From et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot ukMon Jun 17 06:46:59 1996 Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 04:26:21 GMT From: Elephant Talk Reply to: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: bulkmail at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #283 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 283 Friday, 14 June 1996 Today's Topics: ** ET Admin: the new addresses ** Untie and Unlatch Earthbound KC in Nuremberg Two tickets for KC gig 30th June for sale Talking via Elephants Who do I go to see Crimso for (was: Re: Whining) ET/KC Concert RE-> Radiophonics Two KC tix (DC/MD) for sale (fwd) Crimson in NJ LOG anecdote THE ROCK & RADIOPHONICS the usual suspects THRaK aTTaK and other musings 21csm again Dave Matthews KC on Radio, Midwest KC dates?, the full quote .... Is KC prog or art ??? Earthbound The Portable Great Deceiver KC plays Asbury Park New Crimson Tour Dates Wanna Get Crafty? jazz nerve struck; nerve strikes back... "Schizoid Man" -- A Slight Reprise GIG Reviews Short review: KC in Cologne KC in Nuremberg Comments on the Warsaw show Great Gig in Warsaw Gig review Nuremberg, Germany, June 11th 1996 / --contains SPOILERS-- KC in Dortmund ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Toby Subject: ET Admin Hi, would everyone please note the new contact addresses for ET: 1. Send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk 2. Address all list admin requests to the mail server at et-admin@@blackcat.demon.co.uk (send a message saying HELP in the body to get instructions Mail going to the inappropriate address is likely to vanish into thin air! And PLEASE, if you are a *** S T U D E N T *** about to lose your College email account over the summer -- please tell us! Thanks for your cooperation Toby ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:26:35 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Untie and Unlatch Emuguy5830 at aol dot com wrote... > I want to hear some support for my personal favorite, and widely > neglected, KC album. I am speaking of course of Islands. You'll hear no criticism of that record from this corner. Side one boasts Fripp's Finest Hour in 'The Sailor's Tale' and side two houses at least two great pieces of music, being 'Ladies of the Road' and the outstanding title track. The rest of the record is almost unique in the KC canon in that it is profoundly different in 'texture' to any other I can think of. It's jazzy, but not in the upfront way like so much of 'Lizard' was and it's still got that determined streak of grandiosity, but not in an as overt manner as the first two records. It's certainly sparse bnut not to the extent that it's full of holes; there are a lot of things going on, just not all at the same time. The original poster also alluded to the (almost) total lack of Mellotron on the album, which is quite true. Aside from the (blistering) lead played on 'Sailor', when it fades in towards the end of the title track and hence the album, it's more like welcoming back an old friend after an enforced sabbatical. What marks the album is continual understatement. I really have never understood all the negative feelings expressed about it. > This is the album where Mel Collins wails and, simply-spoken, kicks > ass. Someone else here posted that Mel Collins 'kicks major ass'. Has Mr Collins been reported to the Buttock Police? I just love American idioms! :) *------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland : Fax 0131-653-6124 crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk : Columnated Ruins Domino : Cheetah Soon! *------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:36:40 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Earthbound whatthat at nando dot net wrote... > Seems I read somewhere (the scrapbook?) that it was mastered to > cassette of all things -- it does lend loads of character to that album. It was recorded on a stereo cassette fed from the mixer. Most of the distortion you hear on the record is down to the cassette clipping the incoming signal. > I've always loved this album, what with the out of tune mellotrons in > "The Sailor's Tale" As far as I can recall, that particular track was recorded outdoors in Jacksonville in 1972. According to the liner notes, it was pouring with rain at the time, which might explain the 'unique' sound of the Mellotron; the one thing they 'responded badly to' was any sign of dampness and promptly departed one key for another in the process. :) *------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland : Fax 0131-653-6124 crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk : Columnated Ruins Domino : Cheetah Soon! *------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 96 12:51:00 Z From: "Keith Smillie" Subject: Two tickets for KC gig 30th June Dear ET, I have two spare tickets for the KC gig in London on Sunday 31 June. If anyone's interested mail me direct at: keith dot smillie at unilever dot com Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 96 09:08:41 EDT From: Matt Dawson Organization: University of Louisville Subject: for sale hello, for anyone interested, I've got a copy of the Raisin's Cd for sale. To refresh memory, it was produced by Adrian and is basically the Psychodots and the band that evolved into the Bears. if interested, e-mail. thanks, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:29:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "M. S. AtKisson" Subject: Talking via Elephants At a store here in Boston's Chinatown I saw a poster advertising ElephantTalk. Curiousity piqued, I looked more closely. It's a prepaid international phone card. Wonder where they got the idea for the name... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:51:38 -0400 From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: Who do I go to see Crimso for (was: Re: Whining) On Mon 10 Jun 96, David Charlap wrote: >Personally, I don't care much about Fripp. He may be the driving >influence of the band, but I go for the music, Adrian Belew, Bill >Bruford and Tony Levin. From what I've seen (and Robert's remaining >in the dark means I see very little), Robert's input (on stage) seems >to be rather minimal. Fripp's physical movements on stage have always been at a minimal. That's the type of person he is. As for musical input, a good example of his input was on the Late Show with Conan O'Brien. His solo's on Dinosaur were exquisite. I also have to say that I don't go to Crimso shows just to see Fripp as well. I go to see the other members (especially Adrian and Bill) and for the music. The main point is that we're there for the music, and that's enough. --Jeremy ------------------------------ ************************************************** REMINDER: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk *************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:21:12 -0400 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: ET/KC Concert Two issues ago I stated, "How about an ET-only Crimson concert, in the NYC region ................. This would be a concert available only to those subscribing to ET. Not only could we be reasonably assured that our fellow ETers would not scream during the Dinosaur break (or shout "DID YOU?" during Indiscipline), KC could be free to do some things they might not otherwise try" to which it was replied....... >YES recently had 3 shows in San Loius Obispo that were intially advertised >to YES fans. These shows have been reported by those who attended as very >intimate productions. YES even strayed into territory that they have not >found themselves in for 20 years. Cool. Imagine King Crimson in this setting. My thought was something more involved--perhaps we could arrange the proper venue (for some reason, I'm thinking the Garden State Arts Center), and book a bunch of nearby hotel rooms for the out-of-towners. (With trips to nearby NYC for the uninitiated.) We could do some serious breaking-bread together and other such hanging out in conjunction. Eventually, we could make tickets avaible for the rank-and-file (if we didn't sell the venue out amongst ourselves). Again, how about it? Feel free to Email directly with your thought, and if there seems to be a strong response I'm willing to bring it up with KCs management. Of course, Toby would have to come--any plans on visiting NYC soon? -Emory. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 1996 10:30:33 -0600 From: "John Ott" Subject: RE-> Radiophonics RE:> Radiophonics >From: rattus at sprynet dot com >Subject: Thrak Attack >Thrak Attack is due out on June 24th in the U.S. Anyone know if the new >Fripp is available in the States yet? It's been available from Possible Productions since May 15, (i recieved mine on the 25th) along with Adrians GA0. I have not see Radiophonics in the stores yet. (I did see both 1999 and "Tears" at Tower) Both Radiophonics and Guitar As Orchestra are interesting if you are into guitar players. I like Radiophonics but it is a more demanding listen than Blessing of Tears. Adrian describes Guitar as Orchestra in the liner notes as good background for reading or driving. I would agree with him. Track Attack is available June 15 from Possible Productions, LOG is out now. I'll be ordering both soon. ( I highly recommend Possible Productions, great service) As to the post about the UK reunion and letting dinosaurs lie. I am looking forward to RF, BB, JW and EJ playing together. Last time these guys got together produced RED. (although Eddie Jobson only overdubbed some violin parts on that effort) I agree the mix on Chasing the Dragon is weak, but if you doubt John's voice check out Battle Lines (last studion release) or talk to someone that saw his recent solo acoustic tour. (I missed it because of an exam, drat) see ya john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:01:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: Two KC tix (DC/MD) for sale (fwd) Due to a miscommunication between me and my, um, 'purchasing agent', I've got two extra tickets to the King Crimson show at Merriwether Post Pavilion (in Maryland) on 8/25. THey're good seats -- row Y, orchestra, a little to the left of center as you face the stage. Cost me $44 apiece and that's what they'll cost you if you want them. Email if interested and we'll work out the details. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 96 14:44:03 EST From: bobg at nynexst dot com Subject: Crimson in NJ The Paramount Theater is in Asbury Park, NJ. As a matter of fact I saw Crimson there on 7/31/82 during the "Beat" tour. However, I still can't find a phone number for it. ------------------------------ From: MascariniRick Subject: LOG anecdote Date: Wed, 12 Jun 96 12:34:00 PDT Hello all, Stephen P. Goodman wrote in ET # 282: >In 1980-81, The League of Gentlemen played at a small club in A.P. >called The Fast Lane. It was on a Sunday during the summer. I've got a >nice story about this if noone's read it yet; but if anyone reading this >was at that show, it would be interesting to hear what you thought of >the show. I for one remember being blown away completely, and saying to >my friend later, "This is important," to quote the Dreyfus character in >Close Encounters. Ahh, The Fast Lane. Happily, I was there too. Sunday, July 2,1980. The LoG were in fact very powerful that evening, but, not as powerful as the next evening at the Bijou Cafe in Phila.Pa., where again I had the pleasure and opportunity to "bop" w/LoG. As a note to the Fast Lane show in Asbury Park, NJ, We (my wife and I) were standing in line outside the venue (within the first 20-25 folks waiting for the club to open it's doors) when a few moments before the scheduled opening of the club (I think it may have been 7PM) the doors opened and who should appear but Robert himself sporting coat and umbrella, setting out for an early evening's stroll, headed east toward the boardwalk that runs along the beach about two blocks away. First, people started to whisper (as they do) and then point (as they must) and even some, if I remember correctly, started to follow. All the while, Robert smiled, said nothing, and walked off at a brisk pace. Once inside, as everyone was getting ready for the evenings performance, both Barry Andrews and Robert appeared through the crowd and headed to the bar for a quaff. This all happened just as we were doing the same and as I was waiting to the bartender to satisfy my order, I turned to Robert to offer a 'Hello' and to say "thanks for all the great music/moments" - Wrong! (not sure what I was thinking back then, but anyway, I was much younger, and we'll leave it at that!) Well, Robert wants no part of it! Doesn't say a word but starts to shake his head left to right to left to right and continues to chat with Mr. Andrews (and maybe others - it was dark) Also, I think others may have been trying to gain his attention at the bar as well. All in all though, one hella-va show by the LoG. I fully agree with Stephen P.Goodman - "This is important" ..... Regards, RMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 17:54:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Dixie Gene Ross Subject: THE ROCK & RADIOPHONICS Greetings, I saw a movie last week that I think Crimheads would enjoy. THE ROCK, featuring two of my favorites, Sean Connery and Nicolas Cage. A real adrenalin pumper. While watching the movie I couldn't help but think how the sound track would have been better with some Fripp soundscapes to increase the emotional undercurrent and to intensify the suspense. Maybe someone like Stanley Kubrick would utilize Fripp's soundscapes. Could be riveting! RADIOPHONICS - I love it. Fripp takes soundscapes in an all new direction, and like other Fripp soundscapes/ Frippertronics/ Fripp & Eno it's great for meditation. Looking forward to THE GATES OF PARADISE, Dick Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:02:32 -0400 From: JimKlo at aol dot com Subject: the usual suspects I have noticed that many fellow KC lovers enjoy some of their more evil material. I just bought a CD that many of you may enjoy. It is the soundtrack to the movie The Usual Suspects. The movie was exceptional(my vote for best picture of 1995) and so is the soundtrack. It is all orchestral, and was written by a man named John Ottman. At times it reminds me of Stravinsky or Dvorak, or other early 20th century composers. I still have not gotten deeply into the music, but I can not wait until I do. Joshua Klocek "Never underestimate the power of the force" ------------------------------ ************************************************** REMINDER: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk *************************************************** ------------------------------ From: David Maclennan Subject: THRaK aTTaK and other musings Date: 13 Jun 1996 13:39:57 +1300 A friend of mine in the UK sent me a Gentle Giant tape, on which he also included a good chunk of THRaK aTTaK. As it's not going to be released in NZ for a few weeks more yet I was pleased to get a taster. My opinion? To coin a phrase, I LIKE IT!! Seriously intense stuff. This is a KC album that will sort out the men from the boys (and the women from the girls). I've always preferred the more extreme side of KC myself, so I just know I'll be thrashing this album bigtime when I finally lay my hands on the CD. I suspect this album will polarise KC fans like no other since "Earthbound". BTW, interesting to see some posts about this album. I've always rather liked it. When it first came out my friends and I got our favourite record dealer to play it in the shop one busy Thursday night. After about five minutes of "Schizoid Man" he was pleading for one of us to buy it so he could take it off! It's the best record I know for clearing a party, even a party of KC fans. Put it on, crank the sucker up, and off they go! Incidentally, whatever became of plans for "Earthbound II"? I see this has dropped off the DGM forthcoming releases lists. Anyone from DGM or PossProds care to enlighten us? I see also that "Islands" has raised its head again. I've always regarded this as the most underrated KC album. I absolutely love it. One feature of it which AFAIK no one other than myself has raised on this list, is the fact that it is almost entirely acoustic - KC Unplugged! Ahead of their time as usual. As for people grizzling about what old stuff the current lineup might play, I have absolutely no problem with them playing "Schizoid Man" (hell, it is KC's signature tune, almost!) or for that matter anything else from their back catalog. I'd far rather they raid the early 70s albums than the early 80s ones any day. And be thankful you can see them live at all! Those of us down here in the arse-end of the world have never had the pleasure in the entire quarter century-plus of the band's on-off existence, and it doesn't look like we're going to this year either. All we can do is read the gig reviews in ET.... David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 19:17:02 -0700 From: Print_Future01 at Douglas dot BC dot CA (Trent Ernst) Subject: 21csm again Nope. Don't like it. Don't like it at all. If King Crimson is playing old tunes then they should be shot. Hell, if they don't compose EVERY SINGLE BIT OF MUSIC ON THE SPOT, then why bother? Or am I being sarcastic? Trent Ernst (trente at vcn dot bc dot ca) writer designer editor Other Press Editorial Resource Director, Men in Black Productions ------------------------------ From: ernie at pananet dot com (Ernesto Schnack) Subject: Dave Matthews Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 22:58:50 -0400 I just thought I'd mention something I came across on an interview w/ Dave Matthews. It turns out that he admires Fripp very much 'because he doesn't imitate anybody'. Also, he came up w/ the main riff to his song 'Satellite' after watching a friend of his, who was on the League of Crafty Guitarists. He says, he came up w/ it beacuse he was jealous of what they were doing. And if I am correct, DMB is also playing on the HORDE festival.... hmmmm..maybe Dave will be watching from backstage when KC plays... Funky Cold Medina Ernie :) ------------------------------ Subject: KC on Radio, Midwest KC dates?, the full quote .... Greetings ETers: Both "Dinosaur" and "Walking on Air" got fairly good rotation at the local college station, WNMC (Northwestern Michigan College) last summer. As I no longer live or work within their humble broadcasting range, I rarely get the opportunity to listen anymore and don't know if they've been playing anything currently or not. Also, a few months ago I heard an excerpt of (I believe) "One Time" as a part of NPR's "Morning Edition". I for one sure hope KC will be doing some Midwestern shows other than HORDE. How about it? Not all of us have the wherewithal to get to one of the higher ranking coasts (And it appears we're in the process of being demoted from Third Coast to Fourth Coast. 'Tis such a cruel world ...). Lovely what can be done with a pair of mishandled scissors. This is the full quotation ... Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 00:51:53 -0400 From: "Mark A. Luedi" To: progsoc at guildford dot cafenet dot co dot uk Subject: Is KC prog or art ??? > The question: Is KING > CRIMSON music "progressive" or "art rock", What if it's ... _both_?! And what if it's _neither_?! What does it matter? ------------------------ Subject: THRaKaTTaK Date: 96-06-11 04:32:00 EDT From: userid at sgh dot waw dot pl (userid) This album is simply impossible to hear. I wonder, whether the musicians cannot see that probably no one but them likes such a stuff. Maybe some of them dislike this kind of... music, too. Very boring album, it's not worth any money. Well, I think that some medieval alchemists' dream: transforming money into - excusez le mot - a piece of shit, is now a reality - just go to the nearby record shop and spend your money buying THRaKaTTaK. It's really hard to write such heavy words for me, 'cause I AM King Crimson enthusiast - but I must say that their last album that is really worth hearing is - "Red". Oh, I've almost forgotten "THRAK" - yeah, that's quite good, too. I've got an advice for the group members, especially Mr. Fripp - hey, make some orchestral arrangements, change your name for The Stravinskis and perform these pieces at the Warsaw Autumn Festival with the Kronos Quartet or something even more MODERN and hard to understand. I'd say that this album is their greatest mistake - even greater then "Discipline", "Beat" and "ToaPP". Maybe I should also add something about KC's Warsaw concert (June 7th). The first hour of the show was really great (TD, LTiA part 2, Red, Frame By Frame, Dinosaur and Schizoid Man). But after the Schizoid Man they started to play that STRANGE stuff - Indiscipline, Thela Hun Bleble and some drum improvizations. I think some of the listeners tried to run from the concert hall. They ended with Matte Kudesai and VROOM - only these two pieces impressed me during the second hour. And also Fripp's behaviour in Warsaw seemed to be, well, strange. He escaped from the journalists, he didn't appear at the press conference, and - though it was their FIRST concert in Poland - he didn't say a word during the concert and didn't thank for the HUGE applause after the performance. I was really sorry - because I love him as a composer and a musician. Pozdrawiam, trzymajta sie chlopaki ! (some warm words in Polish) Peter Zlotkowski (hmm, I use someone other's - my sister's - account) ------------------------- ************************************************** REMINDER: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk *************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Riesz, Ferenc" Subject: Re: Special gig for ETers..:))) >From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" >Subject: Special ET/Crimson Gig dream > >How about [...] a concert available only to those >subscribing to ET. Not only could we be reasonably assured that our fellow >ETers would not scream during the Dinosaur break (or shout "DID YOU?" during >Indiscipline), KC could be free to do some things they might not otherwise try. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ E.g., we would hear Mr. Fripp soloing, or saying "Good evening, ETers !", or they would play Lizard or what do you mean....:)))) RF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:49:49 +0100 From: brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de (Alex) Subject: Earthbound In the last edition of ET, Les Labbauf wrote about the Earthbound album. I can only agree - Earthbound is superb. Yes, the sound quality, I know, but with an album like THAT, who cares about sound quality? I'm one of the lucky owners of the Earthbound album and it's definitely the gem in my collection. It's definitely my favourite KC album and it even more definitely contains the best version of Schizoid Man ever released. > Mr. Fripp, if you are listening I hope that if there is more from this > manifestation of CRIMSON that you would make some available to those who > would appreciate it. I can only join this call. Maybe if there's enough people who scream out those words, somebody will respond. Let's hope for the best! Alex Brugger alex dot brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de http://www.physik.uni-erlangen.de/hi/ab/ab1.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jun 1996 07:46:28 -0700 From: "Jim Bricker" Subject: The Portable Great Deceiver Greetings! To those of you fortunate to own TGD box set (and to those of you who dig 73-74 Crimso and don't own it yet... call Possible Productions NOW!) I wanted to share with you my cassette versions of the CDs. My goal was to create two "best of class" KC shows of that era, using all the tracks available from the box set. So if you have the need for a portable TGD for your driving and Crimming pleasure, I suggest the following configuration onto two 90 minute tapes. Though I don't mention which CDs/tracks I've taped, the progression and flow should be evident to those TGD owners... TAPE ONE/Side A ...walk on - No Pussyfooting Lark's Tongues in Aspic, pt 2 The Golden Walnut improv - The Night Watch Fracture Easy Money ... it is for you but not for us (+ RF's comment to George about flipping the tape) TAPE ONE/Side B improv - Tight Scrummy Peace (a theme) Cat Food Doctor Diamond Starless improv - Wilton Carpet The Talking Drum Lark's Tongues in Aspic, pt 2 (abridged) TAPE TWO/Side A ...walk on - No Pussyfooting Lark's Tongues in Aspic, pt 1 improv - Bartley Butsford Exiles improv - Daniel Dust The Night Watch improv - A Voyage to the Centre of the Cosmos TAPE TWO/Side B Lament improv - Providence Fracture Starless 21st Century Schizoid Man walk off... No Pussyfooting Please note that the taping was done for my personal use, and that do I not dub or distribute or sell any copies. Hope you can get some enjoyment from this. Looking forward to KC at the Greek in Berkeley!!! Regards - - Jim Bricker, San Jose CA. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:34:51 -0400 From: Lawrence Raniere Subject: KC plays Asbury Park Hello. The recent announcement of KC's return to Asbury Park, NJ, has prompted me to relate this rather odd KC anecdote to the readership. I grew up a few miles from Asbury Park, and would often attend the local bar and music scene there. In around 1980, I was at a small place called "The Quack-Quack", about a half a block from The Stone Pony (where Bruce Springsteen "got his start"), when myself and a fellow bar patron (Bob) went outside to sample a doober. Going behind the bar, we went into the back of the property of a club facing the opposite side of the block. This club was The Hullabaloo, and was in the process of being demolished. As we continued sampling, we wandered through the ruins, and we came to a wall which seemed to be freshly knocked through that same day, and which was apparently near what used to be the front door. I reached down and pulled out a newspaper page from maybe the 1960s, which was well preserved. While I examined this relic, Bob reached in a few feet away and pulled out what looked like a ticket. Upon closer examination, it was an unripped ticket - not just a stub, but a whole perfectly-preserved ticket - of a King Crimson/Black Oak Arkansas show at The Hullabaloo from (as I recall) 1974! We postulated that wall was near the ticket window, being in the front of the building, and the ticket had somehow gotten stuck under the molding of the wall, or had slipped through a crack in the wall to get inside and remain pristine until we came upon it. Of course, I could barely control my excitement, and offered Bob (who was not a King Crimson fan) $50, then $100 for the ticket, which was a lot in 1980. He refused, annoyingly. I only really knew him from The Quack-Quack, and on subsequent sightings of him over the next few months, I continued my offer of payment, but he always refused. I always thought that was a strange double bill - King Crimson and Black Oak Arkansas. I'm not sure who was the headliner (you would like to think that it was KC), but I do seem to remember that "Black Oak Arkansas" appeared first on the ticket, but had letters the same size as "King Crimson". Enjoy! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 12:53:11 +0000 From: David Kirkdorffer Organization: little a Subject: New Crimson Tour Dates Cruising around Tony Levin's Papa Bear site I came across a few new King Crimson US dates. Voila! David Kirkdorffer http://users.aol.com/sayaaahh/main.htm AMERICA July 24 - Las Vegas - The Joint/Hard Rock Cafe July 26 - San Francisco - Greek Theatre July 27 - Los Angeles - Greek Theatre *July 29 - Santa Barbara - Ventura Theatre (NEW DATE) July 30 - San Diego - Summer Pops Series August 2,3 - Mexico City - Metropolitan Theatre August 6 - Monterey, MX - Auditorio Coca-Cola HORDE TOUR - August 8-23.....SUBJECT TO CHANGES... August 8 - Kansas City - Sandstone Amph. August 9 - St. Louis - Riverport Amph. August 10 - Nashville - Starwood Amph. August 11 - Cincinnati - Riverbend August 13 - Pittsburgh - Starlake Amph. August 15 - Boston - Great Woods August 16 - New York - Randall's Island *August 17 - Hartford - Meadows (NEW DATE) August 18 - Saratoga - SPAC August 20 - Buffalo - Darien Lake *August 22 - Portland, ME - Sea PAC (NEW DATE) *August 23 - Hershey, PA - Hershey Park (NEW DATE) August 24 - Asbury Park, NJ - Paramount Theater August 25 - Columbia, MD - Merriweather Post August 26 - Philadelphia - Mann Centre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 20:29:12 +0200 From: Philipp Quaet-Faslem Subject: Wanna Get Crafty? Hi there! I reckon there might be people on this earth who do not live in Argentina but do have a strong interest to participate in an Guitar Craft Level One Course. So my aim is to find those people and collect their names and addresses so that we might have a chance to get a course in Europe or at least in the USA. So if you are interested or know of others who might be, please contact me, so we can try to get a nice bunch of people. Please include your email or your postal address and your country/state. My address: Philipp Quaet-Faslem I Telephone: +49 521/895907 Gustav-Freytag-Str. 6 I D-33613 Bielefeld I Email: Germany I peqf at hrz dot uni-bielefeld dot de Greetings and enjoy KC on their tour. Philipp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 19:18:49 -0400 From: Nel3 at aol dot com Subject: jazz nerve struck; nerve strikes back... I feel compelled to respond to the comments of David Ewing who seems to equate me with some legion of uneducated, jazz-less listeners. Hear me now - believe me later, when I tell you that I have listened to SOME jazz - in fact it represents about 50% of my 700+ cd's and tapes - and trust me when I tell you it ain't Kenny G that I listen to.... A few points of clarity, then concerning my previous post: 1) Just because I used the words "chord-less improv" doesn't mean I thought all jazz must have chords. 2) There still seems to be, on the part of free jazz devotees (of whom I must assume Mr. Ewing is one), a smug elitism that free jazz represents the logical end to which jazz must aspire. I believe that, like other forms of jazz and for that matter rock, most music put out under a particular genre is dreck - only about 5-10% achieves some lasting impression, the rest is usually an attempt to capitalize on a "fad." Surely the most obvious example is how fusion degerated during the 70's to the point that it's a dirty word among many in jazz circles. So it is with free jazz - though it may have represented a breakthrough into a different area and one that eventually threw out all chords and modes, played between the notes and times, etc. - despite what many of its ardent admirers thought, it did not denegrate that which came before - and music played in bop, post-bop or modal styles since the breakthrough is not retrenchement. 3) Anyone who listens to Wayne Shorter deconstruct melodies in his solos down to the nearly molecular level can see that his is simply a different approach to the canvas. IMHO, Ornette, Coltrane and others of his ilk see the canvas as a blank white space to be filled completely with their paint, whereas the Miles Quintet of 64-69 saw the canvas as not existing outside the space of their notes or outside the space which they have placed between their notes - and no one in jazz used space like this group to the point where the space and silence between notes BECOMES the notes as well. 4) Which brings me to KC, while none can deny that space IS present in their 73-74 music, I do not see a DIRECT connection between jazz improv and this band - the group was certainly more about classical atonalities and Cage-like nuances. They certainly understood jazz (BB's obvious roots no doubt a contributing factor). But, if one MUST attribute their style to some kind of free jazz so that it can be elevated in one's mind, then one would have to avoid likening it to the "energy music" of Coltrane and Ayler and choose the icy, chamber-music-like, European ECM-style free jazz practiced by the likes of Keith Jarrett, Ralph Towner, Dave Holland and Kenny Wheeler (hmmm, perhaps a connection here?). 5) So that no one is confused by this diatribe, one last point regarding the 73-74 KC - as I said in my previous post, IT IS GREAT MUSIC! 6) Gee, I seem to have taken a verbal pool cue to Mr. Ewing - evidently he struck a bit of a nerve... ------------------------------ ************************************************** REMINDER: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk *************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Paul Gelpi Subject: "Schizoid Man" -- A Slight Reprise I know that this is now bordering on an overworked subject but in regards to whether King Crimson should reprise older material I offer the following. Upon reading a posting in a recent ET concerning the performance of "21st Century Schizoid Man" in which the writer wished that KC wouldn't--I'm para- phrasing here--revisit material from incarnations past, I was to say the least astonished. I am estatic that KC have decided to add the song to the set and I will have a chance to hear it this summer--hopefully they will reprise it 10 August in Nashville--for two reasons. First, it is a personal favorite, espec- ially as rendered by Bruford, Cross, Fripp, and Wetton. Second, to hear Belew and the double trio's interpretation of the composition. To all ETers who do not want "21st Century" on the set list my point is this: songs/compositions are living entities not the musical equivalent of the spoken Latin language or the Dodo bird. They are not immutable constructs but are open to interpretat- ion, as almost any blues, folk, or jazz musician will acknowledge, along with more than a few pop singers and rock musicians. In the odious form of Top 40 "covers" an artists rendition can be abysmal but KC playing "Red," Starless," or "Sleepless" no more represents them performing a "cover" than it does them delivering a greatest hits package, which they are not doing. Rather they are reinterpretating a composition, something they do every time they run through "Dinosaur" or "Sex..." Also, because the material was written over twenty years ago does not mean that KC is rehashing its past, stagnating creatively, or ignoring new material, for much of the new material--particularly "Vroom" and "Thrak"--pick up sonically and artistically where "Red" left off. More- over, the freshness and vitality of songs like "Red' and "Lark's Tongue" as interpretated by the double trio--if there are any doubters than some people must still need to listen to the "B'Boom" CD--in addition to the fact that Fripp and company are still exploring much of the same musical ground on new compositions only vividly illustrates what many more people than I have said before: that KC has always been ahead of the curve musically, as they still are. On a different note, for years Bill Bruford has been listed as having played on Genesis' "Three Sides Live" LP (see for instance a 1984-85 Downbeat interview) but the U.S. release had studio outtakes on the 4th side (hence the title) rather than any live recording with BB while the European version contained additional live material instead (why the same title--who knows). The 1995 remastered CD, however, omits the "Paperlate" EP and "Duke" outtakes in favor of the live material from the import version including material culled from the short 1976 tour with BB on drums. ------------------------------ GIG REVIEWS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:17:31 +0100 From: GW Subject: Short review: KC in Cologne A few impression of the KC-gig in Cologne on Sunday, 9th of June: - Open air at the rhine river, beautiful weather (perhaps a little bit too hot for the musicians). - Audience: really _all_sorts_ of people, aged from 14 to 60, many from Holland, Belgium etc. I met some ET-readers (Hi !). - My place: standing in the second row, middle of the stage, just in front of A.B.'s monitor. A guardian told us not to smoke in the first rows. - California Guitar Trio: Very good ! Appearance too short (only 20 minutes). Somebody shouted 'Toccata !', but they played Beethoven instead ..:-) - KC: Set similar to the Bordeaux-Gig. I missed Matte Kudasei and LTIA II, but got The Sheltering Sky, Waiting Man and THG instead. - Old and new tunes harmonized very well together (like the old and new fans in the audience did ... :-) - 20st CSM was hot. Okay, it was not designed for A.B.'s voice, but I liked it. Interesting to watch T.L. playing the bassline with Funk Fingers. - THRAK took me by surprise with a new, free-jazz-like improvised middlesection. I wish KC would do a lot more of this unexpected, surprising elements in their shows. You don't now where the music takes you to. That's what a live concert is about ! - Watching the two drummers was like watching tennis: left-right-left-right ... a fascinating pair. - T.L. took some photos. From the stage he directed a pocket-camera towards the audience. He also took some 'secret' photos of the audience with a 'real' camera from behind the right mixer (In this moment I took a photo of him too ... so that leaves us even, Tony .... ;-) - They played the gig without any breaks and with no announcements. Seemed to be a little bit reserved. But why ? Okay, T.L. was charming, and the others may have had problems with the hot weather. It's the music that counts, and the music was great. The audience really had a lot of fun, and I hope the musicians had a little bit, too. - THRaKaTTaK: I bought this record there. It's amazing. Just the kind of stuff I loved to hear at this show. It is definitely not the right album for somebody who is new to KC. But it is a lovely present for all KC enthusiasts. What other 'Rock Bands' would make such a record for their fans ? As long as KC has the courage and the spirit to do things like that, I think there is no danger that KC becomes another of these 'we are our own coverband' - acts. So I'm looking forward to the gig in Dortmund on Thursday, 13th of June. And watch up boys, this time my wife will be with me ... Ciao GW removed at users dot request / removed at users dot request / removed at users dot request ------------------------------ From: jkertz at rzws dot fh-aalen dot de Subject: KC in Nuremberg Date: Wed, 12 Jun 96 07:52:37 +0200 Last night was the final KC-gig for me on this tour and a very good one, too. When I drove into Nuremberg I was highly surprised by the amount of posters all over the city announcing the concert of the year. As I like the live-picture and there was some time before the hall opened I got one and brought it back to the car. At 8pm the show commenced with the marvellous California Guitar Trio, whose cross-steps during the last piece, which they perform standing, caused some laughter in the audience. Although the 2500-seat hall was far from being sold out the audience boiled from minute 1. Also the sound was much better this time than in Mannheim, at least on the balcony (interesting that when Adrian Belews voice was far too high in the mix at the beginning of Dinosaur he gave a quick sign to the sound engineer at the right of the stage, who immediately fixed it). The setlist was as follows: Talking Drum Larks Tongues Dinosaur Matte Kudesai VROOOM VROOOM B'Boom THRAK Waiting Man Neurotica 21st Century Schizoid Man Sheltering Sky People Elephant Talk Indiscipline ------------------------- Prism Red ------------------------- VROOOM Especially good were this time: -Larks Tongues with a good solo from Adrian Belew -THRAK featuring sounds like from a zoo on stage (my neighbor said "I can't stand this", which is a good sign, isn't it?) -Prism, the Drum Trio Mastelotto-Bruford-Belew so committed even Pat Matelotto loses one of his drumsticks Jan Kertzscher Germany ------------------------------ From: "Riesz, Ferenc" Subject: Comments on the Warsaw show Cc: Marcin Gokieli 'Frankie' Hello ! Marcin has posted an excellent review on the Warsaw gig, so I have only a few comments. >[...] The California Guitar Trio did a wonderful gig, >and got a well deserved applause. They started with 'Yamanashi blues', and playe >d their wonderful guitar music for about 40 minutes. It was EXACTLY 30 min...:)) they played Toccata and fugue in d minor by Bach as well which was a pleasant surprise for all of us... >After 15 minutes of break, Crimson appeared. >They started with Talking Drum. >Then came LTIA II. Talking drum was painfully short !!! It seemed to me that Pat did not find his place in these songs, while Bill looked very happy. For me Red, Schizoid man and The sheltering sky were the finest moments of the show. Red was incredible !!! They played it with full energy...no words can tell... Schizoid man was good, the band really enjoyed the performance. The auidence's reaction was frenetic ! The sheltering sky featured an excellent, but short :(( Fripp solo, while Bill was just walking around with his strange percussion box. What was surprising for me is the total ignorance of ToaPP. I would have been happy to hear e.g. Industry or LTiA 3. Also, I would have been delighted to hear such old songs like Sailor's tale and Easy money. IMHO they could fit the program well. Encores were--if I remember well--: an interesting percussion trio by the two drummers and Adrian, VROOOM, THG and Matte Kudasai. THG, although not really my favorite, was quite crazy ! It was interesting to observe the different behavior of the band members. Robert was just sitting on his chair, making only the most necessary movements. Bill was always very happy, smiling all the time, apparently he enjoyed the show very much. Adrian behaved like a 'front man' but did not make any allures. Trey's behavior was little surprising for me. Maybe it's his normal attitude, but he looked as feeling uncomfortable or embarrassed. Tony enjoyed the show very much. In general, the whole show was perfect and smooth. Only on Matte Kudasai, there was problem with Adrian's voices' loudspeaker. The lighting was good, well suited to the mood of the songs (on Red, the band members were lighted with red lights...it was very memorable...). I fully agree with those who miss 'improvisation' (or variations) from recent KC gigs. In Warsaw, only Thrak, Indiscipline and The sheltering sky were those songs that exhibited some new inventions. There was also an extremely short, however beautiful Frippertronics fragment and a drum duet. It's indeed very sad that almost no solos could be heard from one of the most excellent guitarists in the world... If one listens to Easy money on USA...or Schizoid man or Salior's tale on Earthbound...what happened ? Schizoid man or The sheltering sky could have been excellent opportunity to add something extra... * * * Thanks to Marcin for buying the ticket for me and having my company while in Warsaw. There was a certain 'Crimson feeling' floating around the city...the radio was broadcasting lots of Crimson, and when the day after the gig I visited some CD shops (I bought The bridge between and A blessing of tears...:)), in one of them, B'Boom was on while in the other, a vivid discussion was continued on the gig... Looking forward to the Budapest show... RF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 11:20:06 +0200 To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk From: Jacek Czajka Subject: Great Gig in Warsaw Hi all, I have some informations about crimson`s concert in Congress Hall - Warsaw: Band played about 2 hours. Sound was clear and excellent, not too loud. Setlist: The Talking Drum LTiA II Frame by Frame Dinosaur One Time Red Soundscapes Thrack + improv. 21-st CSM Waiting Man Neurotica The Sheltering Sky SSEDD Elephant Talk Indiscipline Bonus: 3 drumers ( Bruford, Mastelotto, Belew ) THG Thrack I think it was one of tthe most beautiful days of my life. Best regards Jacek Czajka --- Jacek Czajka mailto:czajka at merkury dot atm dot com dot pl ATM Ltd. Netscape Communications Distribution Division ul. Grochowska 21a fax. +48 (22) 610 41 44 04-186 Warszawa, POLAND tel. +48 (22) 612 30 20 http://www.atm.com.pl ext.211 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 14:26:43 +0100 From: brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de (Alex) To: TOBY at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Gig review Nuremberg, Germany, June 11th 1996 / --contains SPOILERS-- Hi Everyone! The Schiziod Man is back on stage!!! Most people I talked to after the show agreed that this was THE surprise of the evening; I don't know too much about the other shows in Europe 1996 but as far as I know they have played the Schiziod Man neither last year nor in the Eighties which makes it a stage debut after some 22 years.... But lets start at the beginning. I've seen KC in Munich last year in May and I wasn't too sure whether I should expect too different a show this time. Well, to cut things short - it was WAY different, talking both the setlist and the arrangements of the songs. It was absolutely astonighing to see how much the band has developed since last year - this time they PLAYED whereas last year they played their songs, if you know what I mean. This includes things like revised/improved arrangements for many songs, a lot more improvisation than last year (B'Boom/THRAK totalling to 15(!) minutes must be mentioned), a light show that deserves the name and even more overwhelming drumming, e.g. Bill & Pat both playing on Bill's set in the beginning of Waiting Man, Bill accompanying The Sheltering Sky with a kind of a wooden African Drum only, walking about the stage whilst doing so, and even a (for me) completely new percussion solo called Prism which was played by Bill, Pat and Adrian(!!!). I read Michael Peters' review of the Cologne gig and was a bit surprised that he mentioned KC playing more or less the same stuff as last year. I don't know what they played in Duesseldorf last year but in Nuremberg they played quite some songs I hadn't heard last time. Well, let's not waste too many words - here's what KC did on Tuesday: The Talking Drum Larks' Tongues pt. II Dinosaur Matte Kudasai VROOOM VROOOM B'Boom/THRAK Waiting Man Neurotica 21st Century Schiziod Man (!!!!) The Sheltering Sky People (isn't it sooo much better live than on the album???) Elephant Talk Indiscipline ------------------- Prism Red ------------------- VROOOM (total about 105 min) Songs we haven't heard last year: Waiting Man, Neurotica, Schizoid Man, Sheltering Sky & Prism. Songs I missed: Sex Sleep..., Frame by Frame, Thela Hun Ginjeet, Discipline. (.....and of course the one and only 'Starless'......SIGH!) All in all it was once again a superb concert experience, as everyone who saw KC shows in this decade will no doubt agree. Last year's show was stunning - this year's show was even more spectacular. Remaining questions: What'll expect me at Hamburg's open air performance tommorrow? And will I EVER have the luck to attend a KC show including Thela Hun Ginjeet (one of my favourite songs) and Discipline? Alex Brugger alex dot brugger at physik dot uni-erlangen dot de http://www.physik.uni-erlangen.de/hi/ab/ab1.html ------------------------------ From: GW To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: KC in Dortmund I've just returned from my second KC-Gig (Dortmund, Westfalenpark, 13th of June). Just a few remarks: - Open air in a park, blue skies, sunshine, but much colder than in Cologne last Sunday. - Not_too_much attended, there was enough space to walk around and sit on the grass. - My place: sitting on the fence of the soundboard. Not so close to the musicians as in Cologne, but better sound. - California Guitar Trio: Again very good ! Appearance again too short (28 minutes). This time they didn't play Beethoven again. - T.L. again took some photos. BTW: two of the photos he took in Cologne are on his web-site now ! - KC: Set quite the same as in Cologne. Thrak again with exciting improvisations. A funny drum-trio (B.B., P.M. and A.B. (!)) as encore. Vroom, Vroom Vroom and Red shredded the leaves of the trees ... 2 Encores. Gig again too short ... But there`s no need to waste much words, one word is enough to describe this concert: perfect ! Even my wife liked it ;-) I hope that this has not been the last KC-tour. That would be really sad. Ciao GW removed at users dot request / removed at users dot request / removed at users dot request ------------------------------ ************************************************** REMINDER: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk *************************************************** ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #283 ********************************