E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 295 Tuesday, 6 August 1996 Today's Topics: Paul Motian, Ryuichi Sakamoto Review: The Essential KC - Frame by frame Re: 21CSM, THRaKaTTaK, LP's... THRAK is NOT a waltz 2 Questions: MAX ROACH & 1st Engineer. Early Crimso Film Anyone know Johnny Warman? The New Standard Tuning at the Olympics Re: Reid In The W.C. King Crimson/Grateful dead comparison Re:Mat Cameron Mellotron Unexpected KC appearance Olympic sighting Re: Schizoid Men KC on film CGT on TV Europa String Choir Announcement The Beloved-"X"(FRIPP plays soundscapes) The Third Star The ostreperous Oswald Sound (BERKELEY So what? Help with record stores needed tickets for asbury park Review: Sometimes God Hides - The young persons'guide to KC Re: THRaKaTTaKed my KLipSChOrNS pT-II cents Review: Starless banner (live bootleg) Crimson rip-off at local coffeehouse Re:KC/The Muse/RF's Stillness/Gold CD's/Bandwidth Re: Zero Tolerance For Silence Boot-broken-leg Wanted: Tickets for Philly (Mann) Sorry, more music questions... *** GIG REVIEWS *** Review of the July 26 Berkeley Show My 2 cents worth of Crimson (7/27) Metropolitan theater, Mexico City, 2/8/96 GIG REVIEW: August 3, Mexico City King Crimson in Warsaw 7/6/96 and more GIG REVIEW: august 4, Mexico city ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Dan Kirkdorffer Fellow ETers, Once again I apologize for the huge ET that digest #294 was. Please don't all unsubscribe in droves. Don't forget its gig time and if you can restrain from posting that helps keep things a reasonable size - I don't like censoring ET or cutting posts out. Meanwhile Toby should be back from his vacation this week. I intend to continue to fill in for him until he tells me he's ready to take over once again. If that happens before the next digest comes out I'd just like to say that this was fun. Thanks to all ETers for making it easier by avoiding off limit subjects and keeping ET full of interesting reading. Cheers! Dan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:43:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Paul Motian, Ryuichi Sakamoto I need a little advice on matters of buying music, thought the educated listeners of this list might be able to help me out: Which Paul Motian Trio/Quartet album should I start with? Should I bother buying a Ryuichi Sakamoto album? Which one? (And I noticed the names of two tracks on one of his albums: "Nuages" and "Heartbeat" -- are these covers of the KC tunes?) Many thanks, Gideon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Heinisch at rsrz14 dot hrz dot Uni-Marburg dot DE Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:48:36 +0000 Subject: Review: The Essential KC - Frame by frame Review of `The Essential King Crimson: Frame by frame' Frame by frame Death by drowning In your, in your analysis. Step by step Doubt by numbers In your, in your analysis. "So what to expect of a collection of Crimso tracks which mostly have been featured and released in a (superficially complentated) similar way in the more or less recent past, was my very first thought after having read the tracklist of this 4-CD-Set. Well, it's quite too simple to put a label like "Deja vue" on the package and ignore it further, `cause it definitely isn't this way. In the (excellently made) booklet included in the set, which continues the story as told in `The young persons' guide to KC', Fripp explains that he put `Definitive Edition' or `Definitive Edition Enhanced' remastered versions of all of the tracks onto the shiny little babies. This presents us the uncritized offer to finally get those remastered editions (at a quite better sound quality) in one piece, as the 1989 remasters had been sold only (at that time) in America and Japan, omitting the Europeans (continent and British Isles); so I for my part simply got to know the slightly worse `normal' releases on CD (or just LP). Furthermore Fripp decided to `enhance' some of the older numbers by re-mixing them, "Bolero" e.g., which now features Tony Levin on bass for the first time, or "Cadence and cascade", with Ade Belew on vocals (my, what a fine copy of ol' Haskell he does!). Additionally RF and Tony Arnold, the tech wiz (for the Def Eds), and likewise David Singleton (for the Def Ed Enhanced) came up with some `abridged' variations of the longer crimso material stuff, which gives us an opportunity to exercise a little critique: IMHO they kind of shredded one or the other lovely tune ("Fracture"; "The sailor's tale") and didn't do a good thing on removing the intestines of my most favorite piece, "Starless", which now quite suits the car radio to play without sending your neighbour in a traffic jam to hell. On this one I'm really disappointed for it hasn't got an ending anymore! So I'm not too much enlightend by the attempt to squeeze the `essential parts' of the most essential tracks on CD - we'd have done better without them, I think. Now, except for the really nice KC-family tree, which of course ends in 1988 (it was drawn in 1989), we are at least granted with some mind-bursting stuff, which the most of us are sure to have never caught an ear of. I especially think of "Mars", a piece of pulsating rhythm bearing resemblance of "Merday morn" (out of "The devil's triangle") and the `USA' featured "Asbury park", I had no knowledge of up to the heavenly day I finally acquired this marvelous instrumental. "Get thy bearings" isn't quite the street sweeper I naively expected it to be, and it also has the worst sound quality of the whole compilation. Remarkable are furthermore the incredible "Schizoid man" version of 1973, the "Talking drum" (of the same year, but why does the CD & booklet read 29'04'' length?) and "Sartori in Tangier" (1984) of the last public performance of the eighties KC. A final note to the `89 Def Eds, the engineer who worked on the back catalogue, at that time missed out to add the `invisible track' (at the end of Islands), where Fripp talks to the band about repeating the played stuff for the last time before finishing. But now, we find it again - at the very end of CD No. 1! How could an evaluation of this whole giant dinosaur look alike? I guess, most people should consider buying it, except for those who don't care too much about superior sound quality, dug out treasures from the past or who simply have got enough bootlegs covering the whole range of multi-crimso-appearances of the last 27 or so years. Enjoy - I like it!" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Organization: University of Mining and Metallurgy From: swierk at student dot uci dot agh dot edu dot pl (Pawel Swirek) Subject: Re: 21CSM, THRaKaTTaK, LP's... Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:23:12 +0200 (MET DST) Hi, I try to reply to some letters : On Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:16:45 -0400 (EDT) JPRICE at TrentU dot ca worte : > For all who can't find the 21stCSM single locally, myself included, > I've ordered it from: > > http://www.cduniverse.com > > I'm not endorsing or advertising, > (heck, it hasn't even arrived yet, but I have recieved e-mail > confirmation that it has been shipped) just stating a fact. > As of last week, it was the only on-line CD store I'd found that > listed it as in stock. If anyone's interested, I'll post again when > it arrives. I'll -defenitely- post again re: this if there are any > problems. But it may be hard to transfer that EP to Center Europe's countries On 17 Jul 96 18:03:00 EST "Gilbert Kirk" wrote : > > >From: Christie > >Subject: 21CSM Single > > >Can anyone tell me where I can get my hands on the aforementioned CD > >single? It's making me crazy reading all the reviews posted and not be > >able to hear the dang thing. > > If you have telnet capability, a copy can be ordered from: > > telnet musicexpress.com > > for a mere $12.88 (US) plus $3.00 (US), shipping and handling. > Is there avaiable to handle it to Center Europe countries ? On Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:43:35 -0400 Salehouse at aol dot com wrote : > The Young Persons' Guide To King Crimson - 2LP set complete with photographic > insert, Island Records UK import, Excellent condition How much It cost ? You haven't included any price > > Pete Sinfield - Still - (original lyricist for King Crimson) - Manticore > Records UK import featuring former KC members Greg Lake, Mel Collins, Keith Tippet, John > Wetton, Boz, and others, name written on jacket, Very good condition High Bid is presently > $19.00 BY ACT126 CD version of this record is cheaper and have 2 extra tracks About THRaKaTTaK : I bought THRaKaTTaK a week ago. I Think that THRaKaTTaK is very good album, but only for true fans. Pseudofans and novices may think, that THRaKaTTaK is impossible to hear. I was in concert in Warsaw 07.06.96 and heard improvisation in middle section of THRAK. Here are more improvisation from middle section of THRAK, but album have opening and closing section of THRAK. I think, that they better improvised in 1972 - 74. I prefer improvs from "The Great Deceiver" than improvs from THRaKaTTaK. Greetings -- Pawe~ *wirek @KING_CRIM on IRC ( * - not yet, maybe in future ) 1 Mailto: king_crim at irc dot pl 2 PGP finger: swierk at student dot uci dot agh dot edu dot pl 3 WWW : http://student.uci.agh.edu.pl/~swierk 4 :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 13:20:41 -0500 From: "Chris M." Subject: THRAK is NOT a waltz On the Tabs page, there is a short transcription of THRAK by GK that states the meter as 3/4. This is wholly misleading as to the structure of the tune. The THRAK head is in fact in 5. chord: x x x x x x x x x x count: 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 etc. Sure, this has a hesitant waltz feel, but a closer listen reveals the precise accents on the 1 and 4 of a 5-count. After a few bars of this, Bill and Trey jump into the meter of 7: chord: x x x x x x x x x x x x count: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 This 7 plays against the 5 until the two meters "match up," then the theme is over. This polyrhythm is the whole point of the THRAK head. Sorry to bore any non-musicians, but this is not as trivial as it sounds. when is that Genesis boxset coming, Chris M. univ of tenn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 13:52:12 +0000 From: David Kirkdorffer Organization: little a Subject: 2 Questions: MAX ROACH & 1st Engineer. Hello ETers. I've two questions which maybe fellow Crimson/Fripp fans can answer. 1) Did Fripp ever actually collaborate (live or recorded) with Max Roach? At a Lecture/Frippertronics tour in Boston in 1983, he said a project with Max Roach was planned for the (then) future, and confessed to being terrified... "I'm not shy -- I can deal with being shy. But I can't deal with 50 years of excellence on the world stage. I find that simply too overwhelming. He's amazing. He's completely amazing." 2) Second question. The first three Crimson albums were engineered by the same person, Robin Thompson (spelling?). I'm curious if anyone is aware of other albums engineered by him. David Kirkdorffer PS -- additional Fripp-Olympics spot: NBC recapped the Shotput event Fri/27/July while playing Blockhead from the RFSQ. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Dantalion6 at aol dot com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:04:28 -0400 Subject: Early Crimso Film Dear ETers, I'm interested in knowing what is available for early (1969-1974) Crimso film. I've seen the Robert Fripp "Careful With That Axe" video, which shows clips of two Lark's Tongues period shows. One is in color (Easy Money and Improv), and the other is in Black & White. I've also seen a Beat Club performance of Lark's Tongues in Aspic, Part I from 1972 with Jamie Muir. My questions: 1) What are the dates and locations of these films? 2) Did the Midnight Special 1973 show listed in the Young Person's Guide actually happen, and does the tape exist? 3) Are there any other known videos from 1969-1974? Please feel free to post any answers to ET, or to me directly at dantalion6 at aol dot com. Thanks for helping, Carl Morstadt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:41:14 -0700 From: purch at ix dot netcom dot com (PATRICIA MANLEY) Subject: Anyone know Johnny Warman? Hello ETers! My first post contains a question about a musician named Johhny Warman. Has anyone ever heard of him? I happen to have both of his releases, one a dub ("Walking into Mirrors") and the other on LP ("From the Jungle...To the New Hosizon"). The relevance to King Crimson is that our very own Tony Levin plays on both of the recordings - not to mention Jerry Morrota, Peter Gabriel, and if I'm not mistaken, David Rhodes. It was released in the early 80's (on rocket records), but I have not been able to find out any real information about this character. Can anyone shed some light? Thanks in advance. Bob. (The address is right, the name is wrong) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:55:36 -0400 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: The New Standard Tuning at the Olympics Hi all While watching Decatalon coverage last night(8/1), I noticed that NBC was using both CGT and RFSQ as a music bed. Really neat. CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. --J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Monday at 8PM and midnight, EDT. --Lucien LaCroix ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 01:29:43 -0700 From: gondola at deltanet dot com (E.B.) Subject: Re: Reid In The W.C. > vernon reid's group is the Wild Colonials as far as I know--so the > advertisement has been finally properly billed--it is my understanding > that the WC consists of Vernon on Guitar, a horn player--clarinet I > believe, a drummer and a DJ--so it's a fusion of trip hop/jazz/.... > > --Thomas B. The wish-it-was-still-the-'70s mindset of this list is always a little troubling for me. Is there no one here other than me whose prime musical interests AREN'T prog-rock and jazz/fusion? A lot of ET folks just don't seem too informed about what's really new and interesting in the '90s...sigh. Anyway, let's put this Reid/WC's question to rest once for all, since this is about the third time I've seen this mistake. Vernon Reid is a funk/jazz/noise/rock guitarist. He was the leader of Living Colour, who recorded three albums for Epic between 1988 and 1993. One of them ("Time's Up") is pretty damn good. "Vivid" is half-good, and "Stain" is, well, NO good. :) The Wild Colonials have one 1994 album on DGC, called Fruit Of Life. They're a modern folk-rockish group from Los Angeles led by a woman with a cracking, Debra Winger-type voice. People who dig Natalie Merchant and that sort of accessible, folky stuff enjoy this band. Me, I can't get past that voice. Suffice to say, Vernon Reid has just about little in common with the Wild Colonials as you can possibly imagine. Actually, I have a hard time understanding what the Wild Colonials are doing on a bill with Crimson. To those complaining about the Best 100 Guitarists list: As I conceive it, that list is not so much the 100 BEST guitarists, as the 100 MOST IMPORTANT guitarists. Hence, Keith Richards ranks very highly, though his speed/technique will never win any awards. The same with Steve Cropper, whose style is not technically dazzling but extremely influential. This also explains Fripp's lower position. He may be an astonishing adept player, but the fact is, his style is so individual and quirky that it really hasn't had much impact on the core vocabulary of the everyday guitarist/musician (with certain obvious exceptions, like the boys in Primus). Oh yeah, in the Threads-That-Won't-Die Department: The new Screaming Trees album "Dust" includes a healthy dose of mellotron, played by Benmont Tench (of Heartbreakers fame). GB PS Anyone here into the guitarist/modern composer Scott Johnson? I could definitely see Fripp/Crimson fans digging this guy. Johnson's new album is on Point Music and is called Rock/Paper/Scissors. Check it out if you can! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:35:03 PST Subject: King Crimson/Grateful dead comparison From: alstew at juno dot com (Al Stewart) I must say that I have been surprised at some of the post's regarding 'similarities' between the 2 group's. In short I think the biggest difference is that K.C. has moral's & scruples. Enough said! I enjoy thought provoking music w/ a good influence, not drug infested dribbling, etc. I know this will upset many, but K.C. is a band with a conscience & from Tony levin's page they seem to be pretty 'straight' guy's. In short, I see no comparison whatsoever, they are totally different in every way. Grateful I'm not dead, Al Stewart ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Subject: Re:Mat Cameron Mellotron Date: Sat, 3 Aug 96 14:41:20 -0400 From: "David G. Shaw" David Mechem wrote: > Hmmmm. I was under the impression that the latter was Matt Cameron's >idea, but maybe that's because he's listed as playing it. It seems like >he's the one in that band pushing them toward slightly more prog >territory. Yup, Matt Cameron is definitely a closet progressive. He was drummer for the amazing Tone Dogs, original group of chanteuse extraordinaire Amy Denio. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Subject: Unexpected KC appearance Date: Sat, 3 Aug 96 14:41:35 -0400 From: "David G. Shaw" Cable surfing the other night, passed The Learning Channel, which is airing a series on serial killers. What's the music behind the voiceover? "Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part III!" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Subject: Olympic sighting Date: Sat, 3 Aug 96 14:41:36 -0400 From: "David G. Shaw" Not at all KC related, but since people are posting tunes they've heard during Olympic brioadcasts, I submit the follwing: During a big profile on the USA women's gymnastics team, while showing a segment about their training regimen, the backing track is a nice crunchy grunge riff: "Stupid Girl" by Garbage. Accident or commentary? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Subject: Re: Schizoid Men Date: Sat, 3 Aug 96 14:41:33 -0400 From: "David G. Shaw" This has probably been asked and answered already, but if the Scizoid Man single is "King Crimson Collector's Series Number 2," what's Number 1? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:36:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Ashley Edward Collins Subject: KC on film Charles Barber wrote: >A word of caution and advice. Does anyone really believe or >think that Hollywood would even dare use this type of musical >scoring in one of thier movies? Sorry to those located out there >who may be employed in the 'industry', but I don't think the creativity >or genius to even attempt such a feat would exist or happen. Hollywood isn't the only place making films. There's always the possibility (however slight) that THRaKaTTaCK could make it onto an independent film's soundtrack, although in the same vein as Charles' caution, I don't know how many independent filmmakers would be very much into Crimson. Still, I'd be interested to see what Jim Jarmusch could/would do with this dissonant sonic landscape, given Neil Young's score for his most recent film, Dead Man. Incidentally, I've always thought "Easy Money" could serve as the basis for a pretty interesting short. I picture something along the lines of the factory scenes in Fritz Lang's Metropolis. The film was rereleased in the early '80s with a new wave soundtrack, so why not? Ashley Collins aec200z at barbados dot cc dot odu dot edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 21:27:00 -0500 From: "Sandra J. Prow" Subject: CGT on TV >Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 19:45:30 -0700 . >To my surprise and great pleasure, I heard two songs by the California >Guitar Trio being used as background music during the Olympic broadcast >Friday evening. First during the profile of 38 year old runner, Mary >Staney, and then during a shot-put update. >Great to know that even eclectic musicians like the CGT can have their >music reach millions, even if only a handful of us recognize the >sounds. Paul Richards tells me that the guy who picks the music for these things is a huge CGT fan. I hope that this gets the guys the same sort of recognition that "Nadia's Theme" got a couple of olympics ago. They certainly deserve it! Sandra (rare diehard female KC fan, world's biggest CGT fan) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Udo Dzierzanowski Subject: Europa String Choir Announcement Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:10:36 +0100 *------------------------------------------------------------------------ Announcement: Europa String Choir plus Special (Stick player) Guest in UK Concert *------------------------------------------------------------------------ LOCATION: Bridport Festival, Dorset. DATE: Saturday the 10th of August. TIME: Several slots in the afternoon. LINEUP: ----------- Cathy Stevens - 6 String Violectra Udo Dzierzanowski - Guitars SPECIAL GUEST Markus Reuter - (12 String) Chapman Stick Europa String Choir on the Web: www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/esc Send us Email: ESC at dscplne dot demon dot co dot uk *------------------------------------------------------------------------ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 11:10:18 -0700 From: Patricia Anne Belanger Organization: Union Gas Limited Subject: The Beloved-"X"(FRIPP plays soundscapes) A big hello to ET from CANADA! I just went out and bought the new recording from the group called BELOVED-"X". I would highly recommend this CD to Frippian's(that enjoy a wide spectrum of Robert's work). Actually, this recording came to my attention from the last ET edition. It is quite a bit techno-ish at times but not in a cheesy type of form. The only way I could possibly describe the techno aspect of this recording, is in the sense on how EVERYTHING BUT THE GIRL uses jungle-house in their latest recording "Walking Wounded". Robert's soundscapes on the tracks "A Dream Within A Dream" and "Three Steps To Heaven" are gorgeously spacy. This is possibly some of his finest work(personally). If you enjoy EVERYTHING BUT THE GIRL(their latest recordings) and NO-MAN, you'll cherish BELOVED. A must have in any Frippian education! Thank you ET subscriber's for listening to me babble. JULIAN BELANGER PAINCOURT, ONTARIO, CANADA. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Otherroad at aol dot com Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:45:08 -0400 Subject: The Third Star Trey Gunn's new album, The Third Star, should be released next month. As soon as I can get my hands on it I'll have have soundbites up for it in The Artist Shop . (I should mention that the soundbites for THRaKaTTaK are being downloaded like crazy.) There's already a soundbite up for his first Discipline album, "1,000 Years." All soundbites in the store are RealAudio, so download time is minimal regardless of your modem speed. Trey recently e-mailed me some information on the new album and I thought I would share it with you. **************************************************** Trey Gunn "The Third Star" his new CD on Discipline Records available September 1st ____________________ The Players Trey Gunn -- 8 and 12 string Warr Guitars Toyah -- Vocal Alice -- Vocal Serpentine -- Vocal Bob Muller -- Drums, Tabla, Bandir, Percussion, Cluster Flutes Pat Mastellotto -- Drums, Percussion Mixed by David Bottrill ____________________ The heaventree of stars hung with humid nightblue fruit. -- James Joyce ____________________ The Pieces 1. Dziban (Gunn) 2. Symbiotic (Wilcox, Gunn) 3. Arrakis (Muller, Gunn) 4. Sirrah (Gunn) 5. The Third Star (Bissi, Gunn) 6. Acquiring Canopus (Mastellotto, Gunn) 7. Kaffaljidhma (Mastellotto, Gunn) 8. Yad Al-Gawza (Muller, Gunn) 9. Kuma (Muller, Gunn) 10. Indiera (Gunn) ____________________ It will be clear that putting little white dots on a blue-black surface is not enough. -- Vincent Van Gogh *************************************************************************** >From the titles it sounds as if there could be a heavy world music influence here. Cool! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Randy Long -- Personal Account Subject: The ostreperous Oswald Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 16:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Say, I've got an idea: why don't you all listen to me anal-retentively correct someone on the list? A well meaning et'er posted: Several posters have compared ThrakAttack with the Dead album "Infrared Roses." Well, for the not-so-faint-of-heart, Phil Lesh (bassist for the Dead) put together a 2-disc set called "Grayfolded," which is made up of improvised sections from 25 years of live renditions of their psychedelic freak-out "Dark Star." As it's priced around $30 and not so easy to find, I've avoided it so far, but I'm very, very curious. The only review I've seen was in the hopeless BASS PLAYER magazine, and they rated it "too strange to judge," which leaves me wondering what they thought of ThrakAttack. Well, ignoring the fact that Phil Lesh, bless his heart, probably was too busy practicing his scales to have done this project, it was actually done by culture jammer/ avante gaurd composer/ copyrightviolator John Oswald. It's an excellent overmixing and producing of "Dark Star" jams into a whole new artwork; whereas THRaKaTTaCK is pure improv seamlessly enmeshed, and not changed by the mixing process. Speaking of the Dead, I have a theory about what Garcia would be doing if he were alive today- he'd be furiously scratching at the inside of his coffin. -----Peace and radiokeratonomy, -----Randy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:48:40 -0800 From: ghobish at tscan dot com (Gary Hobish) Subject: Sound (BERKELEY Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:32:17 +0100 From: ggc Subject: Sound from DSMRNGDO at aol dot com >I generally thought the show in Berkeley was good, but I was extremely. >dissapointed with the sound system. While it was good, it certainly >wasn't state of the art, which is what complex music like Crimson >requires. I was sitting 14th row dead center, which is basically the >best seat in the hose for sound. Belew's vocals were too low. Trey got >lost in the mix at times as did fripp. You could here TL's high notes, >but the sub woofers were nonexistent, and reduced the thundering impact >of the music. I was sitting in approximately the same area. Actually, the best spot for sound is never consistently "14th row dead center" or thereabouts; it's wherever the sound board is. In Berkeley's Greek, that was in the _middle_ of the General Admission section; where we were sitting is well below that area and tends to serve as a bass trap, making the bottom end muddy as hell, which is what obscured the vocals and Friips lead lines. I found that by cupping my hands behind my ears, I could increase the clarity 100%. Great show, though; was a lot more loose and "playful" than the other two trips in the past year. GH "Wherever you go,... there you are!"-- --Buckaroo Banzai ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: So what? Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 13:12:00 EST Can't say I'm too impressed by Crimson et al being used on telebision (not a spelling error). I'm glad if the boys got a little dough for it. I guess we devotees get a little immediate pleasure from knowing who it is but does the psyche of the nbc audience change one iota? I think not. Getting a nod from an all consuming enterprise like nbc is not what artists should aim for. My preference is the stereo and particularly the stage where art is on the line not convoluted by tb (cough cough). tbless, tj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:20:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme Subject: Help with record stores needed Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" This little message, just to ask if you aal could send me adresses of american online record stores. I'm french, trying to buy a few things that are not avalaible here, so I need a contact via phone call and/or e-mail. Of course, e-mail me personnaly for the answer. Oh, I forgot. Don't give http and www adresses, I have only access to e-mail here. Thanx a lot ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 00:47:48 -0400 (EDT) From: persephone Subject: tickets for asbury park A bad evil business trip has me leaving town just hours before the Asbury Park show. So I have two orchestra (row P, I believe) tickets forsale. $80 for the pair. -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Heinisch at rsrz14 dot hrz dot Uni-Marburg dot DE Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:50:40 +0000 Subject: Review: Sometimes God Hides - The young persons'guide to KC I just tripped upon another fine CD from DGM containing a selection of pieces from the DGM catalogue. It is called "Sometimes God Hides: The Young Persons' Guide to Discipline" (DGM9605) and is only available till the 1st of September 1996 at the dumping price of two (!) British Pound!!! You can order it at DGM and pay via cheque, money order or by including two IAEs. I guess, some of you are already aware of this brilliant compilation as it was advertised for at the recent King Crimson European tour. En detail the CD contains 79'00'' minutes of superb music allowing a cheap and inspiring view into the rich and deep waters of the DGM label. Here follows the track list: 1. Cage (King Crimson / VROOOM) 2. Red (King Crimson / B'BOOM) 3. Burned by the fire we make (Adrian Belew / The acoustic Belew) 4. Sleepwalk (California Guitar Trio / Yamanashi Blues) 5. Mingled roots (Tony Levin / World Diary) 6. Midnight Blue (Robert Fripp / A blessing of tears) 7. Hope (Robert Fripp String Quintet / The bridge between) 8. THRaKaTTaK 1 (King Crimson / THRaKaTTaK) 9. Radiophonic 2 (Robert Fripp / Radiophonics) 10. Voices of ancient children (Los Gauchos Alemanes / Voices of ancient children) 11. A better time (Peter Hamill / X my heart) 12. 2006 (Robert Fripp / 1999 Soundscapes Live in Argentina*) 13. Train to Lamy Suite (California Guitar Trio / Invitation) 14. The last three minutes (Ten Seconds / Ten Seconds) 15. The third star (Trey Gunn / The third star) 16. Sermon on the mount (Europa String Choir / The starving moon) 17. Be longing (Gitbox / Touchwood) 18. Scanning 2 (Robert Fripp / Soundbites) 19. Inductive resonance (The League Of Gentlemen / Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx) 20. Real life (Trey Gunn / One Thousand years) 21. A connecticut yankee in the court of King Arthur (Robert Fripp and The League of Crafty Guitarists / Intergalactic Boogie Express) 22. Epitaph (King Crimson / Epitaph: Live in 1969*) 23. Sometimes God Hides (Robert Fripp / The Gates Of Paradise 2*) * Forthcoming releases! Some tunes are abridged versions of the longer originals, and for squeezing even the last bit of music onto this promo disc some songs fade into another. Mostly I like the fact that we get to listen to music which is in the pipeline at the moment and waits to be released in the next half year. Finally I think it's a highly laudable idea to publish a thingy as this one at practically almost no cost - hey, it's fantastic, believe me! Greetings to all Big Ears out there, Olaf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:16:54 +1100 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: THRaKaTTaKed my KLipSChOrNS pT-II cents cbarber at gnn dot com (CHARLES BARBER) said: >I always thought that ELP's TARKUS would have made an excellent evening >news lead-in as background 'music' background; never seen/heard it!!! The last 15 notes of one of the tracks on "Trilogy" was, for a while, used as a station ID for New Zealand Television's Channel One (no, I can't remember the name of the track - I sold my copy of that album years ago. Could have been the title track, if the last few notes, after a soaring sustained note, go ya-na-na-na-na-na, ya-na-na-na-na-na-NA, WA-WAAAA!) James ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Heinisch at rsrz14 dot hrz dot Uni-Marburg dot DE Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:52:43 +0000 Subject: Review: Starless banner (live bootleg) I have got another suggestion for spending your money on bootleg recordings of the apparently mostly pirated Crimso show ever (Holland 1973). I decided to add it, because I didn't find it in the "Robert Fripp - discography". King Crimson: Starless Banner (2-CD) live bootleg Jumpin' Jive (JJ003/4) - Canada? Cover shows the 1981 Crimso with Levin, Belew, Bruford and Fripp! On the backside is a picture of Robert Fripp (sitting, with guitar) - most likely caught at a 1981/82 live act. CD No.1: live 23.11.1973, Concertgebouw, Amsterdam [1] + 2 bonus tracks - demo versions [2] Length: 61:42 1. Easy money [1] 2. Lament [1] 3. The book of Saturday [1] 4. Exiles [1] 5. The mincer [1] 6. The talking drum [1] 7. Larks' tongues in aspic (Pt.2) [1] 8. 20th (!) century schizoid man [1] 9. Epitaph [2] 10. The court of the Crimson King [2] CD No.2: live 1973/74 ? Length: 64:27 1. The talking drum 2. Larks'tongues in aspic (Pt.2) 3. Book of Saturday 4. Easy money 5. Improvisation 6. Exiles 7. The great deceiver 8. Lament 9. The night watch 10. Starless CD 1 seems to be the same recording as the "21st century schizoid man" bootleg, just with the difference that on "Starless banner" (CD1) a male voice (radio?) talks a bit about the songs and the band between the tunes. CD 2 was recorded sooner or later in the same tour at an unknown concert. Sound quality is quite good (the demo versions) to average (live). Bye, Olaf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:33:57 -0700 From: erwill at ix dot netcom dot com (James E Williamson) Subject: Crimson rip-off at local coffeehouse I noticed the paintings being displayed that week. They were all orange, blue, black, and white; and all had something to do with the Grateful Dead. One, however, was a four-canvas treatment of the itCoCK cover, surrounded by little Deadskulls, with either lightning or a VW logo in the centre of each. As soon as I saw what it was, I screamed, attracting quite a bit of attention to myself. If anyone has any idea what the motivation for this painting was, feel free to e-mail me. On a related note, I am an ambient keyboardist here in Peoria, Illinois. I have to admit I am influenced by the old Frippertronics shows, as what I do is go to local punk/ska/indie shows, and play in between sets. I dress in a black 3-piece suit with a skinny black tie (Drive To 81' era Frippwear), and play my old analogue synth into effects processors and a cheaper version of what one ETer referred to as the "Soundscape Machine". All the kids who go to the shows love it, especially the sound engineer, who christened me "Half-Time". About the only thing Fripp wouldn't approve of is the fact that I smoke a pipe when playing, to accentuate the easy-going nature of the music. I do have tapes, and if anyone's interested in my work, please send me private e-mail. Hopefully within the next few weeks I'll submit my essay on Fripp and the current Indie Rock movement. Thank You -- James Eric Williamson - erwill at ix dot netcom dot com - erwill at heartland dot bradley dot edu One of Peoria's most obscure ambient blues musicians ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 13:24:25 +1100 From: Anthony Conolan Subject: Re:KC/The Muse/RF's Stillness/Gold CD's/Bandwidth Dear Toby and Fellow Crimhead's, I have been following some of the more heated debates with interest over the last few months, and only now do I feel ready, and able, to present some of my own views on the topics discussed. -On RF's stillness on stage. I for one, am very confused regarding this debate. I have always had the highest respect for Robert's dancing prowess. I was lucky enough to catch the League of Crafty Guitarists on the last leg of their infamous "WHaT'S THE NaME OF THaT SMELL?"-1992 Tour. As the League shuffled to their seats, Robert quickly grabbed a microphone and made an impassioned plea for silence. He then launched into an extended dissertation on the value of physical movement, even going so far as expressing a certain "fondness"(sic) for it himself. Robert then bid the Leage commence one of the sacred Guitarcraft exercises, during which Robert utilized centre-stage to demonstrate an astonishing array of Breakdance routines, mostly culled from the 1982 movie "Streetbeat". I remember his headspins as being particularly crowd pleasing. -On Gold CD's Much debate has been wasted over the sonic qualities of the Sylvian/Fripp collabaration "Damage". I was moved to purchase the CD myself and see if I could detect any noticeable improvement in warmth or presence. To my astonishment, I discovered that not only did the CD change the warmth of sound and bass response, but that the gold particles also changed the pitch, register, chord structure, rhythm and timbre of the music itself. I have taken to painting all my CD's with Gold paint, and can recommend the technique to anyone wishing a truly unique sound experience. -My Muse Experience Like RF in '75, I myself have had an epiphany of sorts. It occured six months ago, and only now am I able to really explain what it was that happened that fateful night. After a successful night, I was lying in bed, enjoying the internal effects of an alchohol-marajiuana induced stupor. Suddenly, and without provacation, my window opened and a brilliant, luminescent ball moved silently towards my bed. I quivered with fear(and a peculiar feeling of mirth), but my fear was put at rest when a reassuring voice comforted me and bid me listen to an important announcement, a message I was to memorize and give to the world. (I have tried to provide the Muse's message verbatim) A MESSAGE FROM THE MUSE "People of earth, and the United States. I have taken possession of this organism to bring you news of great impotence(sic). String instruments are ineffective to communicate directly with me. I much prefer the delicate sonorities of Marching Bands and Sousaphone choirs. As we all know, the Sousaphone is an instrument of great delicacy, with pinpoint intonation accuracy and an expressive soloing capacity without equal." "I therefore command the following wish. That the band known to you bipeds as King Crimson, cease making their infernal string-induced chaos, and commence a re-grouping under the moniker King Sousaphone. I imagine it to be a double trio with the following instrumentation: Robert Fripp Adrian Belew Sousaphone Sousaphone Tony Levin Trey Gunn Sousaphone Sousaphone Bill Bruford Pat Mastelotto Sousaphone Sousaphone Now here we have a truly musical combination." " I would also like a solo section in the piece "Thrak", so that I might answer the alluring call of the Sousaphone with my own instrument of choice, the mighty Euphonium. Consider the awe-inspiring stage presence of the Sousaphone, surely the guitar could never match it's brilliant shi..........." It was at this point I lost my control of my body functions and passed out. The next morning I awoke to discover that not only had the disgruntled Muse attempted to scrawl "Sousaphone" on my bedroom wall, but he had also gone downstairs to make some toast, and as he left, ripped the windscreen wipers off my car. Thank-you for listening Regards, Bough Keaver aconolan at mpx dot com dot au ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:43:50 -0400 (EDT) From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Zero Tolerance For Silence > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 11:30:20 -0700 > From: Kenley Neufeld > Subject: ThrakAttack=Infrared Roses=ARC=Zero Tolerance For Silence > > Speaking of CD's with an ongoing theme of feedback and just straight out > crazy music, Pat Metheny released a CD in 1994 which is in a similar vain. > It has the very appropriate title of "Zero Tolerance For Silence." The CD > was recorded in 1992 and is about 40 minutes with "song" titles called Parts > 1-5. Musicians: Pat Metheny, all guitars. For any of you experimental and > very tolerant music lovers out there, check it out. Very abrasive, > beautiful and definitely _not_ your typical Pat Metheny. Zero Tolerance for Silence is way harsh - I *dont* recommend this one unless you've heard .. well, I guess nothing else is close. The "songs" mostly consist of two tracks of fast-strummed distortion guitar. When I first played it I thought I goofed and put a CD-ROM in to the audio player. :) Check out Fred Frith's "Guitar Solos", which has 18 songs. From the liner: "All of the pieces were improvised ... No overdubs were used; the music is heard as it was played [, for the most part.] The Extraneous noises heard on 'Heat c/w Moment' are those made by my breath and feet while I was playing. The middle part of 'No Birds' was played on two guitars simultaneously.". Weird solo-guitar music. - john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: 6 Aug 96 09:25:00 EST From: "Gilbert Kirk" Subject: Boot-broken-leg This isn't really intended for posting in Elephant Talk. I merely wanted to send it along for informational purposes. Gilbert Kirk Virginia Beach, VA [Interesting reading nevertheless, so I'm including it. - Dan] ************************************************************************** The Philadelphia Inquirer-[IMAGE] Suburban West [INLINE] Tuesday, August 6, 1996 3 arrested in illegal music sale Delco authorities say they obtained bootleg CDs, tapes and videos sold at a chain. By Kyle York Spencer INQUIRER CORRESPONDENT The two owners and manager of a local music store chain were arrested yesterday after authorities confiscated what they said were thousands of illegally recorded cassettes, compact discs, and videotapes of rock concerts. Detectives from the Delaware County District Attorney's Office said the owners and manager of Goodies Disc Exchange stores ran a lucrative underground bootlegging operation from their stores. Detectives say the men also bought, duplicated and sold concert footage of popular rock bands old and new. Among the items confiscated was a much-sought-after recording of alternative rock idol Kurt Cobain, priced at $15, from a Rome concert shortly before his suicide in 1994, officials said. There was also a Grateful Dead compact disc set, priced at $99.89 and recorded during a Paris concert, and an illegal reproduction of one of the Beatles' performances on The Ed Sullivan Show in 1964. After raids at the four stores Wednesday, officials issued arrest warrants for co-owners Joseph J. Trusello, 41, of the 2300 block of Crestview Road, Aston, and Daniel J. Reavy, 36, of the 500 block of Millers Way, Lansdale, as well as manager Michael A. Falcone, 32, of the 700 block of Cherrytree Road, Aston. The three surrendered yesterday to the District Attorney's Office. Each was charged with with criminal conspiracy, being part of a corrupt organization, theft, and unlawfully copying and distributing music products. If convicted, each defendant could face a prison sentence of up to 32 years and a fine of up to $50,000. The arrests stemmed from an eight-month investigation by the Delaware and Chester County District Attorney's Offices. More than 2,000 items and professional duplicating machines were seized, officials said. The items came from stores in the Willowbrook Shopping Center in Boothwyn, the Drexel Line Shopping Center in Drexel Hill, the Willowbrook Shopping Center in Holmes and the Gay Street Plaza in West Chester. According to an affidavit, the investigation was initiated by Delaware County's white collar crime unit after a customer of the Boothwyn store tipped off local officials. Delaware County District Attorney Patrick L. Meehan said the investigation had been prompted by a concern for ``legitimate stores that play by the rules.'' _________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Online -- The Philadelphia Inquirer, Suburban West -- Copyright Tuesday, August 6, 1996 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 9:57:18 EDT From: "mark allen" Subject: Wanted: Tickets for Philly (Mann) Anybody have any extra tickets for the 8/26 show at Mann Music Center? Good seats? Looking for at least 2 tickets. E-mail me at "mallen at ets dot org". Thanx! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:23:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Sorry, more music questions... Who plays with Vernon Reid in Wild Colonials? (Don Byron, maybe?) Who is Tangerine Dream? Why are there so many John Zorn fans on ET? Oh, by the way, maybe a mellotron discography would be in order. (??) Gideon (please reply to me, not to ET) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *** GIG REVIEWS *** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:03:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Christie Subject: Review of the July 26 Berkeley Show First things first: It was a GREAT show! Okay, now I'll break that down. I got a terrific seat--9th row, center, so I had a perfect line of sight down the middle of the stage. After the opening band, which I unfortunately did not pay much attention to, Crimson came on stage from the left hand side. Everyone was immediately on their feet, cheering and whistling. The first song they performed was Thela Hun Ginjeet. Great song to start off with! Unfortunately, it was an abbreviated version--I would have been happy to hear an hour's worth of improvs on it, then maybe Elephant Talk, but anyway... I can't remember the exact order of all the songs played, but I do remember that they did Dinosaur, One Time, ToaPP, B'Boom, Vrooom, Sheltering Sky, Neurotica, Elephant Talk, Indiscipline, Waiting Man, LTiA II, SSEDD, and yes, Schizoid Man. Adrian prefaced Schizoid Man with the comment, "I don't think this song has ever been performed in Berkeley or San Francisco", so we knew what was coming up. And let me tell you, it really rocked! I noticed that a lot of ETers didn't like the fact that they performed it (like playing SM = stagnation), but I kind of viewed it as a reclaiming of the song, especially after that Dunlop ad. Anyway, I was a little bit disappointed in hardly being able to see Robert, especially during this song, but what the heck. The man must have the most nimble fingers in the universe. Oh yes, at the first encore, Adrian, Pat, and Bill came out and did a really cool drum piece--anyone know what it's called? Bill and Tony did a great drum/stick intro to Indiscipline. I never really knew much about Pat, except that he performed on an XTC album, but this guy really knows how to thump those paganskins. At times, it seemed like Bill would hold himself back and let Pat take over and go crazy! Tony was always just on, no worries, just completely in tune with everyone else. As for Trey Gunn, he was playing a Warr guitar (I guess), which I'd never heard before, so I wasn't quite sure what to listen for. Adrian didn't talk much to the audience, but he was totally energetic, jumping around the stage and doing all that freaky weird guitar stuff that we all know and love. And finally, Robert--he sat in the back, behind Adrian, and in shadow, so I couldn't really see him. I'd brought along binoculars, just in case, but I still couldn't discern much emotion or anything coming from him. He was just this dark figure, shrouded in mystery, sitting at the back and emanating the most amazing and beautiful guitar sounds. Overall, it was either beautiful, divinely flowing music, or menacing noises from hell, or a combination of both. And I wanted it to go on until I was completely deaf and obliterated. Truly. This was my first time ever seeing Crimson live and they lived up to my expectations and more! If anyone has a list of the songs performed (I probably left out a few), please email me. And if anyone has a tape of the show, name your price! Blood money, first born, anything. Christie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:11:08 +0800 (CST) From: 940701074 Subject: My 2 cents worth of Crimson (7/27) Well, seeing that I did fly thousands of miles to see the world's greatest band perform, I obviously have something to say about the events that took place at the Los Angeles Greek theater on July 27, 1996. I have previously seen Fripp, Belew, Levin, Gunn, and Bruford with David Sylvian, Laurie Anderson, Peter Gabriel, David Sylvian, and Earthworks respectively as well as being familiar with Mastelotto's work with the Sugarcubes. It was certainly most exciting to see such musicianship come to one forceful mass of energy. No one can deny the musical discipline these men have crafted into their art. However such a mass of energy I felt was undirected that particular evening. Crimson is supposed to be a live band. In previous centuries, all music was live and to some extent, interpreted and improvised at different settings--this is just simply the nature of written media. How the hell are we to know what Bach Inventions sounded like back in the 18th or 19th centuries. It was only in this century that we have recorded media and musicians (popular and classical) go into the concert hall with the intent of duplicating what has been committed to tape. This is why Glenn Gould was so revolutionary--he refused to play it the way it was on tape because he wanted everyone to hear the music "for the first time" that night. Such is the paradigm for Crimson, or so Fripp should like to have. Every performance is a different one, with new arrangements, improvisations, communication with the audience, etc. But I felt that over half the material was just a mere duplication of what we fans had heard on ThrackAttack and all. This made itself evident by the types of shouts the fatass rednecks were making around me: "Oh, this is Neurotica. Yeah dude." "Yes!!!!" which translates to, "Oh I know this. Huh Huh Huh, I'm a real fan." And when Fripp and Bruford/Mastelotto broke out into improv, there was the ever-popular comment, "whatever that was," which translates into "I don't get it, never heard it, let's move on to the next song, maybe I can sing along." This leads to the band's ever tendency to say, "let's scare the audience and wow them," (WHICH THEY DO A FUCKIN' DAMN GOOD JOB OF) rather than, "let's see where this can go." I have seen other similar postings criticizing the lack of improv that Crimson does on stae now---not improv meaning constant trading of solos, but improv on the level of a collective unit. Has Crimson succomed to post-modern performance traps of replicating night after night? Have Crimson fans become intolorant of the band's attempt to discover each other and the audience and create music on the spot? One more thing. What is the deal with Fripp? Why does he love those drones? What is relationship between what he does with the guitar and devices and what we hear? Sure it's interesting, but it reminds me of all those Tod Machover Hyperinstruments in Computer Music where the only person enjoying the expression is the performer/composer. We appreciate a large part of music because we appreciate the technique behind it---technique not just in terms of chops, but in terms of how we develop things, how a style developed etc. But since the vast majority of the world of music lovers probably do not know what goes on with Fripp and his hands and what he does with those knobs and dials during his soundscapes, could we just as well assume that it were all pre-recorded? Most people just seem to say "interesting," or "cool." I say, "What's the relationship?" and "why not a few percussive elements?" better yet, "Hey Bob!! you ever hear that a REST is sometimes the most effective musical element?" Don't get me wrong. I did enjoy the show. It was the best show I've seen in 3 years, but I did travel a long way to see it and I must be honest with my own opinions and thoughts in the court of the Krimson Cing. later, Tim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 02:28:09 -0600 (CST) From: Alicia Sepulveda Subject: Metropolitan theater, Mexico City, 2/8/96 This is the first time I've attended a KC concert. Having read previous gig reviews I was expecting a lot and guess what- they actually surpassed that. I believe today was the kind of night where their strenghth lies in 'playing the tunes'-they were pretty much Adrian's band through and through, and thank God for that. I got to read the set list at Tony's feet, but didn't copy it. Anyway, they opened with 'Elevens', which is indeed the 8-rest-7-rest... 2-drum piece previously mentioned. This song is stunning! They just keep going faster and faster and are perfectly synchronized. After that the whole band hit the stage. Pat has cut his hair and was wearing a nice shirt, etc. Believe me, this suits him much more than his previous 'metalhead' look. Tony has lost a lot of weight since I last saw him (Gabriel Secret World Tour) and didn't seem to be enjoying himself too much, but eventually he loosened up. Everyone else looks pretty much the same as usual. After 11s they did Thela. Probably the best version I've heard. They used the tape of Belew speaking they used in the record. Anyway, every single track they played was stunning, but I'll only talk about: 1) Schizoid Man.- The second best version ever. They actually sweetened up the only part I'm not crazy about-the main riff. Belew sings it in a delicious nasal voice that fits this one perfectly. 2) 3 of a Perfect Pair.- The most improved new arrangement. It seems like they wrote a whole new song for counterpoint. The part where Belew did his solo has now turned into a Fripp-led free-for-all which is actually wilder than the 2 SSEDD breaks. 3) Waiting Man.- Not terribly improved, but this is still one of the finest songs the Discipline band ever did, from their single most underrated album. Why don't they do all of Beat? Anyway, Adrian's vocals were much better than the originals, and he truly brought tears to my eyes. And Trey doubles the melody in a beautiful, glass-like sound. 4) Prism.- Musically much superior to 11s. A real crowd pleaser (when the crowd pleaser is a 3 person percussion piece you know you've got a damn fine group going). Adrian, Bill and Pat all do the verse on 2 tuned drums and a little vibes-cowbells set. Then Bill does solo in the little set. Verse again. Pat does solo in one of the drums and Bill squeezes the drumskin to alter pitch. Verse again, the 3 of them go wild, and they end with the verse. Please release this in some record! 5) Sheltering Sky.- Beautiful and terrifying. Pat complements Bill's Tapo drum with incredibly sweet and tasteful cymbal work. During the solos Trey and Adrian really wailed out. Fripp could've done better though. The Thrak improv was somewhat lacklustre in the light of Thrakattak but it was still damn fine and Trey did a great solo. The part where Adrian uses his electric drill is also a kick. Bill and Pat ended it by playing 11s on their snares. So anyway, in general I would say that the night pretty much belonged to Adrian, and I'll even commit the sacrilege of saying I liked Mastelotto's drumming better than Bruford's. Tony Levin is, as always, the coolest thing in the world, keeping his eyes closed as he dug his funk fingers into his basses, Stick and electric upright. His upright in Thrak and Dinosaur were something to behold, as was his bass in Red. One of his finest moments was when he started playing the Stick line to 'Etude in The Key of Guildford' from World Diary, which led directly into the opening trills of Elephant Talk. Fripp was, as always, quiet, motionless and utterly perfect. Look, he was perfect, what more can I say. Trey is still arguably the weak link here, but seeing him live raised my appreciation of him, and like I said, he did some of the finest solos. The audience was good. Of course, some out of place applauses, screams, etc, but no one yelled 'Epitaph', 'Freebird' or 'Wakeman' :). Everyone was dancing and excited (Trey and Robert looked particularly surprised by the audience), but they also sat down during the quiet ones. Elephant Talk, 3oaPP, Dinosaur and Schizoid Man really brought the house down (betcha didn't think we'd sing back, didya Adrian?). Like I said, they were loud as hell, amazingly precise (although not to the point where they lost any spontaneity, which they certainly had) and utterly heartfelt and emotive. My mother was left speechless (which is a pretty rare occurrance :) although she did mutter 'genius' after Vroom Vroom. Any of the mistakes I pointed out to were cut short by the utter genius of the band onstage. I don't know what else to say, except PLEASE do another official bootleg. Not only were there lots of songs not included in B'Boom, but many of the ones that were have better arrangements now. OK, that's it. This is pretty much the most exciting concert I've attended. I'll be sending the review of tomorrow's concert but I won't be able to go on Sunday. Can anyone cover that? Bye, Pablo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 01:40:57 -0600 (CST) From: Alicia Sepulveda Subject: GIG REVIEW: August 3, Mexico City Today's concert was superior to last night for a number of reasons: Performance-wise, _everybody_ seems to have improved. Maybe Trey wasn't as inspired as last night but even so... Although last night I liked Pat better than Bill (and Pat improved today), Bill showed himself as the godlike drummer everyone knows he is. Adrian was singing louder and better. His guitar improved. Robert was, again, perfect. Maybe the single biggest improvement was Tony, who seemed a bit tense last night and his bass was sadly undermixed, but today he was simply incredibly funky and showed himself as the real backbone of the group. His upright arco solos in Dinosaur (this solo was a little flat last night) and in the improvised Thrak were brilliantly nuanced, virtuosistic and were the highlights tonight. The show began with an incredible Talking Drum (missing last night). Although on B'Bomm it still kept a lot of the melodic elements of the 73's version, tonight it seemed like the only similarity was on the drums and that wonderful bassline. RF did a lot of soundscapes and Trey took a totally beautiful violin-like solo. Then Lark's 2 (which was only average last night) blasted forward and left me breathless. Of all the Belew solos I've heard in diff'rent versions of this song, tonight was the best. Anyway, Neurotica, also missing last night, totally blasted me away. It's hard enough to take on Ministry, and the end is slightly reminiscent of Thrak. The soundscapes before B'Boom were a lot better than last night. The Thrak improv, which was unremarkable last night, tonight was totally eerie and unpredictable, and Pat's grand drumming in the second half reminded me of Mick Harris' work in Painkiller. Adrian played slide in Neurotica, Matte Kudasai and Thrak. Last night he didn't play slide at all. He should really use it more often, as he's simply one of the best slide guitarists ever. The audience was more annoying than last night, although (because?) they remained seated the whole show (the only song we took standing up was Prism, because, like I said, it's one hell of a crowd pleaser. In general, I would say they were more uneven than last night, in that the very strict compositions like 3oaPP and Red were weaker than last night, whereas the freer ones (Thrak, Indiscipline, Schizoid Man) and the ballads (only Matte and Waiting Man, really) were a lot more inventive and powerful today. Obviously the audience found it harder to accept this, but for me there was a lot more Crimson magic in the air tonight. And I'd like to state here that Adrian is the best singer Crimson's ever had (alright, alright, IMHO) Sorry if I wasted a lot of bandwidth Pablo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Organization: University of Mining and Metallurgy From: swierk at student dot uci dot agh dot edu dot pl (Pawel Swirek) Subject: King Crimson in Warsaw 7/6/96 and more Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:00:48 +0200 (MET DST) Hi all ET'ers, Sorry that i write about this show 2 months after it, but i had no time previously. 7th of June was a great day for me. I went Warsaw at 19.10 . I went to hall. At 20.00 California Gutiar Trio went to stage and played 30 minutes of very good music. People was happy after their show. At 20.44 I saw a glassess man at the center of stage with guitar. He was Robert Fripp. After him rest of musicans came into stage. They started play "The Talking Drum". After it they started play "Larks' Tongues In Aspic". Next songs were "Frame By Frame", "Dinosaur" (mellotron sounds was played on guitar by Adrian Belew), "One Time", "Red" (stage was in red light then) and after "Red" on stage were drummers and Fripp. They stared play "B'Boom". After B'Boom rest of musicans came into stage. Next piece was "THRAK". In that song Tony Levin played on strange device which looks like an electric cello. After beginning section of THRAK they started improvisation. I can't say more about that improv. It looks like 2nd, 3rd improvs from THRaKaTTaK and end on that improv looked like THRaKaTTaK p II. After it they finnished play THRAK, but only closing section. Next song was 21st Century Schizoid Man. I was very happy. I believed that 21SCM was absolutely forgotten by band, but they played it. Next songs were not as good as previous. "Waiting Man" and "Neurotica" from Beat, "The Skeltering Sky" (Bill Bruford played it on box), SSEDD, Elephant Talk, Indiscipline. First encore : 3 drummers (not interested.) and Thela Hun Ginjeet. Second Encore : Matte Kudasai and VROOOM, but from EP "VROOOM", *not* from album THRAK It was a great day of my life Next will be reply : On 27 Jul 96 18:41:46 EDT Trey Gunn <74744 dot 443 at CompuServe dot COM> wrote : > > KC HORDE times are: > > Kansas City, KS - 3:45 > St. Louis, MO - 5:00 > Nashville, TN - 5:00 > Cincinnati, OH - 5:00 > Pittsburgh, PA - 5:00 > Boston, MA - 5:00 > New York, NY - 3:30 > Hartford, CT - 3:30 > Saratoga, NY - 5:00 > Buffalo, NY - 5:00 > Portland, ME - 4:00 > Hershey, PA - 4:45 > > but don't trust me, double-check with the venue. > Can you send more info for me ? -- Pawe~ *wirek @KING_CRIM on IRC ( * - not yet, maybe in future ) 1 Mailto: king_crim at irc dot pl 2 PGP finger: swierk at student dot uci dot agh dot edu dot pl 3 WWW : http://student.uci.agh.edu.pl/~swierk 4 :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 02:22:18 -0600 (CST) From: Alicia Sepulveda Subject: GIG REVIEW: august 4, Mexico city (Uh, did I write October on my last gig review? Sorry, it should be August) [Corrected - Dan] KC's last night in Mexico city was very moving. The audience was enthusiastic and very good, although the fact that in front of me, behind me and to my right there were quite a few idiots who kept complaining and didn't clap ruined some of it for me (after a while I just didn't care). That's the problem with the very cheap tickets, although the view was great. Crimson was nothing short of monumental. Pat and Bill bonded together better than they did in either of the previous nights. Fripp was astonishing. Trey Gunn was very good, and I could place him better in the mix. (I called him the weak link 2 nights ago. That is incorrect. He is very much the ensemble player and actually is one of the strongest links). He stepped out more. After Elevens, there were some problems in the mix (Pat was nowhere to be heard, Adrian's guitar was a mess) and it took them most of Thela (Fripp improvised some soundscapes while Adrian talked to the engineer) to fix them. After that, they kept getting better. Before Matte Kudasai, they actually did a drumless and Thrakless improv, with Tony on upright. It was a very succesful improv, it made me feel giddy and anxious. It was reminiscent of the opening of Night Watch or Exiles but without drums. This was wonderful (I wish I'd gotten a look at the setlist to see if this had a name) and a great surprise. During Waiting Man (which was more enigmatic and beautiful than the previous nights) the audience started clapping along, which made Adrian happy and he actually started clapping along too (for a short while). B'Boom was above perfect. Bill was so excited he was soloing all the way through RF's soundscapes and although Pat tried to play B'Boom straight he was so taken by Bill's muse the two of them did an incredibly tight improv for a couple of minutes. Then Thrak hit. You know how live it always starts with RF playing the main theme and then the band strikes? This tame the whole band screamed together, like in the studio versions. The improv was perfect. Although last night it was memorable (I'll never forget Tony's solo) I'm pretty sure the audience started clapping before it was completely over (to me it felt like coitus interruptus). No such tragedy this time. After a tremendously groovy (thanks, Pat) and inspired start, RF hit a huge, sustained chord underneath which the drums fluttered. Fripp touched a button and it all dissapeared, leaving only the slightest reverb behind. I feared the audience applauding at this point but, thankfully (it was really a pretty good audience) they didn't. Fripp repeated this a couple of times (his chords kept getting louder and more majestic) while the band started improvising better and better. And then, with only the slightest cymbal cue from Pat, the whole band hit the main theme again. This was the highlight of all three concerts, and one of the finest experiences I had. KC looked very happy. Sex and 3oaPP were more improvised and better. Adrian sang Indiscipline's 1st verse somewhat hurriedly but after that, it was the best reading of this classic I've heard and when it ended my knees were shaking. This did not happen at any of the previous concerts. Lark's two was also above perfect. Trey stepped out on this one, and Adrian's solo was bigger than it's ever been. Adrian thanked us and said he hoped to return soon and that we had been one of the best audiences he'd played too. They actually did a 3rd encore (Neurotica), one more than usual. After that it was goodbye. Thank you, KC. One small complaint. Isn't playing Red, Vrooom and Vrooom Vrooom all in the same set (which they did at all 3 dates) a bit much? Maybe replacing Vrooom Vrooom with Sailor's tale would be a good idea? Giving Trey a lead role in more songs would be good too. His Warr guitar has an incredible sound and he's a very gifted player, so I think having him play RF's lines is a waste. Of course KC can ignore me for all they care. They were as close to perfect as six musicians can get. Well, this is the last huge post I'm sending, at least in this year, so my apologies for using up your bandwidth. Your very happy mexican friend, Pablo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #295 ********************************