From elephant-talk at arastar dot comSat Mar 2 12:49:07 1996 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:38:26 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #262 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 262 Friday, 1 March 1996 Today's Topics: South Bank Southscapes announced Announcement: "Now You See It" - music and dance for tomorrow. Re: Lark's Tongue Explication recent talk Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #260 Four KC live CDs for sale (1 copy each) Thela Hun Jinjeet Gitbox and drums volume pedals Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #259 NPR addresses on the net Re: Poll The meaning of B'Boom Apicius'tongues in Aspic New Standard Tuning King Crimson on line collabrations Fripp with Blondie Duty Free Art Pete Sinfield NST - the new religion?/Dead - as in "bring out your..." Russell Whitworth Robert Fripp playing with reformed UK? Thrak sound Multiple volume pedals for one guitar? Little Fluffy Clouds, Computers, Drums Belew doesn't use NST -- What's up with that? Female King Crimson Fans/One Of Them Responds Re: Fripp and ORB Web Pages - Reviews re: ET Post about FFWD meaning of Larks, Starless... Sylvian/Fripp bootleg CD Theory 101... Islands / Mincer Guitars in Multiple Tunings RE: Fripp music on NPR SaBB album rarity? Re: Lark's Tongue Explication LTIA, THGJ Lark's Tongues Explanation "Guitar as Orchestra" YES! Administrivia: POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Visit ET on the web at www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, etc., send a message to the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk ** If you want to opt for new 'ET BULLETIN' service, where instead of the whole digest you receive a short email announcing the latest edition is out, and where to read it on the web, email me, toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk, saying: "ET BULLETIN -- YES". ** The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:51:54 +0000 From: e dot mayall at ic dot ac dot uk Subject: South Bank Southscapes announced ET, A leaflet came through my door yesterday advertising "Now You See It - a Weekend Break of Tailor-made One-offs, an Opportunity to Explore Music of the Future." 7-10 March. One of the items is as follows: I can't help feeling that "now you see it" suggests "now you don't" and Bob won't actually be there....but it's got to be worth subjecting yourself to nine solid hours of 'scapes, even if there's no-one actually playing them. If anyone knows any more....... Ed ------------------------------ Date: 28 Feb 96 07:40:16 EST From: Discipline Global Mobile <73064 dot 1470 at compuserve dot com> To: Toby Howard Subject: Announcement: "Now You See It" - music and dance for tomorrow. South Bank Soundscapes - Robert Fripp Thursday 7 March 7pm-10pm Friday 8 March 6pm-8pm Saturday 9 March 1pm-10pm Sunday 10 March 6pm-10pm at the Queen Elizabeth Hall Foyer, London. 0171 960 4242 admission free !! A rare chance to see and hear Robert perform in London. Look out for Robert's new CD Radiophonics on sale in the Festival Hall shop, and under-the-counter from Discipline staff (it's cheaper from us - bring cash). Part of a weekend break of tailor-made one offs, an opportunity to explore music of the future. Also appearing: Tod Machover of MIT Media Lab, Boston presents the Hyperevent - looking at new ways of combining art, science and technology, and featuring a new generation of interactive musical instruments. Thursday 7 March 7.45pm Queen Elizabeth Hall, admission L12.50 / L10.50 / L7.50 Hypersymposium - the future of music is discussed by panellists Peter Gabriel, Brian Eno, David Toop, Howie B, Tod Machover, Kaffe Matthews, Rolf Gelhaar, Simon Emmerson and Robin Rimbaud (aka Scanner), chaired by Robert Sandall. Saturday 9 March 2pm - 6pm Purcell Room admission L7.50 The Reverse Effect - back to front dance - the audience sit on stage looking out onto the auditorium, lit and animated by some startling choreography from Wayne McGregor, Wendy Houston and Lea Anderson. Saturday 9 & Sunday 10 March 7.45pm & 9.30pm Queen Elizabeth Hall, admission L10.00 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 14:03:03 -0500 From: jmc at sdr dot utias dot utoronto dot ca (James MacKenzie Crawford) Subject: Re: Lark's Tongue Explication Mr. Wave (nextwave at peg dot apc dot org) wrote: > Monty Pythons Flying Circus did a sketch on their original TV season that > was based around a box of chocolates, Lark's Tongues in Aspic was one of the > flavours. This sketch was extremely funny and was broadcast the year before > the KC recording came out. Actually, that MP sketch (which I've got on an old LP) had the flavour "Lark's Vomit", as well as "Anthrax Ripple" and "Spring Surprise", and a dead frog flavour which I can't remember the title for. I doubt that this sketch had much to do with the Crimson trilogy. J. Crawford ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 96 18:46:14 EST From: "Neil J. Cavanagh" <76111 dot 3636 at compuserve dot com> Subject: recent talk Next wave wrote: >Monty Pythons Flying Circus did a sketch on their original TV season that >was based around a box of chocolates, Lark's Tongues in Aspic was one of the >flavours. As a million other British comedy enthusiasts would no doubt inform you, there wasn't any "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" in the "Whizzo Chocolate" sketch. There was, however, "Crunchy Frog," "Ram's Bladder Cup," etc. and even a reference to a certain delicacy being "garnished with lark's vomit." In the Python film "Life of Brian" (late 70's, post Aspic) at a coliseum event in New Testament times, a vendor(Brian) walks around the bleachers shouting his pitch, "Larks' Tongues!" The enigma never ends... John Mohan asked: >What's the story with the end of "The Mincer" on SaBB? It just cuts out as if >the tape had run right off the reel. Is that what actually happened? The answer, from Fripp in a KC booklet, is yes, it is. If any ET readers are interested in hearing about a new rock band with a strong KC/Fripp influence, check out http://www.tiac.net/users/njc/cf.html Neil Cavanagh ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 20:21:55 -0500 From: bpp105 at psu dot edu (benjamin milhouse perry) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #260 >From #260, concerning new releases for '96. >>From Discipline Global Mobile I got the news that another official bootleg is >going to come out this year with a live recording of the `69-line-up. If I >remember correctly it is the same concert where "Mars" on "Frame by Frame" has >been taken from. If this is correct, and the material on "Frame by Frame" is from the show I think it is (I don't have FBF myself), then the new release will b of the Plumpton Festival, Sept. 8, 1969. I have a CD bootleg of the show, the boot is called "Court of the Schizoid Man", it is absolutely amazing. Raw, symphonic, marvelous. The set list is the following: Schizoid Man Get Thy Bearings Court of the CK Improv (almost 30 min.!, incl. the Devil's Triangle / Mars thing, Travel Weary Capricorn, and other stuff that I can't identify) If this is released by DGM, it will be a great day for KC fans indeed! Bennie *-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Perry bpp105 at psu dot edu "We all make our futures but I have lost mine; --Peter Hammill, I'm hoping for a miracle "This Side of the Looking-Glass" But finding no sound..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 21:11:55 -0500 From: amnesia at GiG dot NET (J.F. Verreault) Subject: Four KC live CDs for sale (1 copy each) =20 Hello, I'm selling a few CDs to pay the heating bill, all of them live KC recordings. The price is 22$US each, postage included. If you're interested, email me at amnesia at gig dot net. First come, first serve. Here are the titles (description follows): - King crimson in concert 1973 + 1975 - Lost Islands UK 1971 - 21st century schizoid man - Live in Germany 73=20 A- In concert 73 + 75 (most probably 74) - Lark's tongues part one - Easy money - Train to Health - Lark's tongues part two - The Great deceiver - Lament - The Night Watch - Starless and Bible Black sound quality is excellent throughout. SGRS 020 *------------------------------------ B- Lost Islands - Circus - Pictures of a City - Ladies of the Road - The letters - Formentera Lady - Sailor's Tale - 21st century schizoid man - Islands - Groon Live at Brighton, Dome, 16/10/71 The performance is phenomenal, but I must warn that the sound quality is very poor. But the set list compensates... MPH CD 07 *------------------------------------ C- 21st Century Schizoid Man - Easy Money - Lament - Book of saturday - Exiles - Mincer - Talking Drum - Larks' tongues (extract) - 21st Century Schizoid man great sound. Live at the concertgebouw, Amterdam, Nov 23,= 1973 KCCD-B074 *------------------------------------ D- Live in Germany 1973 - Indiscipline (obviously from the eighties...) - Lark's tongues part two - Train to Health - We'll let you know - The Night Watch - Easy money - Cat Food TKCD 1110 ("limited edition 1000 copies" - don't know if it's true) the cover is great JF Verreault amnesia at gig dot net *-------------------------------------------------------------- "Si c't'un r=EAve r=E9veille-mo=E9 donc =E7a va =EAtre notre tour, =E7a sera pas long reste par icitte parce que =E7a s'en vient" (S.Fiori) ------------------------------ From: "Symula, Rebecca E. (MSMAIL)" Subject: Thela Hun Jinjeet Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 22:17:40 -0500 In response to Norma's question about Thela Hun Jinjeet...When my roommate and I met Adrian Belew in November, we asked what the title meant and it's an anagram for the phrase: "Heat in the Jungle" The words that he sings are actually " Heat in the jungle streets" He doesn't sing anything else. He said he just makes up sounds to the music... sorry for the disappointment Beckie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:31:05 +0700 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: Gitbox and drums >Git Box Rebellion is Nigel Gavin's group / CD based in Australia? New Zealand? New Zealand. Fie! How come them danged furriners can never tell the difference? ;) And, wading into the NST for drums debate, one point that seems to have been overlooked in all this is that a guitar tuning is a base upon which a guitarist, by fingering different frets, can gain whatever notes he/she needs. It is very rare for a guitarist to go through a whole piece without touching the fretboard. So to use a guitar tuning for a set of drums is only really sensible on variable tension drums like tymps. Having said that, to tune a set of toms to fourths does make a certain sense. I can quite imagine a track in the key of D, say, being accompanied by toms tuned to A, D, and G, with possibly C or B (for a minor feel) thrown in for good measure. And maybe, for recording, you could put them through a pitch changer to have them tuned to different keys for different tracks... James ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:28:34 +0700 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: volume pedals >I remember Fripp saying something in an interview about using "a couple of >volume pedals" in his setup. What can you do with two (or more) that you >can't do with one? Ah! The *real* reason why the Maestro sits down while he's playing! If he tried changing two volume pedals at the same time while standing, he'd fall over! James ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 00:03:29 -0500 From: recengnr at athens dot net Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #259 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 01:18:03 -0800 From: "David A. Craig" Subject: H.E.L.P. ??? >I was recently reminded of an old rumor i had heard on the subject of >possible connections between jimi hendrix and ELP. I was wondering if >any of you had any further leads or information to offer on the >following interesting rumors. (I enjoy number 3 particularly.) >|1. Greg Lake had a meeting with Jimi to discuss H.E.L.P. (Hendrix, Emerson, >|Lake, and Palmer), but Mitch Mitchell showed up drunk and spoiled everything. >|2. Jimi jammed with The Nice. >|3. Jimi liked Greg Lake's voice and bass playing (with King Crimson), and >|wanted him to replace Noel Redding. Actually, Mitch Mitchell had the foresight to understand that by showing up drunk he would save Hendrix from making the huge mistake of joining what may well have been, had it existed, the most pathetic rock band of all time. For this, we owe him deeply. Best Wishes, Tom Lewis Athens, GA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 23:37:45 -0600 From: penseur at intellex dot com (Ed Poe) Subject: NPR addresses on the net There is an NPR website at http://www.npr.org/. Most of the programs also have mail addresses: All Things Considered is atc at npr dot org Morning Edition is morning at npr dot org Talk of the Nation is totn at npr dot org I don't know the address for basic NPR info, but I'm sure you can get that >from the website. :-) - e - - - - - - - - - - - - "When I was five years old, my mother informed me that I was a genius. This, of course, came as no surprise to me." - Nicholas Slonimsky - Musician, Composer, Historian, Lexicographer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 10:01:17 +0200 From: Tefkros Symeonides Subject: Re: Poll Okay, ETers, the results are being calculated as you are reading this and this is the LAST CHANCE for anybody to send their votes. Just some comments on what I've got so far: LTiA, Red and Discipline (in no particular order) are competing for #1 and especially Red and Discipline are putting up quite a fight (with each other, while LTiA is, I believe, going for the gold). Anyway, you'll soon know. Right now I am casting my vote as well, which, if you're interested, is: 1. Court of the Crimson King (don't know why this one got so few points) 2. Red 3. The Great Deceiver Best regards, Tefkros Symeonides ------------------------------ From: "Niko P., 2743 (AUWI)" Organization: Uni O., FB Wirtschaftswiss. Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 09:07:25 GMT+100 Subject: The meaning of B'Boom Hi Crimsoids! I don't know whether there had been any discussion of the question where the name B'BOOM does come from. Therefore the following might be redundant. Anyway, at the end of the fourties MAX ROACH became famous as one of the most giftet bebob drummer. He was (is) an idol for generations of young jazz drummers. In 1979 he recorded an album with the name M'BOOM. It seems that the `M' stands for MAX. Since BILL BRUFORD recorded a drum solo called THE DRUM ALSO WALTZES (you can find it on MASTERSTROKES) which was composed by no one else but MAX ROACH, it is obvious that B'BOOM is a kind of name analogy where the `B' stands for BILL. I also have a question: Who are the the other musicians on the CD THE BRUFORD TAPES? Do HOLDSWOTH and STEWARD appear on it? Is it a live record? Bye, NIKO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 13:40:46 +0100 From: Marco Brucale Subject: Apicius'tongues in Aspic To Paul Fraunfelter: I checked 'De Re Coquinaria' by Marcus Apicius and the 'Satyricon' by Petronius, but couldn't find larks used as recipes. I discovered with some disgust that my ancestors used to eat flamingo tongues, storks with garum (a fermented fish sauce edulcorated with tuna blood), parrots, cranes, sow's vulvae and other splatter bits that wouldn't cut a bad figure if mentioned in Neurotica. But no trace of larks. I must go now - it smells like my giraffe's necks are burning... AVE MARCO ------------------------------ From: sheehanm at rosnet dot strose dot edu Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 17:21 EST I don't want to go too far off topic, but I had to respond to this: lordabay at pipeline dot com wrote, in reference to seeing the Grateful Dead's drummers (their names are Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzman) on TV: >> flabbergasted: I was right: each drummer is playing the same exact note, the same exact rhythm, the same exact drum or cymbal at the same exact time. << This is quite simply a ludicrous assertion if it is meant to characterize the Dead's drumming and percussion beyond this TV program, as a listen to any (yes, ANY) of the band's drums/space improvs over their 30-year career will readily prove. I have my doubts about the TV program, in fact--I've never known Mickey or Bob to be precise enough to play in this manner. They're sloppy, but fun. As to the references to the band's time signatures, a listen to the individual members', and particular, Garcia's, playing will reflect to the unbiased listener a considerable flexibility in time. Sometimes--and this may not be the case here, I'll admit--the preface "I'm not a Subject: New Standard Tuning Having just read RF's comments about NST versus OST in the current edition of Guitar I should like to offer a few observations on his comments and the subject in general. RF's comment that EADGBE tuning is arbitrary does not stand up to examination. How is it any more arbitrary than CGDAEG? OST is built up mainly of intervals of a perfect fourth with one of a major third. NST is mainly fifths with a minor third. No difference there. Fripp then continues by saying that the arbitrariness of OST was connected with problems to do with breaking gut strings. Fair enough, but why does Fripp utilise a minor third at the top of his tuning? Because to tune any higher generally results in the top string snapping. I think it is nigh impossible to get a string that is thin enough and strong enough to stand being tuned to a high B which would be required in order to make RF's tuning consistent. Why does RF feel that it is necessary to attack standard tuning? The way you tune your guitar is merely a means to an end. If you want to read some real rubbish about NST check out Eric Tamm's book and the chapter on Guitar Craft. For those of you experimenting with NST a neat trick to enable a consistent fifths tuning is to tune the top string to a lower B - that is, a fourth below the second string E. This means that chords played on the top four strings have that closed-position density that is usually not possible on a guitar. To facilitate this tuning it helps to swap the E and the B strings around on the guitar. This method of tuning is called re-entrant tuning and was much used around the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries to get over the problem of limited string gauge ranges. Theorbos, which are very large bass lutes usually have either the top or top two strings tuned down an octave. Several contributors have commented that NST is difficult in practice - because one has seven semitones before going up to the next string one either has to stretch ones fingers or shift position an awful lot. Playing around and above the twelfth fret does alleviate this problem - most of the photos of RF I have seen has him playing high up on the neck. I found that NST came into its own when played using the two-handed tapping method a la Jennifer Batten. The wider intervals seemed to accommodate two hands much more easily than OST which can tend to crowd the hands together. Finally, another interesting tuning with which to experiment is one based around major thirds. For instance C-E-Ab-C-E-Ab or Ab-C-E-Ab-C-E, low to high. I have not experimented much with this tuning but it seems to quite easy to construct scales and chords. Scales, in particular, are interesting because one can play any two-octave scale without changing position at all. The major-third tuning means that each finger has its own fret, removing the need for position shifting. Peter Thompson Wolfson College Cambridge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 12:42:01 -0800 From: Steven Hare Organization: International Pacific Halibut Commission Subject: King Crimson on line Toby, You may want to check out this site: http://www.audionet.com. It is a fantastic audio site and has a jukebox section with (as of today) 350+ full length CDs you can listen to with Real Audio's streaming software. Two of the CDs are King Crimson (The Compact King Crimson, In the Wake of Poseidon). Perhaps you could make link to the Jukebox site from your ET page or put this notice in the newsletter. -- Steven R. Hare Quantitative Biologist/International Pacific Halibut Commission P.O. Box 95009/Seattle, WA 98145-2009 Office: (206) 634-1838/FAX: (206) 632-2983/email: hare at iphc dot washington dot edu home page: http://www.fish.washington.edu/people/hare/Hare.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 13:50:48 -0800 (PST) From: Sasha Alain Wolf Subject: collabrations Since many of you have expressed your views on who you think Fripp should be working with, I thought I would throw in my two cents. Robert Fripp - - Ian MacKaye For those of you who don't know, Ian Mackaye is in Fugazi. Fugazi is a very intense band who are rapidly bridging gap between punk and progressive (and they said it couldn't be done. . . ). With Ian's in-your-face screaming lyrics and Fripp's guitar prowess, the possibilities are endless. People interested in Fugazi should check out their latest albuum: "Red Medicine". In particular, fans of progressive rock might enjoy the songs "Combination Lock" and "Version". - Sasha ------------------------------ From: "J. Alan Eldridge" Subject: Fripp with Blondie Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 21:52:37 -0500 (EST) I just picked up a Blondie collection of generally weird stuff, released rather recently, called "Blonde And Beyond". It contains, as it's last (18th) track, the recording of David Bowie's "Heroes" from the B-side of the UK 12-inch single of "Atomic". This was recorded live at the Hammersmith Odeon with Fripp doing his characteristic guitar part _quite_loudly_. It's, as some people might say, fan-f'ing-tastic. -- Alan Eldridge (alane at wozzle dot york dot cuny dot edu, also alane at libnet dot com) ------------------------------ From: ricjoly at odyssee dot net (Richard Joly) Subject: Duty Free Art Addind more fuel to the Fripp aloofness/Levin is rude threads ; Check out a great article _DUTY FREE ART, written by Sallie Tisdale, on the social responsibilities of artists to the society at large, and their public, and lack thereof, on the latest issue of SALON http://www.salon1999.com A great read, regardless of your position. Richard JOLY (not connected to Salon, in any ways) -- Richard Joly+++ ricjoly at odyssee dot net +++ricjoly at nyongwa dot montreal dot qc dot ca http://www.odyssee.net/~ricjoly/ http://www.odyssee.net/~ricjoly/ononet.html ( ONO-net Pages ! ) ------------------------------ From: Louise Ingram Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 10:59:23 -800 Subject: Pete Sinfield I'm looking for info on Pete Sinfield. Do you know if he has any current projects underway? I seem to remember reading, years ago that he was writing a book of poetry... can you tell me if he did? HELP!! Many thanks, Louise ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 14:19:23 -0500 From: Nel3 at aol dot com Subject: NST - the new religion?/Dead - as in "bring out your..." I've tried to hold my piece, but I feel compelled to say something re: the near-continuous babble about NST. Before ET BECOMES NST, please get a life other than the one you all are currently inhabiting. Thanks... btw, the first 30 or so posts, held my interest... On another annoying subject - the Dead - another (no doubt annoying reaction), comparisons are odious - especially between improvisation as represented by KC and "jamming" as represented by the Great(ing)ful De(arly Depart)ed. It takes no great skill to sit around jamming to loopy dual drum rythms for hours on end until something happens. Notwithstanding Jerry Garcia's playing with which I have the utmost respect, and the moderate skill of Phil Lesh and the aforementioned drummers, this is not a band in the same class as KC. I think you would be better advised to look into the jazz arena for competition and parallels... And for those who seem inclined to rate KC's various singers as a weak link, try listening closely to the chalk on a blackboard vocals of most dead songs... so please spare me more of these increasingly feeble and febrile attempts to link the dead w/the king. Thanks, too...and btw, I love Dark Star. Art Cohen - you were right - but it was too late - take heart, at least I didn't assault the hippie crowd... Vexatiously yours, Nel3 at aol dot com "The camel only sees the humps of other camels" - "Ancient" Muslim saying as quoted in Moon Over Morocco - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 07:51:29 EST From: haiders at kenyon dot edu Subject: Russell Whitworth Hello all-- This is my first post to ET and I just want to say that this is a great service. I've been on a few different mailing lists and this is by far the most interesting and the least annoying. The reason for my post is Russell Whitworth's post in the last ET. He talked about his experience of seeing and hearing Crimson live for the first time. My first experience with Crimson live was the Thrak tour. I had only heard Thrak and am embarrassed to say that I didn't Frame By Frame, Red, Thela Hun Ginjeet, or any of the many other cool songs they played. However, unlike most material that I hear for the first time (especially live material), I enjoyed everything they did immensely on first listen. Usually when you don't know how the songs supposed to go, I find it less enjoyable. I believe it is a testament to Robert and all of KC that they can write such wonderful material. I'm sure much of it also has to do with George Glossop, the wonderful soundman for the tour. Did most KC fans enjoy them the first time they heard them? Have a good time period of your choosing, Sean Haider ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 12:44 GMT From: psmarta at cix dot compulink dot co dot uk (Peter Smart) Subject: Robert Fripp playing with reformed UK? Whilst browsing a new site dedicated to the Canterbury scene http://www.alpes-net.fr/~bigbang/calyx.html I came across the following on their News page (quoted verbatim, and without permission) =========================================================== You probably know that a new CD by (legendary British progressive band) UK is currently being recorded. Initial plans were to reunite the original line-up - John Wetton, Eddie Jobson, Bill Bruford and Allan Holdsworth -, but the bad news is that the latter is not taking part (guitar parts will be played by Robert Fripp (!) and Francis Dunnery). Bruford has recorded his parts late last year, but has already said no for the subsequent tour. Anyway, rumour has it that the album, to be released this summer, will contain a 20-plus suite... Back to ambitious music, at last, John ?... =========================================================== Interesting! For those you may not know, Canterbury covers the bands originating from Soft Machine and Caravan, through Hatfield and the North, Matching Mole, etc. Looks like being an excellent site Pete ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 13:10:21 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Thrak sound Although I have previously trashed the sound of the early 80s stuff, I have to disagree with Neil Corkindale's statement that the THRAK sound sucks. I too have invested quite a chunk into my system (Thiel/McCormack/Sonic Frontiers/Audio Alchemy/Straigthwire Stuff), but I would suggest to Neil that the problem may be with your room. If you haven't controlled some of those resonances and echo, some recordings may sound great but some terrible, even with a great system such as yours. A good idea is to get a test recording and an SPL meter to see if the response is flat. When I first bought my system, it tended to sound shrill on certain recordings; a partial solution was to get a hold of some "Room Tunes" or other such devices. I now think THRAK sounds quite good for the most part, particularly B'boom and Secret Garden. Also, if your system is new, it may have not broken in yet. Or perhaps you know all this already and just still think the sound sucks! To each...... -Emory. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 13:13:48 EST From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) Subject: Multiple volume pedals for one guitar? >I remember Fripp saying something in an interview about using "a >couple of volume pedals" in his setup. What can you do with two (or >more) that you can't do with one? Steve Howe, when recording "Yours Is No Disgrace" for The Yes Album used two volume pedals. The guitar's signal was split into two channels, with one volume pedal for each. One went to the left and one to the right. This is how he achieved that strange stereo panning effect for a part of the song (if you've heard it, you know what I mean.) There are certainly other things you can do as well. You can split the guitar sound into many channels, and run each through a separate set of effects. A volume pedal on each channel is one way to control how much of each effect will get into the final mix. You have to do something like that if you want to vary the levels continuously while playing and you're live (so it can't be post-processed in.) ------------------------------ From: Paolo Valladolid Subject: Little Fluffy Clouds, Computers, Drums Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 10:28:52 -0800 (PST) > Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:33:21 -0500 (EST) > From: leslabb at postoffice dot ptd dot net (Les Labbauf) > Subject: ET Post > > Does anyone know of the specific song Mr.Fripp contributed to on the above > mentioned ORB CD? I have ORB's LIVE 93(Evil 39) and the song "Little Fluffy > Clouds" on disc 1 contains some guitar work that sounds very Frippy. He is "Little Fluffy Clouds" uses samples from "Electric Counterpoint", composed by Steve Reich and arranged for up to 11 multitracked guitars and 2 basses - all to be played by Pat Metheny. Steve Reich is often called a "minimalist" though his work predates those of Philip Glass, Brian Eno, and Robert Fripp. At any rate, Electric Counterpoint is a wonderful three-movement piece I hightly recommend to anyone who likes "crafty guitar"-type stuff though I must emphasize Steve Reich was composing this kind of stuff *long before* Fripp and Eno started experimenting with delays and such. Quite a departure for Pat Metheny, who as a natural improviser found it challenging to confine himself to the pre-notated lines. The chords that come in about 3 minutes into "Little Fluffy Clouds" are the opening chords to the piece which state the harmony. The repeating sampled guitar riff is from the third movement ("Fast") of the piece. Interestingly, the original repeating figure was in 6/8 time, but clever sample editing altered the rhythm to 4/4 time. Good luck finding the album Different Trains/Electric Counterpoint. Last I heard there was a university classical guitar ensemble that was performing Electric Counterpoint live. > Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:00:21 -0800 > From: DirkBill > Subject: Computer Question > > Greetings, > > What computer programs would this forum recommend for both appreciation and > composition? I own "Jump" by Bowie, and "Headcandy" with music by Eno, but > I am at a loss for any good programs for composition/creation. Also,if > there are any other good appreciation titles, please share with us. Max is a wonderful MIDI construction kit distributed by Opcode for the Macintosh. I understand there are also versions for the NeXT and for Silicon Graphics workstations. It is a very complex program but it comes with a easy-to-follow tutorial that will give you a lot of ideas. The book Interactive Music Systems offers a number of Max patches geared towards interactive music composition and performance. > Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:05:54 -0500 (EST) > From: Gideon B Banner > Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #258 > > Maybe someone should try to tune their guitar to sound like a drum set, eh? I'm sure you've heard and seen Adrian Belew play percussion on guitar synth by now. John McLaughlin recorded a MIDI percussion piece performed on MIDI guitar on his latest CD _The Promise_. -- Paolo Valladolid *----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ *----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado at waynesworld dot ucsd dot edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 13:54:19 -0500 From: STONE967 at aol dot com Subject: Belew doesn't use NST -- What's up with that? After reading Belew interview in the most recent Guitar Magazine I wondered if anybody knows why he doesn't use NST and maybe more importantly how does Mr. Fripp feel about that? Also does Fripp object to Fingerstyle Guitar? Oh yeah, transcriptions -- anybody have tab for "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream" or "People"? Thanks guys and gals. Have a groovy day. STONE967 at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 14:45:35 -0500 From: ckaratnytsky at nypl dot org Subject: Female King Crimson Fans/One Of Them Responds I have resisted the temptation to respond to the King Crimson gender-issue thing because it leads to making generalizations, which are only that. But the thread comes up again, so I'm de-lurking to offer my two cents. The reason there may be fewer female KC fans than male may have something to do with the intensity of the music. I'm not so sure about this, though, as there are plenty of women who love Beethoven, who is nothing if not intense. But, if we bring the discussion to the realm of progressive rock--the intensity expressed by the electric guitar (as opposed to the concert grand) may offer a more...what?...difficult? musical experience than most People (not just women) are interested in signing up for. When the electric guitar happens to be the one played by Robert Fripp, then we're on an entirely different level of playing and listening. We're talking about a Primal musical experience. I don't need to rhapsodize here, you boys all know what I mean. There are fewer King Crimson fans than there are U2 fans, or Rolling Stones fans, so there are going to be fewer women among them in any event. And rock music in general is male-dominated, in terms of playing as well as listening. Is the ratio of male-to-female KC fans really that far off? Anyway, I've been listening to the music since about '77 or '78, when I was 17 or 18. This mirrors the male fan experience of my generation, I imagine. You have to search Really hard to find me in the audience, but I'm there. I don't have the 3-month headache look, I have the 3-month orgasm look. It's one of the benefits of the New Standard Chromosome. (Ooops! Spilled the beans...) Sorry about the bandwidth, Christine Karatnytsky Billy Rose Theatre Collection New York Public Library for the Performing Arts ckaratnytsky at nypl dot org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 16:13:13 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Re: Fripp and ORB I think what the reviewer meant was that Fripp did work with ORB members on the album _FFWD_ (and I guess you could say FFWD is the name of the "group" too: it stands for the members' names: Fripp, F____, W____, and D____. Sorry I don't know the names). Although Fripp certainly may have done work with ORB in the past; but I don't know of it. I know someone very into house music and its subgenres (techno, ambient, tribal, etc.) who just bought a double-CD compilation called "Trance Europe" (or something like that: can't remember the exact name). As it included one song from FFWD, I decided to record the whole thing. Inside the incredibly detailed booklet is a two- or three-page blurb on Fripp and his work with Crimson (but the writer gets some of the information wrong). If interested, you'll probably find this compilation in either the import section or the ambient/techno section of any good music store. ------------------------------ From: E#KIRKD at ccmail dot ceco dot com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 15:01:27 CST Subject: Web Pages - Reviews Fellow ETers, Work on the new ET web pages continues, and it is time for me to ask for more help from the entire ET community. As part of the new pages, we will have pages covering each King Crimson release, with personnel and track info, courtesy of John Relph's discography, lyrics and reviews. We may also include tabs that I can pluck from past digests. But what this post is about are the reviews. Although I could also pluck relevant reviews by readers from past digests, I'd have to clean them up for the purpose of these pages. So what I'm looking for are reviews, submitted by ET readers, for EVERY track on EVERY album (not collections, or box sets or live albums) that I can include on these pages. For the other stuff (collections, box sets, live albums, singles, videos) I'd like to get reviews that cover the whole thing only. The reviews should be a short paragraph (about as long as this one, max) with YOUR impressions of the track/release. These reviews will give these pages the ET flavor that you get in the digests, so I don't care if the reviews are negative or positive (although I will want to have a positive review for each negative one I use). If you wish you can address differences between reissues or re-masters. So here's a chance for you to listen to some of those older records once again (like you really needed an excuse). You can send in reviews for as many as you like. I will have to pick one or two to use if I get too many for the same track/release, so don't ignore the more obscure ones. Use the following format when you mail them to me: Your Name: Email: Track: (blank if for entire release) Release: Review: There's a lot to cover, and whatever doesn't get reviewed we'll try to fill over time (visitors of the pages will be encouraged to send in reviews to fill any gaps). So there is no deadline on this request, but whatever gets in sooner will be considered over what comes in later. Once the pages are up you'll be able to see for yourself what's left to review. Hope to hear from you soon! Dan DanKirkd at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 19:01:15 -0500 From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Subject: re: ET Post about FFWD on Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:33:21 -0500 (EST), leslabb at postoffice dot ptd dot net (Les Labbauf) wrote >In ET 258 Andy Basire posted a review from a British Music Mag concerning THRAK > >>> But what care we for the opinions of a speed-addled punk parody? >>> Even allowing for past work with the Orb on _FFWD_ and The Future > >Does anyone know of the specific song Mr.Fripp contributed to on the above >mentioned ORB CD? I have ORB's LIVE 93(Evil 39) and the song "Little Fluffy >Clouds" on disc 1 contains some guitar work that sounds very Frippy. He is >also mentioned in the guest list printed on the sleeve. > >Les FFWD has Frippertronic soundscapes from the beginning to the end of this CD. Highly recomended! David Beardsley dmb5561719 at aol dot com * * * * * * * * * * * * * IMMP music recordings: * * * * * * * * * * * * * send email for a catalog of this * * * * * * * * * * * * * strange beautiful music. * * * * * * * * * * * * * and coming soon: BINK! music. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 15:33:16 GMT From: bill pannifer Subject: meaning of Larks, Starless... In response to a couple of questions about album titles (and sorry if people already know this), Larks Tongues in Aspic is a bizarre variety of chocolate offered in an early Monty Python sketch (along with Crunchy Frog and various things that explode in your mouth).It's also on one of the LPs. Starless and Bible Black is a Dylan Thomas quote from Under Milk Wood. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 19:18:42 +0000 (GMT) From: "P. Thompson" Subject: Sylvian/Fripp bootleg CD A few months ago at a record fair I saw a bootleg CD (could it have been a double CD?) of a Sylvian/Fripp concert. If I remember correctly it was Italian and 'Darshan' was mis-spelt 'Darsham'. Has anybody bought this CD and if so what is the quality like? My experience of bootlegs is that they are generally best left alone as the sound quality is usually low and the price high (this one was 25 pounds sterling). Yes, I know that bootlegging is reprehensible but the prospect of a live version of 'Jean the Birdman' was almost too much to resist. Peter Thompson, Wolfson College, Cambridge. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 22:26:36 -0500 From: tomhowie at nylink dot org Subject: Theory 101... Professor Olivier Mlhomme elucidates... > Everything is getting on my nerve this days. Yeah, really, take this NST > tuning thing for drum, for example. In my opinion, you forget > something that I have been experimenting on How a Drummer Can > Ruin Your Music, whan he (or she) want to be smart and tune is > drum... No. Drum can not tune to NST. Why?. You do not seem to > comprehend that NST is not notes in itself, but interval > relationship between strings with the whole concept of it on > guitar, the way notes fall or fall not under your fingers that > allow you to do things you could not . Oh, you use the *frets*! I thought the relationships between the modal roots would create a consonant bitonality through sostenuto application of the partials! How silly of me.... > If some eh... guy (or lady) > tune his (or her) drum in C, G, D, A etc etc, then if you play > in the key of, let us say C#, (or, in fact, in 6 major scale, > and at least 20 different minor scale, not to mention countless > modes- I found several hundreds of modes that you can not use > anymore) then the drum is OUT OF TUNE. GREAT IMPROVEMENT!!! Really > SMART. Wait a minute, I'm jotting this down... "being in a DIFFERENT KEY is *actually* being OUT OF TUNE". Damn! Where's my DT-10... > I had a few time problems with drummer in bands of mine > who tuned their drums, because, Unless you are T. BOZZIO, and > then, you have every note of the chromatic scale (12) then, > if the music is not in the key of the drum (wich is easy, you > donUt have so many toms to have different tuning avalable) the drummer > is most of time out of tune (again). Hold on, you're going too fast for me... "Bozzio: only drummer on earth allowed to play 12 drums." I'd better sell a couple.... > It sounds horrible. Thanks to the > smart guy who wants to play smartness. Tuning to NST is not > only senseless on a musical point of view to a drummer, but > it also offer to ruin all the music of your band (except if all > the music is played all time long in one only key). Drummers > never stop to amaze me. I've got it! Take the heads *OFF* the drums! Then we won't be tempted to *tune* them! Is the exam essay or muptiple-choice? "That being said..." I think I'll listen to some Bill Bruford's Earthworks now.... Tomas "More Than Gerbil, Less Than Man" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 12:09:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Beck Subject: Islands / Mincer >From recent traffic: > I also have been wondering which cover [of Islands] is original. > Mine is japanese press and the cover is "Starry" cover and > INNER BAG is fold out "Blotchy"(!) > Is it Japanese only format ? > > Jung-Ki Jun I have a copy of Islands (bought second hand about 10 years ago in the UK) which also has the 'Starry' cover with the 'Blotchy' inner sleeve. The inner sleeve is not fold-out, but has a ripped edge which suggests that it once was and has been torn by the previous owner. I had always wondered about this, and I guess your post confirms my theory. > From: John dot P dot Mohan at lawrence dot edu > > What's the story with the end of "The Mincer" on SaBB? It just cuts out as if > the tape had run right off the reel. Is that what actually happened? It's one > of my favourite tracks on the album and I've been wondering if there's a > "complete" version of it somewhere. Please send replies directly to me unless > you feel it's appropriate to post them. > > Thanks, > JP. See also 'One More Red Nightmare' from 'Red'. Another truncated ending just as it reaches the zenith. This is a complete halt, rather than the slowing down/breaking up of 'The Mincer'. On this same subject, I saw (admittedly a long time ago) a discography which didn't mention 'Mincer' as being present on 'SaBB'. Was it wrong, or does it only appear on some pressings ? If I may have a couple more inches of bandwidth, I am looking forward to seeing the 'Soundscapes' gig(s) here in London. I mentioned them to my wife and she said 'I'm not going, I'll go shopping instead'. This was after I had got home and listened to 'Evening Star' (Fripp/Eno), 'Red', and 'Damage' (Sylvian/Fripp) before telling her the good news (!). I (IMhumbleO) think an en-masse ET trip is in order. 'til next time rb London ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:33:50 -0500 (EST) From: Sanjay Krishnaswamy Subject: Guitars in Multiple Tunings To just briefly comment on the thread about bands using both NST and "old-style" tuning simultaneously, I'd like to point out that SOnic Youth (granted, not the most appropriate band for this list) has lugged around any number of guitars in different tunings on tour. _______________________________________________________________________________ Sanjay Krishnaswamy skrishna at opal dot tufts dot edu skrishna at diamond dot tufts dot edu _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 09:34:01 EST From: "Chuck Benz, benz at npss dot enet dot dec dot com 22-Feb-1996 0929" Subject: RE: Fripp music on NPR I wasn't going to ask, but since tj seems to have an in with NPR... The other day, I thought I heard a fraction of LTIA in between stories on NPR, but it was "unplugged" - perhaps not even Fripp playing it. Did I imagine it, or is there something of that nature about ? (And I'm pretty sure it was NOT the brief segment of Fripp warming up before a concert on an unamplified gibson that appears in the TOAPP video - the sound was a normal accoustic guitar). If no one can figure it out, maybe tj can check with his NPR sources. \chuck benz ------------------------------ From: "W. M. Heinrichs" Subject: SaBB album rarity? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 11:28:49 -0500 (EST) Hello, My printing of Starless and Bible Black has the labels backward on the vinyl platter. No, its not written backwards nor upside down, but side A songs are listed on the side containing side B's music. Was this a common occurance in some releases? Thanks, -Bill PS Thanks for your efforts Toby. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 12:25:59 -0500 From: dalane at oxygen dot bbn dot com (Dave Lane) Subject: Re: Lark's Tongue Explication Organization: BBN Domain Corporation ITS!... Next Wave Festival submitted: >Re the Lark's Tongue's in Aspic title and where it came from : >Monty Pythons Flying Circus did a sketch on their original TV season that >was based around a box of chocolates, Lark's Tongues in Aspic was one of the >flavours. This sketch was extremely funny and was broadcast the year before >the KC recording came out. Not exactly. You're apparently remembering the "Crunchy Frog" sketch about the Whizzo Chocolate Company. Here is a transcript -- stolen from http://203.0.168.99/wwwsites/python/sketches/crunchy.htm) -- of the relevant portion of said piece: | Milton: We use choicest juicy chunks of fresh Cornish ram's bladder, | emptied, steamed, flavoured with sesame seeds whipped into a fondue and | garnished with lark's vomit. | | Praline: Lark's vomit? | | Milton: Correct. | | Praline: Well it don't say nothing about that here. | | Milton: Oh yes it does, on the bottom of the box, after monosodium | glutawate. | | Praline: (looking) Well I hardly think this is good enough. I think it | would be more appropriate if the box bore a large red label warning lark's | vomit. | | Milton: Our sales would plummet. Nothing about tongues there. Not that Fripp is unaware or uninfluenced by Python; his piece "Haaden II" from "Exposure" has a backwards sample of Graham Chapman from the Flying Sheep Sketch. (At least the original LP does, I've never heard the CD.) But what the hell do I know? I can't even tell the difference between Whizzo butter and a dead crab. --Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 13:10:09 -0500 (EST) From: Darius Subject: LTIA, THGJ > From: Next Wave Festival > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:17 AEST > Monty Pythons Flying Circus did a sketch on their original TV season that > was based around a box of chocolates, Lark's Tongues in Aspic was one of the > flavours. This sketch was extremely funny and was broadcast the year before > the KC recording came out. With all due respect, I must correct you on this: the flavor was "Crunchy Frog Surprise," and its ingredients, besides a tiny uncooked frog, "lightly killed", included a dash (or some small amount) of "lark's VOMIT", not lark's tongues. Others mentioned in #260 that "lark's tongues in aspic" is a form of "delicacy," and I've never thought the title had any greater significance than that, merely a whimsy of KC's/Fripp's (the CD lists all band members as the composers of pt.1, and of Fripp alone of pt.2). The classical composer Eric Satie once named a work of his "Three Pieces in the Shape of a Pear" simply because someone told him his music had no shape. I think it's okay to look for metaphorical meaning in LTIA's title, but I'd caution against making too much of it; very likely they named it so on a lark. =) > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:18:03 -0600 (CST) > From: Norma Heinisgirde > Subject: Groon/Thela Hun Ginjeet > I was wondering if anybody knew what the spoken words were during 'Groon' > right after the climactic point. Also, does anybody know the words that > Adrian Belew sings in 'Thela Hun Ginjeet?' I know that he sings at least > : ". . .Thela Hun Ginjeet. . . .Deep in the jungle streams. . ." > Also, anyone know what 'Thela Hun Ginjeet' means ? I believe the lyrics run, "Watery maid / Thela Hun Ginjeet / Watery maid / Deep in the jungle streams" -- and I must thank you for that last one, I wasn't sure on that myself. :) DOES 'Thela Hun Ginjeet' mean anything, or is it simply an anagram as others have stated? Also, someone back in #257 or #258 (sorry, don't have the issue or the name of the inquirer anymore) was asking about the "sampled" spoken-word sections in THGJ -- I've always believed that those parts are original to the song, not samples, and that the speaker is Adrian Belew. Can anyone verify that? Thank you for your time Darius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 13:24:44 -0500 From: JRStoat at aol dot com Subject: Lark's Tongues Explanation Re: >>Monty Pythons Flying Circus did a sketch on their original TV season that >>was based around a box of chocolates, Lark's Tongues in Aspic was one of the >>flavours. This sketch was extremely funny and was broadcast the year before >>the KC recording came out. To dispel some of the confusion over the title's origins, Monty Python did not use Lark's Tongues in Aspic as the name of one its confections in that sketch. They did, however, refer to lark's vomit. Specifically: We use choicest juicy chunks of fresh Cornish ram's bladder, emptied, steamed, flavoured with sesame seeds whipped into a fondue and garnished with lark's vomit. Eric ------------------------------ From: "Peter" Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 19:16:07 +0000 Subject: "Guitar as Orchestra" YES! I just got Adrian's "Guitar as Orchestra" disc and it is amazing. I don't have any specific comments on it yet, as it will take a lot of listening to really get it all, just that I really can't wait for the next one, "The Animal Kingdom," which he says in the liner notes will have jungle rhythms and animal noises and god knows what else. What I find really interesting is that Adrian uses the same basic setup as Robert (Roland MIDI controller, digital delays, etc) yet the results of their separate experiments with the equipment yield such different results. Enjoy. Pete "If you have to kill someone, make absolutely sure he isn't well connected first." Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #262 ********************************