Errors-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #264 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 264 Thursday, 7 March 1996 Today's Topics: ET Justifying NST friendly fripp Fripp, Bruford to Guest in UK Reunion??? Nahhh... ET: opinions: LTiA3 - Huh?; Fripp/Metallica Boring... Thrak Sound Miscellany Re: this night wounds time CGT in Santa Fe, New Mexico with Trey... Lark's 3 appreciation course (none) Re: "I only paint what I see" per v95 #263 Comparison of LTiA and USA Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #262 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #263 THG (for the last time?) Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #263 Summers/Etheridge album New Standard Tooning Mike Giles in Double Trio? B'Splat! Either Orchestra The Mincer Re: Elephant Talk Frame by Frame, Greenaway Phillip Glass's Low, ICCK Damage sacred songs Administrivia: POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk UNSUB/ADDRESS CHANGES: The DIY List Machine is back! At www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list Visit ET on the web at www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ** If you want to opt for new 'ET BULLETIN' service, where instead of the whole digest you receive a short email announcing the latest edition is out, and where to read it on the web, email me, toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk, saying: "ET BULLETIN -- YES". ** The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ** THE BANNED LIST ** As of this issue, further discussion along the lines of the benefits of tuning BAGPIPES in the New Standard Tuning, or anything remotely connected with Thela Hun Ginjeet, is *OFF LIMITS*. Posts will be bounced. You havce been warned! :-) -- Toby ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 15:09:35 -0800 From: "J.P.Bozo" Subject: ET Justifying NST > RF's comment that EADGBE tuning is arbitrary does not stand up to > examination. How is it any more arbitrary than CGDAEG? OST is built up One justification: in OST the exception (the major third) is in the middle of things; in NST the exception is off to one side (the top string). In NST you can ignore the top string and learn the lower 5 strings without bothering about exceptions (more general, you get more for your learning). j.p.lewis interval research ------------------------------ From: Gregg Ulrich Subject: friendly fripp Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:30:49 -0800 (PST) i ran into robert fripp one day and found him to be nothing but pleasant. it was after his first of two free shows in NY (winter garden i believe) and he was signing autographs afterwards. i was there with a friend and was only mildly interested at the time (i am more of a belew fan than a fripp fan). my friend was on line for an autograph while i was walking around the bookstore. i was looking at the shelves and paying zero attention to where i was walking when i walked into someone (and hit them pretty hard, straight on) who turned out to be fripp. i was embarassed and apologized profusely and told him how much i enjoyed the show. he was cordial and shook my hand when i extended it and hoped that i could make the next one. i proceeded to watch him on line for about half an hour. he was friendly with everyone and smiled. he signed whatever people asked (one asked for him to sign, "scott, if you can" and that was exactly what he signed, which i though was cool. when my friend asked him to sign the tamm book, fripp said that this was not a good book, but signed the crafty guitarist chapter because it was the only one he liked). he came across as incredibly human. i also heard that he has passed out cookies that his wife made and some shows. if he is really a jerk i didn't see it. maybe public appearances do not count. gregg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 01:11:50 -0800 From: edumark at ix dot netcom dot com (chris hoard ) Subject: Fripp, Bruford to Guest in UK Reunion??? Nahhh... On "In The Dead Of Night" UK digest, a certain Mr. Wilco Barg quotes a source close to John Wetton that, due to Holdsworth's refusal to participate in the new UK project now being recorded, RF and another guitarist will be guesting on some tracks. As far as I know, this is only rumour and speculation--and on that note... I suppose this isn't outside of the realm of the possible, as RF was originally involved in the project before the first UK album, according to Eddie Jobson, and agreed to participate only if it was to be called "The League of Gentlemen," and *not* KC. Fripp bailed out at the last minute for religious/personal reasons. Barg also stated Bruford had already recorded his tracks last fall. Can anybody close to KC confirm/deny any of this??? By many accounts RF and JW are still converse, get together, so the prospect of a KC/UK collaboration is not without precendent, and certainly that sort of organic proggie type mutation that smacks of Union--another matter Mr. BB once dismissed as a near-impossibility. I'm not holding my breath for UK, which also allegedly features the Bulgarian Women's Choir, or some such. I'm more interested in the indesputable fact that an insider's insider just alerted me to the scheduling of a remarkable new secret Wetton double album project, tentatively called "Sufi Dragon Wagon." It will be recorded late in '97 at Real World and will feature Wetton fronting a lineup along with Adrian Belew and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, backed by David Sancious, and the drummer from Pearl Jam. You can bet your boots on it. (Not)/Cheers/CH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 02:18:25 -0800 From: "J.P.Bozo" Subject: ET: opinions: LTiA3 - Huh?; Fripp/Metallica > What am I missing in 'Lark's Tongues In Aspic, Part 3'? The For me, the "mindless noodling" is noise from heaven. It's not as compositionally interesting as most KC, but sonically it is (For me. as a point of reference, I think Starless & Discipline are great beyond words). Does anyone know who plays the part in question (Fripp/Belew?). ---------- r.e. Metallica - Kirk H. is technically a very good guitarist; he knows music theory and uses alternative modes, wrote a theory column for one of the guitar magazines, studied at Berkelee(?), etc. His solo on To Live is to die (and Justice for All album) is another great favorite of mine...it has an 'out of control quality' similar to LTIAIII). Metallica sometimes plays in the boundary between dissonance and its opposites, though in quite a different way than KC. I recommend 'and Justice for All' to people who like Asbury Park (and provided you can overlook the lyrics and singer. There are long instrumental sections however). j.p.lewis interval research ------------------------------ From: "Caron, Antoine" Subject: Boring... Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 09:45:00 EST Please everybody: I think ET is getting big and boring. Why? Too much knick- knack, not enough passion. We thrive on the "banal" in the middle of the extraordinary. Here's a suggestion: why don't we start a series on "Great Crimson/Fripp moments" in which a person tries to put in words an intense experience related to our favorite obsession. It could be just listening to a tune driving down the highway, going to a concert, meeting a band member (I have my doubts about this one!), anything goes. The only rule is to illustrate how this band touches us, changes our lives. Isn't it one of the main reasons for this newsletter to exist? Antoine W. Caron caron at biotech dot lan dot nrc dot ca P.S. Don't get me wrong, I like what Dan (reviews) and Tefkros (poll)are doing. Please newcomers, read the FAQ and search the back-issues and stop asking the same questions over and over ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 10:56:54 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Thrak Sound As for Orn Orrasson's comments on Thrak Sound, I would strongly recommend finding an LP version of Thrak (if such exists) and playing it on your wonderful Linn Sondek turntable. The Technics is a piece of junk, as is the vast majority of Japanese and popular digital stuff. As a quick and wonderful fix, I reccomend to anyone getting a good outboard D/A converter (like the wonderful Audio Alchemy Digital Decoding Engine 1.1). You will hear a vast and stunning improvement. You do require, however, the your CD player have a coaxial (or Toslink Optical) "Digital Out". On my system, B'Boom (the Thrak cut) in particular sounds almost as if it's being played live in my living room. I will admit, however, that on some tracks there is very little spacial information linking the playing with their environment, an approach to recording that is dying in audiohpile circles. On Secret Garden, for instance, there's lots of spacial information and . This brings up the general question of whether or not an album should be mixed to sound good on great equipment (making it possibly sound funky on less-than-great equipment), or mixed to sound good on the average rig. Lots of arguments could be made, but in the case of King Crimson, I would say it is clear: what is expensive equipment today may be affordable tomorrow, so mix for tomorrow. In the case of madonna, no one will remember her in a few years, so they better mix for the boom boxes and crappy systems she is undoubtably played on. -Emory. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:15:49 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Miscellany Anyone know who this guy Holger Czukay is? I keep hearing aboutq him, but have no idea who or what he is, but would love to know. Thanks greatly for the drum tuning posting: very interesting. Thela Hun Ginjeet: Won't you please drive me to Firenze (or whatever it is) My idea for the next Fripp collaboration: Buchanan/Fripp '96! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:04:47 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Ray Pinke Subject: Re: this night wounds time The small painting on the back cover of Starless and Bible Black is a reproduction taken from a book entitled "A Humament" which consists of overpaintings of every page in the Victorian novel "A Human Document." Sorry, I can't give you the artist's name offhand, perhaps someone can find it. I saw it at a design exhibition quite by chance several years a go in Klagenfurt (Austria) and have never heard of it nor seen it since. Enough already of tuned drum and NST vs. OST ramblings and nonsensical Fripp collaborations (please!). Brian ------------------------------ From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: CGT in Santa Fe, New Mexico with Trey... Date: Tue, 05 Mar 96 15:07:00 EST Well I wasn't actually there but no one seems to have reviewed this show and a friend of mine did go but he is mired in producing his own album...(_Man Overboard_)... this is for the first night. Just a few tidbits: The place was only half full. Bill Jansen (sp?) (did he play with Belew?) opened in the back of the church slowly into some jazz madness making everybody sit up and notice. Trey played his Warr guitar for a few tunes and then pulled out an acoustic guitar and joined the CGT . My friend and his girlfriend went only my advice (I called the night before) so the only tune he recognized was Bach's Toccata and Fugue. He did say that it was just an excellent evening and the few hours of driving from Taos was worth it. So the boys are off to Italy now and Hawaii after that. Hope we can hear about those shows. Oh yah (duh), my friend is do his recording in a studio in Santa Fe (sure seemed like a nice one to me). The engineer there told him that Trey had been there the week before doing some stuff (recording?)..... and the other news is that Trey lives (or at least hangs out in) Taos. Dreaming of round trip tickets to London. tj buy art not cocaine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:04:53 -0600 (CST) From: Alicia Sepulveda Subject: Lark's 3 appreciation course To that poor soul that asked for help in appreciating Lark's 3: 1) I've found it helpful to think of part one as the Avant-garde Lark's tongues in Aspic, part 2 as the hard-rock one and part 3 as the technopop version. 2) The second part (of Ltia 3)'s rhythm is not unenthusiastic: it's quite playful. I didn't get it from the record at first, but after a few listens (and with a lot of help from the live version in the Toapp video) I got it! You really have to see Adrian and Tony doing some elephant walkin', while Fripp squirms over his solo. Hope that helps you get the best off the one truly excellent tune in ToaPP. Pablo ------------------------------ From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 18:16:40 -0500 deon dot banner at yale dot edu> asks: >I keep hearing that the 80s Crimson took influences from minimalism (via >Belew's connection to Talking Heads and the New York minimalist music >scene and Fripp's concepts of music and Bruford's African and other >non-Western influences) and gamelan music. I understand the minamilist >influence; but the gamelan one confuses me. I'm not that familiar with >gamelan: what's the connection? The interlocking rhythmic patterns. The composition Discipline would be a good comparison. A Gamelan in an Indonesian percussion orchestra of mostly bells & gongs. I have to tell you: I just love that stuff! David Beardsley IMMP & Bink! music dmb5561719 at aol dot com Superfinemagneticparticles "Murk" is now out. and I'm actually on this one! ------------------------------ From: "Eric Thornton" Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:54:40 +8 Subject: Re: "I only paint what I see" per v95 #263 In regard to the mindless noodles in "Lark's Tongues part III"; here's a "handle" you might like to grasp or at least appreciate. (sez the I of the beholder to he who paints what he c's) Please refer to "chaotic fractals" as a search parameter. If indeed you do paint, then someone must have said to you somewhere along the way that there are no straight lines in nature. Indeed most of our occedental music (most radio fer instance) is part 12 tone, but it is also mostly in a key signature that excludes disonent notes that would seem off timber or time.(i.e. familier). Go to the mideast or some indian hemispheric location and some frets are added or altogather missing from the instruments; giving them 24 tone deci-semi tones or whatever they can bend/shape. Or listen to a composer like Stravinsky or Zappa fer other instances. Sometimes you just can't paint between the lines like Dali, Picasso or various other cave wall arteest's. Though you know full and well where the lines may mostly be. Anyway "part III" is rather like throwing oneself off of a cliff by letting go of one finger at a time.(you know where you've been and kinda know where your going but they won't put the chalk marks around you till you get there) and if the cliff is big enophe you might even just keep going and no one will ever know where you went. Just so much more grist for the stone..... Eric S. T. "If half a B?".....etc.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:31:47 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Comparison of LTiA and USA Riesz, Ferenc wrote... > You can however find in USA (live 1975) what is missing in LTiA. The > songs from LTiA (LTiA 2, Exiles and Easy Money) are performed with the > deepest emotions and a perfect musical knowledge and virtuosity, > sounding much-much better than on LTiA. Thorough disagreement here, I'm afraid. When I first got USA I was impressed with the quality of the performances, particularly on 'Exiles' which always sounds rather weedy on LTiA by comparison. However, with the plethora of boots from the 74/75 KC floating about, it remains a mystery why he chose the selections that he did. There are better version of every cut on 'The Great Deceiver'. The recording quality isn't even up to much, particularly in view of the sound on SABB which makes some studio recordings seem indolent. Does anyone else think this album was something of a last minute throw-together? It would have made a weak note to close on. *------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland : Fax 0131-653-6124 *------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:04:40 -0500 From: recengnr at athens dot net (TL) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #262 >Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 21:08:20 +0000 (GMT) >From: "P. Thompson" >Subject: New Standard Tuning >Having just read RF's comments about NST versus OST in the current >edition of Guitar I should like to offer a few observations on his >comments and the subject in general. >RF's comment that EADGBE tuning is arbitrary does not stand up to >examination. How is it any more arbitrary than CGDAEG? OST is built up >mainly of intervals of a perfect fourth with one of a major third. NST is >mainly fifths with a minor third. No difference there. There appears to be. Tom Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 20:16:35 -0500 From: recengnr at athens dot net (TL) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #263 >Date: Thu, 29 Feb 1996 01:55:35 -0700 >From: archie at Synopsys dot COM (Archibald W. Campbell) >Subject: Remastering of '80's Trilogy >.Fellow Crimsonoids, >A simple question: >Why, oh why, did Fripp remaster Beat, Discipline, and Tree Of A Perfect >Pear? I really liked the sonic touches that were on the vinyl versions, >particularly "Sleepless". >Viva Bob Clearmountain and the original producers! Well, I would suspect that part of the reason may have been Bob Clearmountains ability to make everything sound like it's coming out of a Yamaha DX7. Yuk. Further, transfers to disc of analog masters bound for vinyl sound generally, well, horrible. Tom Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:56:29 -0500 (EST) From: Darius Subject: THG (for the last time?) So far "What are their names" makes the most sense to me, more than "Water remains" or my own idea, "Watery maid." My idea, btw, was due to my impression that "Thela Hun Ginjeet" was a proper name or title, thus I thought THG was the "watery maid;" however, since THG is actually just an anagram, my idea is right out. =) However, some of the lines Massei gives are clearly inaccurate; but in his defense it may not be due to his English, the lyric book he's quoting may be simply wrong. In any case, according to Symula, Belew's stated that he just made up words at the time, so it seems we can put the debate on THG to rest now. Likewise with the "meaning" behind LTIA, even if Fripp&Co. gave us their official explanation of the title, we could still debate whether that explanation was the "true" one or not, as well as other possibilities, endlessly; rather than that, perhaps we should move on to other topics now. Darius ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 22:36:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #263 From: lordabay at pipeline dot com (michaeldamianjeter) Hello, folks. A few responses to some things which have appeared. In #262, recengni at athens dot net described the legendary rumored collaboration b/t Emerson, Lake, Hendrix &Mitchell or Palmer as "pathetic." I believe a great deal of ELP was self-indulgent bs, and I think the only thing Carl Palmer had going for him was a big set(sorry; I know drummers think he walks on water), but it is beyond me how a collaboration b/t Hendrix and Emerson could be described as "pathetic." What am I missing? Also, Sasha Alain Wolf(Fripp at uclink3 dot berkley dot edu) raised a thread of possible collaborations. In the Yes newsgroup, many people talk about a desire to see a female vocalist to work with J. Anderson. I think a female partner for Adrian would be Killer. I know I am inviting major flames, but I would love to see KC collaborate with Madonna and/or Annie Lennox(I love their voices; Annie has an avant-garde presentation, and anyone who saw Madonna's performance on SNL two years ago knows she can kick when she has a decent band with decent music behind her) -- michaeldamianjeter There, by the waterside Here, where the lens is wide You&me, By the sea Taken in Tranqulity I am a Camera--St. Trevor of the Horn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 23:17:44 +0500 From: maddog at vt dot edu (Thomas Bail) Subject: Summers/Etheridge album Recently I ran across a new release by Andy Summers and John Etheridge. Most of you already know about RF working with Summers. This album really has a Fripp sound to it and should be checked out. Reminds me of the RF&LCG Show of Hands album. The album title is Invisible Threads and it's on the MESA label. *----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- > >As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. >Albert Einstein (1879=961955) > Thomas Bail Mathematics Department (W) 540/231-4171 email: maddog at math dot vt dot edu (H) 540/951-7394 web site: http://www.math.vt.edu/people/maddog/ ------------------------------ From: Randy Long -- Personal Account Subject: New Standard Tooning Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 01:28:01 -0500 (EST) First of all, I'd like to correct a number of recent posts concerning the new standard tuning that seem to all be making the same mistake. Everyone seems to assume a linear diachronic modality of tone waveform for isotropic scale flux in the NST, but remember- this tuning only works in standard discrete modulation. All thhis talk of tuning drums and whatnots to the NST must remember the interval composits rule of chord segmentation: that all chord consruction across diachronic polyphones must even out with harmonic meter sequences REGARDLESS OF TUNING- so you see, the guitar is the ONLY INSTRUMENT that can be effectively tuned to the NST. Now, I know to most of you that just sounds like a lot of jargon, but the more sedulous musicologists on the list will know what I'm talking about. I hope that clears things up..... -----Barton Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 01:28:48 -0600 From: jgreene at mixer dot visi dot com (steve) Subject: Mike Giles in Double Trio? I was looking back in the "Modern Drummer" issue with Mastellotto and Bruford, and was suprised to read that Michael Giles auditioned for the double trio right after Mastellotto did (Pat stuck around to meet him, and saw him unloading his cymbals from his car, still attached to the stands!) We know Ian McDonald was scheduled to particioate in Red-era doings. Fripp has said at one time or another all former members have approached him about working together again. He's playing on Wetton's UK project. Obviously Fripp has no real hangups with Crimso alumni, and Greg isn't working now (Greg Lake, not Greg Brady aka Johnny Bravo). Could a reunion tour of the original band be a possibility at some point? A comparatively low-tech antidote to the Thrak attack? There is no question that Fripp always has held the first edition of the band close to his heart, and there's no reason why there can't be more than one King Crimson extant at one given time. Middle age can be a wonderful thing, especially when you KNOW you need not prove anything to anyone anymore! Just a thought... ------------------------------ From: djhuckle at cord dot iupui dot edu@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 03:06:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: B'Splat! In response to Mr. Ross's evaluation of the tunings of the drums in KC, I say that's enough. I seriously don't think they sat in the studio and figured out what pitches would work well with which song. You guys are reading too much into the drums -- we tune them so they sound good. Bruford said that he cranked his snare up when in Yes to cut through all the amplified crap and liked that crack. Considering they are King Crimson, they may have done it once or twice, but who is going to get the tuner out when they are playing live, and re tune the drums to the correct pitchs between songs? And how can you hear a pitch of a snare drum when the fundamental tone has the snares rattling away. Also--when you hit the drum, it stretches and the heads go out of tune. Aaaahhhhhhh!!! Stop it! Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have tried to remain silent through that whole NST on drums crap and, to me, this subject is moot. Donald Huckleberry djhuckle at cord dot iupui dot edu Communications Technology Laboratory Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis CHECK OUT MY WEBPAGE!!! http://cord.iupui.edu/~djhuckle/ *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. -Butthead ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 07:47:05 +0000 From: khoffman at giantfood dot com (Kurt Hoffman) Subject: Either Orchestra I have all three of the EO discs, and I i feel that your description of them was a hair off. "improvisational jazz horn crap"... I understand (though do not agree with) not liking horn (or other kinds of) improv- lets face it, it is music of by and for musicians only (at least most of the time), and they may well have been college age when they started (although I met Gershon in 1995 when they gave a free show at Penn State which I drove 300 miles to be at- but then again I did the same thing for Helmet-, and he did seem older than twenty something), but I have found that they are a very disciplined, charted band whose soloing, while not minimal, is structured. The only thing I didn't like about their version of Red was the guitarist going way into left field (mercifully that is the only of their three albums that he is on), and I thought that the variations that they charted to the major melody break prior to the final reentry of the main Red theme were just shy of brilliant. As to name members, their drummer for most of their recordings was Jerome Dupree, who also was spending time in the group Morphine (he is on their first two albums, sharing drum duties with Billy Conway, who is the sole drummer on the third Morphine and who came from Treat Her Right along with Mark Sandman- who does the vocals on the EO cover of Temptation). Anyway, they are a Boston based band, and I think a lot of ETers who like the more horn influenced KC albums might find them very interesting and challenging, but might be turned off to them prematurely because of your view on them. But I still think you make a great and vital contribution with ET, and hey, its all just noise anyway. Kurt Kurt Hoffman Giant Food Inc 6300 Sheriff Rd. Dept. 770 Landover, Md. 20785 (301)341-8693 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 00:41:21 -0800 From: Sasha Wolf Subject: The Mincer I have a theory about what exactly "The Mincer" is about. What I am about to discuss can be a very sensitive topic for many of us, so forgive me if I offend anyone. I believe the song is about a rape about to happen. The murky character of the music gives me a picture of some dark, foggy London street where a Jack-The-Ripper-type is stalking his next victim. When the lyrics set in, he is "reaching" for her and about to "jump" her: Fingers reaching Fingers reeking Jump with a scream goodnight honey You're all alone Baby, breathing Makeup, better looking But they don't come badder (???) The song crescendos and then cuts off right as he is about to commit the rape. The very brutal and curt ending symbolizes the brutal behavior associated with the act of raping someone. This is a very powerful song, even though the subject matter is quite demented. As a male, this is probably the closest I will ever feel to being raped (I sincerely mean this). Again, I hope I didn't offend anyone with this theory. - Sasha ------------------------------ From: breachm at locumgp dot dnet dot co dot uk (Martin Breach) Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:25:46 +0100 On the Subject of Larks Tongues in Aspic, apart from the association with an outrageous delicacy, I had always assumed that it was a reference to the process of recording music. An analogy could exist between the process where 'living' music is frozen in a medium of some sort, such as a tape or record; and larks tongues in aspic. What I've occasionally wondered about is what 'It' in Indiscipline is. I've thought that it's most likely a guitar, or possibly a saxophone. Rather than encourage idle speculation does anyone know for sure? Finally having seen KK at the Albert Hall last year is there any word of further UK dates? [ No, but you'll read about it first in ET. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ From: ckk at uchicago dot edu Subject: Frame by Frame, Greenaway Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:06:13 -0600 This is my first message to the Elephant Talk list after lurking for a couple of months, hello everyone. I always assumed that the words for KC's song "Frame by Frame" (".... Death by Numbers...") were an allusion to Peter Greenaway's great avant-garde film "Drowning by Numbers" where there is a number appearing in nearly every scene, decrementing one by one, as someone dies each time. Also check out other great Greenaway films, like "Prospero's Books". I also notice the predominance of males among King Crimson and Fripp fans, even when I saw Fripp on his solo Frippertronics "Drive to 1981" tour in 1978/79, or the League of Gentlemen tour after that, or a League of Crafty Guitarists tour. Women just don't seem to be as interested in this "head music" stuff as much as guys are :-) (ducking as heavy objects are flung this way :-) Chris Koenigsberg ckk at uchicago dot edu, http://www2.uchicago.edu/ns-acs/ckk/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:16:59 -0600 (CST) From: Andrew Suber Subject: Phillip Glass's Low, ICCK Has anyone out there heard the "Low" symphony? It is a Phillip Glass composition based upon the main themes in the Bowie/Eno album "Low". It is a wonderful piece of work, and bridges the gap between two similar styles of music. Here is what I am wondering; will there ever be a "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" symphony? It is already a symphony in the broadest sense, but I think a project between Fripp and Glass could only further clear up the ideas behind LTIA. I never hear anything about "In the Court of the Crimson King" on this newsletter. I fell that that album is the most finely crafted, mindblowing concept album in the history of rock. It paved the way for everything truly great in progressive rock. I remember the first time I heard "21st Century Schizoid Man", I had never heard drumming like that in my whole life, each flourish of the guitar sounded like an expression of utter joy, and the bass bridged an impossible gap between rythm and lead. It, like most KC work, can not be improved. Has anyone noticed this? The drummer for ICCK, Giles, used a set of riffs and themes throughout the album. They appear over and over in different times and different structures. "I Talk to the Wind" and "21st Century Schizoid Man" have strange similarities, and these similarities can be applied more weakly to the other songs as well. If anyone else sees these drum fugues throughout KC's work, please turn me on to it. I love KC, and am very happy to have found a newsletter dedicated to the subject. Andrtew Suber ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:30:09 -0700 (MST) From: "ERIC D. DIXON" Subject: Damage OK, after months and months of looking, I'm finally turning to ET for help. Can anyone find me a copy of "Damage" by Sylvian/Fripp? When it first came out, I never noticed a copy in the stores, but didn't actively try to find it (I had no idea it was a limited release). Imagine my surprise when one day I tried to order it and found that it was no longer being made. Since then, I figured I could find a copy *somewhere*, but to no avail. If any of you know of a place that still has a copy to sell, please send me the address, phone no. and/or e-mail address. Or, if any of you have an extra copy you'd be willing to sell, let me know. I *really* want a copy of this album, but I've never even set eyes on it. Send replies to me personally, and thanks for your help. Eric D. Dixon eric at du2 dot byu dot edu Hey you! Yeah, you! Check out my homepage... http://newsline.byu.edu/newsline/StaffResumes/dixon/eric/brickpage "The Two-Holed Button concealed its apprehension." -- Edward Gorey ------------------------------ From: Obez at aol dot com@cs.man.ac.uk Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:38:34 -0500 Subject: sacred songs Does anyone know if the Daryl Hall solo album "Sacred Songs" has been re-released on cd? I would love to replace my scratchy old record with a new pristine cd. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #264 ********************************