Errors-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #273 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 273 Friday, 26 April 1996 Today's Topics: brook/trak reviews... please no more KC lineup speculations... "the next Crimson," etc. Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 Fripp/Sylvian - Darshan syvlain/fripp: merton? Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 Homage to KC Crimson to play SPAC on HORDE tour Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 Ahem. Philadelphia 8/13 HORDE info needed!!! RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 MacDonald and Descartes Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 crimsonesque configurations KC are playing UK! Manicured Noise old vs. new live material itCotCK on Howard Stern Lineups. HORDE (feel free to discard) re:ThrakAttak, re:Damage and Duran Duran KC in a book about satanic music? Assorted thoughts on KC stuff KC on Horde dates Done Brian Eno and Michael Brook UK 1996 shows wanted! New Papa Bear and Possible Productions Web sites THRaK aTTaK and KC touring Crimson interview removed Live Recordings King Crimson w/H.O.R.D.E. dates Another Horde post Future Kings Crimson Gold & "CD Club" CDs Bruford, Alexander, and Copeland Posters??? The dream team #703 Frippertronics & Soundscapes Great Deceiver / Improvs Gold & "CD Club" CDs: an epilogue Frippography something KC dates Babies and King Crimson INDOOR GAMES pt 1 INDOOR GAMES pt 2 ET submission: David Cross Newsletter The "real deal" about HORDE Missing League of Gentlemen/God Save the Queen tracks? Administrivia: POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: The DIY List Machine is back! At www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ Visit the *new* ET on the web at www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ** If you want to opt for new 'ET BULLETIN' service, where instead of the whole digest you receive a short email announcing the latest edition is out, and where to read it on the web, email me, toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk, saying: "ET BULLETIN -- YES". ** The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 11:36:49 -0700 From: ca dot qc at bdi dot hcc dot com (CA QC) Subject: brook/trak reviews... Michael Brook's collaboration with P. Nooten is a great album--I believe it's on 4AD and called Sleeps with Fishes. I like Live at the Aquarium by M. Brook, too--and don't forget his collaboration with B. Eno--Hybrid. If one wants to submit track reviews why not submit them all at once then if the readers don't like them or do like them we can respond in kind and not have to deal with this much traffic on a weekly basis ad nauseum... or if the reviews really suck we can easily delete them. Gee, was I the only one to see David Sylvian tour with former Japanmates and David Torn and Mark Isham years ago? --Thomas B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:40:18 -0600 From: Paul Martz Subject: please no more KC lineup speculations... > UltraThrak 42: > Robert Fripp - Guitar, Mellotron, Soundscapes > Mark King - Bass, Vocals, programming > Billy Currie - keyboards, viola, programming. ...and Bill Clinton - saxophone -paul martz at shaft dot fc dot hp dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 16:38:39 EDT From: Peter Subject: "the next Crimson," etc. I'd like to see what Fripp/Gunn/ would be like. But I don't think the current lineup has even begun to reach its potential. I remember the first time I heard about the "double trio" concept- I immediately thought about weird stuff like Charles Ives' "Three Places in New England," in which the orchestra is divided into two parts which play two completely different pieces which somehow work together. Aside from VROOOM, the advantages of having two basses (I know, I know) and two drummers aren't played up. Like countless others have mentioned, it's nice that Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto are there, but they're not quite >necessary< either. In time they will be (they certainly hold their own in concert), if Crimson stays together long enough. HORDE- better Crimson than the Allman Brothers. Can't wait to see how my friends (who are all die hard Blues Traveler fans) react to Thrak and Indiscipline! PETER SHINDLER HTTP://WWW.UCC.UCONN.EDU/~PES94001 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 16:07:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Ian Geoffrey Miller Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 Howse about an album by Neil Young and King Crimson? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 17:24:12 -0400 From: ASFSeattle at aol dot com Subject: Fripp/Sylvian - Darshan Just a quick note. Lot's of talk lately on "Damage". Haven't seen any posts regarding the UK release of "Darshan". It's a 45 min CD with three takes on Darshan, two of which are alternates. One is a rendition with The Future Sound of London helping out. I personally love the song so it was money well spent to hear these. Some of the rest of ya might enjoy this too. Rgds, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 17:43:13 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Bajzek Subject: syvlain/fripp: merton? Organization: Aepithex (guitars) i recently saw a video about an american monk named thomas merton and i notice that there was a quote from him where he said something about "...in all things social, economical, spiritual." and after watching the rest of the video (well, i didn't have much of a choice) and reading over the lyrics to 20th century dreaming, it seems to me that this song has to be about merton... it closely parallels what he did... any thoughts? and if this has been addressed before, sorry... i only figured it out recently we'll steal your dreams ----william bajzek---- the realm of the freaks control your minds ------------http://--------- is to solve the demise persecute the fools ----phoebe.dws.acs.cmu.edu---- ravage the lifeless left behind -------------------/~wb2a/---------------- blinded by lies ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 18:10:58 -0400 (EDT) From: CRIMSO Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 Im dissapointed in the last few editions of ET, about some of the opinions expressed about the recent addition of King Crimson to the HORDE festival. I realize that these opinions are as important to the making of ET as my own, but would like to attempt to make a point. A significant segment of ET has been spent talking and obsessing ways to make King Crimson a more accessable and influential band to a more significant sect of society. Now, in light of KC doing something different, or trying to reach out to a group of society that were not even BORN when the first incarnation attained stardom, they are dubbed as "Selling Out". PITIFUL....... I cannot agree less.... What is wrong with King Crimson reaching out to a larger fan base? What is wrong with a group of talented musicians trying to become influential with the development of younger---or older for that matter, people and add to their musical tastes?? What is wrong with a middle age band with such a FRESH and NEW sound attempting to carve a section in music history??? The Beatles were influential and popular.....did they sell out???? If these members of this band were to "SELL OUT": 1) They would hire Dick Clark and try to promote "The Grecian Formula" styling Gel. 2) Host a "Bimbo's in Bikinis" segment of MTV's Spring Break in Daytona 1996. 3) Play every past hit of Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Hootie and the Blowfish, and Blues Traveler (And I would probably would STILL go see them!!) Is this the case??? NOOOOO WAAAYY It will be the same great Neoclassicalfunkjazzhardedgerockbluespop music that we cannot put a label on (cause the one up above doesnt even come close!!), and the only thing that will change??? THE AUDIENCE!! IS THAT SELLING OUT???? hmm I will revel when I hear the earingnosed, punk young kid (I guess like I was at one point!!) say...wow listen to this "New ALTERNATIVE GROUP MAN!!! They rock." If this tour brings one new ET'er to the forefront...I will personally welcome him, and to me the tour will have been a success!! Im sorry I took up so much space....I usually leave that to Bill Bruford. Tim Ritter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 15:32:50 -0700 From: walters at digidesign dot com (Tim Walters) Subject: Homage to KC >& finally, does anyone out there know the name of the French band whose >guitarist is/was Patrick ______, & who put out a track Hommage to KC on >either a solo or group album. I never bought the album when had the chance & >it's begun to haunt me. I would really appreciate anyone's help. The band is called Heldon, and the guitarist's name is Richard Pinhas. I don't know which album it's on, but the entire Heldon catalog is currently in print on the Cuneiform label (and almost certainly available from CDNow, which usually has track listings). ----------------------------- "Ever wonder what it sounds like *inside* that trash can icon on your desktop? Tim Walters knows." -Jim Aiken, _Keyboard_ Tim Walters -- walters at digidesign dot com -- http://www.slip.net/~coredump ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 18:41:04 -0400 From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) Subject: Crimson to play SPAC on HORDE tour THe word from the BT list is that KC will indeed be playing SPAC (Saratoga Performing Arts Center) on the HORDE tour!! Now to get some tickets!! For those who are unaware HORDE is a multi-band tour that John Popper of Blues Traveler concocted. HORDE stands for Horizons of Rock Developing Everywhere, or something to that effect. The idea is supposedly to use big and semi-big bands to attract an audience to a concert that will also showcase more obscure bands. This is where Rusted Root got its start from. Whatever teh intentions of John Popper,with BT's huge succes it looks to me like HORDE is becoming more and more like an MTV Buzzbin live type of thing. This kind of occurance makes me wonder why KC is involved, after all Robert Fripp once stopped in the middle a KC concert and informed the obnoxious crowd : "We are an artists, we are not meant to be liked" or some such pronouncement. My source on this statement is from the Vinyl version of the Young Person's Guide to KC. Given Fripp's obvios dedication to his music, why would he tour with what is IMO an MTV-steered group of bands? well it's goodbye. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 15:57:06 -0700 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 >Could someone please explain to me why people like Loren think it's wrong >for a good band to be popular as well? Does the author of this remember all the complaint a few months ago about people getting up and talking during KC shows? I for one would like to hear what these guys are playing, and hear it well, and this will become impossible if KC would ever become "popular". Let the "party down" folks keep to their Eagles reunion concerts, thank you very much. Have you read Fripp's essay on the audience experience? Do you think a HORDE audience is going to learn the art of listening, or will they be moshing, stage diving, and puking? I'm not sorry to sound elitist when I'm right, so I'll not apologize for how that reads. This is interesting, because I'm in a discussion on a college radio list about this very issue of presenting challenging, excellent music to the general student population, and I'm strongly in favor of doing so. However, tossing KC into a concert lineup of beer-swilling partiers is not the way to do it. IMNSHO. Not that I don't love a good Belgian Trappist ale. >It may also be that they want to build up a nice nest-egg so they won't >have to worry about sales when they release their next album. Bill >Bruford has stated that he played with Yes on Union entirely because the >money was enough to keep Earthworks going for a few years. True enough, although it nearly made me cry seeing him on stage w/ White and Rabin. >Those who would buy a extended >dance mix of "Mairzy Doats" if it were pushed enough on MTV and ZROCK?" Hey! I *love* Mairzy Doats! And Little Lambsy Divy! > Brian Eno has done every thing that Trent Reznor could ever hope to do. Eno is definitely a *strong* influence on Reznor, especially on The Downward Spiral. However, there are some areas (the meticulous Musique Concrete construction of that album from thousands of samples) that Eno definitely hasn't done. Whether you like it or not is another issue. >Unfortunately, this is not so. Firstly, refraction would occur in the >material that binds the disc, the "clear stuff". Secondly, what is >represented on the disc itself is binary. In theory, if it can be read, >then the output is the same. DA converters make a difference here, as well >as the players ability to read the disc without introcing errors. This is true, but there's also the issue of jitter (time-base distortion, caused by the variation from the perfect sampling frequency). Jitter has come to be recognized as a real, audible source of digital distortion, not just by audio tweaks who put green marker on their CDs, but by mastering engineers and others. I don't know if gold CDs (or the attendant attention to stamping details) improves jitter, but it's certainly a possibility that I wouldn't reject without data. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 18:00:07 -0500 From: penseur at intellex dot com (Ed Poe) Subject: Ahem. Just because you don't like a single doesn't mean somebody sucks. I repeat: Just because you don't like a single doesn't mean somebody sucks. I, for one, am looking forward to most of the bill at HORDE. - e - - - - - - - - - - - - "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." - Miles Davis - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 22:03:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Myers Subject: Philadelphia 8/13 HORDE info needed!!! Please, anyone who has ANY information about the Philadelphia HORDE show on August 13: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE e-mail me!! I want to go to this show very badly!!! Thanks very much! Karl Myers mophead at udel dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 96 03:04:12 UT From: "J. Milo Lanoue" Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 For those of us who no longer care, or are just sick of all the whining... HORDE tickets go on sale Saturday April 20 for the August 5 or 15, I missed the actual date, at Great Woods in Mansfield Massachusetts. So IMHO, buy your damn tickets and enjoy the show. Look at it this way... YOU are financing the next KC project. On that note... Evening all, Milo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 15:32:24 +0700 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: MacDonald and Descartes >Actually, Ian McDonald is the real name of Ian Matthews, who on later >albums by Fairport Convention was credited under that name. >it sure is a strange coincidence that Judy Dyble performed with two >different Ian McDonald's at about the same time. perhaps this is the reason MacDonald changed his name? So as not to be confused with "our" Mr McDonald??? A coupla months back I made the assertion: >Very interesting, especially since I believe one of Descartes' books is >entitled "I Advance Masked"! now, I've had a good search, and for the life of me I can't find this book. So apologies all... unless it was a chapter, or a chapter from someone else's book about RD, or a quotation from that great thinking man, I may have led you astray here. I guess I goofed. James James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand pixelphone james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz / steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time (Brian Eno) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 23:32:25 -0400 From: recengnr at athens dot net (TL) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) writes: > >Also, HORDE has >gotten the official MTV stamp of complete overexposure recently (due to >Blues Traveler IMO) so does this mean that RF & co. are attempting to >(shudder) sell out? The work of the musician in the marketplace is all about selling out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 23:32:27 -0400 From: recengnr at athens dot net (TL) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #272 >There was talk in the last et suggesting that Crimson was "selling .out." This is a term that is thrown around WAY too liberally and usually >in the context of "I used to like those guys until they sold out." >translation: "I listened to this band until other people started listening .to them, now I do not want to look too trendy, so I compromised my musical >taste for the sake of my image." This point is so very well made. Bravo. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:54:04 -0700 From: "David A. Craig" Subject: crimsonesque configurations It is appropriate for me to begin with the observation that there are by now *many* records in my collection which showcase david sylvian. Some of them are quite brilliant. So, i've watched people fantasize about a crimson containing sylvian for, i think, years now. I begin to wonder, am i the *only* person on the planet to think that this is a profoundly ghastly notion? I mean, a really, truly, horrible idea? Not just bad, but actually offensively silly? Simply, completely appalling? Inappropriate in the extreme? Genuinely just, well, WRONG? And no, you probably shouldn't be wiggling your fingers in anticipation of firing off your defense of crimso mark-stupid to et. Apparently, no one else but me cares. Personal abuse will do :) la la la david ------------------------------ From: nhi695 at abdn dot ac dot uk Subject: KC are playing UK! Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 13:33:12 +0100 (BST) Whoops - I take back what I said about KC not playing Britain and advising everyone to lobby their management (Opium are gonna kill me). It turns out KC are playing 2 nights at London's Shepherd's Bush Empire on 30th June and 1st July, the very last dates of the Thrak Attak tour. After the flak the Royal Albert Hall appears to have taken for its non-Crimsonian acoustics I can only say I've done one gig at Shepherd's (Roger Taylor's 'Happiness' debut) and the acoustics were very decent. See ya there... Jase ------------------------------ From: "Jerry Glocka" Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 09:50:12 +0000 Subject: Manicured Noise On Wed 4/17 Terry Kalka wrote of "Manicured Noise"... If the date of the show was in fact June 15th, 1995 then the show was in Milwaukee at the Riverside Theater. I was present. It was my first KC show ever after loosely following the band since I bought "In the Court of..." in 1970. Needless to say, I was blown away by the sonic fury of KC live. The plush seats of the Riverside Theater were all left with full body impressions of the people sat there during this show. Sound quality was superb from where I sat - 15th row, slightly left of center so that DAT should be good. However, If the date was June 16th, Minneapolis... well, never mind - I wasn't there. I would be interested in picking up this recording. Any info, please contact me off-list. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 16:29:32 +0200 From: The Scop Subject: old vs. new live material tcona at ix dot netcom dot com (Anthony J. Cona,Jr. ) wrote: > I hope they decide to play some other older > Crimson material. I think the newer lineup could do a great job on a > tune like Sailor's Tale. Let's hope they pull a big surprise and offer > some classic Crimson material that's been long overdue.Of course we > all hope they also offer up some new material that hasn't been > recorded yet. Well, wouldn't it be really cool if they surprise us and play a whole show of new (or even completely improvised) material? I would love that! -- Johannes Korn johakorn at indy1 dot biologie dot uni-freiburg dot de ------------------------------ From: Gregg Ulrich Subject: itCotCK on Howard Stern Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT) anyone hear Howard Stern singing ItCotCK when Jon Popper from the blues traveller called in to promote the HORDE festival? i thought it was very funny. he claims to like the song. he (howard) said he would like to sing the song with the band (jokingly, but i think it would be the funniest thing i ever heard!). Howard was looking for the album so that he could sing along with it. It was funny! get a sense of humor, will ya! unfortunately they could not find the album or KC would have gotten some (quality?) airtime! still laughing! Gregg Ulrich (408) 232-8550 Hyundai Digital Video Systems gulrich at hdvs dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 12:36:15 -0600 (CST) From: Alicia Sepulveda Subject: Lineups. Or how about: Robert Fripp- Guitar, Mellotron, Sounscapes Bill Bruford and Pat Mastelloto (sp.)-percussions Tony Levin (or Sting, even)- bass, lead vocals Dietrich Schoenemann, Taylor Deupree, Jason Szostek- Synths Pablo ------------------------------ From: mlh1 at cornell dot edu Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 13:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: HORDE (feel free to discard) Horizons of Rock Developing Everywhere was conceived as a festival that fairly big name American rock'n'roll acts could headline, and give lesser known bands a chance to play for a larger audience. It's a very free atmosphere -- I think KC's participation is a testament to this. This is a very diverse rock fest: Ziggy Marley, Taj Mahal, the Allman Brothers, Natalie Merchant, The Black Crowes, and Son Volt, just to name a few, have either been aboard in the past, or will be this year. I personally believe in all of these musicians commitment to their music. Of course, I can understand people not liking some of their music, but they deserve respect nonetheless. I think HORDE deserves respect. Anyone who questions Taj Mahal's musical integrity can pump on their head. And besides, the price is (at least last year) the same as for a single band show. So show up late if you feel the need to keep your distance from the masses who those who criticize would like to believe they are so much better than, but check your attitude at the door. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 14:40:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Le Monsieur Damon Subject: re:ThrakAttak, re:Damage and Duran Duran On Thu, 18 Apr 1996 Khosatral at aol dot com wrote: > BTW, www.ffly.com (Firefly) has an interview with Belew in it's Flypaper. > >From that, THRAK Attack seems to be a Zappa-like tapestry of the middle > improv parts of Thrak. Cool. Hmmm... so it's going to be kind of like that double CD that the Grateful Dead put out (forgot the title) that is really just one song recorded in various forms over the past 25 years... only for KC it'll be one CD and only over one year? Hmmm... sounds interesting. > p.s. Damage is one of my most-played albums, although (as a previous > poster pointed out) some of it does sound like Duran Duran... > albeit very cool Duran Duran. If you ever listen to something by Japan (Sylvian's previous band), follow immediately with early- to mid-Duran Duran, then take note of the years of release. You will clearly see that Duran Duran was (is) simply a carbon copy of Japan, though notably with better production (overproduction?), pouty lips, and mass-marketing. Damon Capehart | "Snot is running down his nose!" dcapehar at utdallas dot edu | - Ian Anderson, Jethro Tull ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 15:29:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Le Monsieur Damon Subject: KC in a book about satanic music? Most of you know about those books and shows and what not about people's claims that bands such as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath are Satan- worshippers whose music is little more than a tools of the evil one himself, right? Well, while claims on such bands as LZ and BS may actually have some slight merit, it seems strange that someone would make such a claim on such an intellectual band as KC. Well, nonetheless, a friend of mine claims that King Crimson is in fact mentioned in one or more of these books, but 1) he can't remember the title of the book, and 2) we're in Dallas and the books are at his parents' place in El Paso. Does anyone perchance own - for novelty's sake, perhaps - any of these books that my friend claims to exist? If so, what exactly do these books say about Fripp & Co.? Thanks. Damon Capehart | "Snot is running down his nose!" dcapehar at utdallas dot edu | - Ian Anderson, Jethro Tull P.S.: As a side note, I can see why a religious person with little knowledge of the band itself would be tempted to make such a claim, preposterous as it may be to us. After all, King Crimson *is* just Pete Sinfield's name for Beelzebub. Think about it. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 17:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Charles Stanford Subject: Assorted thoughts on KC stuff Hi; this is my first post, so bear with me. First I'd like to know whether anyone else has noticed what I consider a brilliant little joke in the song "Red." The song constantly alludes to twelve-bar blues structure, especially near the beginning. It's kind of a simple joke, really (blue-red), but it still cracks me up everytime I listen to it. RF seems to have a very interesting sense of humor. Second, Adrian Belew is on the album "God Shuffled His Feet" by the Crash Test Dummies. He plays guitar synth on the title track. Just an interesting little tidbit I thought I'd share with you. I guess I might as well say something about the THRAK logo: it looks a lot like the character in the Cyrillic (Russian) alphabet that represents a "zh" sound. This is probably completely irrelevant, but oh well. Lastly, I'd just like to vent off some steam. I was reading some internet guidebook, and in the section where they had lists of bands on the web, I was looking for King Crimson, and I found them listed under "alternative!" That made me furious! This labeling things as alternative has gone much too far. Besides, I can't say that I'm all that fond of most of the music under that name, and to group one of the most original, relevant bands of all time into a label that has, IMHO, come to symbolize a commercially exploited fad just makes my blood boil! Well I'm wasting bandwidth, so I'll shut up now. Thanks for listening. -Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 20:51:41 -0500 From: Chris Berg Subject: KC on Horde dates Hey folks. I haven't seen it yet, so I thought I'd share while I had the info in front of me. Here are the dates KC will be playing on the HORDE tour: Thu, 8-Aug Kansas City, KS# Fri, 9-Aug St. Louis, MO# Sat, 10-Aug Nashville, TN# Sun, 11-Aug Cincinatti, OH# Mon, 12-Aug Travel Tue, 13-Aug Pittsburgh, PA# Wed, 14-Aug Travel Thu, 15-Aug Boston, MA# Fri, 16-Aug New York, NY# Sat, 17-Aug TBA Sun, 18-Aug Saratoga Spgs, NY# Tue, 20-Aug Buffalo, NY# Wed, 21-Aug Hartford, CT# Fri, 23-Aug Burlington, VT# this info is per the HORDE web page, so I would presume it to be very accurate. NOW, hopefully, they'll schedule dates for every other town in the US :) Chris -- "Disney was going to pave over a Civil War battlefield to put up a theme park about American history. No irony there. All I can say is that it is a gross distortion of history to have the Underground Railroad loop the loop." - Al Franken. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 19:28:11 +0200 From: alain dot pinero at agp dot servicom dot es Subject: Done "Mr. Fripp has been playing in a special occasion at the Queen Elizabeth Hall at the foyer,no tickets were needed,giving this an oportunity to many people to come and participate regardless of their economical situation and social class.For some,music for free was not enough,so they were asking for a free CD,a free plectrum,a free autograph,a free photograph,or they were claiming that the player should give his time freely to them,accept their casettes or CDs and talk to them;as an example;while Robert was tuning his guitar a guy came and put a CD on his nose,assuming that he was hidding a third hand somewhere. The event provided a situation in wich audiences of very different ages and nationalities,musician,technicians and technology were using a space to allow something to happen.For the first time a quadrophonic sistem has been used, being the team learning the use of it during the performance;the audience was sorrounded by speakers and thus by sounds.Music was a tool for a number of people to do things like focusing attention,listening,relaxing,meditating, thinking,sleeping,talking,reading,writing,judjing,meeting friends,eating and drinking,laughing,pouring tears,making contacts,expecting,disliking,having a great time and showing up some personal madnesess. The player was not the only relevant part of the show,though essential,and he was also audience and he also didn't know what could happen next,the event as a hole was much bigger than him." That's my comment on the series of performances given in London from the sixth to the tenth of March,I have send it to Robert and he asked me if I would like to send it to Elephant Talk,and this is what I have done. Alain. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 09:35:21 UT From: "Jim Sciarra" Subject: Brian Eno and Michael Brook In ET #271, Tom J (signals at IMAP1 dot ASU dot EDU) inquired about an album with Brian Eno and Michael Brook. There is such an album -- it is "Music For Films III", released in 1988. By odd coincidence, I happened to be listening to it as I read his post. This disc is a compilation of pieces from various musicians. Eno and Brook collaborate on two tracks: "Err" (written by Brook, produced by Brook/Eno, recorded in concert in Berlin), and "Zaragoza" (written and performed by Laraaji, produced by Brook/Eno, recorded in concert in Zaragoza). Jim ------------------------------ Subj: UK 1996 shows wanted! Date: 96-04-21 06:35:42 EDT From: user at cafenet dot co dot uk (username) The Progressive Society in "Bruford-town" wish to add their plea for UK Crimson shows in '96, please! We agree with Talk-er Brian Thomson that London & other areas of the UK (Midlands, etc.) have several venues with infinitely better acoustics than RAH - though we 3 (amongst many) thoroughly enjoyed the May '95 gigs there, because the music, humour & evident enjoyment of all on stage was electrifying! Tiz Hay (Editor "PROGRESS" magazine), Charles Imperatori (CRIMSO-reviewer) and Marcus McHorn (super-fast reviewer of hot new releases!) - alas not yet on the Internet - but available for all CRIMSO comments at : P.O. Box 310, Guildford, Surrey GU2 5WH, England. --------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:18:32 -0400 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: New Papa Bear and Possible Productions Web sites Tony Levin's new Papa Bear Records pages are now available through the ET web site, as are the new Possible Productions web pages. Tony's is a must visit for all his fans, and he has some information that will interest all ETers. He says, "The site has info on World Diary, P.Bear t-shirts, Funk Fingers, and a page of my ramblings." The Possible Productions web pages have been developed by Bill Forth and are much improve on what had been available before. Lots of great stuff there! Check them out! Dan DanKirkd at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:18:34 -0400 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: THRaK aTTaK and KC touring I've been in contact with Mr. Funk Fingers himself about a couple of topics that ETers have been discussing in recent weeks, and thought I'd pass along some of what he said. On THRaK aTTaK: "...my understanding is that it's some of the best live versions of THRAK (which is almost completely improvised, and is utterly different from night to night) strung together." Tony talks further about THRaK aTTaK at the new Papa Bear (http://papabear.com/) web site. On KC touring: "Crimson will tour before and after HORDE but don't have definite locales yet. (and let me add, it's NOT up to the band to choose them!)" So the good news is the HORDE gigs won't be the only ones the band does. Maybe we can stop groaning now? Later! Dan DanKirkd at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:22:46 -0600 From: tim siefkes Subject: Crimson interview removed This is simply to inform the E-T audience that the interview with KC and company I had posted on-line (and mentioned in E-T #272) has been removed. I was politely informed that there were copyright issues I was not aware of, and while the pages were initially an educational exercise for myself to try some HTML coding techniques, I should have not used that subject material to work with. So all is gone, I have learned what I needed to learn, and that is that. Now back to our regularly scheduled discussions.... -Tim Siefkes timsks at visi dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:43:46 -0400 From: DLiv01 at aol dot com Subject: Live Recordings Hello all, it is has been good reading your recent postings! I realize that many of you are passionate about live Crimson and I wanted to briefly discuss some of the various recordings available. To begin, many of us are aware that Fripp releases live recordings such as B-Boom because he realizes how poor the quality is on many of the over-priced bootlegs. Examples of this lack of quality can be found in much of the information found on some of the imported seventies recordings. For instance, my sister picked up a couple of bootlegs for me while she was in Greece; the first titled "Book of Saturday" was dated '74 while the second, "Cloudy Air" was dated '73. They are the same concert! A third bootleg I bought here in the States titled "Song for Europe" is also this Amsterdam concert but it has a dubbed in commentary after each song plus two bonus BBC '69 recordings. This is a nice concert and the set list is accurate unlike another bootleg I found titled "Trilogy." The producers of this CD, that call themselves "Moon Child Records", didn't even bother to get the names of the songs right. They just thew names like Three of a Perfect Pair and Untitled Guitar Instrumental onto songs from LTiA. The best thing about these recordings is that they give you an unedited piece of music history with everything from a middle of the concert mellotron tuning to the loud laughter of an enthusiastic fan. My advice to new Crimson fans is to buy Fripp's releases such as the Great Deciever box set first. They are competitively priced and include nice reading material. If after this your needs are not met, go to the "unofficial" recordings. Happy Fishing, D.L. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:21:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: King Crimson w/H.O.R.D.E. dates According to the H.O.R.D.E. camp, the list of dates that Crimson will be along for the ride is as follows: August 8 - Kansas City August 9 - St Lous August 10 - Nashville August 11 - Cincinatti August 13 - Pittsburgh August 15 - Boston August 16 - New York August 18 - Sarasota Springs August 20 - Buffalo August 21 - Hartford August 23 - Burlington -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 15:37:44 -0400 From: Emuguy5830 at aol dot com Subject: Another Horde post Um, feel free to skip this if you're tired of hearing about the Horde. Having heard enough about KC selling out (then, subsequently, KC not selling out) because they've decided to do the Horde Cirkus, I resigned myself to saying something lest I find myself sniggering in the draft. Here is what I decided to say: There is no danger of KC "selling out" (whatever that means). Here's why: No one cares. In fact, the only people who are talking about the Horde festival is (prepare yourselves) KC geeks, er, Crimheads (or do we call ourselves Crimzoids, I forget). Personally, KC is my favorite band, and I've done my bit to promote them in my few short years of higher education (is public high school education "higher education." I'm inclined to believe that it is not). During this time, I've only had one person I could convert and that was because he was already listening to prog-rock (e.g. Yes, ELP, et al). Everyone else said what the hell is this? is that a flute? is that a violin? this is crap. Admittedly, students (high school and, I presume, college) don't make up the entire consumer market. There are a lot of adults out there who still buy music. But all of this selling out talk only pertains to idiot high school and college students. I think I can safely say that most adults aren't influenced by what students think, esp. about music. High school and college students, for the most part, however, are influenced by what others think. And, true, they do attned these festival like Horde. But their peers don't like KC. Trust me. If one of them doesn't like it, none of them will. Truthfully, I couldn't be happier (one hand clap) that KC is playing Horde. Last time they came 'round these parts, I missed them. Now I have a chance to redeem myself. If that means I'll have to go to Horde, then I'll have to go Horde. Of course, I'd rather seem them on their own bill, but . . . I wonder what RF thinks about all this selling out talk (it's only talk). I wonder whatever happened to the New Kids on the Block (four went by and none came back). Hmm . . . At paranoia's poison door, Matt C. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 22:17:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeremy P Lakatos Subject: Future Kings Crimson First, I really wish I could get some new music from THIS King Crimson. It is an irritation to have an EP, an LP, a double-boot (but not near 140 minutes) that is way too expensive to buy, and another disk (official boot? ordinary cheap disk?) all of the same material. Is this incarnation of KC only going to have one album? But in the realm of speculation, I'd find it interesting to see KC go back to a trio: Fripp, Guitar (can the soundscapes, let Trey handle atmospherics) Trey Gunn, Warr Guitar Bruford, Drums Or how about this, the KC bass quartet: Fripp, Soundscapes Trey Gunn, Warr Guitar Victor Wooten, Bass Michael Manring, Zon Hyperbass Les Claypool, Bass Heck, with this you don't need percussion or rhythm guitar (Les handles that fine), lead guitar (Manring), or Fripp's guitar (Trey Gunn, witness the "is this Fripp or not" debates about Thrak and The Bridge Between). Plus, you've got vocals if you want them (Les, Vic), keyboards (Manring, Fripp if you force him), and damn, could these guys groove! "People" will never be the same. Okay, I'm silly with this. Just love those unique bassists. How's this? Fripp, Guitar, Frippertronics David Sylvian, Guitar, Keys, Vocals Geoff Tate, Sax, Vocals Jerry Gaskill, Drums, Vocals Geddy Lee, Bass, Vocals We've got all voices (and the gadgets to loop them), the highs and lows. It's Gentle Giant of the 90s (since there's no Gentle Giant IN the 90s). Run me up a 12-part "Knots," segued into "Sex Sleep Eat Dream," please. Hope you were entertained. Bye. jeremy <*> afn39111 at afn dot org Ben Tucker: "In capitalism, man exploits man. In socialism, it's exactly the opposite." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:12:49 -0400 From: Lawrence Raniere Subject: Gold & "CD Club" CDs Hello, chatmeisters. In ET #272, I was glad to see that Tom Lewis brought some sense to this "gold CD" issue, responding to a "refraction" comment of another poster: >Unfortunately, this is not so. Firstly, refraction would occur in the >material that binds the disc, the "clear stuff". Secondly, what is >represented on the disc itself is binary. In theory, if it can be read, >then the output is the same. DA converters make a difference here, as well >as the players ability to read the disc without introducing errors. >However, bits being encased in gold are still bits, and they will not sound >fuller, or warmer, or more like Ethyl Merman and less like a no. 2 pencil. Actually, it's Ethel. But the comment was good. I would like to present some information responding to other mis-information circulating about CD Club CDs. A poster had claimed that these CDs are able to be sold cheaper because the CDs were pressed from masters that were made at 2x or 4x speed, presumably saving money while compromising quality. Well, I have a friend who works at the BMG Music Club in a management position. She claims that there are only 6 major plants in the US that press CDs. She says that all CDs at these plants are pressed using the same type of master, which is changed after every 10,000 CDs. Even though I do not have all the details, she claims that making masters at 2x or 4x speed is not technologically possible at this point. She claims that even if it were, the pressing plants would not do that to the clubs, who are huge and often among the largest purchasers of CDs from these plants, often bigger than individual labels. She says that BMG does about $100M of business per year, which gives them clout. She also said that the quality control engineers at these plants have told her that there is no audible improvement by using gold in CDs. Later. - LR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 14:13:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Myers Subject: Bruford, Alexander, and Copeland Posters??? Hey all, I could use some info... I have found places to get some cool drummer posters, but I can't find any places that sell Bill Bruford, Tim "Herb" Alexander, and Stewart Copeland posters. Can anyone point me in the right direction??? Karl Myers mophead at udel dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:56:18 +1100 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: The dream team #703 I promised myself I wouldn't enter this thread, but... Whoever suggested Mark King in a potential "dream-team" has made a pretty damn good suggestion IMHO... how about this line-up? Robert Fripp - gtr, kybds, soundscapes Phil Manzanera - gtr Tony Levin - bass gtr, Chapman Stick and/or Warr gtr Danny Thompson -double bass Bill Bruford - drums, percussion ??? - vocals um, well yeah, I wasn't sure about vocalist. keeping Adrian would make this line-up guitar heavy and I can't stand David Sylvian's vocals (this is just my opinion, mind). The suggestion of Laurie Anderson is good for quieter numbers, but I can't see her ripping into "Neurotica". Several left-field suggestions come to mind, but none of them seem quite right... Suzanne Vega, Grant Hart... would you believe David Bowie? I also considered New Zealander Graeme Downes (whom 99% of you have probably never heard of) I considered Bruce Thomas as a potential bassist, but the idea of linking Tony up with the amazing double bass maestro Danny Thompson was too much for me. Another possible permutation I'd like to see woulkd be adding a seventh member on keyboards and effects, none other that Bobby's old buddy Brian Eno... or perhaps he could be the sixth member, on vocals and "sonic stuff"??? James James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago. Ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand pixelphone james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz / steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807 * You talk to me as if from a distance * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time, * from another time (Brian Eno) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 09:35:11 -0600 (CST) From: Z4K42 at ttacs dot ttu dot edu Subject: Frippertronics & Soundscapes I have been out of trading for a while now, but I was thinking recently about the delay of "Radiophonics" to the US and that I might be able to be more patient if I had some soundscapes that were new. So this is a call for trades of soundscapes and 78-79 frippertronics recordings. I do have about 6 'tronics shows and 1 soundscape show, plus a spectacular array of Thrak shows. Anyone interested please respond soon. Scott ------------------------------ Date: 23 Apr 1996 15:40:39 +0000 From: "Poisson, Thomas" Subject: Great Deceiver / Improvs I have recently bought TGD box set, which is absolutely necessary for the '73 - '74 period fans. It is actually ET postings that encouraged me to buy it, as well as a surprising 7th place in the last survey . I find the improvisations consistently excellent although not easy to approach. I was wondering how much of those were actually "improvised". Some seem so focused and full of intention that I am left wondering "did they do that starting from scratch?". Did they say: "OK tonight, Bill, you don't drum, and we make a peaceful piece and we call it 'Trio' " or did it happen to be so because they were in a reflective mood that night ? How much is intended, how much is not ? Any method known for improvising like they do (that is, not based on solos but on group interaction) ? I am left Clueless and Slightly Slack at the beauty and power of those moments which I don't understand (and probably neither did they). Any reflections on that more than welcome. The prospect of soon hearing another set full of improv by those talented gentlemen thraks me, as I believe the current KC seems *perfect* for improvs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 11:51:11 -0400 From: Lawrence Raniere Subject: Gold & "CD Club" CDs: an epilogue Hello again, chatmeisters. This is a follow-up to the note I sent yesterday mainly concerning CD club CDs. My source at BMG corrected me in saying that they do 100M CDs per year volume, not $100M (so, that would be larger - obviously). She also wanted me to emphasize that they are produced at the same quality, with the same defect rate as retail CDs. Since as mentioned there are 6 major plants producing CDs in the US, they are very competitive and maintain very high standards. She believes these rumours about CD club CDs being bad was a holdover from the LP days, when that may have been the case (it was before her time, though). Of course, she couldn't explain why "The Greatest Hits of Ferrante & Teicher" will arrive instead of what you really wanted. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:04:32 -0700 From: relph at mando dot engr dot sgi dot com (John Relph) Subject: Frippography This is just a short note to say that the latest revision of the Robert Fripp and King Crimson discography is available using the World Wide Web at "http://reality.sgi.com/relph/et/". Last revised 23 April, revision 3.7v (and always being updated). There have been many updates in the last month, including a complete rework for Web presentation and the addition of more details from various ET subscribers and other collectors. Thanks to those of you who have contributed! Don't forget to update your Web bookmarks. -- John P.S. _FFWD>>_ is great! I finally found a copy and it fits in with Eno's definition of ambient music (it contains some evil sounds). -- http://reality.sgi.com/relph/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 19:12:25 +0000 (CEST) From: Jakubecz Andras Subject: something i think too, the latest crimso(!) albums (thrak,b'boom) is the finests since Fripp -pardon: Mr.Robert FRIPP- with her collea- gues makes the Red. i think all K.C. LP's is very complete, exquisite - and it is not blah-blah /from iggy../ between the Wetton-Bruford-Fripp trio and the new double trio have a very massive bridge: the music. + additional material to Gen.X/prog.fan "problems": R. Wyatt played in Ultramarine; Fripp played in no-man, grid; Steve Hillage in System 7 etc. this people live the life with open mind. bye: andrew j. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Apr 96 13:30:50 EDT From: Discipline Global Mobile Subject: KC dates King Crimson - THRaKaTTaK TOUR - Europe 1996 Mon 27-May King Crimson - THRaKaTTaK - the album - release date Tue 28-May BORDEAUX Le Krakatoa Thu 30-May MADRID Palacio Congresos Fri 31-May MADRID Palacio Congresos Sat 01-Jun Cartagena Auditorium de Murica Mon 03-Jun LYON Auditorium Maurice Ravel Tue 04-Jun MANNHEIM Rosengarten - Musansaal Wed 05-Jun BERLIN Tempodrom Fri 07-Jun WARSAW Congress Hall Sun 09-Jun COLOGNE Tanzbrunnen Mon 10-Jun FRANKFURT Alte Opera Tue 11-Jun NURNBERG Meistersingerhalle Thu 13-Jun DORTMUND Westfalen Park Fri 14-Jun HAMBURG Stadtpark Sat 15-Jun CHIMNITZ Stadt Halle Mon 17-Jun PRAGUE Palace of Culture Tue 18-Jun PRESOV Amphitheatre Wed 19-Jun BUDAPEST Olympia Petogi Csarnocha Fri 21-Jun CODROIPO Villa Manin Sat 22-Jun FLORENCE Auditorium del Casaine Mon 24-Jun NAPLES Teatro Tenda Tue 25-Jun ROME Eur Steps Fri 28-Jun BRUSSELS Palais des Beaux Arts Sat 29-Jun DEN HAAG Congresgabouw Sun 30-Jun LONDON Shepherd's Bush Empire Mon 01-Jul LONDON Shepherd's Bush Empire ------------------------------ From: bkwells at ibm dot net (Bruce Wells) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 11:26:42 Subject: Babies and King Crimson Well it seems I am not alone in finding that babies like King Crimson. In a previous post to ET, I had asked for anyone with any experience of crying babies being calmed down by King Crimson. The answer is yes! Brian Workman (bworkman at aol dot com) wrote: >I don't know why, but I have experienced the same thing. Especially "Starless >& Bible Black". Yes' "Close to the Edge" produces the same effect. There is >also a strong liking for BB King for some reason. Go figure. Keith Sommers (ksommers at communique dot net) writes: >I have indeed had similar experiences as those that you describe. My >daughter, who is presently 14 months old, is a big King Crimson fan. She >becomes excited whenever I put on "Thrak" when we are in our van. She likes >Vroom and Dinosaur a lot. She starts rocking in her seat to the music. >This has been going on for over 8 months. She, like my two sons, especially >like Dinosaur. She even "sings" along. It's pretty amazing. KC even pacifies a cat! Carolyn Stelmack (cs69+ at andrew dot cmu dot edu) wrote: >I have this rather insecure cat who is very persistant >in demanding attention. My brother calls her >the "self-petting cat" because she will actually come up and >purr at you and head-butt your hand in an effort to get you >to pet her. Chita was always constantly jumping up >on me, rubbing up against me, shedding fur on me, etc no >matter what music I had on until I bought THRAK. One day >when I had it on, I noticed she wasn't bothering me. At that time, >I didn't yet have a good stereo, only a boombox on a low >shelf in my humble student apartment. I looked >around and there was Chita, sitting directly in front of the >boom box, maybe two feet in front of it and exactly between the >two speakers just staring straight ahead with this look of >intent concentration. And eventually I noticed she did this >every time that CD was on. She didn't always stare, sometimes >she would just lay down and curl up in that same spot. And >she moved as soon as it was over. She never slept there >otherwise. Now I finally have a real stereo with Bose speakers, >so she doesn't have to be in any one spot of the living room >to hear that double trio just right...But she is still less >inclined to purr loudly and make a pest of herself when it's on. So I think this shows that Crimson has some sort of inherent soothing qualities. I as still interested in anyone else who has had similiar experiences. I and several others have been suggesting Crimson to new parents with colic prone babies. So far the response I get is "King Crimson? Are they still around?" Can't wait till THRaK aTTaK arrives. If Julia likes that, then we have a bonafide new Crimson fan! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 23:10:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Dixie Gene Ross Subject: INDOOR GAMES pt 1 Greetings, I would like to express deep graditude to all the Crimson fans who have been royal and loyal through the years and to those who have joined our ranks creating a demand like cohesion tension for this music that I have been so drawn to. With you in mind I submit INDOOR GAMES. So put on your crash helmet, pull down the goggles and peer into the screen. Follow if you will our hyperdimensional flight through The Devil's Triangle: Marine 475, Aviation 545, altitude dropping, the sky turns starless and bible black, the needle's in the red, VROOOM - SNAP - BANG - POP - WALLOP - CRASH - THRAK. This night wounds time... I find myself curbside, bags in hand at the airport when a Cadillac limousine pulls up. I climb inside to find two other Elephant Talkers. As the car takes off we have an interesting discussion of expectation vs. anticipation. Soon as the driver turns into the driveway of the hotel. I read the marque through the window,"CARAVAN HOTEL WELCOMES ELEPHANT TALKERS," It's the ET convention! As we enter the lobby to check in, a small chamber group is performing SONG OF THE GULLS. Very nice. The bellman takes my bags and we enter the elevator. EVENING STAR is playing and I'm thinking, "Expect nothing, but anticipate every moment." We enter my room, the bellman gives me the key and I tip him. Room 734, a room with a view; I like it. The invitation reads: "Banquet at 7:30 pm in the Peacock Room." Just enough time to jump into my tux. I've got to get dressed to go out of my mind. I dart down the hall and enter the elevator, MIDNIGHT BLUE is playing this time. Adjusting my tie, I walk into the Peacock Room. It is gigantic. There are thousands of us here. Elephant Talkers from all over the world dressed to the max. At the head table is our master of ceremonies, Toby, looking quite dashing in his white dinner jacket, real Bond-esque. As I look around the room I notice more than one yellow tuxedo. Toby welcomes us all here and announces because of our combined successes, money is no object, next year's convention will be on a trans-Atlantic cruise on that wonderful ocean-liner the POSEIDON. I'm sure we'll all have a few sailors's tales after that one. Toby then thanks: Daniel, Steve, Ken, Mark, Craig, Bill, Joe, Graham, Claas, Aidan, Hugh, Mark, Awil, John, Paul, Alex, Paul, Mike, Michael, Paolo, and Myra each to his applause. And a special thanks goes out to Olivier who has supplied us all with this fine wine from France. Toby holds his glass high and makes the toast: " Tonight, music is the glass that holds the wine of silence..." A voice cries out, " and gulp gulp gulp sound is the glass empty..." Another screams, " and noise is the glass cracked!" throwing a glass around the place showing the colour of his crimson suspenders! People clam and say, "It wasn't me." Poor chap, he won't be getting any more wine. Not much of a gentleman, too bad. But all's not lost, he wins the special dinner. You guessed it, larks' tongues in aspic. People fish, people beef, I'll have the snapper and, oh yes, hold the glass-eye. After dinner Toby announces that there are Crimson alumni here tonight but they are incognito. This will not be one of those X-Files, or (get a life) Star Trek conventions where you stand in line for hours, meet the star, say "I love you man," and walk away in the afterglow with your quickly scribbled autograph. That simply would not be Elephant Talk. So, if you should discover a Crimson alumnus please do not blow his cover. This way we all can have fun. After the banquet we will meet in the Harlequin Ballroom for INDOOR GAMES, but first we will have a floor show. The floor show starts with the magician from THE GREAT DECEIVER. Dressed similarly to the magician's lovely assistant, who is being levitated in front of our very eyes, are Cadence and Cascade, who serve after dinner chocolates to the crowd. Oh Cadence, I'll have one of those. Next comes on Cousin Silas dressed in King Crimson ball cap, shades and long beard with a bluebonnet in his lapel. Silas leads the crowd in Thrak rhythm clapping. The west end of the room claps in 5 on the 1 and the 4. Then the east end of the room claps in 7 on the 1, the 4, and the 6. This holds up for a while but then breaks down into applause. Thank you Cousin Silas. As the crowd starts to file out of the Peacock Room I over hear voices behind me: "Man, that wine was killer!" In reply, "What did you expect, CHEESEBALLS? You are such a BLOCKHEAD." As the herd of Elephant Talkers parades into the Harlequin Ballroom the first thing I see is a colossal brontosaurus skeleton brilliantly lit from the floor casting ominous shadows on the ceiling high above. Dig them bones. Surrounding the dinosaur is a synergism of separate soundscapes and subtle lighting creating ever-changing atmospheres, that encompass numerous exhibits and events that one can walk through. Something like a mix between a modern art museum and a pinball table. The first exhibit I check out is the orignal cover designs and photography of various albums. God bless Barry Godber. On to the Possible Productions booth. All the latest stuff, a video room (people on the tube - King Crimson) and an audio room (best system I've ever heard). Listen to how Jamie Muir's thunder sheets stand out on LTiA pt 2. Speaking of Jamie Muir check out Jamie's Room of Percussion and Allsorts. Go ahead pick up some mallets and join in. There are 7's and 11's and 13's and 5's and 4's and 8's and 9's and 21's flying about when out of the chaos emerges the second part of B'Boom: "CRASH-CRASH-SNAP-POP-BANG-CRASH-SNAP-POP-BANG-CRASH-CRASH-CRASH- SNAP-POP-BANG-CRASH" (to be continued) Dick Ross ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 23:24:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Dixie Gene Ross Subject: INDOOR GAMES pt 2 We are at the ET Convention in the Harlequin Ballroom at the Caravan Hotel partaking in INDOOR GAMES (see pt 1). Let's check out Tony Levin's Slide Show. Tony's pictures are brought alive on the silent screen, frame by frame. Next we head over to the Easy Money Casino. Care to play poker with the good, the bad and the ugly? Look, there's Toby ever so charming playing bacarat. Looks like he's winning big in more then one way! I'll have to discipline myself. One roll of the dice. One chance is thrown. Don't make mistakes. Interesting, I win a Superman ring. People tire while other people smoke so there is The Sartori in Tangier Smoking Section. Inside there is coffee, pipes, sherbet. Care for an Intergalactic Boogie Expresso? Musicians network. The Menthol King burns one down with Plecostamus Hoover while Big Ears from Maga-Bucks clips another fat cigar. Across the way Dr. Diamond takes all comers at Bagatelle. The tournament's begun. Or would you rather play Lady or the Tiger? (real lady, real tiger) It could be different this time. You may win. Here's a curious event, The March For No Reason. The worthy Captain and his squad of troopers reserving their right to be boring. The Captain comands, "When I say stop, continue." Dimly lit, our next exhibit is on a small stage. A lone wooden stool, a mellotron, a Hiwatt amplifier, a pedalboard, and a 57 Gibson Les Paul Black Beauty. There was a time... This exhibit is guarded by two policeman, armed to the teeth. Down the way past Rembrandt's The Night Watch and Rodney's Tea Room is the King Crimson Barber Shop. I'd like a little off the sides, and dig that quartet. Parked in front is a Norton motorcycle. High bender-trender V R O O O M . That takes us to the next exhibit, The Instruments Of Death. Cat's foot, Iron claw, did you say more? There's even some napalm. It's OK to feel a little fear. There are guns and knives a blunderbuss and hallberd-shaft, a switch-blade and a broken ladder. Broken bones from broken ladder, fractured. Along side is a single tombstone with "FAITH" scratched on it. I'm walking around a serpentine wall when I see her. She is beautiful. She is beautiful. I am breathless, tongue tied, can not speak. She is beautiful. I walk slowly toward her as if walking on air. When I am close enough to touch her all I can do is utter a single syllable. "cool" A nineteen fifty-two Studebaker Coupe, an elegant powder blue, polished magnificently. I open the door and slide behind the wheel. The radio is on playing a specially recorded bebop jam featuring Ian Mc Donald and Mel Collins blowing hot saxes like Charlie Parker and John Coltrane, with Michael and Peter Giles on drums and bass. And dig that early 50's club guitar. Man,this is what Neil and Jack were looking for on the radio when they were on the road. I'm thinking, "To be alone's no injury," when suddenly the other door opens! In plops this intellectual cum groover chick dressed beat formal in black beret and leotard. " It was getting hairy out there, thought I'd better get back to the car," she said. I was a little stunned, "I know I've seen you somewhere before." Pulling off her shades, she looked at me with erudite eyes and said, "I played cello with the chamber group in the lobby." She then opened the glove compartment and pulled out a copy of William S. Burrough's THE TICKET THAT EXPLODED. Opening the book she found a jet-edge envelope with George printed on it. "George?" I asked, pointing to the envelope. "George is the name of a man I know," she said with one eye, tucking the envelope into her black bolero jacket. We talked a short while of the quickening of the new world when she looked out the window. "Uh-oh! I gotta split, ciao!" she said opening the door and tearing off into the shadows. She's gone but there is still a slight scent of neroli in the air. Standing outside the car I notice that they are bringing down the lights. Most of the crowd has gone back up stairs for sex, eat, sleep, drink, dream, but like most conventions when things are coming to an end there usually is a small group ready willing and able to take things one step further. I find myself with just such a group. We quickly come up with the plan. I think we may just pull this off. Together, we head for the elevator. The door opens, we file in. ASTURIAS is playing as we race to the top floor. We sternly look each other eye to eye revealing our commitment to the mission. I feel like I am in an episode of MISSION IMPOSSIBLE. We reach the top floor, the door opens. Strange...that the palms of my hands should be damp with expectancy. Together we walk into Club Mars. Once inside we have 10 seconds. One of the more lovely members of our group distracts the DJ while another more daring member commandeers the sound system, slips in the disc and programs repeat. I grab the mike and announce, "Ladies and Gentleman Elephant Talk and Club Mars proudly presents the first annual GROON dance contest!" Can your heart stand it? All this leaping about. I'm shaking like a leaf now. Do the funky Phobos, walking on the moon. Shake that thang loose! Toby is with us! He is shaken but not stirred. I like the way you look at me, you're laughing too down there inside. If we make it we can all sit back and laugh but... Dick Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 18:39:08 +0100 From: Ron Chrisley Organization: COGS, University of Sussex Subject: ET submission: David Cross Newsletter David Cross Band Newsletter

David Cross Band Newsletter

April, 1996
It's been a while... since the release of the band's third album, Testing to Destruction, but things have been happening. They have played some dates on the continent where they recorded a performance for German TV.

The band has also been working on the new album, tentativley titled Unfinished Business. Two tracks have been recorded with Robert Fripp guesting on guitar and Peter Hammill on vocals. Fripp also donated some further "soundscape" material which may or may not be used on further tracks. During April the band also recorded a new arrangement of "Exiles" with John Wetton on vocals which will go on the new album. If things go even approximately according to plan, the wind is in the right direction, etc. the album should be released late in 1996.

The band are opening for John Wetton at the Astoria in London on the 3rd of May. They will be playing a 45 minute set of the new material. The line-up will be David Cross, Dan Maurer, Mick Paul (bass), Dave Kendal (keyboards) and Peter Claridge (guitar and vocals). Sheila Maloney has taken some time off to look after her new baby born before Xmas, but will return. See you at the Astoria.

RED HOT MUSIC 29 Beethoven Street London W10 4LG Tel: +44 0181 960 1871 Fax: +44 0181 969 1694
ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 16:17:18 -0600 From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (James Hines) Subject: The "real deal" about HORDE I was just browsing the web and (through Elephant Talk) I came across the Papa Bear web page. You should really check this out, it's great! Anyway I saw the tour dates (posted by Tony himself) and the only shows that Crimson will be on the HORDE tour are the ones from Aug 8 - 23. The cities that are included in the dates are Kansas City, St. Louis, Nashville, Cincinatti, Pittsburg, Boston, Ney York, Saratoga, Buffalo, Hartford, and Burlington. So, the rest of us who were only going to HORDE because of Crimson can save our money. BUT, KC will be touring throughout all of June and July so maybe they'll hit your part of the world (Texas??) then. Thanks to those who have done the ET, Possible Productions, and Papa Bear web pages. All three of these look great and are so worth checking out. Thanks, ya'll. June 25 is getting closer, James "THE MAN" Hines cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu ------------------------------ Subject: Missing League of Gentlemen/God Save the Queen tracks? Date: 96-04-22 23:30:38 EDT From: jdepfam at bendnet dot com (Joel M. Depper) Hi everybody. I just picked up God Save the King the other day and it is just fantastic, thank you very much. In fact, I like it so much that I was wondering a few things. Are the tracks cut from the original LoG album to make GSTK any good? If so, does anybody know where to get them? I am willing to pay $$$. And are the Frippertronics excised from GSTQ good? Where can I get those? Any pertinent reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dave P.S. Any idea of what the track list is on the upcoming "Thrang Thrang Gosinbulx?" ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #273 ********************************