Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #288 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 288 Monday, 1 July 1996 Today's Topics: Special note from Toby Hum,.... KC '81 at The Savoy, NYC Mujician Seattle Gig Cancelled - Reason or Rumors? less amusing :( ET's Influence of RF THRaKaTTaCK Adrian Belew Fan Club Newsletter Check out Wayne Kramer Re: Elephant Talk Digest #286 21CSM and V. Reid Crimson video. On reflection jazz nerve feels less shattered, seeks reproachment vernon reid,LIVROOOM,21st Hendrix; Prism New album and dislocated That Schizoid man Single On Trey Gunn's message... questions, questions Too Many Critic's Re: taking photos at gigs Dont forget Dublin Robert. GIG REVIEWS the Manitoba Mouthharp Millions etc in Brussels (gig review) I wish you were there to see it...... ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Special note from Toby Hi ETers. For the next month or so, ET will be edited by Dan Kirkdorffer (DanKirkd at aol dot com), the ET Webmeister, who will be deputising for me. All ET procedures remain unchanged (except perhaps ET will be better edited!), so please continue to use the following addresses as usual: Send posts to: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Send list admin requests to: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Be gentle on Dan :-). Toby ------------------------------ From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin) Subject: Hum,.... Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:48:15 +0200 (MET DST) Sorry to react such a long time after the postings.... But concerning what the present group should play or not, in concern of the present line-up. Let me remind this. As told before by a man responding to the name of Fripp. Robert, king crimson is an entity. Men (i.e musicians) are not playing music, rather, one should think taht music is playing the human instrument. You have certainly heard that 100 times. In that concern, musician are as surely creating the music as a boat would create the sea that bring it. K.C. is there when music wiches to be heard,That only K.C. can play, and then the question here debated of wether a group, due to membership could or should not play such or such piece is senseless. It is the same entity (i.e. K.C.) expressing its desire to be heard by people. Then any K.C. song can be played, because whoever is in the band, it is in fact K.C. operating thru the musicians commited to let this music flow. I hope it was of any use. Olivier Malhomme ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:00:54 -0400 From: Lawrence Raniere Subject: KC '81 at The Savoy, NYC Hello. In ET #286, Gordon Emory Anderson wrote: >... On KCs first >Discipline tour in 1981 I caught them at the Savoy in NYC (still my favorite KC >concert--I remember Fripp practically writhing on his stool, sometimes looking >down at his guitar while soloing as if it were a live animal he held in his >lap). >Right before the concert, this dude with a beard stood up by the stage, and >turned to face the audience. In a strange, almost priestley gesture, he lifted >two cigarette lighters horizontally out to his sides as if to signify the >beginning of some religious ceremony: a true blue KC/Fripp nut. ... While I also was there, I unfortunately do not remember Mr. Cigarette Lighter. I do remember that concert being particularly alive, with the band members almost bursting out of their skins with enthusiam, especially Adrian. I also believe that was the best KC show I've ever seen, having seen every tour since. I had a great seat, as it was general admission, and The Savoy had these tables set up like a club. I was maybe 15 feet from the boys, and dead center. They played about all of the Discipline album, Red, LTIA pt. 2, and a few songs from the as-yet-unreleased Beat album, all in sterling fashion. As I posted once before, my recollection is that Fripp, during Indiscipline (which closed the initial portion of the show as they usually have done ever since then), was so into the scene, that he actually got off of his stool during his solo in Indiscipline, maybe a few steps, and gyrated in placed while wailing on the best solo I've heard him do to date. I know that Fripp leaving his stool is rare, so I recall feeling privileged. Can Mr. Anderson or any other attendees confirm my hysterical recollection? Later. - LR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 10:58:28 -0700 From: ca dot qc at bdi dot hcc dot com (CA QC) Subject: Mujician Saw a Mujician CD in the store and was wondering if the Tony Levin listed is Mr. Funk Fingers himself? --Thomas B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 16:46:45 -0400 From: ASFSeattle at aol dot com Subject: Seattle Gig Cancelled - Reason or Rumors? For those who care, I too was one of the EXTREMELY dissapointed Crimheads to buy tix and find out a few days later the gig had been cancelled. According to Mark Perry of Possible Productions it was a mistake on the part of the promoter. I called and spoke to One Reel (they put on the Pier shows) and was told by them that it was R. Fripp's decision to cancel. Something about not enough time off between the end of the Europe tour and the start of the West coast tour. I'm trying to get some sort of explanation from Catalyst/Opium Arts. I for one am pissed. I would have been a lot less dissapointed if the had just skipped the Pacific Northwest as they did on the 2nd Leg of of the US tour last fall instead of selling tix at all. Thanks to a kind soul from S.F. I will be at the Greek in S.F. despite the added cost of transportation, hotels, etc. See you at the Greek! Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:49:15 -0700 From: "David A. Craig" Subject: less amusing :( |From: "Andras, Barnabas, Eva and Laszlo TOTH" |Subject: Bruford interview | |AT: I suppose you've heard about or you've even read the Internet mailing |list, Elephant Talk. [snip] |BB: I think in a way it encourages too much gossip, people love to talk. Ain't *that* the truth .... |... and for a while it was very amusing. Then it |became less amusing and now nobody talks about it. *Sob* :( david ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 96 21:11:01 EDT From: Michael Garnice <74762 dot 304 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: ET's Influence of RF Has Fripp opened the floodgates when he stated in THRaKaTTaCK's notes that ET influenced that release? The following additional requests will help us gage the extent of our sway. Robert: 1. I'd like to add to the appeal for another official bootleg with all the songs from 95-96 that were not part of the Live in Argentina release. 2. I think that One More Red Nightmare would sound GREAT as played by the double trio. Please add it to your set today. 3. Please officially rename yourselves "King Crimson and The Coconuts". 4. I will be seeing my 10th and 11th KC shows in August. I think the 12th should be free. This free show should originate from my apartment in Brooklyn. (All ETers are, of course, invited.) -Ringo G ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 96 21:11:07 EDT From: Michael Garnice <74762 dot 304 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: THRaKaTTaCK Although its not easy to listen all the way through, I like THRaKaTTaCK. If nothing else, it will cut down on my bootleg consumption, as I can now easily compare great versions of the most variable part of a Crimson show. Releasing a wide variety of high quality live material is a much greater deterrent against bootlegs than any printed argument. Does anyone know what THRaKaTTaCK tracks correspond to which dates? My one disappointment with the package was that this info was not included. For that matter, does anyone know IF THRaKaTTaCK's individual tracks each represent an actual live performance, or if they are each assembled from smaller bits? The fade out of THRAK Reprise sounds like it might have been tweezed with extra guitar and percussion bits. ------------------------------ From: "Rob Murphree" Subject: Adrian Belew Fan Club Newsletter Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 21:36:00 -0500 Hi All ! ! ! I have updated the Official Adrian Belew Fan Club Newsletter on the Adrian Belew WWW Site. It contains some vital information about THRaK aTTack, touring, a very nice letter from Adrian's manager (Stan Hertzman) concerning Adrian's forthcoming release, OP ZOP TOO WAH and even a song by song SNEAK PREVIEW of "OP ZOP TOO WAH" as written by Belmo (author of Blackmarket Beatles). "Hey, how'd he get a copy so soon?" Anyway, here is a snipet of the Stan Hertzman letter that might interest you fellow- CrimHeads ========================================================= ....For those of you who will see King Crimson this summer on the H.O.R.D.E. Tour (with Blues Traveler, Lenny Kravitz, and Rusted Root), it is likely that you will be able to get a free sampler cassette of two songs from OP ZOP TOO WAH from the Possible Productions booth. I'm sure you will like whatever songs make the sampler (they're all super) but OP ZOP is much more than just a collection of songs and the album will be the true Belew experience. -Stan Hertzman ========================================================= Unfortunately, the H.O.R.D.E. tour is coming no where near me so if anyone is so inclined..... hint, hint, hint :) Remember, start asking for OP ZOP TOO WAH now!!!! Bug the hell out of your local record store and favorite radio station. Tell them they have two months to order. Or read the entire letter and do what comes naturally. As many of you know, Adrian is not only an excellent musician but a wonderful person all together. Let's all work together to get OP ZOP TOO WAH and Adrian the exposure they both so greatly deserve. Thanks, Rob ADRIAN BELEW WWW SITE http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino FAN CLUB NEWSLETTER http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino/news.htm ------------------------------ From: "Caron, Antoine" Subject: Check out Wayne Kramer Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 10:59:00 EDT I'm taking the liberty to post this because...people who have read my posts from the past know I have celebrated the Crimson King time and after. And, in the end, this may not be so far remote...Last night I saw Wayne Kramer's show for the second time in less than a year. For you younger people, Kramer was one of the axemen for Detroit's MC5, in the late sixties. They, along with Iggy Pop and the Stooges defined and anticipated the whole punk and heavy metal genres. Their live shows are legendary and carried, in the case of the MC5, a strong political, anarchic message. Twenty-five years or so have passed, Kramer had "disapeared" from the music scene, became a junkie and was jailed for drug dealing. But now, he's BACKKKKK. Wayne Kramer is a master of the Stratocaster/Marshall sound. More than that he is a great musician and improviser. His set took us through new tunes, MC5 classics and long improvised segments where he and his excellent drummer (Brock Avery) and bass player took chances, explored free jazz-like textures and funk....absolutely amazing. In his songs, Wayne spoke of the broken american dream, of the streets and the violence and the degradation of everything in such an accurate, concise way as to make grunge and metal look like a confused magma. Last year ,and this year too, he played his heart out for a handfull of Montreal fans, gracefully, smiling, having a great time. Kramer is as sincere a performer as I have ever seen. His music sounds wonderfully fresh and his message is more relevant than ever. He came back to blast "Kick out the jams" and it was such a lightning bolt of true feeling in the midst of all this mediocrity, this superficial power tripping America that suffocates imagination and hope. Go out and buy "The Hard Stuff" or the new one "Dangerous Madness". Better still, see the man live if you can. And hey, when Wayne improvises...I swear sometimes I hear something crimsonian, that "it" that Kerouac talked about. Rats of illusion Boys in the back room Poets of tabloid murder Live with film at noon Daytime confession talk shows Nightly true crime-o-rama Live from the house of corrections It's network slime-o-rama (Kramer) Antoine W. Caron caron at biotech dot lan dot nrc dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:22:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #286 Couple of annoying questions. In this week's L.A. Weekly (yeah, I know, "prog-rock pond scum"), KC is listed as playing at the Greek with Vernon Reid (of Living Colour, solo albums, and work with Ornette Coleman's PrimeTime. Oh, and the Jamaladeen Tacuma album that Bruford plays on.). Is this actually the case? What happened to the CGT? Any possibility of Reid playing with Bruford? Who will Reid be playing with? THRaK aTTak liner notes show Bruford playing marimba: when did he play marimba? I remember reading an interview in which he said that he once played mallet percussion (marimba, I believe), and certainly a lot of the electronic stuff he does approximates a marimba sound. But did he actually bring a marimba on stage with KC? Gideon- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 96 01:22:36 -0700 (PDT) From: erik simpson Subject: 21CSM and V. Reid >"Prog-rock legends King Crimson finally release their seminal song '21st Century Schizoid Man' as a single a staggering 27 years after it was first recorded. "And the reason? It's used in the latest Dunlop TV ad. The single hits the shops today." (Monday 24 June) >As I can't get into town today, can anyone post a track-list for this >release? Thanks in advance. Check out the Opium Arts Crimson webpage at; "http://www.cinenet.net/users/catalyst/crimson.html" There are also Sylvian, Fripp, Michael Brook, Bill Nelson and John Paul Jones pages under construction there. The list of the single is 5 different versions of 21CSM as follows; 1. edit 2. Original lp version 3. Live from (apparently forthcoming-'96) "Epitath:Live in 1969"-Fillmore West 4. Live from "Earthbound" 5. Live from "USA 2" (also apparently forthcoming-'97)-Asbury Park, NJ >Speaking of strange or unusual billings with KC, a person by the name of >Vernon Reid is opening for them in Berkeley in July. This is the guy from >the band Living Colour (they opened for the Stones in '89). Anyway, he has >a new CD out and here are some quotes from an ad for his new CD "Mistaken >Identity": "Hardcore hip-hop ain't the only sound with fury." (Vibe) >"...Vernon Reid is happy to let his ambition and imagination run riot..." It may not be that strange of a combination, really. His new recording is one of the highlights of the year so far for me. A truly unique combination of hip-hop, rock and jazz, among other things. Great guitar playing from Vernon and great clarinet playing from Don Byron. Vernon's playing has always been pretty far outside the rock mainstream, even when Living Colour wasn't always. Having come from Ronald Shannon Jacksons Decoding Society (Jackson, a former drummer for Ornette Coleman, comes highly recomended,IMO, especially the albums he did with VR), he always had a more jagged, occasionally dissonant approach that could appeal to Fripp fans, and his playing was and is never less than passionate and searing, again not unlike RF. I am not the first to make these comparisons. A couple years ago one the Guitar magazines put Fripp and Reid together for an interview, and drew some parallels between the 2 (not unlike last years Crimson/Primus comparison piece in Guitar Player). Regards, ----- erik reid simpson eriks at on-ramp dot ior dot com http://www.ior.com/~eriks ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:26:35 +0200 From: Ake Nordebrand Subject: Crimson video. Hallo. Stockholm 29 jun 96. My name is Ake Nordebrand i,m living in Stockholm/Sweden, i have been trying for a couple of years to get a copy or a King Crimson, both here in Stockholm and in London. Since the the Crimson gang never seems to wisit Stockholm or Scandinavia, well the second best is on video. Do you know if there anyone aviable?. Thanks for a wery interesting web-site. Yours Ake Nordebrand Stockholm. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:02:22 -0400 From: Nel3 at aol dot com Subject: On reflection jazz nerve feels less shattered, seeks reproachment A more connective, less reflexive and (perhaps) less flambescent note, herewith my second reply to David Ewing (previously disputed with in ET #283/285): Think I made my point in my diatribe against your "dispute" with me over the extent of the free jazz influence in 73-74 KC. An observation or two follows: 1] A point of contention was (more or less) resolved with your statement that the biggest connection between KC and free jazz was the Muir connection. Having heard an album by a band (whose name currently escapes me) that Muir played in just prior to his brief stint with KC, I can see just how strong the influence was on Bruford. Meanwhile, the Fripp "Great Deceiver diary" points to some connection between his muscial search and John McLaughlin's and at some point they (searches) touched before....fracturing. (Interesting, too, that Hendrix' jams with McLaughlin begat a major change in the latter's style.) 2] I believe you have adequately summed up our real disagreement when you say: "...the extent to which we apparently disagree." 3] Regarding monikers, "Nel3" is my preference, thank you (not Nel, 3, or @aol.com) - my use of "Mr. Ewing" to refer to you was my way of adopting a Wm.F.Buckley-like sartorial style, sort of an in-joke, not unlike the KC in-joke contained within this very sentence. Some are just for me, you see.... 4] Just purchased Beat again (thanks to PossProd at aol dot com!) after a long absence and must observe that Requiem DOES sound like free jazz to me! Very truly yours, The aforementioned Nel3 P.S. If you think I've mellowed, don't worry -- wait till you see my latest observations on Trent Spamzer! ------------------------------ From: Terrence Dorsey To: "'et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk'" Subject: re: More strange KC bills Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 07:34:29 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.979.0 Encoding: 27 TEXT >Speaking of strange or unusual billings with KC, a person by the name of >Vernon Reid is opening for them in Berkeley in July. Vernon Reid just played the "What is Jazz?" festival at Irving Plaza in NYC. I didn't attend, but this is what Jon Pareles wrote about it in the NY Times (Wed. 19 June): "the guitarist Vernon Reid, formerly of Living Colour, and his new group, Masque, graft together rock, funk, hip-hop, and jazz.... Masque exists to straddle genres. In pieces from Mr. Reid's new album, "Mistaken Identity" (550 Music/sony), he set up a byplay of styles. He played hefty hard-rock guitar riffs and solos full of siren wails and high-speed curlicues. They were answered by D.J. Logic's record-scratching or by dissonant, new-jazz runs and jabs from Don Byron on clarinet. A rapper, Beans, declaimed in a few songs.... At times, the pieces resembled 1970's jazz-rock fusion, moving arbitrarily from one section to the next. And Mr. Reid, a whiz-bang guitarist, too modestly gave much of the solo time to other group members. But when Masque revved up all its stylistic options at once, it was pure urban exhilaration...." and my two cents about the venue: greek theater in berkely is THE BEST outdoor venue i've been to. right in front of the soundboard is the place to be. you'll have to stand, but it's worth the trouble. that was my seat for David Gilmour and Yes shows in '86. terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 18:18:57 -0400 From: JimKlo at aol dot com Subject: vernon reid,LIVROOOM,21st Hello all, Mr. Reid's opening for KC might have something to do with an interview he did with Robert Fripp about three years ago, in a publication entitled Guitar World. It was more of a conversation than an interview, between two people who had more than a glowing admiration for each other. Robert spoke of Living Colour's(Reid's old band) music as a rejuvinating force during the time of his problems with E.G. management. KC's decision to have Mr.Reid open for them does not suprise me, because he and Fripp seems to be two branches cut from the same tree. Also, has anyone else seen LIVROOOM? It was a double live cd, taken from their perfomance from the Royal Albert Hall during last year's tour. The price($60) along with the packaging(very nice) made it seems like a proper recording. It includes B'Bish, but one of the songs was titled "People are the mainspring" which leads me to belive this is a bootleg.ANY HELP? Finally, why isn't the double trio's rendition of 21csm on the single? I would love to hear this since they are not coming by my little corner of the Earth on this tour. OH WELL. Joshua klocek ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 23:53:55 -0400 From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) I am out here in the middle of Nowhere, NY and since I can't see Crimson live, I am eagerly awaiting THRaCKaTTaCK. Does anyone know when the release date for the states is? I was told that it was June 24th, but talk on this list has left me wondering... =0D I talked to a friend in Colorado who listens to a pretty wide variety of music, including Crimson and Dave Matthews and Blues Traveler. When I told him about the H.O.R.D.E tour and that KC is in this year, he was amazed. He said that the atmosphere of a KC concert vs. that of a Dave Matthews or BT concert is very different. He didn't think RF would get along very well w/ the other bands of HORDE or the HORDE crowd either Although this is mere speculation, I wonder if someone who is going to HORDE to see KC could report to ET about any perceived differences between KC HORDE and 'normal' KC. I was listening to Chronicles by Rush recently and noticed that, in the booklet that comes with the CD's, it says Neil Peart was well schooled in the art-rock forms of Pink Floyd and... King Crimson!! So my question is, which version of KC was Peart influenced by? He joined Rush in '73-'74, I believe, so this leaves three? possible incarnations. In regards to the condition of JW's vocals, I saw him on his mini-tour last year (admission was a canned good!!) and I thought his voice sounded great. I was only sad that the local radio station couldn't provide him with better speakers, as they tended to crackle and fizzle when JW really got going. However, I was a bit dissapointed in the "Chasing the Dragon" CD but I attribute this to the poor quality of the sound rather than the demise of JW's voice. During the JW concert I went to, JW stated that he was doing the whole one man tour thing because he felt it allowed the message of the songs to finally get across to people. He lamented the old days (I assume he ment the KC days) when he would simply shout the lyrics as loud as he could in an attempt to be heard over the rest of the instruments. For this reason, I got the feeling that JW was dissapointed with his singing while with KC. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 00:15:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Watcher Of The Skies (John P Mohan) Subject: Hendrix; Prism >BTW, Fripp has been quoted as not caring for Hendrix's style so the feelings >were not mutual. That's odd; I swear I once read a quote from Fripp saying that Hendrix's death was one of the greatest losses the music world has ever experienced. Point #2: What's this "Prism" that keeps appearing on the set lists? Is it another drum feature? Improv? The summer tour is coming nowhere near me, so I have no idea when I'll be able to see Crimson again, sadly... ------------------------------ From: ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is (Orn Orrason) Subject: New album and dislocated Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:29:14 +0000 (GMT) Hi there 1. I bought the new League of Gentlement album "Thrang Thrang Gozilnbux" (Fripp loves new words) and can surely recommend it. It is not a great recordent with a little hiss and limited treple but it captures the live feeling and the energy of band. Robert can be heard a lot both soloing and playing in the usual LoG style (cross picking). A lot of Fripp guitar for those in need of new medicine, some of it played in a rather free style for him, reminds me of Hendrix. There is a great little song there called "dislocated" which I suggest to the new KC for experimenting with. I am sure it fits the band well and could be a succes. 2. 21st CSM has been release on a single (funny idea) creating theories here on the ET pages that RF is here inviting the 21st Centurey that is about 3 years away. These ideas are over the top. The song is now widespread because of it's playing in a Dunlop advertizement nad that must be the reason for it's release. It is a good opportunity for the band to get new fans which it obviously needs. A 6 man band selling only 500.000 records is going to have hard times. 3. Trey Gunn is saying that a new album will be released in 1998. What a slowness. I can't belive this. This must be a sign of age. I think the guys should work faster , that will stimulate creativity more then the slow secure process. 4. Every review says that the band is much better than last year. This means thtat we need live material from this tour also. regards -- * Orn Orrason E.E. Univ. Iceland - Systems Engineering lab * * Tel +354 525 4699 Fax +354 525 4937 * * http://smyrill.kerfi.hi.is ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is * ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:27:27 +0100 From: Barrie Sillars Subject: That Schizoid man Single That Schizoid Man single in. KING CRIMSON: Schizoid Man (Virgin/DGM) Track 1: 21st Century Schizoid Man (edit) 4.44 Track 2 : 21st Century Schizoid Man (original) 6.53 Track 3: 21st Century Schizoid Man (live 1969) 7.25 >From "Epitaph: Live in 1969". (Discipline release, late 1996) Recorded at Fillmore West, San Francisco on 15 December 1969 by Richard Vickers Track 4: 21st Century Schizoid Man (live 1972) 11.28 >From "Earthbound" (deleted) Track 5: 21st Century Schizoid Man (live 1974) 8.19 >From "USA II" (Discipline release, Spring 1997) Recorded at Asbury Park, NJ on 28 June 1974 A Personal Note from Robert Is this a single? Is this an album? Is this listenable? Six years of Schizoid Man by three different King Crimson line-ups in four locations at four different times and places = intense And now a Dunlop advert = irony Comments: To Roberts question is this listenable. Well yes, as it works in the same way as THRaK aTTaK works. The middle section of Schizoid Man was always used for improvisation and this is amply presented in these various versions. Particulary, the '69 live version has some nice Ian McDonald sax and its good to hear David Cross's violin solo re-instated on the monster '74 version. At last we are to have "USA". But why do we have to wait until Spring of next year to get it? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 15:56:10 -0500 From: GBastug at essexusa dot com Subject: On Trey Gunn's message... It was a pleasure to read Trey Gunn's revealing comments in ET #287. While we can do nothing but respect it, it was disheartening to hear that the next release of new material isn't planned until 1998! (I had to check my computer's date to double check what year this was now). This means one or more things: * Peter Gabriel needs Tony in 1997 * Earthworks will spontaneously reform (or Yes) * Belew will spend the entire year frantically trying to remember how to make his guitar sound like, well, a guitar. * Fripp will enroll Johnny Toobad in the next Level I GC course as an opportunity for repentance. * Fripp releases the archive recordings of Sunday All Over the World. Also - is it just me, or have others noticed that Possible Production's web site at Rockslide has been down for about a week? Asbury Park, 10th row orchestra! And here's repeating my vote to have the upcoming video released on laserdisc!!! Greg --If Fripp is simply a conduit for the music from the muses, who should really own the copyright? I think the muses are getting screwed...-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:17:59 -0400 From: jwc146 at psu dot edu (Sir James) Subject: questions, questions Hi! This is my first posting here at ET, but some of you may know me because I am starting to become a regular over at the NOTES TO THE EDGE (YES) newsletter. I have just aquired VROOM from a friend, and I have a couple of questions #1--What is it's purpose? The only thing that it has that makes it somewhat special is that it has some alternate versions of songs already on THRACK. But I am willing to stay with the origionals with a good live album or something. #2--The first song on the album is called "VROOM," wasn't that song called "CODA MARINE:375" on another album? What is that all about? I also have a question about musicanship. I don't know very much about violinists and saxophonists and the like, so I thought I'd ask here. I know you are all BIG KC fans and are partial to their musicans, but I am curious, in reality, in the whole scheme of things, how good or proficient a musician is David Cross or Ian McDonald? Secondly, I was just reading about Robert Fripp being rated #51 out of the 100 best guitarists, I agree that is way way too low. But I have a question, again I don't know much about Hendrix so maybe someone could clear something up for me. Why is he #1--yes I realize he started an entire new genre or style, but c'mon, the man couldn't even read music! I am sure there are alot more proficient guitarists out there, IE--ROBERT FRIPP. Fripp could play Hendrix stuff, but could Jimi play Fripp stuff--I don't think so! Also, where was Andy Van Halen, Trevor Rabin, Peter Banks, and especially Steve Howe ranked on the list? Personaly I think Howe's probably the best guitarist around, he can play and utilize instruments and stlyes that not many other people can do--but of course this is a YES fanatic speaking--THANK GOD HE'S BACK!!! Well thanks for listening, I appreciate it! Thanks in advance for the answers to my questions, if you want you can EMAIL me directly! Thanks!! Jim ************************************************************************* "Happy Family, one hand clap, four went by and none came back."--- "Happy Family" by King Crimson ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:05:54 PST Subject: Too Many Critic's From: alstew at juno dot com (Al Stewart) Hello, This is my first post to e.t. I have recently 're-discovered' K.C. & will be going to the show in Asbury Pk. in August. I must say I am happy qwith the music after hearing it again after 20 yrs. or so, my favorite thus far is 'Red' & 'B'boom'. I have a few questions but first I'd like to make my point. Judging from interviews I've seen here & on other site's & seem's that the band members have become a little 'frustrated' (may not be the right word?) that these site's turn into 'eveyone's a critic' instead of a site where folks just plainly talk about the band & music in general, however it seem's like you always hear 'well this one this & that one that', etc. so I think they (the band) somewhat get turned off. My questions are the following: 1) I've heard that U.K. sounds a little like K.C., is this true? 2) what is John Whetton up to now? 3) What other group's out there employ the mellotron like K.C. (I really like the sound) 4) Can Usa live or Earthbound be purchased on c.d.? I heard the sound quality on usa live is not good, (not the music!!) Well anyhow I enjoy music that makes you think & has meaning & I feel that's K.C. Thanks & God bless, Al from Connecticut ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:55:30 +0100 From: brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de (Alex Brugger) Subject: Re: taking photos at gigs In ET#287 GW wrote: > I am not a professional photograph, I just take photos for my very personal > memo-book. Could this really annoy Robert ? What is the reason for this > photo-phobia ?? Or ist this just a rumour ? I don't think it's just a rumour. the story with this girl being hassled by the crew went on as follows: I met her again after the show and asked her about the incident. There she told me that the roady wanted to take the film out of her camera and only because she kept reassuring him that she _knows_ it is Robert who doesn't want pics to be taken and that therefore she took the photo when Robert was _not_ on stage (during Prism) the roady finally let her go without destroying the film. Besides, all the professional photographers are only allowed to take photos during the first two songs of each show. and since at Hamburg nobody knew whether the drum duett intro counted as a 'song', the photographers also didn't know when to leave. one of them asked me during Dinosaur "now is this still the second song or the third????" - and just a bit later our dear roady (yes, the same one) came and---guess what--- told the photographers to leave.... Gerd, if you took photos standing in the second row, I suppose you were really lucky that the crew didn't notice.... bye, Alex ------------------------------ From: "Alan Maguire" Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:22:08 +0000 Subject: Dont forget Dublin Robert. Hi, Sorry my first post has to be so mundane, but is there any chance KC will perform in Ireland anytime soon? I know touring is expensive but I can promise the attendance of myself and a small but devoted legion of fans. Trey Gunn commented in the last issueof ET that there would be no live shows in 1997.Pity. Also as of Monday 1st July there is no sign of THRakATTaK in Dublin shops.H.M.V, Tower, Virgin.....WAKE UP!!! One last thing, how long must we wait for another RFSQ or league of crafty Guitarists album.IMHO The Bridge Between and Show of Hands are RFs best solo work to date by far. Cheers, Alan Maguire ------------------------------ GIG REVIEWS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:01:00 PDT From: Erik Matthysen Subject: the Manitoba Mouthharp Millions etc in Brussels (gig review) King Crimson played live in Brussels on Friday June 28th. They were of course amazing. Last year I also saw them in Brussels, though in a different venue (which happened to be my first KC concert ever). I won't drool all over you with my excitement, just give some comments. SET LIST: Drum duo Thela Hun Ginjeet Red Dinosaur One Time Neurotica B'Boom/Thrak/ThrakAttak Three of a Perfect Pair 21st Century Schizoid Man The Sheltering Sky Waiting Man Elephant Talk Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream Indiscipline first encore: Drum Trio, Vrooom, Coda second encore: LTIA part II Much the same set as the previous concerts of this tour. ToaPP is perhaps the least often performed in this tour. STRONG POINTS: * even though no new material was played (except for drum solos and ThrakAttak) the set was quite different from last year (9 new songs out of 20 played). * Schizoid Man was an absolute highlight. The band played it as if they wrote the song themselves, and yet remained true to the original version. It fitted amazingly well with the rest of the material. A definite killer. * ThrakAttak was another great experience. Am I glad I decided to buy the CD. This piece redefines KC in all its uniqueness. Only I regret that "Thrak" as we know it from the previous CDs has been reduced to a short intro and outro. WEAK POINTS: * sorry, but this Crimson does not particularly do justice to the "repetitive gamelan" material of the 80s. Thela, Neurotica, ToaPP were outright weak: if you didn't know the songs the rhythm didn't make much sense, the sound system didn't do much good either. Elephant Talk and Sheltering Sky were OK but not as good as the originals. Last year I had the same disappointed feeling with Frame by Frame (though they played Discipline brilliantly). Could it be that this material is too delicate, the patterns too intricate to manage it with six instead of four musicians? Unfortunately I never saw or heard the 80s KC play live. * little adventure in the arrangements, particularly of the 90s material. Even ThrakAttak reminded me very much of the album even though I played it only once so far. * Trey Gunn is very much the hidden personality in this outfit. All the others have their solo/duo/trio spots except him, and I hardly ever could make out his contribution to the sound. * this woman who was clapping to "Sheltering Sky", to the point that many people were "ssshh"ing or started yelling by the end of the song. Clapping in simple 4/4 to a piece with a complex rhythm (as all KC music is) not only violates a basic element of KC but also spoils the fun for the rest of the audience. This band definitely deserves the name King Crimson. SUPPORT ACT: CGT started at 8h sharp and ended at 8h30 sharp, room lights went on, no encores. That, and the fact that my friend and I spent most of their set thinking of alternative names for the band (what about "Congo Conga Combo? Panathinaikos Panflute Plenty? Hungarian Harp Hundred? Lusitanian Lute Last? Enkhuizer Eendelokfluit Eenling?") about sums it up. Please KC, bring Primus next time or start early. Erik Matthysen, Antwerp, Belgium ------------------------------ From: Elsen dot Martin at eu dot mwhse dot com (Elsen Martin) Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 10:28:10 +0100 Subject: I wish you were there to see it...... Mondo greetings ETers..... Sunday night's performance at the Shepherd's Bush Empire was truly sublime ! . I was VERY fortunate to get Robert's set list from a member of the road crew afterwards.... ( owe you one, mate ). The list was as follows..... === Eleven's === Thela Hun Ginjeet === Red === Frame by Frame === Dinosaur ==================== === One Time === VROOM VROOM ==================== === B'Boom === THRAK ==================== === Sheltering Sky === Waiting Man === 21st Schizoid Man ==================== === Elephant Talk === Sex === Indiscipline **************************** **** Prism **** Larks Tongue **************************** **** VROOOM The most humourous aspect of the performance was when Adrian lost timing at the end of " Frame by Frame ", which resulted in the band almost losing it completely ! ! ! ........ When they finished the song, Robert was clearly unimpressed and as Adrian faced him, Robert slapped himself on the wrist twice. This was interesting and certainly clarified Robert's position as mentor within the group. I was watching Robert carefully throughout the concert and there was a point were I was certain that he was meditating, his left hand was lying limply on his left thigh and his eyes firmly closed and he did not move a muscle. It was very curious. Anyway.... I don't mean to moan, but I really wish that the crowd were more responsive. It really isn't surprising that bands such as KC hardly ever visit the UK. These guys want something out of it too ! ! ! . I have to apologise to Adrian Belew. He was scanning the crowd with his unimitable stare when I caught his eye briefly and proceeded to stick my tongue out at him in a very cheeky manner! .... needless to say, he laughed. All in all, I am sure that all that attended would agree with me that the entire performance was no less than brilliant. I am just gutted that I cannot go to their last date tonight...... By the way, who was that Zappa looking guy in the boozer next door ? ;--) Best wishes Martin Elsen elsenm at mwhse dot com ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #288 ********************************