From elephant-talk at arastar dot comFri Nov 17 13:29:58 1995 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 08:29:28 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #240 Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk #240 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 240, Friday, 17 November 1995 Today's Topics: road defense Re: What hit Fripp? King Crimson on Conan O'Brien show KC on Conan KC on Late Night with Conan O'Brien Another Comment: Tossing Stuff On-stage Happy ET fripper-kindness Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #238 re: what hit Fripp... What to ingest before a KC show. RF's attitude towards fans road defense KC on Conan / a substance for Gideon King Crimson: Conan O'Brian TV Show -- November 14, 1995 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #234 Greetings + KC LIVE, etc. (none) Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #238 Fripp's Attitudes: Another Perspective! Re: Bowie & Fripp Alice: Charade CD Fripp Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239 A few things Belew.... Zappa....Bowie....Talikg heads...Crimson re ET 235-236-237 A Fripp Remembrance HELP!! (again) Crimson on Conan That speeded-up bit on Exposure.... Re:last hope belew's lyrics William Faulkner, Bridge Between, and rotational symmetry Belew & Eno Columbus Tickets You'll never tune up in this town again! Re: Ingesting "substances" Two Weeks From Today 'Easy Money' lyrics king crimson reevuu... What To Injest Before A KC Concert. Synthesizers Celebrity encounters Re: Where do they get off . . . Belew's Lyrics CONAN, ATLANTA Lyrics, drugs, Ppirf Trey strikes again A Stick is a Stick Sinfield's Lyrics Synthesizers & Vinyl Gig Review: Wilkes-Barre, PA 11/15 Bowie/guitarists/Bruce Cockburn live Red Adrian Does Lennon RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239 Crimson with the Upside Down Man KC in Wilkes-Barre, PA KC management, Belew solo, House of Blues on TV? BB interview KC on Conan Perspectives REVIEWS KC in Wilkes-Barre, PA king crimson reevuu... TIX Tix for sale: tix--Longacre--11/22--make an offer... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:47:20 -0500 (EST) From: "M. S. AtKisson" Subject: road defense A number of people have given the standard "Fripp's an artist" defense to excuse his rough way of getting strangers to leave him alone. Let me offer one more. I spent something over 4 years working in the audio/lighting end of live music, both on the road with the company I worked for, and as part of an arena stage crew. Both from my own regional experiences and from the things I've heard and observed from the national tours, let me suggest that touring is hard. You have no real home base, the performance space is different every night, and you are constantly surrounded by strange places and people. Some people thrive on the stimulation, or at least tolerate it well. Some people insulate themselves. It's not just a Fripp thing. I've seen tour carpenters who don't want to interact with the house crew any more than is strictly necessary. It's a credit to the many performers who maintain grace and sociability while on tour. Peg. Quote from the road: "It's not the next day until you've slept. Why, I remember a Thursday with 2 or 3 sunrises." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 12:17:25 EST From: CRING at VNET dot IBM dot COM Subject: Re: What hit Fripp? > >From: Paul Martz >Subject: What hit Fripp? >> what did in fact hit Mr Fripp on Halloween night in Fort Worth, Texas? > >Obviously, it was a UFO. > UFO: Unidentified FRIPP Object .... (I couldn't resist....) Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:14:58 -0500 From: LOUSFC at aol dot com Subject: King Crimson on Conan O'Brien show Great performance as expected, but 2 nagging (minor) complaints: * Could "Dinosaur" have been any more abbreviated???? * Could Robert Fripp appear any more disinterested in what he's doing?? Great to have even this little tidbit on tape to savor & replay endlessly until next Tuesday at the Longacre!! 7th row, left side....I am salivating with anticipation. (Lovely image, that).... Later, Lou Fazio [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:54:41 -0500 From: MFISHER at VARIETY dot CAHNERS dot COM Subject: KC on Conan I stayed up late last night and caught (and taped!) Da Boyzz on Conan O'Brian last night. Interesting...they did this abridged version of "Dinosaur" (sans the mellifluous middle section)...and while RF isn't exactly known for being Mr. Cheery onstage, it certainly seemed to me that Robert was decidedly *un*happy about playing this particular TV venue. He was bundled up for arctic conditions and just looked like he was cold. Adrian and Tony were doing their level best at appearing to be having a good time, but after the wild fun I saw them have at the House of Blues gig in LA, this was clearly work to them. (I mean, it *is* kinda silly; drag all that gear in, set it all up, play one song in the last 5 minutes of the show, tear it all back down...) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "ToddM" Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 15 Nov 1995 12:22:48CST6CDT Subject: KC on Late Night with Conan O'Brien Saw the show and watched them play. Tried to videotape it but it got munged and all I got was noise. Just as well, I guess. A very good performance of the abbreviated version of "Dinosaur". Belew looked happy, so did Bruford. I still love it that Bruford's kit matches his bright yellow sportcoat. Trey and Pat looked off to the side a bit, but animated. Pat's drum kit was PURPLE and he was standing over it playing various sundry percussion and drums while Bruford remained seated. Trey moved back and forth and was nearly as animated as Belew. It appears that he was using a WarrGuitar instead of stick and was dancing on a massive bank of effects pedals. Tony was in view doing his backup vocal and bass thing he does so well. The guy is so poised it's ridiculous. Belew played Stratocaster, of course and let of some choice squeals at the coda before coming in with the synthesized strings. His vocal was so "on" it sounds like the flew the vocals off the master tape and pumped it through the PA, but there he was singing it. Fripp looked very relaxed and while playing his short "Dinosaur" solo appeared almost as if he was considering laundry to do back at the hotel, but it was obvious he was concentrating on the matters at hand - his tone was amazing. It looked like he was playing an old Les Paul goldtop. It appears he had a Roland GR-1 synth on top of his effects rack (or refrigerator, shall I say?) All in all, I hope it bodes more success for the band. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "ToddM" Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 15 Nov 1995 12:28:12CST6CDT Subject: Another Comment: Tossing Stuff On-stage Years ago I attended a Zappa concert in 1981 at the Northrup Auditorium just off the University of Minnesota where some inebriated individual tossed a large industrial-strength toilet plunger onstage. The plunger bounced about and came dangerously near to a rack of guitars on stands adjacent to where Steve Vai was positioned on stage. The band, being in the middle of a song at this point, specifically "Cocaine Decisions" came to a dead halt. Frank, being the kind of person he was, stated "whoever tossed their plunger on-stage must COME TO THE FRONT OF THE STAGE AND CLAIM IT, ELSE THERE WILL BE A TOTAL, PERMANENT CESSATION OF MUSIC." He meant it and I didn't blame him. The idiot(s) came up, claimed their plunger and security promptly escorted the idiot(s) out. The audience then thunderously acclaimed Frank's decision. At that point, the band, without missing a beat went back into the point at which the music was interrupted and finished the tune. Sure beats tossing a CD on stage, but it can be dangerous, too. Think if a plunger had hit someone on the head or trashed equipment. Ouch. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:31:51 -0600 From: gdstrip at edge dot net (George and Dianne Stripling) Subject: Happy ET Mr. John Quinn wrote: >Sir, you are visiting Rome; please do as the Romans. The Romans simply ripped off the culture of the people they slaughtered. I do not intend to behave this way. >It may take several strolls around the town (or several issues of this >digest) >to become acquainted with its customs and mores. As of Issue 238, I have received, read, and archived 21 issues of ET. I did not subscribe to ET so I could tiptoe around the likes of your tulips. I am a fan of Robert Fripp and King Crimson, although sometimes I ask myself why considering all of the close minded people that share my appreciation. I can certainly understand how Mr. Fripp and company have grown tired of communicating with there fan(atic)s. >I believe you will better enjoy ET when you've had a chance to discover >what it >is, and will more fully understand the assorted posts once you've >developed a >better sense of their contexts When did I ever say anything about not enjoying ET? Just what is ET? How about some help with "placing these posts in context"??!! Why does everyone seem to think that a vague, general response is appropriate? Is this how you greet a new subscriber, with contempt and snobbery for my supposed ignorance!? <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> George Stripling Jr. gdstrip at edge dot net http://edge.edge.net/~gdstrip/ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:25:46 -0800 From: richie at nova dot net dot com (Richard Schiavi) Subject: fripper-kindness Continuing On the previous "Re: Fripp-Off" thread: Hmm, just because Fripp is an artist doesn't make him any more or less of a human being. He walks upright and breaths Oxy like the rest of us. And because his music is crafty and unique, doesn't mean his stardom like actions and personality any better than say someone like Billy Ray Cyrus or more geniune than someone like Mike Watt. But with Fripp, because he speaks in big words and is supposed to be this intelligent introspective guy, that can take away from his social and human qualities and make it ok, cuz he is ever so deep? If Fripp wants to act loften and in a distance above and apart from his fans, then that is his business, but one's profession, career or financial stature should never cause distance in the human spirit and kindness in general. . . I've never met him so can't really say, but he looks geniune to me, but appears he is very anal retentive about things social and the whole stardomismismsismsism. It wouldn't break my heart if he didn't shake my hand or look me in the eye. It wouldn't really phase me. I'd probably try to think about it for a while to try to understand "him", but not direct any particular emotion but pure quandry into why a man would behave in such a way. Or what makes him play and live the life he has chosen? To stop and think about it is better then to be angry about it. I don't have people trying to shake my hand all day or trying to take my picture, so can't say what I'd do or how I'd react. I do know a smile or hello from a stranger when walking down the cold and lonely streets of life can really make ones day! Robert's attitude seems to be heavily focused on Zen and stuff like that. Does anyone know if he trains in Martial Arts. He look like a Tai Chi guy to me. . . In retrospect, how friggin' hard is it to take a deep breath, look someone in the eye, hold out your hand, and scream, "HOW YA DOIN!!!!!" -Rich >Well, Randy get ready for the deluge of replies from those who will defend >Fripp to the death. By the time this is over they will try to make you >feel like YOU should apologize to Fripp for "bothering" HIM. Some will >excuse his behavior by saying, "he's an artist," or point to the fact that >you "the Obnoxious American" violated Fripp's "British Sensibilities." >Many will fault you for having "the nerve" to actually want to communicate >with someone who has touched your life through their art. I doubt many >will come to your defense. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 13:34:02 -0600 From: medtek at ghgcorp dot com (Sandra J. Prow) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #238 >Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:22:18 -0500 (EST) >From: Gideon B Banner >I've got an important question. This might not be the right, forum, but >hey, here goes: Are there any opinions out there as to what sort of >substances one might want to ingest before attending a Crimson show? I've >been wondering if I should or not, and other people's opinions might help. You should eat a good dinner and drink plenty of liquids, Gideon. IMO, this music is best taken in unimpaired. The intensity alone is enough to harm you. ~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~| http://www.ghgcorp.com/medtek Sandra J. Prow | I don't represent anyone, medtek at ghgcorp dot com | Not that anyone medtek at bix dot com | Would want me to.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 13:28:39 -0600 (CST) From: Le Monsieur Damon Subject: re: what hit Fripp... I said: > I *still* think it was a plastic cup. I stand corrected. :) Damon Capehart | UTD Student Govt. Assoc., Communications Committee; dcapehar at utdallas dot edu | Society of Physics Students [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: fred at d2 dot com (Fred Raimondi) Subject: What to ingest before a KC show. Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:38:54 -0800 (PST) Gideon Wrote: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:22:18 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: WHAT HIT FRIPP IN THE HEAD I've got an important question. This might not be the right, forum, but hey, here goes: Are there any opinions out there as to what sort of substances one might want to ingest before attending a Crimson show? I've been wondering if I should or not, and other people's opinions might help. Thanks. I replied: I've always found a cheeseburger, with a side of fries to be the perfect thing for US shows. Fish and Chips for UK shows. But that's just me. Fred Raimondi [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 12:08:16 PST From: "Allen Huotari" Subject: RF's attitude towards fans in the liner notes to "The Compleat National Health", keyboardist Dave Stewart relates an incident in which a fan stops him to ask (in all sincerity) if it's true that drummer Pip Pyle is made completely of metal. so what's this to do with KC or Robert Fripp's attitude towards fans? just this...for every tale of a bizarre encounter that someone of marginal notoriety (such as Dave Stewart) has, I'm sure that RF could relate ten times as many similar anecdotes as a consequence of public encounters during his quarter century plus as a professional musician no small wonder that RF has a definite aversion to contact with the public after all, KC fans come in all shapes, forms, colours, sizes, etc., but unfortunately the ratio of rude, boorish, obnoxious fans to erudite, pleasant, and charming fans (the typical ET subscriber ?) is probably a ratio of 3:1 to 9:1 (if the behavior of those in attendance at Crimson gigs is any indication) doubly unfortunate is that RF has no way of knowing beforehand whether the person approaching him for conversation is a drooling, gibbering maniac or someone who sincerely wishes to express appreciation for his artistry before I go on, let me state that I do not wish to be an apologist for RF, certainly his attitude towards fans could be a little more friendlier and clearly lies in stark contrast to the geniality of the remaining band members but the standoffish RF, shunning contact, reluctant for involvement has not always been the case for example, during the first Frippertronics tour, RF would very calmly and patiently answer questions and sign autographs for one to two hours after the gig. A direct attempt at demystifying the rock star image and establishing close contact. this despite the fact that the q&a session often provoked some incredibly stupid questions and also despite the fact that people during the performance would scream out "Schizoid Man" or could clearly be seen recording and photographing the performance in direct opposition to RF's pre-gig requests that these not occur (whether you agree with his position or not is immaterial for the moment. Suffice it to say that these folks probably did manage to irk RF just a tad). but perhaps this was because in q&a situations RF is in control and the meeting is not spontaneous. Comments anyone? moving on in history, I directly witnessed a pair of offenses at the RFSQ gig at the Strand in Redondo Beach CA a couple of years ago. Three friends of mine (their actual names are withheld to insulate the guilty...no, make that the stupid), and I arrived very early to obtain some prime seating and just to relax and chat. After about 30 minutes, and with less than a dozen people in the venue, RF came in and sat down at the table next to us with a cup of coffee and a book. I don't mind admitting that this was pretty exciting but the three of us who could see him kept cool about it. Clearly, not a good moment to approach him. But the fourth member of our party (let's call him Steve), had his back to RF's table and could not see him seated very closely behind. We managed to discreetly inform him of RF's presence to which he immediately jumped up, abruptly whirled around, in the act nearly upending our own table, thrust his hand into RF's face and blurted "HIROBERTMYNAMEISSTEVEGLADTOMEETYOU!" This completely startled RF (as it would most people) and with a look of wide-eyed terror (?) he quickly waved his hands back and forth and rapidly shook his head no. RF grabbed his coffee, his book, and made tracks for the dressing room. Of course we gave Steve unmerciful hades for scaring RF away. But it doesn't end there! About 1/2 hour later, another friend (let's call him Mike) is telling Steve a long involved story about RF that he heard from someone else. I lost interest and chatted quietly off to the side with the fourth party member. Suddenly I see my friend glance wide eyed over my shoulder. I turn to find that RF had returned and was standing directly behind Mike and it appeared as if he was waiting for a pause in the conversation in order to say something. Unfortunately, at that moment Mike's story concluded with the punchline "of course, this proves that Fripp is a completely arrogant and egotistical asshole" (sorry, but I'm quoting). There is no way RF could not have heard this little jewel of a pronouncement. I glance at RF and he gets a sorrowful, disappointed look on his face (not exactly a hurt look though, more like he had hoped for and expected a civilized conclusion to the story), sadly shakes his head, and walks away. So there you have it, my near encounter with RF. We gave Mike and Steve increased hades for intimidating RF twice in one evening. Had RF returned to apologize for his reaction earlier? As apology and compensation would RF have invited us for a cup of coffee or an opportunity to meet Trey G. and the CGT backstage? I guess that's something I'll never know. Thanks guys... well, to conclude I hope that you understand that RF probably has sufficient reason to distrust his "loyal following" is RF rude? maybe is RF arrogant? possibly is RF eccentric and idiosyncratic? definitely is RF justified in his aversion to public contact? from my personal observations and imho, yes and here's a final hint: consider your personal appearance. If you're wearing a grubby, worn tee shirt and reek of the six pack and garlic anchovy pizza you wolfed down before the show, RF probably won't want to speak to you and neither will anyone else (btw, Dave Stewart assured the fan that it was true, indeed, Pip Pyle was made completely of metal) apologies for the lengthy post and apologies for focusing on personalities rather than on the music [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:06:16 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: KC on Conan / a substance for Gideon Hi Well, I watched it....Feh! I have never seen another person on TV look so miserable as our Bobby. He appeared to be having a terrible time. The other five seemed to be handling it OK, but not our Artist-in-Residence. I can only assume that they made him sit in the lights. Probably the only time an audiece has seen him plainly in years. I get it! He's really a vampire!!! And what was with the parka? It made him look exceptionally porky. To Gideon B Banner (giedeon dot banner at yale dot edu): I dunno, hemlock? Cheers (I'm having a bad day), CV [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Kirkdorffer Date: 15 Nov 95 16:43:42 EDT Subject: King Crimson: Conan O'Brian TV Show -- November 14, 1995 Did anyone see King Crimson play Dinosaur on the Conan O'Brian show the other day? Fripp certainly seemed relaxed, focused and in his own world -- staring somewhat blankly with a rather impenetrable (maybe this evening, bemused?) gaze into middle distance all the while executing his Dinosaur licks. And, lo! Plenty of light and close-ups on Fripp's face revealed more age (and possibly fatigue) than many of us will see, even with front row seats. Did, anyone else get a John Lee Hooker vibe from this rock-elder(ly) as he sat on his chair? Surprisingly, the camera team were very adept and prepared to focus on a stoic Fripp and a bouncy Belew each time they contributed key melodic licks and solos. Unfortunately, this close attention to Fripp & Belew (and to a lesser extent Bruford & Levin) left very little camera time showing Mastelotto or Gunn. After the song, Conan did a customary thank you to the band and reached a hand out to Adrian, which Adrian accepted heartily. Then Conan reached back to shake Fripp's hand. Fripp, seemed a little surprised/unprepared, but quickly reaches forward a way bridging some distance and shakes Conan's hand. Good for you Conan! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 14:51:38 GMT From: neputnya at fishnet dot net (G Garner) Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #234 Hi there pals! Saw the Big Red Fella on Conan O'Brian last night. It was pretty rough trying to stay awake & interested, especially during that last obnoxious guest my wife and I thought would never stop talking! We kept saying "Please don't bump them, please don't bump them!", but finally, at about 1:23 AM the lads appeared. Performing "Dinosaur" (as I predicted) they seemed a little hesitant at first, but soon all fears were allayed as confidence and energy level increased. An abbreviated ending caused me some dissapointment, but hey, this is network TV. Can someone please tell me what in the wake of Poseidon was Fripp wearing? Kinda looked like a caftan from a Linda Richards garage sale, or maybe something judged to progressive a costume for Deep Space Nine. At any rate, it sure looked comfy. By the way, I made a Hi-8 recording of the event, if anyone missed it or would like a copy, email neputnya at fishnet dot net. I also taped the Conan & Andy stare-down contest, if anyone's interested. I remain yours, Inhaled Some Pails of Rice - G. Garner [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:05:36 -0500 From: Ajbas at aol dot com Subject: Greetings + KC LIVE, etc. Hey there fellow Crimsonites, This is my first post, so I'll start by giving Toby the obligatory "thanks" for doing such a great job with E-Talk. I have learned a great deal about my favorite band in the last few weeks from reading the various posts. As I write this, I am trying to stay awake after faithfully staying up until 1:30 a.m. to catch the Connan O'Brien show last night. Dino-short!!! I missed the break in the song, damn TV format! Was very strange to see them on the box, though. Despite the shoddy camera work, I was able to see Mr. Fripp in direct light (there goes that vampire theory). Thanks to my nifty on-the-spot-editing, my VCR cassette now has the Max Weinberg (sp?) Seven playing the Dick Van Dyke Show theme song followed directly by Dinosaur. Very strange combination, I must say. Ultra-brief history: My name is Andrew, I am a bass player in a band called The Visitors from the San Francisco Bay Area. After falling in love with Close to the Edge, I had to know where BB went, and why he went there. I found a used LTiA lp, saw 1973 and BB on it, and I bought it. Now I knew WHERE he went. I could not understand WHY he did for quite a few years, though. Now, I understand. My oh my, what a variety of opinions we all have, huh? Great to have so many ideas floating around. It gets my mind thinking. The only posts that I have found really disturbing were the Fripp-Flame-o-Rama titled "Fripp-off" in #236 (courtesy Randall Powell) and the "I'll be at home with my headphones on." in #237 (David Beardsley). I think Randall has been sent some very articulate responses already, so I'll leave that alone. But hey, David, you'll never get the same experience of seeing KC live by sitting at home with a walkman! Crimso is a LIVE band, even the live recordings don't do them justice, you really have to see this band to appreciate what they are doing. What makes the live experience different? The interaction between NOT only the band members, but between the band AND the audience. For better or for worse. You give me the impression you would like to see everyone in the crowd sitting silent and motionless, so as not to disturb anyone. Well, what I'm saying is that these disturbances can ADD to the whole experience. I remember from the show in Berkeley people yelling, "I wish you were here to see it," trying to guess when Adrian would come in. Rather than be annoyed with it, Adrian used it to build the excitement to a peak. I guess if you don't want any distractions as you listen to music, studio albums are great, but they will always give you the SAME experience. Now nobody likes the drunk jerk yelling, "Freebird," especially Mr. Fripp, but if Fripp were to choose your solution, there would be no live Crimso. He, too, would be at home with headphones on. Don't let losers from the past keep you >from living today!!! ; ) Thanks again, Toby! (sorry this is so long!) Andrew (ajbas at aol dot com) P.S.> I can't find the post, but someone was talking about KC x-drummer Ian Wallace - he was in The Warriors in the mid-sixties (w/Jon Andreson of Yes), he was also the drummer for David Lindley and El-Rayo-X, and he appears on all three studio albums (all very good). [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 19:23:58 -0600 From: medtek at ghgcorp dot com (Sandra J. Prow) >Subject: KC on Conan > > Did anyone tape KC on Conan O'Brien? > > I tuned in and watched the whole show, but the station >that I get NBC on, cut in right at the end segment, right before >KC went on. They were showing the docking of the U.S. and the >Russians (or whatever they are now) space stations. >Who cares? Anyway, they came back to the program at the last chorus. >I missed practicaly the whole thing. Could someone please make me >a copy? I would do anything. Please, please, please. 1. Our NBC station in Houston, the 4th largest city in the US, doesn't carry Conan. We stayed up late only to be rewarded with Jenny Jones in a Rabbit suit. (not a BUNNY suit, a Rabbit suit. Halloween show.) We taped all early morning programming hoping to catch Conan, with no luck. 2. Who cares about Mir docking? I do. The people on board are my friends and coworkers. When the Americans return to earth, I'll be among the first to see them. Besides, I have equipment that's being transferred from the Shuttle to the Mir that I worked very hard on developing. It's the last flight of this particular incarnation of the equipment and I'm sad to see it go. 3. I would also like a copy of the tape. Email me as well? Pretty please? ~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~| http://www.ghgcorp.com/medtek Sandra J. Prow | I don't represent anyone, medtek at ghgcorp dot com | Not that anyone medtek at bix dot com | Would want me to.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:19:37 -0800 From: SezZ at eworld dot com Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #238 >Is it possible that you've been a fan for quote 20 years unquote and you >haven't heard Fripp's opinion of the potentially vampiric relationship >between audience and performer? The mid-70 band was disbanded for this >reason. He never signs autographs at a show or talks to anyone in the >traditional sense. He communicates with his music on stage. I met Fripp after a Crimson show in '73. It was the Bruford, Wetton, Cross, Frip version of the King and they had just finished peeling the paint off the walls of the Long Beach Sports Arena. I was in High School at the time and had been a Crimso fan since the first album. Great show. Insanely great. My friends and I waited by the limo's outside the sports arean after the show, and we got to talk with Fripp and Bruford. Wetton just blew past us (bloody rude) and I don't think any of us recognized Cross. Anyway, Fripp was very talkative then. He had a beautiful woman on his arm and I seem to remember lots of "fur" for some reason. We asked him how he gets his ideas for songs (duh...hey, we were in high school) and he gave us quite a speech citing his influences and how he "talks to the wind", etc. No, really, he actually said that. Finally Bruford practiacally dragged him to the limo as it was beginning to look like he was going to hold court all night right there in the parking lot. The whole scene was quite surreal, very over our heads, and its been the source of many a "brush with greatness" story for me ever since. Well, fast forward to the Wiltern theatre this past summer. Over 20 years later, and my wife, some friends and I are waiting outside by the van that is apparantly going to take the band back to the hotel. We had actually met Belew, Leven, and Bruford earlier in the day at the restaraunt next door. They had "meal tickets" from the Wiltern. Anyway, there was a crowd of about 15 people waiting for the band to come out. The first one was Belew who was carrying his laundry and was very personable and seemed to genuinely enjoy chatting with everyone. He signed a number of autographs, and my Thrak program and Young Persons Guide book. Then Bruford comes out as Belew moves to the van, he is very chatty, looks virtually the same as when I met him in '73 (very tall) and actually apologizes for making us wait so long. He signs a lot of autographs too. Everyone is having a ball, everyone is very happy and the mood is generally upbeat. He moves along to the van just as Fripp comes out. Suddenly the whole area gets dead quiet. Fripp just lowered his head and started walked slowly up the ramp towards the van. Trey Gunn is sort of "hiding" behind him at this point. The entire crowd that had just moments before been surrounding Bruford and "chatting gayly" was now dead quiet and actually parted down the middle as if it were Moses parting the Red Sea. No one said a word, and more than a few people looked at Fripp as he passed, then actually averted their eyes. No joke. No exaggeration. This was the oddest thing I had ever seen. And I know everyone there was thinking exactly what I was thinking. I would have loved just to say hi to the guy and a nod would have done nicely in return, but I , like everyone else I guess, was just too worried that he would have "chastised" me. Publicly. By Fripp. It would have been devastating. No one was willing to take that chance. I know how the gentleman who got the brush off feels. I have been a HUGE fan of Fripp for years, and I've been there for the good stuff and the not so good stuff. I have EVERYTHING he's recorded, and he has always been able to count on my support whether he knows it or not. And yeah, it would be cool to get his autograph, and just say "Thanks" for all the great music over the years, but remember we're talking about Robert Fripp here. If he wasn't a bit strange we wouldn't be talking at all because there would be no Crimso to talk about. He's supposed to be "out there" and "on the other side of the fence". Maybe he is a bit over the top with the fan thing, but...hey, thats why I like his music...its WAY over the top. Personally I think he's missing out on just how cool his fans are, and thats too bad. But thats the way he wants it and we have to respect that. By the way, Levin came out right afterwards and actually remembered my wife from earlier in the day. Man, that was a big thrill for her. Thanks Tony if you read this. We both appreciate it. **************** +===+ o +===+ | | /|\ | | |~~~| Co-"=|~~~| - The Road Goes on Forever |___| / \ |___| **************** - Sez [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:52:00 +0800 From: John dot Lukes at Ebay dot Sun dot COM (John Lukes) Subject: Fripp's Attitudes: Another Perspective! The most recent ET Digest (#238) included more comments and viewpoints regarding "Fripp the man" versus "Fripp the artist." Here's more (hopefully) thought-provoking comments: The discussion around whether Mr. Fripp is a "nice guy" or not, reminds me of the analogy of the "spy glass" (the hand held telescope). With a spy glass, it depends on your perspective, that is, which end you look into, whether you will see the objects very large or very small. My point is that the objects being viewed, you (the viewer), and the spy glass itself did not change -- it was all in how you looked THROUGH it (again, your perspective). By changing one's perspective (by looking through the `other end'), for instance, one could argue that it was the fan standing by Mr. Fripp's table (albeit, patiently) as he was deeply engaged in a private conversation with someone -- even if in a public setting -- who was the one being rude! In that light, Mr. Fripp was simply asserting his right to privacy (which I see as an honest act). Remember that Mr. Fripp has indicated in interviews that he puts "Robert Fripp the Performer" on (like an overcoat) before going on stage and takes him off when leaving the stage. And, further, even rudeness is a matter of perspective. If a hundred unrelated people from various cultural backgrounds were to observe Mr. Fripp as he was dealing with a "fan intrusion," how would they "see" it? I remember reading about Johnny Carson using a handgun to hold an exuberant fan at bay while the police came to arrest the person for trespassing. Was that necessary? I don't know, I wasn't there. I'm sure that "fan" can tell people how rude Johnny was to them. And I'm sure Johnny can talk about worrying about "loonies" who sometimes attack the objects of their devotion -- John Lennon, being one. Perspective. What a concept! -JOHN [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:47:40 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin Subject: Re: Bowie & Fripp >From: Le Monsieur Damon >Subject: Bowie & Fripp > >Orn Orrason mentioned something about Bowie's not using Fripp because the >other guy was more convenient. (Mick Ronson?) Robert was somewhat more readily available than Ronson. Mick would have had to overcome a _major_ obstacle to make it to those sessions. You see, he died a few years ago. The guitarist on _Outside_ is Reeves Gabrels (sp?) who was a member of Bowie's Tin Machine band and is a fine musician. Not someone to "settle" for. -Adam --- "A baked potato is more intelligent than a raw potato." - G.I. Gurdjieff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:11:51 -0500 From: DCOBobW at aol dot com Subject: Alice: Charade CD David A. Craig writes: <> The CD is by Alice on WEA, #0630-10417-2, from Warner Music Italy. I purchased my copy from the Tower Records near Lincoln Center in New York City for about $17. It was racked in International, under Italy, with a separate divider for Alice. They had several other Alice CDs in stock in addition to Charade. - Bob Wayne, dcobobw at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 23:14:42 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (ET Mailing List) Subject: Fripp boganp at alpha dot montclair dot edu wrote... > I realize that there are musicians who, like the rest of us, place a > certain value on their privacy. However, music, especially if one's > going to take it on the road and expose it to both the enjoyment and > the criticism of the public, is, by nature, a very public event. As > such, it calls for a com- promise on the musician's/artist's part, > requiring that he and the audience meet each other halfway. It strikes me - and it sounds like many others - that Fripp is rather willing to take the fan's money but rather less willing to actually thank them for it. I think the answer to this is to accept the dichotomy; that great and innovative music can be made by someone who apparently appears to be personally repellant. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Dickson [Team OS/2], Black Cat Software Factory, Musselburgh, Scotland mike at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk - Fax 0131-653-6124 - Columnated Ruins Domino ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Peter" Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 02:32:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239 Hi. I'm not sure if there will be a digest sent out before Saturday, so this may be outdated, but if anyone is going to the New Haven show on 11/18 and wants to get together for a drink before the concert, e-mail me and let's talk! The discussion of Fripp's brushing off incident(s?) was/is very interesting to me, as I find the way that people (myself included) feel the need to deify musicians a fascinating phenomenon. I remember my first concert- Billy Joel when I was 15 years old- and the feeling of "Oh God I can't believe I'm in the same building as Billy Joel!!!" And seven years later I still do the same thing, as I undoubtedly will/did on Saturday night. I'm going with the anti-Fripp crowd on this, despite my enormous respect for him as a musician, and my admiration for much of the philosophical and ethical stuff I've seen. Gotta admit, doing a low budget solo tour of record stores and pizza parlors in the midst of the excesses of the late 1970s took cajones! However, there is such a thing as courtesy, and trying to say hello to someone is not sufficient grounds to get blown off by them. There's being a private person who tries to avoid the adulation of his fans, and then there's being Rude. Pete [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 23:56:12 From: WhytNoise at gnn dot com (Stan Jones) Subject: A few things Greetings all ETers, A few comments. Has anyone ever happened to notice the extreme variety found in people one meets? I have, and I for one have never taken offense at anyones actions that may fall into the catagory as peculilar for the lone reason that these actions do not equal those of the assessor or of what the assessor is acustomed to being exposed to. Mr. Fripp's so called rudeness, to me, has never been more than an aspect of his personality which in no way augments or detracts from any musical accomplishments. Attending a show featuring A League of Gentelman (Crazy Horse, Georgetown, Washington D.C., 1980?), Mr. Fripp (as Tiny Desk Unit played), walked past me, stood watching the band, then returned to 'backstage'. I didn't personally know the man, he didn't know me, I had nothing to say, nor did he. Later in the show, as the League was performing, I was up front dancing with an unknown woman and we were having the time of our lives. I looked at Mr. Fripp on his stool, he apparently liked the effect the band was having on me and my unknown companion and smiled the warmest of smiles one could know. More than I asked for that night and obviously will not be forgotten. Enough there, new subject. We still don't know what the object was that hit Mr. Fripp on his head, but I swear it came from 'the grassy knoll'. Another subject. Good bye. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:09:56 -0800 From: tcona at ix dot netcom dot com (Anthony J. Cona,Jr. ) Subject: Belew.... Zappa....Bowie....Talikg heads...Crimson I read the article posted about Belew leaving Zappa to go with Bowie and thought that it might be wise for all of you to check out the interview with Belew that and and a friend of mine did with Belew in May of 1990,while he was touring with Bowie.You can find it on Belew's web page,where the entire interview is posted.In it he tells of his entire career up to that point.It is a very informative interview with Adrian Belew in which he reveals all in his own words.If you want to know the truth about the kind of person and musician that Adrian Belew is check it out. you'll find it at: http://www.iglou.com/hermit/adrian/ If you want to know who Adrian Belew really is read it! Tony Cona [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin) Subject: re ET 235-236-237 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 09:16:52 +0100 (MET) Following someone advice I read in ET 232, I bought Alice's "Charade". Well... It's quite nice, but nothing to jump on the walls. I't's a pleasant record, but definitely no masterpiece. In some way it reminds me of this Tony Child's album with Gunn and Fripp. Pleasant, but... Tried to find Gitbox and the European Strg Chr, but it's not possible to have them in France, even by import. Oh, Aspic is a snake, and it's a specie's name that is still in use, at least in France. It's also deeply connected to magic and esoteric stuff, that leads me to this book from the discordians, since we know that the Discipline logo was an exact reproduction of the logo of the "book of Kells " (VIIIth century) . So, maybe this connection does not sounds that absurd... Esoterism and Crimson King go hand byhand from the very beginning. Someone asked about Bartok mode (Mr TAJTHY), and Hungarian modes. So, this is gonna be quick (I'm no harmony book, and that maybe not interesting to others frippomaniacs. Since I don't know what is your level in harmony, let's start real basic. The C major scale is (white keys of a keyboard) C D E F G A B C (again). This scale is the base on which all usual harmony is conceived (there are others theories, like Ornette Coleman's Harmolody, or Russel's chromatic lydian, and a few others, but it's not the point). Well. Now, if you play this scale starting on A, you have a A minor natural scale. The root change, it doesn't sound the same but it is the same notes. That's the whole point, more about this later. This ways of thinking music (tonality) in term of, let's say, A major, G# minor, and so on is quite new it appeared just a little bit before J-S BACH, who was a promoter of the system (it is only about 200 years old). Before this time, music was thought in terms of modes (there were church modes), that is, a root and specific pattern of notes. Related to the C major scale, you have seven modes, containing the same notes. C ionian is Cmaj scale. D dorian is C major scale you would start on D, E phrygian is like a Cmajor you would start on the third degree, same with every notes. BUT you let sound, or reinforce, the D as a root of the mode (in D dorian mode, or a E in E phrygian mode), so it gives a colour which absolute different from C ionian (C major), although you play exactly the same notes. A mode has it's own colour, and can be recognise, as any scale. (sorry, I go very very quick, I hope I am still followed. Rereading this, it seems confusing more than explaining). That is for the modes. Now, there are different scales than major and minor natural. For example, you have minor melodic, minor harmonic, half tone- tone, whole tone, and so on, and synthetic modes. AH! Help! A minor melodic scale is like an hybrid between major whose degree will be written 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (In C: C, D, E, etc. etc. we already told this) and a natural minor (which would be 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7. In C: C D bE bF G A B C). It's formula is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 (in C: C D bE F G A B C). It's sometime referred at like minor jazz. It has of course seven modes related to it and the fourth (Lydian b7, what you have when you start a melodic minor scale its 4th degree) is called sometime "BARTOK mode" Geez, it was about time we get to this. Its "formula is 1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7. With C as a root it gives C D E #F G A bB (then back to) C. That is a C Lydian b7 or C "la Bartok". It's NOT finished. Sorry, you asked, it's your responsibility! In the time of the Greeks (the mode's name where taken from theirs, but have to see as far as music is concerned. Somebody found the name "Locrian" for example, thought it sounded good and used it for seventh mode of the major scale. The Greeks did not that) Music was thought in term of "tetra chords" (no sure of spelling in English) (means four notes, not four chords). For example, a major scale as 2 same tetra chords separated with 1 tone. C to D to E to F: 1 tone/ 1 tone/ 1 tone/ 1/2 tone. OK? now, surprise surprise... G to A to B to C: 1 tone/ 1 tone/ 1 tone/ 1/2 tone. Whaooo!!! So this tetrachord is sounding specifically ionian (or Major). If you take an other mode, you have differently organised tetra chords. Lydian is 1 2 3#4. Phrygian is 1 b2 b3 4. And you can construct synthetic modes using, a tetrachord from one mode, and one from another. (Well, everybody did it a long time ago, it is not brand new). Stick together a C phrygian tetrachord and a F lydian and you obtain... a mode called major Neapolitan. Or the old enigmatic mode used by Joe Satriani once. (1 b2 3 #4 #5 #6 7), or...AH AH! Here we got it! the Hungarians modes! (2 different modes: minor Hungarian is 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7. major Hungarian is 1 #2 3 #4 5 6 b7) If you change 1, 2, 3 etc. with C, D, etc. you have the notes for C major Hungarian or C minor Hungarian. Because it appeared that some synthetic modes were the same as some old "folkish" modes, so we have different Chinese modes, a Jew mode (also named Spanish Phrygian or Ahava Rabbah used by Miles Davis, in Nardis), two Hungarians modes, three Orientals, a bohemian, and some very odd sounding modes..... There an incredible lot of these, and you musician, should dig into this was it for the pleasure of discovering new colours. THAT'S IT!!! Hope I didn't bore too many people. I even hope some were interested in all this. To end all this about synthesisers, EVERY music intrument is a piece of technology, was a it a turtle with ropes. and each is a tool for working, which the most important part of the story. People who despise machines, think that samplers kill music/intelligence/imagination remember that actually, a RECORD IS A SAMPLE OF MUSIC, NOT THE REAL THING, so stop buying records, go the concerts (the real thing) since records have nothing to do music. Just a piece of technology that always produce the same sound the same way (even a sampler can do more than a CD player, when it comes with being musical and versatile). As far as clarity is concerned, don't be surprised your vinyl, although all these noises, sound better. From pure physics measurement, an old old old old 78 rnd/mn record already has more dynamics in low level than a CD. That's life. When in cool parts of a playing, a music, or whatever, you are not using the 16 bits of the CD but only 2, 3 some time even 1. Even the worst telephone has a better resolution. CD was designed for constant high level music. So when remasterised for digital tranfert, a record has to be adapted to those limitation of digital treatment, analog don't have (Ok, they have others...) Digital quality is more like a merchant masquerade, sold as High-tech quality. Boys, we have been fooled... I' ve also a comment to make about this synchro stuff someone wrote about. I have a whole theory about it but I guess you should wait until next posting!!!! because I'm gonna get edited by Toby... By folks... Whoops, last thing, in a Stick festival, I saw an album of two Stick players, >from a band named Kiss Of Death, but I'm not sure anymore, with a vocalist named Toyah Wilcox (hum hum...) The guys were, I think (not sure) Germans, any clues? Olivier "Thanx for listening" Malhomme. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:20:31 -0800 From: Steve Goodman Organization: EarthLight Productions Subject: A Fripp Remembrance Back during the '80 League of Gentleman tour, I picked up six tickets and went with a friend down to Asbury Park to see them, knowing it was going to be something different. Needless to say, on a teller's pay, the failure of four pals to show up to get their tickets, and therefore pay for them, caused us to have to live on 2 hot dogs and a beer apiece (for the carbohydrates, of course). I was faced with the uncomfortable (at least!) concept of selling tickets in front of the Fast Lane, which was impossible given the size of the bouncer out front. Alas, I turned towards a figure passing me with a multi-coloured umbrella as he passed up the street... and, as if passed through a delay, I suddenly realized that it was RF himself. After recovering >from a moment of shock, I stopped trying to sell the tix, and just went in. Some time later, I went up to the bar to get a club soda (they were free then), and while the bartendress was getting it, out of the corner of my eye, to my right - it was Fripp again, not three feet away, getting a tunafish sandwich and water, and walking right through the crowd, to my astonishment. I again noted this 'delayed reaction' effect, and this was reflected by the crowed as he passed through it, across the main dance floor, and it was as if a wake of delayed recognition followed him. Around three or four feet after he passed them, their heads would turn quickly, in possibly the same amazement, the "It's HIM" kind of look. Under Heavy Manners had just begun to surface in the New York City stores, and a number of New Yorkers were talking in terms of 'more than just frippertronics', though I thought I'd decide for myself. Of course, the League of Gentlemen hadn't been released yet, so it was a delightful surprise to hear the new material. They must have played most of the songs on the album, and the crowd was well-tempered, with the exception of one fellow (I think he's still chasing KC on tour, judging by someone at the LA shows in June/July!) who kept yelling out, "Yeah, Bob" and "Hey, Robert". I believe at one pause in the music, Fripp had advised him to put that energy into listening and maybe dancing to the music. At the end of the show, someone handed up a charicature of Fripp to him, whereupon he showed it to the cheering crowd, then handed it back to him. This would be consistent with the remnants of the Vampiric Nature situation, as well as the idea of discouraging any form of adoration in favor of perhaps emulation. Nonetheless, it was 2am or so by the time my friend and I got out of there. We headed up the New Jersey Turnpike, and, on the verge of falling asleep, headed into a rest stop, of the kind only the NJ Turnpike can provide [shudder]. The two of us continued to come down >from the show, and the exposure to the new material. Our brains were slowly coming back to life, over a donut and coffee apiece, when I noticed a van drive into the lot. A number of men and a woman got out, but it wasn't until the door opened and they all walked in that I realized that it was the band. I fought the shock to tell my friend, whose back was to all of this. We'd been having an exchange of religion jokes, and when the blood ran out of my face a little, and I looked over his shoulder and said, "It's HIM", he joked back, "God?" I was at a loss for words. They all went through the cafeteria and got something. I noticed that Fripp got a tunafish sandwich again. And then, as both of us went apoplectic, the entire band walked down our aisle on the way out. My friend and I were in as close as a catatonic state as you could get >from all this, when Fripp stopped at a nearby table, got a couple of sugar packets, and continued on out. Needless to say, we were awake enough to get home, and finished up quickly, hopped in the car, and took off north on the Turnpike again. Right around the place where the Turnpike splits off to the George Washington Bridge, we saw their van again, moving off into the darkness. Neither of us cared how late it was, nor that we both had to be at work at 8. It did seem like the 80s had started off well. But I'll never stop wondering whether he was giving us a chance to say something when he stopped for the sugar or not. S. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 03:05:11 -0600 From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (James Hines) Subject: HELP!! (again) PLEASE help me! If you're willing to get me a T-shirt at the upcoming KC gig that you're attending I'd so greatly appreciate it. E-mail me if you will do this small favor. I'll gladly pay all shipping costs and any other costs that may arise. I am desperate. Brockum does not supply merchandise >from the concerts so I'm stuck w/out your help. Lemme know asap if you'll do this for me. Thanks mounds. "Where's that confounded bridge?" THRAK on, James "THE MAN" Hines cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 03:31:02 -0600 From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (James Hines) Subject: Crimson on Conan All in all, I thought it was a good performance, but there were some problems. I really wish they hadn't done a cut version of Dinosaur. $100 says that if they had played Letterman last May, it would've been exactly the same. OK, the performance...Personally, I would've preferred Walking On Air to a cut Dinosaur. The middle section is the best part of the song! It was obvious that the band were pretty nervous, esp Tony. I was disappointed that they only showed like 1 shot of Pat and 1, maybe 2 shots of Trey. Robert and Adrian are not King Crimson. They are collectively 1/3 of the band. I knew that Adrain would get most of the shots (because he's singing and they couldn't do an instrumental, it just wouldn't show how the *full* band is-his vox is a good part of it.) and I'm also glad that they gave Fripp some really good shots. He definately wasn't that lighted at the gigs. His scarf was really cool as well. Afterwards, Fripp seemed very *odd* (can't think of a better word) about shaking Conan's hand. But did you see Trey? He nearly jumped to shake his hand! I've never seen him smile that big! The thing that disappointed me most was that it was not an adequate representation of King Crimson. I know, it was TV and they only had 5 minutes so an improv wouldn't have been in order, but it seemed that they compromised a bit by playing a cut version of the main single from the new album. Pop bands do that. To an average listener, Crimson were probobly just some band. If I was Joe-pop, that wouldn't have really made me want to see them live. For those of you who haven't seen them live, man, there's just so much energy there. And you can look at whomever you want. Pat and Trey play some great stuff on Dinosaur and it's too bad that they weren't shown. OK, maybe this isn't totally fair. It was so great to see them on national TV and hopefully someone out there will buy THRAK because of it. And just to hear Conan say the words "King Crimson" made me smile. My opinion: (as a whole) "I like it!!" THRAKking the night away, James "THE MAN" Hines cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 11:26:06 GMT From: cbackham at uk dot mdis dot com (Clive Backham) Subject: That speeded-up bit on Exposure.... In ET #239, I wrote: >Conclusion: given that the original speech is very likely to have lasted >more than 2 minutes, the chances of decoding it from Exposure are almost >certainly nil. > >Nevertheless, having convinced myself that it won't work, I've decided >to try the experiment anyway. Watch this space. Well, I transferred the segment in question to hard disk and played around with it. I tried slowing it down by factors of 3, 10, 30 and 100. At every step, all that I heard was the random static getting slower and lower, until such point that it was just a low rumble. Clive Backham McDonnell Information Systems, UK email: cbackham at uk dot mdis dot com PS. Lest I be thought of as some kind of obsessive nutcase for actually trying this out, I would just like to point out I normally only wear an anorak while skiing. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 08:45:08 -0600 From: gdstrip at edge dot edge dot net (George and Dianne Stripling) Subject: Re:last hope I find it amazing that so many ET subscribers will defend Mr. Fripp to the death when his attitude towards the public is the issue, but when a fellow subscriber seems to have an unpleasant disposition, everyone takes the oppurtunity to lecture on the benefits of a positive attitude. I find this openly hippocritical phenomenon repulsive. The notion that someone's "art" elevates them beyond a certain respect for others is stupid. I hope that someone will write me otherwise, for I seem to have lost all faith once again. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> George Stripling Jr. gdstrip at edge dot net http://edge.edge.net/~gdstrip/ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 09:35:59 EST From: acohen at lib dot com Subject: belew's lyrics Jeremy sez: : I occasionally see people criticize Adrian's lyrics. This is quite : strange : to me, as I see him as one of the better (hell, best, the market is : so bad) : lyricists out there. It can't be that I'm the only one on this list who thinks that Adrian Belew is the best lyricist Crimson has ever had -- by a wide margin, in my opinion. I've always found Pete Sinfield's lyrics to be *way* overwrought and pretentious (even when I was in high school), and Palmer-James wasn't much better (Health food faggot? Caught me licking fudge? Very amusing). Adrian may not be the most "serious" lyricist around, but he has a good way with words, and, as an instrumentalist (and the one who sings his own words), I think he's much more successful at integrating them into the music. Who else feels this way? --Art (PS Yes, I *love* the old Crimson and I bought "The Great Deceiver" as soon as it came out -- but I've always found the vocals and lyrics in old Crimson to be the most embarressing thing about them, especially when I'm trying to introduce them to someone new) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 10:06:02 -0500 (EST) From: Sanjay Krishnaswamy Subject: William Faulkner, Bridge Between, and rotational symmetry In response to Brian Ritchie in the previous ET I'd like to point out that (as I recall) the Discipline logo _does_ have a C2 axis (i.e. 180 degree rotational symmetry) only the axis is in the plane of the logo, not perpendicular to it. (Haven't seen any math for a while and lost on the language? Look at the thing, try hard, and maybe you'll figger out what I'm trying to say, and say it better.) BTW here's one of those half-assed Crimson philosophy posts for you to just ignore. I was reading RF's liner notes on the RFSQ album (Bridge Between) just after hearing the really dark "Threnody" at the album's end. I was surprised to read, that in fact they are about hope, and the musician creating the unreasonable phenomenon of hope. I am a Faulkner buff and recalled, of all things, Faulkner's Nobel Prize acceptance speech. Here, Faulkner, who was known for the _very_ dark _Absalom, Absalom!_ and other novels exploring human failure, hidden perversity, etc., stunned everyone by giving a speech about hope, man's infinite ability to suffer. So again, the theme: the artist explores misery, but his real focus is hope. I guess that's something I'm starting to see in some other really vicious Crimson music but it hasn't really gelled in my head yet -- thought I'd drop the idea into the well here and see what comes out. _______________________________________________________________________________ Sanjay Krishnaswamy skrishna at opal dot tufts dot edu skrishna at diamond dot tufts dot edu _______________________________________________________________________________ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:25:58 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Belew & Eno Someone was mentioning Eno's discovery of Belew, which kicked off an interesting memory I though you all might be interested in. Back in 1981 (or 1980, I forget) I attempted to see the League of Gentlemen at Irving Plaza in NYC. The warm-up band was called "Gaga" and featured (said a sign in the window) "Adrian Beleu". I actually remember standing behind him in the lobby waiting to get in, Adrian wearing a Hawaiin shirt he frequently sported in those days. Gaga was interesting, but had Adrian playing guitar, singing, and on taped drums (he did "Boys Keep Swinging", among other tunes). I thought his performance simultaneously brilliant and Geek-like (in the jazz sense, i.e., bite-the-head-off-a-chiken-for-a-buck). Becuase LOG was scheduled to come on at 1:00AM or so (and I had never attended a club date before), I had to get home to bad-ass Brooklyn. On my way out, there was Eno standing with a Japanese gal, stating that the black gentleman standing next to them was the guitarist on his next album. (Anyone know who that could be?) I tried to shake his hand, but the Japanese gal slid in front of me, causing me to evaporate. Sometime later "Remain in Light" by the Talking Heads (with Belew's best work ever) appeared. I read later that Eno had gone to the show to grab Adrian for that recording. Sometime later I saw the Talking Heads in central park (still before that album came out), and who should appear onstage in that same Hawaiin shirt but Belew. Soon after that, of course, came the 80s version of KC. -Emory. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:31:34 -0500 From: KCahalan at aol dot com Subject: Columbus Tickets I may be forced to part with two very good seats (2nd row, first balcony) for the Columbus show on November 27th. Anybody interested? $48 for the two. Or if anyone in Pittsburgh or Western Pennsylvania is interested in a road-trip. . . . . It'll break my heart to miss this show. My friend backed out and I can't find anyone else to make the trip. Please e-mail me ASAP at KCahalan at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 11:58:09 EST From: acohen at lib dot com Subject: You'll never tune up in this town again! Someone said: I read this. It strikes me as very amusing. Does Robert (or Trey?) think he is so big in the music industry that he can break another artist with a nod of the head? I really don't think anyone in KC went around calling record publishers telling them "don't every publish anything by...". And even if they did, the response would almost certainly be "Who cares what you think? You're not recording on my label." - - - Well, I suspect that he may have been speaking facetiously. On the other hand, I suspect that Tony Levin (and Pat M., for that matter) has done enough session work for just about everyone in the business, that he might have a little more "pull" than Robert or Trey. --Art [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 12:24:27 -0500 From: Otherroad at aol dot com Subject: Re: Ingesting "substances" I must say that I disagree with Leon Marcus' reply to Gideon Banner's inquiry on the perfect "substance" to ingest before a King Crimson concert. The perfect substance is, in fact, rootbeer and pizza (with lots of sausage). But seriously, I have to agree with Leon's sentiment. Altering one's state of conscious will only distort the event and hide the true beauty of it. But I'd like to take that one step further and say I would politely disagree with Leon's closing statement which I think was something to the effect of, "Do what suits you best." I remember in one of Bill Cosby's comedy routine's he addressed the subject of drugs, in this instance cocaine. He said he asked someone why they'd want to take that stuff anyway. The reply in a rather intense fashion was, "Because it intensifies your personality!" To which Cos replied, "Yes, but what if you're an asshole?" In other words, haven't we all had our share of stoned assholes at concerts marring what otherwise was a great event? Who of us wants to be sitting next to Gideon at this great show after he's "ingested his substance?" Gary [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 12:19:28 -0500 From: JimKlo at aol dot com Subject: Two Weeks From Today Two weeks from today will be the morning after what is rapidly becoming one of the most anticipated concerts I can remember...and there have been a lot of them in my almost 25 years of concert going. Thanks to fellow ET'ers with their wonderful descriptions of their concert experiences, me, my 15 year-old son and his three friends are now counting the days to see Fripp and Co. The Conan O'Brien appearance Tuesday night (Mr. Fripp, your guitar playing is truly remarkable. Know that it is influencing yet another generation of musicians), watched on tape repeatedly last night with my son, only serves to heighten the excitement. Judging from some of the concert descriptions, I sincerely hope that my son's first concert experience is not marred by drunken loutishness. Since this will be the first time that I have seen Crimson since I first was given ItCotCK as a Christmas present from my brother, I hope the same for myself. A closing comment re:the recent rash of Fripp bashing in ET over his reluctance to "press the flesh". While I would find it a great experience for my son and I to actually talk to any member of King Crimson after the concert, I also respect the artist's right to cringe in horror when approached by any member of the general public. How would you feel being approached continuously by some potentially drunk or stoned person that you wouldn't know from Adam? How do you react when a panhandler approaches you on the street? While I agree that any artist who depends on the public for their continued success should make themselves available on a limited basis to meet their fans face to face, I also realize that by performing in public, an artist is providing just that...the opportunity for their fans to experience their artistry live, first hand, and as it happens. What more do you want? As Steve Martin once said "I'd like to thank each and every member of the audience personally...thankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthank u" See you at the Rosemont! Jim K. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 10:02:09 -0800 From: Rob dot Rosen at West dot Sun dot COM ( Rob Rosen - SMCC Project Manager) Subject: 'Easy Money' lyrics Am I the only person who's noticed that the "studio" lyrics for 'Easy Money' differ somewhat from the "live" lyrics heard on various recordings of the mid-70s KC incarnation? Specifically, the "live" lyrics, if I'm hearing them correctly, appear to contain what some would consider to be a scatalogical reference. Has anyone else noticed this? If there's a story behind the difference (i.e., country or label censorship), I'm curious to hear it. thanks Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rob Rosen Project Management SMCC 510.463.5432 Rob dot Rosen at West dot Sun dot COM FAX:510.734.9910 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:35:33 -0800 From: jamjar at UVic dot CA (j r mabbott) Subject: What To Injest Before A KC Concert. Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:22:18 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: We have it! Final confirmation as to what hit Robert Fripp in the head! No more guessing, no more speculation, no more sleepless nights worrying about the Crimson King's health, no more! The truth has arrived! Its light will shine on all of us! And the truth is: It was a CD. What was the CD? I certainly hope it wasn't a CK CD. I've got an important question. This might not be the right, forum, but hey, here goes: Are there any opinions out there as to what sort of substances one might want to ingest before attending a Crimson show? I've been wondering if I should or not, and other people's opinions might help. I usually eat dinner. ;-) regards, j robert mabbott zaerrf music [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:35:55 -0800 From: jamjar at UVic dot CA (j r mabbott) Subject: Synthesizers Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:27:10 -0600 From: gdstrip at edge dot net (George and Dianne Stripling) Subject: re: sythesizers In ET #236, Gordon Emory Anderson wrote: >a synthesizer player is not able to dynamically and instaneously control >the overtones Being a keyboardist, guitarist, and a combination of the two, even with a stick for several years, I'd have to say that a synthesizer can do more than what MIDI will even ask it to do. In fact, with a synthesizer, I can do more than a dozen bands, and an entire orchestra, all by my self, and simultaneously. I just wish I actually had a CD of stuff that was ready so I could prove it. I can even recreate Robert Fripp's sound on the Soundscapes albums with a synthesizer, playing a guitar on a keyboard... you just need equipment with similar capabilities. regards, j robert mabbott zaerrf music [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:43:18 -0800 From: Rob MacCoun Subject: Celebrity encounters Woody Allen had a movie in the 1970s -- please don't respond with 12 ET posts reminding me which one -- that illustrated (viciously, but not unfairly) how truly vampiric fans can be, each approaching a celebrity and attempting to have a meaningful conversation that (a) touches the celebrity in some lasting way, and (b) provides a trophy anecdote to take home and show off at parties. So I'm sympathetic with Mr. Fripp. My new personal rule of thumb is: when opportunity and impulse strike, just say no! (Don't flame me; I said "personal" rule; do what you like.) I say "new rule" because in the past, almost everytime I had an opportunity to approach a celebrity in a contrived way, I've ended up feeling stupid, even when they've been gracious. I've had a few exceptions -- encounters that went well. One could argue that one juicy plumb outweighs the dozen lemons, but that only considers my side of the ledger, not the celebrity's side of the ledger. (Think of Kant's categorical imperative: what if everyone did what I do?) And my few good encounters all share in common that the celebrity actively solicited interaction with fans. Quick anecdote: mid-1980s, I encountered Brian Eno in a bookstore. Quick, think of a clever entree. Ah, I'll bet he doesn't know that his Oblique Strategies cards were cited (with a formal cite in the reference section) in the prestigious 1985 edition of the HANDBOOK OF SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY. "Mr. Eno, did you realize BLAH BLAH BLAH...?" He looked at me quizically and said, in a friendly but bemused tone, "sounds utterly boring." And went his way. To understand how deflated I felt, you have to realize that as a budding young social psychologist, in 1985 I actually believed that to be cited in the HSP was a profoundly important event. And the notion that Eno (from my secret personal life) would be cited there (in the bible of my new professional life) was remarkable to me, and hence should seem remarkable to him! Now, older, more professionally secure, and more jaded, I laugh at what a geek I was. But I wouldn't do it over again. Having said all this, my dirty confession is that I love reading everyone else's celebrity encounter anecdotes. Go figure. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 14:50:21 -0500 From: Ajbas at aol dot com Subject: Re: Where do they get off . . . In ET #239, david at visix dot com (David Charlap) writes . . . > Subject: Trey Gunn's road diary > Excepted from http://www.rockslide.com/crimson/trey/diary.html: > >When we were in ...... Dallas???...... during the bows at the end of > >the show some idiot threw his CD and it hit Robert right in the > >head. Though it obviously wasn't a malicious act, the stupidity was > >unbelievable. Not only will this loser's CD never be heard by any of > >us, HE'LL NEVER WORK IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS AGAIN. > I read this. It strikes me as very amusing. Does Robert (or Trey?) > think he is so big in the music industry that he can break another > artist with a nod of the head? David, I think you took what Trey wrote in is diary a little too seriously! I think he meant it as more of a joke. And why are you mentioning Robert at all? This is from TG's diary, not RF's! > I really don't think anyone in KC went around calling record > publishers telling them "don't every publish anything by... I agree with you, I'm sure none of the band made any phone calls. > Robert should realize that he (and King Crimson in general) is not a > superstar band. To me, they are. > Record companies are not going to bow down and kiss > his feet. Maybe they would if he was on the level of Pink Floyd (who > manage to sell out football stadiums), but he's nowhere near that > level of popularity. I think after being in the music business for over 30 years now, Mr. Fripp realizes exactly who he (and King Crimson in general) is. Pink Floyd? I can hear RF's chuckles now . . . > I think he's a very good musician (at least the stuff he's done with > KC), but record companies don't care about talent or music. They only > care about what will sell. Talk about an overgeneralization!!! Sorry, it's just not that black and white. Besides, who says they know what will or won't sell? (I can't believe you've got me defending record companies ;) ) Andrew (Ajbas at aol dot com) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 14:50:18 -0500 From: Ajbas at aol dot com Subject: Belew's Lyrics In ET #239, Tefkros Symeonides writes . . . > The lyrics in the three 81-84 albums are unquestionably...well...terrible. Now come on, Tefkros, even IYHO, terrible? Terrible is a very strong word. I reserve terrible for, well, turn on the radio [insert band here]. ;) But seriously, that's not fair compairing the best from PS or RPJ to Heartbeat. Come on, how about: Here is the angel of the world's desire, Placed on trial, To hide in shrouded alley silhouettes, With cigarette coiled, To strike at passing voices, Dark and suspect, Here is the howling ire. Here is the sacred face of rendezvous, In subway sour, Whose grand delusions prey like intellect, In lunatic minds, Intent and focused on, The long thin matches, To light the howling fire. Alright, get a hold of yourself, An' don't fight it, it's over your head. :) (just kidding!) Andrew (Ajbas at aol dot com) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 19:56:28 GMT From: buckley at csra dot net (Peter Dell'olio) Subject: CONAN, ATLANTA i SAW "DINOSAUR " LAST NIGHT ,WOW!!!!! I WENT TO BOTH SHOWS IN ATLANTA OVER THE WEEKEND .tHEY ARE HOT!!! I WORK FOR A RADIO STATION DOWN HERE AND THE SOUTHERNERNS LOVE THE NEW CRIMSON.......I LOVE IT ALL INCLUDING LIZARD!!! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 15:09:44 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Lyrics, drugs, Ppirf About the drug question, I'm sorry, I suppose this isn't really the right forum in which to air such a question. But I figured that there are definitely Crimson fans who have done and/or still do experiment with drugs, and thought that they might have opinions on the subject. I do not simply want to be lit off my derriere so that I end up seeing the walls move and so on -- seeing or listening to music, for me, really changes the entire experience. It's like the difference between listening to a song while driving and listening to it while lying down -- it changes the song entirely. First time I heard Sailor's Tale (my first Crimson song, actually) I was driving around LA, and a certain perception of the song ingrained itself into my mind. Next time I heard was in a dark, quiet room -- much more intensive mental experience. The point of drugs, for me, is to explore a now potential area of the music. Anyway, I'm to go sober to the show (no applause, please), as Crimson requires a great deal of mental and psychological stability, especially in concert. And sorry, Toby, if I did wrong in asking the question. Anyway-- as to Belew's lyrics, I really haven't ever been that into them. "Heartbeat" has always been a ridiculous song to me just because of the cheesy lyrics. "SSEDD" is another matter. But for the most part, IMHO, Belew relies on entirely metaphoric lyrics, much as Sinfield did back in the early incarnations. And I have recently begun to wonder why metaphoric lyrics hold such a heavy sway over contemporary popular music -- take Pearl Jam, Live, Hoochie, and of them, they all employ entirely metaphoric lyrics (and nasal vocalization, and long protracted "Yeahs"). Why is this so? Probably derives, I'd think, from the idea that songwriting is "poetry", a ridiculous concept, one that Sinfield used (although to better effect than most). And then there is generally some implication that the music is somehow metaphoric as well, that the melody expresses a direct concept or image. But is not music one of the least metaphoric of the media? Enter into the picture Zappa, Phish, and the blues: the first brought humor into lyrics (and music), crafted his own style, played with narrative; the second employs nonsensical word fragments that play with the listener's attempts to comprehend them; the last attempts to express an emotional state. Belew's lyrics, I would say, are most powerful when they do not attempt to be metaphoric: SSEDD, Indiscipline, Thela Hun Ginjeet, etc. Indiscipline has always struck me as being great in part because of its lyrics -- like Phish, they play with the listener's attempts to make sense of them, when they are simply phrases Belew picked up somewhere (I forget where). Meanwhile, back on the farm.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jon Jorstad (PRO) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 12:01:16 PST Subject: Trey strikes again David Charlap wrote: >Subject: Trey Gunn's road diary >Excepted from http://www.rockslide.com/crimson/trey/diary.html: >> >>When we were in ...... Dallas???...... during the bows at the end of >>the show some idiot threw his CD and it hit Robert right in the >>head. Though it obviously wasn't a malicious act, the stupidity was >>unbelievable. Not only will this loser's CD never be heard by any of >>us, HE'LL NEVER WORK IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS AGAIN. >I read this. It strikes me as very amusing. Does Robert (or Trey?) >think he is so big in the music industry that he can break another >artist with a nod of the head? I really don't think anyone in KC went >around calling record publishers telling them "don't every publish >anything by...". And even if they did, the response would almost >certainly be "Who cares what you think? You're not recording on my >label." I think Trey would be saying, "Gotcha!" (He was joking. At least that's how I read it.) Jon [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 16 Nov 1995 14:48:41 -0600 From: "John Ott" Subject: A Stick is a Stick A Stick is a Stick RE > "Warr Guitar" Saying Trey plays a Warr Guitar and Tony plays a Chapman Stick is like saying Robert plays a Les Paul (Tokai Les Paul copy on the road) and Adrian plays a Stratocaster. Trey and Tony both play stick and Robert and Adrian play guitar. Check the album credits they list the instruments not the brands. RE> "David Cross violin" Eddie Jobson plays an acrylic (clear) violin live and thus had no problem with either Phil Manzanera or John Wetton drowning him out. Check out Roxy Music "Viva" (live) or "UK live" (John Wetton plays on both). Acoustic instruments in loud bands do make headaches for sound engineers. (and the musicians playing them) I've seen "Bluegrass" bands at large outdoor festivals have an awfull time being loud enough to hear without feedback. see ya john [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Jeremy Lakatos Subject: Sinfield's Lyrics Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:32:58 -0500 (EST) On the other hand, if you want to talk about awful lyrics: "Said the straight man to the late man Where have you been I've been here and I've been there And I've been in between" "Cadence and Cascade Kept a man named Jade; Cool in the shade" "No use to complain If you're caught out in the rain; Your mother's quite insane. Cat food cat food cat food again." (Well I like this song, but I like Phish's lyrics too--wouldn't call them poetic.) "Your mean teetotum spins arouse your seventh wife Who pats her sixty little skins And reinsures your life" "No man yields who flies in my ship DANGER! Let the bridge computer speak STRANGER! LOAD YOUR PROGRAM. I AM YOURSELF." I think that's more than enough. Sounds to me like someone who wants to sound poetic and important, but who doesn't want to work for it. I could go further, using words like 'meaning' and 'cheese,' but that'd be inflammatory. So who's left? Palmer-James. What about him? -- If you can tolerate amateur poetry enough to do a SUCK/NOT SUCK poll, PLEASE check out http://grove.ufl.edu/~jeremy. (jeremy at grove dot ufl dot edu) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: thomas byran owens Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 17:00:49 -0500 Subject: Synthesizers & Vinyl Going on with the mellotron/synth good-bad debate.... I at one time despised synthesizers of any sort. I had played sax at one time and was convinced I'd never be able to do so professionally due to the horrid synthesized shit I heard on commercial radio. Thankfully most of that changed when I heard synthesizers used *creatively*, which moves on into my minor diatribe. :) I can see a great deal of merit in using a synthesized sound when that sound either is completely unavailable, whether by monetary or geographical inconveniences, or the available players that produce the sound aren't of the desired calibre (Zappa's plague). The other major reason for Synthesizer Merit is the production of sounds that /did not/ exist. Quite a few musicians today (especially in the techno-dance genre) use synths and sequencers to produce their music (which I find minimal and self- consuming to a fault) which is full of somewhat unique sounds...but they use them in a manner that says, "Huh huh. I made a cool noise there." The joyful opposite of the above are musicians like Fripp, Belew, Zappa, and Eno that created new sounds from their instruments and then went on to use them in a truly unique fashion. Fripps soundscapes are great, especially for the improvisational symphonic sound of it all. Now insofar as dragging out the mellotron for it's unique sound, the above still applies. On _Thrak_, the mellotron is being used compositionally. I personally find it perfectly fine. On the other hand, I really hate it when bands drag out an old mellotron for "that nostalgic sound" and really don't do anything with it. As for Thrak on vinyl...the main market I've noticed for vinyl these days are dance/hip=hop dj's and the whole indie rock scene. _The First Day_ has some really great grooves on it (especially "Darshan") which would make it appealing to dj's. Chances are it isn't viable to put _Thrak_ out on vinyl. However, wouldn't it be *really* neat to con a club DJ to suddenly mix in "THRAK" itself? I'd love to watch everyone squirm to the multi-meters in that beast. Anyhow...have fun. :) T. Owens [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 19:39:27 -0500 From: MarkDAshby at aol dot com Subject: Gig Review: Wilkes-Barre, PA 11/15 Having already seen KC once this summer in Philadelphia, I wondered what changes were in store for me from that show to this one. Wilkes-Barre isn't all that close to me (about a four hour drive), but since that was as close as they came to Washington, it was there or nothing. I took along some musical friends of mine whose affinity for KC far predates mine (well, gimme a break, they're about twice my age), and neither had seen KC since the '80's, so they were chomping at the bit to get there. Judging >from the other show reports I had been reading here, I told them they were in for some real ear candy. The Kirby Center in Wilkes-Barre is probably the most elegant venue I've ever been in for a rock concert. Plush carpet, chandeliers, roomy seats with nice cushions. Quite enjoyable. Our seats were right of center in the orchestra, so we had a fairly good vantage point for the show. Some of the reviewers so far have commented on the idiots they get sitting next to them or who are in the crowd in general. I have to say that from where I was sitting, there were very few of those in Wilkes-Barre. But there are always a couple spread around somewhere... Actually, the guy behind me who kept yelling "More sugar!" after every song from "People" until the end of the show got on my nerves a little. But at least that was all. Usually I'm not so lucky. I was proud of this crowd for their demeanor -- enthusiastic when necessary and quietly appreciative when appropriate. The CGT came on slightly early (!) by my watch, and the crowd received their material quite well. One of my companions on this trip had attended the Guitar Craft school years ago and said that he played with at least two of them before. "They were always way ahead of everyone else in there," he told me. "I'm not surprised to see them up there at all." He also commented that their set made him extremely proud of Guitar Craft's work. And admittedly, I enjoyed it more this time than the first time around. After about 15 minutes after their conclusion, the lights went down again. Two large drums had been set facing each other at center stage. Bruford and Mastellotto emerged and the spotlights shone on them as they pounded in unison to what felt like a tribal kind of beat to me. My other companion commented after the show that "it felt like they were signaling the beginning of a ritual." Indeed, that could have been the intent. As they drummed Belew stood in back of and between them in the ambient light. Once the two were done and as the cheers washed over them, Adrian twanged out those familiar opening chords to "Thela Hun Ginjeet." Fripp, Levin and Gunn emerged as the drummers took their places. From there, it was loads of fun. Set list (and I'm almost positive I remember this correctly): Drum intro Thela Hun Ginjeet Neurotica Red Three of a Perfect Pair Dinosaur One Time VROOOM VROOOM Frame by Frame B'Boom THRAK Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream People Tony and Trey on sticks Indiscipline Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part II First encore: Elephant Talk Walking on Air Second encore: Drum trio VROOOM Coda Highlight of the show was definitely the B'Boom/THRAK section. The improvising and counterplay here was absolutely astounding. The middle section of THRAK was much different than the album version, much quieter and primal. Fripp's soundscapes beforehand were also quite moving, as he used some cosmic sounds and even some vocal sounds. Someone else on ET also commented (I believe) on how when the band stopped during THRAK, they just picked back up in unison again without any noticeable cue. The same happened here. I didn't realize it until after it happened, but that amazed me. The drum trio was also quite fun. I don't know what it looked like other places, but here they brought those two big drums back out, added a row of cowbells and other noisemakers, and Belew, Bruford, and Mastellotto stood in a triangle around them (in that order left to right). Both Broof and Pat had a chance to do some soloing, and the shouts of "BRUFORD!" were quite pronounced (I think his fan club might have made up about a quarter of the crowd). Adrian did "Indiscipline" a little differently than what I'd been hearing in ET. In other reviews people said he would tease the audience and prompt them to fill in the next part of the sentence. This time, his voice gradually decreased to a whisper from "Playing little games, like not looking at it for a whole day and then looking at it to see if I still liked it." Almost immediately after his voice got to the point of barely being audible, he shrieked, "I DID!" and the band responded. That was kind of fun! Some general comments: Musically I found this show superior to the other show I saw this summer. However, the band didn't seem as "into" the performance. It took them all (even Belew) until "Dinosaur" to really start smiling and getting animated with their actions. Tony and Robert also seemed to be having a few minor equipment problems during the show (Tony stepped on his own cord a couple times). The mix was also fairly muddy until about halfway through the show. Robert was *way* too far in the background. In "Red" when he starts hitting that phased guitar sound all by himself, the volume change between that and the preceding part was far too much. But good news: I could hear Trey! I really tried to pay attention to what he was doing, and all of a sudden, it clicked. A lot of the parts were doubles of some kind, but I picked them out. I hadn't been able to do that before. He did quite a job on "People" especially. Adrian didn't talk to the crowd much, only thanking us for coming out in this "foul weather." But we did see quite a beaming smile from Robert when they took their bows before the encore. Belew put his arm around him and said something which must have struck His Frippness as amusing, so it was nice to see that kind of emotion come from such a normally stoic individual. On the whole, it was well worth the eight-hour round trip we made from Maryland up there. One of the guys I was with said facetiously, "Well, I guess we'll be getting together and doing this again around 2006." Good Lord, let's hope not. -MDA [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 19:50:17 -0500 From: Nel3 at aol dot com Subject: Bowie/guitarists/Bruce Cockburn RE: "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:31:33 -0500 Subject: First Inaugural Address at IACE..... As for Bowie's guitarists over the years, I would think Mick Ronson and Earl Slick better than mediocre (even great, in Rock circles), and Carlos Alomar actually quite a good rhythm guitarist. As for the best guitarists on the planet, some of them are: Allan Holdsworth, John McGluaghlin (is that how you spell it?), Julian Breame, and Fripp (it is probably too early to tell, but Stanley Jordan may end up on this list as well). Not in this category, but one of my favorites, is Bruce Cockburn (listen to "Water into Wine" on In the Falling Dark, or the whole album of Big Circumstance, particularly "Tibetan Side of Town"). -Emory" While I admit that Bowie's guitarist over the years have been of a consistently good quality, none of them would make my top 25 (save Stevie Ray). Now, I WOULD put Alan Holdsworth and John McLaughlin in that top 25 list along with Hendrix, Beck, Zappa, Duane Allman, Santana, Pat Metheny, John Scofield, Richard Thompson, David Torn, Neil Young, , Belew and Fripp, Ralph Towner, Kazumi Watanabe (on the strength of two albums with Jeff Berlin and Bruford), Mitch Easter, Bob Mould AND Bruce Cockburn Old but still good at times - Al Dimeola, Steve Howe, David Gilmour, Pete Townshend, Jimmy Page and Clapton. As for young turks, I'd point to Mark Whitfield and Wayne Krantz - both jazz players. You might note that technical facility doesn't necessarily drive the inclusion of all players on my list. But I think in general most of them have created an enduring body of work that defines rather than is defined by the groups that they have been with or the songs that they have played. Last point, especially for you, Emory - It is a joy to hear someone understand the strength of guitarist and songwriter Bruce Cockburn. You picked two excellent examples of guitar playing, one of which (Tibetan...) showcases his amazing wordsmithing ("Prayer flags crack like whips in the breeze..."). I would point to "Hoop Dancer" from the album The Trouble with Normal and "Dialogue with the Devil" from Sunwheel Dance and live on Circles in the Stream as two more examples of superb acoustic or electric playing along with the unparalleled song construction and lyrics. Not to digress completely (I realize ET is a specialized newsletter, but, folks, there IS life after Fripp) but I would put Cockburn's lyrics up against anyone in at least 20 of his songs - anyone. Since I'm all over the board anyway, anyone who saw my review of the 11/9 Orlando KC concert may think I need to get a life after Fripp, especially after I mention that I could not listen to ANY music for 2 days because it was all playing in my head.... :-) "Whole sight or all is lost" - John Fowles "Planet engines pulsate in sideral time; if you listen close you can hear the whine..." - Bruce Cockburn "I have come to wound the autumnal city" - Samuel Delany "You've got to kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight" - Bruce Cockburn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 17:36:06 -0700 From: brady at rainier dot darwin dot com (William Brady) Subject: live Red Dear Crimson fans, Yes, I also heard Red live in Seattle in the now defunct Music Box Theatre during the Discipline tour. As a matter of fact, KC opened with RED and knocked the socks off everyone. If he's listening, I'd like to say Hi to the guy I GAVE my extra ticket to ( a friend had bailed out on me ). This guy, ticket in hand, called me a fucking idiot, but I couldn't take money from someone who seemed so desperate to see KC. Twas truly a great show. On another topic, I had the honor of attending an invitation-only demonstration of Frippertronics in Seattle in 1979. There were only about 40-50 people there and it was a facinating experience. My point is that Fripp was very polite, witty, respectful and appreciative of the audiences enthusiasm and interest. He fielded questions for well over an hour after the demonstration and was very candid. This experience was completely opposite of the experiences described lately in ET in which Fripp is portrayed as an anti-social hermit. Has anyone else had pleasant interactions with RF? Last thing. Just bought B'BOOM. Awesome. I've been listening to KC since 1970 and attending their shows since 1973 and they never fail to inspire me. Thanks for the good times. Toby, thanks for adding me to the list. Bill brady at darwin dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: d dot zemel at genie dot com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 95 03:33:00 UTC 0000 Subject: Adrian Does Lennon I taped King Crimson on Conan O'Brien's show and made my wife watch it. (She had gone with me to see Adrian's Inner Revolution show but found it too loud!) No sooner did Adrian start singing than she exclaimed how much he sounded like John Lennon! And people wonder, if the "Beatles" would tour following the TV show and Anthology release, who could fill in for John.... (Then again, Adrian's just fine where he is right now too!) Dean [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 23:02:47 EDT From: boganp at alpha dot montclair dot edu Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239 Some thoughts at random: What, after all, DO you say to a musician, even if that person's music has changed your life, that they haven't heard a dozen times before? Probably one moment that'll stand out in my mind forever, actually, was the first time I met Adrian. It was at the end of September, 1989, during the Mr. Music Head tour at a dinner theater in Jersey called Club Bene. For reasons known only to management, the tables and chairs had been removed from in front of the stage, so as soon as the lights went down a bunch of us rushed to get seats close to the stage. I made eye contact with him a few times during the concert, and he was even posing for my mother (who snapped a whole roll of photos with a zoom lens that's visible at some distance) at a few points during the show. So anyway. We wait around, and Adrian comes out after a while. I was hanging toward the back of the line, wondering what I'd say to him when I got to him. He spots me, smiles a huge smile, and says "I noticed you knew all the words to everything." I don't remember any of the rest of the twenty-odd minute conversation we had, and I know damn well he wouldn't remember talking to some seventeen-year-old kid, but I do know that his attitude and accessibility gave me a lot of respect for him. As for the thread on lyricists: Each of us has our favorites, but consider this: Fripp has always maintained that when music comes along that only Crimson can play, Crimson appears to play it (I'm paraphrasing); similarly, the lyricists involved have been those best suited to their times and the music/character of KC at that time. Peter Sinfield's quasi-mythical epics would sound out-of-place over the disjointed music of the 80's/90's lineup, Adrian's postmodern lyrical noodlings wouldn't fit the fluid geometry of "Book of Saturdays", and Palmer-James' stuff would've been far too earthy for, say, "Moonchild". My two cents' worth: My favorite lyricist is AB, but my favorite lyrics are from "The Night Watch"... Where is "Guitar as Orchestra"? I've yet to see it in stores... Thank you for listening. Paul [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 23:06:41 -0500 From: John Upwood Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239 To Mr. Randall Powell: Just kidding. I'll spare everyone the agony of another post on the subject. I'm just saying hello. I'm going to see KC in a few days, and I thank everyone for the show tips. Some great reviews out there--I'm psyched for the show. And I'm now well-versed in KC fan etiquitte--I won't try to shake anyone's hand lest I send them into hysterics. Come to think about it, by the end of the show if anyone tries to shake my hand I'll probably be thrown into hysterics myself. John Upwood _______________________________________________________________ The opinions expressed in this message are exclusively those of my employer and bear no relation, direct or indirect, to my own personal sentiments. If you have a problem with anything I've written, please contact my employer at: _______________________________________________________________ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 23:36:47 EST From: CTYM80A at prodigy dot com ( BRIAN K PRESTON) Subject: Crimson with the Upside Down Man Hello all fellow Crim heads. I thought it quite cool to see the guys on TV! Sort of took me a few minutes to adjust after seeing them in Frisco for 3 nights last summer. And Robert was so EXPOSED! In the harsh lights under full view (I'm sure he loved that!) Now the arrangement of Dinosaur was snappy, wasnt it? If I remember, they took out the gtr synth middle section and went right into Fripp's solo (which was a bit milder than I had seen) and then seemed to clip it a bit at the end, wouldnt you say? Conan seemed to be pretty into it and there were certainly some Crim heads in the audience. And, did you notice Fripp when Conan went to shake their hands... Robert sort of cringed abit. And what was that, a sweater from StarTrek.Next Generation Fripp was wearing? I sort of liked the white shirt and vest myself. Has most everyone seen the Crimson reviews and articles in Progression magazine? Just came out last week. Pretty good. Ian McDonald writes a piece and they review all the guys new stuff, including Tony's World Diary. Plus a band retrospective. (They even put my band's ad on the same page with the Crimson reviews! Freehand) Still mourning the fact that the guys cruised straight through North Carolina (after Atlanta) and didnt stop ..and I had built it up to the local Crimheads! Maybe we'll eventually get them to stop around here. Until next time...B K P P.S. If anyone doesnt get Progression and wants contact info, e me and I'll send it. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 00:34:31 -0500 (EST) From: JPM17 at JAGUAR dot UOFS dot EDU Subject: KC management, Belew solo, House of Blues on TV? I live near Wilkes-Barre, PA whre KC played Wednesday. I had read that most of the band was decent as far as talking to fans and such. So, I tried to get a quick 15-20min interview for our college radio station. First I tried going through our local promoter, but they never got back to me with any info. Next, I called Catalyst out in California. I spoke to a woman named Veronica. I faxed them my request with all my specifics. I even left messages on answering machines. Everytime I spoke to this woman, I got the old, "I'll call you Wednesday" "I'll call you Friday" "I'll call you Monday", blah, blah, blah. I was legitimate with our radio station. I once interviewed a Nobel Peace Prize winner. If they didn't want to grant me an interview, I would have understood. I know this is an exhausting leg of the tour for them. Yet, they never called me back. I was really disappointed with them on this. A simple NO the first time would have done the job, instead they gave me the runaround, ignoring me to the end. Has anyone esle dealt with them? Did I just get a bum deal, or are they notorious for doing this? I hate to pass judgement on them if I'm just an exception. Should I have gone through the record company instead? Before the Wilkes-Barre, PA show, they were playing Belew's latest solo album, Guitar as Orchestra over the pa system. I really enjoyed it and was wondering, Is this out yet? Does anyone have it or the cat. number? If anyone has it, a brief assessment would be interesting. Does anyone know if/when the House of Blues show will be broacast on TV? I've never figured out when this program airs as I have only caught it once or twice flipping channels. Those who were at the show reported alot of camera work being done, so this wouyld lead me to believe it will air at some date. Thanks in advance, Joe Mel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin) Subject: BB interview Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 10:07:56 +0100 (MET) this is the translation of an interview of B.Brufford published in a french magazine for drummers in April or May 95. I re read it yesterday, and finally thought you could use it. If anyone already did this translation, stop me, tellme and don't hesitate to edit the thing. Of course, for reason of length, and despite you know me for my endless messages, IUm going to do it in several times. Bill Brufford Interview part 1 Q: How would you define this new K.C. ? B.B: It happens to be the most intelligent rock'n roll of the moment. The musicians involved not only know rock, but jazz and "avant garde".Those musicians have so many sesions, so many albums behind, that everything is easy. And the public is not obliged to like us. If he likes, that's great, but if not, it's great anyway. It's not a fascist organisation. K.C. is an ominous group of guitars, and there is no equivalent today. It's very heavy too. Bands of the like of Cinderella or Van Halen think they are heavy, but when it comes to heavyness or density, you have to see a K.C. show. It's wild too, that because the musicians know dissonance and that playing calmly can sometime be a thousand time more threatening than an average teen ager band pushing their amps to 11. Intensity and power are really things the band masters. Looking for unexpected if I may say so is one of our speciality. Something may be coming or not, whatever, you'll stay stuck to your chair. Q: After those 11 years of silence that followed the trilogy Discipline, Beat and ToaPP, how did you come to the realisation of the record? B.B.: Each time we meet again, it's whole new band In 80-84 formula, we were a lot into new technologies, like electronic drumming, synth guitars and ChapmannStick. Ethinc music was fashionable, third world and african voice polyphony, just started to be discovered, Crimson was a lot into that. This time it's not about getting back to those times, but 20 years before to the harder K.C. It has become bigger, wider, fater, and because we are six, it's realy dense and thick. Q: With Fripp as a leader and five strong characters, how do you care for each one's ideas, and make an coherent album? B.B.: Robert is a chief of orchestra, but not always the chief composer. He write some things from beginning to end on the guitar, the music then flows during reharsals. The art of using 6 musicians in a little room consist in knowing what to do and when, and to what you have to hang. Not too much talking, but playing. Too much talking leads to nothing. Robert kows prefectly how to draw the scheme he has in his head. He had decided to live the music of this 80/84 era. That was all right for me. As long as someone as clear vision, things can open up. Q: Hearing thrak, it seems that you are less using electronics than previously.And now you have Pat Mastelloto. B.B.: We both use electronics. I have a simmons SDX wich a computerised system the assign samples to pads. It's an extraordinary engine, since you interfere with the velocity of samples, and the triggering zone on the pad. Where you hitis as important as how you hit. What is funny is not knowing how it's going to respond. This album is very different from the previous K.C. Robert likes to have a goodrythm frame he can rely on. My relationship with rythm is more abstract. I consider one must know where lies the beat, and I play something in paralell, that can sometime get on your nerves I must admit. Pat is now the missing link between Robert and me. He is the metronome that makes Robert happy. So I can give more because we all know where the beat is. Q: considering that Pat is the guardian of the tempo, your play on thrak is morlike adding all this shifted rythms? B.B.: Most of the time, yes. On most of the cuts, You hear a big beat quite obvious, often in 2/4, it's Pat. I come in, disturbing the whole thing, or ply the same thing, earlier or later, that gives a rythm ambiguity. That create tihgtness and loosening. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: bullj1 at westatpo dot westat dot com Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 09:38:20 EDT Subject: KC on Conan Whoever alerted us to KC's appearance on Conan O'Brien, you're a god. Joan Bull bullj1 at westat dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 06:19:16 -0500 From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Perspectives Greetings fellow ETers! I'm on vacation in Athens, Greece, yet the wonders of cyberspace and a laptop have allowed me to stay in touch with ET, and I have a few comments to make about various posts in ET #239. But first I'd like to say that I think we should all take a moment to really appreciate the moment in time we are experiencing. When KC broke up in 1984 few people thought they'd be back again in 1995, yet as much as I don't wish to dwell on the idea, there will come a time in the future when KC will break up again, yet this time I just can see them coming together again after that happens. Indications are that's not going to happen quite yet, but we all know it will. Thing is at their age, I can't imagine the boys thrakking it up when they're sexagenarians. Its possible, but is it likely? The funny thing is that Fripp for one looks like he could play when he's 80 given his energy conserving style. Anyway the point is ET is in its prime today in large part because it came into being about the same time KC in the 90's started to become a reality, and today we are all sharing in the KC experience. What will happen when this band breaks up? Will ET still have that great feel? These are silly thoughts by a man who's had far too little sleep lately, but they make me appreciate what we've got all that much more, because its not going to last forever. Anyway, I do want to chime in on a few things that have been said. On the Fripp personality issue: it is a injustice to characterize someone based on hearsay, random encounters, or other stories. But what bothers me the most are the conclusions that Fripp is a bad person. Few of us know him well enough to know that, and his actions just don't deserve that conclusion. He's just different - but that's never stopped people who are different (good or bad) from being condemned in the past, so I guess things never change. On the “substances” thread: can this newsletter draw a line and raise above such discussions? I find it poor taste to discuss such things in this forum. To David Charlap: when Trey Gunn writes “HE'LL NEVER WORK IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS AGAIN.” can't you see the tongue in cheek sarcasm? No one is claiming to have the power to crush people's careers like they were no more than mere ants. Come on, these guys are confirmed anti music business establishment people. Trey's just making fun of the cliché. I have to wonder sometimes if some people are just looking for any excuse to knock these guys. I challenge them to come forth with some positive energy in their next posts. Finally, for those who use the indexes, please bare with me. ET digests are coming out at such a pace these days, that while I'm on vacation the indexes are falling significantly behind. It may take me until year's end to catch up. Sorry. Dan -- Daniel A. Kirkdorffer | "Though the course may change sometimes Email: e#kirkd at ccmail dot ceco dot com | rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant DanKirkd at aol dot com +------------------------------------------- WWW: http://users.aol.com/dankirkd/danhome.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] REVIEWS [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 00:18:48 -0500 (EST) From: JPM17 at JAGUAR dot UOFS dot EDU Subject: KC in Wilkes-Barre, PA Being that this is my hometown, there was no way I was going to miss this show. The Kirby Center was a quaint venue for such a show. Yet, I was a little disappointed with the sound we got. I'm no music expert, but there seemed to be alot of echo/reverb/feedback? which drowned out much of the percussion I thought. The Kirby Center seats only 1800, but one of the ushers told me they sold only about 900. Before the show, there was only one guy standing in front of the stage and he was off to the side not paying attention. This allowed us to go right up to the stage and look around. That is the closest I will ever come to such a big time band's setup. I think their setup has been posted before, but I must say that I was amazed at all the technology. Trey must have had a dozen pedals at his feet. I asked the guy selling t-shirts about the shirt with the family tree on it, and he said they stopped selling them a few shows ago. He didn't know why b/c he said they represented almost 40% of the t-shirt sales. I asked the guy who tuned their guitars how the tour was going. He said that the crew is exhausted. After our show was over about 11:00pm, they packed everything up and had to drive to Rochester, NY that night (at least 5 hours away). I also asked about the improvs they've been playing and he said they are basically the same every night except maybe for Bill's solos. At the start of the show, the band seemed tired to me. Adrian seemed to loosen up quickly and by the end, Tony and Bill were smiling also. Red was the highlight for me. I also loved THRAK! I hadn't seen anyone describe the little twist they put on it. It really slowed down to a quiet when the four string players started using different sounds. Tony played cello, Adrian seemed to be playing midi piano and then violin. Trey was doing guitar effects and also some other midi string work I think. Robert may have been doing some sort of soundscape. After about two minutes of this, Bill seemed to think it had gone on long enough and he started some percussion and gave Pat the eye. The two then began their own little jam on top of the group. Is this on B'BOOM album? After the show, the CGT did some great business. They were extremely friendly selling their album out front in the lobby. I'd say they sold at least 30-40 CD's. Unfortunately, the boys of KC disappeared after the show. A group of about 20 of us stood outside the back door for about 45 minutes in 30 degree winds until finally the cops who were keeping an eye on us went inside and we found out that the guys had slipped out an even more inconspicuous door into an unmarked van. This really disappointed me. All I asked for at this point was an autograph, no in-depth conversations or anything. Oh, well. If anyone has a setlist for the Wilkes-Barre show, could you please send it to me at JPM17 at jaguar dot uofs dot edu Thanks, Joe Mel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:27:11 -0400 From: Mitch dot Goldman at turner dot com Subject: king crimson reevuu... Toby...below is a review of the Atlanta shows that I wrote for ENTERZONE, a webzine I do reviews for...feel free to use it in Elephant talk if you'd like... Mitch ______________________________________________________________________ KING CRIMSON--ROXY THEATRE, ATLANTA, GA 11/11 & 12/95 Robert Fripp's newest version of his progressive rock outfit King Crimson is now over a year old; after producing three records (the ep VROOOM; the lp THRAK; and the 2 cd live set B'BOOM) and touring for the better part of 1995, this version of Crimson is really hitting some major peaks as a performing band. '95 Crimson is pretty much the '81-84 version (Fripp, Adrian Belew on guitar/vocals, Tony Levin on bass/stick, and Bill Bruford on drums/percusssion) plus two new members (Pat Mastellato, drums/percussion, and Trey Gunn, stick). Fripp views this configuration as a "double trio" but it's to KC's credit that this band functions more as a fully integrated six piece than the more standard jazz "double trio". Fripp and co. proved that there's plenty of life in this beast with their recent recorded output and live shows; THRAK is one of the year's best albums, filled with nasty-sounding guitar instrumentals and thoughtful, well-written vocal tracks from Belew. THRAK actually compares favorably to RED, the final John Wetton-era Crimson lp, released in 74, and considered to be a high-water mark in 70's prog-rock. The Town Hall show in New York back in June showed the new KC to be in fine form, tearing through mostly new material from THRAK, with some 80's and 70's-eras tunes thrown in for balance. But five months later, Crimson sounds even more reflex with their new configuration; their two shows at the Roxy in Atlanta found the six members smiling, laughing, interacting as musicians and performers in the manner of a band that's been touring for seven years, not seven months. The meshing of instruments is smoother and more seamless than it was during the summer tour; clearly, this six-piece is more comfortable with themselves, each other, and the material than they were on the first leg of the THRAK tour. And it showed, in two amazingly tight-yet-open-ended shows in Atlanta. The two Roxy shows were very similar in material; in fact, the Sunday show contained all of the songs of the Saturday show, with a couple extra thrown in. But since the song sequence changes each night, and since there are a couple of stunning improv segments, it's a show worth going back to see again and again. Opening with a brief drum duet from Bill and Pat, KC hit full throttle on the next piece, "Thela Hun Ginjeet" (from their '81 lp DISCIPLINE, the first KC album since RED in '74). "Thela", like much of the '80's Crimson material, has an African rhythm set to a post-punk guitar riff (KC's Belew material has much in common with middle period Talking Heads, due in no small part to Belew's participation on the Heads'seminal REMAIN IN LIGHT); this world-beat kind of approach has largely been abandoned on the THRAK material, so it's nice to hear these songs played live. Belew, at both shows, was his usual virtuoso-self, bending strings, slamming the neck of his Dayglo orange Strat with his fists, even taking a power drill to his strings during the improv section of "THRAK" on Sunday. Fripp, in stark contrast, sat on his usual stool at the back of the stage, between the drummers, rarely moving, but frequently letting loose with his patented, saturated Les Paul outbursts; his solo on "Three of A Perfect Pair" is a highlight, featuring the kind of sound only Robert Fripp can get from an electric guitar. Both Levin and Gunn added lower and higher register parts to the songs, each with their own style: Levin is percussive and muscular on the stick, while Gunn is graceful; Sunday night, from the sixth row, his hand movements looked like the studied movements of a ballet dancer. And Mastellato and Bruford are the epitome of a great drum duo...while one pounds out rhythm, the other adds color, and the sheer joy they get from transposing their respective roles from song to song is amazing to witness. Bruford in particular is probably, from a technical standpoint, the finest drummer I've ever seen live, working in a precise, dynamic manner without ever sounding stale or less than fully committed. It's worth the price of a ticket just to watch this percussive master at work. And both shows were *filled* with joyous highlights...the encores included a brief drum session with Pat, Bill and Adrian all participating, smiling like kids at each other's drum parts (the joy these men get from playing with each other epitomizes what's great about live music); the wild improv segment each night during "THRAK" which ended with a totally still, totally silent band (a positively breathless moment) before swinging back into the main "THRAK" riff; Fripp's improved "Soundscape" each night, during which Robert made spacy, synthesized sounds through his Les Paul (and his battery of pedals!); the stick improv piece that preceded a set-closing "Indiscipline"; Bruford's beautiful percussion color during the quiet, fragile "One Time"; Belew's ability to get animal noises from his Strat during "Elephant Talk"; and Sunday night's finale, "The Talking Drum" and "Lark's Tongue in Aspic Part 2". Not played on Saturday (despite being yelled as requests from the audience), "Lark's Tongue" is the perfect climax to a Crimson show...a dark, nasty instrumental that intersperses quiet, reflective passages next to the snarling guitar work of Fripp and Belew. Hearing this song reproduced so brilliantly made me feel like a kid again, discovering the wonder of Crimson in the mid-70's, wondering why I had never before heard music that sounded so, well, different. When six guys, whose ages range from late twenties to fifty, can make a 34 year old feel 14 again, you know the music has achieved its real purpose...like all great music, it takes you away from your current place and identity, and transports you, emotionally somewhere new. One of the things that strikes me as a nice feature of Crimson is their impermanence; you know that, like previous KC incarnations, this one will probably only last a few years, for a few records, for a handful of tours. But rather than depressing me, this idea adds to the appeal of Crimson. Unlike other bands who NEVER seem to go away, who decline in quality, Crimson shows up every so often to take us to a whole new place. They don't pick up where they left off; rather, they pick up as if THEY'VE NEVER LEFT. And they drag us, sometimes kicking and screaming (with delight!) to a new, unseen, unfelt musical place inside ourselves...and ultimately, they leave us there, saying "you're on your own...see you in seven or eight years!". And this is the true beauty of King Crimson: they take us on a voyage from which we're expected to return, or continue, on our own. Those of us who've been moved by this band will always carry the memory of this musical voyage; and when this version of Crimson ceases to be, as is inevitable, it's up to each of us to keep the music alive, in our heads, in our hearts, in our cd players, in our lives. The goal of Fripp and his cohorts is no less than to elevate our lives through fleeting moments of great music, through the sheer joy of playing and listening; and in their absence, we remember, like a dream glimpsed only vaguely in our memories, what this music and these experiences have meant to us. Like anything of true beauty and power, King Crimson can't be held; they can only be experienced and felt. But for those of us who've been moved by them, that's more than enough. Setlists... 11/1195 (8:53-10:44): Drum Duet Thela Hun Ginjeet Neurotica Red Three of a Perfect Pair Dinosaur VROOOM VROOOM Frame By Frame Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream One Time Soundscape-> B'Boom-> THRAK People Improv--Two Sticks-> Indiscipline Encores: Elephant Talk Walking On Air Drum Trio VROOOM-> Coda: Marine 475 11/12/95 (8:48-10:48): Drum Duet Thela Hun Ginjeet Three of a Perfect Pair VROOOM VROOOM Frame By Frame Dinosaur Red Neurotica People Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream VROOOM-> Coda: Marine 475 One Time Soundscape-> B'Boom-> THRAK Improv--Two Sticks-> Indiscipline Encores: Drum Trio Elephant Talk Walking On Air The Talking Drum-> Lark's Tongue in Aspic, Part Two ____________________________________________________________________ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] TIX [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:49:34 -0500 From: gjohnson at drystone dot attmail dot com (gjohnson) Subject: Tix for sale: Tix for Sale: Longacre, NYC on Monday November 20. 5 Tickets available - 15th Row center. call: John Urich (609) 844-0074 Lawrenceville,N.J. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 00:45:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Richard M. Rose" Subject: tix--Longacre--11/22--make an offer... I wrote a few weeks ago, and got no reply. So, I will try again. I have to sell these tickets because of a personal issue that came up the day after I purchased them. When I called Telecharge, they insisted that tickets were only available for Monday through Wednesday 11/20-11/22. I reluctantly bought 4 for Wed, 11/22. Row M. I have to be in Maine that day to testify in court in a Child Jeopardy case. There is no way I can attend. A few weeks ago, tickets for Friday and Saturday went on sale. I would be willing to work out a trade, sell these tickets at a discount, or listen to any offer. I hate to see the money I spent on these tickets go to waste, and 4 empty seats go unused. I am having trouble getting into Usenet, so I cannot post. This is my only way of advertising my plight, =FCand time is running out. My server is very flaky these days, so I will even give my telephone #'s. Please feel free to call, and I am sure we can work something out. (Could be a good deal for you!!) e-mail: rmrose at phantom dot com OR roserm at aol dot com Telephone: home: 718-599-5989 work: 212-599-5989x553 Feel free to leave messages! Thanks! Richard M. Rose. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]