From elephant-talk at arastar dot comFri Jan 26 17:23:11 1996 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:36:59 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #256 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 256, Friday, 26 January 1996 Today's Topics: Tape trades & Dave Jones FOR SALE/TRADE - LoCG '88 RE: Elephant Talk #254 The Roxy-King Crimson connection O'hearn New live "import": Manicured noise Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #255 Composing in the Court of the Crimson King re: Fripp and Numbers, current band and improv Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #254 Crimson in Trivial Pursuit Re: The Red Phantom label Soundscapes boot NST NST ad nausium RF, Jimi, and a handshake. Hard to find One of A Kind David Cross Digressions and Tangents and LTiA good post/online vendors/swarm of drones EGCD release #'s Descartes and the Great Deceiver Elephant-talk digest v95 #255 Crimson Music in Mainstream INTERVIEW: Adrian Belew Thrak Attack?! crimson influences in Meat Puppets??? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:37:23 -0500 From: Andyprog at aol dot com Subject: Tape trades & Dave Jones Ok folks, thought I'd make a quick call for tape trades, anyone who has ANYTHING from '95, PLEASE EMAIL ME, you won't be sorry! ;) And, as for the person who wrote about Dave Jones: >If you are looking for the video Frejus - the Noise try: Dave Jones PO Box >9364 Wyoming MI 49509 USA. He also has some 73-74 KC concerts and 80's TV >videos as well as Eno, Sylvian, etc. Enjoy! Doug Abshire aka ARCHITO > @aol.com >(PS I don't work for Dave Jones and I wish that Fripp & Co would release or >re-release legitimate stuff!). This guy has people posting all over AOL for him to help him make money. I would say to all of you, instead of taking part in a VERY illegal action and purchasing these ripoff videos from him, TRADE for them with someone who has them (many of us do)....it's really rather easy, and it'll avoid you the cost and keep you from getting in legal trouble. Besides, I gave Dave some of his stuff, and he really screwed me over....my point? Many of us have better copies than he does, and Robert would probably rather see someone trade for it than fork over $30 to some idiot you've never met who's making money off Fripp's rightful income. :) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:35:28 -0800 From: JIMBINO/Apple at eworld dot com Subject: FOR SALE/TRADE - LoCG '88 LEAGUE OF CRAFTY GUITARISTS / Get Crafty I c1988 Guitar Craft Services cassette purchased at RF/LoCG concert, San Francisco 1989 Recorded during and in preparation for performance Wessex, England Oct. '88. LoCG represented by: Steve Ball Ralph Gorga Hideyo Moriya Aileen Bath Trey Gunn John Novak Tobin Buttram Dean Jensen Betina Nunez Jon Diaz Steve Jolemore Hernan Nunez Deborah Gavalas Arch Jones Reinaldo Perez Tony Geballe Bert Lams Paul Richards Claude Gillet Kent Laursen Martin Schwutke Curt Golden Victor McSurely John Sinks Dion Stewart Michael Tedesco 16 tracks, including Bicycling to Afghanistan, Intergalactic Boogie Express; 5 written by Fripp, 1 by Gunn, 2 by Lams. For sale for cost $8.00 U.S. + postage, or trade for soemthing cool. Please e-mail me directly; thanks all... Jim Bricker [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: donoho at adpo1 dot iaea dot or dot at (Donoho Michael) Organization: International Atomic Energy Agency Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 18:57:19 +0100 Subject: RE: Elephant Talk #254 >> >>And now I wonder, tuning your drums to the New Standard Tuning >>would be really keen. >Not quite sure I follow you on that... Drums are fundamentally a >single-note instrument, like the piano or saxophone. The "chord shapes" of >guitar...>>snip<< The =concept= of New Standard Tuning for drums works very nicely, thank you. Any drummer who has still has his or her hearing relatively intact (and with any sense of decency) will tune the beasts before a performance. In my time I used various tunings with much personal satisfaction. When I first started drumming, I was not very good; I just copied everything and really couldn't hear the drum tones; I was lazy and untrained. Eventually I outgrew this attitude and began to approach the kit as a "real muscial instrument". And that's when playing became more joy and less work. Chords are created by two or more harmonic waves interacting with each other. The source is not important. Regarding drum chords, their complexity is obviously a direct consequence of the number of drums one can hit simultaneously. On a standard drum kit with a standard drummer, four tones can be generated, creating one chord. With the advent of MIDI, more complex drum chords can be created. Try it sometime. Finally, the above quoted statement implies that one cannot play chords on the piano. This is just wrong. Mike [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:55:16 -0500 From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: The Roxy-King Crimson connection The following is an excerpt from an article by Rob Chapman, published in Mojo Magazine, issue 25, December 1995. All rights reserved, yadda yadda, etc. The article gives an early history of Roxy Music and points to some of the connections between that band and King Crimson: Recorded in March 1972, a month after Manzanera joined, "Roxy Music" was produced by King Crimson lyricist Pete Sinfield. "EG played me these tapes," recalls the man who would go on to write the lyrics for Celine Dion's Think Twice. "They weren't actually that brilliant musically but the ideas and the wit were superb. They were delightfully bold, almost in the camp sense of bold. There was this wondrous amalgam of soully things and rock things, all bound together with something new and relevant. It was suggested that I might want to produce their album. Bizarrely enough, Ferry had auditioned to join Crimson as vocalist in 1970. An odd choice, perhaps? "Not really," says Ferry. "I'd heard their first album and thought it was very interesting. It was perhaps too English for my taste but there was a kind of adventure about it. Some of the guitar sounds were really great, and I was into soundscapes. I didn't just want to do blue-eyed soul. But I couldn't play bass." "This was when we desperately needed a singer after Greg Lake had departed for ELP," confirms Sinfield. "Robert Fripp and I quite liked Bryan. We didn't think he was a great singer - he had this rather strained vibrato - but we liked his bashful attitude. Probably good for him and us that he didn't join. God knows what King Crimson would have become!" "Fripp's threatened that he's still got the audition tape some- where," remarks David Enthoven. So there you have it, my fellow Crimheads. Ferry DID audition for the band and tapes may still exist in Fripp's basement of the audition. Wouldn't they be something to hear? Ready to listen if you will release them, Robert. Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin) Subject: O'hearn Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 11:03:38 +0100 (MET) Since I've been receiving a lot of posting on the subject, let me tell taht this O'Hearn album I told you about is called "Trust". It comes from Deep Cave Records that I beleive to be O'Hearn's own label. You can find on tis CD, D. Torn (2 tracks), Warren Cuccurullo (one), Terry Bozzio (one), and a few other people. It is classical "O'Hearn music", with delicate ambiant touch, lush melodies. It shares nothing with polytown for those who asked me to compare the two. For the others that were asking who he is: the guy used to play, few years from here, in an other guy's band who's is usually called Frank Zappa. Then he went to form Missin Persons, some L.A. rock band with Terry Bozzio (oh!) that came from... Frank Zappa's band, Warren Cuccurullo (oh!), coming from Zappa (hum...), Dale Bozzio, coming from you already guessed it, and a keybordist, I'm sorry I forgot his name. Thanks for listening... "you have to let the music play the human instrument" R. F. Olivier Malhomme ' [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Trent H Blomquist Subject: New live "import": Manicured noise Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 08:52:11 In response to: "Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:33:22 -0500 From: Mark2u at aol dot com Subject: Unknown Disks A few days ago I saw some titles that I am not familiar with. One is a live boot, the others are all David Cross CDs. I'm curious about the sound quality of the boot and the artistic merit of the Cross albums. The live boot was titled "Manicured Noise". The graphics were all re-hash copies of the Thrack album. It think it was recorded in Northern Europe somewhere (I have a graphical memory, but sometimes it's not very focused)." The Manicured noise CD was recorded at the State Theater Mpls, MN 6/16/95. I have the CD and would give the sound quality a "B+". Set List: Frame by frame Dinosaur One time Red Matte Kudesar V'room V'room Sex-Sleep-Eat-Drink-Dream People Stixcks Indiscipline Talking Drum Lark's tongue in aspic V'room Walking on air Time: 74'30" The sound quality is not as good as the B'Boom Official Live KC boot but it is still a very listenable recording of an excellent performance. It sounds like it was recorded in the audience via a DAT player, it is a little heavy on the bass and there is some "noise/static/interference" on a couple of tracks. There is also a particularly loud fan who obviously sat near the recorder. I should add that my rating of the CD may be a little biased as this was my first KC show and I was in the 7th row center audience (yes I know I'm bragging). Hope this helps. Trent. Trent. "You can put out a fire, but you can't put out the flame" PG [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 11:01:10 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Austen Wallace Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #255 This question has probably been answered before, but does anyone know what those samples in Thela Hun Ginjeet are from? [ Private replies to Richard, please, not ET ] Just curious... Richard. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jeremy Lakatos Subject: Composing in the Court of the Crimson King Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 11:06:09 -0500 (EST) and the Coconuts.... King Crimson and Robert Fripp (is the 'and' redundant?) have brought to rock music a lot of new songwriting concepts in the 90s (and also the 80s .. I'm not neglecting the first lineups without thinking about it). A lot of it, I admit, is based on the instrumentation--dual drummers (not new, but still very uncommon) and Trey Gunn's incredible mastery over the touchstyle guitar (an uncommon instrument). Also, there's the Incredible Soundscapes Machine. There's the Guitar Craft and writing for that, and there's the eternal mobile rotating melodies of the 80s. All in one band. It's rich. Impresses me the most about the band. And I feel that there is a lot here to help an artist write interesting music. Anyone want to start a discussion about how they do it? I think it'd be a very interesting thread. And who knows, some of the ETers may get a few great ideas out of it (though not me, as I have no band and no tools save simple computer and flute, I'd still find it quite cool). jeremy <*> afn39111 at afn dot org (.deppart m'i, em pleh) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Terrance L Kalka II Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 12:33:40 EST Subject: re: Fripp and Numbers, current band and improv RF is indeed quite number-concious. I can think of two instances that prove this. 1. He has stated that he likes to make three year commitments. He took three years off from the music industry to participate in J.G. Bennett's school. The 80's Crimson lasted three years. He feels (or felt at the time of the interview I read) that three years is time frame that he has a good feel for. 2. He believes that a seven year cycle occurs in the music world. Every seven years, something mind-boggling occurs. I don't remember what years exactly outlined cycle, but I think 1998 is the next big one. Also, from the Pink Floyd song "Chapter 24": A movement is accomplished in six stages And the seven brings return This is a reference to I Ching, the Chinese book of changes. The concept of that cycle is quite relevant to that philosophy. Finally, there is the issue of improvization in King Crimson. THRAK, as far as I can tell, is mostly improvisation. The band plays the "tune", then they go nuts. Between the 4 offically released versions, and the two I've seen live, the middle section is always quite different. Also, they improvise in a way similar to the 1973/4 band: from night to night, the songs can be played quite differently. peace Terry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 13:41:21 EST From: whatthat at nando dot net Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #254 > From: Jeremy Lakatos > Subject: Re: New Standard Shoes Drum thoughts > Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:03:36 -0500 (EST) > > Oh, and a former friend and I had a discussion once: every rock band > has drums, and eliminating them would be quite a trick. I, however, > was pro-drum. I came upon this idea--what if the drums played > non-drum samples (electronic, of course)? Then you'd have the drum > flavor but a tonal sound. Daevid Allen's Euterpe had no drummer, and neither did Hugo Largo. "Book of Saturday" surprised me by including no drums, but I'd say it was a really rhythmic, busy song. What would be a trick would be to play a heavy number with no percussion other than keys at all. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 17:32:52 -0600 (CST) From: John dot P dot Mohan at lawrence dot edu Subject: Crimson in Trivial Pursuit This may be the most trivial topic posted to this issue of ET, but I couldn't resist. I was recently playing a "Baby Boomer Edition" game of Trivial Pursuit (questions focus on the 1950's-1980's) and on one card in the music category was the question "What group released the 1969 album _In The Court Of The Crimson King_, hailed as a masterpiece?" I would hope you all know the answer. JP. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 18:52:23 EST From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) Subject: Re: The Red Phantom label Just a small addition, now that I'm home where I can look over my CD collection. I wrote: >stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin) writes: >> >>I was recorded during November 1992, but where remains >>a complete mystery. As far as i know, there was 3 others "chapter", but >>none can be ordered anymore. > >Where did you get this one? Sometimes you can find a dealer that is >willing to order from a bootlegger. If you can't find one, you're going >to have to go to lots of record shows in the hopes that the ones you >want are found somewhere. The back of one Red Phantom album (Say Yes) has the following contact information: RED PHANTOM worldwide distribution by M.G.R. Records S.r.l. - Via Lamarmora 33/3 - 16035 Rapallo (GE) Italy - Fax: 39-(0)2-57402890. If you have catalog numbers, you can probably write or fax them and ask for pricing information and maybe a catalog. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:35:13 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael L. Smith" Subject: Soundscapes boot I believe I have a copy of this concert, only the version I have is called "Robert Fripp: Kan-non Power." It has the same set list as the _Soundscapes_ boot. Recording information given is TFM Hall, Tokyo Japan, November 11, 1992. It's an excellent recording. Label is Pluto Records, Italy (PLR CD 9324). I bought it at Tower Records in Mexico City, and have never seen a copy in the US. If you ever find yourself in the Zona Rosa in MC, check out the music shops--great stuff! Regards, Mike in Syracuse mlsmit02 at syr dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:01:55 -0700 (MST) From: ecerb at indra dot com (Elaine C. Erb) Subject: NST In Elephant-talk digest v95 #254 "John R. Nash" wrote: >snip< Drums are fundamentally a single-note instrument, like the piano or >saxophone. The "chord shapes" of guitar are a result of the use of strings >and frets, and being able to find the same note in different places on the >fretboard. You could no more tune drums to NST than you could a piano. > Well actually you CAN use NST on a piano. American composer Lou Harrison does a lot of his work using this technique and creating quite different sounds than those to which we are accustomed from a piano. Other composers have altered the sounds of the piano by inserting paper under the strings to give it more resonance as you might hear on an M'bira or thumb piano. A piano is a stringed instrument after all and like a guitar can thus be tuned any way the composer or performer desires. As for drums, it will depend upon which type of drum it is as to whether or not the notes or sound can change. An idiophone is a solid type of percussion instrument which will vary in tone due to size and shape. Wooden blocks, cymbals, and gongs all fall within this group. Membranophones on the other hand do change their sound with the tightening or loosening of the head. Perhaps the best example of this is the African talking drum which changes in tone as the drummer squeezes the drum under his or her arm as it is played thus pulling on the cords to tighten the head. Of course electronic drums can do just about anything you wish!!! I did see Art of Noise perform live with that great trick of sampling in the singers voices to the drum kit and then performing a drum solo based on the human voice! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:41:30 -0500 From: Mark2u at aol dot com Subject: NST ad nausium In ET 255 this "New Standard Tuning" discussion continues: >From: charly at hal dot com (Charly Rhoades) >Subject: Re: Chrodal Drums >> >And now I wonder, tuning your drums to the New Standard Tuning >> >would be really keen. >> >> Not quite sure I follow you on that... Drums are fundamentally a >> single-note instrument, like the piano or saxophone. The "chord shapes" of >> guitar are a result of the use of strings and frets, and being able to find >> the same note in different places on the fretboard. You could no more tune >> drums to NST than you could a piano. >You seem to ignore tympani, which are tuned to a dominant note but can be de/re-tuned on the fly (albeit within a small range). >Electric keyboards, too, have tone-bending capabilities too, again within a rather small range as opposed to string instruments (especially fretless ones). This discussion reflects a fundemental misunderstanding of the NST. NST is applicable only to the guitar family (although I suppose it could be extended to other stringed instruments like the violin family, but they already have a standard tuning that serves them quite well). NST is not tuning in the sense of "just intonation", "equal temperment", or "microtonal" tuning. It is *not* a method of establishing a scale. It is a method of setting the reference interval among a set of monophonic tone generators (e.g. a set of six strings), each capable of playing a chromatic scale, and capalbe of of being played in constelations to form chords and/or arpegios. There are many different ways of tuning the strings of a guitar. The effect is the voicing of the chords (or arpegios). Open tunings are fairly common (especially among Windam Hill artists) and often yield a very warm sound. Open tunings are created by tuning the guitar so that when no strings are fingered, the strings play a given chord, usually a major or minor. Open tunings are often used with slide guitar. The common guitar tuning standard is built primarily on thirds (one minor, the rest major). The NST calls for different intervals, and covers a broader spectrum of notes. Then later in the same ET we have a very long post which reflects the same misunderstanding. I'll add one more bit in response to this unwieldy post. >From: tomhowie at nylink dot org >Subject: Drums: Mono-Tonality Redux >Tell me what the NST is - what are the >notes from low string to high string - and I'll tune my drums to it! >Guarenteed! (I like my kit tuned chromatically anyway, so tuning to >another series of notes is no big deal.) This would be the equivalent of the open position of the guitar, that is no strings being fingered (roughly equivalent to a single fixed chord). THIS IS NOT WHY THE nst WAS DEVELOPED nor how it is used! There is nothing special about the those six notes or even the intervals between them. The only significance in these six reference notes (one for each string) is the way that they configure the strings to facilitate the left hand to run scales and create chords. The NST has more impact on ergonomics of the player than on the ear of the listener. The way that it does impact the ear of the listener is if the new configuration helps the player to explore scales and chord voicings that she might not have ever encountered before. If you want to explore applying the creative impetus behind NST to the drums you'd be better off rearranging the configuration of your kit. What placement of the drums could better facilitate your own creativity? How does changing the space between the various drums on your kit change the way you approach your playing? Incidently, I realize that drums can be tuned to specific notes, and some can even create slightly different pitches in real time. I think that's great. I love creative application of all instruments. And I love percussion works, particularly the works of John Cage. It's just that NST theory is not relevant as framework for discussing drum innovation. Hope this sheds some light on what appears to be a difficult concept to understand. Mark Stevens [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:41:28 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: RF, Jimi, and a handshake. Peace and Blessings to all you KC listeners. Recently I remembered a story a guy in high school told me back in about 79 or 80 or so, and it reminded me of the whole "Fripp didn't shake my hand" uproar. Apparently, Jimi Hendrix once heard Fripp play, and afterward went up to Fripp to shake his hand.(is this true? Anyone know the complete story?) Apparently, Jimi's right hand was in a cast or something so he said to Fripp-"let me shake your hand with my left hand, its closer to my heart". Years later, this HS-mate of mine saw a small Frippertronics concert and loved it. Afterward, he went up to Fripp and offered his own left hand with the same quote, which Fripp seemed to accept with gladness. Perhaps at some point some drunken fool wanted to prove his macho and nearly crushed Fripp's hand with some powerful grip. In the aftermath, Fripp probably realized that his livlihood depends on the health of his hands, so he probably made the conscious decision not to shake many more strange hands. Such would be a reasonable decision, actually. -Emory. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Steve_Vaughan at ilink dot demon dot co dot uk Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 14:56:15 GMT Subject: Hard to find One of A Kind Hi all, I'm in the process of replacing my vinyl with CDs, and I'm having trouble locating the following : One of a Kind - Bruford Magnetic - Steps Ahead (is Tony Levin on this?) Tribal Tech - Scott Henderson, Gary Willis & Tribal Tech (not KC related I know, but what the heck) If anyone could help I'd appreciate it. Please note I'm London based, so it's not much use to me if Tower Records in NYC have 20 copies of each at $2.50!) Please Email me directly to avoid clogging the list. Thanks in advance, Steve Vaughan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:23:14 -0500 From: Claude Girard Subject: David Cross Here's a short reply to a question about David Cross wherabouts. He just relea- sed a new CD in 1994 titled "Testing to destruction" on "Inside out" records (in Canada). I only read a review of the CD but it was quite positive. The reviewer said that he did not expect something so POWERFULL! There are 4 instrumentals and songs (no he does not sing!) and lots of violin. He said that the sound is reminiscent of KC but also has its own style and that the CD was worth buying. Hope it helps! Claude girard at ireq-sat dot hydro dot qc dot ca [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:18:26 -0500 From: mcarton at bancroft dot com (Matthew Carton) Subject: Digressions and Tangents and LTiA Question: I have no idea of the significance of the title of "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" -- what the hell does it mean? As I think "Part II" is one the five greatest instrumentals of the rock era (beginning circa. 1947), a little background on its meaning would be quite helpful to me. To carry the tangent further on "Fripp and the numbers" from Number 255, I should think that "Sunday All Over the World" in 1991 was the marker for Fripp's re-entrance, as it were, into the "marketplace" -- seven years after the dissolution of the quartet, three years before the reemergence of the double trio. If you consider his work with the League of Crafty Guitarists and David Sylvian (specifically "Gone to Earth" in 87) during this period in the same instance as his work with Bowie and the League of Gents & Gabriel from 74-81...then MAYBE there may be some interesting parallels that could be drawn... But, then again, maybe it's all bullshit. Who knows? I just like the music. Thanks much. Matt Carton mcarton at bancroft dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jay Kress Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:35:39 -0500 Subject: good post/online vendors/swarm of drones congratulations to david kirkdorffer for his post of 16-Jan to ET 255, concerning the availability and source of the roy harper cd. now *that's* the kind of post that makes ET valuable to me. anyone with an out-of-the-way online vendor url/address, please send it to me. i'd like anyone with an opinion on the double-disc ambient compilation "swarm of drones", available via possible productions, to forward it to me. i'll summarize any responses in a future post. i'd also like to know the duration of the fripp track "2000 ii". [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 21:26:07 -0500 From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott) Subject: EGCD release #'s I was looking at the EG catalog numbers on the spines of my KC CD's the other day and i noticed that between Lzard and Islands the numbers jump. So there is a missing link in EG releases. Is this a KC disk that I do not have? I had thought that i had them all: 1 - ItCotCK 2 - ItWoP 3 - Islands 4 -Lizard 5 - LTiA 6 - SaBB 7 - Red 8 - Beat 9 - ToaPP 10 - Discipline 11 - Thrak 12 B'boom These aren't in exact order, but they constitute all of the KC clooection available on CD (to my knowledge). well it's goodbye. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 12:03:52 EST From: mpatek at haverford dot edu (Michael Patek) Subject: Descartes and the Great Deceiver While reading Descartes' "Meditations on First Philosophy" recently I was surprised to find a familiar name. In his First Meditation, Descartes supposes the existance of an evil creator who "has bent all his efforts on deceiving me." At the end of the twelfth paragraph, the philosopher makes a final resolution: "... I shall take great care not to accept any falsity among my beliefs and shall prepare my mind so well for all the ruses of this Great Deceiver that, however powerful and artful he may be, he will never be able to mislead me in anything." This is the first time I've encountered "Great Deceiver" in any literature. It seems plausible that Palmer-James would have some experience with the work of Descartes and Classical philosophers in general. It seems equally possible that the use of the name could be coincidental. I havn't analysed the lyrics for any hints. If anyone has any information I'd appreciate it. -Mike [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 23 Jan 96 11:11:15 EST From: Todd Bernhardt <73364 dot 1601 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #255 >From: les_labbauf at postoffice dot ptd dot net (Les Labbauf) >In ET 254 Jeremy and Adam discussed the following; >>JL> Oh, and a former friend and I had a discussion once: every rock band >>JL> has drums, and eliminating them would be quite a trick. I, however, >>JL> was pro-drum. I came upon this idea--what if the drums played >>JL> non-drum samples (electronic, of course)? Then you'd have the drum >.JL> flavor but a tonal sound. >>AL> This is not a new concept. Have you heard any of Bruford's Earthworks >>AL> albums? >I have an Art Of Noise concert that I taped off MTV, back when they used to >have concerts, that utilized sampled sounds on electronic drums; >The female vocalists had apparently sampled their voices and the drummer had >his electronic pads tied into them. Instead of hearing drum sounds you >heard voices. It made for a wild percussion solo. Actually, I think the first time I heard this concept -- drums triggering electronic sounds -- used was on ELP's Brain Salad Surgery, in Carl Palmer's drum solo in the middle of "Tocatta" (sp?). It sounds a bit corse now, but most of the electronics back then were, afterall. Of course, God -- ahem, I mean Bill B. -- took the concept to its beautiful extreme in Earthworks and with some other artists, notably David Torn and Tony Levin. I saw him play a solo on tour with Torn that brought tears to my eyes ... no drum or percussion samples at all, just pure melody. >From: "Gerard T. Yurchison" <103457 dot 2060 at compuserve dot com> >But can anyone recommend one Earthwork recording (Dig, the live one, or ??) that would be a >good introduction to the band? My favorites are Earthworks (the first) and All Heaven Broke Loose. If you're REALLY only going to buy one, tho, you'll probably want Stamping Ground (the live one). To Tomas, who defended melodic drums -- Yeah! I agree with everything you said about acoustic drums (tho watch out for the NST shit -- try to find the sympathetic frequency of your shell and tune the drum close to that for optimal sound), and if you add the concept of pads or triggers attached to a sound source, the analogy is complete -- melody, chords and percussion all in one! Finally, the talk in #255 about a good-quality Yes boot made me wonder -- does anyone out there have a good-quality of recording of BB with Yes ('68-'72, of course) or with Genesis (1975, I think)? The only tastes I've gotten of him live with those bands are, respectively, Yessongs and Seconds Out, and I want more! Please contact me privately if you can help. Thanks. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:05:33 -0500 From: JimKlo at aol dot com Subject: Crimson Music in Mainstream Quoting Robert D. Hickson from last ET: "Maybe Dinosaur could launch Windows 97!" Funny thing. Shortly after the 11/30 concert, I sampled the five chord intro to "Dinosaur" to a .WAV file on my PC, and use it as one of my Windows startup sounds ! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:54:20 -0500 From: Kurt Kleinschmidt Subject: INTERVIEW: Adrian Belew The following interview appeared in issue 384, January 19, 1996 of Everybody's News, "Greater Cincinnati's First Alternative News, Arts & Entertainment Weekly". It appears in ET with the generous permission of the publisher, Goodwin Communications, and of the writer, John Madden. Special thanks to Amy McDonald, Everybody's Music Editor, for working out the details. ************************************************************************ Adrian Belew: Guitar As Orchestra, Drummer, Rhino, Whistle... by John Madden By virtually any standard, Adrian Belew is a living dream come true for most musicians. He is a member of one of the most highly regarded and critically acclaimed bands in the world, King Crimson; he is a solo artist with an enthusiastic and loyal following; he is one of the most sought after session musicians in the business; he has his own record label, Adrian Belew Presents, dedicated to presenting experimental music to discerning audiences; and he recently built a state-of-the-art recording studio in his Nashville home. As a teenager, Adrian Belew lived in Florence, Kentucky where he began his career as the drummer for the Denims, a band that specialized in covers of the Beatles and other British rock bands. Eventually, Belew switched to guitar and for the next decade continued to work with various bands in different cities until Frank Zappa happened to catch him performing in Nashville in the late seventies. Belew so impressed the avant-garde rock composer that Zappa invited him on his 1979 World Tour. Despite his successes, however, Belew has remained close to the tri-state music scene. In the late eighties, for example, he and local musicians Rob Fetters, Bob Nyswonger and Chris Arduser, assembled The Bears, a power pop band that released two records on the Primitive Man label before the label went under (a source of disappointment for Belew to this day). Shortly thereafter, that band regrouped, minus Belew, as the Psychodots, a staple of the local music scene and a band with which Belew maintains close ties. 1995 was a particularly fruitful year for Belew. It included the release of King Crimson's first studio album in ten years as well as a successful World Tour. It also marked the release of Belew's second solo effort on his Adrian Belew Presents label, The Guitar As Orchestra, a stunning work in the tradition of such modern classical composers as Philip Glass and Erik Satie, a record that is sure to shatter any assumptions that one may have had about the limitations of the guitar as an orchestral instrument. Everybody's News caught up with Belew a few days before Christmas to get his thoughts on the past year and to find out what he has planned for 1996. EN: How did the tour with King Crimson go? Belew: Great. Perfect. Really great tours. All the shows were really high quality I thought. You know the band is real consistent and even though there is a certain amount of difference from night to night - we improvise some parts of the show - overall, the show is extremely consistent and everybody had a real good time. EN: Where is King Crimson going from here? Belew: Well, we have a touring schedule for next year that takes us into some of the bigger festivals in Europe and some of the outdoor type of places here. I don't know if we'll get to a place as large as say Riverbend, but it's that type of place that we're looking at. And we'll probably learn some more Crimson material and shake up what we've been doing so far. In the meantime, we have a new album that comes out in the spring called Thrak Attack which is all improvised pieces. And right after the summer touring, we'll begin seriously writing the next record. So next fall we'll have material in the works and be headed toward the next proper album. It's kind of a long term plan with King Crimson, it always is... That gives everyone time to do all their other things, especially Robert (Fripp) and me. We both have a lot of other music we do. So we have six months now and I'm going to do several other projects. EN: Can you tell us about your Experimental Guitar Series in general and the new solo record, The Guitar As Orchestra, in particular? Belew: I have these two areas that I work in. One is within collaboration of a very highly charged band, King Crimson, with some of the finest musicians I would ever want to work with; the other area is my solo albums, on which I generally try to do everything myself... But sometimes I find these areas that don't fit on either page. They don't work for King Crimson and they don't work on pop solo albums and that's what the Experimental Guitar Series is earmarked for. EN: Will the audience for The Guitar As Orchestra be the same audience that is attracted to your other bodies of work? Belew: Well, I think it will be some of the same people, but I really think that this particular album is modern classical music and should be binned with the rest of the serious composers right along side of Kronos String Quartet... My guess, though, is that it will start with people who are familiar with the solo albums. I'm wondering how many of those people will be very surprised when the hear what a different record this is. But I think a lot of my fans have come to expect that of me; I don't usually repeat myself. It's all thematic to me... I had some of this material and I strove to fill in the spaces and make a complete thematic album out of it. EN: How were the experimental songs composed? Belew: The experimental songs are, for the most part, improvised pieces of music, which I then study and learn, then further orchestrate. In that whole process you have a lot of time where you have to listen to what you've done and maybe edit out anything that doesn't work for you. Then you go back and reorchestrate it. In a sense, it's an experimental way of composing; it's not just that the fact that you're doing things that the guitar is not supposed to do - that's the experimental nature of the guitar part - but it's also compositionally experimental. EN: The record has a very cinematic quality to it, sort of like a soundtrack without a film. Have you ever thought about doing a film soundtrack? Belew: Well, the first song (on The Guitar As Orchestra) is called "Song With No Film" so you're on the same page with me. I did recently to a documentary film in Canada for which I won an award... The film was called In The Gaffer And Other Good Places and it's a study of three street people living in Canada... who live off of trading in refundable bottles and things like that. It's a very poignant story; really well done. And as I said the film won best score... And, in fact, as I was doing the new album, The Guitar As Orchestra, I was keen to try to give it that quality-something cinematic and maybe it's a calling card for anyone out there that's interested. EN: Through the years, you have played with an incredible variety of musicians ranging from Frank Zappa at one end of the spectrum to Sara Hickman at the other. What is it about Adrian Belew that makes him such an attractive sideman to so many different kinds of artists? Belew: You'll probably have to ask them actually, but I've been asked that question before so I've thought about it. I think it's the fact that I have so many different things I can offer. While I do have a style, it's a style that incorporates so many different areas. When I come to play on your record I bring everything from drums and clarinets to rhinos and crickets and, of course, I can do all the normal guitar stuff. I learned how to play a variety styles - finger picking, country styles to blues guitar to Jimi Hendrix to classical things. I studied everything that I could... I think my own voice on guitar has more to do with sounds and textures and unique qualities that most people don't get out of a guitar and that's probably why people call me. It is interesting though. A year or so ago I found myself playing with Paul Simon and a week or so later playing on the Nine Inch Nails record. EN: You've already begun work on the next pop record. Is there anything you would like to do that you haven't done yet? Belew: I think I'd like to make an album that no one's made but I'm not sure what that is yet. I'm really pondering that. I've played on a lot of records, a lot of really different types of records and I'm really pleased with most everything that I've been able to do but I don't think that I've done anything that I can say is so unique that no one has ever done it. I wish I could do that somewhere in my life, but maybe that's a bit ambitious for anyone to think because it's all been done. But that's kind of where I'm starting on this next record, to see if I can stretch myself another time and come up with something new. EN: Will you do it all pretty much by yourself as you've done in the past? Belew: At this point I will... Sometimes there's the need for the interplay with other musicians, but overall on my records, I kind of like to make them as personalized as possible. It makes it more challenging and fun for me too. I really enjoy playing all kinds of instruments. I think the reason I even make records is because I want to hear what's in my mind put down on CD. It's also because I like the discovery process, I like the problem solving, of knowing that I would like to created this sound, now how do I do that. That's the most fascinating thing about music for me. John Madden runs Magus Productions, a local promotional and booking agency. ********************************************************************** Thanks again to Everybody's News for giving ET permission to reprint this copyrighted article. Please respect their rights by not transmitting this interview without their permission. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Thrak Attack?! Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 18:29:48 EST A recent interview with Belew states that an album of "improvised Crimson material" is being released in April called "Thrak Attack". Does anyone have any idea what this stuff is like? Where was it recorded? When? How? Why? Questions, questions, questions. By the way, if anyone cares, there's an interview with David Torn that features discussion about King Crimson (and rumours that he was going to be in it), Thrak, David Sylvian and all sorts of other thangs. It's at the website listed in my voluminous, and stupendously annoying sig below. ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Anil Prasad aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Visit the INNERVIEWS website featuring in-depth interviews with some of the world's most interesting and innovative musicians! http://www.carleton.ca/~aprasad ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:52:01 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: crimson influences in Meat Puppets??? hmmm.... Crimso influences are getting into a lot of music, methinks. I've just been listening to the new Meat Puppets album "No Joke", and am amazed to spot a KC influence (listen to the opening bars of "Scum", for instance). James [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]