Errors-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #272 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 272 Thursday, 18 April 1996 Today's Topics: NEW USA ET LIST MANAGER SOUGHT HORDE Musical snobbery?? RE: Any UK dates in the pipeline? / KC - X / Damage Re: Gold disks ET: RE: Crimson- Is it ever to early to look ahead? Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #271 Re: Michael Brook RE: HORDE HORDE and THRAK Attack RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #271 looking for Damage Michael Brook (more) 1) To Peter and 2) HORDE King Crimson selling out? Sellouts? Nah... Bill Bruford- a gentleman among drummers! Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #270 Gold discs MUSIC LOVERS... READ ME!!! Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #271 HORDE and Crimson Fripp - Sting collaberation General Stuff for Fellow ETers Bill Bruford- a gentleman among drummers! Ian McDonald Crimson at HORDE Re: Gold Discs RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #271 Re: new League Live HORDE - NYC - On Sale 4/20 HORDE Hello & favourite song survey John Wetton UK gigs. Ending of "Postcard From Holland" (none) Spedding/Steading. RE: Manicured Noise New KC interviews now online Administrivia: POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: The DIY List Machine is back! At www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ Visit the *new* ET on the web at www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ** If you want to opt for new 'ET BULLETIN' service, where instead of the whole digest you receive a short email announcing the latest edition is out, and where to read it on the web, email me, toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk, saying: "ET BULLETIN -- YES". ** The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- *** No more "Ugh! How can KC contemplate playing HORDE" stuff please! *** -- Thanks, Toby ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Toby Subject: NEW USA ET LIST MANAGER SOUGHT Hi, many of you will know that the email distribution of ET is handled jointly by myself in the UK, and Keb Bibb in the States. Ken has done a *MARVELLOUS* job over the years, but now has to step down. Thanks Ken! Sorry to see you go! So, we need to find a new list manager for the States. If anyone feels they could take this job on, which would involve maintaining the email list for the USA/Americas (processing bounces, 'add me', 'remove me' requests etc) please contact me direct (toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk). BTW the overall editing and management of ET is done by me, and I also look after the European side of the mailing list. Thanks Toby ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 13:24:42 -0600 (CST) From: John dot P dot Mohan at lawrence dot edu Subject: HORDE Maybe KC is playing HORDE so that Fripp and Co. can put their fellow billmates in their place by showing them what REAL musicians are and just how transparent and pitiful acts like Joan Osbourne are. ------------------------------ From: David Maclennan Subject: Musical snobbery?? Date: 16 Apr 1996 13:30:24 +1300 Why all the kerfuffle over KC appearing at HORDE (whatever HORDE is, but I gather it's some kind of travelling Lollypoploser thang)? Smacks of musical snobbery to me. If playing with the likes of Joan Osborne and various other Gen-X heroes helps turn a few more people onto some quality music, then I'm all for it. Frankly I'd just like to SEE King Crimson live, no matter who they played with! Fat chance in this part of the world, though... David Maclennan, at the bottom of the world (almost) in New Zealand ------------------------------ From: "Brian Thomson, London UK" Subject: RE: Any UK dates in the pipeline? / KC - X / Damage Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:10:05 +-100 Dateline Thu, 11 Apr 1996, Tony Brown wrote: -------- Does anyone know if there's any danger of some Crimson dates here in = Dear Old Blighty?. I seem to remember that KC have toured and missed out the = UK before - not that I blame them, the music scene here being so blinkered. -------- I know, it's a pain they haven't scheduled any London (at least) gigs = this time round. The nearest to me would be Cologne, Germany - it's just = not cricket, chaps! -------- And one thing chaps, if you're at the planning stage for UK = gigs.....PLEASE DON'T DO THE ALBERT HALL. The acoustics in there just don't suit you!. -------- I Second That Emotion - RAH is too refined in one sense, yet too common = in another - they have to let in we, the unwashed, and they haven't = appeared too happy about it. And the acoustics... well, the place was = designed in the 1870s, and you can only do so much to an old building. I think also the choice of venue didn't help the hip factor one little = bit, either. It's definitely out of fasion in London. Since KC are = effectively a rock band (in London terms), there's absolutely no reason = why they should be wary of playing a Rock venue. Venues to consider: $ Shepherds Bush Empire - I've heard good things about the acoustics. $ The Forum - convenient and well known, but acoustically problematic = and a bit rowdy - last band I saw there was Anthrax!=20 $ Hackney Empire - very theatrical, known for comedy as well. $ Alexandra Palace - different, would be a bold move. Venue best known = for the Brit Awards and Top OF The Pops Xmas "concerts" (I may be = biased, I live ten minutes walk away!) $ Anything outdoors - like one of the summer Finsbury Park concerts = (with the Sex Pistols? NO!) Or even Hyde Park revisited? Avoid:=20 $ Any little grungy place - the Marquee is dead, most of the others are = going the same way. $ Anything too formal - RAH, Queen Elizabeth Hall (except the foyer!), = etc. Being hip in the London music scene (i.e. attracting a profitable crowd) = means getting a feature in Time Out magazine, the weekly gigs & culture = guide. Very elitist, opinionated and anti-pretentious, but I think they = could be convinced of KC's relevance. Turn Robert into an eccentric mad = scientist Wurzel, and Adrian into an brash iconoclastic "Noo Yawker", a = "mismatched partnership", and you're off. (Oh, dear!) About the next Crimson; I wouldn't want to be accused of wishful = thinking, but remember that the Sylvian / Fripp / Gunn / Marotta band = that appeared on "The First Day" would have been KC if RF had had his = way! The Fripp / Peart idea sounds good, too. Or, how about: Atavarooom: Robert Fripp - Guitar, Mellotron, Soundscapes Allan Holdsworth - Guitar, MIDI controllers, John Holmes guitars Bill Bruford / Chad Wackerman - Drums, SDX, MIDI controllers UltraThrak 42: Robert Fripp - Guitar, Mellotron, Soundscapes Mark King - Bass, Vocals, programming Billy Currie - keyboards, viola, programming. or imagine all past & present members of KC, Yes, ELP, Asia (eh?), UK, = and Genesis, on one stage! Enough for one day! Cheers. *---------------------------------------------- Brian Thomson - London, UK bnt at ibm dot net an empty soul with a full opinion... ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Gold disks Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 16:33:33 +0900 From: Masaki Kurokawa Yes, I've also heard that gold disks are logically supposed to sound better than ordinary disks. And, I've also heard that gold disks endure longer than ordinary ones.Hmm...English is difficult....I wish you can make out what I'm saying. I mean, a compact disk WON'T allow you a lifetime of listening, unlike it is believed to. After 15 years or so from the pressing, it will no longer be able to be played. But as for gold disks, they are supposed to last for a longer time, 30 years or something like that. But it can't be proved - because there is no compact disk manifactured 15 years ago. Anyway, remember that after a few decades you can't listen to the CD you own right now. Thanx, +-------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ |Masaki KUROKAWA |"I don't want to know | | c/o KEIO University,JAPAN| Anything tomorrow brings will be | |e-mail: s95336mk at sfc dot keio dot ac dot jp | When this hour is | |http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~s95336mk | yesterday's ghost" - Julianne Regan| +-------------------------------------+------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 07:34:34 EDT From: whatthat at nando dot net Subject: ET: RE: Crimson- Is it ever to early to look ahead? Actually King Crimson could probably disavow all prog-rockers before (except for Steve Hillage and Miquette Giraudy) and become RF -- Devices LX Paterson -- DJ FSOL -- visuals Youth & Ben Watkins -- grooves Steve Hillage -- delay unit Miquette Giraudy -- space whisper Bill Drummond & Jimi Cauty -- madness, art-terrorism, Illuminati references that would be a ten-piece then, wouldn't it? They wouldn't make albums per se -- they'd do something net oriented and go on at four in the morning when you went to see them. And then Bill and Jimi wouldn't talk about it for 23 years -- they'd simply sabotage the Conan O'Brien show in some outrageous way. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 06:39:07 -0700 From: tcona at ix dot netcom dot com (Anthony J. Cona,Jr. ) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #271 Does anyone have any idea about what Crimson may be playing on the new summer tour in Europe. I hope they decide to play some other older Crimson material. I think the newer lineup could do a great job on a tune like Sailor's Tale. Let's hope they pull a big surprise and offer some classic Crimson material that's been long overdue.Of course we all hope they also offer up some new material that hasn't been recorded yet. Are there any tour dates for the USA yet? KING CRIMSON RULES!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 08:39 CDT From: trex at skypoint dot com (Ryan Sutter) Subject: Re: Michael Brook I have been reading all the talk about Michael Brook and I have a few things to add. I only recently found out about him when I borrowed 'Cobalt Blue' from a friend and was very impressed. However, I discovered that I had owned a cassette with music of his for a very long time. There is a soundtrack album to a movie called 'Captive' that was recorded by Michael Brook and U2's The Edge. It is fairly good and has one notable feature that makes it an interesting curiosity. This soundtrack has a song called 'Heroin' sung by then unknown Irish female vocalist...Sinead O'Conner. It is the earliest song on tape of her that is available as far as I know. This one is a little hard to find, but if you do, pick it up. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 10:13:08 EDT From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) Subject: RE: HORDE matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) writes: > >Also, HORDE has >gotten the official MTV stamp of complete overexposure recently (due to >Blues Traveler IMO) so does this mean that RF & co. are attempting to >(shudder) sell out? Could someone please explain to me why people like Loren think it's wrong for a good band to be popular as well? Why should other people's opinions and buying patterns affect your opnion of the music? Would "Discipline" become a lousy album if it became a top-10 seller? As for "selling out", remember that even good musicians have to eat. If you consistently write material that's only bought by a small group of loyal fans, you aren't going to earn much. Perhaps RF & co. don't want to work day jobs for their bread. It may also be that they want to build up a nice nest-egg so they won't have to worry about sales when they release their next album. Bill Bruford has stated that he played with Yes on Union entirely because the money was enough to keep Earthworks going for a few years. I wouldn't be surprised if RF and BB want to make a lot of money now so they won't have to worry about it when they go to work on later projects (both solo and KC). >I think KC is obscure enough that people could mistake them for an up and >coming alterna-sensation. What does obscurity have to do with this? But you're right in that much of KC's older material (like Red and Discipline) fits in very nicely with today's "alternative" music. It's almost funny how KC's style seems to become mainstream a few years after the band moves on to something else. >well it's goodbye. Solong. Arrivederci. Don't forget to write. Bon voyage. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:54:21 -0400 From: Khosatral at aol dot com Subject: HORDE and THRAK Attack Hello fellow snobs! What exactly would be wrong with Crimson using HORDE to reach people who have the misfortune to actually *like* Joan Osborne? (Aside: In the US she has polluted the airwaves for months with an insipid tune written by Cyndi Lauper's former cohorts.) Or any of the poor souls who have never heard truly challenging, mature music? If Fripp can use Virgin's muscle (and $) to get Crimson to headline a festival tour with *some* track record of attracting adventurous people and get plenty of Exposure for a new release, (THRAK Attack) where, exactly, is the sell out? Should Crimson not tour, lest someone attend who hasn't been locked in a closet with Red for ten years? Admit only Guitar Craft veterans? To me, taking on the challenge of playing to audience not full of Crimheads is ballsy and exciting. It tells me Fripp, Belew and gang *know* they are kick ass band. They are not playing it safe, No Pussyfooting here. And to cover plowed ground from last year, Fripp *cannot* sell out. Too few buyers. He/KC are fringe performers in the big picture. So go get your HORDE tix. Drag people who don't like Crimson. Sit through the crud and the good stuff, be nice to the MTV "reporters" and see if live Crimson doesn't open some ears and minds. BTW, www.ffly.com (Firefly) has an interview with Belew in it's Flypaper. >From that, THRAK Attack seems to be a Zappa-like tapestry of the middle improv parts of Thrak. Cool. Later, Kho ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 13:27:53 EDT From: "MODERN ANGEL O:)" Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #271 Hello... I've been quiet for a bit, but figured I'd add my two cents' worth (those overseas can figure for rates of exchange ;) ). On the David Sylvian web page, the address of which I seem to have misplaced, it mentions that one reason for the breakup of RTC was the Sylvian's insistance on total artistic control over the project. Basically, Virgin wanted the Japan name on the finished product, and DS said that he'd take not only full control of things, but also full responsibility for their outcome. Of course, I'm paraphrasing like crazy here, but from some of what I've read about DS (in- cluding posts on here) he does seem a bit of a control freak, so it's possible that this was the case. Just a nitpicky point: Someone said that "Cloud About Mercury" was the Torn CD featuring Mick Karn; though Mick played on the tour that preceded this CD, it's actually Tony Levin who plays bass and stick on it. Karn can be heard on "Door X" (1990), which also features Bruford. The song "Lion of Boaz" features some especially expressive bass on it that's pure Karn. HORDE: KC, IMHO, aren't selling out. Bruford and Belew have both been over- heard to complain that KC never got the exposure it deserved; perhaps the festival would be an opportunity for the band to broaden the base of its fans. I don't think the sonic character of the band would really be altered, and as long as they maintain artistic integrity, who could begrudge them the opportunity to make a few bucks while they're at it? Besides, this stuff costs money; this could be what bankrolls the next big KC venture, or perhaps could help to keep a few "second and third division" projects like Fripp's "Soundscapes" and the CGT afloat... not a bad deal, if you ask me. "Damage", in my opinion, is indispensable. Not only does it foreshadow the current KC sound, it also features some amazing musicianship... this could be hazarded as a possible version of a once-and-future KC. Another "dream lineup": R. Fripp: Guitar P. Metheny: Guitar B. Bruford: Percussion T. Levin: Bass, Stick, Vocals Pedro Aznar (This guy plays darn near anything you throw at him, and has a great voice for background textures) David Sylvian: Keyboards, rhythm guitar, voice Other people could be added/subtracted at will... I could almost (but not quite) see KC becoming not unlike Bill Laswell's Material: very free-form lineup, with some very interesting sonic possibilities. Enough out of me... thanks for listening. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:54:13 -0500 (EST) From: FISHBOY Subject: looking for Damage Hello, There's been a lot of talk about Damage recently. I'd heard a few things about it in the past, but now I've heard so many ravings that I just need to hear it for myself, so I've gotta ask: would anyone out there be willing to make a tape of this CD for me? I'll trade live stuff (not much Crimson, though), blanks, whatever. I haven't been able to find the disc, which is supposedly out of print. Thanks a bunch, Andy Acunzo aacunzo at ccmail dot sunysb dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:57:37 -0400 From: ricjoly at odyssee dot net (Richard Joly) Subject: Michael Brook (more) FYI : Michael Brook also has done work with an italian singer named Teresa Di Sio, on record only released in Italy AFAIK: from "Sindarella suite" (1987) *) La vera storia di Lupita Mendera (1987) Lyrics: Teresa de Sio Music: De Sio, Brook, Eno Teresa De Sio: voice, piano (solo) Piero Pel=F9: voice Michael Brook: Infinite guitar, buzz-bass, synthesizer, electronic percussion, treatments. Brian Eno: piano, synthesizer, treatments Mixed by Michael Brook at Strong Studios, London Sound Engineer: Alan Jacoby (above notes courtesy a friend in Italy. I have not heard this) Brook has also done film music for IMAX, and has played w. Brian Ferry. I really like the collaborative work he's done with P.Nooten. hope this helps -- Richard Joly http://www.odyssee.net/%7Ericjoly/ononet.html ( ONO-net Pages ) ------------------------------ From: Thom Smith Subject: 1) To Peter and 2) HORDE Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 15:57:00 PDT Peter, RE: Damage I tried to reach your e-mail but could not get through. Could you write me at smitht at cpcuiia dot org Thanks! RE: HORDE I talked to Veronica at Catalyst. She said that KC will join the tour during August but wasn't sure which two weeks. She did say that they *will* do the Pittsburgh show, but perhaps not Philly. For anyone regarding _Damage_, I am desperately looking for it. I am aware that it is out of print. Peter said something about Vechmere CD section. Please help me. Snivellingly yours, Thom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:28:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Andrew Suber Subject: King Crimson selling out? Hello.... I would like to thank all who cleared up the Ian Mc(Mac)Donald mystery. I am a young person who doesn't know a lot about music. Also, the Beatles "Lizard" reference increases my respect for the cleverness of their lyrics. In regard to the HORDE/King Crimson sellout question, I bring up the thorny question of "can I love a band that is thoughtlessly adored by millions of morons who can't even read? Those who would buy a extended dance mix of "Mairzy Doats" if it were pushed enough on MTV and ZROCK?" In my own mind the answer is "YES"."Zooropa" is one of the few albums (in my opinion) that is not only a good listen, but is also a super-duper smash pop hit. Most purists will disagree with me, but Eno was in full subtle effect drowning out those cornball rock-anthem Edge super echo chamber guitar solos. Delicacy and cheeseball sentiment can exist simultaneously and spawn a sound that can be appealing. "Lemon" is such a great song, the last minute and a half, where those strings drown and weave.....no lyrics....no sentiment...nothing but Mr. Eno building a beautiful system of atmosphere. The average person can not appreciate that, and grows bored with artful manipulation of sound. There has to be an image, the more outlandish, the more rebellious, the more money you stand to make. Brian Eno has done every thing that Trent Reznor could ever hope to do. But he did it with style and grace, and did not appeal to the psychotic delusions and fears of the unwashed masses. King Crimson has been defiled countless times, but I trust they will endure. The public will break down first. You will see MTV play instrumentals, youths talk of counterpoint, codas, and chromatic tones before King Crimson breaks down completely and becomes a Pop sensation. They are intelligent people making music for intelligent people, not (such as Madonna or the Beatles) intelligent people manipulating and leading the average, easily fooled, person. Forgive me for my outpouring. Andrew P.S. I'll like to thank Toby for having and editing such a cool newsletter. I'd also like to thank all the KC experts out there who have made this an excellent, intelligent newsletter (especially if they can put up my simplistic, rambling, boring, uninformed postings!). ------------------------------ From: Bradley Stewart Cook Subject: Sellouts? Nah... Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:29:09 -0500 (CDT) There was talk in the last et suggesting that Crimson was "selling out." This is a term that is thrown around WAY too liberally and usually in the context of "I used to like those guys until they sold out." translation: "I listened to this band until other people started listening to them, now I do not want to look too trendy, so I compromised my musical taste for the sake of my image." In all seriousness..."selling out" is not interchangeable with "successful." Sometimes one does indeed accompany the other, but selling out takes more than making yourself known outside of an esoteric group of nerds such as us. :) If Crimson played Lollapalooza (popfest 96) and didn't compromise the quality of the music, would they be "selling out"? No. Selling out would involve compromising your ideas or what you are doing for the sake of making money. I say go for it. If Crimson can find a larger audience and make money off of the same quality music that they are making now then more power to them. Go get 'em, tiger. Now if they do an 'unplugged' I will definitely start to wonder. ;) Brad Cook bradcook at tamu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:01:39 -0500 (EST) From: smitjw01 at holmes dot ipfw dot indiana dot edu Subject: Bill Bruford- a gentleman among drummers! This is only my second post to ET, my first being a bit stupid, but I just wanted to relate an experience I rank as one of the highlights of my young life. I was fortunate to see Crimson in early June 95 in Cincinnati Ohio. My friend Andy and I arrived about 3 hours early for the show and chatted with some fellow Crimheads for a bit. There was a group of guys who claimed to have snuck back stage and caught a glimpse of Tony warming-up. They also claimed to have been personally kicked out by Bill Bruford! Andy and I (being die-hard Crimheads, as well as huge Bruford disciples) HAD to give it a shot! We wandered down the alley behind the Theatre, trying to look inconspicuous, checking the stage doors, all of which were locked. Alas! We gave up and meandered dejectedly towards the front of the venue. Upon turning the corner Andy stopped, grabbed my arm, and said "LOOK! There's Bruford!" Sure enough, there was the man, the world's greatest drummer, standing outside smoking a cigarette calmly. He was flanked by a few fans and conversed pleasantly with them. We approached him nervously, never having met one of our idols in similar circumstances, but he dissuaded such tension with an almost-overly-friendly "Hi guys!" and actually extended HIS hand to US! We spent a few minutes chatting with him about Yes, ABWH, and recent KC things, all of which he seemed happy to share. If only we had gotten a photo! We had a camera (albeit a crappy one) and actually got to pose with him, but the picture didn't turn out! *sob* Still, it was an incredible experience. Even though Bill is one of the more outgoing members of Crimson (hardly a "Fripp" about things) I still treasure this intimate experience in meeting him and hope that maybe it could happen again (this time with a functioning camera!) Jason W. Smith Ft. Wayne, IN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 18:04:06 EDT From: Matt Dawson Organization: University of Louisville Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #270 All this thrakking about damage... I do agree that it's Fripp's best work since the 80's Crimson band. Fripp wails As to the point that The Seated One doesn't play everything...this is true. I am a proud owner of a Sylvian/Fripp boot video and can attest to the fact that both Brook and Sylvian hold their own. Sylvian even takes the first solo in "God's Monkey"! Brook plays an excellent solo in "Brightness Falls" and alot of stuff that I had originally attributed to the Crimson King. However, Fripp still wails on it, much more than he does on Thrak/Vrooom/B'Boom. Both Sylvian and Fripp said that "the first day" and "damage" were the first of many collaborations. I hope so. Although I just heard on the Sylvian list that The Moody One is working with Bill Frisell on his latest album which is being recorded as I post. I had hoped that Fripp would at least make an appearance... no news yet. Keep Thrakking, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 01:33:42 -0700 From: Jeremy Ulrey Organization: N/A Subject: Gold discs I don't know much about the physical properties of the gold (except that it's supposed to reduce stray reflected laser beams from the CD player), but I think it's well worth mentioning that, while most CDs are mass produced assembly line style, the gold CDs (or Mobile Fidelity at least) are all recorded directly from the master copy. This alone should result in greatly superior sound. But I agree that in order to tell the difference you probably need a fairly high dollar stereo system. Also, it you're a fan of heavily distorted music (grunge, punk, etc.) and you were to listen to two different productions of a clean recording your ears would probably not be trained to hear the difference in ambience. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 00:23:21 -0800 From: dembones at mind dot net (Demian Norvell) Subject: MUSIC LOVERS... READ ME!!! Greetings fellow Crimson fans! After searching unsuccesfully for a source of intelligent, literate album reviews, commentaries, and/or just objective opinions, I am taking upon myself to provide such a source. My thoughts are to give a bi-weekly song by song review of a given album, chosen either by random selection or request. This would then be sent via e-mail to anyone interested in recieving it. This will not be limited to any specific genre or musical style, (although inevitably it will include King Crimson, one of my favorite of favorite groups!) It is my intention as a music lover to provide a little insight into artists/groups that folks have never heard of, or inspire someone to give a look to something they would never otherwise look at. Or maybe just give my two cents. If my experiment is succesful, I can forsee providing soundfiles or pictures to accompany my reviews. If you are interested in recieving such a publication, please e-mail me at... Dembones at mind dot net Demian Norvell Songwriter/Engineer/Producer Applegate Studios- Ruch, Or ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 01:23:34 -0400 From: recengnr at athens dot net (TL) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #271 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 14:51:49 -0700 (MST) From: signals at IMAP1 dot ASU dot EDU Subject: Re: Gold Discs >Someone mentioned the gold disc of Damage, and a reply came that the gold >disc is more of a gimmick than a sound improvement. Well . . . that >actually depends on the quality of the sound system you are listening on. >Gold discs do indeed improve reflectivity because the gold molecules are >smaller than aluminum molecules, thereby reducing refraction. What you get >in return is a warmer, fuller sound. But if you have a low quality stereo, >you will not be able to tell the difference. Believe me, there IS a big >difference in sound quality. Tom J Unfortunately, this is not so. Firstly, refraction would occur in the material that binds the disc, the "clear stuff". Secondly, what is represented on the disc itself is binary. In theory, if it can be read, then the output is the same. DA converters make a difference here, as well as the players ability to read the disc without introcing errors. There are a great many improvements that can be made in compact disc generally. The use of higher sampling rates would reduce high frequency distortion and raise the bandwidth. Higher bit words would increase dynamic range and reduce low level distortion. The use of a blue laser would allow smaller pit diameters on the disc, and allow a much greater storage capacity. However, bits being encased in gold are still bits, and they will not sound fuller, or warmer, or more like Ethyl Merman and less like a no. 2 pencil. Tom Lewis Athens, GA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:29:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "CHRISTOPHER K. MAHMOOD" Subject: HORDE and Crimson Yes, KC playing at HORDE is quite depressing..although at least it's not LaloSPAMooza. As for KC trying for a shot at mainstream, fear not. If you read through Young Person's Guide, you'll see that KC has played with some pretty sucky bands (Aerosmith, et al.) I say it's just to finance the new album and tour. -ckm p.s. Damage is one of my most-played albums, although (as a previous poster pointed out) some of it does sound like Duran Duran... albeit very cool Duran Duran. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:45:20 -0500 From: David Gayle Subject: Fripp - Sting collaberation Alas! The double trio is now history! Hot off the presses, a new collaberation between Sting (Gordon Sumner) and Robert(the cheerful) Fripp! All hail Sting Crimson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:54:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "THIS NIGHT WOUNDS TIME..." Subject: General Stuff for Fellow ETers Hello. This is my first posting to ET, and I just wanted to point out a few things. First, I wanted to thank Toby for putting this thing together. THere are some cool ideas expressed here and I look forward to receiving them. I just wanted to point out a few things: 1) How come the subscribers beat stuff to death here? I like to talk about specifics as much as the next guy, but I've noticed this pattern ever since I joined ET. When I first got on everyone was talking about Thela Hun Ginjeet. Now the favorite subject is "Damage" by Sylvian/Fripp. This is all well and good, but it gets tiresome when 1/2 of the newsletter is about it. I didn't mind as much with the Thela Hun Ginjeet because I knew the song, etc, etc. Although I do own a copy of "The First Day", I feel that I speak for more than a few Crimson fans when I say that I don't have "Damage", nor do I have an expensive stereo system. Hopefully this pattern will stop. A few issues ago Sasha Wolf put in a very interesting theory about "The Mincer" off SaBB. I would like to see more stuff like that here...it would make the newsgroup more diverse and interesting. 2) KC does HORDE - Ummm, I'm not sure what to think of this yet. If they are going to play in my area (Philadelphia PA) on this tour, then I will go. If not, then I probably will not. I don't believe that the band, especially Robert, will like the mentality of the HORDE fans. Having spent some time at one HORDE show, and knowing how much non-sober fans displease Robert, he will probably want to pull off. Also, whoever thinks KC is a "great up-and-coming new band" should crawl back into their Alanis Morrissette and Better than Ezra shells. Come on! 3) KC live stuff from the 1970's - Someone wrote in the last newsletter that they wondered why Doctor Diamond (aka Train to Hell, aka Underground Train) was never put on an album. Perhaps we should be grateful that it wasn't. I really like that song, don't get me wrong, but KC is a tremendous live band and always has been. Before I got LTiA, I got a bootleg CD called "Book of Saturday" which has mostly LTiA stuff on it. After hearing that and buying LTiA, I was dissapointed. The songs on LTiA are great, but they are much better live, particularly Easy Money. Doctor D/Train to Hell/etc. is a really energetic song which I really couldn't see as being all that great in the studio. Enough pomposity from me. :) Later, mikael (resplendent in divergence) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:01:39 -0500 (EST) From: smitjw01 at holmes dot ipfw dot indiana dot edu Subject: Bill Bruford- a gentleman among drummers! This is only my second post to ET, my first being a bit stupid, but I just wanted to relate an experience I rank as one of the highlights of my young life. I was fortunate to see Crimson in early June 95 in Cincinnati Ohio. My friend Andy and I arrived about 3 hours early for the show and chatted with some fellow Crimheads for a bit. There was a group of guys who claimed to have snuck back stage and caught a glimpse of Tony warming-up. They also claimed to have been personally kicked out by Bill Bruford! Andy and I (being die-hard Crimheads, as well as huge Bruford disciples) HAD to give it a shot! We wandered down the alley behind the Theatre, trying to look inconspicuous, checking the stage doors, all of which were locked. Alas! We gave up and meandered dejectedly towards the front of the venue. Upon turning the corner Andy stopped, grabbed my arm, and said "LOOK! There's Bruford!" Sure enough, there was the man, the world's greatest drummer, standing outside smoking a cigarette calmly. He was flanked by a few fans and conversed pleasantly with them. We approached him nervously, never having met one of our idols in similar circumstances, but he dissuaded such tension with an almost-overly-friendly "Hi guys!" and actually extended HIS hand to US! We spent a few minutes chatting with him about Yes, ABWH, and recent KC things, all of which he seemed happy to share. If only we had gotten a photo! We had a camera (albeit a crappy one) and actually got to pose with him, but the picture didn't turn out! *sob* Still, it was an incredible experience. Even though Bill is one of the more outgoing members of Crimson (hardly a "Fripp" about things) I still treasure this intimate experience in meeting him and hope that maybe it could happen again (this time with a functioning camera!) Jason W. Smith Ft. Wayne, IN ------------------------------ From: "Eric Best" Subject: Ian McDonald Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 21:03:14 +-1000 Greetings ETers! In issue 270 Andrew Suber asked: > Is the Ian McDonald on the Fairport Convention's self titled album the > original clarinetist/saxophonist/etc. in KC? In the Fairport Convention all > that Ian did was sing and play Jew's Harp; did he become an amazing > musician in 1 year's time? Is "Ian McDonald" the name of 1 out of every 5 > Scots? Can any one help me with my ignorance? The answer is no. Ian MacDonald changed his surname to Matthews. He sang on Fairport's first three albums, including their superb 'Unhalfbricking'. He then lead the band Matthews Southern Comfort and was also in the band Plainsong. Matthews has made, and indeed still is making, numerous solo albums. My personal favorite is 'If you could see thro' my eyes', which features such luminaries as Sandy Denny, and my other favorite guitar player, Richard Thompson. A magical album! Ian can be seen singing with Fairport and a very young but blistering Richard Thompson on the Island video 'It all comes 'round again'. Judy Dyble, with whom he shared vocal duties, was involved with KC in their formative days as 'Giles, Giles and Fripp'. Yours, Eric Best ebest at world dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:27:29 +0000 From: khoffman at giantfood dot com (Kurt Hoffman) Subject: Crimson at HORDE I hate to see what seems to be going on right now with some people re: Crimson playing at HORDE, which seems to be being perceived as some kind of sell out. As nears as I can remember, HORDE was supposed to be a lower level alternative to Lollapalooza's second or third incarnation. As such, it seems to me the intention was to provide a showcase for start-up or lesser known bands in an outdoor, bargain (relatively speaking) environment. The fact that Blues Travelor has broken (with the implied consequence that now HORDE will be major bands) seems to me to be irrelevent to the actual process of the show. Personaly, I like the idea that I will be able to (potentialy) see Crimson and Morphine for one price, maybe (just maybe) hear a band or two that I have not heard before (and maybe even like them), all in an outdoor environment. I mean, seriously, who feels that Hyde Park in '69 was a sell out? (Was it '69? Does it matter? Mybe it was a sell out. I wasn't there.). And this protective (read snobby) attitude about who should or shouldn't be exposed to Crimson! I've spent a decent part of my life trying to introduce as many people as possible to them, for various and sundry reasons including helping sales for artists I like, which may mean that they get to put out more product, opening up peoples ears to the potentials of music beyond mainline commercial, etc. And if the fear is that all at once ET will be crowded by messages from new Crimson fans who might like other music too, well then maybe just maybe a little new blood might not be a bad thing. Anyway, enough bile (hopefully). My one request at this point is tollerance for the tastes of those who might just like more than King Crimson (I doubt seriously that most of the ETers taste and mine line up), because ultimately I think we don't want to start sounding like Buchannonites preacing Monroe Doctrine isolationism with our love for Crimson. Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 20:19:59 +0800 From: caveport at singnet dot com dot sg (Peter Cave) Subject: Re: Gold Discs Hi, I would like to clear up the issue of gold plated CD's. The main reason for gold plating is that it does not corrode. The coating on conventional CD's have a certain amount of trapped air inside as a result of the manufacturing process. The trapped air can cause corrosion on aluminium CD's under less than ideal conditions. So, the aim of the gold coating is for preservation of the quality of the CD's over long time periods. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 11:15:46 PDT From: SteveSmith at kochint dot com Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #271 Regarding my long-winded post to ET (v95 #271) concerning Rain Tree Crow, a kind soul was quick to send me one correction which I think is important enough to warrant my eating a little (Rain Tree) Crow in public: The bassist on David Torn's highly recommended ECM album "Cloud About Mercury" is not Mick Karn of Japan and RTC fame, but rather Tony Levin himself! (Tony, if you're reading this -- SORRY!) Mick Karn did the subsequent tour when Tony was unavailable. Actually, this makes acquisition of "Cloud" even more imperative for anyone sufficiently serious enough to be on ET. Boy is my face Crimson... Steve Smith SteveSmith at kochint dot com "Confusion will be my epitaph..." - Peter Sinfield ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 12:27:22 -0400 From: Mulugalb at aol dot com Subject: Re: new League Live Hi - Looking over the new release section of Possible Prod. I see a Live League of Gentlemen recording down the pipe. I wondered if we could discuss this Fripp-era which I regard as a carreer highlight. Having seen this band live and having three different live boots (one vinyl two cassettes) I can safely say that this band was never really captured on the one recording that was released. Lots of good material and great playing never made it on the album and I look forward to hearing this new release, it will be a pleasant departure from the heavy krimso stuff.....so..thoughts ?? metin/mulugalb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 13:26:02 PDT From: Bob Gottesman Subject: HORDE - NYC - On Sale 4/20 Saw an ad that states tickets go on-sale 4/20 at 9AM for the HORDE in NYC on 8/16. Tickets are $35.00. King Crimson is listed fourth under Blues Traveler, Lenny Kravitz and Rusted Root. Groups below that are listed in smaller letters. The concert will be held at Downing Stadium on Randall's Island. Bob Gottesman *------------------------------------- Name: Bob Gottesman E-mail: Bob Gottesman Date: 04/17/96 Time: 13:26:02 This message was sent by Chameleon *------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 08:31:00 -0700 From: cdosem at halcyon dot com (Sarah Melching Christian Overbey) Subject: HORDE I too old and subscribe to the net instead of MTV - What is this HORDE thingy anyway? Christian Seattle, Washington, dot dot dot cdosem at halcyon dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 12:08:09 -0600 (MDT) From: bcodere at agt dot net (Bruce Codere) Subject: Hello & favourite song survey Greetings all, I've been on the list since #265 & wish to make this contribution, finally. I got on the list just in time to see the results of the favourite album survey. I was pleasantly amused to see how closely to my tastes the results of the survey turned out. I would like to offer my services for the compilation of our favourite songs by KC. Anyone who wants to e-mail me with their votes is more than welcome to. May I make the suggestion that we divide the survey into two categories, instrumental & vocal favorites? I await replies. I suppose I should mention how my interest in Crimso began. I was at a particularly uninspired time in my life, actually. I was just hanging around home one day when ItCotCK was played on CHOM-FM out of Montreal. I think it was 1980. The DJ actually cut off the song during The Dance of the Puppets! So he redeemed himself by playing the whole song, which was fine by me. An acquaintance of mine wasa Crimhead & he taped the albums I hadn't find in stores that summer. Eventually I got the early stuff on North American vinyl, then British vinyl, & finally Japanese vinyl except for ItWoP & USA. Yes I have Earthbound & Cheerful on japanese vinyl. At one point I had Beat, but when I moved from Quebec to Alberta I left it behind. I'm now adding slowly but surely to my collection on CD. I had a chance to see KC in Vancouver last summer. I even had the tickets, even if the seats were lousy. I still have the tickets, as a matter of fact. I got a job that put me on the road a few weeks before the performance date & there was no way to get time off! I suppose I'll see them eventually... I will post an awesome experience I had while listening to LTiA in '83 or so, but it deserves seperate mention. & finally, does anyone out there know the name of the French band whose guitarist is/was Patrick ______, & who put out a track Hommage to KC on either a solo or group album. I never bought the album when had the chance & it's begun to haunt me. I would really appreciate anyone's help. Regards, Bruce History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes. - Mark Twain ------------------------------ From: nhi695 at abdn dot ac dot uk Subject: John Wetton UK gigs. Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:55:41 +0100 (BST) OK, KC may not be paying us british fans a visit on their Euro 'Thrak Attak' tour (which is a cause of personal distress) but John Wetton is. He has 2 UK (that is British rather than UK the band (which has ofcourse itself 'reformed' to give us an album this summer (featuring John, Eddie Jobson and with guests Bill Bruford, Robert Fripp (I'm not sure I believe this!) and that IT BITES guitarist whose name I can never remember...)) gigs. 3rd May is at the Estoria, London and 4th May is Haringthorpe Recreation Centre, Rotherham (why Rotherham?). Apparently the gigs feature John with a band ie. not acoustic (as with recent gigs supporting SAGA, I believe). Oh and I think he has an acoustic album coming out - anybody know more solid details? British King Crimson fans alarmed by the lack of a UK gig on the 'Thrak Attak' tour: I advise you to write to KC management at the address given on the web page. If we make enuff noise you never know..... Jase. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:01:22 -0400 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Ending of "Postcard From Holland" Hi all I just picked up Adrian's excellent "Here" album (9 bucks!). and listened to it all in one sitting. Those of you who have it know about the ending of "A Postcard From Holland". To my ears it sounds very much like some RF soundscaping with some lower register Tony stick and Adrian's twittering solo. Did Adrian do all of this or was it uncredited guest appearances? I also just picked up the CD version of "The Cheerful Insanity of..." and the additional RF track,"Under the Sky", could very well have been included on ITCotCK, IMHO. A note to the Double Trio: Just Say No to H.O.R.D.E.!!!! Cheers, CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. --J.G. Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:08:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrance L Kalka II The details on the CD Bootleg "Manicured Noise" are as follows: It was recorded on June 15, 1995 - the band was somewhere in the midwest, but I have forgotten where. I guess these aren't ALL the details. The tracks are as follows: Frame By Frame Dinosaur (with the middle quiet section cut out) Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream Red Elephant Talk Larks' II Two Stix-> Indiscipline One Time Matte Kudesai VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM (fades out at end. . .why???) (fades into)Coda:Marine 475 Walking On Air The edits are the manufacturers, not the band's. The sound quality is pretty good for an audience bootleg - Mastelotto sticks out in particular. High points are Red, SSEDD, VROOOM, 475, and Walking. Adrian's seems a little tired. For RF's (and anyone else's info) I did not pay a dime to hear this bootleg. I have a tape of it, if anyone is interested in copies or trading. Peace Terry ------------------------------ Subject: Spedding/Steading. Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 22:25:44 PDT From: Ed Korczynski OOPS, My mistake. It's not Chris Spedding, I think the violinists name was Walter Steading, or something like that. -edo -- ***************************************************************************** "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." "Fruit flies like a banana." -Noam Chomsky -Groucho Marx **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 11:35:00 +0300 (EET DST) From: Tamas Vilagi Subject: RE: Manicured Noise Hello folks! The tracks on Manicured Noise run thusly: 1. Frame by Frame 2. Dinosaur 3. One Time 4. Red 5. Matte Kudesar (sic) 6. People 7. Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream 8. V`room V`room (sic) 9. Stickxs 10. Indiscipline 11. The Talking Drum (Elephant Talk actually) 12. LTiA pt II 13 V`room (sic) + coda 14. Walking on Air (encore) It`s a digital audience recording with excellent sound quality. The package is quite nice too, using the THRAK images, ie. car etc. The inner sleeve is actually part of the ItWoP cover. No, I dont know why. Recorded in Minneapolis 06/16/95. It`s on the Ride That Tiger (RTT) label. More of this please! Byyeee! Tamas Vilagi University of Helsinki, Finland ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:55:37 -0600 From: tim siefkes Subject: New KC interviews now online Greetings. Some of the faithful E-T readers may have missed seeing the article and interviews with members of KC in the March issue of "Guitar" Magazine. (I know I* can't keep with everything out there....) This article featured a (somewhat concise) interview with Mr. Fripp, as well as Adrian Belew, Trey Gunn, and the California Guitar Trio. It has all been optimized for Netscape 2.0 browsers, by the way; and now on-line at: http://www.visi.com/~timsks/fripp/crimhome.html Also, I'd like to add a word of thanks to Dan for the recent E-T web pages revision. It's a much improved site. I finally had some time to sit and really pour through it a few weeks ago, and was struck by the level of organization and detail. This must have been a huge project... at least this reader is impressed! If you haven't spent time there recently, it's well worth another look. That's all for now. Thanks. -Tim Siefkes timsks at visi dot com http://www.visi.com/`timsks ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #272 ********************************