From elephant-talk at arastar dot comMon May 13 06:42:08 1996 Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:59:24 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #275 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 275 Friday, 3 May 1996 Today's Topics: for ETalkers in France Discipline concerts Fripp The Physical Thrill of Listening Tour in Canada KC alternative? KC on the Radio Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #274 Fallen Angel In The Architecture New date 1996 tour ET Eno's influence on Reznor. your face Earthworks My Funky "Islands" Administrivia: POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: The DIY List Machine is back! At www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ Visit the *new* ET on the web at www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ** If you want to opt for new 'ET BULLETIN' service, where instead of the whole digest you receive a short email announcing the latest edition is out, and where to read it on the web, email me, toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk, saying: "ET BULLETIN -- YES". ** The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 09:13:48 +0200 From: Pierre Dauchy Subject: for ETalkers in France Hi, This is a rather urgent matter, I only got this information yesterday. So it would be nice if you could mail it directly to ETalkers who live in France. Here's what it is about: there will be a 1 hour radio program about KC and RF. It will take place next Thursday night - actually, more like Friday morning, since the schedule is midnight to 1AM. The title of the show is 'Tapage nocturne', it is presented by Bruno Letort, and the station is France Culture (in Paris, FM 93.5 or 93.9). The program should include excerpts from (at least) Discipline and The Bridge Between, as well as some descriptive talk and history. Thanks in advance, and keep it running. ET is one of the best moderated mailing lists I have been following. Pierre ______________________________________________________________________ Pierre Dauchy e-mail: pierre at cerma dot fr phone: +33 (1) 69 88 33 69 fax: +33 (1) 69 88 33 02 IMASSA-CERMA, BP 73, 91223 Bretigny sur Orge Cedex, France ______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:28:10 +0100 From: Tony Brown Subject: Discipline concerts Hello there In ET#274 Russell Whitworth asked about Discipline gigs. Well, I don't know if there were any others, but they definitely played at Manchester Polytechnic about 2 - 3 weeks before the London Gig that Russell went to - I was there. I remember seeing the advert in the Manchester Evening News (same as the one Russell posted, but different date) and almost falling off the chair. It was definitely 1981. I won't bore you with details, but suffice to say that it was something _rather_ special. I was also at the London gig, in a way. I happened to be in London with some friends that weekend, so I persuaded them to come and see this great band I'd recently seen. We got there and there were people queueing all over the place - it was completely sold out (or so we were told). So, we slunk away [although I think they were quite relieved, especially my girlfriend of the time who used to call Starless "the torture music" :) ], and went to the pictures instead (Superman II, for gods sake!). It was another 18 months before I got to see them in London, at the Hammersmith Palais - the hottest, sweatiest gig I've ever been to. Cheers Tony ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:28:58 -0400 From: upsetter at cybercom dot net (Art Cohen) Subject: Fripp Justin wondered: : Is Robert Fripp the Howard Roark of guitar playing? Robert Fripp is the Robert Fripp of guitar playing! --Art ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:25:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Joel Palmer Subject: The Physical Thrill of Listening Since 1971 when I first discovered KC and through the present moment, listening to Mr. Fripp has often resulted in a physical "thrilling" sensation of shivers and goose flesh. The thrill typically begins in my scalp at the top of my head, travels down my back and out to the extremities, often lasting several seconds. Some passages more reliably produce the thrill than others (for example, White Shadow, St. Elmo's Fire, Book of Saturday/Exiles, Wave, VROOOM VROOOM Coda). The feeling can be exquisitely uncomfortable! I have listened broadly and deeply across the musical spectrum, and the only other artist that comes close to Mr. Fripp in terms of reliably producing this thrill is... Elizabeth Fraser of Cocteau Twins (sample just about anything from Head Over Heels, Victorialand, the mid-'80's EPs). So I put it to the list: Who thrills you? Is this a highly-individualized matter of taste & experience, or can a particular sound consistently thrill just about any careful listener? - Joel Palmer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 16:20:51 -0700 From: "C. Gilles Lalancette" Organization: Logiscom Internet Subject: Tour in Canada Hi Guys, I think I'm a real fan but unfortunately, even after many attempt I never saw King Krimson live. I make a request assuming that if many do like me, Robert will comply : please come back in Montreal and let us have another show. The latest album from King Krimson is the best thing I ever heard and I would love to see such a show. My only other request is for you to let me know asap when (?) you will be back in Montreal. Thanks for listening C. Gilles Lalancette lalancet at cmac dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 17:13:18 -0500 (CDT) From: fred newman Subject: KC alternative? just a 'lil aside - maybe KC is encroaching on the alternative-but-not- really-cos-it's-so-commercial music that gets played on the radio here in houston. three of the mainstream radio stations often play vrooom or marine475 in the background while the dj is talking. i've even heard the local top 40 station playing discipline all under the dj of course. i have yet to hear them actually included in the normal rotation however, so my theory may be incorrect. does this happen in other cities? (private email por favor) cheers ferd *********************************************************************** see the amazing page of his fredness http://www.egr.uh.edu/~fdn5287/Welcome.html *********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 00:44:10 -0400 (EDT) From: DOESN'T MEAN A THING Subject: KC on the Radio Hello again, everyone! In ET v95 #274, Darius commented on hearing King Crimson once on the radio. I myself have heard them on very few occasions; several times I heard ItCotCK and Schizoid Man on WYSP-FM in Philadelphia, which was a Classic Rock channel at the time. Also, I have heard Schizoid Man and People(?) on WMMR-FM in Philadelphia, which plays a mix of classic and modern rock. Once I heard The Sheltering Sky on WXPN-FM, which is the University of Pennsylvania's station. So they don't get too much airplay, which is partially fine by me. Lots of people wouldn't understand them anyway. The last thing we'd want is for Crimso to become the next big thing anyway...I remember how cheap I felt when the Smashing Pumpkins' "Siamese Dream" record got really big in 1993, and all my teeny-bopper friend were singing "Today" all the fucking time. This was hurtful to me, being a follower of the band since 1991. Likewise, if Crimso became bastardized thus, I'm sure some of us would feel the same. Although I am originally from Philadelphia, I attend the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, MA and am a long-standing member of the radio station staff (WCHC-FM 88.1 in Worcester, all you Mass. people). I plan to have a show next semester dealing with "structural music", i.e., music that revolves around either very complex or very rigid structures. Featured will be prog bands like KC, Genesis (old), Yes (old), Ozric Tentacles, Popol Vuh, Van der Graaf Generator, Zappa, and Henry Cow. I will also explore other structurally oriented genres such as industrial (NIN, Skinny Puppy, Sister Machine Gun), ambient guitar (Blueshift Signal, Slowdive), and ambient electronic (Aphex Twin, Moby). Oh, yeah, I forgot...Echolyn and Dream Theater will be featured as well. If you have any ideas, feel free to e-mail me or post it to Toby. Thank you. mikael (speaking sotto voce) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 00:07:03 -0700 From: Paul Horn Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #274 Darius writes: >King Crimson is one of the few _authentically_ "alternative" bands around, >precisely _because_ as you say they are original and not particularly >commercial. When was the last time you heard them on the radio? When have >you EVER heard them on the radio? They get some airplay in LA on KSCA (101.9, LA's "Album Alternative", whatever that means!). They played "Walking on Air" quite a bit over the summer, and still occasionally fit it into the mix. They've also been known to play "Heartbeat" on occasion. In the early eighties, a number of cuts from TOAPP got airplay in Santa Barbara on the junky station there, and on KROQ (106.7) in LA. One local college station here, 88.7 KSPC, used to have a show that opened every week with 20th Century Schitzoid Man. I keep waiting for "People" to turn up as a single... - Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 03:40:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kurt F. Colville" Subject: Fallen Angel In The Architecture On 4/28, Justin Weinberg wrote: > Is Robert Fripp the Howard Roark of guitar playing? < Well, while they are the quintessence of their respective crafts and have gone to considerable lengths to preserve the integrity of their work against a vampiric public, their personal philosophies seem to be miles apart. I wonder, did Robert ever consider blowing up the band to keep sinister fans from debasing his work? Hmmmm... well, barring any fatal explosions, it'll be great to see KC in KC! Sincerely, Kurt Colville ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 May 96 10:38:28 -0700 From: "G.M. Visser" Subject: New date 1996 tour Last weekend i discovered a new date of the 1996 KC-tour. There will be a concert at the Congresgebouw, The Hague, Holland on Saturday 29th of June. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 07:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Ray Dittmeier Subject: ET "David G. Dixon" said... >1. Why has everyone always assumed that Robert Fripp must be a part of >the 'ultimate' King Crimson? His role in the current band seems to have >been pretty 'distilled', if you catch my meaning, in all aspects except >perhaps compositionally. Not to enter into a debate over the merits of Fripp's contributions, but assuming for the sake of argument that his role has indeed been distilled... I would imagine he owns the name, but you could regard that as a trivial thing to ignore if you're concocting fantasy lineups. But even if you don't consider playing or composition, he has a leadership role you have to consider. Not to the point where he's directing what people do, but I think he's going to influence the music even if he's just hanging around being Fripp. > 2. I've only seen KC live once, in Vancouver BC (my current residence) > last year, although I own all of their 'legitimate' albums and even a > video of '3 of a perfect pair - Live in Japan'. So, I feel capable of > rendering a creditable opinion on KC's music. I must say that, although > I enjoyed the show well enough, two things about it bothered me: > > a. It was too damned loud. > b. There was no significant improvisation happening, > so far as I could tell. > > If any band in existence could provide an interesting couple of hours of > mostly improvised rock music, surely this one could. Why don't they, do > you think? In short, I was very very surprised that what I heard at the > concert sounded so much like what I could hear on the CDs. I suspect that if they did it, you'd be disappointed. Probably no more than 10 minutes out of a typical two-hour improv show would be very good (IMHBSHO, i.e., "in my humble but strongly held opinion"). Of course, it would vary, and on a really good night they might just manage a good two-hour show, but it would be rare. As you get more people into a band doing free-form improv, the chances go way down that everyone will be in top form on any given night, free of distractions, concentrating on the music, in tune with (in the mental sense, not the musical one) what the rest of the guys are doing, etc... I think six is too many to get results that are anywhere near consistent, no matter how godlike the individual musicians are. I would hope that if they decided to try it, they'd at least have some rehearsed album material ready--"Plan B," you might say--in case the improv stuff isn't working. But having said that, I'm looking forward to this ThrakAttack album (or however the silly capitalization scheme goes). I think that over the course of an entire tour, they should be able to assemble an album's worth of killer improvs. ------------------------------ From: leslabb at prolog dot net Date: Wed, 01 May 96 21:53:51 -0500 Subject: Eno's influence on Reznor. In Elephant-Talk #273 Ray Peck & Steve Goodmand discussed the following: BP>>Eno is definitely a *strong* influence on Reznor, especially on The BP>>Downward Spiral. However, there are some areas (the meticulous BP>>Musique Concrete construction of that album from thousands of samples) BP>>that Eno definitely hasn't done. Whether you like it or not is BP>>another issue. SG>I beg to differ - listen to Bowie's "Low" and "Heroes", which Eno had no SG>small part in, and which Reznor has already admitted were major influences SG>in his work. While I have a problem with his lyrics, a listening to The SG>Downward Spiral, combined with early interviews with Robert Hilburn (the LA SG>Times' ultra-fauning, apparently starstruck- with-Reznor reviewer), led me SG>to listen to Low AND Heroes afterward. The comparison is inevitable. Actually I would recommend listening to NIN's "Further Down The Spiral". This disc is predominantely instrumental, and has a heavier dark side to it. The best description I would give it is a combination of heavy metal meets Pink Floyd and Brian Eno. There is also a small Gabriel/Last Temptation Of Christ influence as well. Les Les Labbauf Email: leslabb at postoffice dot ptd dot net There is a fun and easy to use fixpack for WIN95, it's called OS/2 Warp PotHead Pixies Unite:http://prog.ari.net/prog/Bands/Gongwyatt/gonghome The Banana Moon Observatory: http://www.colloquium.co.uk/www/gong/banana-moon-observatory.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 17:27:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Ian Geoffrey Miller Subject: your face Since et readers are much too sophisticated for cuss words, I'll rephrase my previous postage. I am really disappointed that THRaK aTTaCK is just a bunch of live versions of THRAK (that's the way I understand it at least). I was hoping for another live concert album, like B'BOOM, because KC96 has definately gotten a lot better since then, in particular their current renditions of pre-double-trio songs. ToaPP was way different when I saw the Crimsters in Rosemont late last year, in that the hi-hat part had been replaced with BB and PM trading snare hits in a similar fashion to the old hi-hat part. Also, how is this for a fantasy KC: Iggy Pop, vocal Robert Fripp, duh Billy Talbot, bass Tommy Ramone, drums or, Ian MacKaye, vocal, guitar John Wetton, bass Bill Bruford, elec. percussion Lars Ulrich, drums Although, really, any band that Wetton doesn't sing in is great. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 19:05:12 -0400 From: Emuguy5830 at aol dot com Subject: Earthworks um, First of all: Thanks to everyone who answered my last post. V. helpful. => Now: A couple months ago, while looking through the Dave Brubek albums at a nearby Media Play, I saw a couple of albums by a band called Bill Bruford's Earthworks. At the time, I had only heard Bill's work in Yes (I was yet relatively new to the KC-scene) which, depite the occasional great moment, I found to be lacking. Deciding not to take the risk, I was nevertheless intrigued and wrote a friend asking if he had knowledge of the band. He replied by telling me that the music was "quintessential electric jazz" and so on. Easily influenced, I bought the band's first album and Stamping Ground. Great music! All of this occured, I think, while the newly revamped KC was touring. As mentioned, I was relatively new to the scene and didn't know that Bill was back in KC. I was eagerly awaiting Earthworks' next release. Well, it's several months later now. I've gone out and bought every KC album, and I'm still waiting for Earthworks to get back together and do some more recording. Does anyone know what the state of this band is? Is there a future for Earthworks after RF decides to split the current KC? What are the other musicians (Ballamy, Bates, Harries) doing? Why doesn't Bill play chordal drums in KC? Does it sound like I'm rambling? regards, Matt C Post Script: If RF is the Howard Roark of guitar-playing, do you suppose he might blow up the stage at the, uh (can't say that word), festival this summer? ------------------------------ Date: 96-05-02 23:04:11 EDT From: jdepfam at bendnet dot com (Depper) Subj: My Funky "Islands" Hi everybody. I picked up an old LP of "Islands" the other day, but it doesn't have the usual Milky Way cover. It is a white cover with multicolored clouds. I have not seen this anywhere else. Is it worth anything? Anbody? Dave ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #275 ********************************