Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #306 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 306 Friday, 13 September 1996 Today's Topics: DGM Sampler ET T-shirts THRAK is a Beatles tribute Marine 475 lyric/THRAK Tour book Larks' Quintet Trey's Not Lost.... In Defense of Red, Double Trio Kronos = Crapola On fire for the next tour Fripp Education Wanted Ten Seconds A third Summers/Fripp collaboration? Ruminations on the 6 player concept Adrian's Op Zop Too Wah Re: The Failure of the Double Trio Concept Michael Giles THRaKaTTaCK/double trio failure King Crimson Boxsets ET-ers from HOLLAND wanted... Sit Down and Listen Bentmen? Is Fripp a dance musician? The Third Star / Hello / Warr / etc Double Trio: Remarks and Proposal "Failure of Double-Trio"? Sitting Bullshit Double Trio - partially changed my opinon What's wrong with six pairs of hands anyway? Fripp / Trey / Combo's / Pat's Drum / Vernon dancin Its not who you know, it's what you know Distinguishing Trey's Warr Re: Double Trio analysis Adrian "et al", Heads, quotes Mujician(Keith Tippett's Band) Bored with "Red" Sharing KC information A Voice In The Night "Third Star" lyrics translated London tips anyone? Re: Re: Failure of the Double Trio Concept Crimson Bootlegs / Trey Gunn Can Crimson Men Sing The Belew's / Five Fripp Faves THE MAN FROM DORSET COUNTY Double Trio ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Alex Moseley Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 13:37:40 +0100 (BST) Subject: DGM Sampler After the post from Neil in Canada, I'd just like to ask whether there is any way us Brits can lay our hands on a copy of the DGM sampler CD? Can it be ordered from Discipline in the UK or are Possible Prods the only ones issuing it at such an attractive price. And if the latter, are there any buddies state-side who would be happy to get a copy for me and other interested non-USA residents? Alex. *------------------------------ Alex Moseley, Computer Officer (Arts & Law), University of Leicester. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 09:49:14 -0400 From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: ET T-shirts For those of us in the states, we can now order Elephant Talk T-shirts from Mackey Special Tees, e-mail address: spcltees at pe dot net Cost is $15.00 delivered. Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 10:48:55 -0600 From: orbis at data dot net dot mx (Carlos Malvido) Subject: THRAK is a Beatles tribute this has not been accepted by crimson fans, as they think my statement means KC needs to copy the music of the old masters. Stealing Beatles music for publicity is something like the Oasis creeps are doing. Mr. Fripp is far beyond that. Thrak is not a Beatles imitation, but a tribute. Beatles fans should agree with me on the following - Farenheit. The solo guitar on the end - Dinosaur - vocals on chorus very Lennonish - Sex, sleep, etc - A McCarney vocal and musical structure - Walking on air - There is no way to deny this sounds like Lennon - People - If you remember the end of "I want you (she's so heavy)" you know what I'm aiming at. There is no shame on playing a Beatles tribute, this does not diminish the fantastic music heard on this album, which may be catalogued as the best album of the 90's (no shit, maybe Bowie and Eno's "outside" could match). ROBERTO FRIPP, I hope you can read this, I've been a Crimson fan since 1972, everybody else thinks I'm crazy. I'm convinced we're not! Carlos from Mexico (yes, yes, MEXICO; much more than the land of "burro-sombrero-amigo" we can also hear and play good music, and if you don't believe it, ask Mr. Adrian - the producer - Bellew) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 12:39:10 -0400 (EDT) From: JPRICE at TrentU dot ca Subject: Marine 475 lyric/THRAK Tour book Hello ET types, A few issues ago I asked someone to send me the Marine 475 quote from the THRAK Tour book. Someone did, thanks -very- much. However, as I returned to the file to get this kind soul's name in order to credit him/her for the help with the FAQ, the floppy containing the file crashed. So, the FAQ entry is done, but the name is missing. If you're reading this, and you sent me the quote, please write and I'll extend my thanks. J. P. Hovercraft Co-FAQ guy jprice at trentu dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 14:04:39 -0400 From: Emuguy5830 at aol dot com Subject: Larks' Quintet regards-- Does anyone know if DGM is going to put out an archival, live release from the original Larks' band (John, Dave, Bill, Jamie and Fripp)? I think it would be a real shame to deprive those of us who can't find boots from this band of its music. --Matt C ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 15:47:06 -0400 From: ASFSeattle at aol dot com Subject: Trey's Not Lost.... In ET#304 Andrew Harmon writes: >> I would have to say that Trey Gunn almost never cut through the mix in the three >> shows I have seen him play in the double trio, with exception of Eleph Talk and >> Vroom. I too had this feeling after listening to Thrak for the first time and after seeing KC in June '95. He goes on to say,... >>My "theory" on this is that the house soundmen (assuming they don't bring their >>own) see the poor, misunderstood guy hammering away on his Warr and say, >>"Oh sweet mother of God!! He's going to peak out the entire system and blow up >>the place!" This theory, is a bit of a stretch. But in an effort to understand why we "can't" hear Trey, I can understand this stretch. I found that after listening intently to the Fripp/Sylvian collaboration (The First Day, Damage & couple of boots) as well as Trey's "1000 Years" that I was better able to understand what parts Trey is playing within the double trio. >>Maybe I can hear him and just think it's someone else. I believe this is case. A lot of what I was hearing was/is actually Trey on the Warr. There is so much sound coming at you in the double trio that it is very difficult to identify each part. Later in ET#304 Gordon Emory Anderson confirmed my opinion in describing Trey's "Third Star" release: >> And now I know why I often can't pick out Trey on a lot of KC stuff/gigs: even >>when he's wailing, there is still an inherent quietness to his playing, almost as if >>he's unaware of the possibility of using an instrument to "scream" at the listeners. I think that Trey really doubles as a second bassman & a third guitarist. Take some time to listen to his other work (even within Fripp/Sylvian I mistakenly credited Fripp for some of Trey's wicked soloing) and you will start to hear his contributions more clearly. They're there, just not familiar to many of us. P.S. I haven't purchased Trey's new disc but I'm sure it will further help to identify the significant contribution Trey makes to the current KC. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 15:34:03 -0700 From: Chris Mitchell Subject: In Defense of Red, Double Trio Hate to waste space with humble opinions, but I can't refrain from a couple of recent threds... The tune RED is not dead to these ears. It is a carefully structured piece of music that has moments of thick tension and incredible release. These moments work only because of how the tune is structured. Changing that or improvising on it would kill its magic. But it does allow for variation: note the B'BOOM version, with Tony's low dives and Trey's trills, not to mention the drum interplay. KC needn't play it at every show, but when they do, they should continue to play it as is. Secondly, am I the only one who is impressed with the double-trio??? I can't think of any band that is as progressive, as talented, or as tasteful. No, they haven't realized all of their potential yet, and there is a lack of new material, but I refuse to sit at a computer and chastise them for what they haven't done YET. The future is wide open, why talk about them like it's over??? I daresay this Crimson is the most mature, versatile, intelligent edition so far. (This is not a biased view - I also love the Starless quartet and tGD box.) Other minor points: --Fripp + any good musicians does not equal Crimson. Since about 1973, Bill Bruford has been as important to KC as Fripp himself. --Trey Gunn's contributions are right there; I've never had trouble distinguishing what he plays. BTW, Gunn does NOT play rhythm on WoA or One Time; he plays melodies on Stick. That's him in the left channel on Walking on Air. --Belew isn't exactly a weak link, but he does tend to overplay in the improvs, which is a SIN in a six-piece band. Lay out a bit, Ade. Anyhoo, I don't want to tread on anyone else's thoughts, but I find it difficult to look this gift Crimson in the mouth. After listening to the THRAK or B'BOOM albums, the last words that come to my mind are "Failed experiment." Chris M. univ of tenn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 15:31:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Palmer Subject: Kronos = Crapola Now whoever it was that mentioned that the Kronos Quartet should cover Crimson...NO! F@#K NO!! Have you heard their version (read: "destruction") of Hendrix' Purple Haze? While they are obviously very well-practiced musicians, and maybe some of the few skilled enough to recreate any of KC's unbeleivably complex music, they are merely skilled, NOT talented. They bring absolutely NO passion NONE to the music. They raped Hendrix' beautiful music and deprived it of soul and vibrancy. It sounds like a freekin' marching band -- stiff and suitable for suburban get-togethers. Now I don't think any of you ET'ers want to see this happen to the heartfelt and intense music of KC. A buncha conservatory snobs anal-izing the soul of the raging demon that is KC? I think NOT. It is my mission in life to kill the members of The Kronos Quartet. Slowly. And with blood. Much blood. :) Chris ------------------------------ From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: On fire for the next tour Date: Mon, 09 Sep 96 10:47:00 EST >gondola at deltanet dot com (E.B.) wrote: >I don't think anyone's mentioned one of the all-time classics: >Eno's "Baby's On Fire." Sure glad you mentioned it! My life long best friend, committed crimean (new usage) but computer illiterate (we all have a few yes?) recently proposed, no DEMANDED, that I inform KC (he suggested Adrian) that they should consider, no MUST DO, _Baby's on Fire_ for the next tour. Any objections? I'm now visualizing Fripp's strings bursting into flames and high flying sweat from Pat and Bill dousing the flames. smile, tj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 19:39:43 -0400 (EDT) From: mouser at ime dot net (RALPH JESSIE) Subject: (none) Hi All! Not to stray to far from the nature of this list, could anyone tell me where I can find a copy of David Sylvian's "Weatherbox" boxed set? I've been having a hard time trying to get a copy. Thanks... Ralph Jessie - mouser at ime dot net ------------------------------ From: "Heilbronner, Michael" Subject: Fripp Education Wanted Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 20:34:00 -0400 I recently obtained DGM's sampler cd, Sometimes God Hides, which includes five Robert Fripp solo tracks from as many albums. I enjoy most of the tracks, but, from a technical perspective, have no idea what I'm listening to. Would some beneficent and knowledgeable soul mind directing me to a FAQ or website, or emailing me privately about (i) the similarities and differences between Frippertronics, radiophonics, soundscapes and soundbites (if the latter three are technical terms or just titles of albums); and (ii) explaining when/how the tracks on Sometimes God Hides incorporate these techniques/styles and why the titles are used. I'd also appreciate any additional information that I would have requested if I weren't so ignorant about these matters. Recommendations on Fripp's solo material will also appreciated. Presently, I have nothing other than LCG and RFSQ. I don't like LoG and will eventually buy Damage but haven't gotten around to it. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: "Heilbronner, Michael" Subject: Ten Seconds Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 20:39:00 -0400 Following up on my first inquiry about the DGM sampler cd, I really enjoy the Ten Seconds track, "The Last Three Minutes." Is this song representative of the remainder of the album? Are there other instrumentals? Can their sound be compared fairly to any other bands? Does Ten Seconds tour? Once again, I'd greatly appreciate a private email about any of the above and other related information. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 00:11:10 -0400 From: MarkDAshby at aol dot com Subject: A third Summers/Fripp collaboration? Hey all, A friend of mine was wondering if there was any truth to a rumor he heard that there was once a third Summers/Fripp collaboration in the works that came after I Advanced Masked and Bewitched, whether it was ever released or not. Can somebody enlighten me on the subject? Much appreciation. -MDA ------------------------------ From: "STUDER, Andrew" Subject: Ruminations on the 6 player concept Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:40:18 +1000 Is 6 people too many? I was intruiged by this proposition from et303 so I thought I'd add a brief comment: 1) Many of Adrian's songs don't suit a 3x2 lineup, at least not in their current arrangement (this is not meant to knock the songs themselves). Why? Because 2) the band seems to be lumbering around in simple time signatures a lot. Now I'm only basing this assessment on the studio albums, and I know that there are exceptions, but to me only Pat and Bill are really playing with time that much. So what else could they do? 3) Think multitonal, and multirhythmic. I'd love to hear more arrangements (as opposed to jams) where the band play simultaneously in different keys and times. Fripp often improvises "around" the key of the tune (for example, he might play a solo which feels a minor third above the the original key), I'd love to hear the band as a unit do this. Similarly, why not have two bass groves happening in different times? I really like THRAK and VROOM, and I'll be interested to hear if the live albums make a liar out of me, but to me the band spends too much time sitting in one tonal centre, when they could be using the lineup to blend around different keys (which could generate some genuinely cool disharmony). In short, I think the lineup is great, I think the musicians are (obviously) right up there, but up to now the writing and arrangements (at least on the studio album) aren't maximising the potential of the group. For all that, they were still the best two new releases I've heard in the last few years. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:33:07 -0400 From: Otherroad at aol dot com Subject: Adrian's Op Zop Too Wah Well, Adrian Belew's new album, Op Zop Too Wah, should be hitting the streets on September 24. The folks at Caroline were kind enough to send me an advance copy. This is definitely one of Adrian's best. On this album more than any other you can hear the influences of Bowie/Byrne/Fripp/Zappa. Heavy emphasis on the latter. If any of you want a sneak preview, just come over to my site, The Artist Shop , and follow the link to the New Label Page. You'll find the cover graphic and soundbites there. Also for 'The Acoustic Adrian Belew.' And, of course, we also have the entire Discipline catalog. The soundbites for Trey's new album, 'The Third Star' are being downloaded quite regularly. I can't recommend this album enough. I especially love the title track with the haunting Italian vocals by Alice. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:21:53 -0400 From: Khosatral at aol dot com Subject: Re: The Failure of the Double Trio Concept In a message dated 96-09-08 03:03:43 EDT, MARK dot KEEN at roche dot com writes: <> This is insane. The double trio produces incredibly dense music. If you like "sparse" Crimson, great go listen. Do you think musicians with the RANGE of experience of Fripp, Belew, Bruford, Levin didn't know that six players would produce a thick, sometimes suffocating sound? Is it not possible this is exactly what they intend? Further, doesn't it seem likely that the challenge of playing with 5 other players drives the current KC incarnation? Besides, as the Trey Gunn interview a few issues back points out, there is every opportunity for the "mothership" to break off into different segments. This is the best of all possible worlds (Leibniz doesn't read ET.) This phase is very distinct and very complex. Don't think jazz combo, with lotsa space for solos, think avant garde orchestra. Listen to B'Boom and the originals back to back to HEAR the difference. You may still prefer the originals, which is perfectly valid. But to declare the double trio a failure goes too far and elevates personal preference to an aesthetic absolute. We know that Fripp says the music forms the band. Therefore, the next Crimson maybe a trio, a quartet--or an alumni outfit of 57. Any of these outcomes would not invalidate the work of the double trio. Kho ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:36:25 -0400 From: AMBRA Organization: Gateway Systems Corp Subject: Michael Giles Dear ET, Can anyone give me any information about Michael Giles, the drummer for KC in the early days? I have found him on a couple of old Anthony Phillips (ex-Genisis) albums over the years (only by mistake)and that's it. Is he still active? Has he played or is he playing with anyone else? I purchased the first KC album in 1969 when I was 13 years old (because I thought the cover was so cool, to be honest). I was a drummer at the time and instantly became awed, not only with the music I heard, but the with Michael Giles on drums. His contrbution to and integration with the music on those first few KC albums still amazes me after all these years. So, any help by anyone would be greatly appreciated. Just as I appreciate this news group. Thanks, Edward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 96 10:01:36 CDT From: "Michael R. Hobaugh" Subject: THRaKaTTaCK/double trio failure After reading the effusive reviews of the new live KC improv album THRaKaTTaCK I picked it up. I have to say that I have been disappointed -- not with the individual playing, but with the lack of communication between the members of the double trio in building a coherent group improvisation. Yes, the song is called THRAK and that suggests a certain amount of cacophony, but aside from a few moments of the disk, I find the improvs pretty aimless. Where am I coming from with this? Alot of jazz listening, earlier KC, my own playing... I think that this is another area in which there are just too many musicians trying to get a word in; i.e. I agree with many of the posters that thus far, the double trio has been a confusion of musical riches. For an example of group improvisation that succeeds marvelously, check out Miles Davis' Bitches Brew. In Miles' autobiography he says of the session that he let the tapes just roll and would whisper riffs in the musicians ears to set up a groove. Then while some were maintaining the groove, others would go off into their own thing. For group improv to work, there needs to be turn taking between musicians in the two roles of maintaining and straining the structure of the improv. When all the musicians are pushing the limits at once it sounds a bit much like warm ups before junior high band. I humbly submit to any flaming that I have incurred with my heresy. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 96 16:47:55 BST From: sbachini at uk dot mdis dot com (Steve Bachini) Subject: King Crimson Boxsets Hi Toby, Firstly, many thanks for the excellent web site. I've spent many a happy lunchtime in there. While there I couldn't find the answer to the following though: Is RF going to release further 4CD sets of live 69/70 and 80's lineups? I have The Great Deceiver and it one of my most prized possessions. He mentions more live sets in the booklet. Thanks and very best regards, Steve Bachini - sbachini at uk dot mdis dot com ------------------------------ Date: 10 Sep 96 11:26:04 EDT From: frits jurriens <100444 dot 3261 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: ET-ers from HOLLAND wanted... I would like to hear from Crimson enthousiast in the Netherlands. especially for trading. I'm still looking for the video's: The Noise ('82) and Live in Japan ('84) and the CD The Great deceiver. I'd like to hear from you by e-mail... thanx. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 13:56:31 -0700 From: Chris Mitchell Subject: Sit Down and Listen Why not stand or dance during a KC show? Hmmm, common courtesy to the folks behind you, perhaps. My personal enjoyment in seeing any show - Crimson, Dave Brubeck, John McLaughlin, the symphony, jazz clubs, anything - is to watch the musicians at work. Even if Crimson is seen by some as just a "rock" band...when I pay for a ticket, I intend to be able to hear and see every minute of the performance. I can (and do) dance to the records at home, talk while the disc is spinning, or play along on guitar. But at a live show, my attention is directed to the stage. Sorry, but I don't have to dance to enjoy what I came for. I'm of the opinion that dancers should be relegated to the BACK of the hall, so that those who want to (weird notion here) WATCH the band can see without obstruction. This is directly opposite to the usual concert scenario, where people up front make the whole audience have to stand by standing up themselves. anyway... Chris M. PS: Miles Davis fans - check out the latest boxset, Miles/Gil Evans Studio sessions. Very well done, great unreleased music. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:01:33 -0400 From: d dot gosselin at johnabbott dot qc dot ca (Daniel Gosselin) Subject: Bentmen? As anyone ever heard of a band called "Bentmen"? Their new (only?) video features an anonymus Adrian Belew playing wild guitar and also Robert Fripp (only as an icon for the clip, as I believe he does not play any musical instrument in this band (?)). Can anyone feed more info? Daniel Gosselin D=E9partement de fran=E7ais John Abbott College ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:49:35 +0200 (MES) From: Ulrich Von Hecker Subject: Is Fripp a dance musician? Josh Emery wrote in ET 305: >Why is it that when Fripp had a dance band, he couldn't get prople to dance - >though he did make every effort to book dance halls. This is an interesting question. I suggest that Fripp's music simply does not lend itself to dancing at all (though quite a few people did dance, at the Berlin gig in June). But how would you dance to music performed in 5/8 or 7/8 meters? Ok, he didn't use those when playing with the LoG, but even this music to me seems far away from any appeal to dance, in spite of Fripp's assertions. To me, one of the greatest mysteries in Fripp's and KC's music is that it always puts me in a position of distance and reflection vis a vis my bodily impulses while at the same time it has a very strong appeal to them. You simply can't let loose dancing because you're too concentrated on hearing. I believe this is because the music, unlike the TRUE dance music of the Giorgio Moroder disco sort, never submits to the purpose of sheer dancing and hilarity but always speaks entirely in its own right and for nothing else. Even the LoG, IMHO, does not play real dance music (why else would Fripp endlessly emphasize its dance character?? You don't emphasize something which is obvious) but they play some sort of twisted reflection on it, some ironic rendering of it, certainly a quite grotesque, complex, and/or destructive version of dance music. To point out the dance and party character, as RF does, unexpectedly, at the end of the Thrang, Thrang, Gozimbulx (track 13, time 10:40), in my view, is only one of his artful ways of teasing us with semiotic games. Ulrich von Hecker ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:38:25 -0400 From: Taylor Sherman Subject: The Third Star / Hello / Warr / etc I have to agree that TG's new album is one of the best of the year. Seriously. I fear that I like it too much, as the best albums I own took some warm-up time almost universally. Hmm. Someone mentioned that RF's influence on Trey is apparent, but has anyone noticed Bill's influence on Pat? The drum line on track #6 is incredible -- mostly a straight beat, but it's played perfectly, and it just *grooves* a la a Bruford 4/4. I don't hear this groove on earlier PM work (although Damage is still good stuff). At one point PM even does a BB trick - playing a few quick measures of what? 3/8? over a 4/4. Right over the measure lines, only to fall perfectly back into place. Can I ask if anyone out there knows what happened to StickWire? Please email me, not the list, but I haven't gotten a copy for like 6 months, and the mailer says I'm subscribed. I hope it's not dead!! Oh, and I must say, I LOVE the tone of TG's new Warr guitars. It's really too bad, as much as I love the Stick (R) and all Emmett has done to further the field, but the Warrs just sound sooo much better. TG uses the Stick (R) on track 4 only, and it sounds colder, less interesting. Now if only someone would tell me how much the Warrs cost! lots I'm guessing. Oh, um, I think this is my first post. Hello, my name is Taylor Sherman and I'm from Seattle and believe it or not my first KC experience was Thrak, which I thought was so-so, then I got the "Dinosaur" cd? the one with ET and Red on it. I knew, when I heard Red, and especially when I found out when that song was recorded, that KC was a very special band. One year, 4 concerts, and 20+ cd's later (hee hee), my friends are starting to get worried that I've become a cult member or something. Hmm. :) Taylor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:10:20 -0400 From: Throatspro at aol dot com Subject: Double Trio: Remarks and Proposal While I find the achievements of the Double Trio admirable on many levels, I also find it less progressive than was originally proposed. First of all, I feel that the Double Trio concept of percussion was better realized in the 1973 quintet, between Bill Bruford and Jamie Muir. As things are currently stacked between Bruford and Pat Mastelotto, the two drummers do not "harmonize" (ie., blend their individual voices) so much as seek openings in the rhythm left open by the other. I tend to either hear Bruford working less because of Mastelotto, or drumming around him--it's as though the second drummer exists primarily to pose as an obstacle, to test the rhythmic creativity and spontaneity of the first. It makes more sense to me to have the second percussionist dealing more in a broad range of accents than in a double dose of rhythm. What continues to niggle at me is that, no matter how much KC's music is reorganized or reinstrumented, there always seems to be less evolution of effect than overcomplication of sound. Admittedly, much of the pleasure of listening to King Crimson is admiring the discipline and virtuosity of its players, but if this is our focus, to what extent does the composition itself cease to exist? To this end, I find the THRaKaTTaK album an extremely telling release. I consider it the definitive Double Trio album because it throws all pretense of composition out the window, focusing exclusively on magic and chops. It's an amazing concoction, and I love following it, but must admit that it doesn't take me anywhere. In today's ET, a correspondent proposed that Mastelotto, Gunn and Fripp should show us what they can do together. A good idea, but since this has already been more or less achieved on David Sylvian's excellent DAMAGE CD, here's my suggestion: I'd like to hear different sections of the Double Trio play a series of variations on the same theme, helping the listener to attune himself to the individual players and their interaction, and then have them all come together in some kind of culminative performance on which the Double Trio concept would be fully delineated, and could either stand or fall. A consolidation of the various "parts" of "Larks Tongues in Aspic" might be a good idea, though I would frankly rather hear the Double Trio strut its stuff in a fresh composition written expressly for this purpose. Tim Lucas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:23:52 -0700 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Organization: EarthLight Productions Subject: "Failure of Double-Trio"? To start: MARK.KEEN wrote >I have decided to propose put the following idea to be discussed (among >yourselves) and debated (and I'm sure this will direct flaming in my >direction): The KC double trio concept failed in terms of positively >effecting the actual recordings and performances of KC. All six musicians >were dedicated, hardworking, talented performers who failed, by double trio >design, to bring together a cohesive, distinct sound to this "phase" of KC. >Clearly, all six could not be "heard" simultaneously in concert or in >recording. .. I propose that with the 90's "Thrak" KC the sum of the >parts was greater than any "whole" obtained by the group. Poisson Thomas responded with: >I have to agree with that. The only things truly original that came out of >this KC incarnation are Thrak and the related improvs, and a couple of >tunes such as Cage. I fear that large, democratic groups such as this >version of KC, allow themselves smaller spaces for innovation and risk >taking. The lack of direction in the current version of KC might be the >cause of Fripp's sometimes apparent disinterest with the group during >concerts (as reported in many reviews). Any three or four of the six >musicians in this double trio would probably raise more enthusiasm, >musically speaking, than the six of them. So let's hear what Gunn, >Mastelotto and Fripp can do... (just a suggestion) And my response to both: First off, I think it's overly analytic to judge the Double-Trio construct on the basis of so few showings, most of them with the same material. Similarly, comments like 'lack of direction' would perhaps be based on misassumptions like the following: 1. Robert Fripp seems disinterested in the band and its music, because he seems so passive and far from the spotlight on stage; 2. King Crimson is obligated to reproduce the sound of the studio, onstage; 3. King Crimson has the same mission and concepts behind it as it did all along; 4. King Crimson is a progressive art-rock band involved with the current attempt to remarket us the 1970s. ...all of which, I'm sure, are dead wrong, if not only because they're based on so little information. What does it come down to as far as us newsletter readers and faithful listeners are concerned? How about, "Do you enjoy it?" I find myself wanting to hear something new, also - though I'm grotesquely thankful that they're not releasing right now, since I'm broker than a dead stock market consultant. Where exactly did this concept of Double-Trio Failure start? I'd like to see more discussion - but especially ELABORATION - on WHY some folks believe it to have failed. Or is it time for me to repost my mini-monograph on The Nature of Celebrity? Cheers! Stephen Goodman EarthLight Studios ------------------------------ From: Tom Keekley Subject: Sitting Bullshit Date: Tue, 10 Sep 96 16:39:27 -0500 Hello All: Another ETer wrote this recently: > though he did make every effort to book dance halls. My understanding is, > if you buy a ticket for a seat - you are supposed to sit during the > performance. I took my 11 year old son to a KC show. It's a challenge for All I can say is that I feel VERY strongly that not only may I sit in that seat but also stand to stretch, sway, dance or whatever. I am surprised that Fripp and the rest of these stodgy ETers don't understand that people respond and participate to music in a multitude of ways. If an individual wants to sway to 'Red' while another wants to quietly sit with their eyes closed . . well, thats what its all about. Unfortunately for the previously mentioned, music, ESPECIALLY LIVE music, is not a one-way street. It DEMANDS interaction from the receiver! Why else bother to communicate at all. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:34:32 -0700 From: "J.P.Lewis" Subject: Double Trio - partially changed my opinon After reading several negative posts in the last ET (including one from me), I feel that we're being a bit too close-minded about this subject -- it was/is an interesting experiment, with mixed results, but it is possible that the potential of the double trio will be realized in a future album. I still want to hear more of Fripp though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:45:01 -0700 From: Manir Donaghue Organization: Donaghue & Co Subject: What's wrong with six pairs of hands anyway? First post, so apologies in advance for any breaches of etiquette! I was fortunate enough to see KC at the first double trio gig back in 1995 at the royal albert hall and have since been to brixton academy, as well as having the Japanese slightly-less-than-legitimate video. I can't for the life of me see what the problem is with the double trio both in theory and practice. Yes there is a blurring of who does what on the stringed instruments, but I for one am more interested in what comes out rather than who was responsible for it. I also agree with the idea that it could be early days for the unit in terms of composition, arrangement and eventual performance, depending of course on its stability. Give it time... Also, I find the criticism of Belew to be amazing. Firstly, the man has produced consistently excellent work, inside and outside Crimson for at least the last 16 years, which is appreciably more than can be said for ANY other KC vocalist, secondly I find his lyrical ability to be a vast improvement on the pomposities of Sinfield and Palmer James, thirdly as a guitar player his style may not be everyone's cup of tea but his ability and pedigree is exemplary, and finally, as a conduit between band and audience his presence is almost essential - maybe not for "hardcore" fans (whatever that means), but certainly for anyone who attends a concert and expects some form of communication between band and audience. All in my opinion, of course. Manir K Donaghue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:28:45 -0400 (EDT) From: dumela at nicom dot com (tj) Subject: Fripp / Trey / Combo's / Pat's Drum / Vernon >The lack of direction in the current version of KC might be the >cause of Fripp's sometimes apparent disinterest with the group during >concerts (as reported in many reviews). From the vantage point of the 1st row on 25/8/96 show I saw Fripp being attentive to every moment showing much interest in all five of his fellow musicians. He was listening keenly. I'm very glad he's willing to bring his work outside of KC (soundscapes) into the KC fracas. This is something of a test for some of the audience members who are unawares. >You may not be able to pick out what he's [Trey] doing all the >time, but if he were gone, I guarantee you'd know it--and sorely >miss it--immediately. Someone also mentioned that knowing the specifics doesn't matter. I like knowing but mostly the assault is just so massive with all six that for me I like them all together whether I know all the details or no. On this last tour we did eventually get at least four different combos on the stage: Pat/Bill, Pat/Robert/Bill, Bill/Tony, Adrian/Bill/Pat. So I think they have been trying different parts of the whole six and hopefully this can continue to mature. I think a Trey/Pat/Robert would be nice. I haven't noticed anyone mention the design on the face of Pat's bass drum. It was in near complete darkness but let me try to describe it: It did just say CRIMSON but the 'R' had a circle around it (like the copyright), the 'I' had the diacritical two dots over it, and the 'O' used the diacritical half circle over it. Anyone care to try interpreting this? Also of note was that Vernon Reid thanked KC for letting them in on their tour and he also mentioned he spent many hours sitting on the other side of the stage (implying he's one of us). ps. Would a gig reviewer for the Ventura show like to delurk? tj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 20:33:28 -0400 (EDT) From: dumela at nicom dot com (tj) Subject: dancin > WHY DON'T MORE PEOPLE DANCE OR AT LEAST STAND FOR SOME SONGS!!!!??????) > I would love to dance. Politness keeps me down. I torture my chair. tj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:35:15 -0400 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Its not who you know, it's what you know >Date: 05 Sep 96 19:16:56 EDT >From: Trey Gunn <74744 dot 443 at CompuServe dot COM> >Subject: the first day vinyl > >does anyone out there have, or know where i might find a vinyl copy of >Sylvian/Fripp's "The First Day"? Was I the only one humorously surprised by this post (not at Trey's expense mind you)? You'd think a close relationship with a certain guitarist we all know would have its perks, like "Robert, be a pal and give me one of those rare pressings of 'The First Day' that I'm sure you have a few of lying around the house". Wasn't it also supposed to be true that touring was all glam and excitement? Between Trey, Tony and Robert's writings/diaries, its been one killed myth after another. Don't mind my amused musings. Carry on... Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:43:06 +0000 From: Robert Clark Subject: Distinguishing Trey's Warr Trey's Warr guitar may be hard to "distinguish" first because of the fact that it uses regular guitar pickups (Bartolinis, I believe), and second because Trey tends to do a lot of "strumming" on the melody stings and very little tapping in the new pieces or in the new arrangements of the older material. He also seems to use a lot of tube distortion and slap echo, which tend to make his tone blend into and reinforce RF's at times. The sound is reminiscent of RF's Les Paul Custom + fuzz tone circa 1974. It's useless to try to compare the Warr to the Stick - there is no tonal relation at all between the Warr Guitar and the Chapman Stick - the Warr was designed specifically to mimick a conventional guitar, giving Stick players an alternative type of tone. Frankly, I think the Warr guitar is a boat anchor; it has very little personality of its own when compared to Emmett's instruments. It looks better than the Stick, but it has the tonal personality and presence of a rice cake. Frankly, Trey would be much better off just using a Les Paul and a Big Muff -he seems to have gone to an awful lot of trouble to get that type of sound from the Warr. One thought I had on this issue is that the Warr seems to function as an additional "noisemaker" in the really ballsy arrangements - if nothing else, it's capable of a big fat sound. Much of what Trey seems to be playing doubles RF's rhythm parts or reinforces TLs fuzz bass. In arpeggiated passages, I noticed repeatedly that instead of tapping out the melody line, Trey was usually furiously strumming away. This makes perfect sense from the standpoint of arranging - Trey's technique is flawless, thus he is able to use the Warr (or the Stick for that matter) like a really overdriven keyboard (ala David Cross). Result: bigger, richer, ballsier arrangements. Say what you want about the double trio concept: this is the best "sounding" KC ever, even though it certainly isn't the flashiest. It seems to me that Trey's parts are the glue that hold the entire KC structure together, and thus my big objection to the use of the Warr. As a Stick player myself, I can't help but feel that the same parts played on either a Grand or Baritone Stick would be so much more effective. The Stick simply sounds better and punches through so much more clearly. I was frankly shocked when I first learned that Trey had switched instruments - the Stick community is painfully aware of all the unspeakable badmouthing Warr has done about Emmett and the Stick - could there be something political going on here behind the scenes? Of course, the acid test is every time TL plays Stick. I blind man can immediately recognize it, being unlike any other sound in the KC tone palatte. Further, the Stick/Warr duet prior to ET really underscore's the Warr's tonal deficiencies. It's a joke... Trey, come back home! Shitcan the Warr and come back to the real thing! There are imitators, but there is only one true tap instrument. Long live Emmett and the Stick! Robert Clark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:41:39 +0000 From: khoffman at giantfood dot com (Kurt Hoffman) Subject: Re: Double Trio analysis Two (or more) cents on the concept double trio; 1) The idea that, at any point at all in any song, you have six musicians playing in what can arguably be described as a "rock" band that are capable of maintaining two different time signatures within the given song is in and of itself proof that there is a valid reason to at least try the concept double trio. 2) The idea that they make the occurance of this double time signature appear discretely (as opposed to a blatant bashing over the head with it, say a 3/4 and a 7/8 at the same time!) enough that people with untrained ears (no slight intended to anyone, just a reference to the fact that musicians often listen differently than non-musicians do) are not repulsed in horror at the cacophony that such mutated time usage should cause is a testament to the concept that the double trio is successful. 3) The idea that, in a larger ensemble setting (which six in a "rock" band begins to take on the trappings of) it is difficult to distinguish between two different players on the same instrument (or similar instruments in terms of sonic frequencies and dynamic approaches) should not be in and of itself disconcerting. The amazing thing is that there are times where you CAN clearly seperate who from who (try doing that in an orchestral environment). 4) The idea that the concept double trio tends to get lost in the more "pop" oriented songs and tends to shine in the more open or improvisational spaces only stands to reason- "pop" songs are by their nature vehicles of the composer(s) predefined ideas as to structure and melody (and though the double trio can be used to compliment (much as a lush orchestral arrangement was often used to "beef-up" songs by, say Sarah Vaughn for example, this effect tends to be at best an acquired taste and ultimately seems to lessen the impact of the song); improvs are by their nature the antithesis of this. 5) The fact that I enjoy the older (horns and/or violins) versions of KC more than the double trio is rooted in two areas; first that I happen to like (and miss) the sonics of the horns a/o violins and the tensions and releases that they caused within the music (my gawd how Mel and David could handle tension and release!) and find repeated instrumentation ultimately more redundant than rewarding, and second that I find the current line-up's approach to the more "pop" oriented material less to my particular taste than some of the other lineups'. 6) When you consider that, with the exception of the duplicity of the bass player (which is admirably handled by the variations of electric bass, warr guitar, chapman stick and could be- if it isn't already- also augmented by upright bass or electric fretless) a "double trio" structure has been (and this is a loose stretching of the concept where I take the idea that duplicity of any two of the instruments plus two additional players can be deemed a double trio) previously employed in a "rock" environment by The Grateful Dead and The Allman Brothers Band, and you consider the end results that each achieved (a strange amalgam of space and folk or extended blues with polyrythmetic backing respectively- and yes, I know that is an over-simplification and potentially insulting generalization but I add it to illustrate just how far of a disparity there is between the potentials and the achievements of those bands and the current KC) I feel that the achievemnts of the KC double trio have done more to go beyond the potentials and limits of this arrangement than any other band who has tried a similar set-up. All that being said, I do feel that the current KC has ultimately failed to FULLY realize the potentials of their arrangement, in that there is room for improvement, but, hell, it ain't over till the six fat ladies sing. So to say that they have failed when I see achievement and potential for improvement is at best premature. Sorry for the long thread. Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:44:03 -0500 From: "John R. Nash" Subject: Adrian "et al", Heads, quotes With regards to Adrian's playing on other albums: between Adrian and TLev, you could seemingly fill a room with CD's. These guys must have a serious "Studio Tan." :-) Right before Belew hit the stage on the "Inner Revolution" tour, a tape was played over the PA made up of a medely of things that he's done over the years. It spanned a lot of music, and I think it surprised some people less familiar with his studio work ("you mean the guitar in 'Once in a Lifetime' is _him_?"). Adrian has succeeded in having a unique "sound" and also in having a reputation for spontaneous originality, so it's not surprising that his friends in the music business like to use him as an ingredient from time to time. Hmmm... playing on the radio now is a new song by the "Heads," who are apparently using different vocalists (a la Alan Parsons Project) to replace David Byrne on their new album. Since I haven't heard about it, I'll assume Adrian is not on the album (he's busy enough these days!). I wonder if he was asked -- I think it would be very fitting for him to do vocals & gtr on a Heads song after all these years... Some random (paraphrased off the top of my head) quotes that relate to ET #305: Trent Reznor: "Adrian Belew is the most talented f***ing musician on the planet." (from a poster advertising the "Here" tour) Adrian on not joining the Chili Peppers: "If you saw me wearing only a sock, you'd understand why." Parting shot by me: Crimso is now in a position of having pulled of a successful return, and seems to be very happy as a band. Between the writing and recording of "Thrak", the group has been playing together a lot longer than they were leading up to the release. Look for "Album #2" from the band to be both more comfortable and more daring. I also believe that those wanting more exploration of the Double Trio will be rewarded -- it was only an infant on "Thrak", but is fast reaching adolescence. When it hits maturity (and when it retires) is yet to be seen. Don't touch that CD remote... Personally, I'm franxious. -==-John R. Nash-==-Dept of Chemistry, UW-Madison-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:28:38 -0700 From: Pat Belanger Subject: Mujician(Keith Tippett's Band) Hello to all Great Deceivers!!! Can anyone tell me about MUJICIAN(Keith Tippett's Band). I believe they have 3 recordings available. Which one should I purchase? My musical tastes are adventurous so kick me in the ass with a killer! Thanks, JULIAN BELANGER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:12:28 +0000 From: Mara Salminen Subject: Bored with "Red" Hello everybody! Shame on you who complain about King Crimson playing "Red" always in a same way! I live in Helsinki, Finland. I have never had a chance to see the band live. So, next time you get bored, remember me. Mara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 96 12:04:28 From: bgebhart at cccr dot com Subject: Sharing KC information All this arguing about who is better, who we want to hear, blah blah blah... is ridiculous. ET could be put to better use by sharing information on KC and ALL of its past and present members. IMO every member of KC has contributed to its greatness, I'm sure everyone has their own opinions but who really cares what anyone else thinks! I, personnally, love every minute of every KC recording from 1969-1996. It's fine to voice an opinion, but to say any ONE is better than another? To addition, I do not know a lot about some of the members or about the hudreds of projects they have been involved with. I would like to learn more, and ET would be the perfect medium. Express your opinions, but don't harp on them. THRAKing in Chicago, Brian Gebhart bgebhart at cccr dot com P.S. If anyone knows how I could get a copy of McDonald & Giles that was released in 1970 please let me know. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:03:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Charity Dredge Subject: A Voice In The Night A special greeting to all of the female Eters out there. I had the treat of witnessing KC in KC. Kansas City, Kansas, that is. Although they were on the HORDE tour, which made the set far too short, they still freaked all of the midwestern, suburban hippies. I hail from just south of the Rosebud Sioux Indian Reservation, South Dakota. The exit march to my June 22nd '96 outdoor wedding was Matte Kudesai. The main reason the concert was so great (other than the fact that Fripp had no choice in whether or not he was seen in the broad daylight) was that I was in attendance with my husband and the two guitarists that played their accoustic guitars at our wedding. Following the concert Fripp thought he could slip through the hoard surrounding the booths unnoticed--except that my husband and I foiled him. We approached him quite discreetly and politely, but I think it would have almost been worth the humiliation just to see his reaction if I would of screamed "Fripp! Fripp!" and acted like a complete lunatic. I have to say that the entire band looks fabulous and are obviously in great physical condition. Their stage presence is amusing (especially Adrian and Bill). Although we are few and far between (and surrounded by complete rednecks) I'd like to also give special greeting to all of the KC fans in the Midwestern US. Thanks for the vacation, Crimson--it made it hard to go back to listening to CDs. Listen for my first and middle name in Starless, (which was recorded the year I was born--wow, the universe)- Charity Hope Senior, English, Creighton University Exhibit Facilitator, Western Heritage Museum Reporter, _The Creightonian_ ******************************************** * Creighton University Omaha, NE, USA * * #1 Midwestern US university * * -US News and World Report* ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 12 Sep 96 07:01 GMT From: TOLIN dot A at applelink dot apple dot com (Italy - CPU Prod. Marketing Mngr.) Subject: "Third Star" lyrics translated Hi all, I've done my best to translate the "Third Star" lyrics from italian. Anyway, I take no responsibility for it. It's just MY translation, not THE translation. The result has been also checked by an US guy working with me, so I hope & feel it is quite accurate. Of course this is plain translation, no metrics etc.... Ciao Andrea Italian *------------------------------------------ penisole, di sabbia si allungano sul mare tra le rose di roccia dentro i tuoi occhi cosi vicini, cosi lontani vedo l'orizzonte, blu come l'acqua al cielo, blu come il colore della tua anima --- Trey's solo ---- brucia, l'aria che respiriamo si tinge di viola e copre questo piccolo mondo fatto di rappresentazioni inutili la Terza Stella appare English *------------------------------------------ sandy peninsulas stretch out into the sea among rocky roses inside your eyes so close, so far I see the horizon, blue as water in the sky, blue as the color of your soul --- Trey's solo ---- the air we breathe is burning and turning purple and covers this little world made of useless representations the Third Star appears ------------------------------ Date: 12 Sep 96 01:52:36 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041 dot 247 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: London tips anyone? hi all, I'm planning to visit London soon (I'm from Germany) and need some ideas about where to go to find 1. cool CDs and 2. cool music hardware (instruments etc). Is there anyone from London who can help me? (Please don't respond to the list, but send private email) -M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:58:47 -0700 (PDT) From: dixon at unixg dot ubc dot ca (David G. Dixon) Subject: Re: Re: Failure of the Double Trio Concept I agree with Poisson Thomas. If one were to cleave the Double Trio along just about any axis, one would probably end up with more interesting results. I hate to beleaguer the point, but Polytown surely must stand as a kind of apotheosis of what is possible with a Single Trio of technologically informed musicians in the improvisational sense; far more interesting (and will withstand the test of time far better, I think) than KC's latest offerings Dave Dixon Vancouver, BC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:17:17 -0400 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Crimson Bootlegs / Trey Gunn Can any ETer's provide me with a list of available Crimson Bootlegs ? Ideally I'd like to know what period Crimson, where they were recorded, a track listing and some indication of sound quality. Please e-mail me privately with the list. I'd be especially interested in hearing from Eter's in the UK who have this information. I should add that this request is purely in the interest of research (honest). I'd like to say I agree with the comments already made about the Third Star. Great stuff indeed from Gunn and a nice move from 1000 years. Well done to all involved. Cheers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:17:13 -0400 From: sid smith <106050 dot 2211 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Can Crimson Men Sing The Belew's / Five Fripp Faves The recent flurry of debate around which version of Crimson is better than another ( or Belew vs. Wetton etc.) is of course totally dependant on our own prejudice's and taste. What we feel about Crimson's music is affected by other subjective factors such as where we were or who we were with when we first heard or saw a particular line up or album and so on. Yes, I know it's a bit obvious but there we are. This being the case, I'm not certain there's much point in engaging in slagging off Belew over another KC member past, present or indeed, future. Though the LTIA - Red period is my own personal favourite, Belew is perfect for this current line up and he brings a substantial and healthy influence upon the band and its music. It seems to me that King Crimson is a continuum which spans over 27 years, various line-ups which have been documented via official and innumerable unofficial album releases. Each album and line - up have their own value and merit, in which we can see and hear how particular musical themes, styles and preferences have evolved. However, I would argue that from this huge continuum it is possible to cite four albums which seem to encapsulate the principal factors which go to make up King Crimson. They are In The Court Of The Crimson King, Lark's Tongues In Aspic, Discipline and Vrooom. I'm not necessarily saying that these are the best albums or that they contain the best compositions. However, each one represents a starting point or new musical departure which exemplifies the basic musical vocabulary which subsequent line-ups refined, modified, developed and generally mucked about with. This being the case, I'd say the double trio have only just started to find their feet and that when they return to studio, we can expect a greater degree of experimentation with the format. By the way I'm listening this week to Lizard and Islands a lot this week. When it comes to the Fripp and Emotional playing thread, I'd have to say that I find Fripp's playing on these two albums to be nothing short of breathtaking. A quick five Fripp Faves, this week, would include 1. Book Of Saturday - superbly poignant 'reversed guitar' 2. Prince Rupert's Lament - mournful and evocative 3. Cirkus - a scratchy, spangly and down right angry acoustic outing 4. Exiles - a beautiful electric solo which for me contains hints of his playing circa ITCOTCK (and while where at it I'd count the gorgeous acoustic prelude) 5. The Sailors Tale - where the mustard is well truly cut and his frankly funky stuff is without doubt the subject of some high level strutting. Outside of Crimson, why hasn't anyone singled out The Heavenly Music Corporation as a Fripp high point ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:28:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Johnson Subject: THE MAN FROM DORSET COUNTY Recomended: listen to track 2 of Radiophonics if possible while reading this. RADIOPHONIC II and then read the liner notes. These thoughts were partly composed from reading and listening to that CD. It was Sunday August the 27, 1996 and my friend and I arrived at Merriweather and got to our seats and by surprise we were right behind the lightboard slightly to the left as you are looking at the stage. I could see plainly in front of the light board the sound board with the DAT player playing some heavenly soundscapes. We were taking in the scene a few minutes before Masque came on and my friend tapped me on the side and pointed to our right and there he was! The man from Dorset County. Sitting with the light crew only about 2 or 3 yards from me once again. I say once again because on Tuesday March the 15, 1983 I happened to be in the Men's room at Georgetown University where he was there giving a "Lecture & Demonstration". Its strange how I've never seen one post about that event. I'm sure quite a few readers in the Washington DC area were there. Anyhow my first natural primitive reaction was to get up and go over and figure out something to say. I'm terrible at meeting my "idols". Whenever this type of situation happens I get awfully nervous and can't deal with it. At the lecture when I was in the Men's restroom I could have said anything I wanted to him while he was washing his hands but all I could mumble out was "Good Evening Mr...." in which he politely replied "Good Evening". So there he is in front of me in 1996. I don't really get too excited about meeting my favourite celebrities these days. Theres too many other things to worry about than that. But still I'm sitting there watching him on and off. He clearly was there to checkout Masque and was eyeing the stage closlely, applying Audience Craft. Something I think everyone in the world could practice more than they realize. I soon decided live and let live and let go of all those rehashed primitive feelings about talking/meeting him. My friend who's in a band and is working on his "record deal" and me who's not in a band but I'm a working musician whois looking for my "deal" started chatting about if we had our demo cd's with us..........yeah right. Anyhow it soon was showtime and Masque came and did their thing. I thought they were really good. At least with the variety of musicians on stage and the rapper guy sitting in the easy chair. Nice concept. Every once in a while I would glance over at "him" to see how he was doing. He was really getting into it! Rocking back in forth. Grooving to it. I was impressed at the idea of being at a show with a favourite inspiration whether he was someone I knew or not. And then 2 guys came up from somewhere and realized who it was and took some empty seats behind him. And then I figured "well that's it. They're going to scare him away". A couple of minutes later I glanced over. He was still there getting into it and the 2 hoverbeasts got up and left. There were lots of moments when I forgot he was there. The last time I glanced over he looked at his watch and got up and drifted into the night outside to emerge at his place on stage with KC. A few days later I was reflecting on the evening and all. Whether he intentionally goes out to the audience or not as an attempt to connect with the audience is anyone's guess. However, to be at that concert and enjoy part of it with the man from Dorset County was a great priviledge. After reviewing what I wrote here it sounds a little goofy. I hope that with soundscapes playing in the backround it will enhance it. Jon Johnson Musician Damascus, Maryland, USA http://www2.ari.net/home3/jonny-j/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 18:16:43 CET From: Marcin Gokieli Subject: Double Trio Hello, It's a very inetresting discussion we entered. I do have to agree that the "double trio" concept hasn't reached its full poten tial. I do thing that "LBREUK" (you know, the one that is supposed to be releas ed in 1998 :-) ) will bring some more double trio inventions in the harmonical area that we all want . But it seems strange to me that nobody remaked the SOUND effect of the double trio. KC is not a jazz band where everything (nearly) is based on harmonical in ventiveness. Their music is often based on repetition, and sounds. Pieces like red, VROOOM, etc. are not only based on harmony, the SYNTH sounds have a very i mportant place in KC music. REmember that in considering if Trey is necessery in the band or not. And also, on 'codas' , there are some harmonicaly complicated chord sequences that would be quite hard to achieve by only 4 musicians. In my opinion that's what's new in the '90s Kc: the search of new synth sounds Keep on hunting for the snark, Marcin Gokieli marfrank at plearn dot edu dot pl ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #306 ********************************