From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu Dec 7 09:06:31 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:02:50 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #249 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 249, Wednesday, 6 December 1995 Today's Topics: Contact Trio Group YES 4 Bruford Albums Live Elephant Talk RE: Tshirt question string weights and other Indiscipline Re: EA few new items Breaking strings Tony's Troubles-Terrific Ticklish Treat Trey Gunn Diary Jeff Berlin & Bruford Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 The Guitar as Orchestra RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Re: Re: Quizz KC "not a band for television" The band to watch Correction What BB's Doing In B'Boom Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Re: In the Wake of a Picture. Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Bruford/Holdsworth/Berlin Trio OOOPS Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Levin studio gigs/Other stickees/obscure Crimsalumni/4th of Bruford NYC 11/20-11/22 Re : McDonald & Giles "Tapping Here and There" Eric Tamm An Odd Live Track More on B'Boom, Frylvian/Sipp Pinky&The Brain as KC II Django Bates plays Hendrix GIG REVIEWS (AND OTHER FODDER) Pipeline Bill is back/quizz 2 Guitar sound on Great Deceiver? General thoughts about KC (none) The Bruford Book Tony Levin on Trace Elliot CD Sit Down, Shut Up, Listen, Enjoy!] Fracture "import" Bandwidth & Interviews Al Gore describes how LSD occasionally causes bad Fripps... re: King Crimson and the Coconuts Mysterious ending on Islands [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] FROM THE MODERATOR We have an EXTREMELY SERIOUS bandwidth problem on ET. To help reduce traffic on this list, would readers please reply directly to the poster of a topic, and the original poster is encouraged to summarize responses. And please Please PLEASE stop and think if you REALLY want to post to ET. Stop. Have a coffee. Eat/smoke something. Come back. The following topics have been judged by ET readers to have been "done to death", so no posts about those please. THE EXPIRED LIST 1. KC on Conan 2. Fripp's approach to fan encounters 3. Things that hit Fripp on the head 4. Larks Tongues in Aspic in "Emanuelle" 5. Why and when people shout FREEBIRD. 6. What substances to ingest prior to a KC gig 7. Who is the best vocalist KC ever had? 8. Are Pete Sinfield's lyrics any good? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: BENJAMIN_SALOMON at hp-puertorico-om1 dot om dot hp dot com Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 09:37:30 -0400 Subject: Contact Trio Group I have a request. I am looking for recordings of a German group called "Contact Trio". They played avant-garde jazz/progressive rock around the early eighties. I know they recorded in Germany, maybe in the late 70's. I have no other information other that they did tour. Actually, I saw them in Lima,Peru back in '81. Very impressive. Being non-commercial music and in the genre of, I would say, "KC", could you please post this request in hope of a reply. Regards, Ben Salomon bsalomon at hpprdeb dot prd dot hp dot com [ Please respond to the poster directly, not to ET. -- Thanks Toby] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:03:13 -0500 From: jconnoly at ma dot mew dot com (joseph connolly) Subject: YES Crimsos', Yesterdays Boston Globe said a new Yes reunion is to tour shortly. Featuring Anderson, Squire, Howe, Wakeman and BILL BRUFORD. Anyone else hear this?? Thanx. joe connolly [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:07:42 -0500 From: Jose dot Douglas at turner dot com Subject: 4 Bruford Albums Hi y'all, some ET'ers have been writing about Bruford's 4 albums, I only knew of 3; FEELS GOOD TO ME, ONE OF A KIND, & GRADUALLY GOING TORNADO. I left the U.S.of A. for a while after that and apparently missed the fourth one. If anyone could let me know the title, if D. Stewart & J.Berlin where part of it, and when it came out, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Jose Douglas [ Please respond to the poster directly, not to ET. -- Thanks Toby] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 08:34:07 PST From: Brian_Barrett at mc dot xerox dot com (Barrett,Brian E) Subject: Live Elephant Talk Hi, I've seen KC in concert twice, and Belew a few times, and 3 out of 4 times (he didn't play it at one concert) he screws up Elephant Talk BAD! I've seen him repeat verses, stumble on words (which is only natural) forget the last verse and scream "ELEPHANT TALK!" only to have Fripp start the song over again so they can finish it out. Is he doing this on purpose? Does he do this a lot? I mean the song is in 4/4, and relatively simple (compared to any other KCsong ) I would think that after 12-13 years of singing it over and over he would have a better performance ratio. I AM NOT COMPLAINING... it's just weird. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Kirby, Jay (John E)" Subject: RE: Tshirt question Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:00:06 -0600 In a previous ET, Rhea Frankel queried: > Hi. I just bought a Crimson tshirt with various album covers on the > front. I recognize all but one of them. The cover on the bottom has the > earth with a face superimposed. Can someone identify this album for me? Sounds like "A Young Person's Guide to ..." (compilation) back (?) cover. Not sure if this is out in the same form on CD, though... .. Jay Kirby (jekirby at ingr dot com) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:58:47 -0500 (EST) From: brat prince Subject: string weights and other string weights: I actually use slightly heavier strings than normal on the lower three and also basically replace the 3rd String with a (traditional) B. I would suggest not using anything lighter than a .09 on the first string (or else it will break) and using a .11 or .13 on the second string. That should solve the string breakage problems people reported. There is also a set of New Standard Tuning Strings available. They're made by John Pearse, but I have no idea how difficult or not they are to find in general. I've used them and they are pretty nice. The only thing that's tricky is the paper envelopes for the individual strings are still labelled with the traditional notes they are usually tuned too. It gets me a tad confused sometimes. To Peter Sullivan (and anyone else)-- let me clarify: as to point #1 (the gurdjieff issue in my original post) - yes, the folks behind me were certainly partially correct, but didn't have it quite right (at least in my opinion). As to point #2 (as to Toyah Wilcox) my objection was their use of the word "was" (sorry I work in a journalism org... I'm a stickler for correct lanaguage) because as I think most of us are aware Fripp is still quite married to her and the folks behind me had a different story going all together. Sorry for the confusion. -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:04:03 -0800 From: Gary Viggers Subject: Indiscipline Can somebody email me or post the lyrics to Indiscipline. Thanks Gary [ Please respond to the poster directly, not to ET. -- Thanks Toby] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: DaLane at oxygen dot bbn dot com (Dave Lane) Organization: BBN Domain Corporation Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 14:28:55 -0500 Subject: Re: EA few new items PossProd at aol dot com (Mark Perry) wrote: > [...] I'm always looking for simple, clever ideas > for merchandise. Ideas of value. What is it that you want? What would be a > fair price ? Two ideas that really don't need mentioning are - 1) Crimson > video or 2) Archival live recordings [they're coming]. I can think of a few: Sylvian/Fripp's "Damage" recently went out of print. How about a resurrected non-limited edition of it at a regular price & w/out the nice-but-unnecessary little box & gold-tinted CD. I already own the disc, but it'd be a good regular catalog item for the folks that never were able to pick it up. Also, the Sylvian/Fripp live video would be nice as a VHS item or as a regular-priced LD, not the exorbitantly-priced one that's currently being offered. I mean, $67.99? That's double or triple what you'd pay for the average LD concert video down at your local Tower! Also, how about a Bill Bruford clothing line, starting with the yellow suitjacket from the Thrak tour, and the obnoxious black & white one from the 3oaPP tour, and maybe the Boston Bruins logo on the white overalls from the Genesis/UK days. --Dave [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 14:35:25 EST From: david at visix dot com (David Charlap) Subject: Breaking strings "Peter" writes: > >This is in response to those who said they broke a lot of strings trying to >get into the Fripp tuning. I used the same old strings on the lower three, >replaced the old G (the third string) with a B string tuning down a whole >step, replaced the second string with a regular high E (.09 or .10), and >used a .08 (the thinnest thing I could find) for the G on the first string. >I like this setup because four of the strings are downtuned, allowing for >wider bends. The only problem is that the high G is sort of tight- I broke >a few by bending them too far, but you can tune up with no need to worry. Another idea is to do what piano tuners do. You can't tune a new piano string to its proper pitch when you install it. If you do, chances are it will break when you start playing on it. (For those who don't know, pianos work by hitting the strings with felt-covered-wood hammers.) So, you install it and tune it a bit low. After a week or two, you tune it up a half-tone and wait another week. Repeat this until its right-on. This gives the string a chance to stretch into position without breaking. I suspect you could do the same thing with a guitar string. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:11:53 +0800 From: John dot Lukes at Ebay dot Sun dot COM (John Lukes) Subject: Tony's Troubles-Terrific Ticklish Treat I really enjoyed Tony's post about that Racket-making character behind him. Fun stuff! Okay, the tour's over. So, where do we go from here?! For one thing, I guess I'll have time to really listen to Tony's new CD, and Adrian's (as soon as I get it), and the double-live official bootleg. I was thinking of unsubscribing, mostly for personal bandwidth reasons, as another poster intimated, but Tony's post leads me to think that maybe there'll be some more "fun" amidst all the ramblings. Reading E-Talk has helped me hone my "scanning" skills! ;>) -JOHN [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:21:20 -0500 From: MElliiott at aol dot com Subject: Trey Gunn Diary Re: the Crimson concert in Fort Lauderdale: Would someone PLEASE let Trey know that the show was NOT the "loss" he thinks?! The whooping and hollering during the break in THRAK was a result of sheer exctacy. You cannot bring a theatre full of people near orgasm (by the way, I'm not one of the "beards") and expect them to sit still for it. It was genious, and everybody was reeling on the way out. We loved it, and we love you for coming to Florida. I also came to the conclusion that Robert Fripp was made by the Disney engineers who made the presidents for the Hall of Presdients - about every three minutes or so, he activated and made some random movements so as to look real. Really impressive work... Thanks, guys, for the music, and for the opportunity to access you. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:20:34 -0600 From: uchima at fncrd8 dot fnal dot gov (Mike Uchima) Subject: Jeff Berlin & Bruford Dominique Stehelin asks: > Someone talked about 4 album of Bruford (the band) with J. Berlin. I know > One of a kind, feels good to me and gradually going tornado but what is the > fourth? That would be the live album _The Bruford Tapes_. I believe it was released between OoaK and GGT (has John Clark instead of Holdsworth on guitar). BTW, the Kazumi Watanabe albums (which were also mentioned in passing) that feature Bruford & Berlin are _Spice of Life_ and _Spice of Life Too_. The first one is pretty good, even somewhat Crimson-esque in places; the sequel is only so-so (has its moments though), and IMO seems to suffer from a bit of "sophomore slump syndrome"... -- Mike Uchima -- uchima at fnal dot gov [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 15:00:55 CST From: jlyons at ipc23 dot rad dot rpslmc dot edu (Jack Lyons) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 To the Band, For a great tour; Having caught an early show, then the last, these men have developed remarkably together, combining superb talent into a sum that is more that its' parts. Fine selection of tunes, even "Free as a Bird". Thanks, Adrian. You're right, Tony. That guy in the yellow jacket was making quite a racket, nad the other guy just kept prvoking him. And the guy in the middle came out of the dark and seemed to be having a fine time. Here's one long-time fan looking forward to next year, Thanks! Jack Lyons jlyons at ipc23 dot rad dot rpslmc dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:04:54 -0800 From: mopix at sirius dot com (Michael Harrison) Subject: The Guitar as Orchestra Hello out there, I'll skip right to the point: The track entitled *alfred hitchcock's "strangers on a train" starring robert walker* is stunning and wowing. Way to go Adrian! There is a lot of wondrous music in this volume 1 and, according to the notes included with the CD, volume 2 is not too far off in the future. This is a good period for Mr. Belew (IMHO). > The instrumentals still shredded, though. At one point Fripp broke >through the > mix playing something so nasty I nearly wet myself. Somehow this posting conjured up a routine for me of the vetran (yet emotional) Crimso fan, pulling on the adult protective undergarment with a sigh of familiar resignation just before stepping out to the show. "Damn solos..."... A *Free As A Bird* note: The demo was not so rare, and was/is downloadable via the internet. You can hear John sing the part that one hears Paul singing on the redone version. Go to the *Obvious Moose* (http://www.moosenet.com/index.html) While you're there, check out the Mike Keneally page and his interview with Adrian Belew. BTW Mike Keneally was ,like Adrian, a Zappa guitarist/vocalist, and is making tremendous original music these days on his own & with the band called Z. Thanks to all Crimso concert review posters, the readins been good round here. Michael [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 16:07:21 EDT From: boganp at alpha dot montclair dot edu Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 First of all, I laughed my ass off (and that's a lot to laugh off ;) ) at Tony Levin's post on this ET. Second, I've mentioned (off the list) to several people that I'd pay good money to see a Fripp-Metheny collaboration (besides the fact that I've always wondered what each would do with the others' customary rhythm section; picture Pat with PM, BB, TG and TL, and/or picture Fripp with Paul Wertico, Pedro Aznar, David Blamires, Mark Ledford, et al...). I think their unique approaches to their music would both complement and temper each other nicely. Paul (just my 2 cents' worth) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:46:03 -0600 From: kikor at interaccess dot com (kikor) Subject: Re: Re: Quizz >Someone talked about 4 album of Bruford (the band) with J. Berlin. I know >One >of a kind, feels good to me and gradually going tornado but what is >the fourth? Hi. You're probably referring to the live album "The Bruford Tapes" on Editions EG (# EGS106), featuring Bruford, Dave Stewart (no, not *that* one), John Clark & my *SECOND* favorite bassist, Jeff Berlin...hope this helps. -frank [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 16:52:31 -0500 (EST) From: James Poulakos Subject: KC "not a band for television" Eric, you may be right in one sense, but I was lucky to have discovered KC in the early 80s via the boob tube. Sure, a new friend of mine was trying to turn me on to this album by the guy who played cool guitar fills on the Talking Heads' _Remain in Light_, but I wasn't sophisticated enough to dig Belew's guitar innovation until... ..one night in the early, early 80s I was watching a late-nite comedy show [Q: was it Saturday Night Live or the long defunct show with "Friday" in the name?] and when the band came on, I shot bolt upright and stood in front of the tv. The camera closed in on Levin playing what I know now is a Stick, my mouth was hanging open, I don't even remember connecting the sounds Adrian was making with the motions of his guitar playing, but the squeaky, air-spurting-from-pinched-balloon sound of Fripp's solo nailed me. The song was "Elephant Talk." I don't remember what else they played on that broadcast--after all these years it's as easy for me to imagine them doing "Sheltering Sky" or "Indiscipline," but I think it was "Frame by Frame." Wow, I was knocked out. Suddenly I wanted to know more about these people, how they made those sounds and that music....of course my friend said "I told ya so, etc." ANd of course I borrowed his LP of Discipline, _Remain in Light_ and _Lone Rhino_ until he demanded them back. [BTW, know where the -Lone Rhino- can be had on CD?] and I had to buy my own. I figured the whole music scene would be knocked out by this performance, but I soon found out that not many had even noticed, and we know the story since. Anybody else here see this broadcast? What show was that? ------------------------------------------------------------------- - Diese Nachricht besteht aus recyclebaren gluecklichen Elektronen - My home page is now at http://www.gsu.edu/~engjcp/zero.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ James Poulakos [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:07:59 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: The band to watch Hi all With the Crimson tour over, the band to watch is the unsigned Toronto band, Rob Torkelson's Armada Featuring Herman Menderchuck performing their monster indy release "Trampoline Girl" :-) CV [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 17:21:46 -0500 From: PossProd at aol dot com Subject: Correction Dear ET'ers, Sorry for the second version. I was quickly informed I had left out the video catalog number and price. Also, hours afterward I found I had received Daryl Hall's "Sacred Songs" and I wanted to pass that along. Thanks again, Mark Perry. We have some new catalog items that might be of interest. First, we have the new King Crimson CD single, "Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream" with the unreleased (Live)"Walking On Air" and the Frippertronics piece "Silent Night". Second, we have Adrian's incredible new CD "The Guitar As Orchestra". We also have the classic McDonald & Giles CD and Daryl Hall's CD "Sacred Songs" from Japan. Next comes Camilla's Little Secret CD " The Steps" with Toyah Willcox's famous husband,"Bobby", on guitar. We also have their Limited Edition(of 500) black cover vinyl 12" version of "Tantalizing Eyes" with the 4 different guitar solos.( When you play the record, you get one of two guitar solos on each side. It is double grooved and impossible to tell which solo you will get). We have the 2CD ambient collection "Swarm of Drones" with the exclusive Robert Fripp track "2000 II" . We have Trap Door's "Flying Discs of Luv", (with special guest Trey Gunn) doing their own style of Intergallactic bump music. Last, but not least, we have a limited amount of the video "Careful With That Axe" in US VHS format. These were made for Robert on the 1991 League of Crafties tour of Europe and mistakenly manufactured in the US format. There are only 100 or so available and the custom cover is a cross between the RF & LOCG "Live" and "Show of Hands". If you have never seen this, the Guitar Craft portion is excellent and the live "Easy Money" from 1974 will have you wanting more. The Europa String Choir and Gitbox Rebellion CDs will be available near January 23, 1996, their release date. No dates have been set for the live League of Gentlemen and Volumes 1 and 3 of soundscapes or the Gates of Paradise. Toyah's album "Ophelia's Shadow" is out of print at this time on CD. We have a 100 or so cassettes available. Work is being done on a live King Crimson video from the Japan tour last October. Hopefully, that will come about early next year. I'm always looking for simple, clever ideas for merchandise. Ideas of value. What is it that you want? What would be a fair price ? Two ideas that really don't need mentioning are - 1) Crimson video or 2) Archival live recordings [they're coming !]. Mark Perry Possible Productions(PossProd at aol dot com) New items, catalog #'s, prices. ( If anyone needs the whole catalog with all of our shipping information, please email) $ 5.99 0128CD Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream - with live Walking on Air & Silent Night ala Frippertronics - QTY____ $ 6.99 0413CD Toyah-Ophelia's Shadow (cassette only)QTY____ $12.99 0421CD Camilla's Little Secret - "The Steps" - QTY____ $ 8.99 0422EP Camilla's Little Secret"TantalizingEyes"QTY____ $11.50 1007CD Adrian Belew-" The Guitar As Orchestra"-QTY____ $23.00 1301CD McDonald & Giles (Japan only import) - QTY____ 11.50/6.99 1302CD/CA Trap Door - "Flying Discs of Luv" - QTY____ $24.99 0420V Careful with that Axe-Robert Fripp - QTY____ $26.99 0424CD Daryl Hall - "Sacred Songs" (Jpn. imp.) - QTY____ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 18:31:13 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: What BB's Doing In B'Boom I asked a few issues back what Bill Bruford is playing in the first half of B'Boom. (The second half is a rather constant pattern in 6 -- see the Modern Drummer article for the pattern.) I have gotten a few posts as to what people think. In the Modern Drummer article PM says that he think BB is playing an hourglass-type thing: 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,4,5,6... But this does not seem to be the case at all. Someone suggested that it was two measures of 7, two of 5, and one of 3 (I think that's what he said). Some else suggested that it was like THRAK, only reversed -- PM plays in 5 while Bill's in 7. I know that this cannot be the case -- PM is definitely playing in 3 the whole time (a two-bar pattern). So, with all this information, when I find the time I'm going to sit down, give the song a really good listen, and post the results. I may do the same with the two versions of B'Boom on B'BOOM. Of course, there may be no pattern -- he may just be working by intuition. I imagine that he may not maintain a pattern during every show, or that he only uses the pattern as a general framework upon which he improvises. My .02. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Craig Dickson Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 15:45:03 -0800 (PST) TonyLevin at aol dot com writes: |I saw the last show of the tour, in Chicago on Nov. 29th, and |unfortunately, the guy behind me was making a RACKET. He started banging on |things before I even got there - (I missed the first song) and he hardly |ever stopped through the whole show. Really ruined it for me. [...] Yeah, isn't that guy annoying? He seems to show up at *every* Crimso gig these days... I think his name's Bruford, or something that like that. :-) "Peter" writes: |This is in response to those who said they broke a lot of strings trying to |get into the Fripp tuning. I used the same old strings on the lower three, |replaced the old G (the third string) with a B string tuning down a whole |step, replaced the second string with a regular high E (.09 or .10), and |used a .08 (the thinnest thing I could find) for the G on the first string. |I like this setup because four of the strings are downtuned, allowing for |wider bends. The only problem is that the high G is sort of tight- I broke |a few by bending them too far, but you can tune up with no need to worry. If you have a steel-stringed guitar (as opposed to nylon) you can buy guitar strings individually at whatever diameter you want. Buy an extra-light high E string (.008) for the high G, the heaviest string you can find for the low C, and for the intermediate strings, try to find a sequence that gives you a fairly consistent variation in thickness across the neck. You will probably find that this results in more consistent tension than you get by just substituting one or two of the strings. Bradley Stewart Cook writes: |To those of you in the Dallas area I was at a Half Price Books where they |had 3 copies of Tamm's Fripp book left for 6 bucks each. I don't know if |that was a really great deal or how hard the book is to find but if you |want the location of the 1/2 Price Books then email me. I think Tamm's Fripp book is out of print now. His book on Eno, however, has been reprinted by a company in New York (the name of which escapes me at the moment). Craig [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 19:19:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Nils A. Guttenplan" Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Scary- I just heard Dinosaur doctored to say Greaseman on his syndicated US radio program... I am shivering from the sacrelige. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 19:20:21 -0500 From: MatrickIV at aol dot com Subject: Re: In the Wake of a Picture. Thanks for the response to my post on Pictures of a City. Its funny because my roomate (who likes Crimson, but isn't a fanatic) thinks that Pictures of a City sounds too much like 21 st CSM. However, I have never thought of IWofTP to be a sound alike for ItCoftCK. I do agree that Pictures of a City uses some of the same structural ideas as 21 st CSM, but as Tony Levin put it in a recent interveiw "if your King Crimson you can expect to accomplish everything you want to do in one album." This is how I veiw PofaC. True, the song uses a similar structure to 21st csm, particularly with its tightly executed break down section and crash and burn outro. However, the song itself is even more intricate that 21 st csm, which is very complex. I feel that RF was just expanding on his ideas from 21 st csm. My point being, yes it uses similar structure, but paints a different veiw musically. Also note that RF often expands upon his ideas w/ different musically interpretations of a musical idea. Take Red for example, it contains many of the elements in which RF was developing w/ SandBB and LTiA. Note that on Thrak There is Vroom and Vroom Vroom and each has a corresponding Coda (Marine ect..). Note that Vroom Vroom has a similar bass solo section to the one in the Song red. I could go on, but I think you all know what I mean. Not that RF regurgitates old material, but rather he developes something new and original and takes it as far as he can for what it is worth. As for the rest of the album IWoftP it dosen't seem to follow the same flow as IthCourtof the CK from what I hear, particularly on side two. Cat Food is totaly unlike anything on the first album. Plus the mellotron pieces like Garden of the Worm are not for the weak of ear or people w/ heart conditions. This stuff if very heavy and intense and not very commercially accesible. This album also shows signs of Crimsons move to farther out of the mainstream. Lizard and Islands are probably less commercial than any other Crimson I can think of. I do agree though that when your talking Crimson and comparing albums w/ each other its like comparing A Mercedies to a BMW or a Porsche to a Miada or something. Its basically becomes a matter of personal taste. However, when comparing Crimson to different bands it is usually like comparing a Ford Pinto to a Ferrari. Know what I mean? Anywho, Thanks for the response, please send me more. Peace...........a theme. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 95 19:42:48 EST From: John Ambrose Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Hi... I'm very interested in getting some of Robert Fripp's Frippertronics/Soundscapes albums. I think he's a genius, and he's totally revolutionized the world of rock guitar. I'm also a big fan of Vangelis, Ray Lynch, Jean-Michael Jarre, and Jonn Serrie, so I'm dying to get some of RF's Soundscapes stuff. My question is: What album(s) would you recommend? Also, how can I get them? (I assume I can't pick them up in my neighborhood Sam Goody.) Please e-mail me privately, as per Toby's request. Thanks! --John jambrose at eden dot rutgers dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 08:21:35 -0500 From: kfa at orpsparcc dot cnet dot att dot com (Kurt F. Angel) Subject: Bruford/Holdsworth/Berlin Trio I just read a personal reply from an ET'er that mentioned a perhaps one time performance or jam by Bruford, Holdsworth, and Berlin. Does anyone have any other information concerning this event? The trio opened for the Dregs at "My Father's Place" many years ago. I have Bruford's live CD, "The Bruford Tapes" which was recorded at "My Father's Place". I believe that John Clark was the guitar player. If this trio did exist, it must have been an incredible show. I know Rod Morganstein and I will ask him about it. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:29:53 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: OOOPS I thought that I would be collecting a discography of Tony Levin's work, but I just hopped over to the ET web page and found a full discography there. Silly me. I won't then be posting a discography -- if you're interested like me you should check out the web site. Having figured out that great pattern in 6 on B'Boom, I have decided that I must buy a Bruford solo album. The problem: which one should I buy? I would buy all of them, but I'm unfortunately not that rich, so I need help on choosing an album. Update on figuring out BB in the first half of B'Boom: I think he accents the first note of each measure (each step) on a low tom, and the snare accent comes in the middle somewhere. Gonna keep working on this. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Paolo Valladolid Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #248 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 22:53:28 -0800 (PST) > I know this letter detracts somewhat from the already suffering S/N ratio, > but I can't help but feel that other people must share my frustration. I'd > hate to lose contact with the community, and I'd REALLY hate to lose > insight into upcoming releases and the occasional contribution from any of > the Crimson or Crimson-related musicians. I just can't justify the > significant portion of my time that is now required to sift through > everything else to get to that content and the occasionally interesting > insight provided by the fans. I tried to start a thread on group improvisation, which seems to be an important part of life in Crimson. Not only improvising with musical notes; but with sound as well. Someone did contact me by email offering to have a discussion with me on the matter but he never replied to my reply. Yes, I've read the book _Improvisation: Its Nature and Practice In Music_ but I really wanted to correspond with people who are dealing with it on the front lines right *now*. Oh well. > Many of you may quikly cast off this suggestion. However, I feel strongly > that Fripp and Pat Metheny (jazz guitarist) should work together on a > project. Each guitarist has a background and tradition as opposite as the > > Jay Jones > jazzin12 at aol dot com What I've observed in other musicians is they study those who came before them, take some of their ideas, add some of their own, then mix it all into a new creative brew. Fripp himself stated, "What if I took Jimi Hendrix's visceral electric power and combined it with the compositional sensibilities of Bela Bartok?" Of course he did this and so much more ultimately in creating his own music. So what is likely to happen is some young hotshot guitarist who admires the works of both Fripp and Metheny will take something from both and create something new from them while adding the necessary seasoning in the form of his/her own originality. Metheny usually looks to other jazz musicians for collaborations rather than people in the "rock" world (with the exceptions of David Bowie and Bruce Hornsby, a jazz pianist masquerading as a singer/songwriter). But then if he could end up working with David Bowie on The Falcon And The Snowman soundtrack I suppose anything could happen. But really, I think the emergence of the young hotshot described above is more likely, if it hasn't happened already. -- Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado at waynesworld dot ucsd dot edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 02:08:32 -0500 From: Nel3 at aol dot com Subject: Levin studio gigs/Other stickees/obscure Crimsalumni/4th of Bruford Leving studio gigs: Tony has played on Judy Collins' albums. BTW, no offense to boganp@alpa (ET247), but I thought Steps Ahead's NYC album was crap - jazz/pop fodder. I was extremely disappointed because I bought it for Levin. Better try Earthworks instead! Other stickees: Folks who dote on stick players might be interested to hear Fergus Marsh's work on several Bruce Cockburn albums. He particularly shines on the 1990 Live album which is done in a power trio format - el gtr, stick and drums - especially on a song called "Tibetan Side of Town" where he pulls off some riffs reminiscent of Tony's manic stuff "On The Air" of the Peter Gabriel Live cd. Obscure Crimsalumni: Anyone ever listen to any Julie Tippets (Driscoll - now heard singing the AbFab theme, I believe) solo stuff. One that I used to have featured, her husband, of course, Keith, plus Marc Charig and others >from the Lizard era. Seems like Fripp might have guested on a song or two... been a LONG time, (been a long lonely lonely lonely time)...hard to recall.... damn the 60s anyway.... 4th of Bruford: For Dominque/Olivier - the fourth album by Bruford (the group) was The Bruford Tapes - a live concert of the group (unfortunately w/the unknown John Clark replacing Alan Holdsworth)... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:20:22 -0500 From: 74762 dot 304 at compuserve dot com Subject: NYC 11/20-11/22 Some comments about the NYC 11/20-11/22 shows. I'm sorry that this is long, but it does cover 3 shows. Please note that the last comment is not true. 1. Having seen a great KC show in June, I agree that these shows were a level beyond that. So much so, I can not listen to B'Boom Live or any boots from mid-95 -- they just don't measure up. PLEASE RELEASE ANOTHER OFFICIAL BOOTLEG! 2. Only on Monday did they do "Free as a Bird", which was very well received. Does this constitute the only time that KC has covered someone else's song? 3. Only on Tuesday did they not do 3oaPP. I don't think another song was substituted for it, making this a shorter show. 4. All 3 nights had great improvs during THRAK, but Monday's was special. Sandwiched between the dark THRAK riff was a soft, spacey improv that would have been right at home on SaBB. It was so mesmerizing, that even during the quiet passages, there were no audience shouts. Creamy middle sandwiched by rich darkness -- I think KC produced the aural equivalent of an Oreo! THIS PERFORMANCE MUST BE RELEASED!! please? 5. On Monday, during his wood block solo in B'Bish, Bruford dropped both sticks. The audience moaned with such empathy, you'd think that their child had just forgotten his lines in the school play. Bill, smiling and with his head thrown back, retrieved his sticks and continued without a hitch. On Tuesday, as they came back on stage to do B'Bish, Mastelotto, walking behind Bruford, pointed to him and said that he drops his sticks. On Tuesday, Pat B'Bished on a stage monitor and Wednesday, on a drum stand. 6. All three nights, during what was originally the viola passage of Red, at one point Adrian added an extra bit of vibrato with a syncopated hip sway. Tony Levin perfectly mirrored this musically and physically to everyone's delight. 7. On Monday, a moment after they finished playing ET, Bill played a roll and the group quickly went back into ET for another minute. On Tuesday, Bill waited until Adrian and Tony started to slip off their instruments and went into the same roll. The reprise came off without a miss. 8. Some people posted gripes about the ticket prices for the Longacre Theater. On the other side of the coin, this theater was newly renovated and seated only 1096. The sound was great and the performances intimate. 9. A highlight each night was the extended duet between Bruford and Levin on the intro to Indiscipline. 10. I was going to post a notion that Red and LTIA2 should be retired in favor of One More Red Nightmare and LTIA1. But after seeing these shows, I've changed my mind. These two live war-horses have been totally revitalized. 11. KC live is like a 3 (6?) ring circus: you don't know where to look first. However, if you could only see Levin for the duration of the show, you would be highly entertained. 12. VROOOM VROOOM is now played at a faster tempo and sounds great. 12. Each night, Fripp came out and introduced the band by saying said, "Hi! I'm King Crimson and these are my Coconuts!" Aloha, Ringo G. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jacek Krywult Date: Sat, 02 Dec 95 10:06:16 +0100 Subject: Re : McDonald & Giles J.Czajka wrote : > I need some information about lp. "McDonald & Giles" and "Earthbound" on > CD. I heard that there are available only in Japan. Yes. It was released only in Japan. Earthbound was also released as a bootleg with additional tracks from 73-74 period. I heard that there will be Earthbound II in 1996. You may try in MegaDisk shop in Warsaw. They had McDonald & Giles - price 85zl. But when I was in Warsaw the disk was sold. I bought only one bootleg "Atmosphere" ( 46zl ). Best regards Jacek dot Krywult at p17 dot f3 dot n484 dot z2 dot fidonet dot org Gliwice - POLAND [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 12/02/95 From: Stick at earthlink dot net (Stick Enterprises, Inc.) Subj.: Tapping Here and There Sorry for the defensive posture taken here but I'd like to tell all ET correspondents there is no truth to the comments posted to this list on 17 November about what I might be thinking and feeling about other artists. It was stated, "It gets ugly at times ... Chapman would be quite incensed at the thought that Trey is playing Stick - he is now in the enemy camp ... It's actually getting rather silly, and sad..." This is far from the truth. Trey Gunn is a serious and accomplished artist who mainly uses a two-handed fretboard tapping method I created and taught to others, including guitarists, that of both hands oriented equally at right angles to the neck enabling a full and normal fingering technique in each hand independently. This discovery came in 1969 on my home-made, low action, 9-string guitar before I invented, designed and trade named "The Stick", or "The Electric Stick" as it was known in the early '70s. I toured U.S. music stores and colleges for some ten years teaching this basically new and powerful method of scalar and melodic fingering with both hands simultaneously, showing guitarists how to tune in 4ths as on The Stick melody side and how to set up their guitars for tapping. I appeared on "What's My Line" in 1974 playing several choruses and improvisations of the Beatles' "Yesterday" using this method on my first Stick production model. Trey Gunn primarily plays this technique, and whichever instrument he chooses to play it on is of course up to him. I'm a musician and performer too and would never impose my instrument on anyone. As for the above mentioned post's negative characterizations of the Stickwire e-mail discussion group itself, I'd invite anyone interested to take a look at the Stickwire Web page and associated mail list as well as archives at the following addresses: To view the Stickwire Web page, the address is: http://clever.net/stick/stickwire The Stick e-mail discussion group at listserv at netcom dot com (with your message containing only: subscribe stickwire-L) Stickwire archives at: http://www.crl.com/~gdgreen/archives.html or at: http://www.twics.com/~hoshino/digestcoverpage.html I think you'd find Stickwire topics to be interesting, full of musical ideas and teachings, and for the most part good-spirited. All the Best, Emmett Chapman [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 16:08:15 -0500 From: arhumes at bcn dot net (Andrew R. Humes) Subject: Eric Tamm I am searching for Eric Tamm, reknowned author and King Crimson/Robert Fripp expert. Reach me at arhumes at bcn dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:02:32 -0500 From: 74762 dot 304 at compuserve dot com Subject: An Odd Live Track There is a live instrumental track on the boot "A Weird Person's Guide to KC, Volume 1" that bears discussion. Although recorded sometime in 1971, it starts with the opening of LTiAp3 (1984), has a bit of LTiAp1 (1973) and jams on pieces of Lament (1974). Supposedly, it was only performed once. It is very enjoyable to hear, in spite of its horrible sound quality and the *long* Ian Wallace drum solo that ends the track. It never ceases to amaze me how musicians can tuck away a musical idea for use much later. An example of this is how Pink Floyd's "Us and Them" (1973) was first an unrecorded instrumental played live on their 1970 tour. This KC track is a far more amazing example. When Fripp opens the vault for "Earthbound 2" (as mentioned in the tour program), lets hope this track is included! -Ringo G. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 19:30:03 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: More on B'Boom, Frylvian/Sipp I've done a bit more work trying to figure out that first half of B'Boom. Not much luck. I'm relatively certain that each measure (or step) Bill starts with an accent on the low tom (or kick drum) and then fills the middle with varying snare accents. But knowing this does not make it any easier to figure. I tried listening to the two versions of the song on B"BOOM, but no luck. The first version is very little like the version on THRAK (although the second part of the song is very much the same), and the patterns seem to have less order. The second version seems to be much more similar to the THRAK version (except that it doesn't have a second half, it just leads straight into Thrak). Note that on both songs Pat seems to be playing a constantly rolling changing pattern on woods (?) -- something not in the THRAK version. I'm rather inclined to think that the pattern metrically declines and then inclines, like PM says in the Modern Drummer article (9,8,6,5,4,3,4,5,etc.). But I'm still not entirely certain. Am I just babbling? Is anyone else but me interested in this? And if you are, could you please help me out somehow? I must once again thank the person who posted Gunn's parts (I'm sorry, I'm horrible with remembering names). Everything is much clearer now [the rain is gone...]. I get the impression that the really dirty sound that the band seems to have now (exemplified by the constant pounding chords in Thrak and Vroom) is due to Gunn's doubling of other parts (or others' doubling of his parts). Just bought _The First Day_. Wow wow. Wow. Couple of questions, though: when is the percussionist playing? I can only hear him distinctly on one song ("Darsha") on congas. And the last song -- is that a soundscape with both Davie and Robbie? Its really incredible, and if they're both playing I'll be that much more astounded that they blend the sounds that well. A drum, and drum, Bill Bruford doth come.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 03 Dec 95 19:41:50 EST From: michael jeter Subject: Pinky&The Brain as KC II I amd not sure how well this will translate in the UK and elsewhere, but here in america, we have a cartoon series developed by Steven Spielberg called "Pinky & The Brain" in which a paur of ....sorry, pair of,... mutant lab mice try to take over the world. "Pinky" is a complete idiot who does the grunt work. The Brain is a meglomaniacal genius. I have become addicted to the show, and mention it for this reason: Boz as Pinky and Robert as the Brain. Discuss. Already awaiting the Summer 96 tour, I remain Michael Jeter [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 20:23:04 -0500 From: CptnApathy at aol dot com Subject: Django Bates plays Hendrix While browsing through Best Buy, I happened to find a new CD Hendrix tribute out. It's called "Christy Doran - Freddy Studer - Phil Milton - Django Bates - Amin Ali Play the Music of Hendrix.' I didn't write down the setlist, but it pretty much has some of the standard Hendrix tunes. Those of you familiar with Bill Bruford's Earthworks will recognize Mr. Django Bates as the horn/keyboard player. So now we know what some of the Earthworks members do during during their time off. Anyway, it's out on Intuition Records. Just passing this along. --Jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 23:25:19 -0500 From: ai644 at detroit dot freenet dot org (Barry A. Lonik) Subject: GIG REVIEWS (AND OTHER FODDER) Several comments after having seen the recent Detroit and Chicago KC gigs, my seventh and eighth of 1995. The CGT set was considerably different this tour from last. There were several new tunes, including Beethoven's Fifth and a new one by Paul. Those who remarked in ET #248 that it was the same were way wrong. These guys are driven to continue striving for creative expression as much as Crimso. In Detroit, when KC lauched into THRAK, everyone played softly for some time then faded out as Adrian continued to play his guitar sounding like a piano. He then sang "Free as a Bird" before they went back into the improvisation. It was as if they were cruising through uncharted space and came upon a time warp of Lennon's music, drifted through it and back into space. Very very cool. Sent shivers down my spine. By the way, for those who said Ade forgot the words, he said after the Chi. gig that he had only heard the demo of the song, in which John had not yet written all the words (they played the night the new version was aired), so AB's rendition was true to Lennon's demo right down to the humming (it was made right after he returned from the successful ruling by the Immigration and Naturalization Service). That's the only version I've heard as well, so I knew exactly what he was doing. I also got chills when they did the percussion trio toward the end. Adrian said it was called "Prism" and was written by someone else and adapted by Bill for the Crim show. Very very intense. Definitely great drumming in this tour. I thought Fripp's part in Chicago's THRAK sounded like Prince Rupert's Lament from Lizard. Anyone else? I actually got to tell Fripp that the band was a great inspiration for those of us who seek to be continually creative in our lives. Even through eight shows, I found lots of new sounds, parts and insights. They clearly all appreciate the uniqueness of their arrangement, and I suspect they'll stay with it for some years to come. See y'all next Summer in the sheds. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 21:51:45 -0700 (MST) From: "ERIC D. DIXON" Subject: Pipeline Hi all: I'm four issues behind in my ET reading, so this may have already been corrected, but -- the CGT *don't* perform the theme from Pulp Fiction (unless they've changed their repertoire since the last three times I saw them). They perform "Pipeline" by the Ventures, which sounds sorta like the theme from Pulp Fiction in a couple of places. The title is right there on the first CGT, for anyone to read. The Pulp Fiction theme (I don't recall the real title), by Dick Dale, is a completely different song. Eric D. Dixon eric at du2 dot byu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin) Subject: Bill is back/quizz 2 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:31:28 +0100 (MET) Ok folks, Olivier Malhomme speaking again. Thanks to everyone who took care to answer my "Bruford" quizz. Since it appears my message was a little bit messed up, I have an other question that remained unanswered: I know 4 albums of M. Karn: Titles, Dreams of reason produce monters, Bestial cluster, and the last wich is the tooth mother. What I have been reading in this deleted list, is that there was two others: Loose tube, and open letter. Any info? Did I miss something? OOOh, now that I think I need your help. For some reason, I felt in love with Bowie's outside, but, surprise, surprise, it is very difficult for me to follow easily the lyrics (voice highly "Eno-processed") If someone can tell me what are saying those voices alone and pitch- shifted in between the pieces, cause I can't figure out. (need to work my english...) So here is the next part of this Bruford interview (sorry if it took so long...) I don't even remember if it is part 4 or 5 Q: Like in the eighties, where you contributed to promote electronic drums withK.C. and Earthworks? B.B.: I spent quite a time with earthworks and my electronic drum. Future of MIDI inlive situation was a big bet of the beginning of the eighties. I played the game with Earthworks. I went as far as someone can go as far as composing and improvising is concerned, with drums that could for the first time give access to melody and chords. It was an orgy of technology. Enthralling! Finally, it was vain promisses. Yet, I was the perfet guy for this kind of experiment, because I a have always heard the drums melodically. Today, I turn the page, because I'm not going to do melodic stuff in K.C. because with 6 musicians, it is useless. Anyway, I'm still using a lot electronics based sounds. I've always used electronics in a way that enhanced timbral, attack, and contrast qualities of the sound. For every one, electronic is automatic which it is not, and cold, wich it shoulnot be. Q: What has been pushing you to experiment electronics to this point in a jazz context rather than in a rock context. B.B.: Rock implies there is a singer. With a singer it sounds rock, and withoutit sounds jazz. With rock, you enter a commercial circuit, a jazz quartett as access to european festival, where it is admited that you are going to present whatever you want. By jazz, I mean a place where something happens. In general, rock is a world where nothing happens, it's a world of old ideas, it is a commercial organisation. Q: How do you consider your career, for those 25 years. Do you notice obvious changes in your playing? B.B.: I think I changed a little, during these years. I'm not someone who acquire skills, like a hunter makes scars on his gun. I do not acquire skills for skills. If there is something I want to do, I try to find a way to do it. I've learnt the skills I needed, retaining the ones essential to the expressionof my personnality, and I throwed away the (superflu). I been quitting groups that offered me a career for life like Yes, Genesis, or U.K. (note from me: U.K. was a f####g goog band, but a career for life, well in view of the sells, I doubt). I play what I want to play, without caring about money (hey, it's a lucky guy), and no one is going to get rich with K.C. I loe this group. It is one of my favorite, was I in or not. It is the band in wich I have played my more determining drum parts. It is also one of the last places where you can play drums as you want to. Nowadays, playing drums consist in giving one's labesatisfaction. Rocdrummers. For someone like me, there is few bands I would like to be in, and few who would like to have me (I'm sure fellows, we would have tons of propositions, If you could afford enough talent). K.C. is one of these few groups, and when you are given such a possibility, you jump on it. Any drummer would give it's eyes to play in such a band. R. Fripp has always prevented K.C. to become a "earning" band (I did not know exactly how to translate it for a band making money) because he did not want the music industry to interfere, and imposing it's "diktat". K.C. sells between 300 000 and 400 000 records, and that is all. That is making us more free (freeer? Whoops, I'm lost). You can be influencial without being a big seller, and I am more interested in the former. What I am interesting in is offering the drummer community other ideas, to see how they find balance between art and alimentary (I now speak for myself: Not only drummer community. I learnt a lot as guitar/bass/Stick and Keys player about time, rythm, groove, a drum arranging wth the guy, although not being a drummer). See you next post Since I sem to have my messages messed up those times, if you notice a problem, temm tell me... Olivier [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Wernigg Robert" Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:04:42 +100 Subject: Guitar sound on Great Deceiver? Anybody any idea how to produce the RF sound on Great Deceiver? I've spent quite a few months trying to get it on my guitar, but I never could. [ Please respond to the poster directly, not to ET. -- Thanks Toby] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is (Orn Orrason) Subject: General thoughts about KC Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:52:15 +0000 (GMT) Dear readers Now that the year of big activity is over I will attempt to put together the results of KC discussions 1. KC is about "getting high on music". With KC you should be able to connect your self to a) your inner self and therefore b) higher sources of inspiration 2. The question is , does the the record THRAK achive the first paragraph? 3. Does live audition of KC achieve the first paragraph? 4.Robert can be like he is. a) after concerts he can be alone. We are there for the concert not for the "after the concert" b) Rober originates from another galaxy. c) After good concert is like after a good football game I personally would like to be alone after a good football 5. KC is a unique thing in the music world. It should not be classified "prog rock". Leave that to Asia. 6. KC touches the darker side of your self. 7. A KC fan is alone. No friends of him nor his wife understands him. ET is the only forum for him. 8. ET is growing too big. I can not work any more. Thanks for the reading. ************************************************************** * * * Orn Orrason - Electronic Engineer * * University of Iceland - Systems Engineering lab * * Tel +354 525 4703 Fax +354 525 4937 em: ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is * * * ************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 18:44:06 GMT From: sheehanm at rosnet dot strose dot edu (Michael Sheehan) Hello all. First off I'd like to apologize for my nasty post some weeks ago regarding Fripp's attitude toward fans. I ascribed some rather negative things to his character which in essence I have no way of knowing the truth of. So, although I like to feel I would act differently toward my fans, I can't fault him for his approach (or retreat) from them. So, this is in essence a public apology for a public outburst in the forum where the latter took place, on the off-chance Mr. Fripp's looking in. I gave a lot of thought to the whole question of Mr. Fripp's reaction to a previous poster, and spent some time poring over some of what he's written on the subject of performance, relationship between performer, perfromance and audience, and though I am not in total agreement with his decisions, it is neither my role or right to be--and as he has clearly come to these attitudes as a result of personal struggle, self-examination and rational thought I can't fault him for that. That said--and sorry for the waste of badnwidth, Toby, but this is the only apropos place for the above--my interest, now rekindled, in Guitar Crafty, has no outlet. A call to the numbers referred to in Fripp's Introduction to Guitar Craft yield only a puzzled secretary and an address which she thinks is accurate in California. (The secretary was most pleasant however.) No phone number. Email to Possible Productions will, I trust, be returned in time, but this list surely can provide the answer. ANy Crafties care to share their wisdom with an interested novice guitarist? Any Crafties, indeed, in the Albany area of New York? Any official word on the status/structure of GC with Robert on tour? Any information, by private email please, will be greatly appreciated. The repentant, Michael Sheehan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Fred Raimondi" Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:01:21 -0800 Subject: The Bruford Book I woulqd like to get a copy of the Bruford Book, "When in Doubt, Roll". If anybody out ther knows of a store that has one or can pick one up for me that would be great. I understand it is out of print, but you never know. Please contact me via privately as to not clog the digest. Thanx in advance. Fred Raimondi -- ############################################################################# # Fred Raimondi 310 314 2809 Office "Women and children can # # Digital Domain 213 917 5193 Pager afford to be careless... # # 300 Rose Ave fred at d2 dot com .........men cannot. # # Venice, CA 90291 #################################################### ############################################################################# [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Brian Thomson Subject: Tony Levin on Trace Elliot CD Date: Tue, 05 Dec 95 10:36:00 PST Trace Elliot are celebrating their 15th anniversary, and they've released a 17-track bassists' CD to celebrate. It opens with "Shandaken" by Tony Levin, which I've never heard of before - it's not on "World Diary". It's a gentle Stick / Music Man fretless 4 duet-with-himself - sorta reminds me of that old English song "And did these feet, in ancient times..."! (What's the Story, Tony?) I picked the CD up for UKP5 at the London Music Show (Wembley), and it also includes tracks by Mick Karn, Doug Wimbish, Nathan East, Guy Pratt, Mark King, TM Stevens, Jonas Hellborg, and Steve Harris (with Iron Maiden) - basically all TE's high-profile endorsers... Brian Thomson London (please add usual no-relation-to-Trace-Elliot disclaimers here... well, I do have one of their amps...) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:39:29 -0500 From: goneal at freenet dot vcu dot edu (Gene O'Neal) Subject: Sit Down, Shut Up, Listen, Enjoy!] hello Crimsoheads another one for your holiday lists "Sit Down, SHut Up, Listen, Enjoy!" its from Diamonds In Your Ear all I've read about it is that it captures them on their '95 tour AND the first 100 copies are pakaged in metal cases!!!! btw my copy of Manacured Noise is in and awaiting money so when i get it i'll post the usual info ...i looked at it and its recorded in Minneapolis, MN couldn't read the date but its off this tour so you can figure out of the tour list... take care all -- this Gene (Cinder) O'Neal night king crimson goneal at freenet dot vcu dot edu wounds loving old and sometimes new time progressive and alternative music [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:31:40 -0500 From: goneal at freenet dot vcu dot edu (Gene O'Neal) Subject: Fracture "import" well here it finally came in and bought Fracture recorded at the Felt Forum, NYC May 1,1974 made by Gold Standard Fracture Easy Money Improv The Nightwatch Dr.Diamond Starless The Talking Drum Lark's tongue in Aspic II. 21st Century Schizoid Man Total Disc Time 66min. Not too sure if this is a complete show...there is a fade out and in at the 46min mark (obviously for the tape to be flipped) not too bad audience recording ...i don't have a extensive live collection ...so i'm saying its a little muffled but satisfying..when you turn up your tone control a little crowd shouting at the beginning of the cd ..couldn't completely pick up RF's opening commentary to the crowd other than saying that in Akron, Oh .there was this lady who wanted to make a cast of his Gentilia !!! very amusing..haven't finished listening to the cd but i'll make a note about the improv. its 3 min long and very reminicent (sp?) of Daniel Dust from the GD box set...hope you find and enjoy -- this Gene (Cinder) O'Neal night king crimson goneal at freenet dot vcu dot edu wounds loving old and sometimes new time progressive and alternative music [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 02:50:02 -0700 From: dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu (lizard man) Subject: Bandwidth & Interviews Thanks Toby for presenting the "Expired List" at the beginning of the issues. If the signal-to-noise ratio and overall volume of ET don't improve soon, i will be forced to unsubscribe for lack of time to wade through the noise. Hopefully the list will help. We are experiencing growing pains, and although i am glad to see the increased interest in KC and their music, the quality of ET is certainly suffering for it. Hopefully the "Expired List" will help this. And a little bit of self-policing as well. The most important reason i have subscribed to Discipline...er, Elephant Talk since about two months after its inception, is to get advance information (and rumors) of album releases, tours, side projects, and the occasional pointer to other excellent and engaging music. The second reason is the insights into the music and the process of creating it: this comes by way of informed posts on music theory, articles on the music or the technology that creates it, stories of the bandmembers, and most importantly, interviews with the band members. The recent Bill Bruford interview was a good example of this. The posts regarding other products, both wanted and unwanted, (by this i refer to tickets, bootlegs, rare imports, videos, etc.) belong here due to the nature of the audience and subject matter. There is no other forum more uniquely suited to these sometimes desperate but usually well-meaning posts and requests. The occasional anecdote, personal experience (my small child likes KC, i once drove across 3 continents to see KC) and bandmember sighting (i saw Fripp eat a baloney sandwich) are sometimes amusing, and even cast light on the music (i saw Fripp retching tainted baloney in the alley behind the venue, that night's show was extremely dissonant) but seem to be making up the bulk of the posts lately and border on mindless worship. I could do with a few less of these, especially since you have to read at least one-third of each before you know if there's anything in it for you. Although Tony's brief post complaining about that loud guy behind him at the show was hilarious. And maybe made my point for me...? And the personal attacks i could do without completely. This isn't alt.flame. In fact, it's not USENET at all, and there's no browser to help me scan through a 1000-line issue of ET. So please, try to be brief (unlike this post...hmmm, i better shut up while i've still got a leg to stand on.) Concerning the difficulty of getting interviews with KC, as a college radio dj and longtime KC fan, i thought i was eminently qualified to do an interview on the last tour for our station. The music director tried hard to get me an interview through the normal record company channels, but finally came to me and said she was told, simply, that "God does not do interviews." And that was the last we spoke of it. And now that i've made my bandwidth-wasting contribution, i'll return to the shadows. --ObKC Content: Anybody else bothered as much as i am by the glitch at 2:57 in "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream" on B'Boom, or the clipping in the 2 sticks improv? And WHICH CD version of "Exposure" has the original LP version of Disengage? I know at least one of you has it.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 05 Dec 95 15:13:08 PST From: "Hoard, Chris" Subject: Al Gore describes how LSD occasionally causes bad Fripps... Hello Bandwidth Bulgers... Apologies, Toby -- portions of the following subject matter have been declared "off limits," but I must prosaically test my American 1st Amendment rights in the netherealm of cyber-ether. Anyway, I thought I'd share news releases I fancifully imagined appearing in the *12/5/2001* edition of that future global rag, the Daily Cybertimes: Re: Africa Suffers Most From KC Global Bandwidth Shortage Dar Es Salam, Tanzania - The immense quantities of data associated with an internet music fan digest, known as Elephant Talk, has apparently prompted the office of the UN Secretary General to propose that key security council members finance a global ISDN infrastructure upgrade. Commented UN Aide, General Mustafah Amin of Mauritania, "we're negotiating with the band (King Crimson) to undertake a global concert tour of third world nations in order to help finance our contributions required for the increased network bandwidth." Amin also alledges that an excess of demand for a bootleg video of concert footage from 1995's European "Thrak" tour caused a server outage that eliminated Internet access in sub-Saharan Africa for two weeks. Abu Ghamael, Egypt's UN Minister of Internet Communications described how Cairo University avoided a similar disaster, "We had problems with extreme Islamic elements bootlegging copies of the lattest KC CD off the net. Someone in the UK sent over a new kind of virus they called 'Groon' and it took out a bootleg CD replication plant in Alexandria. Our operators watched as the virus grew and headed straight for the offending server. We couldn't shut our network down fast enough, but fortunately we recovered with only a twenty minute outage. It is rumoured the virus was commissioned by Mr. Fripp himself. Well I suppose the English have had it out for us ever since we took back the Suez." Re: Garcetti's ET Splinter group aids Lurking Sad Devotees of KC Manchester, U.K. - Elephant Talk, hailed often as the largest, most respected, and oldest of all surviving Internet music digests, has now been threatenned by a splinter movement among its subscribers. New moderator Vroominous Thrak has apparently taken a hard line to 350 gigabyte monthly volume of posts concerning the impersonal antics of band leader Robert Fripp. Long-time subscriber, and former Los Angeles District Attorney Gil Garcetti has announced he will, "form a new internet digest, devoted to providing support for anyone who has ever had their dreams shattered by a rude encounter with Mr. Fripp." Apparently ever since Garcetti lost control of his Internet digest support group for World Citizens For an OJ Retrial, he's been searching for the right digest to lead in order to fill the void. Even U.S. President Al Gore has not been immune to getting involved in the controversey. "Bob and I have been acquaintances ever since the Beat tour, back in the 80s," says the President. "I've never known him to be rude. Now Tony Levin's another story. Tony's American you know. In fact in a social setting, Fripp's one of the most attentive and engaging conversationalists I've ever encountered among rock guitarists." Fans who have chance encounters before or after a King Crimson concert performance with the person of Fripp, have unwittingly been exposing themselves to psychological trauma, which may require years of therapy to resolve, says Garcetti. Garcetti, a leading expert in the recent field of "Legal Trauma," has devoted the past several years to researching the phenomena of "digest withdrawal trauma" which Garcetti claims inflicts serious emotional damage on thousands of Internet addicts when either their posts fail to appear because of moderator censorship, or economic or technical circumstance result in a loss of access. But Garcetti has gone a step further in his investigation of King Crimson's music. "It's evil," asserts Garcetti. "Anybody who thinks 'Starless and Bible Black' has anything to do with good Christian charity has no idea what they're getting into. And I don't think even the gay community is very pleased with 'The Great Deceiver.' "When I first got onto ET in November of 1995, myself recovering from a professional setback of mythic proportions, I noticed a preponderence of victimized posters. Families of young people who'd tried merely to strike up a conversation with the leader of this heavy-metal group in disguise told me about how their sons had lost all their sense of musical values when this influential English musician would not acknowledge them as a human being. We had to arrange repeated screenings of the Lynch film, 'Elephant Man' just to get some of these kids out of their cyber-comas." President Gore offered a searing rebuttal when asked about Garcetti's charges. "Pardon my mongolian, but that's a load of Y.S., and the Y means Yack. Sure there are some unsuspecting young listeners out there who don't yet understand the theory of the vampyric relationship between a rock audience and the performers," explains President Gore, an ardent defender of all matters Crimson. "Look put yourself in Fripp's shoes. It's a zen type thing, a kind of rite of initiation for the seeker who casts himself naked into flames of spiritual hazard known as live performance. He's testing both himself and his audience. He might stray in a daze over to the bar in public to have a cup of coffee. His mind is lost in a sea of pentatonic notes, and his only focus is on his life-raft--he doesn't even have a paddle, only a guitar pick. And then some kid comes up to him for the ten-thousandth time and asks, 'hey dude, like how'd you get that Frippertronics sound anyway?'" The President pauses for dramatic effect, losing any pretensions of being labelled a closet Crimsoid. "You see Bob's in a vulnerable state, dwelling-in-the-profane- to-prepare-for-the-ascendance-to-the-sacred kindof thing. A simple question can be a bad sign, but damn if he doesn't need that cup of tea. He's English after all. It's also about risks and rewards too--what kind of risks will a musician take for change? Look, I've been talking about change for a long time in politics, but in music, when it comes to change, I dare you to come up with a group that has mastered the art of change better than KC. What these unfortunate kids have to learn in any kind of encounter with an executive is how to deal with context. Even I know better than to try to shake hands with Bob before a gig. Bob is the kind of public figure that when he sets out to interact with the public, he does just that. He autographs CDs by the thousands! But when is mind is on making music, there's not any room left for small talk. Small minds are going to take it personally at first, but if they open their minds to change, eventually they're going to pull through." Hope this puts things in perpective/Cheers/CH. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin Subject: re: King Crimson and the Coconuts >From: 74762 dot 304 at compuserve dot com >Subject: King Crimson and the Coconuts > >When my brother asked his 50-something boss if he could leave work early >for to see a concert in NYC, his boss said its OK and asked who was >performing. "King Crimson", my brother responded. "And the Coconuts? I've >heard of them -- grass skirts and all that", the boss >responded. "Yes. That's right. King Crimson and the Coconuts." Needless to >say, our new name for Crimson is "THE COCONUTS." And by the way, the luau >(11/20) was fantastic! Didn't Eno and the Bunnymen used to tour with them? 8) -Adam --- "A baked potato is more intelligent than a raw potato." - G.I. Gurdjieff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:47:52 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Mysterious ending on Islands Hi all For the past few days I've been listening one album per night all the way through, progressing backwards chronologically from THRAK. Last night, I got to Islands, probably my least favorite Crimson album. I still don't like it, but sat through it I did. I usually turn it off when Islands finishes at around 9:16, but this time I was preoccupied with something or other, so I let it run out, not realising that it would continue for another 3 minutes with RF conversing over oboe arrangements while the string section tuned up and finally counting out "1-2-3-2-2-3" before the track cuts off. I didn't remember ever hearing this because although I'vee had the disc for years, when I would listen to it more, I only had it on vinyl, and this wasn't on my copy. I had to listen to this segment four or five times to pick it all up. Does this appear on all CD copies? Or does it not appear on all vinyl versions? I still don't particularly care for this album, although it's still better that Peter Gabriel's dismal US album(my benchmark for bad), but I did find that little surprise interesting. Tonight's treat: Lizard! Cheers CV Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]