From et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot ukMon Jun 17 06:46:52 1996 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:15:06 GMT From: Elephant Talk Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: bulkmail at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #282 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 282 Tuesday, 11 June 1996 Today's Topics: ET Admin Help required - London gig Acoustic Bruford KC Cleveland '73 anyone? 21st Century Unofficial Bill Bruford discography page KC in Dortmund - confusion Tour Reviews & using SPOILER in the subject line again, please. Thrak Attack ON release re: Y not 21CSM? "Do The Ears have Walls?!" ET Only Crimson Concert Earthbound Bootleg, Who Cares! More William Bruford stuff... LD of upcoming video? Untie and Unlatch re: UK reviled improv comparrisons Re: Elephant Talk Digest #281 VH1's irresponsibility Re: Crim Playing Older Material Many Thanks Madrid set list - Anyone? T.Levin on Fossati "Macrame" Why we go to KC concerts Chordless improvisation Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx old songs are cool :) Adrian Belew's NEW album re- tour dates Returned mail: User unknown ET submission: Small Fripp anecdote VH1's irresponsibility ET Newsletter GIG REVIEWS (including spoilers) AWWWAAGGGHHHRZAATTTATATATAAMMMM!!!!!!! (Gig review: Warsaw, Open Air Cologne ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: Send a message with a body of 'help' to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorrfer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Toby Subject: ET Admin Hi, just a couple of things. The biggee is that I want to say thanks to Ken Bibb, until recently the USA list administrator for ET, for all the years of selfless effort he's put into the smooth running of ET. I know all ETers will want to thank him too, for helping to get ET into their mailboxes. It was a great plesure working with Ken, and ET wouldn't be what it is today without him. Whoa! This sounds like he's died, doesn't it? No, he hasn't! He's just become busy with other projects and felt the need to step down from ET. Ken, we salute you. We have reorganised the ET list administration, which is now handled by Mike Dickson and several million lines of Pascal, to whom and which we're very grateful. Welcome to the team, Mike. I'd like to take this chance to thank all the ET readers who offered their services to help with the new centralised ET admin. I'm sorry I couldn't respond to everyone personally. It's nice to say thanks. Just one other point: The Ayn Rand stuff is now officially Off-Topic. Best wishes to everyone Toby ------------------------------ From: "Ian McKay" Organization: S.A.C. Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 14:41:21 0000 Subject: Help required - London gig Hi there, I'm coming down to London from Aberdeen for the KC gig on 1st July. Does anyone know of a good cheap hotel or guest house either near the Shepherds Bush Empire or somewhere within easy travelling (Bus or Tube) distance. I will not have a lot of time before the gig as I arrive at Kings Cross station around 5.45pm. Any help would be appreciated. Reply by private e-mail please. May see some of you at the gig. Ian McKay ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 96 16:38:28 CET From: Marcin Gokieli Subject: Acoustic Bruford Hello everyone, I just came back from a crimso press conference. Bill said he would record an a coustic album in october... :-) :-)) :-))) Keep on hunting for the snark, Marcin Gokieli (marfrank at plearn dot edu dot pl) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 10:14:45 -0500 (EST) From: STEPHEN LAUB Subject: KC Cleveland '73 anyone? Noticed a new bCD is now around of the KC Cleveland '73 show. Anyone heard this or willing to trade with me? I have LOTS of audio/video to offer from an eclectic variety. I recently received Fripp/Eno '75 London Paladium (not Paris) to offer. Looking forward to KC here in San Diego 7/30! (wipe drool) Steve sfl at lilly dot com (for a short while longer) From: LAUB STEPHEN F (HYBVAX::QCSFL) To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk") cc: LAUB STEPHEN F (HYBVAX::QCSFL) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 09:51:45 +0100 From: ggc Subject: 21st Century First for all of you Bay Area fans the KC date at the Greek Theatre is tentatively scheduled to go on sale on Sunday June 16th at 10am Pacific time. 510-762-2277 or 408-998-2277 in Cal. 1-800 225-2277 outside Cal. The Greek is a beautiful outdoor venue on the Cal Berkeley Campus. A truly wonderful venue. Normally there is a very limited number of reserved seats down front followed by the vast majority of the venue being GA thereafter. Many of the reserved seats in the front are off to the side as they form a semi-circle around the stage. Excellent seats can be had at a significant savings by getting on line early with GA seats and grabbing the first couple of rows next to the soundboard. These seats are better than a number of the reserved seats off to the side. Having seen numerours Dead shows here, I hop the improv energy is alive and well on this night. As for the revivial of 21st Century, Bring it on. I have never understood the logic of not performing masterpieces penned in previous eras, especcially if one of the band members wrote it. I am always ecstatic when one of my favorite performers covers a tune that has meaning to him/her or them. I've heard many a band rework songs to turn a masterpiece into another one. Since I touched on the Dead earlier, live versions of Friend of the Devil is a perfect example. If KC ever decided to bust out Cat Food or Rupert etc..I would love it. E-mail me for a seating chart of the Greek at dsmrngdo at aol dot com ------------------------------ From: "Lefferts, Jeff" Subject: Unofficial Bill Bruford discography page Date: Fri, 07 Jun 96 15:35:00 PDT I invite everyone to check out my Bill Bruford discography page at: http://www.tohu-bohu.com/bruford/ There you'll find my list of released material Bill appears on. It also has scans of most of the albums, some MPEG audio sound samples, as well as my subjective opinions. I have not included unofficial releases, and I don't intend to mention compilations or singles unless they're noteworthy or have new material. I'm sure I'm still missing some stuff, please email me at jeph at tohu-bohu dot com If you have suggestions or additions. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 19:20:21 +0100 From: GW Subject: KC in Dortmund - confusion I have tickets for the KC-gigs in Cologne (June 9th) and Dortmund (June 13th). I just read this in the new 'letter from Tony' (PapaBear website): > Hello from Warsaw. The tour is going quite well - shows in France, Spain and > Germany were all well received. > In Lyon we stayed in the Cour des Loges, at the center of the old city - > very nice. As usual, we've had some small disasters within the show, > most noteably in Dortmund when my setlist told me the final encore > was "Vrooom Vrooom" but the rest of the band was playing "Vrooom" > which is quite a different piece, (...) And now I'm a bit confused ... has KC already been in Dortmund ?!?? Or has Tony just exchanged 'Dortmund' and 'Mannheim' by mistake !?? Ciao Gerd W. P.S. It's a bit too late, but nevertheless: Happy Birthday Robert & Tony! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 15:51:45 -0500 From: David Kirkdorffer <" SayAaahh"@aol.com> Subject: Tour Reviews & using SPOILER in the subject line again, please. It's summertime and King Crimson is touring again. And, gig reviews will likely become a notable part of ET -- what a wonderful archive of events they can be. But gig reviews often contain information (set lists for example) removing surprize and a sense of "spontaneous discovery." So, can we adopt a helpful practice from last year? Namely, making sure to add SPOILER to the Subject Line of gig-review postings. Also Toby, is it possible to sort reviews/spoilers to the bottom of each ET? This too was very helpful to me last year. [ Yes, this will now happen -- Toby ] David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 18:45:06 -0700 From: rattus at sprynet dot com Subject: Thrak Attack Thrak Attack is due out on June 24th in the U.S. Anyone know if the new Fripp is available in the States yet? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 1980 16:35:20 -0500 From: jewell at magicnet dot net (Jim and Lorna Jewell) Subject: ON release HI EVERYONE One of my best friends is Adrain's new recording engineer/guitar-tech. (I cant even begin to tell you how ENVIOUS I am!! he gets to see EVERY SINGLE KC SHOW!!) anyway... I have it on good athority that the new CD wil be released around September. I also believe Adrain was shopping around in a music store recently and discovered that somebody allready has a CD called "ON", and he's thinking of a new title (possibly OP ZOP 2 WAH). as for the music itself, its WAY BETTER than "here", and probably the best thing since Lone Rhino!! BUY IT!! YOU'LL LIKE IT!! Deep Cover member ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 00:34:53 -0700 From: "Richard D. Sippel" Subject: re: Y not 21CSM? "Do The Ears have Walls?!" Dear Crimson Folk: What's wrong with KC doing the "old music." At least it's their own bloody music! I welcome the chance to se them do it again, even though the band has changed since June 24, 1974 when I saw them last. I remember that concert on Cape Cod-Golden Earring, KC, and the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I didn't even see Fripp, as he hid behind the amplifiers,in the shadows mostly, seated on a wooden stool. And how on earth can the band be criticized for their playlist?! Be happy the band is touring at all! Some of you people should stop whining about what you think KC should be doing or not doing and get a life. As for myself, I'll be glad to experience whatever Fripp and KC have to offer this time around. So far the only tickets I can find here in Massachusetts are $60 a piece, and about a block away from the stage. You can bet that when I do pay the scalpers their price, I'll not cry about what Robert, et al, should or shouldn't have played. ET is wonderful! ToaPP is the best KC song! ERIC TAMM--time for a new revision of your Fripp tome, how about it! Your Welcome. Rick D.Sippel:-) ------------------------------ From: leslabb at prolog dot net Date: Sun, 09 Jun 96 01:56:17 -0500 Subject: ET Only Crimson Concert In ET 281 Gordon Wished For The Following; >How about an ET-only Crimson concert, in the NYC region (with perhaps west >coast and European analogs). This would be a concert available only to those >subscribing to ET. Not only could we be reasonably assured that our fellow >ETers would not scream during the Dinosaur break (or shout "DID YOU?" during >Indiscipline), KC could be free to do some things they might not otherwise tr YES recently had 3 shows in San Loius Obispo that were intially advertised to YES fans. These shows have been reported by those who attended as very intimate productions. YES even strayed into territory that they have not found themselves in for 20 years. >PS: I found it amusing that, although people responded strongly to my >statements recently about Gold CDs and the Greatful Dead's ability to >improvise, no one argued with the equation, >Trent Reznor=SPAM. I don't get it. I like Mr. Reznor's music. The show with him opening up for Bowie was awesome. The duets they did great. I am upset that I missed Bowie on the Tin Machine tour. Definite sonic news. Les Labbauf Email: leslabb at postoffice dot ptd dot net There is a fun and easy to use fixpack for WIN95, it's called OS/2 Warp http://home.ptd.net/leslabb/~index.html ------------------------------ From: leslabb at prolog dot net Date: Sun, 09 Jun 96 01:35:03 -0500 Subject: Earthbound Bootleg, Who Cares! In ET 281 Lewis or Barbara Pollock wrote, concerning my post about Earthbound; >I wouldn't trade it for the world. No, the sound quality may not be the >greatest (well, it may be pretty bad) but the incredible Mel Collins licks >and my favorite version of 21stCSM make this album a real treat. I only >wish there were more available from this KC lineup. Poor sound quality or >no, I'd like Mr. Fripp to know this is one of my favorite albums by ANY >group that I own. Yes definitely! Mel Collins kicks major ass on this album. Mr. Fripp also shines through. Even though it is not the perfect mix, the jam just breaks through. Peoria just shreds, not to mention Earthbound itdself. I am estatic to hear that there will be an Eartbound 2. Mr. Fripp, if you are listening I hope that if there is more from this manifestation of CRIMSON that you would make some available to those who would appreciate it. Les Labbauf Email: leslabb at postoffice dot ptd dot net There is a fun and easy to use fixpack for WIN95, it's called OS/2 Warp http://home.ptd.net/leslabb/~index.html Not necessarily a home page yet, but certainly moving towards it!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 05:39:41 -0400 From: Christian Ernst Subject: More William Bruford stuff... For those who wants to know it all... There are 2 "commercial" video-clips featuring our beloved drummer... One is Elephant Talk... and there is another one that i'v seen on Bravo! in Canada...taken from one of the Earthworks album. I don't remember the track but the audio was overdubed from the album. A very strange video with girls dancing around. I also have 2 quite illegal copy of Earthworks tv shows in england and Germany where we can ear incomplete version of tracks that would later appear on the second album. Digging further in my video collection, i have a tv show with the "live" equivalent of David Thorns Cloud About Mercury... the sound is terrible and i won't talk about the picture, not to mention the heavy "jam-like" atmosphere of the show... BliBlooBlaa... Be seeing you! Be seeing you! SCHAUZMOLL Soft c/o Christian Ernst 5550 Guy avenue Charlesbourg, QC G1H 4L5 Canada Phone: (418) 623-3878 Email: christianernst at mercure dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 16:39:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric S Peltier Subject: LD of upcoming video? Greetings, fello crimheads! I've never actually posted here in the 2 (?) years I have been receiving ET. I guess everyone else had more to say than me! But I digress. Anyone interested in a LD version of the upcoming video of the tour (I don't know what the official name is)? Personally, I enjoy concerts on LD immensely because the sound is digital, the picture quality is gorgeous, and it never degrades. They just exude vibrance, where tapes just seem flat. (try Peter Gabriel's "Secret World" or Pink Floyd's "Pulse" for some serious magic) But enough of my love of LDs. Anybody as interested as I? Tony, are you listening? +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Eric Peltier pelt0007 at gold dot tc dot umn dot edu http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/g337/pelt0007 +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 17:49:48 -0400 From: Emuguy5830 at aol dot com Subject: Untie and Unlatch uh, All right folks, I'm going to stir things up again with this here post. I want to hear some support for my personal favorite, and widely neglected, KC album. I am speaking of course of Islands. This is the album that fufills the promise of ItCotCK. This is the album where Mel Collins wails and, simply-spoken, kicks ass. This is the album where Fripp's song writing brilliance is showcased in its full potential. This is the album that I cannot go a day without listening to. The minimal song structures, with each band member contributed no more and no less, are pleasent yet invigorating This is opposed to earlier albums--esp. Lizard--and later albums--LTiA, Thrak--where things get rather confusing. Too many things are happening at once on these albums, leaving me, the listener, a little, well, clueless and slightly clue. I do like these albums, however. Don't think that I don't. I just prefer the simple beauty that is Islands. I think one of the best thins about this album is the almost complete lack of Mellotron. Fripp used the Mellotron on past and later album to set harmony and atmosphere, as it were. Not so the case with Islands (well, the Harmonium on "Islands" is used that way, but that's a pretty big BUT). Instead, the band members fit in sync perfectly negating the neccessity of an underlying harmony. I've said little about the individual performances because little is needed saying. Yes, Boz' voice is amazing; yes, Mel can belt a tune. But that's not the point. Islands is more than the individual performances. It's an experience. I wish I had more material from this band. I understand that boots from the band are rare and I have trouble finding boots anyway. I'm too young to have owned the EG-RELEASED, NON-BOOTLEG Earthbound, so I guess I just lucked out. Oh well! Finally, non-related Islands issue: Trevor Lever said that a five-track Schizo single is coming out later this summer. I assume that the songs on it will be: A live '69 performance, live '71, live '74, and live '96. So what's the fifth song going to be? Perhaps Lake's rendition? The original studio version (why bother)? Did the '72 Larks band play it? Perhaps even a '96 studio? Where's the cat? Where's the cradle? Matt C ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 23:49:50 +0100 From: GW Subject: re: UK reviled In ET281 Nel3 at aol dot com wrote: > On the reU(K)nion: one comment - (yawn) - ok more: let sleeping dinosaurs > lie - they never topped the first album, w/out holdsworth it's a waste, and > john wetton's voice is shot (if chasing the dragon's any indication - which > btw gets a big fat goose egg on my 5pt rating system - docked 1pt for mixing > the drums up in front of everything...), ditto adding Wetton back in as a > vocalist - comparisons to his voice of years ago are odious to me... I saw John Wetton in a small Club in November 1995. He played a set similar to 'Chasing The Dragon', but it sounded _much_ better ! I like JW's voice, and I was disappointed at 'Chasing The Dragon'. The mixing is really odd, the sound quite thin and JW's voice not at it's best. But that evening in November was really different ! Ciao GW removed at users dot request ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 08:26:21 -0400 To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk From: whatthat at nando dot net Subject: Re: Earthbound a bootleg? vs. the live series As I remember it, Earthbound was a budget release -- never was sold at full price. Seems I read somewhere (the scrapbook?) that it was mastered to cassette of all things -- it does lend loads of character to that album. But it was legit -- Fripp even acknowledges it by including it in the Crimson album discography pictured in "Young Person's Guide." I've always loved this album, what with the out of tune mellotrons in "The Sailor's Tale", Boz's sense of humour in "Peoria", and that wonderful wonderful moment in "Groon" where the device (synthesizer?) kicks in during the drum solo. But, it is that particular edition of KC with no trousers on, so I can see why Fripp isn't inclined to release it again. Maybe if the live series continues we'll see more from this lineup. Does anyone know what those non-plans were last time we heard? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 09:20:00 -0700 To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk From: Kenley Neufeld Subject: Berkeley Tickets going on sale Hello KC fans, The July 26 Greek Theatre concert in Berkeley, CA should be going on sale on Sunday, June 16. If you want to verify this through the net, go to a listing I provide called "Concerts in the San Francisco Bay Area" and it should list it for sure when it is official. I usually update the page on Friday or Saturday so try then. Here is the URL: http://www.usfca.edu/usf/neufeld/concerts.html Hope to see some of you there. _________________________________________________________ Kenley Neufeld | University High School (San Francisco) | Associate Librarian neufeldk at usfca dot edu | Electronic Media Coordinator URL: http://www.usfca.edu/usf/neufeld/kenley.html ------------------------------ From: PFripp at aol dot com Message-Id: <960609123554_213625037 at emout18 dot mail dot aol dot com> Subject: Re: Fripp SisterTo post To ET members. From Patricia Fripp, the Sister. I was delighted how many of your emailed me after my last posting. If you do I will put you on my email newsletter FRIPPNEWS. It is not about music, but speaking, business and life. Orn Orrason also suggested you check out my website. Please do, it changes frequently, as far as articles, quotes etc. http://www.fripp.com I saw you were discussing "What is Fripp really like?" Adrian says he likes desserts and will eat yours if it is still on the plate. Well this is what his sister thinks..... I have never met anyone less suited for what he does for a living than my brother. Brother is quiet and shy and more fragile than his sister. I once asked my mother, "Who do you worry about most, Brother or me?" She replied me as I would be more likely to tell someone off if they upset me. One of my pals met Brother in a TA groups years ago in New York. She said "I had no idea he was a Rock and Roll star, I thought he looked and spoke like a computer programer." Brother is a very sweet, nice, kind man. He loves his wife, his sister and his home and bunny rabbit. He was very close to our mother, and called her from all over the world. Has never taken drugs, likes the performance aspect of music, but the travel is tough. He likes reading, and walking in his garden. Has a great interest and knowledge in history, religion, politics, philosophy and gardens. Until next time, The Sister from San Francisco PFripp at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: 09 Jun 96 12:44:00 EDT From: Michael Ruesenberg <100603 dot 144 at CompuServe dot COM> To: elephant talk Subject: earthworks disbanded? Just today I did an radio-interview with bruford. before turning the tape on, I asked him about rumour in ET, his group earthworks was disbanded. according to bruford there was no formal decision in this direction, but due to his commitment with king crimson and that of django bates with various of his projects (you read about london sinfonietta in ET), earthworks practically doesn't exist at the moment. but in can be, as bruford said, revitalised anytime he's willing and able to do so, probably with different musicians. bill answered the jazzcity-questionaire that will be posted on my jazzcity-website, possibly in september. for the already existing questionaires please check *fragebogen* on the jazzcity-website (I'm sorry it is in german). *------------------------------------------------- michael ruesenberg. cologne. jazzcity on wdr radio 5 'http://www.wdr.de/Hoerfunk/hfkst/jazzcity.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 13:48:10 -0700 From: Stickman Organization: Existentialist Presuppositionalist Monks of Passion & Music Subject: improv comparrisons > : Nel3 at aol dot com wrote: > Improv vs no-improv? Have to agree (at least to an extent) with Kenneth > Kreutzer: The kind of pure chord-less improv of the '73-74 era band isn't > the stuff of great jazz albums, (but it is great anyway) so comparisons to > Coltrane et al are apples to oranges, just like comparisons to the dead are > like apples to road-apples.... I would say that you've arrived at a "tolerable" conclusion,. Yes comparing Coltrane & crimso is like different fruit, but do not over look Coltrane's free-jazz period, particullary Sun Ship, & Meditations. Then, after listening to these, if you can chart chords, Go ahead. It would be easier to Chart The Whole Starless & Bible Black album than Coltrane's Free Jazz.I think that many Crimso fans would really enjoy these Jazz reords, and would be surprised at how great & beautifully strange the improv is.- STICKMAN. ------------------------------ From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: "Starless" in Concert, the Paramount Theatre, and a Query to ETers I too think that "Starless" could be done live. I'd love to hear it with a Soundscapes texture added, as well! As far as the band 'sitting on their hands' during the buildup, this wouldn't be any different than the lead-into LTiA with "The Talking Drum", now, would it? Secondly, is not the Paramount Theatre in Brooklyn NY? I saw Soupy Sales there when I was a tyke... it was the site of countless performances in the past, most notably Sinatra, as well as the multiple Rock & Roll shows that Alan Freed put on years ago. Speaking of Asbury Park, I thought I'd toss this one out for fellow ETers: In 1980-81, The League of Gentlemen played at a small club in A.P. called The Fast Lane. It was on a Sunday during the summer. I've got a nice story about this if noone's read it yet; but if anyone reading this was at that show, it would be interesting to hear what you thought of the show. I for one remember being blown away completely, and saying to my friend later, "This is important," to quote the Dreyfus character in Close Encounters. Cheers, folks! I'm a little behind on my loop production, having (I think!) tripped into that trouble sector called Love, but I'm keeping it up. Let me know whatcha think! Steve Goodman EarthLight Productions-Studios -- ******************************************************************** * "I'd rather be a failure at something I loved, than be a * success at something I hated." - George Burns ******************************************************************** * The Loop Of The Week! http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #281 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 96 12:18:22 -0000 From: WOTAN >Just heard on the grapevine that their are plans to release a 5 track >CD-Single in late June. All 5 >tracks will be versions of Schizoid Man by various line-ups. Fan-That-I-Am >(FTIA), I would prefer the >group to be looking forward - creating new material - rather than looking >back and re-working older >material. If this single is as good and interesting as the assorted versions of "Easy Money" on The Great Deciever I would think it would be quite cool. Personally I believe good music is good no matter what year its performed in, and I can't really imagine Crimso releasing a bad record. They haven't yet. (Well, Earthbound....) Sheesh folks, this is a band that has outlived virtually everyone else, has consitently produced music of incredible quality, and is ALWAYS staggering live. Enjoy it while you can. Its a long dry road between Crimso's. This July will be my 4th show for this version of the band and the 8th time I've seen them live. I've enjoyed each and every performance. - Sez **************** Visit General Music 101 +===+ o +===+ at | | /|\ | | http://www.concentric.net/~selzler/ |~~~| Co-"=|~~~| |___| / \ |___| - The Road Goes on Forever - **************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:59:27 -0400 From: GBastug at essexusa dot com Subject: Re: Crim Playing Older Material While I've never been a fan of the eary King Crimson material (I haven't actually tried to listen for well over a decade), their decision to play 21CSM, or any other pre-existing tune, should hardly matter. It's a Crimson song, regarded by many to be a masterpiece, that they feel can be done justice with this line-up. I doubt there are legions of older Crimson fans who have not attended their concerts since the 80's, and this Crim believes 21CSM will dislodge them. And given the band's drive to continue to write new, crunching material, comparisons to other retro bands looking for money and glory by replaying history seems misguided. And what's new/old anyway? Is "Indiscipline", now 16 (!) years old, inappropriate to play? Should "Red" be transcribed and archived? If something has quality and meaning, it will perservere, on stage, on recordings, wherever. Whether or not the older material is contemporaneous, a point I believe meaningful to Fripp, is another question... Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:03:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert John Baker Subject: Many Thanks Many thanks to the person who posted that tix. were on sale for Merriwether Post Pavillion in Columbia, Md. last week, hope to say hello from the fifth row. It is amusing how people raise a fuss about "Shizoid Man", I hope they play it and that Robert brings his mellotron to Maryland. Thanks again, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 05:10:55 +0200 From: Alejandro Olazabal Bourdet Subject: Madrid set list - Anyone? Did anyone witness the Madrid show (may 31st)? And could anyone give me the actual set list of that gig (since they seem to be changing it as the tour progresses)? The show by the way was truly amazing. I don't know how it compares to the other ones in the tour but it was a music lesson my friends and I will not forget (a shame that they didn't play Starless; that would have made it a religious experience!). Well, fellow crimsonites, so long for now, Alex Olazabal ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 96 10:36 GMT From: TOLIN dot A at AppleLink dot Apple dot COM (Italy - CPU Prod. Marketing Mngr.) Subject: T.Levin on Fossati "Macrame" Hi, as some of you have probably read on Tony Levin's web, he recently collaborated & played on the new work of the italian musician Ivano Fossati, titled "Macrame". For people interested, Ivano Fossati is a long standing italian musician. He started more than 20 years ago with a group called "Delirium", had some hits, then he moved to a solo career. In the last 10-15 years, he changed to a much more intimate kind of music/lyrics. Of course this confined him to the "intellectual" side of the music scene, which means no stellar sales (but not bad at all....). He is one of the few artist I respect in my country. I hate to do comparisons, but I tend to consider him "our" Peter Gabriel (well, actually I prefer Fossati rather than Gabriel...). Before being an exceptional band leader he is also a poet and his lyrics are well know in Italy as the most interesting, intimate and never commonplace; many other singers include Fossati's songs in their sets or ask him to write songs for them. 4/5 years ago he released a masterpiece album called "Lindbergh", which contains beautiful songs. When I heard about the new album recently I thought "hmm, it'll be difficult to be better or almost equal to Lindbergh, that one is his top.....". I was wrong ! "Macrame' is even better than Lindbergh and it is in "heavy rotation" on my cd-player for a month. Tony Levin co-wrote two songs with Fossati: "Il vestito della sposa" (The wedding-dress), a beatiful track with just T-Lev-Stick & Ivano-voice+keyboards, and "La buona speranza" (The good hope), where he plays the Upright Bass. He plays Stick also in other two/three tracks. On the album there's also Trilok Gurtu on drums/percussion. If you have the possibilty to find this album, I really recommed you to buy it. Unfortunately the lyrics are half of the beauty of the work.....anyway, the music is extremely good too. Tony will play with Ivano in Milan on June 28th, just a week after the KC concert (21st). Best Andrea P.S. Bought THRAKATTAK...hmmmmm, I'm definitely NOT a fan of improvisation. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 11:43:18 EDT From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) Subject: Why we go to KC concerts "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." writes: > >The Van Halen situation is a much different one than Crimso. Remember, >King Crimson was unable to keep a somewhat stable lineup until the 80s. >Not everyone was able to stay on two albums a piece. The people, when >going to see King Crimson, were going for the music and Fripp, who has >been the mainstay. I won't comment on VH, since I'm not a big fan of theirs. But as for your comment on why people go to see KC, I'm at least one person who differs from your generalization. Personally, I couldn't care much about Fripp. He may be the driving influence of the band, but I go for the music, Adrian Belew, Bill Bruford and Tony Levin. From what I've seen (and Robert's remaining in the dark means I see very little), Robert's input (on stage) seems to be rather minimal. Case in point. While I do enjoy seeing KC perform, I have no desire to see a RF show. (I wouldn't refuse tickets, but I wouldn't pay for them either.) ------------------------------ From: David Ewing Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Chordless improvisation Nel3 at aol dot com writes > Improv vs no-improv? Have to agree (at least to an extent) with Kenneth > Kreutzer: The kind of pure chord-less improv of the '73-74 era band isn't > the stuff of great jazz albums, (but it is great anyway) so comparisons to > Coltrane et al are apples to oranges, just like comparisons to the dead are > like apples to road-apples.... There seems to be some misconception that "chordless improvisation" isn't jazz. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is basically "Free Jazz" (if you also free up the rhythm element). The modal jazz movement (Miles Davis, Bill Evans, etc.) was a reaction to "playing the changes" (i.e., soloing over chords) of bebop and other jazz forms. Instead of improvising using the notes in chords, they improvised using "modal scales". Ornette Coleman (among others) then blurred the rhythm and Free Jazz began to evolve, as practiced by such artists as Cecil Taylor, the Chicago folks (Albert Ayler, Sun Ra, the Art Ensemble of Chicag, etc.), and, yes, John Coltrane ("Ascension", "Interstellar Space" (definitely great jazz albums), ....). King Crimson's improvs were very much influenced by Free Jazz. The biggest difference between traditional Free Jazz (now there's an oxymoron!) and King Crimson's 70's improvs is the volume. *************************************************************************** David A. Ewing Interleaf - Boulder Lab. dewing at boulder dot ileaf dot com Boulder, Colorado *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:11:28 -0500 From: Music Library user Subject: Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx Hello to all. Just received the live League of Gentlemen album in the mail a few days ago (god bless Possible Productions). Having considered the studio version of "Trap" to be one of Fripp's all-time definitive guitar performances, I was curious to see how this band sounded live. And boy, do they sound! *Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx* is just under an hour in length. Hats off to engineer David Singleton for making these tracks sound as good as they do, considering that the original recording was done on a two-track tape machine! The mix favors a heavy bass and drum sound, but Fripp and Barry Andrews both break thru at times with their economic yet sharp commentaries. The LoG not only preceded Discipline chronologically, but musically. Fripp used the solid rhythm section as a base to experiment with and finally establish his amazing cross-picking technique. [Again, check "Trap" as a predecessor to the tune "Discipline".] That guitar technique was more clearly audible on *God Save the King*; however, fans of that album should definitely check out *Thrang*. Tracks of note include the funky-yet-meditative "Farewell Johnny Brill"; the funky-yet-ominous "Minor Man"; and the three separate takes of the title track [each featuring blazing Fripp solos]. And anyone who's heard "Frame By Frame" will recognize the aptly-titled "Ooh, Mr. Fripp". Liner notes are taken mostly from Fripp's informative and entertaining road diary at the time [1980]. Another all-around great package from our friends at Discipline Records. Final comment: although the LoG are no more than a sidebar in the Fripp legacy, their music provides an interesting step in tracing Fripp's guitar development. The first heavy-duty tune that emphasized cross-picking was "Fracture"...along with a few moments during the Great Deceiver box. Then, a few years later, the LoG pops up with Fripp just doing the *amazing* cyclic riffs...the kind of stuff that evolved into Discipline, *I Advance Masked*, and of course the League of Crafties. *Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx* is not the be-all end-all of Fripp's career, but it's defintiely a worthwhile listen. out of nowhere, Chris Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:06:22 CST From: cappsas at WKUVX1 dot WKU dot EDU Subject: old songs are cool :) ET'ers, We are looking forward to the H**** fest in Nashville TN (5th row center) and have been wondering about the reception that the "regular people" will give Crimson. We saw Adrian with the Bears and the opened with Purple Haze - Knowing the mentality of the average concert goer, this would be a good start. Does anyone know the order of the groups. Personally, I would hate to follow up Crimson with 3 cords in 4/4 time. I think that the Horde could help the popularity :( of my favorite band as long as it doesn't go to their heads. About them doing old songs - I love it - Red is awesome with the double trio (and so is LTiA) I would like to hear Cat Food with Adrian playing the piano part on his guitar synth. I just hope that Schizoid Man is not instrumental - the words make the song. In fact another good one could be Ladies of the Road with Adrian doing the sax solo stuff. One More Red Nightmare would be another. Have fun and quit the philosophy/politics discussion crap, Steve Capps cappsas at wkuvx1 dot wku dot edu The modern Caveman living in the land of sinkholes, Kentucky, USA ------------------------------ From: "Rob Murphree" Subject: Adrian Belew's NEW album Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:58:21 -0500 Hello Everyone, I just got off the phone with Adrian's manager a few minutes ago and thought I'd drop you all a note on some updates. Adrian's new solo project formerly known as "ON" has been renamed. The new title is.... are you ready for this? "Op Zop Too Wah". I asked him if it was going to be similar to "Guitar As Orchestra" and he said, "no". He said, and I quote. "This is possilby the best thing Adrian has done since I've been his manager". He went on to say that it will be a "masterpiece" of instrumentals and singing. He said it will be the heaviest use of Adrian's guitar playing to date. The album is scheduled to be released on September 10, 1996. Also, start looking for this album on the World Wide Web. Caroline Records will be setting up a page for this release and will be linking to Elephant Talk, CrimsOnline, Hermit's Adrian Belew page, and last but not least, mine. Hope this bit of information is helpful in getting Adrian more recognition. Start asking for it now so your music store will have it ordered as soon as it is released. Thanks, and don't forget to visit the page. I will hopefully have some early album art work online soon. Rob Murphree's Adrian Belew WWW Site. http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino (remember, it's WEB, not WWW in the address.) -Rob ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 1996 13:53:37 -0600 From: "John Ott" Subject: re- tour dates re: tour dates >Date: Wed, 5 Jun 96 11:22:24 EDT >From: "MODERN ANGEL O:)" >Subject: Tour, Sylvian, etc... snip--- >Another date I've seen mentioned for the NJ area is the Mann Music Center >in Philadelphia, on the 26th. I'd like to see a full listing of KC dates >if one's available...Another date I've seen mentioned for the NJ area is the Mann Music Center >in Philadelphia, on the 26th. I'd like to see a full listing of KC dates >if one's available... Opium arts/catalyst home page has the dates on the following URL: http://www.cinenet.net/users/catalyst/horde.html Papa Bear records had the dates also http://www.papabear.com/tlev.htm but had the Merriweather date listed as 8/26 when they are in Philly on that date and at Merriweater on the 25. (I Hope Tony is in the correct city on the correct night) I just checked and it has been corrected, Papa Bear also has the correct spelling of Merriweather. (no "y" in Merriweather, Catalyst) I'll be in row P at Merriweather Post. see ya John ------------------------------ To: address at nlic2 dot questint dot com Subject: Thoughts on Double Trio. Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:52:23 CDT From: Aaron M Cook Hello, In response to your post on 2nd to last ET instalment I can't remember the #. YOu had quite a lengthy post- very informative I must add. However I want you to know I don't share your opinion about how KC is a overmembered band with little effective use of technology. YOu mentioned that with some of the older songs they should be presented simply as a four-piece. And some off Thrak are done more effectively "simply". I agree about simplicity being more of a key with music structure. But much of the use of midi and soundscapes with various members utilizing that as well as the Stick and Warr and Bass being processed, show that KC can produce a sound that is not too processed. If all the guys were going at it with effects galore, no matter what the song (vintage KC or not) there would be a botched mess. I have a hunch that maybe these guys actually do know what they're doing. Perhaps they exist in a state of limbo where some menbers want to go hardcore complex and the others want to take the conventional approach to how much each individual band members tones are processed. I am amazed at how much KC can get away with in the processed tone field. For a six-piece band that aims to give a complex and tight sound their use of processors (midi-frippertronics-other rack-type components) I think they do a good job of getting alot of that in their music. When a less experienced band and or, smaller group goes heavy on the effects, shit- that group can put out a muttled mess. In this argument I see KC as quite a platform that dosen't do too much, any more "use of technology," (and forget the cliche 90's sample tech and culture sound,) would result in a big dissapoitment for all KC fans, you may be included. They are still good and they are still viable as forefront music. If we really have a question about what the hell they were thinking we should ask them or one of them why they sound like they do. --- Aaron M Cook avod at iastate dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:10:20 -0700 From: Tomas Uribe Subject: ET submission: Small Fripp anecdote Here's a small Fripp anecdote I'd been thinking of sending to ET for a while: At the first Soundscapes show at Slim's in San Francisco last year, with Patricia Fripp in attendance, the "soundscape machine" stopped working in the middle of a piece. While the sound people were busy fixing the thing (which they eventually did), (Robert) Fripp stood up from his stool and addressed the audience, which quickly became very quiet. He announced: "Speak amongst yourselves." There was some laughter, but apparently the instructions were not followed very enthusiastically, so Fripp returned---hushed silence, again---and said (something to this effect): "Otherwise, my sister will speak to you." Now, I always thought this was amusing, but looking at Patricia Fripp's web page (http://www.fripp.com), one and a half years later, truly puts it in perspective! Finally, while I'm on the subject, I just obtained the new soundscapes album, Radiophonics, which I looked forward to as much as ThrakAttack, if not more... and I'm not disappointed! Be forewarned, however, that the character of these soundscapes is as different from the previous two soundscapes albums as those two are different to each other. This is music very much unlike anything I've ever heard before. Later, - Tomas E. Uribe uribe at CS dot Stanford dot EDU ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 00:59:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Le Monsieur Damon Subject: VH1's irresponsibility For those of you who don't know, VH1 has been playing a show featuring the various tours travelling around the U.S. this summer. The show contains a rather long segment on the H.O.R.D.E. festival. And of course, during the entire segment, they didn't mention King Crimson's involvement with the festival even once. I have already e-mailed them with my discontent a few days ago, with no reply. I'm sure many K.C. fans - including myself - would appreciate any effort to rectify the situation. Therefore, please e-mail VH1 (vh1 at vh1 dot com) with your comments concerning the lack of recognition for the band. Also, I would like to keep track of how many people send letters. That way, if VH1 makes no reply at all and makes no change at all, I will have some concrete evidence that a decent number of people were dissatisfied with VH1's irresponsibility. In other words, please send a blind carbon copy to me (Bcc: dcapehar at utdallas dot edu) of whatever you send to vh1 at vh1 dot com concerning K.C.... either that or, if your mail server doesn't have "Bcc:" as far as you know, you could just forward it to me after you send it. Either way, I'd like to keep track. Also, please send any response you get from VH1 to me if you get it, even though I doubt you will. Thanks for your support, and please be civilized yet forceful in your letter. Emphasis on *civilized*. :) Damon Capehart | "I think we should eliminate semicolons from the aka Le Monsieur | English language; nobody uses them anymore dcapehar at utdallas dot edu | anyway." - one of Dilbert's anonymous coworkers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 08:39:07 -0500 From: Mark Kluth Subject: ET Newsletter Greetings from St. Paul, Minnesota; I have been a subscriber to ET for a few months now and have enjoyed it quite a bit. But I am increasingly put off by the tone of some of the more recent messages, particularly 1) the apparent "flame war" happening concerning KC's choice of material for their latest tour, and 2) the multi-page dissertations on Ayn Rand. These types of messages are of no interest to me whatsoever. Debate is indeed one of my favorite activities; but these messages have an underlying "flame" tone to them that is extremely distasteful. In the 20 years that I have been enjoying KC's music I've realized that KC fans are among the most educated, articulate persons you're likely to meet: it's really a drag for me personally to see the tone of these messages degrading like this. mkluth at primenet dot com ------------------------------ GIG REVIEWS (including spoilers) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jun 96 15:40:41 CET From: Marcin Gokieli Subject: AWWWAAGGGHHHRZAATTTATATATAAMMMM!!!!!!! (Gig review: Warsaw, Hi, First of all: do never belive in what people write as KC gig reviews. I do not think words can tell you anything about such a 'hot date'.... So, the show started at 8.00. The California Guitar Trio did a wonderful gig, and got a well desrved applause. They started with 'Yamanashi blues', and playe d their wonderful guitar music for about 40 minutes. After 15 minutes of break, Crimson appeared. They started with Talking Drum. Then came LTIA II. Then came FBF. Then came Dinosaur. Then came RED. And after that , i can't tell you what happened. They massacred us all. they pl ayed also Thrak (those who know this tune only from THRAK, VROOOM and B'BOOM do not know what this tune is like now. Listening to THRaK aTTaCK can be a useful tip). They played nearly all 'Discipline' -except the title 'song'(why, oh why didn't you play discipline-?!!!). They played also waiting man and... yes, the tune that came after 'waiting man' was somewhat similiar to neurotica. I mean, the words were the same, and the middle part also. But nothing more... They pla yed 'schizoid man also'. Personally i was not so much impressed by this tune. T hey didn't bring anything new to this tune (although it was the best version i have ever heard). I suspected more. The 'fugue' part seemed to be an ideal star t point for double trio massacre, but it was just like on ITCOCK. Exceptional points: sheltering sky, with a unbelivable Gunn/fripp performence. THG, preceeded by a drum trio. Red, which was the first full-throttle tune tha t night. And, of course, THRAK... BTW, I bought THRaK aTTaCK at the show. And I just wanted to tell you:BUY IT. And remember! Keep on hunting for the snark! Marcin Gokieli marfrank at plearn dot edu dot pl ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 96 03:22:33 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041 dot 247 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: Open Air Cologne KC open air concert review (Cologne, Germany, June 9, 1996) I had not been too optimistic about this concert: Last year's KC Duesseldorf concert had been somewhat frustrating for me - although everything was perfect, I wasn't very thrilled for some reason. Now, reviews of the ThrakAttack tour said that there were no new pieces, so of course I expected something like last year's concert to happen more or less again. I actually thought, why bother going there at all only to see the same old stuff? Well, I went there anyway and I was thrilled to hear, yes, nothing but pieces that I already knew - but with an *amazing* amount of newness to them in arrangement and interpretation. All pieces had been worked on, not only the obvious classics like "Schizoid Man". The pieces were arranged in a much more interesting way and played with even more vigor, virtuosity, preciseness, and fun. (Sound and mix were also very good.) The very same pieces that had left me (and many others), well, not very much impressed last year really blew my mind this time. Several times, I found myself crying at the sheer intensity of pieces I had never especially liked. All in all, one can say: KC have become *much* better since last year. Everyone I talked to after the concert agreed with this. Don't miss this tour! I won't bore you with set lists. Just a small selection of KC trivia: 1. The classic wallpaper shredding guitar solo sound which we all love so much is still around. On the other hand, you will sometimes see Robert play guitar but hear a piano, strange bell arpeggios, or choirs. 2. The stage has been changed so that RF sits in the upper row between the drummers, while Trey, Adrian, and Tony are at the front. This is much more convincing than the setup of last year's tour. 3. Robert has grown a beard again. Michael Peters http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/ ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #282 ********************************