From elephant-talk at arastar dot comSun Mar 10 12:32:49 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:30 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #257 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 257, Friday, 2 February 1996 Today's Topics: RE: VROOM Potential Re: New Standard Drums Value of Centipede LP ET Post Why? DC Poll Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #256 Sinfield and Eno CD. Where to find. NST for ears and drums Re: Elephant Talk #256 King Crimson & Descartes Weird Islands cover + silliness THRAK Attack RF and handshake [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Matthews, Bill" Subject: RE: VROOM Potential Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:55:00 -0600 I have resisted posting this opinion for some time due to the distorted perception that most British progressive rock enthusiasts have for the Grateful Dead. I am a British Progressive Rock fan since the early 70's -- Yes, King Crimson, "old" Genesis, Gentle Giant, Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk, etc. However, I also became a "Deadhead" in the mid 70's and haven't turned back while still being a devout follower of progressive Rock. To me, the Dead have explored the ultimate in music experimentation. They just do it on stage with the audience feeding it versus the disciplined environment of the studio which they don't prefer. I did see King Crimson in Berkeley last time around -- incredible show! Has anyone ever recognized the similarities of Fripp's soundscapes to the Dead space jams? They both get you to the same place. In the same vein, the improvisation capabilities KC has potential for could reach the same plateaus as the Dead, Ornett Coleman, Miles Davis, etc. -- they just need to let go. Just on opinion. WLM [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:06:36 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy P Lakatos Subject: Re: New Standard Drums This thing has gotten a bit heated, which isn't what I'd intended. In the original post, there was a brief statement explaining, using a midi guitar to choose the notes of the drums (you wouldn't want to keep the SAME notes for the whole piece, would you? that'd be boring). Since the NST allows certain chords, runs, etc to be easier played, if you used that as a composing techniques for the drums, you'd get the same feel, even if it were a moot point. Now just disciplined composing could do this too, and you could run it with pedals or something. jeremy (Beck Depression Inventory: 35) <*> afn39111 at afn dot org (Internet Hell) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Scott Tatina Subject: Value of Centipede LP Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 13:59:03 -0500 (EST) Anyone have any idea what the Centipede LP goes for. Scott [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 01:50:51 -0500 From: les_labbauf at postoffice dot ptd dot net (Les Labbauf) Subject: ET Post In ET 256 Matthew Carton wanted to know "What The Hell Does It Mean": MC> Question: I have no idea of the significance of the title of "Lark's MC> Tongues in Aspic" -- what the hell does it mean? As I think "Part II" MC> is one the five greatest instrumentals of the rock era (beginning MC> circa. 1947), a little background on its meaning would be quite MC> helpful to me. Matthew; I cannot say what Robert Fripp, or KC had in mind when they gave the the name "Lark's Tongues In Aspic" to their work. However I take it to mean that the music sounds exactly like what title implies. Think of the lark, a bird who sings a pretty song, now think of that bird's tongue in a jelly made from meat gelatin. A pretty nasty picture, if you get the idea. So the music is not pretty, but harsh and grinding. Definitely meant to disturb the listener. Not that disturbing is negative, but used as a motivation to expand one's listening ear. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 21:34:26 -0100 From: mumu2001 at bart dot nl (christian mogul) Subject: Why? A week or so ago I've seen a new KC single entitles Sex Sleep etc. It contains some tunes from the official boot plus two (one well known, I'm bad with titles) and a little Fripp composition (didn't listen to it). My question: is this another "we're only in it for the money" release (about 9 US$) or it precedes a new release? Thanx Chris [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: DC Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:48:17 +0900 From: Masaki Kurokawa Hello. While reading some of the posts, I figured out that unlike here in Japan, albums by David Cross are not easily sought by or even known to people. So I'll tell you what I know and think about them. As reported before, he has released three solo albums, each of them being: MEMOS FROM PURGATORY('89), THE BIG PICTURE('92), TESTING TO DESTRUCTION('94). The first is an instrumental album and features crazy saxophones.The whole album is quite thrilling.Highly recommended.The second - I don't care for it that much.This one's a vocal album, and because of the poor vocal lines and the lack of saxes, it is the least recommended of all.The third, again is a vocal album and features no sax, but it features electric guitars for the first time.The vocal lines are much better and the hard-edge guitars have made the songs very powerful.Also recommended.And now, don't forget the LOW FLYING AIRCRAFT album, released in 1986, which features Cross as well as Keith Tippet.It's exciting.It's quite odd.It's powerful.IT'S GOOD. +-----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ |Masaki KUROKAWA |" You won't find it here | | c/o Keio University,JAPAN| Look another way | |e-mail:s95336mk at sfc dot keio dot ac dot jp | You won't find it here | |http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~s95336mk| So try another day " - John Petrucci| +-----------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 20:14:43 -0200 From: Tefkros Symeonides Subject: Poll To all Elephant Talkers out there, Here's an idea: in order to waste some time on something slightly more interesting than all the usual ET threads, how's about we have a poll about the top 3 KC albums? Just send your votes to me and when I think I've had enough, I'll work out the results and post them to ET. Well? BTW, when you send your votes, PLEASE write "Re: Vote" (EXACTLY like that) in the "subject" space, just to make life easier for me. And if you have any suggestions about how the results should be calculated (e.g. 10 points for no.1, 5 for no.2 and 3 for no.3 or something), just send them along to me as well. Yours truly, Tefkros Symeonides (who has nothing better to do) [ Polls are OK in themselves, I think, but what spoils many lists is the endless arguing about them afterwards. "What? You like BRAIN SALAD SURGERY better than THE BEST OF THE CARPENTERS??!!!" So I propose this: people send their votes direct to Tefkros, who collates and publishes the results to ET. And then, *END OF STORY*! NO FOLLOWUPS to ET -- private email only. I hope this will meet with your approval. -- Toby ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:40:17 -0500 From: Merleh1234 at aol dot com Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #256 Got back last week from the NAMM show in Anaheim, Calif., home of the national association of musical manufacturers. Tony Levin from KC was there, doing some clinics for one of the manufacturers. Went up to him to congratulate him on wonderful performances, like the one I saw in Ft Lauderdale (Sunrise Musical Theater). He barely glanced my way when I spoke and said "yeah thanks," and promptly and rudely turned away from me. I guess Fripp isn't the only one who doesn't adore his fans. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:44:17 -0500 From: jmc at sdr dot utias dot utoronto dot ca (James MacKenzie Crawford) Subject: Sinfield and Eno CD. I saw this really weird CD over the weekend which I thought someone might be able to shed some light on. If people want to reply via personal mail, I can paraphrase things and send it back to ET to reduce traffic. The CD is by Eno and Sinfield, and is some ambient music with Pete narrating a (or some) story(ies). The CD includes some strange dragon type drawings for artwork, as well as short bios for Brian Eno, Pete Sinfield, and two other guys involved in the project. It's from the early '70s. Anyway, I didn't buy it (that's why my descriptions are so sketchy) and am wondering if I should run like hell back to the store and snap it up. Thanks, James Crawford. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:20:06 -0800 From: advent Organization: Advent Systems, Inc. Subject: Where to find. Can you tell me of anywhere I could find King Crimson's "Three of a Pair" CD. I live in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and have tried to locate this CD through Columbia House and BMG, but no hope.. Any info would be helpful. -Donald C. Advent Systems, Inc. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:33:44 -0600 (CST) From: Dixie Gene Ross Subject: NST for ears and drums I agree with Mark Stevens in ET #256 "The NST has more inpact on ergonomics of the player than on the ear of the listener." However the impact on the listener is not slight with the NST . A C major chord played in the NST will sound better because the low C root can be played. The extended range of the guitar will increase the guitarist musical expression. In Guitar Player magazine Jan 86, concerning the NST Fripp states,"It's more effective. It's a more rational system, but it's also better sounding - better for chords, better for single notes." Tuning drums to the NST is possible with six toms ranging in size from very large to very small, tuned from low to high C G D A E G. With that large of a spread tuning to fourths may be better though. I use a chromatic tuner with a condenser microphone for acoustic tuning to tune my drums. To tune a 13 inch tom to A I turn the drum upside down on a carpeted floor or on my stool to deaden the top head. Holding the tuner over the head near the rim I tap the head with my finger about one inch from the rim at each tension rod. This produces a harmonic that I tune to A. I do this around the drum twice because changing the tension at one point effects all the others. When I get an A harmonic at every tension rod I flip and mount the drum to my kit and strike the top head with a stick. Holding the tuner over the drum where a microphone would be placed, I tune the drum until it hits and holds an A. Once the drum is hitting A I'll tweak the tuning a bit to bring out cretin notes or colors within the note. Now a drum tuned like this really sings. In high elevations like Santa Fe or Denver -I even did a few gigs way up in La Paz down in Bolivia- it takes less tension on the drumhead to hit the same note. Because there is no standard tuning for drums the challenge is for the drummer to find what best fits the music at hand. Drummers will tune their drums to fourths or fifths or thirds. I know a drummer who sometimes tunes his middle tom to a minor third. I like using the chromatic tuner because not only are the drums tuned to each other but are tuned to A-440 and the rest of the instruments in the band as well. still Thrak'n Dick Ross [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 29 Jan 96 16:54:16 EST From: WILLIAM CHESTER <101517 dot 3071 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #256 Subject EGCD Release #s For vinyl releases the missing release would be 'Earthbound'. This was a cheapo EG live release feturing the Islands band from 1972. I think Fripp insisted on its deletion and it never made it to CD. Perhaps EG kept the CD number free ? PS. Lizard predates Islands Bill Chester [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:59:53 +0700 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: King Crimson & Descartes mpatek at haverford dot edu (Michael Patek) wrote: >While reading Descartes' "Meditations on First Philosophy" recently I was >surprised to find a familiar name. In his First Meditation, Descartes supposes >the existance of an evil creator who "has bent all his efforts on >deceiving >me." >At the end of the twelfth paragraph, the philosopher makes a final resolution: >"... I shall take great care not to accept any falsity among my beliefs and >shall prepare my mind so well for all the ruses of this Great Deceiver that, >however powerful and artful he may be, he will never be able to mislead me in >anything." Very interesting, especially since I believe one of Descartes' books is entitled "I Advance Masked"! James [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:59:28 -0600 (CST) From: Alicia Sepulveda Subject: Weird Islands cover + silliness I have my dad's 1972 vinyl copy of Islands and the cover's completely different from the regular starry-sky found on all the Islands I've seen, even in the inner part of YPGT. Mine is all white with greenish, multicoloured blotches scattered throughout (a bit like the SaBB cover, actually) with the name of the band and record on the spine and the lyrics and pictures on the inner sleeve. Was this the original cover, with the starry sky used in all reissues or is mine something of a rarity? IMHO this sleeve is more fitting to this lovely record than the one currently used. And the silly question is: What was the NST again? (personal replies, please). I know it's fifths-based and goes from C to G, but I'm afraid I missed the issue where the exact notes were posted. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. Pablo [ NST is (low) C G D A E G (high). And throw in a high 'H' if playing a Guatemalen 7-string Koto. -- Toby ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:35:26 -0600 (CST) From: Alicia Sepulveda Subject: THRAK Attack I know we're gonna get a hundred posts about it on this issue, but it sounds like heaven! (Not so sure about the title though). Double trio Improvs. Wow! I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't heard it from Belew himself. So, anyone know something about it? See ya. Pablo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:57:31 +0900 From: kaori-i at tokyo dot ndu dot ac dot jp (Kaori Ito) Subject: RF and handshake Hi, I read Mr.Gordon Emory Anderson`s mail about RF`s handshake in ET#256. In last Oct,some of my friends met RF in Japan, he shaked their hands with his left hand. And he talked about Jimi Hendrix. If you meet RF,you may talk about his left handshake. Anyway, please excuse my English and mailing. It`s the first time I mail for Netnews. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]