Errors-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #270 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 270 Wednesday, 10 April 1996 Today's Topics: Updated ET Web pages ET Update Attn: Elephant Talk -- Thanks! KC fans in Germany:yes! Fripp is having a laugh? Some good news for Central Europe ET'ers... Re: ET 269, mostly response to Stuart Wugalter KC pre-concert music KC and TH Re: A few things I picked up today HORDE Re: Damage KC bootlegs -- Advice? Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #269 kc tickets in madrid Guitar as Orchestra etc. Expensive stereos and Tennessee Elephant Talk - Worst of the Web RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #269 RE: Fripp ripp Sylvian/Fripp promo Voice in KC FW: HORDE '96 Summer Tour Dates and Artists Re: Stuart Wugalter's rambling message. Jay Kirby Guitar as Orchestra Review DAMAGE is wild origin of VROOM Fripp plays Hound Dog. A bit off the subject... KC and RF are "cult rockers" Indonesia's crimheads(for ET Newsletter) Frippaholicism Micahel Brook A Funny Story For You Administrivia: POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: The DIY List Machine is back! At www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ Visit the *new* ET on the web at www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ** If you want to opt for new 'ET BULLETIN' service, where instead of the whole digest you receive a short email announcing the latest edition is out, and where to read it on the web, email me, toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk, saying: "ET BULLETIN -- YES". ** The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: E#KIRKD at ccmail dot ceco dot com Date: Fri, 05 Apr 96 09:16:42 CST Subject: Updated ET Web pages If you haven't yet done so, check out the new ET web pages! A partial mirror site can also be used at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/ We've got a lot of new things, much of which has been pouring in from ET readers (thanks!) and newly announced King Crimson tour dates. Keep stopping by, these pages are being updated weekly. Dan (your ET web slave) DanKirkd at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 03:49:57 -0400 From: PossProd at aol dot com Subject: ET Update Dear ET'ers, Our new catalog is almost ready but in the meantime we have some of the King Crimson tour items. Most of these are in limited quantities and will not be offered in our new catalog that will be sent Mid April. All of these items have been discounted and will most likeley be discontinued. #0134T 'THRAK' Logo Tour Shirt $14.00 L XL (White shirt, 6 color pictures on front, Thrak logo on back) #0136D 'THRaK' Tour Sticker $ 3.00 #0131P 'THRaK' Metal Tour Pin $ 5.50 #0132PR 'THRaK' Tour Program $ 8.00 #0137TB 'THRaK' Metal Tour Box $34.99 Metal box #0133H 'VROOOM' Tour Hat $17.00 #0135B 'VROOOM' Button $ 3.00 We have 5 XXL & 7 XL Tshirts of the Los Gauchos Alemanes - "Hot Fat Fish" . Also, we have a new CD that joins together Los Gauchos Alemanes "Hot Fat Fish" and Santos Luminosos "Leuchtende Heilige" as one release. The new Santos part of this CD is great! For those of you who have already purchased "Hot Fat Fish" as a Signature Series we are offering this new Gaucho/Santos CD at a special price of $8.00. If you didn't purchase it the new Cd is $13.99. For you collectors, there are 2 copies of Hot Fat Fish left in Signature Series CDs and then "they be gone". #1101TXL & #1101TXXL - $12.00 #1108 Gaucho/Santos CD - $13.99 or $8.00 if you have purchased "Hot Fat Fish" We will ship orders 1 week before the Ten Seconds release and 2 weeks before the Robert Fripp & Peter Hammill releases. If it's possible we will ship the League of Gents and THRak aTTak 1 week before the League of Gents CD. 1996 RELEASE DATES: Ten Seconds 'Ten Seconds' April 30th Robert Fripp 'Radiophonics' May 28th Peter Hammill ' X My Heart' May 28th The League of Gentlemen live - 'Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx' June 11th KingCrimson 'THRaK aTTaK' June 25th Trey Gunn 'The Third Star'. (date NA) #0134T 'THRAK' Logo Tour Shirt $14.00 L XL (White shirt, 6 color pictures on front, Thrak logo on back) #0136D 'THRaK' Tour Sticker $ 3.00 #0131P 'THRaK' Metal Tour Pin $ 5.50 #0132PR 'THRaK' Tour Program $ 8.00 #0137TB 'THRaK' Metal Tour Box $34.99 Metal embossed THRAK box, program, THRAK sticker, VROOOM button. #0133H 'VROOOM' Tour Hat $17.00 #0135B 'VROOOM' Button $ 3.00 #1101T "Hot Fat Fish" Tshirt $12.00 XL XXL #1108 Gaucho/Santos CD $13.99 $8.00 if you own the "Hot Fat Fish" CD $_________Merchandise Subtotal $_________Postage/Handling (15% of Subtotal, $2.50 Minimum) $_________CA residents, add 8.25% State Sales Tax $_________Canada and Mexico, add $1.50 $_________Others Outside US, add $7.00 $_________US Postal Insurance, add $2.00 (optional) $_________Return Registered Mail, add $4.85 ( All orders OUTSIDE the US MUST use registered mail or WAIVE Possible Productions responsibility for delivery. I waive Possible Productions responsibility for delivery _______________________________________ $_________TOTAL ------------------------------ Date: 01 Apr 1996 23:53:23 GMT From: Dirk_Rosler at cosmos-uk dot org (Dirk Rosler) Organization: Cosmos BBS London UK Subject: Attn: Elephant Talk -- Thanks! Having read a number of remarks by Robert Fripp recently I found the content of these very appealing to me, disregarding his work and status as a musician. I would be interested if there are any resources or relations to other views in respect to this, hopefully not only his, view of the world (as you can see I am trying to avoid the word philosophy, but you know what I mean...). I'd be grateful for any hints on this. (Could you please cc: me via direct email as I often don't have time to go all through ET. Cheers!) Regards Dirk Dirk_Rosler at cosmos-uk dot org ------------------------------ Date: 02 Apr 96 04:47:05 EST From: Michael Peters <100041 dot 247 at compuserve dot com> Subject: KC fans in Germany:yes! > From: a1819801 at athena dot rrz dot uni-koeln dot de (Sal Pichireddu) > Hey, am I the only KC/ RF Fan in Germany. Well, it wouldn't surprise me. What?? Of course not!! I'm also in Cologne, by the way, and I know many more KC fans. We're all tremendously looking forward to the 9th of June, with KC playing open air in Cologne! Imagine listening to Vrooom live while lying on the grass and watching the Rhine flow by! -M ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 17:53:18 +0200 From: Ron Chrisley Organization: Guest researcher, University of Skvvde Subject: Fripp is having a laugh? I sometimes think that Fripp carries his irony to pleasant extremes. For instance, he hates live releases, so the ones he does release have extra bits added on, silences, multiple versions of pieces, cut out in the middle, etc. as if he is laughing at the people who want such things. This is starting to be the case with his "guest" apperances, which now, I gather, typically involve him sending some soundscapes to someone who mixes them in with a pre-existing track and -- voila! -- instant liner note credibility for the artist using Fripp's name, without having to go through all the bother of actually *collaborating* with the man. Thus, I announce that Fripp has another mention on another album, this time by the Swedish artist Nicolai Dunger. On his album "Songs Wearing Clothes" (just released in Sweden last Friday), I am told that Fripp makes contributions (apparently to the two tracks whose notes thank "Mr. Fripp": Nature Child and We Left Us). How many does that make this week, Robert? -- Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/index.html "ron at ida dot his dot se" will not be valid after April 22; use "ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 19:14:36 CET From: Marcin Gokieli 'Frankie' Subject: Some good news for Central Europe ET'ers... Hello evryone, In a city called Opole, in Poland, there will be a kind of drum worshop called Opolskie Dni Perkusyjne. What's interesting is the list of guests: a guy called Carl Palmer , who is , as i heard , a well-known player ;), and another famous guy... Oh , forgot his name Bill Brightford? Broofored?;) Opole is in the south-west part of Poland, near the Thcec and German bordrers. I don't know much more about , i'll mail more details as soon as i know. Marcin Gokieli Marfrank at plearn dot edu dot pl Ps. it takes place from 15 to 20 april!!! I nearly forgot to mention... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 20:50:19 -0500 From: Mark Subject: Re: ET 269, mostly response to Stuart Wugalter Toby and ETer's, Thought I'd put my 2 cents/2 pfennigs/2 lira in on ET 269. Quite an interesting assortment of input and information and I'm only half-way through it. However I feel I should comment on items written by Stuart Wugalter on Mar 29, 1996 ((those who grow queasy in the face of quantum weirdness are asked to close their eyes while scrolling down to the next letter)) wherein he is mentioning . . . the place where sound and light were one . . . Well, I don't know the source of any quotes (electric ladyland - one of the beat poets? early sci-fi? H.P. Lovecraft? Bradbury perhaps?). The theme/concept goes back at least as far as the Upanishads, resurfaces in the Greeks, and is one of the all-consuming artistic motivations/passions of late 19th Century Paris. I could be way off base, I ain't no acadeemic, but something here seems a bit . . . familiar. I sincerly hope (then again ...) that before submission Mssrs. Wugalter and Bohart researched their Baudelaire (what the f_? can't I even spell his name?!) and the artists he influenced; I see they did manage to find their way to Gurdjieff (not that there's any _connection_ between those two that I know of). Yeah, my art theory professor would be proud I'm recalling the import of this stuff ten years after the fact. And now on to more responses to Stuart: Ah, KC vocalists? Yes, I agree that Jeanette Napolitano would fit in nicely. How about Bjork? Or Laurie Anderson? (though not necessarily as accomplished as vocalists, they certainly have compatible mindscapes for KC) What about . . . Natalie Merchant!!?? (sinister, truly sinister ;-) But why stop with one?! Why not have two - you know, the double quartet version of KC? Heck, maybe it's already time for KC to jump into the triple quartet - get the Roches as vocalists. Add David Torn and Bill Laswell to the line-up, scrape up a drummer somewhere. And the quintuple dozen could be next: King Crimson could out-pace the internet growth curve. Perhaps someday there will be more members of King Crimson than non-members. We could all get rich living on the royalties of the albums we make and sell . . . to ourselves. The "killer video" of which Stuart speaks sounds like an excerpt from Laurie Anderson's Home of the Brave movie. (What is it you people in L.A. *actually do* other than warp the english languge?! - wheygh kewl ynddede) Great movie, highly recommended, and I need to see it again as I've seen it only once and within 30 minutes was cognitively overloaded. Enjoyed Pete Sinfield's little KC fable (thanks, Neil!). And in response to Gordon Emory Anderson, your comments caused me to jump (nay! leap!) and grab Damage and throw (nay! hurl orbitally!) said disc into the player which I am now thoroughly enjoying - drumming the desk and pounding my feet enough the CD skips. Thanks, Gordon. I repeat myself: so far as I know, this is no longer available in the U.S. Does anyone know or have other information on when that may or may not change? Ack!, enough already! I remain, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 07:22:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Charles E. Hoskins - Propst" Subject: KC pre-concert music Can some kind soul out there help me identify one of the pre-concert pieces played on the Fall, 1995 tour? It sounded to my ears like a classical string quartet, definitely 20th century harmonically, and rather frippish in a LTIA sort of way. I saw KC in Ft. Lauderdale, but I assume they may have played some of the same pre-concert music at other venues. I was quite taken by this piece and would very much like to locate a recording of it. Thanks in advance, Eric charlesh at cps dot acast dot nova dot edu ------------------------------ From: David Oskardmay - Imonics Corporation Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:20:29 -0500 Subject: KC and TH Dave Read wrote: >I am actually surprised that I have not read any TH / KC comparisons on ET. >Does anyone else see the TH influence on "Discipline"? I will gladly >accept private email on this subject. The obvious parallel for me is "Thela Hun Ginjeet" and "I Zimbra". THG and IZ both have tone-poem style lyrics, and come to think of it, IZ also seems to be a musical cousin of "Frame by Frame". david "You're welcome to dance if it's allowed." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 10:33:24 -0500 From: dalane at oxygen dot bbn dot com (Dave Lane) Subject: Re: A few things I picked up today Organization: BBN Domain Corporation bart6443 at oak dot ait dot fredonia dot edu (Robert A. Bartz) wrote: Subject: A few things I picked up today > I also got Greg Lake's first solo LP on half-speed master($4 at that!), not > just for Greg but also for Gary Moore. Any other fans of him out there? I > only knew him as a blues man until I picked up Colosseum II's "Strange New > Flesh" with Don Airey (later with Rainbow and guesting on Sabbath's "Never > Say Die") If you like that stuff, Moore & Airey (along with Jon Hiseman and John Mole of Collosseum II, and also Rod Argent, Barbara Thompson and Phil Collins) are the band on Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Variations" album from 1978 on MCA. A great album in my opinion, and a far cry from Webber's usual nauseating (MMMPH MMMPH BLAH!) show tunes. > and Neil Murray (Whitesnake, Sabbath). More notably a member of National Health, for which a certain drummer of note also played for a brief time. --Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 09:32:30 -0600 (CST) From: Bradley Earl Shelbourn <00111549 at bigred dot unl dot edu> Subject: HORDE i've recently heard talk on alt.progressive of Crimson being part of this summer's HORDE tour...can anyone here confirm this? anybody know the tour dates? (living in Nebraska, i'd like to know about Chicago, Kansas City &/or Denver)...i may FINALLY get my chance to experience the music first hand...post the info if you think others would be interested or e mail me directly...thanks Brad Shelbourn 00111549 at bigred dot unl dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 10:47:34 -0500 From: dalane at oxygen dot bbn dot com (Dave Lane) Subject: Re: Damage Organization: BBN Domain Corporation "Gordon Emory Anderson" wrote: /This last weekend I took the time to listen through all of Damage. Now /perhaps I've been using the scroll bar too much, but I don't remember /reading anyone mentioning that this record has some of Fripp's best work of /his entire career. Although Sylvian's voice gets a little monotonous, /Fripp is totally wailing. If one had to buy a single record to find out /what Fripp is capable of, this would be it. It's exactly this kind of /playing that I have missed in the last tour of KC. The whole record has /brilliant lines and solos. Careful. You may be attributing to Fripp some of the fretwork of Messrs. Brook, Gunn & Sylvian. Some of the sounds that I assumed were all being played by Fripp were actually those of the other three, which I discovered when I had the chance to see the video footage. / And although I'll probably be criticized for it (for reasons I / still don't understand), I will state that the sound quality of this live / recording is quite good--much better than B'Boom. / The high-reflectivity of the gold CD also really makes the sound / more tangible and realistic. I wouldn't argue with you about the sound quality, but I really doubt that gold-colored CDs offer anything over the usual silver-colored ones other than the gimmick aspect, but it is a great recording. The problem is, it's no longer in print, according to several sources I contacted late last year. --Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:30:16 -0500 From: Taylor Sherman Subject: KC bootlegs -- Advice? Hello, I do belive this is my first post to ET, I've been lurking for the past 3 months or so. For the most part I think it's great. Anyways, a local cd shop has *loads* of KC live albums, and in lieu of listening to them all in store, I was wondering if anyone out there had recomendations as to which sound good, sound horrible, and are great performances or only good performances (assuming KC doesn't have bad performances). Feel free to just throw some titles my way (MY way, not to the list please), they've got a lot so there's a good chance I'll find something. Thanx Taylor Sherman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:10:27 -0600 (CST) From: Andrew Suber Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #269 Hello all Crimheads, I have two simple postings: Is it just me or is the song "Happy Family" on "Lizard" about the Beatles? There are four family members, one (probably John) "grew a wife". Another (I think George) "grew a beard, drew another cup of wierd". I think Paul "drew a pruning knife", while Ringo "threw away his circus clothes". It seems to follow all of the scandals of Beatle history. Is the Ian McDonald on the Fairport Convention's self titled album the original clarinetist/saxophonist/etc. in KC? In the Fairport Convention all that Ian did was sing and play Jew's Harp; did he become an amazing musician in 1 year's time? Is "Ian McDonald" the name of 1 out of every 5 Scots? Can any one help me with my ignorance? Andrew ------------------------------ From: Steve Yockey Subject: kc tickets in madrid Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:15:47 -0800 Fortune smiles upon me, for I will be in Spain in May, and I have decided to be in Madrid may 30-31 thanks to the tour date listing. If someone out there would be so kind as to send me information as to how to get tickets to these shows (I live in california) I will be forever indebted to you. Actually the Cartagena show is a possiblity too. Thu 30-May MADRID Palacio Congresos Fri 31-May MADRID Palacio Congresos Sat 01-Jun Cartagena Auditorium de Murica Gracias! -steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:17:03 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Guitar as Orchestra etc. About the recent Belew album "Guitar as Orchestra": It departs a great deal from his other solo work (at least the albums that I've heard): it contains no elements of pop, world music, or Crimson covers. In short, it's not as annoying. Belew simply takes his guitar and sets it through an insane number of effects to get a wide range of different sounds (many of them approaching orchestral texture: you can at times hear winds, strings, etc.) and then overdubs them to get a multi-layered sound. It is highly atonal and arhythmic, and in general very choatic and non-repetitive. Belew says in the liner notes that he intends it to be playing in the background, but it is really music that does not allow a great deal of comfort. It's a difficult album, and requires a lot of listening. If you're expecting Crimson-like material, or normal Belew, you'll be awfully surprised. If you like listening to early 20th-century classical (Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Webern, etc.) you'll really dig it. Oh, and the last track is a Soundscapes-like piece, which does not approach Fripp's work but is still interesting. Basically if you're a Crimson fanatic like me, you'll want it. Otherwise, it may not be worth it. Giles, Giles, and Fripp: anyone else noticed the extensive re-marketing that this album is getting? About the Damage gold CD: do gold CDs really give better sound quality? I just thought they were supposed to look pretty. Cheap CDs are available at telnet cdconnection.com. A wide range of stuff (including some hard-to-find albums) for about two or three dollars less than you'll find it in stores, and very low S&H. (I think they'll have a web site sometime this month. I really think it would be like way cool if Fripp would join up with Optimus (you know, the leader of the Opticons in _Transformers: The Movie_). Gideon Banner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 14:33:26 CST From: cappsas at WKUVX1 dot WKU dot EDU Subject: Expensive stereos and Tennessee To ETers with expensive stereos. I have a pair of 15+ year old Cerwin Vega 12" 3-way speakers that sound really bad with really good digital or analog recordings, except the amount of bass. However, recordings like USA, B'Boom, Lark Tongues, Marillion's La Gazza (live w/Fish), Alice in Chains, etc... sound awesome when cranked up. They are probably as close as you can get to the type of speakers used for PA's at concerts or the ones in guitar amps. They are bass heavy, lack mid-range, and have flat highs. On the other hand, my Advents sound great with stuff that is clean and tight like Jean Luc Ponty and Steely Dan. My suggestion, get some PA/Disco style speakers (massive magnets, heavy aluminum casting frames, thick paper cones, particle board vented boxes) and crank it to the level that is just barely below the level when the circuit breakers kick in, and you will suddenly be transformed to the realm of a typical live sound. One last note on expensive stereo gear. One time in Nashville's Nichlesons Stereo, the expensive stereo store, I had a demo of a $ 20,000 stereo (forgot the brand but I think it was MacIntosh) and played In the Wake of Posedieon. You should have seen the look of the salesman's face when Pictures of a City kicked in after Peace... A Beginning. It was worth a million bucks!!!! To the TENNESSEE Crimson fan. You are not alone. We are currently living in Bowling Green, KY and are from Nashville. I have many friends that are also KC fans and have seen Adrian at least 4 times in Nashville. We had to go to Cincinnati, OH and Orlando, FL to see KC in 95 though. Hopefully KC will come to Nash soon ???!!! if they tour the USA again. I think they should, since Adrian lives/resides in the suburbs of THE Music City. Maybe Chet or Jr. Brown could warm-up for the CGTrio. I think that would be pretty cool : ) Talk, Talk...It's only Talk.... Steve and Donna Capps cappsas at wkuvx1 dot wku dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:47:54 -0600 From: bkm at HiWAAY dot net (B.K. Momchilov) Subject: Elephant Talk - Worst of the Web Regarding the "new and improved" Elephant Talk Web site: On March 21, 1996 the ET Home Page was awarded the distinction of being "Mirsky's Worst of the Web." His comments are as follows: >This page was put up by fans of the musician Robert Fripp. >You'd think they'd be sensitive to Mr. Fripp's beliefs. >However, read the article. Then check out the very last >line on the page. The page Mirsky refers to is titled: >"Bootlegging, Royalties and the Moment" by Robert Fripp Which ends with the following line: >Originally appeared in _Musician_ magazine, circa 1979. >Reprinted without permission. So when's Toby going to have the "Mirsky's Worst of the Web" badge proudly displayed on the page?? Seems appropriate... Mirsky's Worst of the Web for March 26th can be located at URL: http://mirsky.com/wow/1996/Mar/Mar2196.html Brian -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 21:26:24 -0500 From: dumela at mailhost dot mai dot net (tj) Subject: RE: Fripp ripp >From: ncorkind at ozemail dot com dot au (Neil corkindale) >I'd also agree with the email about Fripp not having played a solo since >about the time of "Exposure". It seems a shame that one of England's finest >guitarists is effectively playing rhythm guitar! I'd love to hear Belew >playing a more support role, with Fripp lashing out once or twice! At the Robert Fripp String Quintet show in Washington DC (two years ago??) Fripp played a few ripping solos. One sent me into near levitation. I will never forget that night. He can still burn metal but perhaps he now prefers to use such a powerful thing sparingly. To me his music is a package deal (a crude description) of which I've yet to be let down. Maybe ThRakKaTTacK will foot the bill or five years from now he'll put out an album with Frissel, Tibbets and Torn and set the planet on fire! I breath hot hope and suck on burning embers of sound. ouch, tj buy art not cocaine tj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 21:05:43 -0600 (CST) From: kempd18 at VAXA dot CIS dot UWOSH dot EDU Subject: Sylvian/Fripp promo I recently was able to borrow the Sylvian/Fripp promotional CD from the local campus radiostation. Though it only has 3 songs of of the first Day; it has 2 songs from a group in which DS obviously sang in. The group is called Rain Tree Crow (i believe). I have never seen that album at any store, catologe or on one of those computer lists that they have at some music stores. Does anyone have any info on this album. and is it still in print. Mr. Fripp is the hound dogg on Walter steddings 1980 release of gobblde-gook, really it is self entitled but fripp is thwe only thing on there that would sound even close to professional---DO NOT BUY, IT IS CHIT--- Argument of stale sound that is present on some of newer KC recordings is probably because they were recorded on ADAT and not on a anologue machine as your ears are accustome to. My personal opinion on the meaning of the THRAK symbol is that it is representitive of the Double-trio My signature Bitnet - kempd18@oshkoshw Internet - kempd18 at vaxa dot cis dot uwosh dot edu ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 1996 17:14:54 +0000 From: "Poisson, Thomas" Subject: Voice in KC Stuart Wugalter in ET 269 raised the interesting issue of KC vocalists. I don 't want to re-kindle the debate on the best KC vocalist, but I think there is something missing (or something too much) in the way Belew sings on Thrak. On Discipline, his voice was like that of a madman (Elephant Talk, Indiscipline, Thela Hun Ginjeet), much due to spoken vocals, as well as a-rythmical and a-tone singing. This fitted the music very well, added to the strange and the unknown side that always existed with KC. I don't feel that as much on Thrak, where vocals are too much in phase with the music (rarely out of rythm or tune) IMO. My personal viewpoint is that the nice side of Belew's voice should not overshadow the inherent darkness of Crimson music. Having said that, I reckon he has a very beautiful voice and vocal range. Something else: am I the only one on ET who thinks there are big similarities between Rage Against the Machine an KC '73-'74 (not the vocals, of course) ? yes, oh well... ------------------------------ From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: FW: HORDE '96 Summer Tour Dates and Artists Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 14:18:00 EST VrOOmAttaCk! King Crimson does H.O.R.D.E. !! ---------- 1996 H.O.R.D.E. Schedule as of 3/15/96 -- from John Popper via ABC News -- ============================================== DATE DAY CITY STATE ============================================== 7/06 SAT Minneapolis, MN* 7/07 SUN Milwaukee, WI* 7/09 TUE Cleveland, OH* 7/10 WED Columbus, OH* 7/12 FRI Indianapolis, IN* 7/13 SAT Chicago, IL* 7/14 SUN Detroit, MI* 7/15 MON TBA 7/17 WED Birmingham, AL 7/18 THU Memphis, TN^ 7/19 FRI Dallas, TX^ 7/20 SAT Austin,TX^ 7/21 SUN Houston, TX^ 7/23 TUE TBA 7/24 WED Phoenix, AZ^ 7/26 FRI Los Angeles, CA^ 7/27 SAT TBA 7/28 SUN San Francisco, CA^ 7/29 MON Concord, CA^ 7/30 TUE Sacramento, CA^ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 8/01 THU Salt Lake City, UT^ 8/03 SAT Portland, OR^ 8/04 SUN Seattle, WA^ 8/08 THU Kansas City, KS 8/09 FRI St. Louis, MO 8/10 SAT Nashville, TN 8/11 SUN Cincinatti, OH 8/13 TUE Philadelphia, PA 8/15 THU Boston, MA 8/16 FRI New York, NY 8/17 SAT TBA 8/18 SUN Saratoga Spgs, NY 8/20 TUE TBA 8/21 WED Pittsburgh, PA 8/23 FRI Burlington, VT 8/24 SAT Hartford, CT 8/25 SUN Washington, DC 8/26 MON Virginia Beach, VA 8/28 WED Raleigh, NC 8/29 THU Charlotte, NC 8/30 FRI Atlanta, GA 8/31 SAT Orlando, FL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 9/01 SUN West Palm Beach, FL * w/ Natalie Merchant ^ w/ Dave Matthews Band Also playing the HORDE Tour this year: King Crimson Jorma Kaukonene Lenny Kravitz Rusted Root Taj Mahal Morphine Sun Volt Nil Lara Cyco Moto Goat Gnu fuzz YoTo Yindi Jeff Healy Band Joan Osborne Possibly to appear: ----------------- Fiji Mariners Bootie Quake The Foo Tragically Hip Sheryl Crow Emmy Lou Harris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:00:57 -0800 (PST) From: "David G. Dixon" Subject: Re: Stuart Wugalter's rambling message. Fellow Crimheads: It was enlightening to see that there are other Olivier Messiaen fans among you. If you want a mind-blowing musical experience, check out "La Transfiguration de Notre Seigneur Jesus-Christ". The 2-CD set is on the Decca label, and is a bargain buy. It is accompanied by the organ piece, "La Nativite du Seigneur", and can be had for about $21.00 US. I often wonder if R. Fripp has heard any of this music. Maybe I'll send him a tape for his 50th birthday. Cheers ****************************************************************************** David G. Dixon ______________ Assistant Professor (Hydrometallurgy) \/\ | Department of Metals and Materials Engineering ~ ~ | | University of British Columbia ~ ~ | B C | 309-6350 Stores Road ~ ~ | | Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 Canada ~ ~ ~ \ \ ~ ~ _ | \ Phone: (604) 822-3679 ~ ~ \ \\*_______| FAX: (604) 822-3619 ~ ~ \_\ Email: dixon at unixg dot ubc dot ca ~ ~ ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:18:18 -0500 From: Us Subject: Jay Kirby In response to Mr. Kirby's question of what else sounded good circa 1975, one should sample 'Made in Japan' by Deep Purple, 'Welcome back my friends th the show that never ends' ELP, and 'Seconds Out' by Genesis. Clearly better sounding albums than USA. I have asked my friend, DSP, about his opinion of the sound quality of USA and he felt that it was RF intention to have that sound quality. I found it strange because the sound quality of the album steals some of the intensity of arguably the best performed KC of any incarnation. It is as if RF wants the intention of the music to be heard but not the clarity. Any response from the Et faithful? ...I cannot still the hideous beating of his heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Dave Wojtowicz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 22:22:26 EST From: bart6443 at oak dot ait dot fredonia dot edu (Robert A. Bartz) Subject: Guitar as Orchestra Review I just got the April 1996 issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician (if you don't, are you really one in the first place?), and they had a review of Belew's latest solo album. Pretty fair review in my opinion. >From the "Tracks" Column of Guitar for the Practicing Musician Magazine, April 1996. Written by Buzz Morison. Reprinted without permission. Adrian Belew - "The Experimental Guitar Series Volume I: The Guitar as Orchestra" (Adrian Belew Presents) Performance: Modernist, pianistic, orchestral, and definitely not pop. Hot Spots: "Portrait of the Guitarist as a Young Drum", "Laurence Harvey's Despair", "If Only..." Bottom Line: Challenging neo-classical pieces that sound like everything but guitar, as produced by a tonal magician. Adrian Belew Presents is a label developed by the guitarist to present "more modern, serious, contemporary" music (his pop-oriented solo albums will continue to be released on Caroline Records). Quite naturally, the label's debut recording is by Belew and features 10 challenging, largely improvised, original "classical" pieces performed entirely on the guitar. But you won't here any sounds even remotely resembling those of said guitar, aside from Belew's album-opening joke tune-up. The first track has an experimental, atonal orchestral feel, sketching out its title, "Score with No Film", in broad contrasting strokes. "Portrait of a Guitarist as a Young Drum" seems to involve piano, percussion and clarinet in an echoing, spatial exercise that lurches from swaggering bearishness to petite balletic turns. Other tracks feature echoing piano-like sounds in fragmented, overlapping layers, while on "Rings Around the Moon" Belew draws bell and harp sounds from his complex setup of Fender Stratocaster, three Roland guitar synths, twin Korg processors and a Roland delay unit. Several of the album's more compelling pieces could function as scores for episode of "The X Files". (An American TV series - BB) "If Only..." uses sighs and moans to create an air of mystery and sadness, while "Finale" features eerie string-like sections with muffled-thunder percussive underpinnings that lead to a ghostly precipice. Belew's trademark humor is reflected in both the title of "Seven E Flat Elephants Eating the Acacia of a C# Minor Forest" and its skulking dance of bleating grunts and groans. All in all, "The Guitar as Orchestra" is an impressive recording and exhibition of modernist guitar technology and compositional quirkiness - just don't expect to hum any tunes. Also in this month's issue is an article called "The Best Guitarists You've Never Heard Of". Most notably, they mention Michael Lee Firkins, John Goodsall (who will ALWAYS be one of my favorites), Shawn Lane, David Torn, Bill Steer (formerly of Carcass, but before you think anything, this guy has some SERIOUS chops), and Drew Zingg (guitarist on the '93 Steely Dan tour). Hmm, a few months ago they transcribe "Three of a Perfect Pair" and "In the Dead of Night", they featured Fripp and the CGT in an Outsiders feature, and now this month's features. Looks like I might keep my subscription after all! Bob -- Bob Bartz - bart6443 at oak dot ait dot fredonia dot edu Home page: http://www.lm.com/~rbartz Go Pens! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Apr 96 00:23:23 EST From: Peter Subject: DAMAGE is wild I found a copy of "Damage" in, of all places, Lechmere's CD section! Wow! It absolutely floored me- in terms of intensity and the sound of four musicians REALLY playing together ("Brightness Falls" sounds like one guy playing and signing everything) it blows away what the new Crimson has done so far. Find this CD!!!!! Does anyone know anything about Michael Brook's Infinite Guitar? I know he invented it and that the Edge likes it, but what is it? All the Sylvian/Fripp machine seemed to lack was a human personality- the lyrics are so Zenned-out as to be totally devoid of emotion, which isn't a slight- it works for most of the songs, but the down-to-earth humor in Adrian Belew's words and voice are one of my favorite aspects of the current Crimson. Peter ------------------------------ From: Jon Morris Subject: origin of VROOM Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:00:49 -0500 (CDT) ETers, I came across this the other day and thought I'd share it with the list. I'm reading a book called "Forces in Motion: Anthony Braxton and the meta-reality of creative music: Interviews and tour notes, England 1985" by Graham Lock. On page 77, Mr. Lock is describing a concert and writes: "...The alto whispers a change and the group realign, via a lovely ensemble improvisation, into the faster, boppish lines of 69G, with more fierce solos from Braxton and Marilyn before the group slot back into the theme, rush it helter-skelter around the block and -- VROOOM! -- halt on a T." I guess trying to connect this to Fripp and Co. may seem like a bit of a stretch, but I could easily imagine that Mr. Fripp is aware of the work of Anthony Braxton. As a composer who is always breaking new ground, and as an improvisor who is quite demanding of his group, I think they have much in common (except that Fripp's recordings are much easier to find). Any thoughts about a possible Fripp/Braxton connection? -Jon jonmor at moontower dot com ------------------------------ Subject: Fripp plays Hound Dog. Date: Sun, 7 Apr 96 12:53:14 PDT From: Ed Korczynski REGARDING THIS QUESTION... >From: RyuichiSh at eworld dot com >Also, around the late 70's early 80's I came across an album which had a >sticker on the cover stating "Featuring Robert Fripp on The Track Hound >Dog". If my memory serves me correctly, the album cover had a proto-punk >rocker in a black motorcycle jacket in the center with a red background. I >did not buy it and have only seen it that one time, but I am curious if >anyone knows about this song or the artist who performed it as I have not >seen it in any discographies. If memory serves (and I may be wrong), the artist was Chris Spedding. He was an electric violinist in with the Blondie, TalkingHeads, Television late 70s New York new music crowd. Fripp guest-stars on his pseudo-punk cover of the Elvis song and no where else on the album. The song and the entire album were marginal; an admirable performance aesthetic that resulted in a weak final product. I owned the album for many years and finally sold it to a used record store, since I couldn't find the time to listen to it more than twice. I hope that I haven't offended anyone by this assessment. Considering the stories I've heard about Fripp consenting to provide one-take ripping solos for aquaintances records, I doubt that there was anything resembling a collaboration on Spedding's late 70s record. For obscurity and novelty value, I prefer Fripp's signature contribution to Blondie's cover of Heroes (Though I still prefer Bowie's German Lyric version). It is impossible to suffer without acheiving the aim, -edo -- ***************************************************************************** "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." "Fruit flies like a banana." -Noam Chomsky -Groucho Marx **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:59:50 -0800 From: dembones at mind dot net (Demian Norvell) Subject: A bit off the subject... Greetings fellow Crimson fans! After searching unsuccesfully for a source of intelligent, literate album reviews, commentaries, and/or just objective opinions, I am taking upon myself to provide such a source. My thoughts are to give a bi-weekly song by song review of a given album, chosen either by random selection or request. This would then be sent via e-mail to anyone interested in recieving it. This will not be limited to any specific genre or musical style, (although inevitably it will include King Crimson, one of my favorite groups!) It is my intention as a music lover to provide a little insight into artists/groups that folks have never heard of, or inspire someone to give a look to something they would never otherwise look at. Or maybe just give my two cents. If my experiment is succesful, I can forsee providing soundfiles or pictures to accompany my reviews. If you are interested in recieving such a publication, please e-mail me at... Dembones at mind dot net Demian Norvell Songwriter/Engineer/Producer Applegate Studios- Ruch, Or ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 14:53:24 +0000 From: juscilowicz at attmail dot com (Jerzy Uscilowicz) Subject: KC and RF are "cult rockers" In my local bookstore I found a new book in the music section. It was 'Cult Rockers' by Wayne Jancik and Tad Lathrop. It has more than 100 profiles of so called cult rockers. Among them, guess who, King Crimson and Robert Fripp! Of course , I bought the book (15% discount of cover price of $14 + NJ tax). For those who would like to add something new to their KC/RF collection: Title / Authors: Cult Rockers by Wayne Jancik and Tad Lathrop Publisher: A Fireside Book published by Simon & Schuster ISBN: 0-684-81112-X Price: U.S. $14 Jerzy Uscilowicz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 19:30:01 GMT From: yohipup at ibm dot net (Yoga Adhitrisna) Subject: Indonesia's crimheads(for ET Newsletter) King Crimson globalized...? Probably I'm one of very few Indonesian crimheads to correspond to ET. Did RF ever realize that there are at least 10 people in this country who give a great damn about the music of crimson? Although crimson CD's are relatively hard to find in this corner of the world (Indonesia), who would ever think that 'Larks' Tongues part 2' was ever covered by a local band ? Did Bill Bruford ever knew that there is a relatively loyal following of his drumming style ( having an import CD of Gradually Going Tornado is totally considered cool among us !) ? Did crimson fans know that the interlocking guitar parts on Discipline came very close to the similarities of Balinese (a small island in my country)gamelan textures ? We surely like to communicate on ET ! PS : I like to submit my review on Red (which in fact was released when I was just 3 years old !) By Dave Lumenta (yohipup at ibm dot net) : Starless is probably the best track to demonstrate Bruford's ability to use space and to build it up until it becomes the ultimate wallpaper shredder. This track to me really shows(probably) how far Jamie Muir loosened up Bruford's approach to drumming (just compare how traditional Bruford's approach drumming still was on Close To The Edge !). Providence showed where Crimson really became the masters at in a live situation, comparable to Mahavishnu Orchestra, to be great improvisers. Sadly, improvisations like this are nowadays labelled as 'indulgent'. MTV became the agent to demonstrate that quantity indicates 'quality' (what a great world ! The discourse of music is being 'culturally imperialised' , thanks to MTV). Finally, how about a picture of Jamie Muir's 'allsorts' set up ? ------------------------------ From: "Joel M. Depper" Subject: Frippaholicism Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:35:40 -0700 I, Dave Depper, am a Frippaholic. I have more KC and Fripp albums than = probably anyone in my small hometown of Bend, OR. Currently, I have the = "Happy family, one hand clap, four went by and none came back" refrain = stuck in my head as it has been for days. I am going crazy. Oh well, I = guess I'll clear my mind with Groon... I've never posted a letter to anything so please forgive my green = style. I'll improve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 20:07:54 -0400 From: ASFSeattle at aol dot com Subject: Micahel Brook Greetings ET'ers. I was hoping someone could could make a few comments and reccomendations for any of the solo work of Michael Brook. My only awareness of him is his work on the Fripp/Sylvian "First Day", "Damage" and other live material. Private replies. Thanks, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 01:02:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Myers Subject: A Funny Story For You Hello all, it has been a while since I last posted, so I figured I would make my presence known once again... I have a funny little story for you: A while back I was eating lunch with my family and some relatives, and my mother made mention to my uncle of my enormous CD collection and my fondness for King Crimson. This caught my uncle's attention, and he said, "King Crimson? You mean as in Robert Fripp??? Someone actually still listens to King Crimson???" So, on behalf of ET, I made sure that the answer was YES. Counting the days to August 13th (the date of the Philly KC show), Karl Myers mophead at udel dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 00:46:58 UT From: "Julius & Jennifer Saroka" Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #269 a number of musing... >Very few people know this, but in 1987, there was talk (and even a few >rehearsals) of a new version of Crimson which would have featured Bill >Janssen in the band. wow! are there any boots of THIS! >I just heard a new CD by guitarist Bill Forth and keysman Jeff Fayman. >Fripp plays throughout -- solos and soundscape. It's the freshest thing >I've heard in ages, now in heavy rotation in my office. >This is a killer CD! Check it out! could you possibly give at least a tiny bit more information about the album. >Does anyone else see the TH influence on "Discipline"? yep, too damn much IMHO! Who on ET has heard Adrian's new guitorchestra album (I forget the title)? if you like the orchestral Zappa albums, this is like a watered-down version thereof. >I fressde my mind, I let music in my soul.And that is why I love his music huh? >Brand X's Livestock was recorded in '76 and '77, and I think >it was an Incredible recording. Not to mention the phenominal >playing.... Gentle Giant "Playing the Fool - the Official Live" - recorded in 1976 Grobschnitt "Solar Music - Live" - recorded in 1978 both utterly FAN-fucking-TASTIC! >I recently saw the Live in Japan 1995 concert video, from a broadcast >on Japanese television. where's Possible Productions when we need them!?!?!? >I'm interested in the symbol that came with the thrank cd...The >THRANK cd however to me has the hint of returnig back to what made >them great anyway. is this another in the great un-released series of stuff, or only a typo? inquiring (and sarcastic) minds want to know. >So what do we have here? Fripp does a nine hour show where he is able >to do his nails. Eno does a show in Berlin where folks feel free to just get >up and leave (apparently it was very cold). Both do a little tweaking >letting devices of which they are masters provide all. I'm calling these >"Shows for the blind." Why look at all? I like it. what shows were these? more details please! >Maybe I can help you. Holger Czukay is ... >1988 he recorded "Plight and Premonition" with David Sylvian. also "Flux and Mutabilty", i don't know the year. his solo album "Movies", not only predates Byrne & Eno's "My Wife and a Bunch of Goats" but works the concept much more convincingly. >I would like to hear a vocalist who is at least as accomplished vocally as >the musicians in KC are with their instruments. i agree 100000000000000000%! >Don't get me wrong, I love AB's voice. in it's proper setting ( I _love_ 'the Lone Rhino' ) but to me KC is NOT the proper setting for his voice. all too often it just gets in the way. >While I would not qualify her as being an accomplished vocalist, I would >like to hear Jeanette Napolitano sing with KC. BLEAH!!! (and other puke related sounds) >...Laurie Anderson.. now that could be at least provocative! >I'd also agree with the email about Fripp not having played a solo since >about the time of "Exposure". you haven't heard "Damage" yet, have you? (Further comments pending...) >My wife complained which led us to a four hour row and then a >divorce! She didn't understand what it meant to me hearing that piece >properly! we really didn't need to know this, but since you brought it up... to quote Ross Perot.."That's just sad!" if this is a joke, it's in questionable taste; if it isn't a joke, i can only hope that it's a gross over-simplification of the facts; if it is an actual statement of the situation, you may want to consider counseling. >MACDONALD & GILES >"Birdman" a 20 minute `suite' CW with Ian for side two of ex-Crimsos joint >venture in 1970. Yes there is talk of the original band reforming if only to >fill in the gaps in the Castle Communication's documentary which is >currently in pre-preproduction. . .But Fripp has to tour and record with his >current rose by any other name through the end of T94 and then we'll see. does this refer to McD & G or to KC? Clarification , please! >***************************************************************************** ** >PPS. Are you a "closet frippoholic?" Sleepless? Breathless? Seeing red, >blurry three of a perfect pair vision? Heatbeat a little schitziod? Suffering >from over-exposure? Do you march for no reason? this is one of the most imaginative and genuinely witty things i have seen on the Net to date. >This last weekend I took the time to listen through all of Damage. Now >perhaps I've been using the scroll bar too much, but I don't remember >reading anyone mentioning that this record has some of Fripp's best work >of his entire career... It's exactly this kind of playing that I have missed in >the last tour of KC. And although I'll probably be criticized for it (for >reasons I still don't understand), I will state that the sound quality of this >live recording is quite good...this is the whole tamale and it really kicks >ass. -Emory. this is the posting that actually inspired me to write at all, you can dismiss all of the above as errant ramblings, but DON"T dismiss "Damage"!!! i loved the '70s version of KC (although i thought "...Poseidon" was a weak version of "ItCoCK" and didn't "get" "Lizard" until i finally heard it on CD, "Lark's Tongues", "Starless", and "Red" are among the absolutely NECESSARY recordings of all time). But i only liked parts of "Exposure", very little of Frippertronics or the Eno collaborations (i mean the two Fripp & Eno records, i'm not talking about Fripp's solos on Eno's albums), and _none_ of the League of Gentlemen. I didn't think that "Discipline" felt like a KC record and probably would not have had my expectations so rudely shatterred by the other '80s KC albums if they would NOT have taken the KC name.(and put those flames away, i am well aware that _my_ expectations are _my_ problem and that no artist _owes_ me anything. That doesn't change the fact that i don't think these are _good_ records, let alone good _KC_ records, which for better or worse i hold to a higher standard.). The Crafty Guitars didn't do much to re-attract my attention (on the other hand, subsequently the RFSQ _did_, and although i have only heard them live, so did the CGT). BUT i had been hearing rumors about a "new" KC featuring D. Sylvian for YEARS, i was very surprised when "the First Day" actually appeared (even though it was clearly _not_ KC, and by that time a whole 'nuther set of rumors were already circulating.) and i was even more surprised when i actually heard it....it was by no means a GREAT record, but Fripp was actually PLAYING the guitar as if it mattered!!!! This did little to prepare me for "Damage" though, this album is among the most completely realized works of art that i have ever had the pleasure of hearing! i don't know if the performances are _flawless_, but even if they are _technically_ flawed in some way, they are immaculate in spirit! the flow, the mood (and the _contrasting_ moods), the PLAYING, are all phenomenal! THIS is _everything_ that KC means to me! After hearing the Fripp/Sylvian albums, i was disappointed by what i heard from KC, both on CD and live. i know this may be blasphemy to some if not most of you, but the '90s KC has too much chaos without context for me. (this is a concept that i would be glad to pontificate upon further, but this is already unwelcomingly long.) that's not to say that they don't have their moments, but even those are surpassed, for me anyway, by the work on "Damage". I cannot recommend this CD strongly enough!!!! (and like emory, i am surprised that there hasn't been more traffic about it.) i profusely apologize for the length of this, but i am deeply impassioned over "damage" and i really think that it should be heard by everyone who is interested in good music. peace, love, and understanding (or not) julius ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #270 ********************************