Elephant Talk #244 (as text)

22 November 1995

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:20:58 -0500
From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" <ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com>
Subject: Hercule Fripp
Last night my wife was dumping through the TV channels, and she came upon
one of her favorite shows, the Agatha Christie Poirot series from
England. That inspector Poirot seemed kind of familiar: a smallish,
pasty-white male, immaculately dressed and shaven, hyperintelligent and
phenomenal at his craft, awkward and somewhat afraid of human contact, an
elitist of sorts,.....hum,.....who does that remind me of? Oh well, I
forget.  -Emory.

PS On the way out here to NJ I heard someone phone in a review of Monday's
KC gig at the Longacre here in NYC. Actually, he was only being asked about
Belew playing "Free as a Bird".

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 09:14:46 EST
From: acohen at lib dot com
Subject: That song from Pulp Fiction
     Just so you all know: the surf-rock song that CGT is playing is called
     "Miserlou". It's an old song (Greek, I believe) -- not technically
     "folk" (it's got writers' credits) but very much in the middle eastern

     The CGT, of course, play the Dick Dale arrangement, released in the
     early '60s (probably before Quentin T. was even born). Dale's version
     can be found on an excellent Rhino retrospective of his work (and, I
     might add, is required listening for any fan of "heavy" rock).

     One further note on the Springfield show. In the middle of "Thrak",
     the band worked themselves into a *really* deep space. Totally unlike
     anything on the studio version. It got really quiet for a while, and
     it seemed like the audience was just going to sit there and listen...
     until some bonehead yelled "Turn up Fripp" and they went back into the
     main theme and finished up. Oh well. I wonder how long they would have
     jammed if the audience had remained quiet...


Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:15:19 +0200 (EET)
From: Saku Mantere <smantere at snakemail dot hut dot fi>
Subject: Sinfield
I must say I'm a bit amazed by the growing antipathy towards Mr Sinfield.
After all the last time the guy has worked with KC was in the early
seventies! The whole concept of popular music and art was a bit different
back then - the most phenomenal texts PS wrote for KC (in my opinion) can
be found on The Court, which was released in 1969. Many of us (at least not
me) weren't even born yet. Tolkien had just hit the big one in the States
and the hippies were still going strong. Fantasy was preferred to the cynic
realism often encountered in the nineties. Generation X wasn't invented

The usual rock lyric's "depth" was usually restricted to feeble attempts of
saying the F-word without actually saying it or expressions of positive
feelings. So, in this perspective Sinfield managed to deliver.  In the epic
context of Tolkien I would consider his text succesfull if not great.


				Saku Mantere
			    Saku dot Mantere at hut dot fi
	              Helsinki University of Technology
		      "Dark in here, isn't it?" - DEATH

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 15:26:17 -0600
From: kikor at interaccess dot com (kikor)
Subject: KC in Chicago
Hi there...9 days to go & counting! I really have no idea if there are any
bars/resturants in the area of the Rosemont Theater, but if anybody would
like to make plans to hook up before the show on the 29th, send me an eMail
&^ maybe we can all get together to gush in unison before or after the

-frank     <kikor at interaccess dot com>

p.s. - STILL hoping for Detroit tix.

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 16:54:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: KC Colors & BB's playlist
I have decide the current lineups colors are
RF - Red (example RED or red Les Paul)
BB - Yellow (Drums suit)
AB - Orange (Dayglo Fender)
PM - Green ?
TG - Purple ?
TL - Blue

If anyone has any feelings on this and Toby thinks this will clog the band
mail me priv. & I will compile & report. Also Musician Mag. had BB in its
"What are you listening to lately" and his list was
1. Max Roche Double Quartet - Easy winners
2. Alice in Chains - Dirt
3. Kieth Jarrett - My Song
4. Ali Farka Toure w/ Ry Cooder - Talking Timbuktu
5. Frank Sinatra - Songs for Swingin' Lovers

Pretty diverse little play list, eh.
bradburn dot martin at epamail dot epa dot gov
"If you don't wish to be here, you may" RF

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:06:39 -0500
From: DaLane at oxygen dot bbn dot com (Dave Lane)
Subject: Here he is
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 15:59:20 -0800
From: "Jeffrey A. Weinberger" <jweinber at ucla dot edu>
Subject: ET
I think Clive's attempt to decode the speeded up bit on "Exposure" was
interesting.  I recall reading that the four second track was originally a
J.G. Bennett speech in excess of one hour long.  If it was exactly one
hour, it would have to be speeded up 900 times to fit into four seconds.
Frequencies at 2,000 cycles would be shifted up to 1,800,000 cycles.  CDs
filter off information above 22kHz, so you couldn't decode from them as a
source.  I'm told that instruments such as cymbals give off frequencies in
millions of cycles, but I don't know to what extent they can be captured on
analog tape. Any one know more about this?

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:44:33 -0600
From: medtek at ghgcorp dot com (Sandra J. Prow)
Ok so it's not a Stick.  Here's a link to a photo of Canadian Astronaut
Chris Hadfield playing a specially built folding electric guitar brought to
the Russian Mir Space Station during STS-74.  When I looked at the
thumbnail, it looked like a Stick, but you'll notice the wire frame.
Thought y'all would enjoy it.  If you want a copy of this and don't have
WWW access, just email me and I'll email it to you.

Low Res:  http://shuttle.nasa.gov/sts-74/images/esc/s74e5195.jpg
High Res: http://shuttle.nasa.gov/sts-74/images/esc/s74h5195.jpg

Sandra J. Prow                   |    I don't represent anyone,
medtek at ghgcorp dot com               |        Not that anyone
medtek at bix dot com                   |      Would want me to....

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 20:39:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Karl Myers <mophead at UDel dot Edu>
Subject: Help Needed w/Fripp
Hello fellow Crimheads!

First post-- Who cares.  Just a quick request for some info.

I need help figuring out where to start with Robert Fripp's Soundscapes.  I
already have Fripp & Eno - Evening Star, and like it a lot.  What I want is
some of Fripp's recent Soundscape work.  The problem is, I am confused as
to where to start (I checked ET archives, which unfortunately furthered my
confusion).  I want some sounds similar to the beginning of B'Boom (the
song), but I also want a diversity of different Soundscapes.  Can anyone
help me????  Opinions welcome!!!  Thank you.

Karl Myers		"Like the time I ran away, turned around
mophead at udel dot edu	and you were still standing close to me." -JA

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 21:24:17 -0500
From: tomhowie at nylink dot org
Subject: Zappa and Bruford
Thanks to Toby for doing a phenomenal job keeping ET going through the
recent deluge...

A couple recent postings have prompted this response: first, the Zappa
plunger story was great!  And it reminded me of a similar incident I
witnessed at a Jethro Tull concert in Providence, RI in the `70s.

Tull used to start their shows with five or six quiet songs before playing
Thick As A Brick, then crank the volume when TAAB segued from the acoustic
instruments to the electric.  Someone in the back of the hall chose that
moment to toss a pack of firecrackers.  With a quick hand motion, Ian
stopped the performance dead and proceeded to give the offender hell.  He
explained that a young girl at a previous show was blinded because some
"silly f****r like you" threw firecrackers into the crowd, and if he heard
any more firecrackers, the band would leave and not come back.

The audience was very happy, and Tull finished the show without incident.

I was also amused at the post regarding Bruford's penchant to standing back
from the kit with his arms behind his back while his fellow drummer went to
town.  He did this quite a bit during Yes' Union tour while Alan White
slugged away.  Actually, the thing that impressed me most about Bruford
when I first saw him was how amazingly mobile he is, spending half his time
seated at the kit, the other half racing around his array of percussives.
My favorite moment during the ABWH tour in `89 was when he grabbed the
tamborine and ran down next to Anderson during Roundabout, where he
proceeded to jump about like a dirvish.

I just love watching people who love what they're doing!

tomhowie at nylink dot org
Tomas Howie
West Chazy, NY   U

Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 21:58:32 -0500
From: tomhowie at nylink dot org
Subject: Tony Levin Pre-KC
I'm not terribly familiar with Tony Levin's work Pre-Discipline.  I first
heard of him on that album after picking it up because Bruford is on it
(I'm a BIG Bruford fan).

I was surprised to see that he once played with Paul Simon, and appeared on
Simon's film "One Trick Pony", which came out in 1980 (Discipline was
1981).  He played - surprise - the bass player in Simon's band.

tomhowie at nylink dot org
Tomas Howie
West Chazy, NY   U

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 01:19:03 -0500 (EST)
From: sinner at HAL dot HAHNEMANN dot EDU
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #243
Gideon B Banner asks :
	What did TL do to keep himself busy in between the 80s and 90s
versions of KC?

	Well, the one thing I know of (besides his work w/ Peter Gabriel)
was his playing as a session musician (bass, Stick, and a vocal here and
there) for the Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album, back in 1989. The
album's pretty good, if you don't know it. I don't know if TL ever toured
with ABWH or not -- a guy named Jeff Berlin played bass on the road with
them for at least some of their 1989 tour. Beyond that, I don't know.
Anybody else know of some projects on which Tony worked?

Scott W Sinner			Happy Thanksgiving, everybody (in the US)!
SINNER at hal dot hahnemann dot edu	Keep up the great work, Toby.

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 03:25:42 -0500
From: DanKirkd at aol dot com
Subject: Life, The Universe and King Crimson
In ET241 Tefkros writes:

>Can't tell you anything about that one. I'm curious myself, because they
>also changed the lyrics of "Starless" when they were playing it live, and
>the two or three different versions each have different lyrics from each
>other and from the studio version!

I believe the reason is that the lyrics were not finalized until this was
recorded for "Red". When they were doing Starless live Wetton certainly
sounds like he's actually making the lyrics up as he goes.


Dominique philosophizes:

>folks! Nothing had any chances to happen, but everything does! This to
>convince you all that the world is more that it seems, and that we
>virtually live somewhere that can not exist, we live life that can not be,
>and ourselves are just plain negation of the basic princips of
>probability. Think about it...

Umm... ok, but at the same time we live on a planet that in all probability
is just one of many billions in the universe on which there is life.  So
possibly even billions of alien King Crimsons, or Kin Rimsons, or K in
Grinksons, or Kingcrim Sons, etc...!

By the way Dominique it's PossProd at aol dot com (you were missing the 'r')


Someone asked about Fripp and Tai Chi:

I believe Fripp makes mention of this in the Rock & Folk interview I
translated for this digest back in May.  It should be available through the
ET Web pages, resources area. From what I remember, the simple answer is
yes, he does Tai Chi.


Marco asked and answered:

>1) What is the correct spelling for PM's name?

Pat Mosticiolli is surely heir to the thrown of most misspelled name in King
Crimson history, far surpassing Bill Brufood in this respect. :^)


Daniel A. Kirkdorffer          | "Though the course may change sometimes
Email: e#kirkd at ccmail dot ceco dot com | rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant
       DanKirkd at aol dot com        +-------------------------------------------
WWW: http://users.aol.com/dankirkd/danhome.html

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 08:56:42 EST
From: jreilly at eng dot gdai dot com (John Reilly)
Subject: 4 Seconds of Bennet
I actually did this once.  I was a DJ for my college station back in 1980
or so.  In those days people would call up every 15 minutes to request
Bruce Springsteen (Hey, play some of the 'Boss' man...).  Needless to say I
never thought 'the Boss' would fit in well sandwiched between a few hours
of Fripp and similar muscians.  So one day I used the recording studio to
speed up a Springsteen album to to 3 seconds or so.  With each speed up you
would hear the frequency of the base drums rise and the beats get closer
together while more of the "music" dropped out of audible range and hence
filtered out by the bandwidth limitations of the recording equipment.  As
the base beats got closer, they sounded more and more like the
zzzzzzzzzzpth on the piece on Exposure.  In fact, when all was said and
done, the two pieces were almost identical.  End result: Every Springsteen
request resulted in my playing of the entire album.

From: David Oskardmay - Imonics Corporation <davido at imonics dot com>
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:41:12 -0500
Subject: RF shreds
David 1 writes:
>1. How does Fripp play the repeating 6 demisemiquaver phrase at the start
>of "Frame by Frame"? (I hope there's a trick to it but I wouldn't be too
>surprised if he just picks the hell out of it).

David 2 responds:
Sorry to dissappoint, but RF generally just picks the hell out of
everything.  His right hand technique is what sets him apart from much
of the guitarist universe--even more interesting since he is left handed.
(Lefties rule! :-)

>3. 10 points to anyone who comes up with a way to play the intro from

Insert CD into player, select "Sleepless," push play.


Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:41:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Mark J. Christensen" <mchriste at panther dot middlebury dot edu>
Subject: God Save the King/Sleepless/Freebird
I just picked up a copy of Fripp's "God Save the King" which is the
definitive edition combination release of "The Zero of the Signified" and
"The League of Gentlemen" and I have a question.  Does anyone know why all
of the "audio verite" spoken word parts were all deleted from the re-mix?
(or why he just didn't get Belew to re-speak all the parts? ;^))

David (drl at eng dot cam dot ac dot uk) wrote:

>10 points to anyone who comes up with a way to play the intro from

well, to quote a message from t.l.-

>Sleepless is easy - I have a digital repeat - a fast one, with only one
>repeat, so I just slap eighth notes, and 1/16 notes come out.

do i have to share the 10 points with him? (:{)

and a final note:
last night my band tried to play "Freebird" unrehearsed on a whim...

i still feel kinda queasy thinking about it.

"sunder here navy man"


Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:09:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Alicia Sepulveda <asepulvedan at spin dot com dot mx>
Subject: Glenn Branca
Hi there! This is 15 years-old Pablo Cordero's first post. Add thank-you's
and I'm-not-worthy's for this excellent digest here. Anyway, to get
straight to my topic, I'd like to suggest that all of you who like KC's
biggest-sounding and sometimes dissonant pieces (eg. Thrak or LTinA pt.2)
might want to check out the work of New York composer Glenn Branca.  This
man is classically trained, and has an equal love for modern classical
music and for the electric guitar, leading to often stunning
electrical-symphonical pieces.

He has more than 4 symphonies, of which I've only heard the first 2.
Symph. # 1 is an excellent blend of chordal guitars (11 electrics or so)
with brass, bass, drums and allsorts. It's sometimes dynamic, always
beautiful. My father (who knows a lot about music) says it's one of the
best things ever done in rock. The only unfavourable review of it I read
was in IndustrialnatioN magazine, which said something about 'random
plinking and stumming which could have been performed by you and your kid
sister'. Being a classical and electric guitarist myself, I can assure you
it's not random at all, and you and your kid sister would have a pretty
hard time playing it.

Symph # 2 is somehow calmer, losing the brass section and normal guitars in
exchange for guest percussionist Z'ev (a famous NY avant-gardist)'s metal
percussion and the Branca-designed 'mallet guitar' (sort of a pedal-steel
played like a dulcimer, which produces quite a lovely massed-violins
sound). It's more claassical, less rock. Incidentally, the beggining of the
second movement mixes metal-percussion bursts with blasting chords, somehow
reminiscent of the beginning of 'Thrak'.

However, my favourite Branca record is 'The Ascension', an experiment in
a more rock-oriented form. A slimmed-out lineup (Branca, 3 other
guitarists and a rhythm section) and shorter compositions (the 12-minute
long 'The Spectacular Commodity' and the 4-minute 'Lesson#2' include some
of his best work) make the band more accesible. The 4 guitarist's tight
chords and interlocking melodies shine like never before. Jeffrey Glen's
excellent bass work can be heard, for a change. And I can't say enough
about drummer Stephen Wischert.

His orchestra includes Sonic Youth's 2 guitarists (Thuston Moore and Lee
Ranaldo) and too many underground semi-celebrities to mention here.  Except
for 'The Ascension' Branca himself rarely plays guitar on his pieces. He is
of course, the conductor of the orchestra, although the studio versions of
his Symphonies include a little lead or 'harmonics' guitar work from
him. Speaking of leads, don't expect extended, blazing guitar solos or
you'll be dissapointed. True to classical tradition, the band more often
plays in unison, for the piece itself.

Finally, his main drummer (the aforementioned Stephen Wischert) is
extraordinary. Although he's not as virtuosistic as, say, Bruford, he
carries the complex rhythms with imagination and grace. He has, unlike 99%
of drummers, a highly personal and (really) recognizable style.

OK, sorry for the extension of this, and thanks again for the magazine.

Any comments or suggestions to form a band (Mexico City area) should be
sent at: asepulvedan at spin dot com dot mx Later; Pablo Cordero 'And if you really
need to throw your musical picture unto the Stage of the Gods, like a leaf
blowing in the wind, do be careful not to hit the demigod with the Les Paul
in the head'-Ancient Chinese Proverb

From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin)
Subject: re 240-241-242 plus BB interview
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:48:44 +0100 (MET)
Hi guys! First of all, my name is Olivier Malhomme. The name in the head
line ithe one of the boss of my laboratory (Stehelin). Make no mistake (in
case). This the second part of the interview of B.B. I gave once. Before
this, I wanna say I'm getting disapointed with E.T. these days. Why? I'm
tired to read theories about R.F. behaviour. Tired to hear you arguing on
the interest or not of synthAB as a lyricist, or whatever Everything that
could be interesting has already been said, so pleeeaaase!

I think that as people turned on by K.C. and all this peculiar family, we
share something more important. More! I think we all have something because
ouf this interest we have, pieces of information, things we know we can all
share together. IUm naive enough to think it was the main aim of this
forum. The crap about mellotron/synth or not/ this flamin about anything,
Fripp an asshole or not. Who the hell do you think cares! I'm interesting
in knowing what YOU know that I donUt. IUll make my best to tell you what I
HAPPEN to know, that maybe you donUt. As far as IUm concerned, that the all
idea aboutSHARING info and experience. Why do you think I spent hours to
translate the best way I could this interview? Why do you think I tried to
explain this stuff about Bartok and Hungarians modes (even if it was not so
cristal clear)? So this is it...

B.B Interview part 2

QJ: Before the recording of album, how did you prepare yourself and PatJ?

B.B: We have conceived the drum parts from the very start. We took the
time necessary that everything worked together and that we would complement
ourself mutually. If we only played what we wanted, most of the time it
would have sound like a drum store.

QJ: What are the quality required for a drummer to play in studio with
you? It must be an amazing challengeJ!

B.B: I donUt think that you need anything else than a good pair of
ears. Theris nothing to be afraid of. Whatever you bring to the fista, you
must be proud of it. We are both interested in what the other is playing. I
donUt care wether Pat can do a lot or not, we have to find something funny
and entertaining to doPat has an enormous groove, as big as texas
itself. He is unmutable and thatUs incredible. My role consist in hanging
around these limits, to frolic in the area. He is the steack and french
fries, I am the RJsauce bearnaiseJS.

QJ: IUve got a feeling you like that kind of scope well defined.

B.B: itUs restricting, of course, but limits can be really usefull in a
creaion process. Some ideas make you work than others. The exact opposite
of what happend in this mega re-formation of YES, where there was no
work. Here, Imust be awake, because I am the one to establish with Pat a
list of strategies to adopt. We have 14 or 15 zones where to develop those
strategies, and that can appear on any track. Now we are a rythm
team. K.C. is clearly the place for evolutions in drumming. I think the
next evolution of this intrument will be in term of bars, and in the
ability to improvise not more with fills, rumbles andtons of notes on the
toms, but with metrics. For example, 2 different metrics played
simultaneously or the melody line in a metrics and the rythm line in
another, or superimposing these two, or bluntly to shift the
metrics. ThatUs the kind of things Trilok Gurtu and this bright english
Gavin Harrison. Someone like Gavin can play a rythm and suddenly add a
single note et gives you the feeling that the ground suddenly collapsed
under you feet. ThatUs a really interesting thing to developp, IUm going to
do that a lot, because K.C. is the ideal group for that kind of experiment,
especially with this enormous tempo of Pat, noone will be lost.

QJ: On the title SSEDD, itUs like you went crazy with assymetrical bars.

B.B: The central part, there polyrythm. I play an extraordianry rythm all
along, and off course, itUs resolving in the end, but there is akll this
tension because of the 2 drummers. It gets quite unbearable with this 2
rythm superimposed, but when it goes crazy, it is a very musical way.

QJ: Pat gives you the possibility to play all these (metriques) experimentalJ?

B.B: You need someone on the front to do the simple things against which
iUm going to play, but we could do that with only one dummer. The
K.C. public is well prepared for such things (noteJ: Guys, heUs talking
about us all, I thinkJ!). They have a foot in Jazz, and an other in rock,
they are no sheeps when it comes to music. They want to hear something
different and they like to be surprised. Pat and me also have a duo on the
album, BUBoom, that is a good example of RJimprovisationJS on the metrics.

QJ: When in studio, are you a perfectionistJ?

B.B: No, not really, I have never thought of music as an exact science. To
memusic is unprecise, and thatUs how I like it. It is not about cleanness,
itUs not about washing your armpits. This is about dirt, what crunches
under your theeth, all this grey intermediary zone. It's about spontan ity
and nice accidents. That's why I do really love jazz. There is a feeling,
and a general movement imprecised but it is nonetheless very beautifull and
very powerfull.  There is nothing as perfect to me.

Q: The feeling of spontaneity is very strong on that new album, probably is
it due to the the fact that you recorded "live" in the studio?

B.B.: We record live, and this time we have been reharsing and recording
simultaneously, so thingd went very quick. It was so quick that if we had
been wanting to add something, it would have ben too late because the
record was already done. I don't think that Pat wewere doing the album. He
knew we were reharsing, and that the tape was rolling, but no one said "OK,
w cut it now". Wdid the album in two or three days, Pat was still waiting
to exchange the skins of its drum for new ones. If you want to pull out
someone's teeth,better do it when he is looking somewhere else.

From: "Wayne Wylupski" <Wayne dot Wylupski at centra dot centra dot net>
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:36:54 +0000
Subject: Re: Shred This!
David (drl at eng dot cam dot ac dot uk) asks the following:

> 1. How does Fripp play the repeating 6 demisemiquaver phrase at the
> start of "Frame by Frame"? (I hope there's a trick to it but I
> wouldn't be too surprised if he just picks the hell out of it).

He picks the hell out of it.  But there is a "trick"; be aware of the
following: on Discipline album he plays notes (1b3 4 5 4 b3) that spans
across two strings without changing hand positions.  On B'BOOM he changes
it to (1 b3 5 b7 5 b3) so he can span two strings without changing hand
position using the 5ths-based Crafty tuning.

> 2. Would any stick playing reader care to suggest how to play the riff
> just after the intro trills of Elephant Talk?

Remember to detune one of the bass strings so that the tritone can be
played with one finger, and remember it is played with two hands tapping.
With the left hand, play the root-4-5 pattern until you can do it in your
sleep.  Then add the right hand.  (There's a lot of variation in the right
hand so I can't notate it here, but it's not hard to learn.  Just work on
the left hand first.).

It can be played on a guitar as well.

> 3. 10 points to anyone who comes up with a way to play the intro from
> Sleepless.

I believe Mr. Levin, The Bass Innovator plays it this way: Get the steady,
ostinato-like bass down by alternating slapping with your thumb and the
knuckle of your little finger.  It's a rocking motion, and the knuckle
doesn't have to articulate as well as the thumb; the steady rhythm is
important.  Then add the pops with your index finger.  It's a challenge!

> 4. And finally, for those devotees of the
> famous-but-not-a-jerk-about-it Adrian Belew: any ideas how to play the
> guitar part of the intro to Swingline.

Sorry, you're on your own.  It's been a long time since I've heard this

Hope this helps,
wayne at centra dot net
Arlington, MA

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 10:54:49 -0500
From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson)
Subject: ET 243--Greg Lake's "talent"
In ET #243 Tefkros Symeonides wrote:

>Lake has one of the best
>voices ever in progressive rock! I'm not sure what you mean by "thin and
>reedy", but his talent is unquestionable.

HA!  I laughed when I read this.  I hope it is a joke.  I realize how
futile arguments over people's talents are, however, so I won't bother.  I
just want to make this warning to any aspiring singers out there: DON'T
SMOKE!  Just compare early ELP stuff to their Live at the Royal Albert Hall
1993 recording to hear the effects it has on your voice.  How many octaves
has he dropped?  Three?  Four?

  SCOTT T. ANDERSON                        "Most people... haven't even
  sanderso at gac dot edu                           thought about not thinking."
  http://www.gac.edu/~sanderso                  --Karlheinz Stockhausen

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:36:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Don Becker <becker at panther dot adelphi dot edu>
Subject: 21CSM?
> Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm clueless.  Why does most of the ET group
> berate those who want to hear 21CSM at concerts?  I know it's as old as
> dirt, but has Fripp said that he doesn't want to play it anymore?  With the
> current lineup, it would be quite interesting.

I *still* would like to hear Belew tackle some of the Wetton-era KC vocal
material (I wasn't alive when LTiA was released, so I've never seen Exiles
or Easy Money performed live.  Or Starless.  Or Fallen Angel...)

For that matter, since we know he can sing "Cadence And Cascade", why *not*
do an updated version?  Fripp could easily replace Mel Collins' flute with
some soundscapes...


/ Don Becker -- becker at panther dot adelphi dot edu -- http://www.adelphi.edu/~becker/ \
| "Time is never time at all.  You can never, ever leave without leaving a    |
|  piece of youth.  And our lives are forever changed.  We will never be the  |
\  same."                   --Smashing Pumpkins, "Tonight, Tonight" (1995)"   /

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:41:25 +0000 (GMT)
From: Richard Beck <rbeck at hgmp dot mrc dot ac dot uk>
Subject: Tony Levin
> From: Gideon B Banner <gideon dot banner at yale dot edu>
> What did Tony Levin do before joining Crimson and in between the 80s
> incarnation and the 90s incarnation?  I know he's played with Gabriel and I
> know about the solo album, but where was he in between?

He played with the 'Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe' incarnation of YES in
the late 80s, early 90s. This included the eponymous LP, the 'Union' LP and
the ABWH tours.

I can't remember any other projects off-hand (besides Gabriel), but I'll
have another look at my record collection.

rb	London

Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:39:48 -0500
From: Rob Martino <martino at ctron dot com>
Subject: Elephant talk Stick TAB

In the last digest David (drl at eng dot cam dot ac dot uk) asked if anyone knew the
Elephant Talk TAB.  Well, I've had my Stick for a week and I just had to
learn that riff, so here is my best shot at it (this is from memory so I
might have messed it up a little):

The ==== is the lowest bass string and the ~ means the little trill
(slide up to the next frets and back (14/13 to 15/14) real fast!

----14-14------14-16-14~ ----14-14-----14-16-14~ ----
----13-13------13-15-13~ ----13-13-----13-15-13~ ----

----14-14------14-16-14~ ----14-14-----14-16---13-13
----13-13------13-15-13~ ----13-13-----13-15---12-12

You can get the rhythm from listening to the CDs.

The studio and live (B'Boom) version vary a little, this is sort of a
combination of techniques from both.  Tony might actually play the 14/13
part on the equivalent bass strings, I seem to remember seeing both hands
on the same side when I saw KC in Boston.

Rob Martino

From: Craig Dickson <cd at crl dot com>
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #243
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 09:13:44 -0800 (PST)
Tefkros Symeonides <tsymeo at zenon dot logos dot hol dot gr> writes:

|In ET #241, crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk wrote:
|>Believe me, I'm trying to forget Sinfield...there's nothing remotely
|>clever about stringing together one meaningless line of
|>tum-te-tum-te-tum words after another.
|I consider this subject closed so I won't answer to that highly exaggerated
|("tum-te-tum"???) and offensive statement;

Pot, kettle, black. You don't think anyone was offended by your remarks
about other lyricists?

|I'm sure other people will agree; if you have a
|good vocalist and good lyrics you have good music.

No, I don't agree with that at all. I don't think anyone with any
understanding of music whatsoever could agree that the quality of music is
determined by the quality of the lyrics associated with it. The vocalist,
meanwhile, is only one of several "instruments" involved in the
performance, and his or her efforts are not the sole determinant of the
quality of the performance.

With regard to the ongoing, rather annoying "my favorite lyricist is a
great poet, your favorite lyricist is a dweeb" discussion of which your
latest posting is a part, I will say only that I think every Crimson
lyricist has, at his best, written very well, and at his worst, written
utter garbage. It is therefore possible to deceptively present any of them
as "the best" by citing his best lyrics in contrast to the other writers'
worst, as you did in your original pro-Sinfield posting.


Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:51:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: New Haven 11/18 Review
I had a feeling that our trip to New Haven was going to be special but
after a frustrating week, I guess I was just unfocused. Well let me tell
you it was a night to remember.

We left Rhode Island, all 6 of us in my friends station wagon, for two
members of the team it was their first KC show and while everone else had
seen the Fripp/CGT/Gachos show and the KC Orpheum show earlier. Jorge said
he expected a mucical experience, not a concert and confessed to not
listening to much KC. The trip was uneventful and we arrived as the CGT was
finishing Fugue & Toccata in Dm. They were outstanding as usual but seemed
even tighter and yet more relaxed than in Boston or NY. Hideyo in the
shades, Burt in his hat and Paul beaming in the middle brought a smile to
your face and joy to your heart.  Does anyone else think that the
fuzz/slide opening to "Train to Lamy" Pt 1 sounds like Zep's "In my time of
Dying" from Physical Grafitti?. The Pulp Fiction (is that really a Dick
Dale piece?) was just hilarious and shows the humour in craft. A great set,
I wish it could have been longer. Jorge said he liked the CGT but didn't
like the TtL Suite medley at all!

We shuffled into the lobby for some merchandise buying and then the lights
flashed indication the King was about to enter. If I was blown away at the
Boston show I can only say the New Haven show was devastating! From the
opening of Thrak (with some incredible improv in the second half) we were
watching a master group of players at work. The power of this band is like
watching a hurricane at landfall. The only piece that was not as moving as
in Boston was Red, but the Disipline and Beat pieces were exceptional with
ToaPP and Thela Hun Ginjeet standing out. Yes Adrain there were many
casualties in the audience that night. Thanks to Mr Belew for the "Free as
a Bird" watching it on TV Sunday was made even more special by your
rendition. Maybe a Trio-Trio with George,Paul and Ringo?

Everone seemed to be having a great time even Tony (so sorry about you
instuments) except for Mr Fripp, he seemed distant and this was exasperated
by his low volume in the mix. During some of his solo's Adrian's rthyme
part was much louder. The exception to this was dual guitar creshendo at
the end of Neurotica was like a bomb going off in your head or two dueling

The enchores were as spectacular with the Drum Trio being a real crowd
pleaser.  In the end I could have hoped for one more encore, but the shock
may have been to much. The crowd was good except for the yelling during the
quiet parts and people talking through the CGT. We drove home in the rain,
numb not from the cold but the realization that we were so lucky to have
been given such a rare experience.  Our Ist timer, Jorge said he was
overloaded during the heavier pieces, enjoyin the more melodic ones
more. He said he very happy he went.

After everyone left, I was clicking through cable and there was a news seg
on the Rembrants. Who should appear first but PM practicing before a gig.
These guy's are everywhere!  Thanks to the League/NST/Gachos/CGT/Robert/KC
teams for a year of unforgetable musical experiences and to my fellow
listening team. At times I think were able to "look through the music" to
the endless miriad that lies behind.

From: "Caron, Antoine" <ANTOINE dot CARON at NRC dot CA>
Subject: GIG REVIEW: New Haven impressions
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 95 14:26:00 EST
    Bonjour a tous
    My girlfriend and I traveled from Montreal to New Haven on Nov 18 to catch
the Crimson King once more. Earlier this year, we had seen the band in our
hometown (May 28, see ET review). I had bought tickets by phone (T-master)
without being able to find out the exact row and L-R placement: blind faith!
To our amazement, the seats were dead center, in the first row of the
balcony's upper section. I'll do my best to avoid repetition from other
    The CGT opened while people were still flocking in (aggravating). They
great with their(apparently) new guitars. The crowd's response was moderately
enthusiastic, but nothing like other cities (no encore). Too bad.
    As reported earlier, KC opened with some drumming (B'Bish?) followed
by Thrak. It seemed to me that the improv, though interesting, worked more
like a warm-up. Just a week or two ago, Thrak was the centerpiece: this tells
you how fast KC is evolving! Red was good, but not as dynamic as in
Montreal. The band looked a little tired, but not as tired as Dinosaur itself
which I personally need a break from.
    The crowd was not very attentive, nor very responsive and this seemed
to affect the band. However, they recovered quickly and the middle part of the
show was great: especially amazing was the TG-TL duet (TL was playing an
alternance of bass and distorted chords while Trey was leading swiftly: much
better than previous attempts I had heard). But the turning point, to me,
was Frame by Frame. Both in Montreal and on the B'Boom live, this song felt
uneasy. In New Haven, it was magnificent: TG and RF playing the interlocking
riffs like musical derviches. It was one of those incredible moments when
music gets larger than the people who make it/listen to it: everything falls
..or rather RISES into place...and there is no way I can explain this to you
(specially in English!).
    ET readers know by now, of course, about the "stunt" that Adrian pulled
on us with his solo rendition/preview of "Free as a bird". He accompanied
himself with piano samples played from his guitar. It was fitting, beautiful
and very touching: even the band applauded AB warmly. Indiscipline saw the
band much more relaxed, BB smiling profusely at last. Elephant Talk was a
pure joy: Adrian was completely electrified and electrifying, the whole band
was pulsating under rythmic vari-lights going tic-tac-to on the six
musicians. My girlfriend (relatively new to the Court) was now on her feet,
screaming with me. The crowd had finally awakened from its torpor and was
asking for more as the band lined-up to take a bow. RF hugged AB and
whispered (?) something in his ear.
    The encore was a non-stop barrage of raw energy: People (one of my
favorites, contrary to a lot of... them). Trey Gunn could really be heard and
he was cooking on the Warr. Funk-a- rooti (!). The transition to The Talking
Drum was a little odd, but, who cares, this thing had become URGENT...TG, then
AB soloed wildly...and we all knew were we were going: LTIA II. This one was
played with a genuine furor, a refusal to settle for the ordinary. Tony Levin
played some mind-bending bass figures, constantly reaching for the unusual:
he was dangerous! Fripp's sound in LTIA was simply heart/gut-wrenching,
devastating. They left the stage to a real ovation this time, while roadies
brought drums and percs to frontstage. AB,PM and BB then played a percussion
improv. Bill, in his yellow jacket, proceeded to play a little solo on the
cowbells (?) and it was the most amazing thing...played which such ease and
fluidity. All we could do was to laugh helplessly and shake our heads: how
in the world does he do that? He IS a magician, not an arrogant one, a
gentle, smiling magician. RF and TG returned, and they finished us off with
    All I could think was: again? It's the fifth time I see the Crimsonites
live (starting in 74) and they have always given more than seemed possible.
It's not a matter of expectation: I have long learned that expectations only
get in the way of listening. My guess is that Robert Fripp, for all his
seemingly quirky ways (or maybe because of them), has this amazing ability
to catalyze the interactions of performers around him. The result is yet
another King Crimson. Hope it's not the last one. OOPS, sorry, that WAS
an expectation...
Antoine W. Caron

Date: 21 Nov 95 14:48:08 EST
From: "N. Rob Leas" <74511 dot 775 at compuserve dot com>
Subject: 11/20
Just a quick note to let the list know, last night was another incredible show.

Adrian started the show with a solo performance of "Free as a Bird".  He used a
perfect piano sample (good Lennon-esque double-trackish feel). I think he
figured it out from the previous night's broadcast, as he didn't know all the
words.  Regardless, it was great.  It reminded me of what I read about Hendrix
performing "Sgt. Pepper's" the day after it was released.


N. Rob Leas (webmaster for www.bankerstrust.com)    leasnr at bankerstrust dot com
						 webmaster at bankerstrust dot com
<***    Music is the best. - FZ                                         ***>

From: "Dave *Sample THIS!* Read" <daveread at zork dot tiac dot net>
Organization:  d/b/a: AMOEBA
Date:          Sun, 19 Nov 1995 14:10:08 -0500
Subject:       GIG REVIEW: New Haven 11/18
REVIEW: King Crimson - Palace Theater - New Haven, Connecticut -


Brilliant show. Probably the best performance I've ever seen of any
kind. Wonderful, challenging, surprising, thrilling, life-affirming,
inspiring. Also very good.


The Hall - Excellent seating, great acoustics. By my guess, it holds
about 2500-3000 people, but there were at least about a hundred
empty seats in the orchestra section where I was seated. We were
 searched for cameras and recorders on entry, and signs were posted on
the doors that no one would be seated during songs, although I must
mention that people were coming and going throughout the show; it was
a major annoyance, and kind of distracting.

California Guitar Trio - Much warmer sound, more emotional show than
at the Orpheum in Boston last June. Highlights for me were the
arrangements of Beethoven's 5th symphony 1st mvmnt, and Bach's
Toccata  & Fugue in D Minor (a.k.a.: "The Rollerball Theme", if you're a
victim of the 70's as I am.) For an encore, they did the theme from
Pulp Fiction.

Audience - I'm pretty confused about this audience. On the one hand,
there was loud talking throughout the CGT's performance, yet at the
end, they were given a standing ovation and what seemed rousing and
heartfelt applause. Weird. The audience was also incredibly impolite
when Fripp came onstage and started playing along with the taped
soundscape. He was clearly visible, obviously playing, and yet there
was a loud murmur of conversation coming from all directions. Some
of us briefly applauded at his arrival, then quieted down
immediately to hear him, but the talking continued until Bill and
Pat appeared and started whacking their drums so hard that no one
could possibly talk over the sound. KC received many standing
ovations throughout the evening. Perplexing.

The Band  - Like I said, a brilliant performance. The 6-piece King Crimson
has arrived! Despite early discussions about a double trio, this
band IS a sextet and no doubt about it. Trey and Pat did much more
than just their share, they were sometimes doing some of the others'
work as well. During one tune (People?), Pat started in playing all
of BOTH drum parts. Bill just stood up and started grooving to it
behind his set. Throughout the show, Pat was playing lots of the
trademark Brufordisms we love so much. This guy is a _monster_! Trey
took the spotlight many times, playing in lots of different ways,
and really adding to the music. Although there were a few moments
where I could not tell what he was playing, it was completely
different from what I saw in Boston last June, where he seemed to be
just taking up space on the stage. Tony was his always-professional
self. His work was flawless and appropriate. During Dinosaur, his
basso-profundo singing of "somebody's diggin' my bones" almost made
Adrian burst out laughing, and here's a good spot to make this
comment: Everyone in the band seemed to be having the time of their
life. The music was right. The hall was right. The audience was
right .(Despite the initial noisiness.) The moment was right. Even
Fripp was gleefully playing with his parts. (Oh my goodness, I just
re-read that last line... Anyway...) Throughout the evening, he was
surprising the band with different harmonies, different timbres, and
sometimes blatant elephantosity. (Yeah I know that's Adrian's word,
but it applies.) Adrian was grinning all night, constantly on the
verge of laughter. Pat seemed intent on making Bruford react, doing
things like playing inside and outside the rhythm at the same time,
and sticking intricately baroque little fills into tiny spaces in
the music. During part of the Talking Drum, he was hitting the drums
and cymbals with his _hands_!  Bill, for his part seemed happy,
although he was not smiling as much as during the Boston show. The
interaction between the guys was wonderful, and sort of reminded me
of the tension between Sting and Stuart Copeland when the Police
were in their heyday. These guys were not only playing for the
audience, they were playing for each other and loving every minute
of it!

The Sound - Very, very good. It was clear from the start that the
Palace has great acoustics to begin with, but the sound crew did a
great job keeping everything audible, balanced, and loud, without
going  overboard. No earplugs required, but plenty of volume. Near the
end of the show, things seemed to be getting a little edgier, but
that may have just been my own 40-year-old ears. Kudos to the crew!

The Music - The content of the show was, with one notable exception,
pretty much the same as has been reported previously, however this
show seems to have been different in that the order of performance
was drastically altered. As I mentioned earlier, Fripp started
playing along with the Soundscape tape at the start. Bill & Pat
appeared and started up a thrilling,  long version of B'Boom, and
then  the rest of the guys appeared, and cranked up Thrak. I really
liked the way this worked. Fripp playing along with the tape seemed
very vulnerable, and then B'Boom acted like a sort of fanfare. Great
stuff! The much-discussed drum trio was saved for the second encore,
and it was scary! It seemed to me to be very much in the manner of
those Japanese Taiko (Is that the right word?)  Drummers. Adrian,
Bill, and Pat were blazing away on two large, upraised toms (?) and
a small array of blocks and bells and things in perfect
synchronization. Bill and Pat took mind-boggling solos, and Adrian
held his own admirably. Delightful! LTiAII was better than any of
the versions I've heard. It had every important moment of the
original disc version, while each band member added something new
and significant to it, to make it very much their own.

Adrian played the 'new' Beatles song "Free As A Bird", announcing
that this was it's world premiere. I thought he was goofing around,
playing off of all the commentary about him sounding too much lik e
John Lennon, and on the ubiquitous requests from audiences for
Freebird, but wasn't I surprised last night when Free As A Bird
appeared on the Beatles Anthology TV show... He sang and performed
MIDI piano on his guitar, sounding very much like Lennon. A nice
moment. I hope _someone_ managed to get a recording of this show,
and will be willing to share it with us. It was too good for words.

Message to the Band - Thank you, guys! It was a wonderful gift!

Message to Toby - Thank _you_, Toby! We really do appreciate all the
work you've been doing for us with this always-excellent newsletter.
Sorry to add to your workload within this letter, but I really
wanted to share my thoughts.

ps: Hi to Tamas V. Hope you get to see KC playing this well!

***   AMOEBA Website - http://www.tiac.net/users/daveread/  ***

Mike Stok