From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu Feb 22 17:07:24 1996 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 20:42:37 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #259 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 259, Monday, 19 February 1996 Today's Topics: Re: Fripp guitar effects Trey Gunn interview Cheika Rimitti / Sidi Mansour Crimson in the magazines Production of Vroom and Thrak Meeting The Stars The Dead NST and Centipede ET Post Computer Question Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #258 H.E.L.P. ??? Rimitti and System 7 (777) re: Fripp guitar effects re:Value of Centipede LP Tuned Drums? Drum Stuff (AGAIN!)... Fripp music on NPR Where is Earthbound Elephant Talk ET259 various Prometheus Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #258 LTIA: what does it mean? message from Russia (none) The Meaning of "Starless and Bible Black" Psychodots CD for sale NST vs. ST as compositional tool [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:24:00 -0800 From: ghobish at tscan dot com (Gary Hobish) Subject: Re: Fripp guitar effects > >I remember Fripp saying something in an interview about using "a >couple of volume pedals" in his setup. What can you do with two (or >more) that you can't do with one? > >Pete You can vary the volume of the original signal, OR the volume of any number of the delays, and depending on what feedback loops you have set up, and where in the loops you put the volume pedals, get a wide range of effects. Of course, this also requires the use of more than one delay box. "He's crazy! They're all crazy! They're all crazy, except for me and you. Sometimes I 'ave me doubts about you." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Mark Cook" Organization: UTA Libraries Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:44:26 CST Subject: Trey Gunn interview The new Bassics (v.5:no.2) magazine with Nathan East on the cover has an interesting interview with Trey Gunn. Mark Cook [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Malcolm Humes Subject: Cheika Rimitti / Sidi Mansour Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:22:22 -0800 (PST) >Has anyone out there heard the album "Sidi Mansour" by an artist >named Cheika Rimitti? Yes, I have this. I like it, but Fripp's role is not very prominent. I think it may actually be a release by Sidi Mansour, or by some Los Angeles based (or at least mostly recorded there) middle eastern artist. I think it's Sidi's music and he invited Rimitti to gues on some vocals. Rimitti is apparently a "godmother" of Algerian Rai, a form of middle eastern pop music. She's pretty old now and was I think coaxed out of retirement to join in on this project. What's particularly curious about this release is that it also features Flea (bassist from the Red Hot Chili Peppers) and East Bay Ray (guitarist from the Dead Kennedys). There aren't track specific credits so it's not clear if Flea, Ray and RF appear on the same cuts - or how this curious combo of musicians ended up on here. Most of the guitar would seem to not be RF or if so it's RF in a not particularly Frippy mode. There are soundscapes washed of sound at some points that clearly are Fripp, and other parts where I'm not sure who's doing what. Overall I find it a bit too slickly produced for my tastes - I like a lot of arabic/middle eastern music but this relies a bit heavily on synths and maybe samples in a way that makes it a bit too clean and poppy for my tastes. Still, I find myself quickly carried away in the groove when I put it on, wishing I had a large bowl of Morroccan hash to lose myself into middle eastern daydreams. in anotehr post, Peter" asks: >I remember Fripp saying something in an interview about using "a >couple of volume pedals" in his setup. What can you do with two (or >more) that you can't do with one? Control more than one sound source? My guess would be that Fripp can use his system to split sounds off into separate channels and then use alternate foot pedals to feed different delay "tracks" back into the mix, fading in and out a variety of loops while using a primary volume pedal to control the guitar volumes. - Malcolm mal at emf dot net P.S. See rec.music.progressive for Gong US tour info if you like Gong too. No Bruford on this tour but it should be fun anyway. :^) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:01:08 -0600 From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (James Hines) Subject: Crimson in the magazines Upon my trip to Tower Records yesterday, I saw Crimson in three current magazines. The first, as was noted in last issue, is in Guitar with a transcriptionto VROOOM (where's Trey in it though??) plus articles about Fripp, Belew, Gunn, and the California Guitar Trio. All are good, but it's esp. nice to see something on the Trio. Plus there's a pic of KC on the front cover-cool stuff. Mag#2 is Bass Frontiers which has an interview with Tony Levin, which is a good interview, but no really new info, basically the same stuff that was in his feature in Bass Player a few months back, just longer. Mag#3 is Bassics (another bass mag) which has an interview with Trey Gunn. It talks in detail about his switching to Warr Guitar from Stick, and also they (him and the interviewer) talk alot about 1000 Years. The interviewer is very knowledgeable with the album and Trey in general. This interview is prob. the best one of the three; very informing. Hope you all check these out if possible. Waiting to have a THRAK aTTack... "Fingers reaching, fingers screeching..." (R. P-J) James "THE MAN" Hines cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:39:14 +1100 (EST) From: ncorkind at ozemail dot com dot au (Neil corkindale) Subject: Production of Vroom and Thrak I was recently re-reading Fripp's liner notes on B'boom, and (from memory) he was saying how the DAT based recording of B'Boom was acceptable for the "bootleg" quality of that album, but not suitable for a studio release. Hi-Fi ia a great love of mine, and I've invested a great deal of money in it. My current system includes comprises some $10,000 worth of Audiolab CD transport, DAC, pre/power amp and Monitor Audio speakers - in short, better than most people's Hi-Fi! And Vroom and Thrak are unlistenable through it! The sound is SHRILL, similar to the very first CD releases. Vroom is the worse of the two, with Thrak a little better. At first I thought it was too many musicians playing in the mid-range (sorry, I'm not a musician) - i.e. two guitars, stick and two drummer's cymbals. For example, the start of "..Sex, Dream" sounds wonderful, becomes shrill when all musicians are playing, and improves considerably during the bridges. But then that proplem is not evident on B'Boom. I wonder if Fripp is listening to "biased" studio monitors, as he did during the Larks recordings? B'boom sounds great, with the expected high standard of Crimson production! Funnily enough, I think the Thrak cover is superb, and the B'boom cover even worse than Earthbound! Can't have everything, can !!! Any comments? Neil Corkindale P.S, I bought an import copy of the Thrak tourbook at Red Eye records here in Sydney. In the notes Fripp mentions that he is re-mastering Earthbound for a release very soon, and that he is working on the other recordings from that tour for an "Earthbound 2" set. Both can be expected in 1996! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:40:35 +1100 (EST) From: ncorkind at ozemail dot com dot au (Neil corkindale) Subject: Meeting The Stars I once stood at the back of the Manchester Apollo (UK) to get Robert =46ripp's autograph. It was (I think) 1977, and Fripp was touring as part of Peter Gabriel's band. The band showed up for the sound check, and getting out of the driver's seat of one of the cars was Fripp. I approached, with a copy of Giles, Giles & Fripp (I thought a signature would add to the value of the LP!).... NC: Robert, Could I have your autograph please? RF: I'm not Robert Fripp NC: Yes you are! RF: No I'm not! NC: Yes you are! RF: No I'm not! NC: Please Robert, I've come a long way for your autograph (lying now, only 8 miles actually) RF: I've come all the way from Winbourne NC: That proves you are Robert Fripp! RF: No I'm not -=7F=7F=7F I'm his brother! During the concert, Fripp sat behind the curtains, off stage. Gabriel introduced him as Dusty Rhoades! Carved in the Stage Door entance to the Manchester Free Trade Hall is "Robert Fripp's a Toad"! (Crimson's first gig in Manchester was 1971). I did, however, get John Wetton and Mel Collins's autographs when they were part of Bryan Ferry's band, also in 1977. I mention this because I happen to love King Crimson's music (especially pre'74), I find Fripp's diaries and notes fascinating, but I don't think Elephant Talk should ever get into the cult of the individual. I always look forward to his music, but I do think Fripp, as a man, is a prat (English version of nerd).=7F=7F=7F=7F Any comments? Neil Corkindale [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 17:44:52 -0500 From: upsetter at cybercom dot net (Art Cohen) Subject: The Dead Mike Goode wrote: : I agree with Bill Matthews mailing re the Grateful Dead. I too have never : understood why they were not considered a 'prog rock' outfit. Well, not many "prog" bands cover Marty Robbins, Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan or Buddy Holly in their sets. One of the Dead's many virtues was an ability to draw from almost any source and assimilate it into their own style, while usually staying (reasonably) faithful to the spirit of the original. Thus, they could (and did) segue easily from the most frightful noise you've ever heard into cowboy ballads a la "El Paso". Think how good they could have been if they'd practiced! But there *are* definite similarities between the GD and KC, and I think it's telling that the Dead are a lot closer in spirit to King Crimson than they are to most of the 70s British art-rock bands. It may not be a coincidence that, as Mike pointed out, very few of the other bands from that era can be considered remotely "progressive" these days. Anyway, we'd probably all best shut up about the Dead before we get the usual load of anti-Dead backlash ("Buncha Hippies", "Burned out drug addicts", "Mindless Noodling" etc. etc.). --Art Boston Ska home page: http://www.profane.com/ska [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:50:36 -0600 (CST) From: Ding Snobsy Subject: NST and Centipede I tuned my guitar to the NST and I simply don't understand how it easier to play scales and chords using it. If anything, it was much harder and required a lot of movement and stretching simply to play a major scale. Could someone who understands the NST please explain how it is supposed to be better? Upon reading the few last issues of Elephant Talk I came across a reference to the Centipede LP. What artist put it out and what type of music is it? Another item of curiosity is the OST. What is the actual tuning for that? Roman P.S. I guess life is easier done than said. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:33:21 -0500 (EST) From: leslabb at postoffice dot ptd dot net (Les Labbauf) Subject: ET Post In ET 258 Andy Basire posted a review from a British Music Mag concerning THRAK >> But what care we for the opinions of a speed-addled punk parody? >> Even allowing for past work with the Orb on _FFWD_ and The Future Does anyone know of the specific song Mr.Fripp contributed to on the above mentioned ORB CD? I have ORB's LIVE 93(Evil 39) and the song "Little Fluffy Clouds" on disc 1 contains some guitar work that sounds very Frippy. He is also mentioned in the guest list printed on the sleeve. Les [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:00:21 -0800 From: DirkBill Subject: Computer Question Greetings, What computer programs would this forum recommend for both appreciation and composition? I own "Jump" by Bowie, and "Headcandy" with music by Eno, but I am at a loss for any good programs for composition/creation. Also,if there are any other good appreciation titles, please share with us. Thanks, DirkBill [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:05:54 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #258 Maybe someone should try to tune their guitar to sound like a drum set, eh? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 01:18:03 -0800 From: "David A. Craig" Subject: H.E.L.P. ??? I was recently reminded of an old rumor i had heard on the subject of possible connections between jimi hendrix and ELP. I was wondering if any of you had any further leads or information to offer on the following interesting rumors. (I enjoy number 3 particularly.) |1. Greg Lake had a meeting with Jimi to discuss H.E.L.P. (Hendrix, Emerson, |Lake, and Palmer), but Mitch Mitchell showed up drunk and spoiled everything. |2. Jimi jammed with The Nice. |3. Jimi liked Greg Lake's voice and bass playing (with King Crimson), and |wanted him to replace Noel Redding. It is possibly best that all information be mailed to me directly; i will then summarize for everyone anything interesting, useful, or merely entertaining. david [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: gvacano at beaver dot mbb dot wesleyan dot edu (Guido Vacano) Subject: Rimitti and System 7 (777) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 07:21:16 -0500 (EST) Hello-- I noticed a post concerning the Rimitti album, Sidi Mansour. Rimitti is not Arabic, but Algerian. She's known (apparently) from Algeria to France, as a performer who elevated Rai to new heights. Rai is "the meditative chant of Bedouin shepherds". So essentially, this album features Bedouin folk rock (and is worth the price of admission for novelty value, if nothing else :-) ). Robert Fripp plays guitars, and Frippertronics. The band also features Flea, East Bay Ray, Bruce and Walter Fowler, and others. Musically, the album is very good, and original. Fripp's presence is clearly evident. The songs tend to be a bit repetitive (it is meditative chant, after all), and the lyrics, of course, are not in English, though translations of a few of them are provided. The production values are very good, as is the packaging. To sum up, this is not a CD that makes it to the player all that often, but I would not willingly part with it. :-) I've heard that RF has played with Steve Hillage's band System 7 (or 777 as it's known in the US). Does anyone know if he's appeared on any of their albums? Thanks, Guido -- The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The Name that can be named is not the eternal Name. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:30:47 -0500 From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Subject: re: Fripp guitar effects "Peter" on Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:11:24 +0000 writes: >I remember Fripp saying something in an interview about using "a >couple of volume pedals" in his setup. What can you do with two (or >more) that you can't do with one? > >Pete To run the whole set up like a foot pedal operated mixer. If you send the effects send through another channel, you'd need another volume control to mix the the effect signal back in the mix with the dry-uneffected signal. You could do this before or after the echo box. Also to layer & mix loops run on multiple machines. When I saw him do the soundscapes here in NYC last year, he was obviously using more then 1 echo. He had two or more of everything. David Beardsley dmb5561719 at aol dot com http://www.synet.net/sonic-boom/labels/immp.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * IMMP music recordings: * * * * * * * * * * * * * send email for a catalog of this * * * * * * * * * * * * * strange beautiful music. * * * * * * * * * * * * * and coming soon: BINK! music. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:30:45 -0500 From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Subject: re:Value of Centipede LP on date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:54:36 -0500, dmandl at panix dot com (David Mandl) writes: >I just bought a copy in good condition (I guess VG+ would be a conservative >rating) for $15. That seemed like a very reasonable price, especially >considering that it's a double LP. I was thrilled to find it. I'd never >seen an actual copy of the record before. > > --Dave. I found a copy for $2 with a slightly water damaged cover. I too had never seen an actual copy of the record before. Lucky me! :) David Beardsley dmb5561719 at aol dot com http://www.synet.net/sonic-boom/labels/immp.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * IMMP music recordings: * * * * * * * * * * * * * send email for a catalog of this * * * * * * * * * * * * * strange beautiful music. * * * * * * * * * * * * * and coming soon: BINK! music. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:48:13 -0500 From: Stuff4Nick at aol dot com Subject: Tuned Drums? Tom, I like to tune my drums to specific pitches. At least as close as possible. This is especially helpful when you have alot of tom toms. It puts you in a more musical frame. Moving from pitched tom to pitched tom does have a musical sound that can be heard in the context of a tune. You can make arpeggios and some very simple chordal sounds, and it will be heard as such. Just imagine if guitarists just slapped on the strings and didn't "tune"up. It would be scarry indeed. Just as a note. I tune my 16, 14 ,12, 10, 8, 6 set of toms to perfect 4ths. Starting from around B - E depending on the room acoustics and age of the heads. Nick M [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:52:11 -0500 From: tomhowie at nylink dot org Subject: Drum Stuff (AGAIN!)... > With all of the talk concerning tuning drums to C-G-D-A-E-G, which for the > guitar has been called the New Standard Tuning, would someone care to > expound on the benefits of doing such a thing deliberately or otherwise > (preferably one of the posters)? > > Tom Lewis > Athens, GA At the risk of sputtering "gibberish" and offending the lower-case "e", I must say that my initial post (which, I assume, started all this blather) was a reaction to a post regarding the mono-tonality of drums as an instrument (remember?... they were lumped in with piano and saxaphone?). My original point was based on that poster's assumption that drums *had* no inter-tonal relationship, either with themselves, or with other instruments. In response to my post, he posted me privately to explain that his point was NOT the CGDAEG notes *themselves* - which, to all intents and purposes, are a *scale* - but how this tuning effects the fingerings, and the relationships between the strings when fingered beyond their "open" state. Which cleared things up immensely, at least for me. However, my original point still stands, at which point I and the mischevious "e" agree: that drums tuned to *any* note are immenently more interesting than tuned to nothing at all (an oxymoron, but I'll let that pass...). That being said, *how* to tune these drums? Obviously, in order to tune to NST, one would need a six-set kit. And, the range is very broad. Let's assume for the sake of the argument that physically tuning to NST *is* possible, and that each note is harmonically pure (that the drum *can* tune and speak). Now, if one is given to hitting a single head and letting that head ring until the sound dissipates before hitting another head, one could make the claim that tuning drums to NST is irrelevant. However, I don't know a drummer who does that. When two heads are struck within a given sonic "moment", many things happen quite aside from those two pitches. Resonant frequencies are produced which effect neighboring instruments. Frequencies collide, which creates other frequencies, sometimes radically different from the ones initially produced. These harmonic relationships are part of the nature of drums that seems to be ignored - at the worst thwarted by "muffling" - by most drummers - in fact by most musicians! Look at the notes themselves: CGDAEG. How do they relate to each other? Never mind how they relate on a fretboard. What are the sonic properties of THESE NOTES? D and E, when played together, are quite dissonent. What chord structures can be achieved by these notes, and how to these notes - in a given chordal striking - relate to other notes not in this "scale"? How do these chords relate to the basic chord structure of the music being played by the group? That was my original point. That drums *can* be played chordally and melodically, and how you tune them *does* have an effect on how you sound in the context of your band. If you still doubt this, tune your drums really low and muffled (like a heavy metal drummer), and try to play quartet jazz. Then tune them really high and ringing (like a jazzer) and try to play heavy metal.... Tomas "More Than Gerbil, Less Than Man" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 23:35:16 -0500 From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) Subject: Fripp music on NPR I have noticed that Fripp music often gets played during little piece intervals on NPR. I have heard parts of Taking the Veil? by Sylvain and Fripp twice as well as asoorted Crimso stuff. it's rather strange, NPR is the last place i'd expect to hear such material. well it's goodbye. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 20:42:41 +0100 From: "Breivik\es, Tor Andre" Subject: Where is Earthbound Hello My name is Tor Andre Breivikaas, and I live in Norway Since my I was 16 i've loved KC and I've got all the albums, but not Earthbound, Where can I get i and is it gettable ? Well I hope you can answere me in this Thanx Tor Andre Breivikaas 7670 SAKHAUG Norway [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Elephant Talk Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 13:35:12 CDT From: Buck_Mahoney at kfn dot org (Buck Mahoney) Organization: Kearney Free-Net Post for Elephan Talk In talking with friends who saw KC this summer, we uncovered a curious observation. I saw KC in Denver in June, one night before a friend saw the band in Portland. In both cases, we noticed that the majority of the audience was male. The females in the audience had that "I'm about to have a 3-month headache" look on their faces. Does KC have a limited female appeal or, is June a bad month to take women to concerts? Another friend, who saw KC in Atlanta in November, was warned to watch for this phenomena. He noticed no such male domination in the audience and said we were hallucinating. Has anybody else observed similar traits of the nation of King Crimson fans? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 00:08:15 -0500 From: BCDBDAVOS at aol dot com Subject: ET259 In ET258 someone made a comment about how Trey Gunn and Pat Mastelotto do not belong in KC. I strongly disagree about Mastelotto. Remember that little song on THRAK called B’BOOM? That was one of the greatest drum duets I have ever heard, and seeing live was an ever better experience. Pat Mastelotto is a great player and I believe he is a tremendous asset to KC’s current direction. I’m not as sure about Gunn however. It was very apparent to me when I saw KC that he did not make any major contributions. I thought his stuff w/ RFSQ was excellent. I, again, believe that he is a great player, but KC is not for him. Dave R [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin) Subject: various Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:58:16 +0100 (MET) Olivier Mlhomme speaking.... Some opinion about a few things I read in ET these days: First of all, To the guy who was wondering how Belew did this reverse solo sound, the toys employed is a delay that runs backward, you can have it in any music store, it is indeed an Eventide H3000 or 4000, and it cost around $4000 to 5000 (translation of french price, it maybe different in the USA). Should we agree on the term ÒtoyÓ at this price? Everything is getting on my nerve this days. Yeah, really, take this NST tuning thing for drum, for example. In my opinion, you forget something that I have been experimenting on How a Drummer Can Ruin Your Music, whan he (or she) want to be smart and tune is drum... No. Drum can not tune to NST. Why?. You do not seem to comprehend that NST is not notes in itself, but interval relationship between strings with the whole concept of it on guitar, the way notes fall or fall not under your fingers that allow you to do things you could not . If some eh... guy (or lady) tune his (or her) drum in C, G, D, A etc etc, then if you play in the key of, let us say C#, (or, in fact, in 6 major scale, and at least 20 different minor scale, not to mention countless modes- I found several hundreds of modes that you can not use anymore) then the drum is OUT OF TUNE. GREAT IMPROVEMENT!!! Really SMART. I had a few time problems with drummer in bands of mine who tuned their drums, because, Unless you are T. BOZZIO, and then, you have every note of the chromatic scale (12) then, if the music is not in the key of the drum (wich is easy, you donÕt have so many toms to have different tuning avalable) the drummer is most of time out of tune (again). It sounds horrible. Thanks to the smart guy who wants to play smartness. Tuning to NST is not only senseless on a musical point of view to a drummer, but it also offer to ruin all the music of your band (except if all the music is played all time long in one only key). Drummers never stop to amaze me. Continuing with bad mood. I have bought Òtesting to destructionÓ from Cross. It is horrible. Someone told me it sounded like Crimson of the 73-74 era with with the sound of today. Sounded interesting, no? So I went to look after a copy of it. IT IS A JOKE. It share nothing at all with Crimson. Not the smartness of composition. It is full of clich. No one of the musicians on this record is making any musical statement of any interest. The guitar player is a post-shredder that shreds as soon as he can when he can. The keyboard is of no interest most of the time. Even Cross seems to be lacking any inspiration.What I mean, is that they play Politically Correct prog-rock without a single trace of original idea, wich Crimson NEVER did. It is in that way that I consider (IMOO) that has nothing to share with KC, and worst, that you van save your money. Enough. Thanks for supporting my bad mood today. Olivier Malhomme [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 15:38:11 +0100 From: Jacek Czajka Subject: Prometheus Hello, last month i recived new order list from Discipline GM. I found there some unknown ( for me of course ) propositions like Prometheus , Europa String Choir or Gitbox. please send me more informations about these bands. Best regards Jacek Czajka [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Ernesto Schnack Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #258 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 12:18:38 -0500 Hi, I recently started listening to KC through the Great Deciever boxed set and really liked it... can anyone suggest what KC albums I should get? Besides that, I also wanted to know if any of you know about Adrian Belew playing w/ a Mexican band called 'Caifanes'. I know it's possible because Stu Hamm played w/ them once when they played here in Panama.... later PROCRASTINATION: It's a way of life! This message brought to you by the PTP foundation(Proud to Procrastinate). A non- profit organization dedicated to waiting for tomorrow to support procrastination. Ernie ernie at mail dot pananet dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:12:54 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: LTIA: what does it mean? Matthew Carton asked: >Question: I have no idea of the significance of the title of "Lark's > Tongues in Aspic" -- what the hell does it mean? Les Labbauf replied: >I cannot say what Robert Fripp, or KC had in mind when they gave >the the name "Lark's Tongues In Aspic" to their work. However I >take it to mean that the music sounds exactly like what title implies. > Think of the lark, a bird who sings a pretty song, now think of that >bird's tongue in a jelly made from meat gelatin. A pretty nasty >picture, if you get the idea. So the music is not pretty, but harsh and >grinding. Definitely meant to disturb the listener. I reply to the reply: Larks's tongues make beautiful music. Aspic is a preserving medium. Any recording of King Crimson is, IMHO, a preserved piece of beautiful music. What better analogy for their sound than Lark's Tongues in Aspic? James [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Ann Turovski" Organization: Biology Department Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 13:21:55 +5 Subject: message from Russia First of all, my best best wishes to you, to all King Crimson fans (from all other countries) from snowy Ekaterinburg (Russia)! As for me, my name is Cyril Povyshev, I`m 24 years old guy working now in the bank of city (as young economist). Some time ago I wrote to King Crimson fanclub, asking them for kind help to me `cos I really have no absolutely any info about them (and many many other favourite bands) in Russia ! I was toooo happy to get soon one of their recent issue full of very very usefull information about band about hot news from their activities. I must say that these things help me a lot to survive in the country where I can feel music hunger (especially if you`re fan of progrock, artrock from 60s-70s and also from modern time) in almost all kinds of music. I saw your address in the issue and it gave me large interest. The point is I`m very very interested in getting more more infor- mation about our favourite band, discussing, exchanging by ideas, impressions, music, souveniers........ Some time ago I got a chance to be on the InterNet so now we can have correspondence, and I decided to send you a message, perhaps to take part in discussions on the pages of your fanzine about King Crimson (Gentle Giant, many many other bads of the same style) from Russia. My e-mail address is A dot Turovski at usu dot ru it belongs to the teacher of Ural State University where my wife works too (A.Turovski is good friend of my wife), so you can always send messages at that address (just mark "for Cyril") and she`ll give file to me. Well, I`m gonna stop here. Please if you find some free minutes to send a message it would be wonderful to hear from you. With all my best best wishes from Russia, take care and lots of love from Ekaterinburg. Keep rockin` !!! Yours sincerely : Cyril . 07.01.1996 Yours sincerely : Cyril Povyshev . 19.01.1996 Ekaterinburg, Russia. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 12:10:44 -0300 (GRNLNDST) From: Antonio Augusto Gorni ep - pmt 0132 671805 Subject: The Meaning of "Starless and Bible Black" While I was reading in the lattest issues of ET the discussion about the meaning of the expression "Larks Tongues in Aspic", I remembered about other song title that intrigued me since more than ten years ago. It is "Starless and Bible Black". Anyone knows the exact meaning of this expression? What could be a "Black Bible"? [ Private repiles only please -- Toby ] Well, my English knowledge is very poor, so excuse me if the answer is simple! Antonio [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 11:01:00 EST From: "mark allen" Subject: Psychodots CD for sale The 1st CD, simply entitled "The Psychodots" $15.00 includes shipping, US only please e-mail me at "mallen at ets dot org" [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 11:50:16 -0500 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: NST vs. ST as compositional tool Hi all Here's something that I've been wondering about for a long time and really can't be sure how it works. Assuming that RF always uses the NST and Adrian uses the standard tuning, doesn't this make the compositional process extremely difficult? Or is it possible that during the thrashing about of new ideas does RF occasionally use a standard tuning to present ideas to Adrian or visa versa? Or do they just toss ideas out that automatically click into place regardless of translation. I can only guess that this gets easier with time and execution, as evidenced by the marked improvement, IMO, from the band's first swing through the US in the Spring versus the far superior performance in the Fall. But I must imagine that this was very difficult at first. I remember the Guitar Player article during which Adrian was mentioned that RF had some difficulty translating some of the older material into the NST. Cheers, CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. --J.G. Bennett Help us save "Forever Knight"! http://members.aol.com?CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]