From elephant-talk at arastar dot comFri Dec 8 06:36:52 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:23:59 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #250 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 250, Thursday, 7 December 1995 Today's Topics: KC european tour KC Lightshow/FaaB Lyric Holst in ItWoP; Trio ? Bruford's Book Fleck/Fripp KC Tour Germany '96 String Weights Re: Pictures and SaBB Re: Elephant Talk #249 Pipeline, a real(tm) version Surf Guitar/THRAK guitar Crafty Tuning on Guitar Greg Lake/John Wetton Do KC Young Person's Guide ET #249 Miscellany Happy 250th!!!! Live Elephant Talk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] FROM THE MODERATOR We have a serious bandwidth problem on ET. To help reduce traffic on this list, would readers please reply directly to the poster of a topic, and the original poster is encouraged to summarize responses. The following topics have been judged by ET readers to have been "done to death", so no posts about those please. THE EXPIRED LIST 1. KC on Conan 2. Fripp's approach to fan encounters 3. Things that hit Fripp on the head 4. Larks Tongues in Aspic in "Emanuelle" 5. Why and when people shout FREEBIRD. 6. What substances to ingest prior to a KC gig 7. Who is the best vocalist KC ever had? 8. Are Pete Sinfield's lyrics any good? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:30:59 +0100 Subject: KC european tour From: removed at users dot request (GW) I just heard that the european King-Crimson-Tour has been canceled !! This is really disappointing. Does anyone know more details? Will there ever be a new european tour?? Ciao GW [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 13:58:52 -0600 From: dominic at MO dot NET (Dominic Schaeffer) Subject: KC Lightshow/FaaB Lyric Dearest ETers, I was able to attend the 100th concert at the Rosemont in Chicago. A wonderful show! The first I had seen of this double-trio line-up. What a Band! I have two quick thoughts about the event if you will indulge me. 1) I have seen both the Discipline and Wetton era KCs and i don't recall either shows having such an ellaborate, computer run lightshow. Maybe they had lights with red gels on the band with Fripp in his usual back-light shadow style... But I found this tours lightshow very distracting. For instance, the little green spots washing the audiance during the middle of "One Time". I could just hear the lighting director thinking "well, this is where the audiance will be bored by the lull in the music, so before they fall asleep..." I love that part of the song with all its intracacies, and the glare in my eyes detracted from the experiance. Also, if anyone is going to presuppose my thinking, I would rather it be the artist! That is, after all, why I was there. 2) I heard the original tape of Lennons "Free..." on NPRs FRESH AIR shortly before the release of the Beatles Anthology and Lennon hums some of the lyrics as it was an unfinished work. From what I understand, Yoko gave this tape to the Beatles for precisely that reason. Leaving Paul to fill in the blanks, making it a true Lennon/McCartney composition. So Belew didn't forget the words as I read in some of the reveiws of the night. As only a true Lennon fan would, Belew was doing the origional! A lovely tribute, Adrian. Thanks! Please send any thoughts or corrections (please!) to me directly as Toby has his hands full here. I hope this doesn't earn me any flamming, though I welcome any and all thoughts. peace, Dominic Schaeffer St. Louis, MO dominic at mo dot net @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ***FUNKABILLY "WHAT'S THAT SMELL? LIVE AT THE VENICE CAFE"******* "Damn! That's a kick-ass record!"-GOD @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ http://walden.mo.net/~dominic/fkb.html o \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o /|\ | /\ ___\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ / \ / \ | \ /) | ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ / | / \ / \ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:05:34 +0100 From: Riesz Ferenc Subject: Holst in ItWoP; Trio ? Hi ! On the second side of "In the Wake of Posseidon" the piece "The Devil's Triangle" appears to be an arrangement of the first movement (Mars, the bringer of war) of Gustav Holst's orchestral suite, The Planets. This fact is not credited on the album cover. Does anybody know anything about this ? My second question: what is the third instrument on "Trio" (SaBB) (besides the violin and bass) ? Ferenc [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 22:41:05 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Bruford's Book Fred Raimondi posted about Bruford's book, "When in Doubt, Roll". If anyone does happen to find the book or know where I could find it, please contact me as well. Thanks. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jeremy Lakatos Subject: Fleck/Fripp Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 21:55:35 -0500 (EST) The collaboration of the decade? If you've seen me on other lists, you know I'm the guy who comes up with the weird musical ideas. This is no different. What I'm suggesting here is a joining of King Crimson (and the Coconuts) and the Flecktones. Let's look at some similarities between Robert Fripp and Bela Fleck. First, they are each masters of their instruments, for Fripp the guitar and for Fleck the banjo. Second, they are both great songwriters, able to write songs which are compelling and which do not grow tiresome over time. They both like to write music in odd meters. Though Bela does not have the fetish for a straight ahead rock beat that Fripp has been mentioned having. But Bela has never, in my knowledge, written anything sinister or frightening. Differences to exploit. Third, each man has a genius for collecting fantastic musicians together. Fripp with the various Crimso incarnations, as well as the Sylvian/Gunn group and the RFSQ. Fleck with Strength in Numbers, the Flecktones themselves (the best bassist I have ever heard, as well as a great percussionist and, at one time, a very fine harpist/keyboardist), as well as Chick Corea, Tony Rice, Matt Mundy, and Paul McCandless on the incredible _Tales from the Acoustic Planet_. Fourth, both are familiar with electronics in music. Fripp with his soundscapes and effect-infatuation, plus current fellows Belew the Midi Master, Bruford the electronic/acoustic drummer, and Gunn the atmospheric genius. Fleck with drummer Roy "Future Man" Wooten, who plays a SynthAxe Drumitar and the new Zen Drumitar, as well as Fleck's and bassist Victor Wooten's use of midi triggers to make up for the loss of the fourth member. Fifth, both have last names that begin with F, have five letters, and are one syllable long. Both have two syllable first names. I say go for it. The double trio, even if it were put into actual use for once, is still thinking too small. I say go for a triple trio. Only two drummers, two bassists? Too small. Adding the Wootens would create the rhythm section of kings. It would be awe inspiring. And Bela could add a second fast high string line, which is lost when Fripp is soundscaping. Plus, the addition of three very friendly and personable guys would futher help offset any harm Fripp does to his fans with his manner. Now, one problem would be genre. Fripp is a pretty steady rock and roll guy, with a tiny bit of jazz in some of his music, plus the influence of Bruford and Levin. Fleck is well entrenched in jazz and bluegrass. I don't know if Fripp could stomach bluegrass. I say, work through it. The only other problem I can see is that so much musicianship concentrated in one place might cause an earthquake or other natural disaster, whether because the chorus of angels gets jealous or because it just ain't natural. Then thousands of fans of good music would be without their favorite musicians. Tragedy all around. Fleck/Fripp. One can dream strange dreams, okay. jeremy at grove dot ufl dot edu (SF net-anthology taking stories; email for info) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:16:36 +0100 From: "Ulrike.Kersten" Subject: KC Tour Germany '96 Hi all, I'm sorry to say, but the tour of which I sent the Bonn concert date is cancelled. They've rescheduled it for June / July and are planning to use small venues ( I guess huge "clubs") and small Open Airs (urgh!). I shall call them again soon, see if they got more dates then. Cheers, Ulrike [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:56:37 -0600 From: medtek at ghgcorp dot com (Sandra J. Prow) Subject: String Weights >There is also a set of New Standard Tuning Strings available. They're >made by John Pearse, but I have no idea how difficult or not they are to >find in general. I bought a pair of local store house brand ultra light acoustic strings and was able to tune my guitar to New Standard Tuning with no trouble. I just took my time, gritted my teeth and kept cranking until I got there. Maybe it's because I'm too much of a beginner to know any better. OR, maybe Mr. Fripp is right, that the guitar and I were both ready to accept the tuning. ~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~| http://www.ghgcorp.com/medtek Sandra J. Prow | I don't represent anyone, medtek at ghgcorp dot com | Not that anyone medtek at bix dot com | Would want me to.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:39:11 -0200 From: Tefkros Symeonides Subject: Re: Pictures and SaBB In ET #249, MatrickIV at aol dot com wrote: >my roomate (who likes Crimson, but isn't a fanatic) thinks that Pictures of a >City sounds too much like 21 st CSM. However, I have never thought of IWofTP >to be a sound alike for ItCoftCK. I do agree that Pictures of a City uses >some of the same structural ideas as 21 st CSM, I agree as well. Also the use of the instruments (especially the winds and brasses) is very similar. And what about Peace-a Beginning which precedes it? A quiet piece that suddenly goes into a powerful burst of jazzy-ish music. Just like 21stCSM. And then there's the... >tightly >executed break down section and crash and burn outro. Well I've always thought of Pictures of a City as a great song, but still more or less a reprise of 21stCSM. > As for the rest of the album IWoftP it dosen't seem to follow the same flow >as IthCourtof the CK from what I hear, particularly on side two. Cat Food is >totaly unlike anything on the first album. Plus the mellotron pieces like >Garden of the Worm are not for the weak of ear or people w/ heart conditions. Sure, Cat Food and the whole Devil's Triangle/Mars piece have no "equivalent" in ItCotCK, but otherwise there's Cadence and Cascade (compare with I Talk to the Wind) and the title track (compare with Epitaph). That's why I believe, although ItWoP is not just ItCotCK all over again, there are quite a few similarities. > This stuff if very heavy and intense and not very commercially accesible. > This album also shows signs of Crimsons move to farther out of the >mainstream. Lizard and Islands are probably less commercial than any other >Crimson I can think of. IMO King Crimson have NEVER, EVER been commercial. BTW, I have an important question. I'm sure all of you here know about that "This night wounds time" quotething in SaBB. It's been spinning in my head since I saw it. What's the story/meaning/whatever behind it? [ This last question is a FAQ. Replies direct to Tefkros please. -- Toby ] Regards, Tefkros Symeonides [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:44:56 +0100 (MET) From: markus gruber Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #249 Hi, here's Klaus Bergmaier from Austria participating once more. As an answer to the YES topic, I read (in MTVtext Europe) that the new line-up consists of Anderson/Wakeman/Howe/Squire/White. Alan White is going to be the drummer (why should he quit? and BB has two other excellent groups to play in), so this would be the YES line-up from 1973 (Yessongs, Tales from Topographic Oceans) and 1976-1978 (Going for the One, Tormato, Yesshows). I'm looking forward to their music anyway, although I adore BB. That leads to the (not so prominent) question, what BB's Earthworkers do while their boss works with KC. Well they are jazz musicians, they tour with various musicians and play on diverse records. Django Bates played in Austria at least 3 times this year. BTW PM played the drums on a track with the "Rembrandts" called "Making Plans for Nigel", which is featured on the album "A Testimonial Dinner - A Tribute to the Music of XTC" (a band on whose highly recommendable 1989 album "Oranges and Lemons" PM did excellent drumming himself on all tracks) That's it, things that most of you will know by now, but maybe I could help someone. Bye Klaus [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Oskardmay - Imonics Corporation Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:44:25 -0500 Subject: Pipeline, a real(tm) version Sorry to take any bandwidth at all these days! If you liked Pipeline performed by CGT... The hardcore band Agent Orange did a searing rendition of it back in the early 80's. It's probably impossible to find nowadays though. Oh well. bye, david [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 08:43:15 EST From: acohen at lib dot com Subject: Surf Guitar/THRAK guitar Quoth Eric: : the CGT *don't* perform the theme from Pulp : Fiction (unless they've changed their repertoire since the last : three times I saw them). They perform "Pipeline" by the Ventures, : which sounds sorta like the theme from Pulp Fiction in a couple of : places. The title is right there on the first CGT, for anyone to : read. The Pulp Fiction theme (I don't recall the real title), by : Dick Dale, is a completely different song. Well, I guess they've changed their repertoire! They definitely played Dick Dale's arrangement of "Miserlou" (which was used in "Pulp Fiction") in Springfield. * * * I'd like to agree with the guy(?) who said the band is much better now than they were even in June; I have to agree that I found the concert in Springfield (recently) far more compelling than the spring tour shows I saw. If this keeps up, they'll be frighteningly good next summer. I also just bought "B'Boom"... it's great to hear them working out the kinks in their material, but the "heavy" songs can't hold a candle to the way they're playing them now. Here's hoping they put out another double live set of late-1995 material (I know, I'm not holding my breath). Does anyone else think that the version of "THRAK" on the "VROOOM" EP is the best version of the four(!) they've released so far? --Art [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 07:27:29 -0800 From: cdosem at halcyon dot com (Sarah Melching Christian Overbey) Subject: Crafty Tuning on Guitar I have been using the new standard "crafty" tuning on my guitar since I first read about it on ET several months ago and love it. Guitar: 15 year old Ovation, Strings: (currently) DR, Zebra, Electric Acoustic, ZAE-11, with 11,15,22,30,40,50 "Med/Lite". I have just started using these strings and will probably stick with them for a while. The first day I tuned to the new standard tuning, I broke the high string. I was careful to tune the replacement slowly - over 1/2 hour. Now I tune the highest three over a period of about 1/2 hour to their correct tension and have no problems with breakage. This tuning seems to require lots of "tempering" as in "well-tempered". It will sound out of tune in places, but will change the way one looks at the fretboard. It makes more sense to me now. Seattle, Washington, 47d30'N, 122d30'W (close enough) dot dot dot cdosem at halcyon dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 02:18:00 +1100 (EST) From: Marcel Safier Subject: Greg Lake/John Wetton Do KC The King Biscuit Flower Hour Presents Greg Lake CD features reasonable versions of 21st Century Schizoid Man and In The Court of The Crimson King. The concert is from 1981's Greg Lake Band with Gary Moore on guitar and Ted McKenna and Tommy Eyre from Sensational Alex Harvey Band. Also, although previously posted, John Wetton's Chasing The Dragon (not choking the dragon eh John?) features: Easy Money, Starless and Book of Saturday. Nothing like ex-vocalists cashing in on the success of their former bands eh (perhaps that's a bit harsh, but, what the heck!). Now we await Gordon Haskell's turn, God forbid. Does anybody have a CD copy of the original Lizards EGCD4 release i.e. not the Definative Edition version that they are prepared to sell? Cheers! Marcel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jose dot Douglas at turner dot com Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:09:31 -0500 Subject: Young Person's Guide Hi y'all, I lost my lp copy of Young Persons Guide years ago & just ordered the JAP CD from a place in the net called PROGTRON that speciallizes on imported prog. music. (http://www.webpage.com/`progtron/) I believe they still have some copies available (includes booklet)for those interested, it ran approx US$33.00 including shipping. I've ordered from PROGTRON before w/good results. They take cheque or money order only. Bye for now Jose [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:17:59 -0500 From: JimKlo at aol dot com Subject: ET #249 Miscellany Re: Craig Dickson on E. Tamm's Robert Fripp book: Just went to a local bookstore (Barnes and Knoble) last night, and was able to order this book for $13.95, so it is still in print. Re: Gene O'Neal on Fracture "import" I believe the "import" should be spelled b-o-o-t-l-e-g, if I am not mistaken. While this would be a good item for the serious collector, the sonic quality of the music suffers from the crowd surrounding what is obviously a low-priced tape recorder ("That's Fripp, Man!"). I bought this last night for almost $30, and had it back to the record store an hour and 26 minutes later for a refund (although Fripp's comments to the crowd were fun to hear). Now, a question...repeated listenings of LTIA II from B'Boom (to relive last week's Chicago show) revealed squeeky little sounds here and there starting about 4 minutes into the song. Sounds like a dog's squeeky toy. Anybody else know what this is? [ Replies to the poster please, who I hop will summarise -- thanks Toby ] An indiginous Argentinian creature? Jim K. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:53:54 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Happy 250th!!!! Congratulations and salutations to Toby and all involved with making the ET Digest the font of knowledge and fraternal meeting place for all fans of the "Cocoanuts" Once again, congrats on your(and our) 250th. On another topic, if Tony is reading this, a few years back I think I saw him in a restaurant on First Avenue in the East 70's in NYC called Mama Leah's Blintzeria (it's not there anymore). He was sitting with an older couple, and I felt shy about going over to bother him during his meal, so I didn't. But I've always wondered whether it was him or not. Cheers, CV [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Steve Peterson Subject: Live Elephant Talk Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:03:45 -0700 (MST) Brian E. Barrett brought the wierdness of Adrian's _Elephant_Talk_ qmiscues to our attention. Now, Peter Gabriel seems to have used this device to advantage with his fans: Peter is famous for screwing up songs on-stage. As an example, I saw Peter in '82 or '83 at the Paramount in Seattle (with Mr. Levin and others). Gabriel completely blew the beginning of _Shock_the_Monkey_, so badly in fact that he stopped the song, announced to the audience that that had been "the worst @#$%-up of my professional career", and started again from the top (stage entrance and all). Every Gabriel fan I've encountered has held such experiences close to their heart in that special place reserved for jewel-like experiences. Perhaps Adrian is practicing the very same technique for creating and maintaining undying adoration amongst his fans. Naaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! -- electronically yours, ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo | Steve Peterson | * * * * | | | Mail Stop B0 | * * * * | stevekp at fc dot hp dot com | | Work Management Operation | * snow is good * | | | Hewlett-Packard Company | * * * * | | | 3404 East Harmony Road | * * * * | (970) 229-4342 | | Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599 | * * * * | | ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]