dream Concert Sorry about the non crimson info but I thought that the elec. music fans on this list would be interested: Concert promoter is looking for input on how many people would be interested in attending an Electronic Music Conference with many giants from the electronic music industry performing. Among those potentially scheduled to appear are: Klaus Schulze Steve Roach Paul Haslinger Steve Jolliffe Mark Shrieve Loop Guru... and many others. The concert is tentatively being planned for the Fall of 1997 in the U.S. on the east coast. If you're interested please send smail and or email address to Jeff at harryhat at wco dot com. The more replies we get, the closer this will be to becoming a reality. All replies will be put on a mailing list and will be informed about any updated information. Thanks! ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->-> Jeffrey S. Kamil and Harry the Hat Productions harryhat at wco dot com 75121 dot 2760 at compuserve dot com http://www.wco.com/~harryhat/ <-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<-<- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 20:40:53 PST Subject: 73-74 Videos?? From: alstew at juno dot com (Al Stewart) Does anyone know where I can get a music video of the 1973-74 line up? Is anyone selling one or are they even available? I'm also looking for the music video from '82' called Live at Frejas. Please e-mail me back at: alstew at juno dot com Thanks, Al from Ct. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:00:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Szymon Wozniczka Subject: KC vs. Talking Heads Hello everybody !!! I have enjoyed reading ET only for the last 14 issues and since I finally caught up on that I decided to write a short posting myself. Thanks for all information about different threads connecting KC with other bands and musicians( e.g. XTC )and solo projects of KC members (I am really tempted to give a shot to the Trey Gunn's solo projects). I would like to add one myself. I was encouraged by some subtle references that appeared in the latest ET#306. I think that there is definite connection between KC and Talking Heads. 1) Personal - A. Belew and T. Levin were closely collaborating with TH, f.e. on "Remain in Light" 2) If you listen to A. Belew older solo stuff you may notice similarities to TH sound. I am really thrilled to hear that his new solo album is very good and weird again (after recording a couple of quite uneven and tamed CD's in the recent years). I guess this old TH fan got revitilized by playing with KC 3) General, incredible open-mindness and music creativity presented by both bands (led by a really strong leaders). Both were crucial to giving direction to the new, modern music in the 80's. KC as a interesting group of the 70's progressive rock, who was one of the few of those to successfully incorporate new sounds and sonic climate of the 80's. On the other hand, TH was a one of the few post-punk/new wave bands who proved, in a long term, to consist of some excellent, innovative and creative musicians. Needless to say, my fascination with KC started from "Discipline" and with TH from "Remain in Light". 4) Both bands present definite fascination with rhythms that have their origin in Africa & S. America. This influence was especially strong and obvious in THs' music but both of the groups incorporated it in their music successfully, without loosing their own identity and limiting creativity. Are there any KC fans who love THs' music as well? Let me know. If anybody wants to comment on that I would be more than happy to hear your opinion. You can also send me an e-mail on my private address: szwoz at pcpros dot net Szymon Wozniczka Wausau, WI P.S. Just a short comment about a new "Heads" song - ET#306 . As far as I know D. Byrne is not going to play with his old bandmates. In fact, he is suing them for using the part of the original band's name. I guess things got pretty cold out there. New band recorded the whole new album with a bunch of different singers. Check more details on that in the "Billboard" from 2 weeks ago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:57:41 -0400 From: Bert Rubini Organization: Hillsborough Community College Subject: Re: Michael Giles Edward: Regarding your question about M. Giles in ET #306. I'm sure you'll get lots of responses on this, but Giles played on an album shortly after he left KC, a collaboration with Ian McDonald who also played in early KC. The album is titled (naturally enough) "McDonald and Giles". It's pretty good, reminiscent IMO of the 1st two KC albums, and does feature some outstanding drum work by Giles (he's one of my favorites, too). The album WAS released on CD, I saw a copy once, but I have no idea if it's still in print. I had it on vinyl, and liked it OK, but I don't listen to it enough anymore to justify a purchase of the CD. Of course, Giles also played in the precursor to KC, "Giles, Giles and Fripp". This group put out one disc "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp" which I think is still in print on CD. I've never heard this, but I've heard mixed reviews about it. Some say it's great, some don't like it, but from what I've heard it's very different from KC. Hope this helps. see you, Bert R. ------------------------------ From: John Kaefer Subject: Another view of Kronos Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:55:18 -0400 (EDT) In response to Chris Palmer's attack on the Kronos Quartet, I'll say two words: wise up. This quartet is very talented and is recognized by all decent musicians as one of the premier chamber groups of our day. Even though they may have ruined Purple Haze, they may still be able to pull off some KC. (Crimson is more classically based than Hendrix) Give them a chance. And by the way Chris, I go to the Eastman School of Music, a conservatory and Tony Levin's alma mater. Does that make us snobs? Think before you write. John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:15:35 -0400 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Down in Front! & The Double Trio Format It has been said...... >I am surprised that Fripp and the rest of these stodgy ETers don't >understand that people respond and participate to music in a multitude of >ways. If an individual wants to sway to 'Red' while another wants to >quietly sit with their eyes closed . . well, thats what its all about. Yeah, but what if I want to sit quietly with my eyes OPEN? My point is, I want everybody to hang loose and have a good time, but i don't want to be forced to stand for two hours in order to see the band. Have fun, but not at my expense. Sit down! This reminds me of a story. My brothers were watching KC at the pier at 42nd st back in 83 or so, and some girl a few rows in front of them got up and started to dance. People started to shout "down in front!", but she just kept dancing. Finally, from behind my brothers an empty coke can came whirling out, bouncing off the back of the girl's head, whereupon she turned around, grimaced at the laughing crowd, and sat down. As for the double trio concept, I also have mentioned that I don't think they have nearly fulfilled its potential. But to hear a pretty damn good argument for the double trio, listen to the live "Indiscipline" on B'boom. I'm not crazy about B'Boom, but that tune totally kicks ass. I almost went to Hoarde just to see the look on the heathen's faces....... -Emory. ------------------------------ From: Bradley Stewart Cook Subject: The thrashing of Kronos Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:45:25 -0500 (CDT) In the last issue of ET the Kronos Quartet received a severe thrashing from I believe a Mr. Palmer. I must say first of all that I do not think that the way they covered a Hendrix song is probably not an accurate reflection of how they would cover any given Crimso song. Secondly I would say that I love the work they have done including their performances of stuff by Zorn, Elliot Sharp, Steve Reich, and Philip Glass. I also love their version of Purple Haze and am glad to hear something fresh over the same ole' lame ole' covers. (I have only heard the version on the album "Released:Unreleased") ANyway...why would you choose to use this forum to trash the way Kronos has done a Hendrix tune?? I am a big Kronos fan and I would love to hear their renditions of previously released Crimson or even some commisioned new pieces from Fripp or maybe Belew. Love and kisses, Brad bradcook at tamu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:40:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Kronos : Now whoever it was that mentioned that the Kronos Quartet should cover : Crimson...NO! F@#K NO!! Have you heard their version (read: : "destruction") of Hendrix' Purple Haze? While they are obviously very [snip] : NOT talented. They bring absolutely NO passion NONE to the music. They : raped Hendrix' beautiful music and deprived it of soul and vibrancy. It : sounds like a freekin' marching band -- stiff and suitable for suburban : get-togethers. I have to say I agree with this assessment. I wanted to puke the first time I heard their version of "Purple Haze". I'm no purist, but they bring nothing to the song. : I think NOT. It is my : mission in life to kill the members of The Kronos Quartet. Slowly. And : with blood. Much blood. Let me know if you need a hand! :) --Art Boston Ska home page: http://www.cybercom.net/~upsetter/ska/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:42:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Giles : Can anyone give me any information about Michael Giles, the drummer for KC : in the early days? I have found him on a couple of old Anthony Phillips : (ex-Genisis) albums over the years (only by mistake)and that's it. Is he : still active? Has he played or is he playing with anyone else? I once had an album by Jackson Heights (formed by Lee Jackson, post-Nice) that had Michael Giles on drums. It was OK, but I think I sold it. Nothing to compare with Giles' KC drumming. --Art Boston Ska home page: http://www.cybercom.net/~upsetter/ska/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:46:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Bent Boy, I'm just a fount of information today, ain't I? Anyway: : As anyone ever heard of a band called "Bentmen"? They're from Boston. They've been around for years but only perform sporadically. : : Their new (only?) video features an anonymus Adrian Belew playing wild : guitar and also Robert Fripp (only as an icon for the clip, as I believe he : does not play any musical instrument in this band (?)). I would be very surprised if Fripp played with them, but I wouldn't rule it out out-of-hand. Another guitarist who has performed with them in the past is Reeves Gabrels (currently on tour with Bowie). --Art Boston Ska home page: http://www.cybercom.net/~upsetter/ska/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:49:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Christie Subject: Separated at Birth? Anyone else out there notice the uncanny resemblance between Robert Fripp and George Will? Same sharply cut hair, same round glasses, same tight lipped, serious expression. Or maybe I just put too much bleach on the cornflakes last Sunday. Christie ------------------------------ From: David Maclennan Subject: The Third Star/Ghost Dance Date: 17 Sep 1996 10:07:15 +1300 Just got my latest bundle of goodies from PossProds, including the DGM sampler, Trey's new album "The Third Star" and Giles/Muir/Cunningham's "Ghost Dance". "The Third Star" is superb, a big improvement on "1000 Years". I'm sure all ETers will love this disc. Excellent playing, excellent production. The only bit I don't like is the Toyah vocal - I'm afraid I've never liked her singing. But that's only on one track. Full marks, too, for the beautiful cover - a good example of creative CD packaging, and infinitely preferable to yet another boring jewel case. "Ghost Dance" was a big surprise. I wasn't sure what to expect from this. With the presence of Muir and Giles, Crimsoid expectations were probably high, but it's quite unlike any KC, that's for sure. If you like interesting percussion mixed with electroacoustic elements, this is an album for you. I really like it. And "Sometimes God Hides"? Well, what can I say - the best value CD of the year, no contest! 73 minutes of some of the best music currently on release (or soon to be) for only three bucks! Sheesh, you can't lose. I can see all three albums getting a serious thrashing in the weeks ahead, along with my super new Can bootleg "Radio Waves". Cheers, David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:46:03 -0500 From: strawberry Organization: Rutgers University Subject: Fripp/Eno/Effects In Eric Tamm's book "Brian Eno: His Music and the Vertical Colour of Sound", he discusses Eno's studio tactics; specifically, his use of effects and synthesis. He refers to what is called in the book an "echo", and it's not referrng to the kind in an ambient cave. I know Eno often ran guitars and other intstruments through his synthesizers to "treat" the sound, but if this "echo" does what I assume it could do, then I deduce that it must be a pedal or effects processor of some sort, rather than a synthesizer treatment. My curiosity for this developed in a statement by Eno within the book that the sound of a distorted echo is different than the sound of an echoed distortion. I assume that a guitar utilizing a "distorted echo" would have two sounds: the first being clean and the second being an echo of the first, only distorted. This sounds something like Fripp's guitar solo in "Sailor's Tale" from ISLANDS. That is why I feel the "echo" must have been a pedal of one sort or another, rather than a "treatment" (unless Eno was secretly tinkering in the ISLANDS recording sessions). The question I am left with then is this: What ever became of the hypothetical "echo pedal"? Did it develop into the versatile delay pedal or did it find itself extinct? And one other question: I was told that ISLANDS was recorded live. Does this mean live in concert or 1 take/no overdubs/studio live? I find the latter hard to believe because there are overlapping vocals in "Ladies if the Road". I don't care if this is posted or not, but I would like a response or direction on where to find a response. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:15:14 -0400 From: KB305 at aol dot com Subject: The Double Trio: an observation- Including... I like the Double Trio. It is full of sound and fury. While I had some misgivings about Mr. Mastellato (for Christ's sake, from Mr. Mister? How could he be good? So does my prejudice show), my ears tell me that everything works. At first, I had trouble discerning the voices of the individuals in the mix, but after repeating listenings, and going back to other works of those same players, I soon learned to recognize each man's sound and contributions as I would recognize his speaking voice. And yet I agree that the 2x3 has not done all it can. Part of me is waiting for the complexity that could come from six different musicians working in and out of concert. As I say this I'm reminded of some of Fripp's aphorisms about the earliest KC rehearsals from the Discipline era about some players playing or phrasing together, some playing seperately, etc. When it's six players rather than four, how do those rules change? Part of the answer I think lies in the process. My understanding is that material for KC albums comes from song ideas written by Fripp and Belew, and then shaped in rehearsals and on the stage. It's no wonder that the sound we hear on the stage is so similar to the sound on the records. Another part lies in the dynamics of a group. I know that the Double Trio is Fripp's idea, but we will never know whether the idea was a justification of his desire to play with these personalities, or whether these personalities simply fit the music he envisioned all along. I would like to believe that picking the musicians for KC was and is very much a function of the personalities and musical sensibilites of the men in question, rather than of the instruments they play. Such an idea would answer in part why Fripp's collaborations have been so limited: he's just picky about who he plays with, and tends to play with those with those ideas his are akin to, as in Bowie, Sylvian, or Eno. But I suspect it will take a long time before the language and customs of those six men completely gel into the unit I envision. As for now, KC will probably still have to make records containing 'songs' and 'pieces', to have a framework from which to work. Thrak is an example of that framework that allows the most freedom; Red is one allowing the least. And to those who would rather have a smaller KC, based on what they have heard on CD or stage: I am constantly reminded of Fripp's oft-spoken references to those moments 'when music takes (him) into its confidence'. Such moments are often borne of improvisations (witness the Great Deceiver music, which speaks to the fact that improvisation was that group's stock-in-trade), but can sometimes be lifted straight from music in 'songs', in 'sets', i.e., more organized. I suspect that if during any given show there is some brief transcendent moment (in the ears of those on stage), then the rest of the show, while possibly filler or exercise, is simply another attempt to 'get the craft off of the ground', so to speak. This happened frequently with the Larks' Tongues band. This still happens with the Double Trio. I believe that these moments are and were the only reason Fripp still plays music. The sound and fury signifies much to me. Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:07:38 +0200 From: kriskras at knoware dot nl Subject: Undancable odd-time signatures? Hello, Somebody stated in a previous ET bulletin that it's hard to dance to 5/8 or 7/8 time signatures. In (folk)dance music from almost all over the world, the Balkan, Greece, Turkey, Scandinavia, India and lots of other places, odd-time signatures are very usual! 5/8, 7/8. 9/8, 11/8 and combinations of all, can be found in a lot of folk styles. Our western ears, programmed by the indoctrination of blunt discobeats aren't used to them (anymore). Which is, of course, a shame. Like Frank Zappa said: If you're a rock musician and you use anything else than 2/4 or 4/4, you're considered avantgarde! Trey Gunn's last album illustrates how groovy 7/8 can be! Thank you, Martijn Busink kriskras at knoware dot nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:37:03 -0600 From: claudia alarcon Organization: The University of Texas at Austin Subject: dancing & standing: an apology. I understand the frustration of people who want to sit through a fantastic and passionate performance, which may move some of us into getting up from our seats and_god forbid_ dance, therefore obstructing their view. But, as sombody pointed out, I paid the price for my ticket and I am also entitled to do as I see fit during the performance. In my opinion, the musicians ( including mr Fripp, I'm sure) would rather see a packed house of excited people sharing the passion of their performance than a bunch of pretentious pseudo musicologists analyzing chord progressions. I may be wrong, but that's the impression I get, especially from Mr Belew. Also, I have the amazing power of being able to watch the musician's performance while standing up and/or dancing. I'm sorry if I've obstructed people's view at shows before, but , honestly and truly, I cannot help it. You may call it" Latina blood", I call it powerful music and sensuality. Cannot help it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 21:59:27 -0400 (EDT) From: JPRICE at TrentU dot ca Subject: ToaPP CD, trade? Hello ETers, I picked up a copy of "Three of a Perfect Pair", the original Warner Bros. CD, -not- the Definitive Edition, at the local used store the other day. I figured some Crimhead might want to have "Sleepless" as it first appeared on vinyl, but on CD. I'd trade for anything interesting, maybe an "album cover shirt" or a THRAK hat...? E-mail me if interested. J. P. Co-FAQ guy jprice at trentu dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:00:44 -0400 (EDT) From: JPRICE at TrentU dot ca Subject: FAQ help thanks! Hello ETalkers, I've been working on the FAQ and as promised, I'd like to thank Thomas J. Mathews for sending me the quote regarding the Marine 475 "lyrics" from the THRAK tour book. A great help! Look for the new version of the FAQ fairly soon. Terry and I hope to keep it growing and improving. J. P. Hovercraft Co-FAQ guy Rosewood Stick #826 "aLSO THRaK ZaRaTHUSTRa" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:12:36 -0400 (EDT) From: FISHBOY Subject: The King Crimson Drinking Game Hello, A few weeks ago I met another Crimson fan on my college campus. So of course we got together and swapped tapes and CDs. Anyway, this guy had stuff I'd been waiting to see for a long time - the '82 and '84 Crimson concert videos. He also had the '95 Japan show which is set to be officially released by DGM (he had a boot of a broadcast on Japanese TV). So I borrowed those and another Crimson friend and I watched them over the next few nights in our dorm. Then last Friday we came up with a great idea - the King Crimson drinking game! If you have any of these videos, you can try this at home. It goes like this: ***** THE KING CRIMSON DRINKING GAME ***** Drink any time one of the following things occurs: - You hear a sound and have no idea what instrument it originated from. - Fripp spins the knob on his soundscapes rig (we call this "the grinding wheel"). - There is a close-up of Trey Gunn flailing his arms furiously up and down his instrument, but no corresponding sound can be heard. - Fripp leans over from his stool to cue the end of a song. - Belew strums the guitar strings above the nut. - Bruford smiles. - Fripp plays a screeching noise above the 20th fret of the guitar (this value can be changed depending on how quickly you intend to imbibe). - Levin is holding, touching, or playing at least three different instruments simultaneously. That's all we came up with so far. Feel free to modify. Bye bye, Andy Acunzo aacunzo at ccmail dot sunysb dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:52:42 +0100 From: e dot mayall at ic dot ac dot uk Subject: The Great Deception Hello. I recently was forced to order the Great Deceiver from DGM as this was apparently the only way I could persuade them to send me the Sometimes God Hides sampler now that the deadline for its European availability has expired. Besides which, I was kind of interested in hearing tGD. Since I received the box set, I have been giving it limited listens since then - it doesn't seem to go down too well with the family. It has to be said that while I find much of the music very satisfying, I have to confess to being totally bemused by disk three. And even more bemused that there has (as far as I recall) been no comment about this in Elephant Talk. I realise that the KC line-up at that time was extremely innovative and influential, but I cannot understand why does Wetton's voice sound so much better on this disk than elsewhere, when the music is so much worse. And also: how some ten years after the material on this disk was recorded was it all covered totally verbatim by a band called Spandau Ballet? Yes that's right: I was sent a mis-pressing. I am now willing to accept offers of upwards of five hundred pounds from anyone who wants a copy of Spandau Ballet's Greatest Hits (sic) heavily disguised as volume three of tGD. I am also willing to recommend a good shrink.... I can't help wondering whether the reciprocal also happened and somewhere out there is some sad git who was looking forward to immersing himself in "classy" middle class white "soul" such as Gold and True only to have his ears assaulted by Bartley Butsford and Daniel Dust. That would be a face worth seeing. As for the sampler: there's certainly lots there worthy of time and (almost certainly) the extra money required to hear more. Do your best to get it. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Sep 96 09:31:38 EDT From: c62op27 at ibx dot com (Victor Fiorillo) Subject: KC Contraband I am interested in video/audio footage of KC '81 to '96 for trade. Also LoG and RFSQ. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #307 ********************************