From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu Feb 22 16:46:31 1996 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 23:53:34 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #260 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 260, Tuesday, 20 February 1996 Today's Topics: Earliest "Red" sighting? Re: Islands Cover swarm of drones summarization B. Bruford, D. Stewart, J. Berlin Lark's Tongue Explication the Roaches? Fripp at RFH Fripp / Belew : who plays what ? The Mincer Anagrams Groon/Thela Hun Ginjeet RE: Fripp on Arabic album? Guitar Craft events announcement Soundscapes concerts, South Bank, London, UK, 7-10 March 1996 Larks' TOngues In Aspic CGT / NST Weekend "Larks Tongues...." Debra of Guitar Craft in Muse Fripp at the end of Yes' "Aventure" Larks' Tongues. RE: New Standards john cage LTiA Redux Re: Poll Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #258 KC releases in 96 NST - my 2 pence worth RE: Fripp music on NPR RE: Fripp music on NPR NST (Re: ET#259 post namor at csd dot uwm dot edu) Fripp soundscapes in London Prometheus, GitBox, std and NST DDD vs DAD/Belew encounter/women at KC [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] FROM THE MODERATOR Hi, I had hoped to begin the new Et announcement service with this issue, but the response has been huge, and I haven't yet had time to put things in place. I hope to have it in time for the next issue, though. So if you could bear with me just a *little bit* longer... :-) Thanks Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 19:57:12 GMT From: Russell Whitworth Subject: Earliest "Red" sighting? I've waited a few months for the traffic to die down, but I can wait no longer. Please forgive this self-indulgence; I hope at least some of you will enjoy my extravagent use of your bandwidth. THE BACKGROUND Although I am old enough to have caught King Crimson first time around, I was slow to catch on. I had ITCOTCK and the "BBC In Concert" Amsterdam concert in my cassette collection (as also featured on The Essential KC), but they didn't get played that often. It was Peter Gabriel II, and particularly the solo in White Shadow that suddenly turned me on to Robert Fripp. Exposure appeared next in my collection (still my all-time favourite album), followed by a rapid gathering from the wonderful 2nd-hand record shop in Notting Hill Gate of all things Fripp and KC. It got so bad that on one occasion I deliberately set out to buy a non-Fripp record just to see if I could still do it. I came back with The Flying Lizards' Fourth Wall - and it was only as I was playing it for the first time that I realised there was no escape - there was that Fripp person lurking in the shadows once again! I had seen UK in concert (that's another story), but I kept missing out on the Fripp gigs. This was around the time of the small-scale Frippertronics and League of Gentlemen concerts, and I never seemed to find out about them until too late. Then one day a modest advert in The Sunday Times. "Discipline: Adrian Belew, Bill Bruford, Robert Fripp, Tony Levin". At last the chance of a lifetime... I sent off my money and got my tickets. THE EVENT Her Majesty's Theatre, Haymarket. (I have no record of the date, and my ticket stub cuts off at "Sunda..." Can anyone help me out?) I was being very careful to control my expectations. I'd read the Fripp interviews. I had no idea if he was going to exert his "right to be boring", or quite what he was going to do. Having Bruford in the line-up made me suspect that it wasn't going to be entirely Frippertronics, though. I'd heard of Levin (from Peter Gabriel), but Belew's name didn't mean anything to me at that time. Warm-up band: The Lounge Lizards. Very energetic, and quite impressive really. I remember noticing the interesting use of guitar as a percussion instrument. But diminished now in my memory compared to what was to come... On to the stage came Fripp, Belew, Bruford, Levin. It's hard to remember the set-list after all this time, but I think they opened with "Frame by Frame". I clearly remember hearing that inter-weaving introduction for the very first time, along with an entire audience that was hearing it for the very first time too. Incredible. Instantly every other concert I had been to paled by comparison. Every note was etching itself into my conscious and sub-conscious mind. Normally it is very difficult to enjoy music on first hearing, but this was something entirely different. The impact on me, and everyone else, was almost tangible. There were so many new ideas to take in. The interlocking guitar work, in the style now known as "crafty". This new front-man with the ability to produce beautiful, ugly, and even animal sounds from his guitar. The bald-headed chap with a strange-looking instrument - it must be a Stick - I've heard of it, but never seen it - how on earth was it producing all those sounds? And of course the first hearing of that distinctive Fripp Roland Guitar Synth sound. Even Bruford, previously well-known to me as a "drummer", was suddenly on unfamiliar territory, introducing all sorts of melodic ideas on his new part-electronic kit. All of these elements were new to me - so much to take in all at once! I clearly remember the second number, and this is my reason for posting. This is my claim for the first live performance of "Red". If the opening number had impact, this was the knock-out blow. Those crashing, rising opening chords have never sounded better. All of a sudden, this was a King Crimson concert! I don't know how many others in the audience were expecting it - I certainly wasn't - and I was stunned beyond belief. I remember thinking "how are they going to do the strings?", and then in came the now-familiar Levin version of the middle section. Outstanding. All of the "Discipline" album was there - I do remember one thing - Indiscipline was played with no opportunity for the audience to answer back - we'd never heard it before. (I'm listening to Indiscipline as I write this). The Sheltering Sky also had a tremendous impact on first hearing. Later in the set we had the second KC treat - LTIA Pt.2, of course. Bruford seemed to enjoy the audience's recognition of this one, in particular. And finally (I think) Discipline in all its complexity. I remember cycling home that night in a state of bliss, replaying every number in my head. Months later, I could still "hear" each song even though I'd only heard them once (or twice, for the encore numbers). I've never experienced this before or since - almost total musical recall based on a single listening. Intense? Yes, you could say it was intense. POST-SCRIPT Some months later, still carrying the performance in my head, I came home one evening and turned on the radio. Capital Radio, Alan Freeman (yes, he was on Capital at that time). I turned it on in the middle of a track - Discipline, I think. Note for note as I remembered it in my head, but cleaner. Fantastic - at last "Discipline" had put out an album! I would rush out and buy it the next day. Then on came Fluff's voice: "That's from the new album from King Crimson, called 'Discipline'" "King Crimson"? What does he mean "King Crimson"? You mean they're not called "Discipline"? Yippee!!! I've seen King Crimson live, and I didn't even realise it at the time!!! -- Russell Whitworth "Yes, but what *kind* of dinosaur? That's the problem" - Stewart Whitworth, then aged 4 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 13:35:23 +0900 From: jkjun at ns dot skc dot co dot kr (Jung-Ki Jun) Subject: Re: Islands Cover Alicia wondered: : I have my dad's 1972 vinyl copy of Islands and the cover's completely : different from the regular starry-sky found on all the Islands I've seen, : even in the inner part of YPGT. Mine is all white with greenish, : multicoloured blotches scattered throughout (a bit like the SaBB cover, : actually) with the name of the band and record on the spine and the lyrics : and pictures on the inner sleeve. : : Was this the original cover, with the starry sky used in all reissues or is : mine something of a rarity? IMHO this sleeve is more fitting to this lovely : record than the one currently used. And Art answered; :As far as I know, the "Starry" cover was the original UK (European?) :release, and the "Blotchy" cover was the original American release. I have :no idea why this was done, since neither one of them is particularly :attractive, in my opinion. (Actually, the two covers of "Islands" are :probably my two least favorite KC album covers!). :Anyone know why they decided to change the cover? :--Art I also have been wondering which cover is original. Mine is japanese press and the cover is "Starry" cover and INNER BAG is fold out "Blotchy"(!) Is it Japanese only format ? Jung-Ki Jun [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jay Kress Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 00:30:55 -0500 Subject: swarm of drones summarization apologies for being a few issues behind, in my summarization. i had asked for opinions and info (mostly the former) on swarm of drones. here's what i found: > From: PossProd at aol dot com > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:47:30 -0500 > > SWARM OF DRONES > > Disc 1 > 1 - Rhytm & Noise "Looms" > 2 - Michel Redolfi "Palm Canyon" > 3 - Robert Rich "Buoyant on Motionless Deluge" 4 - > dj Cheb i Sabbah "Haman" 5 - Steve Roach > "Shard I" 6 - Vidna Obmana "Flat Earth" 7 - Insect > Funeral "Calming Sorrow" 8 - Robert Fripp > "2000 II" 9 - Janis Mattox "Soli Deo Gloria" 10 - > Aloof Proof "The Ghost Ship(Excerpt)" > > Disc 2 > 11 - Ned Bouhalassa "Move 1 (Drone Mix)" > 12 - Jeff Greinke "Below" > 13 - X-Ray "Annul" > 14 - Lull "Slow Fall Inward" > 15 - KK Null/James Plotkin "Drowning in Aurora" > 16 - Iso Ambient Orchestra "Melisma" > 17 - Naut Humon "Deliquesce" > 18 - Gregory Lenczycki "Variable State Optical Amplifier" > 19 - Xopher Davidson "lapsed transfer" 20 - Maryanne > Amacher Sound Characters composed for > "SYNAPTIC ISLAND" and > "A STEP INTO IT, IMAGINING 1001 > YEARS" > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:36:41 +0000 > From: asphodel at interport dot net (Erik Gilbert) > ...the Fripp track '2000 II' clocks in at 7.09 minutes. > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 16:26:08 -0500 > From: alan s cohen > ...have Swarm of Drones and love it...was surprised how > consistantly good this CD is...The Fripp piece is just over 7 > minutes, and, true to its title, sounds very much like "2000", > at least at the beginning. Then it goes off into something > else. > From: David_Kirkdorffer at praxisint dot com > Date: 26 Jan 96 15:35:59 EDT > Subject: swarm & throne of Drones info > I don't think there is a specific review of the two "Drones" > albums, but there's ton's of reading at > http://hyperreal.com/ambient/ on various Ambient subjects. you're right, there's not (word searching for "swarm"), you're right, there is using a netnews agent (http://dejanews2.dejanews.com/forms/dnq.html) i found a few other things, but more than i can repost. here are some excerpts: > From: asphodel at interport dot net (erik gilbert) > Date: 1995/10/25 > Whoops ! Syntax alert ! The aforementioned track (2000 II) > on Swarm of Drones is NOT on any other album. It is from the > same live recordings as the 'Argentina' (jay's note: '1999 > Soundscapes Live in Argentina') album. This track IS > exclusive to Swarm of Drones. > From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) > Date: 1995/12/29 > I bought a lot of CDs this year (and got rid of a lot too!), > but here are the best ones, in my opinion, that were > *released* this year: Various: Swarm Of Drones Cool dark > ambient > From: hmgs at access2 dot digex dot net (Hannah M.G. Shapero) > Date: 1996/01/16 > Droning On: THRONE OF DRONES (Part 1) > Segment 1 of 3 > The sounds on these discs are not the kind of thing you listen > to casually... DRONES could be considered "ambient;" it is > described on the CD as "ambient noir," or in their words: > "darkened subterranean sound worlds in transparent > isolation."...THRONE OF DRONES is one CD and SWARM OF DRONES > is a 2-CD set. THRONE has 13 pieces on it, and SWARM has 20, > divided between the 2 CDs. > From: hmgs at access2 dot digex dot net (Hannah M.G. Shapero) > Date: 1996/01/17 > Segment 3 of 4 > This first CD of SWARM, with the compositions by Rich, Sabbah, > and others, and its finely done transitions, is the best set > of both DRONES and SWARM. The second set of SWARM is much more > problematic. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 14 Feb 96 00:48:53 EST From: "Robert C. Parducci" <76206 dot 3036 at compuserve dot com> Subject: B. Bruford, D. Stewart, J. Berlin A few issues back, there were several postings regarding Bill Bruford's book, "When in Doubt, Roll!" The book is excellent. If you are a drummer _and_ able to read music it should be required reading. Bill's commentary regarding the attitudes of the musicians he has worked with is worth the cost of the book itself. Especially valuable for other musicians is Dave Stewart's Score of "Beelzebub". I also recommend Dave Stewart's "Introducing the Dots." It is a primer for aspiring rock and pop musicians, explaining how to read and understand musical notation. It includes Dave Stewart's Scores of compositions with Bruford, National Health and Barbara Gaskin: Hell's Bells; The Collapso; Waiting in The Wings; Borogoves; Tenemos Roads; Sample and Hold; and There is No Reward. In contrast to some of the horror stories offered by ETers in their attempt to contact the personalities behind the music, I received the following response (via Air Mail!) from Dave Stewart after asking to be placed on a mailing list, and posing this question: >Will you be working with any of the musicians from National >Health or Bruford (Bill, Jeff, or Allan) in the future? > >Dear Robert, > > Thanks for letter & kind words . . . sorry for late reply. >I'm not planning any collaborations with my ex-colleagues in NH >& Bruford (apart from drinking assignments), but as we are all >on good terms, I wouldn't rule it out for the future. However, >I will definitely not be wanting to join a band, as I've had it >with group politics! (Two's company . . . . .) > > Will keep you informed of musical developments via Web site >& newsletters; you're now on our mailing list. > >All the best, > >Dave Stewart Please visit Dave Stewart and Barbara Gaskin at: http://www.demon.co.uk/creative/davebarb/ Also a few issues back, mention was made of "a guy named Jeff Berlin." In addition to playing on the four (4) Bruford albums: Feels Good to Me, One of a Kind, Gradually Going Tornado, and The Bruford Tapes; two (2) solo albums: Champion and Pump It!; and guesting on numerous other projects: ABWH, An Evening of Yes Music, Plus; Allan Holdsworth, Road Games; Players; T. Lavitz, Storytime; Patrick Moraz, i; Kazumi Watanabe, The Spice of Life and The Spice of Life Too . . . Jeff also wrote a column for Guitar Player magazine which included transcriptions of his amazing playing on tunes like "5g", "Joe Frazier" and "Dixie". In The New Atavachron Digest(Allan Holdsworth's newsletter) it is reported that Jeff currently has a music school in Clearwater, Florida. Please visit Atavachron/Allan Holdsworth WWW Server at: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/ Robert C. Parducci 76206 dot 3036 at compuserve dot com <>My body feels like a machine <>I know that I've got to be seen -R. Conyers <> <>Please visit Legend: In Our Own Time at: <>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rcp [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Next Wave Festival Subject: Lark's Tongue Explication Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 16:17 AEST Re the Lark's Tongue's in Aspic title and where it came from : Monty Pythons Flying Circus did a sketch on their original TV season that was based around a box of chocolates, Lark's Tongues in Aspic was one of the flavours. This sketch was extremely funny and was broadcast the year before the KC recording came out. Monty Python are as much in the tradition of English eccentrics as are Fripp/Eno/Wyatt/Cutler et al...........it's funny not deep.... OK? nextwave at peg dot apc dot org Next Wave Festival Inc 31 Victoria St Fitzroy 3065 Tel:+61 3 9417 7544 Fax:+61 3 9417 7481 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:17:04 +0100 From: taylor at bio dot uva dot nl (Rod Taylor) Subject: the Roaches? Hi all. Not sure if this has come up here before or not (probably, but what the hell...). I was at a friend's last night, listening to tunes and swilling wine, when his wufe suggested he put on something called the Roaches (1979), a trio of sisters. Well, it's good (if fairly typical) vocal/acoustic stuff, but interesting for its strange vocal harmonies. And also interesting for the fact that it was produced by RF himself (in audio verve?). RF also plays electric guitar on a couple of tracks, as well as what are listed as 'Fripperies' (a precurser to Frippertronics, perhaps?). And, to make it complete, Tony Levin plays bass. We didn't listen to the whole thing, alas (but I'll be getting a copy soon, I imagine :), but it might be worth a listen if you can find a copy anywhere. This copy was an old vinyl one, bought when it first came out. Anyone know if it's still available anywhere? And, with that, I'm off again (lurk mode back on)... rodt [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Brian Thomson Subject: Fripp at RFH Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:51:11 -0000 ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) wrote: >Fripp will be givin FREE soundscape performances at the Queen=20 >Elizabeth Hall, london on the 7th-10th on March! Info courtesy=20 >of The Wire maazine. YES! This looks like the next instalment in the CD series: "Smoke - = Soundscapes Live in London"! I live in London, so if anybody thinks we should get together before or = after the events, probably either Friday 8/3 or Saturday 9/3, let me = know and we can start making plans... I would say Saturday. There's a restaurant / cafe called Archdukes, just behind the Royal = Festival hall, where a few of us got together before the David Sylvian = "Slow Fire" concert last November - very nice, good for either quick = snacks or a full sit-down slap-up... Modern British, French and Italian = cuisine, I believe (with vegan, of course). Your thoughts? Can I suggest private e-mail on this one? Someone's got = to organise something, and if it isn't done in good time, it gets = messy...=20 Brian Thomson EMAP Computing Labs London NW1 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:54:10 GMT From: poisson at club-internet dot fr (Poisson Thomas) Subject: Fripp / Belew : who plays what ? Hi ET-readers, Sorry if this has been discussed already... Can anybody, possibly people having seen KC in concert, tell me which guitar part is played by Fripp and by Belew in the following numbers: Indiscipline (Rythm ? Solo?), Thela Hun Ginjeet (solo 1 at 4:55, solo 2 at 5:40), Sheltering Sky ("trumpet" guitar ? I am quite sure the synth guitar part is Fripp), Dinosaur (basic riff, solo at 4:50), People (funky rythm, solo at 3:50), SSEDD (funky riff at the beginning, wild solos in the middle / end section). Are there overdubs in Thrak and Vrooom Vrooom Coda ? Some people will think these considerations are of no interest compared to the intensity of the music, but I still consider Fripp to be essential to the group, so I'd like to know the extent of his contribution to the 80s and 90s formations. Besides, I read somewhere (was it in ET ?) about an improv CD coming out (soon ?) and a KC participation at various summer festivals in Europe: any more information ? IMO, the tracks on "THRAK" that are setting a new direction for KC are "THRAK" and "SSEDD". The album is cool, but I think the best of the 90s KC has yet to come. Private Mail if all this has already been covered. Thomas Poisson (poisson at club-internet dot fr) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 11:54:26 -0600 (CST) From: John dot P dot Mohan at lawrence dot edu Subject: The Mincer What's the story with the end of "The Mincer" on SaBB? It just cuts out as if the tape had run right off the reel. Is that what actually happened? It's one of my favourite tracks on the album and I've been wondering if there's a "complete" version of it somewhere. Please send replies directly to me unless you feel it's appropriate to post them. Thanks, JP. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 16:05 -0500 (EST) From: MARK dot KEEN at roche dot com Subject: Anagrams Thanks to George Wiles for providing a better explanation to what "Thela Hut Ginjeet" means (Anagram for "Heat in the Jungle") than Fripp provided ("it's about bad falafels"). It's also interesting George referenced Brian Eno's "King's Lead Hat" (Talking Heads) since Brian Eno's name is also an anagram ("One Brain") [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 12:18:03 -0600 (CST) From: Norma Heinisgirde Subject: Groon/Thela Hun Ginjeet I was wondering if anybody knew what the spoken words were during 'Groon' right after the climactic point. Also, does anybody know the words that Adrian Belew sings in 'Thela Hun Ginjeet?' I know that he sings at least : ". . .Thela Hun Ginjeet. . . .Deep in the jungle streams. . ." Also, anyone know what 'Thela Hun Ginjeet' means ? Norma [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: RE: Fripp on Arabic album? Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 10:17:00 EST >From: Bert Rubini >Has anyone out there heard the album "Sidi Mansour" by an artist >named Cheika Rimitti? Fripp plays guitar, and I think that Rimitti sings in >Arabic. I haven't heard it myself but it sounded very interesting and >wanted to know if anyone could give me a review, positive or otherwise. Is >it worth getting a copy? Also, I'm having trouble finding it, any sources? I really think this is a great album. Rimitti is 70 years old and if you like Rai music then you'll like this. Fripp does rip a few times, adds subtle soundscapes in places, and is completely absent othertimes. There are two tunes I completely dig. I believe I purchased mine at a large chain record store (Tower, HMV, Olsons in DC??) so it's out there. If you need the label and numbers please just write me direct. I do like Rai music but have little info in deciding what to buy. Seeing Fripp on it helped me along and it was a wise move. Now if we could just get a little more live Rai music here in the US. tj buy art not cocaine [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 20:22:41 -0500 From: mkopelbe at students dot wisc dot edu (Murray Kopelberg) Subject: Guitar Craft events announcement Guitar Weekends: An Introduction to the New Standard Tuning In response to continuing interest in the New Standard Tuning and the techniques of Guitar Craft, the first 1996 introductory weekends are being announced in the U.S., on both the west and the east coasts. Instructors will include Tony Geballe, as well as members of the California Guitar Trio. The west coast weekend will be near San Bernardino, from 19 to 21 April, and the east coast weekend in the New York area on the weekend of 14 to 16 June. In addition, a third weekend in late August and a Level I Guitar Craft course, both in the New York area, are planned. The introductory weekends are open to all levels of experience, even none at all, and may be used as preparation for the Level I. The weekends are also available for those who simply wish to explore the New Standard Tuning, or for those who are looking for new ways to approach music and the guitar. For more information on these courses, and/or to be included in the Guitar Craft events mailing list, email a response with your email and land mail address, to mkopelbe at students dot wisc dot edu, or for those without email capability, call or write: Murray Kopelberg 340 Potter Street Madison, WI 53715 (608)251-1623 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 10:01 GMT From: psmarta at cix dot compulink dot co dot uk (Peter Smart) Subject: Soundscapes concerts, South Bank, London, UK, 7-10 March 1996 I have just got the March programme for the RFH/QEH. Evidently Fripp will be doing some Soundscapes in the foyer of the Queen Elizabeth Hall (RFH 2) on 4 days as part of a season of events termed 'Now you see it'. Admission is free but I haven't yet been able to get in touch with the box office to find if they're bookable - I suspect not. Looks rather interesting :-) The information from the programme follows: ======================================================== Robert Fripp South Bank Soundscapes Continuous live performance of Fripp's solo guitar work based on combinations of delay, repetition and hazard. Schedule of performances: 7 March, 7-10pm 8 March, 6-8pm 9 March, 1-10pm 10 March, 6-10pm ======================================================== Pete Smart [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:26:47 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Larks' TOngues In Aspic Incidentally, can I just briefly state that if anyone feels the need to sample the culinary delights of larks' tongues in aspic I must urge them not to. It's possibly the most revolting thing I've ever had on a plate! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland : Fax 0131-653-6124 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 18:38:02 -0500 From: PaulyRich at aol dot com Subject: CGT / NST Weekend Hello Toby and ETers, After a short but much needed break following the Crimson tour, the California Guitar Trio is back in action. On Feb. 23rd and 24th, we will be performing at the Guadalupe Church in Santa Fe, New Mexico with special guests Trey Gunn and Bill Janssen (amazing sax player). And then on Feb. 27th we fly to Italy for a two week tour, mostly in the Northern part of Italy. The opening act for this tour will be Karen Atkins (a singer / guitarist from New York City), whom we met on the last New Standard Tuning course. Speaking of New Standard Tuning courses...there will be a New Standard Tuning Weekend course beginning on April 19th in the Los Angeles area. For those who are interested, please contact Debra G. Kahan at: 102711 dot 716 at compuserve dot com or Tel. 916-944-0888. There is another NST courses being planned for June in the New York City area, more details on that later. In brief, a NST weekend is a very basic introduction to the New Standard Tuning for the guitar, which is (from low to high) CGDAEG and is open to all levels of experience. This tuning is currently being used by the California Guitar Trio, Robert Fripp and several other Guitar Craft related groups. This upcoming course in April will be led by the CGT, Tony Geballe and will also feature some Alexander Technique (awarness through movement) work led by a qualified Alexander instructor. There is talk of a Level One Guitar Craft course led by Robert Fripp, possibly next fall in the New York City area. Robert has asked that all those who wish to attend a Level one course, attend at least one NST weekend or study privately with one of the Guitar Craft Instructors or Preparators (Bert Lams, Tony Geballe, Curt Golden, Paul Richards, Hideyo Moriya, Fernando Kabusaki...) as preparation for the course. The Hawaiian Classical Society has invited the CGT and solo twelve string guitarist Tony Geballe to Hawaii for a two week tour beginning in Maui on April 26th. I can't think of any better places to listen to the CGT than Santa Fe, Italy or Hawaii, so get your tickets now...should be lots of fun. Take care all, Paul Richards [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 21:44:09 -0500 (EST) From: 52FRAUNFELTE at CUA dot EDU Subject: "Larks Tongues...." Among their excesses, the ancient Romans prepared and consumed dishes made from tongues of songbirds. I have always wanted to find an English translation of Apicius' (a genuinely compulsive-obsessive individual himself) surviving book of Roman cookery and search for the recipe in question. If anyone beats me to it, please post. Paul Fraunfelter 52fraunfelte at cua dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 20:12:34 -0800 From: John Koenig Subject: Debra of Guitar Craft in Muse I love Elephant Talk! For what it's worth, I wanted you to know that I'm featuring an interview with Debra Gavalos-Kahan in the current issue of Muse Magazine Online. Debra is one of the comparatively few women who has undertaken RF's course in Guitar Craft. She currently works for the Guitar Craft organisation arranging the seminars. Perhaps you'll feel like linking to the story, or just lifting it and printing it in ET with a credit to Muse and/or myself, John Koenig. Thanks again for such a great music newsletter! ~John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 00:00:45 -0500 From: Derkland at aol dot com Subject: Fripp at the end of Yes' "Aventure" Am I crazy, or does the very quiet, curvy guitar at the end of Yes' song "Aventure" on the Yes Album sound incredibly like Fripp? It comes during the fade and lasts for only ten seconds or so, but I'd swear that was Fripp on a Yes song. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Larks' Tongues. Date: Thu, 15 Feb 96 22:57:10 PST From: Ed Korczynski I don't know anything about this, so I'm an unbiased referrence source. BUT, I've always thought that the title was a very evocative description, using an example from one sense (taste) to describe the experience of another sense (hearing). Rather than a negative, _yucky_, association, I have only positive associations with the title. In fact, it seems to be a description of the exquisite and the totally sublime. Imagine how rare, expensive, and delicious the taste of the very tongue of the bird with the most beautiful song could be. Beyond goose liver, frog legs, and any of the other random animal parts that humans prize as culinary delights. I've always felt that listening to LTiA parts I, II, or III at a volume just shy of blowing my speakers was utterly beyond compare, and if asked to describe the music I would have to come up with an absurdly extreme metaphor like the title. I find part III particularly profound. Then again, maybe all of this only applies to my private Idaho. -edo -- ***************************************************************************** "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." "Fruit flies like a banana." -Noam Chomsky -Groucho Marx **************************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: donoho at adpo1 dot iaea dot or dot at (Donoho Michael) Organization: International Atomic Energy Agency Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 08:43:45 +0100 Subject: RE: New Standards Re: >Second, on this gibberish about tuning drums to those specific notes (yes I >said gibberish) the important thing to remember is not which particular >frequencies to which you tune your drums, but the fact that you pay enough >attention to tune them *at all*. >There's no particular harmonic secret to the NST, nothing magic or >especially Frippy, just that it facilitates a certain type of playing for a >guitarist. So tuning your drums to these arbitrary six pitches isn't going >to give you some special unity with the spheres in your playing. Go back a re-read the previous posts. You seem have to missed a lot. Nobody suggested trying to tune drums to any sort of guitar tuning and any points you're trying to make have already been made. I'm still trying to figure out how, as you suggest, a drummer should tune their drums without regard to "frequency". You're not a guitar playing by any chance? ;) Mike in Vienna [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 13:10:51 -0600 (CST) From: Z4K42 at ttacs dot ttu dot edu Subject: john cage This has little to do with King Crimson really but I have recently been trying to broaden my musical knowledge. I have been searching for John Cage music, but in my town Nothing exists. I have found two things only. If anyone has cage recordings taht they would like to trade for King Crimson material, I would be very thankful. Scott Arnold [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: mcarton at bancroft dot com Subject: LTiA Redux To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Many appreciative thanks to all who responded to my query re: The Meaning of the Title of LTiA. Those who emailed me directly either mentioned that the title derived from either Brother Jamie Muir or something having to do with an ancient Roman delicacy. I was particularly amused at Jeremy Weissenburger's response in ET 258: >>Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, folks. Would you rather they >>named it "Instrumental #1"? Hmmm. And a Manwich is a meal, I suppose. Whatever. Since I know RF has a thing for names & naming (see his liner notes, "The Essential King Crimson") and since I want to steal the title for a story I am writing, the meaning of the cigar has some potential significance for me. Again, gracious thanks much for the responses, everyone. And thank you especially for speaking in class, Jeremy. Matt Carton [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 18:37:05 +0200 From: Tefkros Symeonides Subject: Re: Poll Greetings ETers! I'm terribly sorry to say this, but I've got some bad news for you. My service provider, LOGOSNET, was doing some changes last weekend (a new connection with a Pipex line or something) and since then I haven't received any mail! This means that the mail was probably lost. Therefore, if anybody sent me a vote between the 11th or 12th and now, if you could please send them again. I apologize to all of you for this inconvenience and the delay in posting the results, but I'm really not to blame! Anyway, I've decided to use the 10 - 5 - 3 points scheme, and if anyone disagrees, please inform me soon. I've also decided to include The Great Deceiver in the acceptable albums, because quite a few people have voted for it. Don't forget! I've got a new address now: tsymeo at zenon dot logos dot cy dot net Apologies once again and best regards, Tefkros Symeonides [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #258 From: lordabay at pipeline dot com (michaeldamianjeter) Hi. I wanted to reply to a few things in the last issue and raise some threads that I have been involved in in the alt.music.yes newsgroup(when are we gonna get a KC newsgroup? Wasn't someone working on a rec.arts thing? What is the status of that effort) Anyway, as far as NPR KC hearings go, the same day issue #258 showed up, they played Sheltering Sky. I have also heard NPR(Morning Edition and ATC) use One Time as bumper music. I am not a DeadHead, as this post is about to show. Alittle background. I did not really begin to listen to Rock until I was eleven, about 1978-79. However, befor this time, I read about the music. I remember reading books like The Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock&Roll and The New Musical Express Encyclopedia of R&R, and reading that the GD were at one point the loudest R&R band in the world, and that they were completely improvisational, they didn't even know the order of their songs, etc. When I first heard them, I was confused, to say the least. I thought about all the attributes that had been given to them(two drummers, all improv, loud) so I listened some more, and realized that the GD were a second rate bluegrass band(I am piece of Southern White Trash, and I know second rate Bluegrass when I hear it). Also, I am from New Orleans, and I know, and even at that time knew, a little about improvisation. Being an "all improv band" is not that much of a challenge if the majority of your tunes are 2/4 shuffles with country changes. But I guess my biggest surprise was to hear, and later see, their two drummers. When I just heard them, I said, "I must not be hearing something. It wouldn't make sense if....no, I must be missing something." Then I saw them on television, and I was flabbergasted: I was right: each drummer is playing the same exact note, the same exact rhythm, the same exact drum or cymbal at the same exact time.(I should mention that this television show, which was on Showtime in 1981 or 2, had Billy Cobham as a guest during what I think was called "Drum Space," and that was VERY interesting. But the main part of the show was, in the drum dept. a phenomenal waste, with the rest of the band not doing much else to impress me). As the present incarnation of KC continues, I assume Improv will play a larger part in their music(didn't Adrian say the next album would be all improv?), but the level of music that they are dealing with is such(polyrhythms, polymeters, polytonalities) that a rote playing of KC music is almost gauranteed to be a more intense musical experience than a totally improv peformance of the GD(I make allowances for the fact that KC might have an off night and the GD might get infused with some energy). In the first era of prog, roughly '69-75, the innovations were primarily melodic and harmonic, reflecting a primarily European mindset rooted in the musics of the Baroque, Classical, and Romantic eras. KC, circa 1981-0n has reflected a mindset rooted firmly in the twentieth century, as opposed to said Baroque, Classical, and Romantic eras. Discipline-era KC explored twentieth century techniques, such as minimalism, and the concepts of World(African gamelean) rhythms. The current lineup is the first rock band I know of to make intelligent use of two trap/set drummers(to paraphrase Bill, "If you must play the same rhythm, the same drum or cymbal, as your partner, by all means, do so. But not at the same time. Play a half beat sooner or a quarter beat later, but never at the same time." Is the current KC all they could be? not in my book. I am a keyboardist who hopes to get a Stick down the road. However, the current music does not allow the individual voices to show through, as the Discipline era did. We could tell what lines Adrian played, What lines Robert played, etc. Trey and Pat ared not dead weight; that is, they are great musicians. But the current music is not showing them in their best light, IMO. On a related note, I was listening to Miles Smiles by the Miles Davis Quintet(Miles, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, and Tony Williams). The mixes on that album are such that instruments, or groups of instruments, can be isolated, i.e., piano and drums on my left speaker, bass and horns on the right; this confuguration changes from song to song). Could such an arrangement, that is, certain instruments on certain channels, work with the current KC? -- michaeldamianjeter There, by the waterside Here, where the lens is wide You&me, By the sea Taken in Tranqulity I am a Camera--St. Trevor of the Horn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 10:31 -0500 (EST) From: Mathias_Amann at gillette dot com Subject: KC releases in 96 Hi, it seems that a great year for KC-fans lies ahead of us. Lots of new releases: Thrak attack (April?) Earthbound (remixed) Earthbound2 (more from that KC-era, a box comparable to "The great deceiver"?) >From Discipline Global Mobile I got the news that another official bootleg is going to come out this year with a live recording of the `69-line-up. If I remember correctly it is the same concert where "Mars" on "Frame by Frame" has been taken from. Has anybody out there more information on those four releases (date of release etc.)? All in all, be prepared and save some money. Sincerely, Dirk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 07:00:00 -0500 From: /G=Keith/S=Smillie/OU=1000LOCT/O=TMGB.UNI/@LANGATE.gb.sprint.com Subject: NST - my 2 pence worth There seems to be a lot of confusion about the NST and what it can do to your life so here's a different way of looking at it. Think of the way a painter arranges colours on a palette. The standard arrangement of colours might be Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet or whatever - the exact order isn't important. What is important is the way in which this layout conditions the painters actions. By having the colours arranged in a certain order, certain ways of mixing the colours are easier than others e.g. mixing Orange and Red will be easier than mixing Orange and Blue. If the palette is arranged differently, say Orange, Blue, Violet etc. and it's called the New Standard Palette what have you got? New colours? No! Faster painting? No! Better painting? No! What you do have is a different way of looking at things. New colour combinations will suggest themselves. Colour combinations which were hard to make with the old palette will be easier with the new and of course things which were easy with the old might be harder with the new. Many of the 'standard' ways of doing things have evolved over the years. When looked at with fresh eyes some standards are just plain stupid. A good example of this is the arrangement of your computer keyboard. The Old Standard Keyboard or 'QWERTY' was developed to make the mechanics of the old typewriters more reliable. In terms of arranging the letters in a sensible way it sucks! However, certain combinations of key strokes are easy with this arrangement and the typewriter didn't jam too much. Over the years there have been many attempts to rearrange the keyboard along different lines. None of them have become standard because of the huge momentum behind the QWERTY arrangement. The New Standard Tuning is an attempt to rearrange the guitarists palette and open up a different way of looking at the fretboard. It is not an arbitrary rearrangement. It is a logical arrangement which gives the fretboard an elegant 'symmetry'. Don't get too hung up on the NST - it's just another tuning. As for being standard - not yet it ain't! NST for drums? Try moving the drums around, use the bass pedal to hit your tom-tom and put the bass drum where the toms go! See what that does to your playing! Keith Unilever Corporate Centre London +44 171 822 5416 keith dot smillie at unigb dot sprint dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mathews, Thomas J." Subject: RE: Fripp music on NPR Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 08:27:00 EST >From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) >it's rather strange, NPR is the last place i'd expect to hear >such material. Don't be surprised Loren. I have a friend who is one of the rotating directors of Weekend All Things Considered. I had 3 extra tickets to last summers DC show and so she along with another NPRer and significant other were there. She told me that KC being in DC was a hot topic for a few at NPR. The other NPRer handed me a backstage pass after the show and told me she liked Belew the best. So I was talking with Belew and noticed her a few steps away and then had the gall to introduce her to Belew as someone who worked for NPR. Belew then reacted with glee that he loved NPR. I suggested he try to do something live in their studios sometime and he liked the idea. But it has yet to pass. My friend played some KC just the other day actually. When I thanked her she was quite proud. So I'll just forward your entry to ET (it's not the first) to her and see if I can kick up enough dust to make something happen. You meanwhile should let NPR know that you appreciate this. tj buy art not cocaine [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 09:20:19 -0500 From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) Subject: RE: Fripp music on NPR Wow! I didn't know NPR was on the inside track regarding KC! That would be cool if they did something live. I will definitley have to voice my appreciation...is there an e-mail address for NPR? well it's goodbye. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: brzrkr at unipress dot com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 09:27:17 EST Subject: NST (Re: ET#259 post namor at csd dot uwm dot edu) In ET#259, Ding Snobsy writes: > I tuned my guitar to the NST and I simply don't understand how it easier > to play scales and chords using it. If anything, it was much harder and > required a lot of movement and stretching simply to play a major scale. > Could someone who understands the NST please explain how it is supposed > to be better? I have recently been experimenting with yet-another-modified-violin-tuning that is different than the NST one (or is that a modified viola-di-gamba tuning?), CGDAAE. This lets me use my existing ST string guages, and retune to ST or open-D or whatever other more "conventional" tuning I might want to use. [Who wants a guitar that is stuck in a specific tuning?] Tuning the high string up to G just feels too tight to me. I am uncomfortable playing this string when tuned so high - it resists playing. Also, having the duplicate string allows all sorts of droning, near-interval (like thirds, seconds) transitions, etc. No joke, it is difficult to play, as I imagine NST is. But there is a remarkable amount of space in 5 frets now, that somehow wasn't quite there when the guitar was tuned in fourths instead of fifths. [I suppose the logical conclusion of this is to tune in tritones!:] And, yes, there is more stretching involved, but it allows for some very interesting combinations. My fingers will get used to it (like they have a choice!). At this point, I am not able to think musically about this tuning - too many years of fourths, I guess. But I am able to think about patterns that sound good together. I have had some success at thinking about tunings of fifths as fingered backwards (in terms of which fingers go on which frets) from tunings of fourths. This because a fifth up is a fourth down, and verse vica. [OK, so that's silliness...deal.] It doesn't translate directly to inverting chord patterns or anything, but it is a useful delusion to help find the right neighborhood for your fingers on a specific string or in a specific neck position. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr at unipress dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:01 UT From: NMD at NEWTON dot NPL dot CO dot UK (Neil Durant) Subject: Fripp soundscapes in London Hi Elephant-talkers! I'm not sure if people are aware of this, but I just spotted an advert in London's "TimeOut" magazine about a serious of Robert Fripp soundscapes concerts, at the Royal Festival Hall, on March 7-10th (unspecified times, so you have to phone up!), and it's free admission!!! Neil Durant nmd at rfo dot npl dot co dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: bullj1 at westatpo dot westat dot com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 10:14:59 EDT Subject: Prometheus, GitBox, std and NST In response to questions from the last post: Prometheus is Steve Ball's group / CD and has Pat M. on drums, I think. Steve is on some Crafty recordings and is part of the Rockslides team. Git Box Rebellion is Nigel Gavin's group / CD based in Australia? New Zealand? Nigel wrote A Conn. Yankee ... Regarding using standard and New Standard Tuning in the same group. I play in both tunings and my bandmate plays in standard tuning. He has been very good-natured about taking the things I write in NST and translating them for standard tuning. If you're picky about the tone produced on a specific string at a specific fret, then it loses something in the translation. Otherwise, it increases the possibilities. For myself, multiple people playing in time with each other is more of an obstacle than multiple tunings. Although I don't enjoy hauling multiple guitars around. Joan Bull bullj1 at westat dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 10:29:21 -0500 (EST) From: "M. S. AtKisson" Subject: DDD vs DAD/Belew encounter/women at KC A few comments on a few posts: > From: ncorkind at ozemail dot com dot au (Neil corkindale) In reference to your comments on the sound of B'boom, I'm reminded of the time we had a listening party at a friend's house. His stereo (I would bet) is even more amazing than yours. When we listened to the (then) latest Gabriel album, it sounded flat, flat, flat. Turned out that the difference between that disc and the ones where you could hear depth and position was that the Gabriel disc was D-D-D. No analog steps were included in the recording/mixing process. It's my understanding that B'boom came right off a digital board tape. > From: ncorkind at ozemail dot com dot au (Neil corkindale) > Subject: Meeting The Stars I'd like to add into the thread my brief encounter with Belew. This was when he was out promoting Here and did an in-store at Strawberries. I got to tell him about the person who first turned me on to Belew, the Man Who Speaks No Language Well. The Man was born in Quebec, to a German-speaking mother and French speaking father. At the age of six they moved to the Flemish speaking portion of Belgium. At the age of twelve they moved to Ft. Meyers, Florida. To top it all off, he has a slight speech impediment, so no matter which language he's speaking, he has an unplace-able accent. We were housemates as undergraduates. One day I came home to some interesting music on the stereo. "What is this?" "Oh!" he replied. "This is Adrian Belew, and he is the most wonderful guitar player, ever. Let me play you this song. It has a wonderful title: Big Eclectic Hat!" Turns out he was imagining some combination of a Bishop's mitre, with a bowler brim and a baseball cap's bill. I think Belew found this amusing. At least he was obliging, and signed my right Doc. > From: Buck_Mahoney at kfn dot org (Buck Mahoney) At the Boston KC show there were certainly more men than women, and many of the women there looked like 'dates'. The one in front of me made her beau leave during the first encore, and gave dirty looks in response to my unchecked vocalizations of appreciation. These comprised mostly speaking volume 'oh, yeah's during songs, and standing howls (I can't wistle) between songs. Even these stopped when my husband reminded me that I had a recording date the next day. So, yeah. The girl quotient was low in Boston. Peg. Dept. Neuroscience, Tufts U. Sch. Med., Chinatown, Boston, USA [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]