Errors-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #269 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 269 Monday, 1 April 1996 Today's Topics: * European Tour dates for 1996 * CGT update - NST weekend Ten Seconds KC / Talking Heads / Eno - The Devil's Triangle? Sorta Survey Fripp is Moonlighting Re:Boring violins in media Personal Announcement from Michael Jeter exceptional sound quality on a live record Giles, Giles & Fripp rereleased... Re: Live in Japan 1995 trademark? Dave Wojtowicz Max Roach & improv Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #268 Fripp and Eno Re: Gideon B Banner and more DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU VALUE YOUR SANITY!!! Obscurities: Palmer-James & Fripp Thrak Sound & Sensitive Moments Pete Sinfield A few things I picked up today my moving KC experience what is -- is, criticisms & frippophilia & FRIPP-O-HOLIC Damage Administrivia: POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: The DIY List Machine is back! At www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ Visit the *new* ET on the web at www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ** If you want to opt for new 'ET BULLETIN' service, where instead of the whole digest you receive a short email announcing the latest edition is out, and where to read it on the web, email me, toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk, saying: "ET BULLETIN -- YES". ** The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Mar 96 12:59:40 EST From: Discipline Global Mobile Subject: * European Tour dates for 1996 * King Crimson - THRaKaTTaK TOUR - Europe 1996 Thu 30-May MADRID Palacio Congresos Fri 31-May MADRID Palacio Congresos Sat 01-Jun Cartagena Auditorium de Murica Mon 03-Jun LYON Auditorium Maurice Rowelle Tue 04-Jun MANNHEIM Rosengarten - Musansaal Wed 05-Jun BERLIN Tempodrom Fri 07-Jun WARSAW Congress Hall Sun 09-Jun COLOGNE Tanzbrunnen Mon 10-Jun FRANKFURT Alte Opera Tue 11-Jun NURNBERG Meistersingerhalle Thu 13-Jun DORTMUND Westfalen Park Fri 14-Jun HAMBURG Stadtpark Sat 15-Jun CHIMITZ Stadt Halle Mon 17-Jun PRAGUE Palace of Culture Tue 18-Jun PRESOV Amphitheatre Wed 19-Jun BUDAPEST Olympia Petofi Csarnocha Fri 21-Jun CODROIPO Villa Manin Sat 22-Jun FLORENCE Auditorium della Casine Mon 24-Jun NAPLES Teatro Tenda Tue 25-Jun ROME Eur Steps ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 16:21:29 -0500 From: PaulyRich at aol dot com Subject: CGT update - NST weekend Hello All, The California Guitar Trio has just returned from a fairly successful tour in Italy. We played eleven concerts beginning in Prato (near Florence) and ended in Rome at a great little music club "IL Locale". We drove ourselves around Italy in rented van and delt with each new adventure and mishap as they presented themselves. In Reggio Emilia, after the concert at 1:30am, the local promoter told us that he didn't have enough money to pay us, so we had to follow him (a very crazy driver) through the city to find an open automatic teller machine. After stopping at four closed ATMs, the pomoter said that we would have to go to the next city to find one that is open. Bert volunteered to go with him and sent the rest of us back to the hotel (we had about a six hour drive, plus a concert the next day) to get some sleep. Bert ended up spending the rest of the night with this guy in effort to get the money and finally got paid the next morning and turned up at the hotel just as we were getting ready to leave for Padova. Will the struggling musicians' dues ever be paid? Four of the concerts were really great, two were pathetically horrible and the rest were just about worth doing. My rating criteria is based on basically three things: 1- Quality of the CGT performance. 2- Quality of the audience. 3- Quality of the venue. Out of all the shows the CGT has done recently, one of the highlights was the second night (Sat. Feb. 24th) at the Guadalupe church in Santa Fe with guests Trey Gunn and Bill Janssen. This church is an exceptional place to perform and we had a full house of appreciative listeners. Trey Gunn and Bill Janssen played great. We hope to do more shows like this in the future, so more of you will have a chance to hear these guys in a situation where they really shine. Bill Janssen is a saxaphonist from Denver who we have been friends with for several years. He plays on Adrian Belews album "Twang Bar King". Very few people know this, but in 1987, there was talk (and even a few rehearsals) of a new version of Crimson which would have featured Bill Janssen in the band. The New Standard Tuning Course (led by the CGT and Tony Geballe) which is being held the weekend of April 19th near Los Angeles is looking good. The course is filling up, so if there is any one else interested in attending this one, please email Debra Kahan (102711 dot 716 at compuserve dot com) or call 916-944-0888 for more information. That's it for now, take care all, Paul Richards ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 12:48:20 -0800 From: toby Subject: Ten Seconds I just heard a new CD by guitarist Bill Forth and keysman Jeff Fayman. Fripp plays throughout -- solos and soundscape. It's the freshest thing I've heard in ages, now in heavy rotation in my office. This is a killer CD! Check it out! To order, contact (USA/rest of world) Possible Productions (PossProd at aol dot com) or (UK/Europe *only*) Discipline Records (73064 dot 1470 at CompuServe dot com) Toby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 18:21:38 -0500 From: ValDave at aol dot com Subject: KC / Talking Heads / Eno - The Devil's Triangle? Hey everyone, this is my first post to ET, tho I've been reading for 10-15 issues now. I just picked up Under Heavy Manners / God Save The Queen, and am I mistaken, or is that David Byrne singing on UHM as "Absalm el Habib"? It would make sense as the tracks were compiled in NY, and this is around the time of Talking Heads "Remain in Light" (including of course the lovely & talented Mr. Belew)/ Eno - Byrne "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts". Speaking of Eno, check out RF on "King's Lead Hat" (Talking Heads?) from "Before and After Science" - in my opinion one of his best solos. Anyone have any ideas on what effects RF is using on the track? I must have them! I am actually surprised that I have not read any TH / KC comparisons on ET. Does anyone else see the TH influence on "Discipline"? I will gladly accept private email on this subject. Who on ET has heard Adrian's new guitorchestra album (I forget the title)? Oh yes, and last but not least, what's going on with Thrak Attack? If it is indeed happening, I can't wait! But I mustn't get my hopes up in vain...I would be crushed. Later, Dave Read, NYC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 20:52:20 -0500 From: gabriel dot a dot radvansky dot 1 at nd dot edu (G.A. Radvansky) Subject: Sorta Survey This is a reminder to concerning the Sorta Survey. I'm looking for people suggestions of songs that COULD have been, or SHOULD have been KC tunes. The examples I gave before were Bruford's "Beelzebub" and Levin's "Lone Bear". Again, the only criteria is that the song have had major involvement by a current or former Crimson member and that it seems like a song that could fit in somewhere in KCs history. I haven't received anything involving KC members pre-SABB. So, send your opinions to me (NOT TOBY) and I'll post them to E.T. sometime in mid to late April. Also, if you agree with either of my two examples, don't forget to include them in your response to boost their count total. --G.A. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 21:09:23 -0500 From: gabriel dot a dot radvansky dot 1 at nd dot edu (G.A. Radvansky) Subject: Fripp is Moonlighting Based on my recent scientific research, I have come to the irrefutable conclusion that R. Fripp is moonlighting as Barney the Dinosaur. This is in keeping with his long-standing admiration of the Beatles, and Ringo Starr's hosting a children's show. Think about it: (a) Fripp and Barney are never seen together in public. (b) Fripp plays a song about being a dinosaur. Barney is a dinosaur. (c) Both Fripp and Barney have had recent legal problems with the music industry. (d) Both Fripp and Barney have close working associates who have the initials B.B. i. Note: Bill Bruford and Baby Bop are also never seen together in public. (e) Fripp teaches Guitar Craft. Barney teaches Arts and Crafts. (f) There are some people who can't stand Fripp. Same for the dinosaur. (g) Some people tape their shows(without permission) for later home use. (h) Both Fripp and Barney magically disappear after a performance. (i) Barney has a moral at the end of his show. Fripp preaches in his liner notes. (j) Barney is sponsored by Chuck E. Cheese. Fripp eats pizza. I think the evidence speaks for itself. ___________________________________ G. A. Radvansky Department of Psychology University of Notre Dame ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:20:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Jaroslaw Palka Subject: Re:Boring I read ET Digest 264 and I agree with Antoine Caron.You talk about equipment,new stuff,amp and guitars.I think we forgot about the most important thing in Crimson's music (not only).It's feelings.I know we are "21st Century Schizoid Men" and we have computers,lasers, and other digital shit.But we can't forget one thing, we're humans not animals.Feelings diffrent us. When I listen Fripp's guitar I don't thdink "Wow, how fast he plays on guitar,it's so difficult trick".I fressde my mind, I let music in my soul.And that is why I love his music ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Mar 1996 10:34:18 -0500 From: John Saylor Subject: violins in media Hi While andrew is most certainly entitled to his opinion, I am too. I offer a "counterpoint" [sorry] to his suggestions- no ill feeling intended. >Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 17:51:42 -0600 (CST) >From: Andrew Suber >Subject: What I see as the reason LTIA is suited for a symphony [x] > The two greatest things of importance in accepted art are theme and >form. These two qualities create a synthesis. A work of art without form >is nonexistant; a work of art without theme is inane and meaningless. Art [or art] is not made by cookbook. It is often analysed that way. A list of things that purport to be of the greatest importance for art is bound to be imperfect. Also, what is theme? What is form? [rhetorical questions, meant to show that these concepts are so generic as to be virtually meaningless: can no form be a form? is eposodic construction a valid form? does bald juxtaposition create a form?] >The essence of LTiA >does not change, even when transposed into musical notation, but a >certain form may be more fitting. Oh but it does! You're forgetting about the performers! I have seen the same score be exhaulting and dreadful based on the performers involved. And particularly with a work like LTiA [2], where the form is based on repetitions of the same material that are *performed* differently, as well as being overlaid with additional instrumentation and sound colors, a performer's resposibility for the final experience is tremendous. >I feel that >changing the form of LTiA into a symphony with all of the gilded >trappings of classical music could help me understand its theme a bit >better. Get out of the 18th century- man! And especially since you claim that theme and form are the most important things in art- why shold it matter if they're dressed up in 18th century clothes [symphony orchestra] or 20th century clothes [rock band]? >I am being very egotistical, I am simply >doing my best to understand the music I enjoy. Well, there's nothing wrong with that! Good luck! -- John Saylor MIT E40-335 617/253-0172 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 17:10:36 -0500 Subject: Personal Announcement from Michael Jeter From: lordabay at pipeline dot com (michaeldamianjeter) I wanted to share this with my KC family: I may not have the $ to attend a KC show this summer b/c... I have just ordered a purpleheart Grand Chapman Stick with Midi pickup from Stick Enterprises:-) Ya'll take care:-) -- michael damian jeter I don't believe in destiny, Or the guiding hand of fate. I don't believe in forever Or love as a mystical state. I don't believe in the stars or the planets Or angels watching from above. But I believe there's a ghost of a chance We can find someone to love -And make it last. -- Neil Peart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 20:09:12 -0500 From: MrBERWELL at aol dot com Subject: exceptional sound quality on a live record In a message dated 96-03-26 15:28:52 EST, you write: >During a Wed, 13 Mar 1996 05:26:35 post, wombat at aonline dot com > >> I have always found the sound quality on it exceptional for a live >> album. >> Lets not forget we are talking about 1975. What other live albums from >> that era >> would you say were recorded better? > >Released less than a year later an album called "801 Live" by Eno/Manzanera >and friends for one... > >.. Jay Kirby (jekirby at ingr dot com) Brand X's Livestock was recorded in '76 and '77, and I think it was an Incredible recording. Not to mention the phenominal playing.... MrBerwell at aol dot com ------------------------------ From: "bnt at ibm dot net" Subject: Giles, Giles & Fripp rereleased... Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 19:36:07 -0000 In the latest Polygram mid-price catalogue, they include "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp" which will be sold in their mid-price promotion on a A320-for-three basis. If they do it in the USA, that translates to about $9-$10 or so. They also printed a picture of the cover. I STILL don't believe it! Of interest to other music fans, the promotion also includes: The complete Rush catalogue up to "A Show Of Hands" (1988); most Emerson, Lake & Palmer; a ton of serious reggae & dub from Island records incl. Marley, LKJ, Cliff; and (via a quick scan) selected albums by Anthrax, Barclay James Harvest, Big Country (remasters), Camel, Clapton, Deep Purple, Faith No More, Fish, The Jam, Joe Jackson, Elton John (plenty), Jon & Vangelis, Level 42, Magnum, The Mission, Van Morrison (eh, Toby?), The Police, Soundgarden, Supertramp, Traffic, U2 (1st 3), Ultravox, Velvet Underground, and Yello! A chance to fill the gaps in my collection...! Cheers Brian Thomson bnt at ibm dot net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 23:27:44 -0500 (EST) From: Sean Malone Subject: Re: Live in Japan 1995 I recently saw the Live in Japan 1995 concert video, from a broadcast on Japanese television. The quality, as you could expect, is fantastic both in the performances as well as production. What I like best about it is that it is a very artistic documentation, rather than an over-produced "creation." It captures the honesty of the performances with a quality similar to that of the Sylvian/Fripp concert, in fact I think it may be from the same venue, Nakano Sun Plaza. I'm not sure if/how/when/where it will be released here, hopefully soon. There is a particularly inspired version of Thrak. sm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 02:43:55 -0500 From: Mike Parrott Subject: trademark? I'm interested in the symbol that came with the thrank cd.What is it and has anyone thought of making a auto window sticker out of it? I laminated mine and stuck it on the rear window as a sign to other crimheads.Being in the southern part of usa(tennessee) the crimheads are few and far between. I consider THE DEVILS TRIANGLE their greatest piece ever.The THRANK cd however to me has the hint of returnig back to what made them great anyway. later, Mike Parrott pollyp at crystalpt dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 09:27:01 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Dave Wojtowicz Dave Wojtowicz made a statement about a sort of nostalgic sound to Thrak, particularly vis-a-vis the mellotron. My own thought is that I think there are many musical references to earlier KC work buried in the music: Vroom itself has a very similar structure and feel like "Red". Perhaps our music theory experts can tell us if there is some sort of fugue-like relationship between the two main themes of these songs.There are also other references that seem to go by, so I almost think that this band is thought by someone (probably Fripp) to be a culmination of sorts, with new elements (or course), but incorporating some old ones. Perhaps this is also why there are recapitulations musically (Vroom Vroom, Coda, etc...). It would seem perfectly in character for Fripp to have been thinking about this band on a sort of meta-level, and to have guided its sound along such lines. -Emory PS: My wife and I will be traveling to Italy in late April, probably to Cuneo, Tuscany, Florence, Venice, and probably Milan. Any KC fans out there wanna hang? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 12:18:34 -0500 From: Khosatral at aol dot com Subject: Max Roach & improv Given Bruford's Max Roach affinity, thought I'd pass along info some great Roach work: Sonny Rollins' Saxophone Colossus. From 1956, Roach practically plays lead in spots, especially "Blue 7." A Fantasy release of Prestige Records, Tenth and Parker, Berkeley, CA USA 94710. It's fun to "tune" your ears with Rollins and Roach and then dive into Thrak or somesuch. But great stuff in its own right. Later Kho ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 17:53:10 EST From: Matt Dawson Organization: University of Louisville Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #268 to the person who wondered who the female voice was in the Sylvian/Fripp "Darshan". It's Ingrid Chavez, Sylvian's wife. She was formerly on Prince's label. I'm not sure if it's a sample from one of her albums or if she recorded those spoken words just for "the first day". -Matt ------------------------------ From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: Fripp and Eno Date: Thu, 28 Mar 96 10:47:00 EST So what do we have here? Fripp does a nine hour show where he is able to do his nails. Eno does a show in Berlin where folks feel free to just get up and leave (apparently it was very cold). Both do a little tweaking letting devices of which they are masters provide all. I'm calling these "Shows for the blind." Why look at all? I like it. I describe this to a non-listener. He asked, "Is it music?" I tried profundity, "They're trying to take it to another level." Is this the level where (eeeK) we don't need musicians at all? The collaboration I want is another Fripp and Eno. buy art not cocaine, tj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 07:50:57 +0100 From: a1819801 at athena dot rrz dot uni-koeln dot de (Sal Pichireddu) Subject: Re: Gideon B Banner and more On Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:15:49 -0500 (EST) Gideon B Banner asked: > >Anyone know who this guy Holger Czukay is? I keep hearing aboutq him, but >have no idea who or what he is, but would love to know. Maybe I can help you. Holger Czukay is founder/ member (bass gtr and more) of the legendary german 70s progressive rock band CAN (1968 - 1977), then he went solo. If you're interested, you should get the "Canibalism"-compilation, which gives you a very good overview of the great music of Can. HC collaborated which many international artists, such as Jah Wobble, The Edge and the early Eurythmics (before they became a famous pop band). 1988 he recorded "Plight and Premonition" with David Sylvian. Hey, am I the only KC/ RF Fan in Germany. Well, it wouldn't surprise me. I'd like to know, if it is possible in the USA (and/ or UK) to get "USA" and "Earthbound" on CD. It's unaviable in Germany, but maybe I could order it at my local record shop. ------------------------------ From: Stuart Wugalter Date: Mar 29, 1996 09:02:22 Subject: DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU VALUE YOUR SANITY!!! Dear ET'ers: Well...first things first: Mucho Kudos Toby (for all the work keeping this list operational)...haven't checked out the web site yet (too impatient to to deal with all the graphics ). Thought I would de-lurk again to make a couple of points: You people take yourselves WAY TO SERIOUSLY! My thanks to ebest for the latest comments on this phenomena (and all the others as well). For me this is about music. (This is the other thing I've been wanting to qpost here). Hmmmm....I'm reminded of the liner notes to Olivier Messien's Chronochromie for Orchestra (sp?) in which he discusses being able to 'see' music. BTW, if someone knows where to get a copy of the liner notes I would be mo$$$$t appreciative. Messian goes on to say that for those who have difficulty with this, they might try peyote to help the process. I believe this album was sold in the mid to late 60's. As a practitioner of certain mental exercises (mainly shutting up! ), I have noticed that if one quiets the mind, certain music, that may appear to be 'The Noise' ;) becomes heavenly sounding. I have noticed this with much progressive music...one has to open one's mind to the experience! Art Bohart and I wrote a paper about experiential learning in psychotherapy, but I believe the same concept applies. If one can learn to unlock the doors to one's own perception....well enough of that claptrap . Well back to the point: I believe that Hendrix also talked about this and referred to the Axis as the place where sound and light were one. I think he also made reference to this in his concept of a place called electric ladyland. Anyone know the source of these quotes? I can't seem to find where I read them. This theme also shows up on Heroes by Bowie in the song Sound & Vision. For me this is the essence of KC music from whatever era: it's quite an experience. [Not to take *myself* too seriously (guilty here too!): I could be wrong about all of this! It might just be a bad chemical imbalance in my brain.] For me, I must *FEEL* KC music to really appreciate it. Feelings, as defined by Bohart & I, are more than mere emotions. They include all of our cognitive, emotional, physiological experience, and more. We contend that's why it is so hard to (e.g.) tell someone what it was like to be at a particular concert. Okay, enough hippie shit for now... ...maybe not... I'd love to hear KC do some Hendrix....but God so many have done it. How about the Pali Gap KC style? I would like to hear a vocalist who is at least as accomplished vocally as the musicians in KC are with their instruments. Don't get me wrong, I love AB's voice, but he does not have the quality of say Annie Lennox whom some have spoken of here. So my 1 cent is that Annie Lennox would be a bad choice to sing with KC. KC music has (at times) an evil quality to it (soundtrack to Hellraiser V?) and Annie hasn't had that since she left to go solo. She also appears to lack the songwriting talents of the Lennox/Stewart duo. I am not trashing her though as I have most of her solo stuff and Eurythmics albums. I read in The Harmonious Circle (a book about Gurdjieff and his followers) that Eurythmics was some kind of teaching method developed in England around the turn of the century. It incorporated sound and movement and was an offshoot of Gurdjieff's school. Small world! My mind goes off into amazing tangents doesn't it? While I would not qualify her as being an accomplished vocalist, I would like to hear Jeanette Napolitano sing with KC. She used to be the lead singer of Concrete Blonde and I think she and AB would be a killer duo. If anyone knows them, put 'em together. If you like KC and CB let me know what you think. I really love her voice, CB's different rhythms, and the themes in their lyrics. Also, some of the 'talking' parts she does are great. Hmmm...maybe she *is* an accomplished vocalist...I'm no judge of musical abilities. Along the same tangent lines as female vocalists reminds me of a killer video I saw on PBS one night a couple months ago. It was a Laurie Anderson concert with AB on guitar and he even did some performance art. It was way kewl (hey! I'm from LA. Get a life, dude. ;) AB's influence reminded me so much of stuff from the Discipline album that it re-kindled my interest in the album (I go through phases like the moon, okay?). When I compared the date of the album to the concert it was gratifying to see the impact on Anderson's music over 5 years after Discipline came out. Early vs. Later KC: For me, the difference I noticed most (I started to pay attention due to ET!) is the drumming. In early KC, the percussion section is excellent, but it seems like it is very structured...the word cadence (from their song) seems to capture it for me. Even though their are some jazz riffs to the drumming its not like Bruford. I think he really changed the whole feel of the music. When I saw them in '72 (approx.) I first realized I was listening to a percussionist and not a drummer. He makes all kinds of sounds and rhythms from all over this planet (and perhaps a few others) and he seems like he is enjoying himself so much. I just bought the Howe, Wakeman, Bruford & Anderson video (not necessarily in that order) and I love watching Bill work/play. What do actual percussionists/drummers think of this theory? The post quoting Greg Lake: ITCOCK was *not* the first orchestral rock album. Days of Future Past pre-dates it by 2 years I think. The difference I see is that while the Moody's use 'classical' symphonic type melodies, KC uses contemporary as well as classical sound. ELP has done the same (e.g., ELP re-make of Ginastera piano and orchestra piece). For those of you who *do* take the advice of a recent ET'er and go listen to folk music, I recommend the female singer Ferron. She is my favorite. Weird request: I very badly want to get a copy of the words &/or music to Witchi-tai-to by Jim Pepper. This was re-done instrumentally by Oregon, Jan Garbarek, and my Creator knows who else. Also, does anyone know why the video 'The Noise' is not re-released by KC? Or the Japan video from the same period. These were both legit at the time from what I know. Why not re-release them? peace Stuart E. Wugalter "Shut-up your clap-trap mind and listen! Soak it up, enjoy it and revel in its glory and give some back!" --me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 12:59:28 -0800 From: RyuichiSh at eworld dot com Subject: Obscurities: Palmer-James & Fripp Fellow Crimzoids, The other night I was watching a late night "B" movie starring a then unknown Jim Carrey. The name of the movie is "Once Bitten, Twice Shy" and apparently it came out around 1985. While the credits were rolling I noticed that the lyrics to one of the songs was credited to a Richard Palmer-James. Could this be who I think it is? Also, around the late 70's early 80's I came across an album which had a sticker on the cover stating "Featuring Robert Fripp on The Track Hound Dog". If my memory serves me correctly, the album cover had a proto-punk rocker in a black motorcycle jacket in the center with a red background. I did not buy it and have only seen it that one time, but I am curious if anyone knows about this song or the artist who performed it as I have not seen it in any discographies. Bruce ...literally thousands upon thousands of people stood and cheered for something they didn't even understand. (Roger Waters of Pink Floyd) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 18:39:53 +1000 (EST) From: ncorkind at ozemail dot com dot au (Neil corkindale) Subject: Thrak Sound & Sensitive Moments Several weeks ago I started the debate over the quality of "Thrak" and "Vroom". I thought I'd reply to some of the email that has been posted to me and ET. I had never intended to brag about the quality of my Hi-fi, indeed several of the other ET contributor's systems are definitely better. My point was that if Thrak sounds harsh and shrill on a good hi-fi, I hate to think what it sounds like on a typical Japanese midi-system! (Compare Thrak with ELP's "In the Hot Seat". Although the music is poor, the quality is very good.) I've just borrowed an Audio Research valve pre-amp Even that can't help the sound! I've tried listening to Thrak again, but the mid-range irritates me! Yesterday I picked up a promo CD called "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream". The first track was a live version of "Walking on Air", which sounds great. Then "Sex Sleep..." and "One Time" are edited versions from Thrak. Again, to my ears they sound very shrill. I think the problem is with the mixing process at that particular studio. I agree and acknowledge about artists using the production as a form of musical statement, I am aware of poor monitors and/or the studio sound affecting the final mix (eg Larks Tongues) and the role of the engineer. However it seems to me that the tonal similarity of the two guitars, stick and cymbals and because Belew has, compared with John Wetton, a weak voice (though expressive, listenable and in tune) causes the shrillness. I remember reading in the "Frame by Frame" booklet how Fripp lectured Bruford on careful use of cymbals to allow the other musicians "space". It sounds to me that that space has now been over-filled with Belew's vocals, an extra drummer and stick. The above track "Walking on Air" sounds great - Belew mixed it himself! This problem was not apparent to me on "Discipline"," Beat" or "Three of a Perfect Pair", so I wonder if it is the mixing that is the cause of the shrillness? I've now got two recordings by that line-up that I'm unimpressed with and two that I am - "Bboom"and "Walking on Air" that are very good. I conclude that it is the studio - re-enforced by the email from the contributor who said a recent Peter Gabriels's cd has a similar shrillness. The studio belongs to Gabriel! In a recent interview in a guitar mag, Fripp said that his role in Crimson was that of "quality control" - his wordsl. I'm not happy that a poorly mastered (according to Fripp) CD version of "In the Wake" or "Lizard", from the early 70's should sound so much better than a recording from the mid 90's. Any comments? I'd also agree with the email about Fripp not having played a solo since about the time of "Exposure". It seems a shame that one of England's finest guitarists is effectively playing rhythm guitar! I'd love to hear Belew playing a more support role, with Fripp lashing out once or twice! Lastly I for one am against "sensitive moments whilst listening to King Crimson". If I wanted sensitive moments I'd listen to Phil Collins! Ridiculous! But if that person wants mine... I'd bought "Larks Tongues" on a second hand cassette in 1973. It sounded wrong - no bass drums, etc. So I bought it on LP. Again no bottom end. So I upgraded my cartridge, but with no luck. In 1988 or so I bought the CD. When that had no bottom end I gave up, realising it was a problem with the master tape. Then I got to hear the re-mastered version of Larks Tongues Part Two, in all its glory, on "Frame by Frame" in 1991 (I think!). After nearly twenty years I finally got to hear it properly. I played it really loud. Bliss! My wife complained which led us to a four hour row and then a divorce! She didn't understand what it meant to me hearing that piece properly! Fortunately my girlfriend today does, and she's happy for me to play Crimson - preferably the older stuff with Greg Lake.... Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 18:43:48 +1000 (EST) From: ncorkind at ozemail dot com dot au (Neil corkindale) Subject: Pete Sinfield I came accross an email interview with Pete Sinfield, in a back issue of ELP Digest, which is similar to Elephant Talk. This is what Sinfield had to say about Crimson - read the last paragraph first! KING CRIMSON The first 4 albums 1969-1972 CW,CP,AD. . . .Yes including the one with the big red face (a mirror image of my late friend the artist Barry Godber) and those `songs' Schizoid Man, Epitaph, Court of the Crimson King, Talk To the Wind, Cat Food, Cadence and Cascade, Islands, Formentera Lady Etc. Etc. And here is this month's clever answer to the FAQ "What is Robert Fripp really like"? Well Robert, who in another life may have been a tram driver, has always seemed to me to be as much `mad scientist' as moralising artist. What you don't see is what you usually get. And while we're here let's answer another FAQ namely "Who Started the band KING CRIMSON". Well the version according to Mike Giles and myself goes like this. . . . Once upon a time, long ago in a little town in Dorset, there were two brothers. Michael Giles who played the drums and his brother Peter who played bass. They practised and practised till they were ever so good and then naturally desirous of earning a shiny shilling or two placed an advertisement in the local paper for an organ player of like mind and equal dexterity to join them to make music en tres, or ent'resting music. (sorry) ANYway imagine the cocking of ears and arching of eyebrows one fine spring day when a young, curly-haired pale faced and bespectacled chap popped his head round the door of their rehearsal room and announced quietly in a voiced edged with hawthorn-- "Hello my name is Robert er Bob Fripp and I have come about the position mentioned in the paper, I can't play organ very well but I do play guitar." HE DID . . ! indeed he did and amidst the excitement they called themselves "Giles Giles and Fripp" and it was good and the spirit was not so much upon them as hanging around for a bit wondering what was going to happen next. They started to make an album for Decca and towards the end of that project were joined by multi-instumentalist Ian Macdonald fresh, as they say but often mean knackered, from five years playing clarinet in in the army. Realising suddenly over a period of months ( I know I know ) that to move away from the whimsy of their first, to put it bluntly, unsuccessful, record that they desperately needed a real singer they recruited Greg Lake, another Dorset boy, from a group called "The Gods" and he played bass as well. Actually not as well as Pete Giles but he could sing like an angel albeit fallen in his case; exit Pete Giles and there they are. There are four people called Giles Giles and Fripp rehearsing a strange version of Joni Mitchell's "Michael From Mountains" in a cellar resembling the black hole of Calcutta beneath "Greek George's" Fulham Palace Road cafe in West London just about a small park and a five hundred tombstones away from where I was born. And. . .where am I all this time? Well now I'd had the great good Ian's mate who wrote the lyrics, made the tea, built the lights, humped the equipment, mixed the sound, designed and stuck up the posters, got the album cover together and against some opposition persuaded the band, in which I had become `the one that didn't actually appear on stage', that it would henceforth be known as King Crimson. MACDONALD & GILES "Birdman" a 20 minute `suite' CW with Ian for side two of ex-Crimsos joint venture in 1970. Yes there is talk of the original band reforming if only to fill in the gaps in the Castle Communication's documentary which is currently in pre-preproduction. . .But Fripp has to tour and record with his current rose by any other name through the end of T94 and then we'll see. . . Do not hold the breath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Mar 96 21:45:39 EST From: bart6443 at oak dot ait dot fredonia dot edu (Robert A. Bartz) Subject: A few things I picked up today I was at a record show in Buffalo, NY today, and ended up getting mostly Fripp-related stuff. First, "God Save the Queen/Under Heavy Manners." I like the Frippertronics on this one, as I do most of them, but the Discotronics and the singing and the like, well, maybe it's better that was only on that album. At another vendor, I naturally went to the "K" vinyl section. And as I looked, what did I find but a very nice-looking copy of USA! I must tell you, this is a VERY good recording. Especially "Schizoid Man", and the way "Easy Money" was slowed down at the end. As far as sound quality is concerned, I don't hear anything wrong with it. I do hope Fripp decides to release it on CD soon. I kept looking and, perhaps not surprisingly, I saw the previously mentioned "Mining Rocks" recording. I'm listening to it right now for a second time, and I must say I enjoy it. It's funny how they put Fripp's article about bootlegging right on the back cover. I'd recommend getting it. I also got Greg Lake's first solo LP on half-speed master($4 at that!), not just for Greg but also for Gary Moore. Any other fans of him out there? I only knew him as a blues man until I picked up Colosseum II's "Strange New Flesh" with Don Airey (later with Rainbow and guesting on Sabbath's "Never Say Die") and Neil Murray (Whitesnake, Sabbath). Great guitarist. Also Al DiMeola's "Elegant Gypsy", since he's another of my favorite players. Well, here's hoping for more new Crimson soon. Can't wait to hear more THRAK in progress. Bob -- Bob Bartz - bart6443 at oak dot ait dot fredonia dot edu Home page: http://www.lm.com/~rbartz Go Pens! ------------------------------ From: haiders at kenyon dot edu Subject: my moving KC experience Hello all-- This isn't really that moving, but it was pretty neat. My friend and I (both musicians in the same prog band) went to see Crimson in Columbus, OH on the THRAK tour. The show was great and I was pretty much speechless. Afterwards we went to the back of the building to see if anyone from the band would give autographs. Unfortunately, only Pat Mastelotto decided to entertain the 8 or so of us left after freezing in the wind for about 45 minutes. The great part was talking to the other prog fans. After going months at a time listening to radio that still plays songs from Metallica's last album every hour, and enduring other mindless music, it was great to talk to people with the same interests and share stories and rumors. Sean Haider ------------------------------ From: David Kirkdorffer Date: 25 Mar 96 19:15:07 EDT Subject: what is -- is, criticisms & frippophilia & FRIPP-O-HOLIC Hi -- I'm responding to <> posting to ET on the subject of Frippophilia. <> what a charged first correspondence! I agree with you. An emulation of "Frippy-things" can be recognized at Crafty/Crimson shows and in some ET postings. What motivates such activity can be speculated upon, and what our feelings are toward it can be discussed. And I'm guessing your posting will bring forward some further postings in this and related topics. Possibly even overshadowing some other ideas you propose: "...art essentially involves a social relationship..." This is very intriguing. Can you elaborate? As to my "sound-quality of THRAK" posting; the 1,2,3 equation-like format does tip a "geeky" scale somewhere. It certainly is a bit priggish. But then I confess to that at the outset -- >*Stiffly and pedantically, let me add this to the "sound quality of THRAK" discussion, and pose a question. I'm sorry if my posting's "style" got in way of my main point -- which maybe it did. My knowledge of such things is thin, but I think far eastern religions point out "stuff is the way stuff is, and that is the 'way' of that stuff." To want something to be otherwise would be to make it something else and undoes the qualities it presents. THAT'S a lot of what I was trying to get at. Let me take a quotation from you to explore another point. > Put most bluntly, it is completely valid for a member of an audience to believe and argue that a performer got it wrong. To which I reply: Sure, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Sharing thoughts and opinions can be interesting. But when opinions turn into unsolicited advice, who is it helping, who asked for it? As to suffering from "frippophilia" -- personally, I don't think I put Fripp on a pedestal. But, remember this is ET, the Internet Newsletter on Fripp/Crimson -- a place where Fripp fans congregate. I suspect like a few others on this list, it's a hobby of mine to follow Fripp's music and I do really love a lot of Crimson. Personally, I don't agree or care for certain of his choices. So what? To me it seems a little silly and futile to offer unsolicited opinions for things I have no input toward. In closing, let me bounce one back. Only to point to some ironic humour and with no desire or intent to deface you or your opinions, many of which I share with you (honestly, I mean that) -- do these phrases from your posting remind you of someone? >My purpose in writing is a point of concern. and.. >There is no performance without an audience David Kirkdorffer PS. If you're web-enabled and want to check out if Fripp has commandeered or sabotaged my musical calling, surf to -- http://users.aol.com/sayaaahh/little_a.html My web-savvy and extremely kind bro (Daniel) has put together a web-site for the band I'm in -- little a. If you can play the music files, I would be interested in feedback & opinions, but I may not change what I do because of them! ******************************************************************************* PPS. Are you a "closet frippoholic?" Sleepless? Breathless? Seeing red, blurry three of a perfect pair vision? Heatbeat a little schitziod? Suffering from over-exposure? Do you march for no reason? What are the signs of "frippoholicism?" Help others take the first step -- admit they are powerless over their red nightmare. Please submit to me (not Toby) what you believe to be signs of an encroaching frippoholic state by April 15. Put FRIPP-O-HOLIC in the subject line and I'll compile and post results. ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:25:03 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Damage This last weekend I took the time to listen through all of Damage. Now perhaps I've been using the scroll bar too much, but I don't remember reading anyone mentioning that this record has some of Fripp's best work of his entire career. Although Sylvian's voice gets a little monotonous, Fripp is totally wailing. If one had to buy a single record to find out what Fripp is capable of, this would be it. It's exactly this kind of playing that I have missed in the last tour of KC. The whole record has brilliant lines and solos. Sometimes there are so many ideas pouring forth that I momentarily think of Coltrane (but then I hold myself back, for that would practically be blasphemy in Jazz circles!). Damn. Not only does he play ridiculously fast with seemingly no effort at all, he plays with that sort of high-tech, lightning Sci-Fi sound that is unmistakable. And never a cliche: listening to Fripp, I am never able to say "I coulda thought of that". And although I'll probably be criticized for it (for reasons I still don't understand), I will state that the sound quality of this live recording is quite good--much better than B'Boom. The high-reflectivity of the gold CD also really makes the sound more tangible and realistic. It's good to have Fripp's best work preserved in this fashion. Guess I'm babbling, but over the years we have gotten little bits and pieces of this kind of playing from Fripp--this is the whole tamale and it really kicks ass. -Emory. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #269 ********************************