From elephant-talk at arastar dot comWed Jan 17 06:47:39 1996 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 23:41:48 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #254 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 254, Tuesday, 16 January 1996 Today's Topics: Re: Drum thoughts Chordal Drums RE: Adrian Belew and Captain Beefheart court.zip problems Re: mail &c. Passengers; _Heat_ soundtrack H. Moriya (CGT) Interview Doug Abshire's Posting on KC Articles in Marquee Magazine Tony Levin Interview Unknown Disks fingerstyle guitar Fripp on I Feel Love by Blondie? fripp&eno, video products cover art: b'boom & thrak New York CD Stores welll... Grammy nominations Re: Crimso Alumni Frejus- the Noise video source Pre-Concert Music [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] FROM THE MODERATOR Hello everyone. ET's back now for '96. Thanks for being patient while I was on vacation. Even in the Canary Island of Lanzarotte there was a Crimson-esque link (well, sort of). Visiting some beautiful natural caves with designs by architect Cesar Manrique, what music was playing? Eno's Music For Airports, and other specially commissioned Eno works. Amazingly beautiful. That's enough from me. Now into 96 with ET! Best wishes to all, all 2,790 of you in 45 countries! Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:14:07 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Re: Drum thoughts > > From: Jeremy Lakatos > Subject: Re: New Standard Shoes Drum thoughts > Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:03:36 -0500 (EST) > > Oh, and a former friend and I had a discussion once: every rock band > has drums, and eliminating them would be quite a trick. I, however, > was pro-drum. I came upon this idea--what if the drums played > non-drum samples (electronic, of course)? Then you'd have the drum > flavor but a tonal sound. This is not a new concept. Have you heard any of Bruford's Earthworks albums? -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:32:08 -0600 To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk From: "John R. Nash" Subject: Chordal Drums Cc: jeremy at grove dot ufl dot EDU Jeremy Lakatos said: >Oh, and a former friend and I had a discussion once: every rock band >has drums, and eliminating them would be quite a trick. I, however, >was pro-drum. I came upon this idea--what if the drums played >non-drum samples (electronic, of course)? Then you'd have the drum >flavor but a tonal sound. And you could call them "Chordal Drums"... as Bruford does. :-) BB's experiments with drums as a melodic instrument aren't as prominent in King Crimson (which has so many melodic instruments already!), but he has done a fair amount with this in his group Earthworks. They are used on all of the Earthworks albums (which are well worth picking up if you like jazz at all); tunes like "Pilgrim's Way" and "Forget-Me-Not" come to mind as good examples. From the Crimson repertoire, "Waiting Man" certainly plays with percussion-as-melody, as well as guitar-as-rhythm. >And now I wonder, tuning your drums to the New Standard Tuning >would be really keen. Not quite sure I follow you on that... Drums are fundamentally a single-note instrument, like the piano or saxophone. The "chord shapes" of guitar are a result of the use of strings and frets, and being able to find the same note in different places on the fretboard. You could no more tune drums to NST than you could a piano. Of course, the single "notes" of the instrument can be chords themselves. One interesting application of this that I've heard was a wind controller which added notes based on the velocity of air flowing through (play "softly" for a single note, and blow hard to build a chord on that note). The same principle can be done with electronic drum pads; hard sticking doesn't have to produce merely a louder version of light taps. With the promise of further "double trio" development by KC in the future, I can easily imagine some swapping of the melodic and rhythmic duties. I await with open ears... -john -==-John R. Nash-==-nash at chem dot wisc dot edu-==-Dept of Chemistry, UW-Madison-==- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:35:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Aaron T. Porter" Subject: RE: Adrian Belew and Captain Beefheart The link between Belew and Beefheart is probably Frank Zappa. Belew played frequently with Zappa, recording a number of albums. And the tie from Zappa to Beefheart? Well, other than the fact that they went to High School together, and formed a number of bands together... well, you get the point. I must confess, I do not see as strong a musical link as was proposed, but I would agree that there is some Zappa/Beefheart influence visible in Belew's solo works (Twang Bar King, et al.) For another (off topic) great Beefheart-esque band, check out Primus. They strongly remind me of Beefheart's Trout Mask era. --- atporter at nextsrv dot cas dot muohio dot edu "Pre Longacre fan, post Longacre disciple." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Chris Savage" Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:52:08 +0000 Subject: court.zip problems Hiya! I have tried several times to download the court.zip file from the two ftp sites. I am dying to it as my Windows wallpaper. However, I am unable to unzip it as it appears to be corrupted file. Pkunzip doesn't recognize it. Neither does Archive Viewer. It should probably be removed from the ftp sites or, better yet, replaced with a file that is uncorrupted. Can anyone help me find a good copy of this .bmp file or a suitable alternative? Personal email replies would be best, I think. Thanks in advance, Chris Savage csavage at sojourn dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 05 Jan 96 17:40:08 EST From: Michael Peters <100041 dot 247 at compuserve dot com> To: Toby Howard Subject: Re: mail &c. Does anyone have a good scan of 'Midnight Blue' which is the image on the cover of 'Blessing of Tears'? I love this image but don't have a scanner. Maybe it's on the Web somewhere but I couldn't find it. -Michael @ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters thanks -M [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 19:55:29 -0600 (CST) From: John dot P dot Mohan at lawrence dot edu Subject: Passengers; _Heat_ soundtrack A couple recommendations to those who are fans of KC associates such as Eno, Michael Brook, and other noted artists in the ambient genre - I have recently picked up two similar and very excellent albums: _Original Soundtracks I_ by the Passengers (the "loose collective" of Brian Eno, U2, and others) and the soundtrack to the movie _Heat_. Both specialise in very sophisticated discreet music, full of brilliant subtleties contributed by Brian Eno (the master of the form) as well as others. The _Heat_ soundtrack especially features a track by Micheal Brook, as well as two by Moby, one by the Passengers, one by Brian Eno, and several by Kronos Quartet. Highly recommended for KC fans out there looking for good new music. JP. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 13:00:05 JST From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa) Subject: H. Moriya (CGT) Interview Hi Everyone, For unknown reason I did not receive ET mailings for a long time. Here's a continuation of my translation of an interview article (Mr H. Moriya of CGT). Interview was conducted on March 5, 1995 in Tokyo: Int: Do you try any experiment in arrangement for live performance? HM: We do not try to play any piece of music live without finishing the arrangement. We do not try to play different versions of arrangement for a piece either. Int: For example, was there any improvisation in today's performance? HM: Not only today. There are always improvisations. If you take the new album, the bass line of the 8th piece in the album and all of the second part of Bach piece are improvisations. But we do not improvise a whole piece. Also, there are pieces without any improvisation. We also do improvisation based on a key and a scale. Int: Why do you have improvisations depending on music pieces? HM: There are training aspects to it as well. But basically, the piece that has improvisation is a developing piece which could grow up. Int: Please explain how you record. HM: Up until recently we recorded directly into the console. In the new album we mixed the amplified sounds picked up through microphones with the direct-in sounds. Each member used two channels, total six channels. This is a result of our consideration for the Ovation guitar whose high tones create squeaking (?) sounds. Int: Since you referred to Ovation why don't you talk about instruments. HM: We are now ordering hand-made guitars. We will use them after they're complete. The new guitar is the same as Ovation in terms of electric-acoustic guitar, but we intend to look for more acoustic sounds and to make it durable for special tuning. Ovation has its uniqueness and we will use both Ovation and the new guitar. Int: What about rhythm training? HM: I think it is necessary to use a metronome as a base. It does not mean that you will be able to play with others because you can play along with the metronome. But I think it is a condition for you to first play according to the metronome before starting to play with others. Int: Lastly, please tell us about CGT's future activities. HM: We have an European tour including Italy. After that we will be playing before the King Crimson during their tour. I'd like to have a live recording out. I'd also like to have support members like drums, though it will only be irregularly. Int: What about individual activities of members? HM: Bert is active in classics field. Paul is also a member of Argentine group. I would like to do a solo playing electric guitar and rock but I haven't solidified my ideas yet. So it's going to be somewhat leter. === This concludes all the translations of the article appeared in "Arch Angel", a Japanese magazine published in September 1995. Bye, Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 13:09:36 JST From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa) Subject: Doug Abshire's Posting on KC Articles in Marquee Magazine Hi Everyone, In ET #252, Doug Abshire wrote about KC articles in Marquee, a Japanese magazine. Because I saw a similar postings half a year ago, I did some translations and posted them in ET few times. If you are interested, please look for them in ET archive, or ask me directly (I don't want to re-post all of them in ET to use lots of space). I've translated A. Belew interview already. Marquee is a very good magazine full of interesting information which they collected by themselves. Since there are so many articles on KC, I am translating them one by one. It'll take some time. Bye, Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 13:51:06 JST From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa) Subject: Tony Levin Interview Following is a partial translation of an article appeared in a Japanese magazine (Dec 95). Interview with Tony Levin: Int: How is your live in Japan so far? TL: Going well. This time we are playing very old songs which we didn't play live for a long time, like Red. It's going well too. We are also doing Neurotica. It's the first time to play live such a difficult song. Because we are a double trio, we had to practice a lot until everyone got together perfectly. It's fun playing old stuff in addition to the new ones. Int: We thought it was almost impossible to recreate Neurotica live. TL: Vocal is difficult. Of course, playing instruments, too, is not easy. I'm always surprised to hear old songs again. We ourselves are playing a very difficult song. We didn't know how we played it. I played it before but it's almost impossible to recreate it perfectly. Int: Is double trio functioning well on stage? TL: Yes, very much. You can always challenge something new. It's probably the ultimate band arrangement to have two players per instrument. Int: Isn't it difficult to split the roles between two basists? TL: It's not. No problem at all. Basically, I play like a normal bass player and keep the bottom part. Tone area-wise, mine is lower than Trey's. And Trey plays something closer to guitar. If you look at us live you'll understand. When Trey takes bass-like approach, then I'll stop playing and give space for Trey. That's how we keep balance. (translation to continue) Bye, Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:33:22 -0500 From: Mark2u at aol dot com Subject: Unknown Disks A few days ago I saw some titles that I am not familiar with. One is a live boot, the others are all David Cross CDs. I'm curious about the sound quality of the boot and the artistic merit of the Cross albums. The live boot was titled "Manicured Noise". The graphics were all re-hash copies of the Thrack album. It think it was recorded in Northern Europe somewhere (I have a graphical memory, but sometimes it's not very focused). There were three David Cross CDs on the "Red Hot" label and also the aforementioned "Lowflying Aircraft" CD. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks! Mark Stevens [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:10:59 -0500 From: STONE967 at aol dot com Subject: fingerstyle guitar Hi Crimsoids, While I realize Mr. Fripp is purely a plecturm player (which is fine), does he object to fingerstyle guitar? I've never heard his opinion on the subject. I do know other plectrum players such as Al Di Meola who feel fingerstyle is a "lesser" form of playing. Plectrum style has some defininte advantages, but anybody who has heard the likes of Phil Keaggy can argue the case for fingerstyle. Anybody's thoughts? STONE967 at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 17:17 GMT From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley) Subject: Fripp on I Feel Love by Blondie? I forget who said this: > I also noticed a single by Blondie consisting mainly of remixes of "Union > City Blue," which also includes a version of Donna Summers' "I Feel Love," > live from the Hammersmith Odeon, Jan. 1980. Now I know that Fripp played > with Blondie at the Hammersmith, and a Debbie Harry-sung version of "I > Feel Love" was originally intended for Exposure...so I suspect Fripp plays > on this track...this needs further investigation... > On the strength of the above reasoning, I picked up the single today. I don't think Fripp is on the live track. But anyone who wants to check it out for themselves is free to buy/trade the single from me! -- Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk) http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/ronc/index.html Chill. Serve. Enjoy. Repeat. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jay Kress Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:47:09 -0500 Subject: fripp&eno, video products in response to points 2 and 4, of ARCHITO at aol dot com's post to et#252 with the subject "odds and ends": > ...Anybody aware of "Peter's clock" and "Oaken Gates" on > other studio or live discs? an italian ('94) double disc titled "electronic genius", containing fripp & eno from some bbs top gear sessions (19 & 26 feb '74) on one disc, and gentle giant (live 3-oct-75) on the other disc. disc one contains wind on water/peter's clock/oaken gates (19'20") as track 5, the only non-top gear fripp&eno material, recorded at olympia hall in paris on 28-may-75. it's availbable ($39.95) from ranjit (see below). the other tunes can all be had, on the much more affordable (limited edition?) "dali's car" eno disc. > 4. Is anyone familiar with other laserdisks of KC or Fripp > besides Sylvian/Fripp Live in Japan & TOAPP Live in Japan. If > so, please email me. here's a laserdisc and video, also available from ranjit. Fripp, Robert - Careful With That Axe [Japan/LD] $59.95 Fripp, Robert String Quartet - Live In Japan [USA/PHA/VHS] $18.95 ranjit p: http://www.webpage.com/~progtron/ *or* ftp.netcom.com /pub/ra/ranjit *or* email to ranjit at netcom dot com p.s. i don't work for ranjit [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jay Kress Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 07:14:12 -0500 Subject: cover art: b'boom & thrak the rear cover of b'boom is a processed version of the front cover of thrak. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: parki at algorithmics dot com (Brian Parkinson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 15:57:33 -0500 Subject: New York CD Stores I'm going to New York (on bidness :-) next week, and I'm wondering if any kind souls know a few good CD stores to look for rare stuff (i.e. bootlegs). Please e-mail me with addresses if you know of any. Many thanx, Brian Parkinson, M.Sc | | Life is complex - (H) 769-4586 | It has real and imaginary components. (W) 416-703-3669 x247 | [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin) Subject: welll... Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 12:52:03 +0100 (MET) Seems we are lacking topics these days... No that the the story of the new standard shoes was not exhilarating (in fact, it was!) but most of the days of tour are gone for the moment, no new record to tell about (you even all have the last Mick Karn album, the last David Torn Album too, this Italian guys album with Brian Eno, Harold Budd, Torn and David Sylvian, and I guess you already have all stepped on this O'Hearn/Torn/Bozzio (yes, not Karn, but O'Hearn) album... So what are we going to SHARE? I didn't even finish to translate this never ending Bruford interview. So? So, I have found a Robert Fripp String Quintet album named Soundscape that contain 17 selections (Ah Ah Ah, did I draw some of your attention?). those selections are: Soundscape Yamanashi blues Melrose avenue Kan-non power Firescape An easy way Moving force Asturias Walk don't run Chromatic fantasy contrapunctus Eye of the needle Blockhead Hope Urban cape Pipeline Kan-non power It's ref. is RPCD 1116. And there is a litle "Red Phantom" (a cracker?). I am prone to think that it is a bootleg, but I a am not sure. There is a nice booklet with several pictures of R. Fripp and Gunn inside. Photo credits says "Studio Pixel, Italy". Many R.F. photos inlude the shadow of a Grand Stick just behind him. The sound is extremely nice, clearer than on "The Bridge Between". (would you believe, a bootleg with a better quality than studio album?) I was recorded during November 1992, but where remains a complete mystery. As far as i know, there was 3 others "chapter", but none can be ordered anymore. My records store is denying any knowledge of these records. They say they don't exist, that they never did, and, therefore that never had any CD to sell of these... (except I hold it in my very hands). Doesn't it sound like it is some kind of a X-Files story? Maybe you will find one, anyway... G'journey. Olivier Malhomme. ÒYou have to let the music play the Human intrumentÓ R. Fripp. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 15:40:56 -0500 From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: Grammy nominations King Crimson has been nominated for a Grammy award. See below Subj: Grammy nominations Date: 96-01-08 19:53:58 EST From: ASchulberg To: ASchulberg ROCK INSTRUMENTAL PERFORMANCE (Includes rock, hard rock & metal instrumentals.) ``Jessica'' -- The Allman Brothers Band (track from ``2nd Set -- an Evening With the Allman Brothers Band'' (Epic) ``Shapes of Things'' -- The Jeff Healey Band (track from ``Cover to Cover'' (Arista) ``Vrooom'' -- King Crimson (track from ``Thrak'' (Virgin Records America) ``Every Now and Then'' -- Santana With Vernon Reid (track from ``Dance of the Rainbow Serpent'' (Legacy/Columbia) ``Tender Surrender'' -- Steve Vai (track from ``Alien Love Secrets'') (Relativity) Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 20:59:41 -0800 From: ErikSensei at eworld dot com Subject: Re: Crimso Alumni In ET 253, my friend Brian mentioned the following in reference to "obscure alumni" recordings... > I also really like the Roy Harper ~1975 album (the name escapes > me, still not on CD?) that has Bill Bruford playing drums, David > Gilmore on guitar and John Paul Jones on bass. The album to which Brian is referring is titled 'HQ'. It was indeed released in 1975, with Bill Bruford, Dave Gilmore and John Paul Jones all appearing on the album (listed in the liner notes, in typical Roy Harper fashion, as being "fellow conspirators"). For the completists among us, the other "conspirators" are Chris Spedding, Dave Cochran, Steve Broughton, Dave Bedford, Ray Warleigh and the Grimethorpe Colliery Band. I echo Brian's praise for this album. It's quite nice listening. As a matter of fact, Roy Harper always seems to pull together rather interesting groups of musicians for his albums. I'm also unsure as to whether or not it's been released on CD as yet, though I could almost swear that I remember seeing it while flipping through the racks at the Wave music store in Roppongi, Tokyo. (Any ETers in Japan able to confirm this?) I can also echo Brian's praise for Gordon Haskell's "Hambledon Hill" album, which I quite like as well. And I wish those of you who "have just started down this trail of locating obscure side works" happy hunting! Although you'll probably bump into more than enough duds along the way, every so often you'll also unearth some nifty little jewel...and that'll make it all worthwhile. Peace & good tunes, Erik "There are only five musicians in the world" - J. Stevenson [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:48:59 -0500 From: ARCHITO at aol dot com Subject: Frejus- the Noise video source Welcome to the new year Eters. If you are looking for the video Frejus - the Noise try: Dave Jones PO Box 9364 Wyoming MI 49509 USA. He also has some 73-74 KC concerts and 80's TV videos as well as Eno, Sylvian, etc. Enjoy! Doug Abshire aka ARCHITO @aol.com (PS I don't work for Dave Jones and I wish that Fripp & Co would release or re-release legitimate stuff!). [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 8:38:09 -0500 (EST) From: "RICK CHURCHILL, ELIHU BURRITT LIBRARY" Subject: Pre-Concert Music I am trying to identify the music that was playing over the PA prior to a recent Crimso concert. Specifically, it was at the 11/17/95 show, Paramount Theatre, Springfield, MA. At first I thought it may have been a Soundscapes piece- synth/guitar synth, but it also had percussion, piano,and maybe even real strings. Vaguely modern "classical". This is a rather scant impression, but does anyone have a clue? I'd like to get a hold of whatever it is. Thanks Rick churchill at csusys dot ctstateu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]