Elephant Talk #240 (as text)

17 November 1995



Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:47:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "M. S. AtKisson" <matkisso at OPAL dot TUFTS dot EDU>
Subject: road defense
A number of people have given the standard "Fripp's an artist" defense to
excuse his rough way of getting strangers to leave him alone.  Let me offer
one more.

I spent something over 4 years working in the audio/lighting end of live
music, both on the road with the company I worked for, and as part of an
arena stage crew.  Both from my own regional experiences and from the
things I've heard and observed from the national tours, let me suggest that
touring is hard.

You have no real home base, the performance space is different every
night, and you are constantly surrounded by strange places and people.
Some people thrive on the stimulation, or at least tolerate it well.
Some people insulate themselves.  It's not just a Fripp thing.  I've seen
tour carpenters who don't want to interact with the house crew any
more than is strictly necessary.

It's a credit to the many performers who maintain grace and sociability
while on tour.

Peg.

Quote from the road:  "It's not the next day until you've slept.  Why, I
remember a Thursday with 2 or 3 sunrises."

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 12:17:25 EST
From: CRING at VNET dot IBM dot COM
Subject:  Re:  What hit Fripp?
>
>From: Paul Martz <martz at shaft dot fc dot hp dot com>
>Subject: What hit Fripp?
>> what did in fact hit Mr Fripp on Halloween night in Fort Worth, Texas?
>
>Obviously, it was a UFO.
>
  UFO:  Unidentified FRIPP Object .... (I couldn't resist....)
Mark
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:14:58 -0500
From: LOUSFC at aol dot com
Subject: King Crimson on Conan O'Brien show
Great performance as expected, but 2 nagging (minor) complaints:

* Could "Dinosaur" have been any more abbreviated????
* Could Robert Fripp appear any more disinterested in what he's doing??

Great to have even this little tidbit on tape to savor & replay endlessly
until next Tuesday at the Longacre!! 7th row, left side....I am salivating
with anticipation. (Lovely image, that)....

Later,

Lou Fazio

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 12:54:41 -0500
From: MFISHER at VARIETY dot CAHNERS dot COM
Subject:  KC on Conan
I stayed up late last night and caught (and taped!) Da Boyzz on Conan
O'Brian last night.  Interesting...they did this abridged version of
"Dinosaur" (sans the mellifluous middle section)...and while RF isn't
exactly known for being Mr. Cheery onstage, it certainly seemed to me that
Robert was decidedly *un*happy about playing this particular TV venue. He
was bundled up for arctic conditions and just looked like he was cold.

Adrian and Tony were doing their level best at appearing to be having a
good time, but after the wild fun I saw them have at the House of Blues
gig in LA, this was clearly work to them. (I mean, it *is* kinda silly; drag all
that gear in, set it all up, play one song in the last 5 minutes of the show,
tear it all back down...)

From: "ToddM"  <ToddM at laserm dot lmt dot com>
Organization: LaserMaster Corporation
Date:     15 Nov 1995 12:22:48CST6CDT
Subject:  KC on Late Night with Conan O'Brien
Saw the show and watched them play.  Tried to videotape it but it got munged
and all I got was noise.  Just as well, I guess.  A very good performance of the
abbreviated version of "Dinosaur".

Belew looked happy, so did Bruford.  I still love it that Bruford's kit
matches his bright yellow sportcoat.

Trey and Pat looked off to the side a bit, but animated.  Pat's drum kit was
PURPLE and he was standing over it playing various sundry percussion and
drums while Bruford remained seated.

Trey moved back and forth and was nearly as animated as Belew.  It appears
that he was using a WarrGuitar instead of stick and was dancing on a massive
bank of effects pedals.

Tony was in view doing his backup vocal and bass thing he does so well.
The guy is so poised it's ridiculous.

Belew played Stratocaster, of course and let of some choice squeals at the
coda before coming in with the synthesized strings.  His vocal was so "on"
it sounds like the flew the vocals off the master tape and pumped it through
the PA, but there he was singing it.

Fripp looked very relaxed and while playing his short "Dinosaur" solo appeared
almost as if he was considering laundry to do back at the hotel, but it was obvious
he was concentrating on the matters at hand - his tone was amazing.  It looked like
he was playing an old Les Paul goldtop.  It appears he had a Roland GR-1 synth on
top of his effects rack (or refrigerator, shall I say?)

All in all, I hope it bodes more success for the band.

From: "ToddM"  <ToddM at laserm dot lmt dot com>
Organization: LaserMaster Corporation
Date:     15 Nov 1995 12:28:12CST6CDT
Subject:  Another Comment: Tossing Stuff On-stage
Years ago I attended a Zappa concert in 1981 at the Northrup Auditorium just
off the University of Minnesota where some inebriated individual tossed a large
industrial-strength toilet plunger onstage.  The plunger bounced about and came
dangerously near to a rack of guitars on stands adjacent to where Steve Vai was
positioned on stage.

The band, being in the middle of a song at this point, specifically "Cocaine
Decisions" came to a dead halt.

Frank, being the kind of person he was, stated "whoever tossed their plunger
on-stage must COME TO THE FRONT OF THE STAGE AND CLAIM IT, ELSE THERE
WILL BE A TOTAL,  PERMANENT CESSATION OF MUSIC."  He meant it and I didn't
blame him.

The idiot(s) came up, claimed their plunger and security promptly escorted the
idiot(s) out.  The audience then thunderously acclaimed Frank's decision.

At that point, the band, without missing a beat went back into the point at which
the music was interrupted and finished the tune.

Sure beats tossing a CD on stage, but it can be dangerous, too.  Think if a plunger
had hit someone on the head or trashed equipment.  Ouch.

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:31:51 -0600
From: gdstrip at edge dot net (George and Dianne Stripling)
Subject: Happy ET
Mr. John Quinn wrote:
>Sir, you are visiting Rome; please do as the Romans.

        The Romans simply ripped off the culture of the people they
slaughtered. I do not intend to behave this way.

>It may take several strolls around the town (or several issues of this
>digest) >to become acquainted with its customs and mores.

        As of Issue 238, I have received, read, and archived 21 issues of
ET. I did not subscribe to ET so I could tiptoe around the likes of your
tulips. I am a fan of Robert Fripp and King Crimson, although sometimes I
ask myself why considering all of the close minded people that share my
appreciation. I can certainly understand how Mr. Fripp and company have
grown tired of communicating with there fan(atic)s.

>I believe you will better enjoy ET when you've had a chance to discover
>what it >is, and will more fully understand the assorted posts once you've
>developed a
>better sense of their contexts

        When did I ever say anything about not enjoying ET? Just what is
ET? How about some help with "placing these posts in context"??!! Why does
everyone seem to think that a vague, general response is appropriate? Is
this how you greet a new subscriber, with contempt and snobbery for my
supposed ignorance!?

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
          George Stripling Jr.

          gdstrip at edge dot net

          http://edge.edge.net/~gdstrip/
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:25:46 -0800
From: richie at nova dot net dot com (Richard Schiavi)
Subject: fripper-kindness
Continuing On the previous "Re: Fripp-Off" thread:

Hmm, just because Fripp is an artist doesn't make him any more or less
of a human being.  He walks upright and breaths Oxy like the rest of us.

And because his music is crafty and unique, doesn't
mean his stardom like actions and personality any better than say
someone like Billy Ray Cyrus or more geniune than someone like Mike Watt.
 But with Fripp, because he speaks in big words and is supposed
to be this intelligent introspective guy, that can take away from his
social and human qualities and make it ok, cuz he is ever so deep?

If Fripp wants to act loften and in a distance above and apart from his fans,
then that is his business, but one's profession, career or
financial stature should never cause distance in the human spirit and
kindness in general.  .  . I've never met him so can't really say, but he looks
geniune to me, but appears he is very anal retentive about things social
and the whole stardomismismsismsism.  It wouldn't break my heart if he didn't
shake my hand or look me in the eye. It wouldn't really phase me. I'd
probably try to think about it for a while to try to understand "him", but
not direct any particular emotion but pure quandry into why a man would
behave in such a way.  Or what makes him play and live the life he has
chosen?  To stop and think about it is better then to be angry about it.

I don't have people trying to shake my hand all day or trying to take
my picture, so can't say what I'd do or how I'd react.  I do know a smile
or hello from a stranger when walking down the cold and lonely streets of
life can really make ones day!

Robert's attitude seems to be heavily focused on Zen and stuff like
that.  Does anyone know if he trains in Martial Arts. He look like
a Tai Chi guy to me. . .

In retrospect,  how friggin' hard is it to take a deep breath, look someone
in the eye, hold out your hand, and scream, "HOW YA DOIN!!!!!"

-Rich

>Well, Randy get ready for the deluge of replies from those who will defend
>Fripp to the death.  By the time this is over they will try to make you
>feel like YOU should apologize to Fripp for "bothering" HIM.  Some will
>excuse his behavior by saying, "he's an artist," or point to the fact that
>you "the Obnoxious American" violated Fripp's "British Sensibilities."
>Many will fault you for having "the nerve" to actually want to communicate
>with someone who has touched your life through their art.  I doubt many
>will come to your defense.

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 13:34:02 -0600
From: medtek at ghgcorp dot com (Sandra J. Prow)
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #238
>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:22:18 -0500 (EST)
>From: Gideon B Banner <gideon dot banner at yale dot edu>
>I've got an important question.  This might not be the right, forum, but
>hey, here goes: Are there any opinions out there as to what sort of
>substances one might want to ingest before attending a Crimson show?  I've
>been wondering if I should or not, and other people's opinions might help.

You should eat a good dinner and drink plenty of liquids, Gideon.  IMO, this
music is best taken in unimpaired.  The intensity alone is enough to harm you.

~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|
                         http://www.ghgcorp.com/medtek
Sandra J. Prow                   |    I don't represent anyone,
medtek at ghgcorp dot com               |        Not that anyone
medtek at bix dot com                   |      Would want me to....

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 13:28:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Le Monsieur Damon <dcapehar at utdallas dot edu>
Subject: re: what hit Fripp...
I said:
> I *still* think it was a plastic cup.

I stand corrected. :)

Damon Capehart		| UTD Student Govt. Assoc., Communications Committee;
dcapehar at utdallas dot edu	| Society of Physics Students

From: fred at d2 dot com (Fred Raimondi)
Subject: What to ingest before a KC show.
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 11:38:54 -0800 (PST)
Gideon Wrote:

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:22:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Gideon B Banner <gideon dot banner at yale dot edu>
Subject: WHAT HIT FRIPP IN THE HEAD

I've got an important question.  This might not be the right, forum, but
hey, here goes: Are there any opinions out there as to what sort of
substances one might want to ingest before attending a Crimson show?  I've
been wondering if I should or not, and other people's opinions might help.
Thanks.

I replied:

I've always found a cheeseburger, with a side of fries to be the perfect
thing for US shows. Fish and Chips for UK shows.

But that's just me.

Fred Raimondi

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 12:08:16 PST
From: "Allen Huotari" <allenh at smtpgate dot tais dot com>
Subject: RF's attitude towards fans
     in the liner notes to "The Compleat National Health", keyboardist Dave
     Stewart relates an incident in which a fan stops him to ask (in all
     sincerity) if it's true that drummer Pip Pyle is made completely of
     metal.

     so what's this to do with KC or Robert Fripp's attitude towards fans?

     just this...for every tale of a bizarre encounter that someone of
     marginal notoriety (such as Dave Stewart) has, I'm sure that RF could
     relate ten times as many similar anecdotes as a consequence of public
     encounters during his quarter century plus as a professional musician

     no small wonder that RF has a definite aversion to contact with the
     public

     after all, KC fans come in all shapes, forms, colours, sizes, etc.,
     but unfortunately the ratio of rude, boorish, obnoxious fans to
     erudite, pleasant, and charming fans (the typical ET subscriber ?) is
     probably a ratio of 3:1 to 9:1 (if the behavior of those in attendance
     at Crimson gigs is any indication)

     doubly unfortunate is that RF has no way of knowing beforehand whether
     the person approaching him for conversation is a drooling, gibbering
     maniac or someone who sincerely wishes to express appreciation for his
     artistry

     before I go on, let me state that I do not wish to be an apologist for
     RF, certainly his attitude towards fans could be a little more
     friendlier and clearly lies in stark contrast to the geniality of the
     remaining band members

     but the standoffish RF, shunning contact, reluctant for involvement
     has not always been the case

     for example, during the first Frippertronics tour, RF would very
     calmly and patiently answer questions and sign autographs for one to
     two hours after the gig. A direct attempt at demystifying the rock
     star image and establishing close contact.

     this despite the fact that the q&a session often provoked some
     incredibly stupid questions

     and also despite the fact that people during the performance would
     scream out "Schizoid Man" or could clearly be seen recording and
     photographing the performance in direct opposition to RF's pre-gig
     requests that these not occur (whether you agree with his position or
     not is immaterial for the moment. Suffice it to say that these folks
     probably did manage to irk RF just a tad).

     but perhaps this was because in q&a situations RF is in control and
     the meeting is not spontaneous. Comments anyone?

     moving on in history, I directly witnessed a pair of offenses at the
     RFSQ gig at the Strand in Redondo Beach CA a couple of years ago.

     Three friends of mine (their actual names are withheld to insulate the
     guilty...no, make that the stupid), and I arrived very early to obtain
     some prime seating and just to relax and chat. After about 30 minutes,
     and with less than a dozen people in the venue, RF came in and sat
     down at the table next to us with a cup of coffee and a book. I don't
     mind admitting that this was pretty exciting but the three of us who
     could see him kept cool about it. Clearly, not a good moment to
     approach him. But the fourth member of our party (let's call him
     Steve), had his back to RF's table and could not see him seated very
     closely behind. We managed to discreetly inform him of RF's presence
     to which he immediately jumped up, abruptly whirled around, in the act
     nearly upending our own table, thrust his hand into RF's face and
     blurted "HIROBERTMYNAMEISSTEVEGLADTOMEETYOU!"
        This completely startled RF (as it would most people) and with a
     look of wide-eyed terror (?) he quickly waved his hands back and forth
     and rapidly shook his head no. RF grabbed his coffee, his book, and
     made tracks for the dressing room.
        Of course we gave Steve unmerciful hades for scaring RF away.
        But it doesn't end there! About 1/2 hour later, another friend
     (let's call him Mike) is telling Steve a long involved story about RF
     that he heard from someone else. I lost interest and chatted quietly
     off to the side with the fourth party member. Suddenly I see my friend
     glance wide eyed over my shoulder. I turn to find that RF had returned
     and was standing directly behind Mike and it appeared as if he was
     waiting for a pause in the conversation in order to say something.
     Unfortunately, at that moment Mike's story concluded with the
     punchline "of course, this proves that Fripp is a completely arrogant
     and egotistical asshole" (sorry, but I'm quoting). There is no way RF
     could not have heard this little jewel of a pronouncement. I glance at
     RF and he gets a sorrowful, disappointed look on his face (not exactly
     a hurt look though, more like he had hoped for and expected a
     civilized conclusion to the story), sadly shakes his head, and walks
     away.
        So there you have it, my near encounter with RF. We gave Mike and
     Steve increased hades for intimidating RF twice in one evening.
        Had RF returned to apologize for his reaction earlier? As apology
     and compensation would RF have invited us for a cup of coffee or an
     opportunity to meet Trey G. and the CGT backstage?
        I guess that's something I'll never know. Thanks guys...

     well, to conclude I hope that you understand that RF probably has
     sufficient reason to distrust his "loyal following"

     is RF rude? maybe
     is RF arrogant? possibly
     is RF eccentric and idiosyncratic? definitely
     is RF justified in his aversion to public contact? from my personal
     observations and imho, yes

     and here's a final hint: consider your personal appearance. If you're
     wearing a grubby, worn tee shirt and reek of the six pack and garlic
     anchovy pizza you wolfed down before the show, RF probably won't want
     to speak to you and neither will anyone else

     (btw, Dave Stewart assured the fan that it was true, indeed, Pip Pyle
     was made completely of metal)

     apologies for the lengthy post and apologies for focusing on
     personalities rather than on the music

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:06:16 -0600
From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen)
Subject: KC on Conan / a substance for Gideon
Hi

Well, I watched it....Feh!

I have never seen another person on TV look so miserable as our Bobby. He
appeared to be having a terrible time. The other five seemed to be handling
it OK, but not our Artist-in-Residence.

I can only assume that they made him sit in the lights. Probably the only
time an audiece has seen him plainly in years. I get it! He's really a
vampire!!!

And what was with the parka? It made him look exceptionally porky.

To Gideon B Banner (giedeon dot banner at yale dot edu):

I dunno, hemlock?

Cheers (I'm having a bad day),

CV

From: David Kirkdorffer <David_Kirkdorffer at praxisint dot com>
Date: 15 Nov 95 16:43:42 EDT
Subject: King Crimson: Conan O'Brian TV Show -- November 14, 1995
Did anyone see King Crimson play Dinosaur on the Conan O'Brian show the other
day?

Fripp certainly seemed relaxed, focused and in his own world -- staring
somewhat blankly with a rather impenetrable (maybe this evening, bemused?) gaze
into middle distance all the while executing his Dinosaur licks.   And, lo!
Plenty of light and close-ups on Fripp's face revealed more age (and possibly
fatigue) than many of us will see, even with front row seats.  Did, anyone else
get a John Lee Hooker vibe from this rock-elder(ly) as he sat on his chair?

Surprisingly, the camera team were very adept and prepared to focus on a stoic
Fripp and a bouncy Belew each time they contributed key melodic licks and
solos.   Unfortunately, this close attention to Fripp & Belew (and to a lesser
extent Bruford & Levin) left very little camera time showing Mastelotto or Gunn.

After the song, Conan did a customary thank you to the band and reached a hand
out to Adrian, which Adrian accepted heartily.  Then Conan reached back to
shake Fripp's hand.   Fripp, seemed a little surprised/unprepared, but quickly
reaches forward a way bridging some distance and shakes Conan's hand.

Good for you Conan!

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 14:51:38 GMT
From: neputnya at fishnet dot net (G Garner)
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #234
Hi there pals!  Saw the Big Red Fella on Conan O'Brian last night.  It was
pretty rough trying to stay awake & interested, especially during that last
obnoxious guest my wife and I thought would never stop talking!  We kept
saying "Please don't bump them, please don't bump them!", but finally, at
about 1:23 AM the lads appeared.  Performing "Dinosaur" (as I predicted)
they seemed a little hesitant at first, but soon all fears were allayed as
confidence and energy level increased.  An abbreviated ending caused me some
dissapointment, but hey, this is network TV.

Can someone please tell me what in the wake of Poseidon was Fripp  wearing?
Kinda looked like a caftan from a Linda Richards garage sale, or maybe
something judged to progressive a costume for Deep Space Nine.  At any rate,
it sure looked comfy.  By the way, I made a Hi-8 recording of the event, if
anyone missed it or would like a copy, email neputnya at fishnet dot net.  I also
taped the Conan & Andy stare-down contest, if anyone's interested.

I remain yours,

Inhaled Some Pails of Rice -

G. Garner

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:05:36 -0500
From: Ajbas at aol dot com
Subject: Greetings + KC LIVE, etc.
Hey there fellow Crimsonites,
    This is my first post, so I'll start by giving Toby the obligatory
"thanks" for doing such a great job with E-Talk.  I have learned a great deal
about my favorite band in the last few weeks from reading the various posts.
    As I write this, I am trying to stay awake after faithfully staying up
until 1:30 a.m. to catch the Connan O'Brien show last night.  Dino-short!!!
 I missed the break in the song, damn TV format!  Was very strange to see
them on the box, though.  Despite the shoddy camera work, I was able to see
Mr. Fripp in direct light (there goes that vampire theory).  Thanks to my
nifty on-the-spot-editing, my VCR cassette now has the Max Weinberg (sp?)
Seven playing the Dick Van Dyke Show theme song followed directly by
Dinosaur.  Very strange combination, I must say.
    Ultra-brief history:  My name is Andrew, I am a bass player in a band
called The Visitors from the San Francisco Bay Area.  After falling in love
with Close to the Edge, I had to know where BB went, and why he went there.
 I found a used LTiA lp, saw 1973 and BB on it, and I bought it.  Now I knew
WHERE he went.  I could not understand WHY he did for quite a few years,
though.  Now, I understand.
    My oh my, what a variety of opinions we all have, huh? Great to have so
many ideas floating around. It gets my mind thinking.  The only posts that I
have found really disturbing were the Fripp-Flame-o-Rama titled "Fripp-off"
in #236 (courtesy Randall Powell) and the "I'll be at home with my headphones
on." in #237 (David Beardsley).  I think Randall has been sent some very
articulate responses already, so I'll leave that alone.
    But hey, David, you'll never get the same experience of seeing KC live by
sitting at home with a walkman!  Crimso is a LIVE band, even the live
recordings don't do them justice, you really have to see this band to
appreciate what they are doing.  What makes the live experience different?
 The interaction between NOT only the band members, but between the band AND
the audience.  For better or for worse.  You give me the impression you would
like to see everyone in the crowd sitting silent and motionless, so as not to
disturb anyone.  Well, what I'm saying is that these disturbances can ADD to
the whole experience.  I remember from the show in Berkeley people yelling,
"I wish you were here to see it," trying to guess when Adrian would come in.
 Rather than be annoyed with it, Adrian used it to build the excitement to a
peak.
    I guess if you don't want any distractions as you listen to music, studio
albums are great, but they will always give you the SAME experience.  Now
nobody likes the drunk jerk yelling, "Freebird," especially Mr. Fripp, but if
Fripp were to choose your solution, there would be no live Crimso.  He, too,
would be at home with headphones on.  Don't let losers from the past keep you
>from living today!!!   ; )

Thanks again, Toby! (sorry this is so long!)
Andrew (ajbas at aol dot com)

P.S.> I can't find the post, but someone was talking about KC x-drummer Ian
Wallace - he was in The Warriors in the mid-sixties (w/Jon Andreson of Yes),
he was also the drummer for David Lindley and El-Rayo-X, and he appears on
all three studio albums (all very good).

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 19:23:58 -0600
From: medtek at ghgcorp dot com (Sandra J. Prow)
>Subject: KC on Conan
>
>        Did anyone tape KC on Conan O'Brien?
>
>        I tuned in and watched the whole show, but the station
>that I get NBC on, cut in right at the end segment, right before
>KC went on. They were showing the docking of the U.S. and the
>Russians (or whatever they are now) space stations.
>Who cares? Anyway, they came back to the program at the last chorus.
>I missed practicaly the whole thing. Could someone please make me
>a copy? I would do anything. Please, please, please.

1.  Our NBC station in Houston, the 4th largest city in the US, doesn't
carry Conan.  We stayed up late only to be rewarded with Jenny Jones in a
Rabbit suit. (not a BUNNY suit, a Rabbit suit.  Halloween show.)  We taped
all early morning programming hoping to catch Conan, with no luck.

2.  Who cares about Mir docking?  I do.  The people on board are my friends
and coworkers.  When the Americans return to earth, I'll be among the first
to see them.  Besides, I have equipment that's being transferred from the
Shuttle to the Mir that I worked very hard on developing.  It's the last
flight of this particular incarnation of the equipment and I'm sad to see it go.

3.  I would also like a copy of the tape.  Email me as well?  Pretty please?

~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|~|
                         http://www.ghgcorp.com/medtek
Sandra J. Prow                   |    I don't represent anyone,
medtek at ghgcorp dot com               |        Not that anyone
medtek at bix dot com                   |      Would want me to....

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:19:37 -0800
From: SezZ at eworld dot com
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #238
>Is it possible that you've been a fan for quote 20 years unquote and you
>haven't heard Fripp's opinion of the potentially vampiric relationship
>between audience and performer?  The mid-70 band was disbanded for this
>reason.  He never signs autographs at a show or talks to anyone in the
>traditional sense.  He communicates with his music on stage.

I met Fripp after a Crimson show in '73.  It was the Bruford, Wetton,
Cross, Frip version of the King and they had just finished peeling the
paint off the walls of the Long Beach Sports Arena.  I was in High School
at the time and had been a Crimso fan since the first album.  Great show.
Insanely great.

My friends and I waited by the limo's outside the sports arean after the
show, and we got to talk with Fripp and Bruford.  Wetton just blew past
us (bloody rude) and I don't think any of us recognized Cross.  Anyway,
Fripp was very talkative then.  He had a beautiful woman on his arm and I
seem to remember lots of "fur" for some reason.  We asked him how he gets
his ideas for songs (duh...hey, we were in high school)  and he gave us
quite a speech citing his influences and how he "talks to the wind", etc.
 No, really, he actually said that.  Finally Bruford practiacally dragged
him to the limo as it was beginning to look like he was going to hold
court all night right there in the parking lot.  The whole scene was
quite surreal, very over our heads, and its been the source of many a
"brush with greatness" story for me ever since.

Well, fast forward to the Wiltern theatre this past summer. Over 20 years
later, and my wife, some friends and I are waiting outside by the van
that is apparantly going to take the band back to the hotel.  We had
actually met Belew, Leven, and Bruford earlier in the day at the
restaraunt next door.  They had "meal tickets" from the Wiltern.  Anyway,
there was a crowd of about 15 people waiting for the band to come out.
The first one was Belew who was carrying his laundry and was very
personable and seemed to genuinely enjoy chatting with everyone.  He
signed a number of autographs, and my Thrak program and Young Persons
Guide book.  Then Bruford comes out as Belew moves to the van, he is very
chatty, looks virtually the same as when I met him in '73 (very tall) and
actually apologizes for making us wait so long.  He signs a lot of
autographs too.  Everyone is having a ball, everyone is very happy and
the mood is generally upbeat.  He moves along to the van just as Fripp
comes out.

Suddenly the whole area gets dead quiet.  Fripp just lowered his head and
started walked slowly up the ramp towards the van.  Trey Gunn is sort of
"hiding" behind him at this point.  The entire crowd that had just
moments before been surrounding Bruford and "chatting gayly" was now dead
quiet and actually parted down the middle as if it were Moses parting the
Red Sea.  No one said a word, and more than a few people looked at Fripp
as he passed, then actually averted their eyes. No joke.  No
exaggeration.  This was the oddest thing I had ever seen.

And I know everyone there was thinking exactly what I was thinking.  I
would have loved just to say hi to the guy and a nod would have done
nicely in return, but I , like everyone else I guess, was just too
worried that he would have "chastised" me. Publicly.  By Fripp.  It would
have been devastating. No one was willing to take that chance.

I know how the gentleman who got the brush off feels.  I have been a HUGE
fan of Fripp for years, and I've been there for the good stuff and the
not so good stuff.  I have EVERYTHING he's recorded, and he has always
been able to count on my support whether he knows it or not.  And yeah,
it would be cool to get his autograph, and just say "Thanks" for all the
great music over the years, but remember we're talking about Robert Fripp
here.  If he wasn't a bit strange we wouldn't be talking at all because
there would be no Crimso to talk about.  He's supposed to be "out there"
and "on the other side of the fence".  Maybe he is a bit over the top
with the fan thing, but...hey, thats why I like his music...its WAY over
the top. Personally I think he's missing out on just how cool his fans
are, and thats too bad.  But thats the way he wants it and we have to
respect that.

By the way, Levin came out right afterwards and actually remembered my
wife from earlier in the day.  Man, that was a big thrill for her.
Thanks Tony if you read this.  We both appreciate it.

****************
+===+  o   +===+
|   | /|\  |   |
|~~~| Co-"=|~~~|  - The Road Goes on Forever
|___| / \  |___|
****************  - Sez

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:52:00 +0800
From: John dot Lukes at Ebay dot Sun dot COM (John Lukes)
Subject: Fripp's Attitudes: Another Perspective!
The most recent ET Digest (#238) included more comments and viewpoints
regarding "Fripp the man" versus "Fripp the artist."  Here's more
(hopefully) thought-provoking comments:

The discussion around whether Mr. Fripp is a "nice guy" or not, reminds
me of the analogy of the "spy glass" (the hand held telescope).  With a
spy glass, it depends on your perspective, that is, which end you look
into, whether you will see the objects very large or very small.  My
point is that the objects being viewed, you (the viewer), and the spy
glass itself did not change -- it was all in how you looked THROUGH it
(again, your perspective).

By changing one's perspective (by looking through the `other end'), for
instance, one could argue that it was the fan standing by Mr.  Fripp's
table (albeit, patiently) as he was deeply engaged in a private
conversation with someone -- even if in a public setting -- who was the
one being rude!  In that light, Mr. Fripp was simply asserting his right
to privacy (which I see as an honest act).

Remember that Mr. Fripp has indicated in interviews that he puts "Robert
Fripp the Performer" on (like an overcoat) before going on stage and
takes him off when leaving the stage.

And, further, even rudeness is a matter of perspective.  If a hundred
unrelated people from various cultural backgrounds were to observe Mr.
Fripp as he was dealing with a "fan intrusion," how would they "see" it?

I remember reading about Johnny Carson using a handgun to hold an
exuberant fan at bay while the police came to arrest the person
for trespassing.  Was that necessary?  I don't know, I wasn't there.
I'm sure that "fan" can tell people how rude Johnny was to them.  And
I'm sure Johnny can talk about worrying about "loonies" who sometimes
attack the objects of their devotion -- John Lennon, being one.

Perspective.

What a concept!

-JOHN

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:47:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin at ari dot net>
Subject: Re: Bowie & Fripp
>From: Le Monsieur Damon <dcapehar at utdallas dot edu>
>Subject: Bowie & Fripp
>
>Orn Orrason mentioned something about Bowie's not using Fripp because the
>other guy was more convenient.  (Mick Ronson?)

Robert was somewhat more readily available than Ronson. Mick would have
had to overcome a _major_ obstacle to make it to those sessions. You see, he
died a few years ago.

The guitarist on _Outside_ is Reeves Gabrels (sp?) who was a member of
Bowie's Tin Machine band and is a fine musician. Not someone to "settle" for.

-Adam

---
       "A baked potato is more intelligent than a raw potato."
                         - G.I. Gurdjieff

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:11:51 -0500
From: DCOBobW at aol dot com
Subject: Alice: Charade CD
David A. Craig <dac at cosmic dot physics dot ucsb dot edu> writes:

<<Could someone *please* provide some specific release information for
"charade"?  Label and cat numbers would be ideal, but more general
information would be helpful as well ... is it out in the us? britain?
release dates, if not? ... also, is it listed as being by "alice"?  (Is
that the name the group is going by, or is she just going by first name, or
are people just not bothering to give her last name?)>>

The CD is by Alice on WEA, #0630-10417-2, from Warner Music Italy.  I
purchased my copy from the Tower Records near Lincoln Center in New York City
for about $17.  It was racked in International, under Italy, with a separate
divider for Alice.  They had several other Alice CDs in stock in addition to
Charade.

- Bob Wayne, dcobobw at aol dot com

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 23:14:42 GMT
From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (ET Mailing List)
Subject: Fripp
boganp at alpha dot montclair dot edu wrote...

> I realize that there are musicians who, like the rest of us, place a
> certain value on their privacy.  However, music, especially if one's
> going to take it on the road and expose it to both the enjoyment and
> the criticism of the public, is, by nature, a very public event.  As
> such, it calls for a com- promise on the musician's/artist's part,
> requiring that he and the audience meet each other halfway.

It strikes me - and it sounds like many others - that Fripp is rather
willing to take the fan's money but rather less willing to actually
thank them for it. I think the answer to this is to accept the
dichotomy; that great and innovative music can be made by someone who
apparently appears to be personally repellant.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mike Dickson [Team OS/2], Black Cat Software Factory, Musselburgh, Scotland
   mike at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk - Fax 0131-653-6124 - Columnated Ruins Domino
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter" <pes94001 at uconnvm dot uconn dot edu>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 02:32:59 +0000
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239
Hi.  I'm not sure if there will be a digest sent out before Saturday,
so this may be outdated, but if anyone is going to the New Haven show
on 11/18 and wants to get together for a drink before the concert,
e-mail me and let's talk!

The discussion of Fripp's brushing off incident(s?) was/is very
interesting to me, as I find the way that people (myself included)
feel the need to deify musicians a fascinating phenomenon.  I
remember my first concert- Billy Joel when I was 15 years old- and
the feeling of "Oh God I can't believe I'm in the same building as
Billy Joel!!!"  And seven years later I still do the same thing, as I
undoubtedly will/did on Saturday night.

I'm going with the anti-Fripp crowd on this, despite my enormous
respect for him as a musician, and my admiration for much of the
philosophical and ethical stuff I've seen.  Gotta admit, doing a
low budget solo tour of record stores and pizza parlors in the midst
of the excesses of the late 1970s took cajones!  However, there is
such a thing as courtesy, and trying to say hello to someone is not
sufficient grounds to get blown off by them.  There's being a private
person who tries to avoid the adulation of his fans, and then there's
being Rude.

Pete

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 23:56:12
From: WhytNoise at gnn dot com (Stan Jones)
Subject: A few things
Greetings all ETers,

A few comments.

Has anyone ever happened to notice the extreme variety found in
people one meets?  I have, and I for one have never taken offense
at anyones actions that may fall into the catagory as peculilar for
the lone reason that these actions do not equal those of the assessor
or of what the assessor is acustomed to being exposed to.

Mr. Fripp's so called rudeness, to me, has never been more than an
aspect of his personality which in no way augments or detracts from
any musical accomplishments.

Attending a show featuring A League of Gentelman (Crazy Horse, Georgetown,
Washington D.C., 1980?), Mr. Fripp (as Tiny Desk Unit played), walked
past me, stood watching the band, then returned to 'backstage'.  I didn't
personally know the man, he didn't know me, I had nothing to say, nor
did he.

Later in the show, as the League was performing, I was up front dancing
with an unknown woman and we were having the time of our lives.  I looked
at Mr. Fripp on his stool, he apparently liked the effect the band was
having on me and my unknown companion and smiled the warmest of smiles
one could know.  More than I asked for that night and obviously will
not be forgotten.

Enough there, new subject.

We still don't know what the object was that hit Mr. Fripp on
his head, but I swear it came from 'the grassy knoll'.

Another subject.

Good bye.

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:09:56 -0800
From: tcona at ix dot netcom dot com (Anthony J. Cona,Jr. )
Subject: Belew.... Zappa....Bowie....Talikg heads...Crimson
I read the article posted about Belew leaving Zappa to go with Bowie
and thought that it might be wise for all of you to check out the
interview with Belew that and and a friend of mine did with Belew in
May of 1990,while he was touring with Bowie.You can find it on Belew's
web page,where the entire interview is posted.In it he tells of his
entire career up to that point.It is a very informative interview with
Adrian Belew in which he reveals all in his own words.If you want to
know the truth about the kind of person and musician that Adrian Belew
is check it out.
   you'll find it at:
         http://www.iglou.com/hermit/adrian/

 If you want to know who Adrian Belew really is read it!
                 Tony Cona

From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin)
Subject: re ET 235-236-237
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 09:16:52 +0100 (MET)
Following someone advice I read in ET 232, I bought Alice's "Charade".
 Well... It's quite nice, but nothing to jump on the walls. I't's a pleasant

record, but definitely no masterpiece. In some way it reminds me of this
Tony Child's album with Gunn and Fripp. Pleasant, but...
Tried to find Gitbox and the European Strg Chr, but it's not possible to
have them in France, even by import. Oh, Aspic is a snake, and it's a
specie's name that is still in use, at least in France. It's also deeply

connected to magic and esoteric stuff, that leads me to this book from the

discordians, since we know that the Discipline logo was an exact
reproduction of the logo of the "book of Kells " (VIIIth century) . So,
maybe this connection does not sounds that absurd... Esoterism and
Crimson King go hand byhand from the very beginning.
Someone asked about Bartok mode (Mr TAJTHY), and Hungarian modes.
So, this is gonna be quick (I'm no harmony book, and that maybe not
interesting to others frippomaniacs. Since I don't know what is your level
in harmony, let's start real basic. The C major scale is (white keys of a

keyboard) C D E F G A B C (again). This scale is the base on which all
usual harmony is conceived (there are others theories, like Ornette
Coleman's Harmolody, or Russel's chromatic lydian, and a few others, but
it's not the point). Well. Now, if you play this scale starting on A, you have

a A minor natural scale. The root change, it doesn't sound the same but it is

the same notes. That's the whole point, more about this later. This ways of

thinking music (tonality) in term of, let's say, A major, G# minor, and so on

is quite new it appeared just a little bit before J-S BACH, who was a
promoter of the system (it is only about 200 years old). Before this time,

music was thought in terms of modes (there were church modes), that is, a
root and specific pattern of notes. Related to the C major scale, you have

seven modes, containing the same notes. C ionian is Cmaj scale. D dorian
is C major scale you would start on D, E phrygian is like a Cmajor you
would start on the third degree, same with every notes. BUT you let sound,
or reinforce, the D as a root of the mode (in D dorian mode, or a E in E

phrygian mode), so it gives a colour which absolute different from C ionian
(C major), although you play exactly the same notes. A mode has it's own

colour, and can be recognise, as any scale. (sorry, I go very very quick, I

hope I am still followed. Rereading this, it seems confusing more than

explaining).
That is for the modes. Now, there are different scales than major and minor

natural. For example, you have minor melodic, minor harmonic, half tone-
tone, whole tone, and so on, and synthetic modes. AH! Help!
A minor melodic scale is like an hybrid between major whose degree will
be written 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (In C: C, D, E, etc. etc. we already told this) and a

natural minor (which would be 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7. In C: C D bE bF G A B
C). It's formula is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 (in C: C D bE F G A B C). It's sometime

referred at like minor jazz. It has of course seven modes related to it and
the fourth (Lydian b7, what you have when you start a melodic minor scale
its 4th degree) is called sometime "BARTOK mode" Geez, it was about
time we get to this. Its "formula is 1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7. With C as a root it gives
C D E #F G A bB (then back to) C. That is a C Lydian b7 or C "la
Bartok". It's NOT finished. Sorry, you asked, it's your responsibility! In the

time of the Greeks (the mode's name where taken from theirs, but have
to see as far as music is concerned. Somebody found the name "Locrian"
for example, thought it sounded good and used it for seventh mode of the
major scale. The Greeks did not that)
Music was thought in term of "tetra chords" (no sure of spelling in English)

(means four notes, not four chords).
For example, a major scale as 2 same tetra chords separated with 1 tone.
C to D to E to F: 1 tone/ 1 tone/ 1 tone/ 1/2 tone. OK? now, surprise

surprise...
G to A to B to C: 1 tone/ 1 tone/ 1 tone/ 1/2 tone. Whaooo!!! So this

tetrachord is sounding specifically ionian (or Major). If you take an other

mode, you have differently organised tetra chords. Lydian is 1 2 3#4.
Phrygian is 1 b2 b3 4. And you can construct synthetic modes using, a

tetrachord from one mode, and one from another. (Well, everybody did it a
long time ago, it is not brand new). Stick together a C phrygian tetrachord
and a F lydian and you obtain... a mode called major Neapolitan. Or the old

enigmatic mode used by Joe Satriani once. (1 b2 3 #4 #5 #6 7), or...AH
AH! Here we got it! the Hungarians modes! (2 different modes: minor
Hungarian is 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7. major Hungarian is 1 #2 3 #4 5 6 b7) If you

change 1, 2, 3 etc. with C, D, etc. you have the notes for C major
Hungarian or C minor Hungarian. Because it appeared that some synthetic
modes were the same as some old "folkish" modes, so we have different
Chinese modes, a Jew mode (also named Spanish Phrygian or Ahava
Rabbah used by Miles Davis, in Nardis), two Hungarians modes, three
Orientals, a bohemian, and some very odd sounding modes..... There an

incredible lot of these, and you musician, should dig into this was it for the

pleasure of discovering new colours. THAT'S IT!!!
Hope I didn't bore too many people. I even hope some were interested in
all this. To end all this about synthesisers, EVERY music intrument is a
piece of technology, was a it a turtle with ropes. and each is a tool for

working, which the most important part of the story. People who despise

machines, think that samplers kill music/intelligence/imagination
remember that actually, a RECORD IS A SAMPLE OF MUSIC, NOT
THE REAL THING, so stop buying records, go the concerts (the real
thing) since records have nothing to do music. Just a piece of technology
that always produce the same sound the same way (even a sampler can do
more than a CD player, when it comes with being musical and versatile).
As far as clarity is concerned, don't be surprised your vinyl, although all

these noises, sound better. From pure physics measurement, an old old old
old 78 rnd/mn record already has more dynamics in low level than a CD.
That's life. When in cool parts of a playing, a music, or whatever, you are
not using the 16 bits of the CD but only 2, 3 some time even 1. Even the
worst telephone has a better resolution. CD was designed for constant high

level music. So when remasterised for digital tranfert, a record has to be

adapted to those limitation of digital treatment, analog don't have (Ok, they

have others...) Digital quality is more like a merchant masquerade, sold as

High-tech quality. Boys, we have been fooled...
I' ve also a comment to make about this synchro stuff someone wrote
about. I have a whole theory about it but I guess you should wait until next

posting!!!! because I'm gonna get edited by Toby...
By folks...
Whoops, last thing, in a Stick festival, I saw an album of two Stick players,

>from a band named Kiss Of Death, but I'm not sure anymore, with a
vocalist named Toyah Wilcox (hum hum...) The guys were, I think (not
sure) Germans, any clues?
Olivier "Thanx for listening" Malhomme.

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:20:31 -0800
From: Steve Goodman <sgoodman at primenet dot com>
Organization: EarthLight Productions
Subject: A Fripp Remembrance
Back during the '80 League of Gentleman tour, I picked up six tickets
and went with a friend down to Asbury Park to see them, knowing it was
going to be something different.  Needless to say, on a teller's pay,
the failure of four pals to show up to get their tickets, and therefore
pay for them, caused us to have to live on 2 hot dogs and a beer apiece
(for the carbohydrates, of course).  I was faced with the uncomfortable
(at least!) concept of selling tickets in front of the Fast Lane, which
was impossible given the size of the bouncer out front.

Alas, I turned towards a figure passing me with a multi-coloured
umbrella as he passed up the street... and, as if passed through a
delay, I suddenly realized that it was RF himself.  After recovering
>from a moment of shock, I stopped trying to sell the tix, and just went
in.

Some time later, I went up to the bar to get a club soda (they were
free then), and while the bartendress was getting it, out of the corner
of my eye, to my right - it was Fripp again, not three feet away,
getting a tunafish sandwich and water, and walking right through the
crowd, to my astonishment.  I again noted this 'delayed reaction'
effect, and this was reflected by the crowed as he passed through it,
across the main dance floor, and it was as if a wake of delayed
recognition followed him.  Around three or four feet after he passed
them, their heads would turn quickly, in possibly the same amazement,
the "It's HIM" kind of look.

Under Heavy Manners had just begun to surface in the New York City
stores, and a number of New Yorkers were talking in terms of 'more than
just frippertronics', though I thought I'd decide for myself.  Of
course, the League of Gentlemen hadn't been released yet, so it was a
delightful surprise to hear the new material.  They must have played
most of the songs on the album, and the crowd was well-tempered, with
the exception of one fellow (I think he's still chasing KC on tour,
judging by someone at the LA shows in June/July!) who kept yelling out,
"Yeah, Bob" and "Hey, Robert".  I believe at one pause in the music,
Fripp had advised him to put that energy into listening and maybe
dancing to the music.

At the end of the show, someone handed up a charicature of Fripp to
him, whereupon he showed it to the cheering crowd, then handed it back
to him.  This would be consistent with the remnants of the Vampiric
Nature situation, as well as the idea of discouraging any form of
adoration in favor of perhaps emulation.

Nonetheless, it was 2am or so by the time my friend and I got out of
there.  We headed up the New Jersey Turnpike, and, on the verge of
falling asleep, headed into a rest stop, of the kind only the NJ
Turnpike can provide [shudder].  The two of us continued to come down
>from the show, and the exposure to the new material.

Our brains were slowly coming back to life, over a donut and coffee
apiece, when I noticed a van drive into the lot.  A number of men and a
woman got out, but it wasn't until the door opened and they all walked
in that I realized that it was the band.  I fought the shock to tell my
friend, whose back was to all of this.

We'd been having an exchange of religion jokes, and when the blood ran
out of my face a little, and I looked over his shoulder and said, "It's
HIM", he joked back, "God?"  I was at a loss for words.

They all went through the cafeteria and got something.  I noticed that
Fripp got a tunafish sandwich again.  And then, as both of us went
apoplectic, the entire band walked down our aisle on the way out.  My
friend and I were in as close as a catatonic state as you could get
>from all this, when Fripp stopped at a nearby table, got a couple of
sugar packets, and continued on out.

Needless to say, we were awake enough to get home, and finished up
quickly, hopped in the car, and took off north on the Turnpike again.

Right around the place where the Turnpike splits off to the George
Washington Bridge, we saw their van again, moving off into the
darkness.  Neither of us cared how late it was, nor that we both had to
be at work at 8.  It did seem like the 80s had started off well.

But I'll never stop wondering whether he was giving us a chance to say
something when he stopped for the sugar or not.

S.

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 03:05:11 -0600
From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (James Hines)
Subject: HELP!! (again)
PLEASE help me!  If you're willing to get me a T-shirt at the upcoming KC
gig that you're attending I'd so greatly appreciate it.  E-mail me if you
will do this small favor.  I'll gladly pay all shipping costs and any other
costs that may arise.  I am desperate.  Brockum does not supply merchandise
>from the concerts so I'm stuck w/out your help.  Lemme know asap if you'll
do this for me.  Thanks mounds.

"Where's that confounded bridge?"
THRAK on,
James "THE MAN" Hines
cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 03:31:02 -0600
From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (James Hines)
Subject: Crimson on Conan
All in all, I thought it was a good performance, but there were some
problems.  I really wish they hadn't done a cut version of Dinosaur.  $100
says that if they had played Letterman last May, it would've been exactly
the same.  OK, the performance...Personally, I would've preferred Walking
On Air to a cut Dinosaur.  The middle section is the best part of the song!
It was obvious that the band were pretty nervous, esp Tony.  I was
disappointed that they only showed like 1 shot of Pat and 1, maybe 2 shots
of Trey.  Robert and Adrian are not King Crimson.  They are collectively
1/3 of the band.  I knew that Adrain would get most of the shots (because
he's singing and they couldn't do an instrumental, it just wouldn't show
how the *full* band is-his vox is a good part of it.) and I'm also glad
that they gave Fripp some really good shots.  He definately wasn't that
lighted at the gigs.  His scarf was really cool as well.

Afterwards, Fripp seemed very *odd* (can't think of a better word) about
shaking Conan's hand.  But did you see Trey?  He nearly jumped to shake his
hand!  I've never seen him smile that big!  The thing that disappointed me
most was that it was not an adequate representation of King Crimson.  I
know, it was TV and they only had 5 minutes so an improv wouldn't have been
in order, but it seemed that they compromised a bit by playing a cut
version of the main single from the new album.  Pop bands do that.  To an
average listener, Crimson were probobly just some band.  If I was Joe-pop,
that wouldn't have really made me want to see them live.  For those of you
who haven't seen them live, man, there's just so much energy there.  And
you can look at whomever you want.  Pat and Trey play some great stuff on
Dinosaur and it's too bad that they weren't shown.

OK, maybe this isn't totally fair.  It was so great to see them on national
TV and hopefully someone out there will buy THRAK because of it.  And just
to hear Conan say the words "King Crimson" made me smile.  My opinion: (as
a whole) "I like it!!"

THRAKking the night away,
James "THE MAN" Hines
cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 11:26:06 GMT
From: cbackham at uk dot mdis dot com (Clive Backham)
Subject: That speeded-up bit on Exposure....
In ET #239, I wrote:

>Conclusion: given that the original speech is very likely to have lasted
>more than 2 minutes, the chances of decoding it from Exposure are almost
>certainly nil.
>
>Nevertheless, having convinced myself that it won't work, I've decided
>to try the experiment anyway. Watch this space.

Well, I transferred the segment in question to hard disk and played around
with it. I tried slowing it down by factors of 3, 10, 30 and 100. At every
step, all that I heard was the random static getting slower and lower,
until such point that it was just a low rumble.

Clive Backham
McDonnell Information Systems, UK
email: cbackham at uk dot mdis dot com

PS. Lest I be thought of as some kind of obsessive nutcase for actually
trying this out, I would just like to point out I normally only wear an
anorak while skiing.

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 08:45:08 -0600
From: gdstrip at edge dot edge dot net (George and Dianne Stripling)
Subject: Re:last hope
        I find it amazing that so many ET subscribers will defend Mr. Fripp
to the death when his attitude towards the public is the issue, but when a
fellow subscriber seems to have an unpleasant disposition, everyone takes
the oppurtunity to lecture on the benefits of a positive attitude. I find
this openly hippocritical phenomenon repulsive. The notion that someone's
"art" elevates them beyond a certain respect for others is stupid. I hope
that someone will write me otherwise, for I seem to have lost all faith
once again.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
          George Stripling Jr.

          gdstrip at edge dot net

          http://edge.edge.net/~gdstrip/
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 09:35:59 EST
From: acohen at lib dot com
Subject: belew's lyrics
     Jeremy sez:

     : I occasionally see people criticize Adrian's lyrics. This is quite
     : strange
     : to me, as I see him as one of the better (hell, best, the market is
     : so bad)
     : lyricists out there.

     It can't be that I'm the only one on this list who thinks that Adrian
     Belew is the best lyricist Crimson has ever had -- by a wide margin,
     in my opinion.

     I've always found Pete Sinfield's lyrics to be *way* overwrought and
     pretentious (even when I was in high school), and Palmer-James wasn't
     much better (Health food faggot? Caught me licking fudge? Very
     amusing).

     Adrian may not be the most "serious" lyricist around, but he has a
     good way with words, and, as an instrumentalist (and the one who sings
     his own words), I think he's much more successful at integrating them
     into the music.

     Who else feels this way?

     --Art

     (PS Yes, I *love* the old Crimson and I bought "The Great Deceiver" as
     soon as it came out -- but I've always found the vocals and lyrics in
     old Crimson to be the most embarressing thing about them, especially
     when I'm trying to introduce them to someone new)

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 10:06:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Sanjay Krishnaswamy <skrishna at diamond dot tufts dot edu>
Subject: William Faulkner, Bridge Between, and rotational symmetry
In response to Brian Ritchie in the previous ET I'd like to point out that
(as I recall) the Discipline logo _does_ have a C2 axis (i.e. 180 degree
rotational symmetry) only the axis is in the plane of the logo, not
perpendicular to it.  (Haven't seen any math for a while and lost on the
language?  Look at the thing, try hard, and maybe you'll figger out what
I'm trying to say, and say it better.)

BTW here's one of those half-assed Crimson philosophy posts for you to
just ignore.  I was reading RF's liner notes on the RFSQ album (Bridge
Between) just after hearing the really dark "Threnody" at the album's
end.  I was surprised to read, that in fact they are about hope, and the
musician creating the unreasonable phenomenon of hope.  I am a Faulkner
buff and recalled, of all things, Faulkner's Nobel Prize acceptance
speech.  Here, Faulkner, who was known for the _very_ dark _Absalom,
Absalom!_ and other novels exploring human failure, hidden perversity,
etc., stunned everyone by giving a speech about hope, man's infinite
ability to suffer.  So again, the theme: the artist explores misery, but
his real focus is hope.  I guess that's something I'm starting to see in
some other really vicious Crimson music but it hasn't really gelled in my
head yet -- thought I'd drop the idea into the well here and see what
comes out.

_______________________________________________________________________________
Sanjay Krishnaswamy
skrishna at opal dot tufts dot edu
skrishna at diamond dot tufts dot edu
_______________________________________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:25:58 -0500
From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" <ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com>
Subject: Belew & Eno
Someone was mentioning Eno's discovery of Belew, which kicked off an
interesting memory I though you all might be interested in. Back in 1981 (or
1980, I forget) I attempted to see the League of Gentlemen at Irving Plaza in
NYC. The warm-up band was called "Gaga" and featured (said a sign in the
window) "Adrian Beleu". I actually remember standing behind him in the lobby
waiting to get in, Adrian wearing a Hawaiin shirt he frequently sported in
those days. Gaga was interesting, but had Adrian playing guitar, singing, and
on taped drums (he did "Boys Keep Swinging", among other tunes). I thought his
performance simultaneously brilliant and Geek-like (in the jazz sense, i.e.,
bite-the-head-off-a-chiken-for-a-buck). Becuase LOG was scheduled to come on at
1:00AM or so (and I had never attended a club date before), I had to get home
to bad-ass Brooklyn. On my way out, there was Eno standing with a Japanese gal,
stating that the black gentleman standing next to them was the guitarist on his
next album. (Anyone know who that could be?) I tried to shake his hand, but the
Japanese gal slid in front of me, causing me to evaporate.  Sometime later
"Remain in Light" by the Talking Heads (with Belew's best work ever) appeared.
I read later that Eno had gone to the show to grab Adrian for that recording.
Sometime later I saw the Talking Heads in central park (still before that album
came out), and who should appear onstage in that same Hawaiin shirt but Belew.
Soon after that, of course, came the 80s version of KC.
-Emory.

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:31:34 -0500
From: KCahalan at aol dot com
Subject: Columbus Tickets
I may be forced to part with two very good seats (2nd row, first balcony) for
the Columbus show on November 27th.  Anybody interested?  $48 for the two.

Or if anyone in Pittsburgh or Western Pennsylvania is interested in a
road-trip. . . . . It'll break my heart to miss this show.  My friend backed
out and I can't find anyone else to make the trip.

Please e-mail me ASAP at KCahalan at aol dot com

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 11:58:09 EST
From: acohen at lib dot com
Subject: You'll never tune up in this town again!
     Someone said:

     I read this.  It strikes me as very amusing.  Does Robert (or Trey?)
     think he is so big in the music industry that he can break another
     artist with a nod of the head?  I really don't think anyone in KC went
     around calling record publishers telling them "don't every publish
     anything by...".  And even if they did, the response would almost
     certainly be "Who cares what you think?  You're not recording on my
     label."

     - - -

     Well, I suspect that he may have been speaking facetiously. On the
     other hand, I suspect that Tony Levin (and Pat M., for that matter)
     has done enough session work for just about everyone in the business,
     that he might have a little more "pull" than Robert or Trey.

     --Art

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 12:24:27 -0500
From: Otherroad at aol dot com
Subject: Re: Ingesting "substances"
I must say that I disagree with Leon Marcus' reply to Gideon Banner's inquiry
on the perfect "substance" to ingest before a King Crimson concert.  The
perfect substance is, in fact, rootbeer and pizza (with lots of sausage).

But seriously, I have to agree with Leon's sentiment.  Altering one's state
of conscious will only distort the event and hide the true beauty of it.  But
I'd like to take that one step further and say I would politely disagree with
Leon's closing statement which I think was something to the effect of, "Do
what suits you best."

I remember in one of Bill Cosby's comedy routine's he addressed the subject
of drugs, in this instance cocaine.  He said he asked someone why they'd want
to take that stuff anyway.  The reply in a rather intense fashion was,
"Because it intensifies your personality!"  To which Cos replied, "Yes, but
what if you're an asshole?"

In other words, haven't we all had our share of stoned assholes at concerts
marring what otherwise was a great event?  Who of us wants to be sitting next
to Gideon at this great show after he's "ingested his substance?"

Gary

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 12:19:28 -0500
From: JimKlo at aol dot com
Subject: Two Weeks From Today
Two weeks from today will be the morning after what is rapidly becoming one
of the most anticipated concerts I can remember...and there have been a lot
of them in my almost 25 years of concert going.  Thanks to fellow ET'ers with
their wonderful descriptions of their concert experiences, me, my 15 year-old
son and his three friends are now counting the days to see Fripp and Co.  The
Conan O'Brien appearance Tuesday night (Mr. Fripp, your guitar playing is
truly remarkable. Know that it is influencing yet another generation of
musicians), watched on tape repeatedly last night with my son, only serves to
heighten the excitement.

Judging from some of the concert descriptions, I sincerely hope that my son's
first concert experience is not marred by drunken loutishness.  Since this
will be the first time that I have seen Crimson since I first was given
ItCotCK as a Christmas present from my brother, I hope the same for myself.

A closing comment re:the recent rash of Fripp bashing in ET over his
reluctance to "press the flesh".  While I would find it a great experience
for my son and I to actually talk to any member of King Crimson after the
concert, I also respect the artist's right to
cringe in horror when approached by any member of the general public. How
would you
feel being approached continuously by some potentially drunk or stoned person
that you wouldn't know from Adam?  How do you react when a panhandler
approaches you on the street?  While I agree that any artist who depends on
the public for their continued success should make themselves available on a
limited basis to meet their fans face to face,  I also realize that by
performing in public, an artist is providing just that...the opportunity for
their fans to experience their artistry live, first hand, and
as it happens.  What more do you want?
As Steve Martin once said "I'd like to thank each and every member of the
audience
personally...thankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthankuthank
u"

See you at the Rosemont!

Jim K.

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 10:02:09 -0800
From: Rob dot Rosen at West dot Sun dot COM ( Rob Rosen - SMCC Project Manager)
Subject: 'Easy Money' lyrics
	Am I the only person who's noticed that the "studio" lyrics for
'Easy Money' differ somewhat from the "live" lyrics heard on various
recordings of the mid-70s KC incarnation?

	Specifically, the "live" lyrics, if I'm hearing them correctly,
appear to contain what some would consider to be a scatalogical reference.
Has anyone else noticed this?

	If there's a story behind the difference (i.e., country or label
censorship), I'm curious to hear it.

	thanks

	Rob

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Rosen			Project Management		     SMCC
510.463.5432			Rob dot Rosen at West dot Sun dot COM		FAX:510.734.9910

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:35:33 -0800
From: jamjar at UVic dot CA (j r mabbott)
Subject: What To Injest Before A KC Concert.
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 20:22:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Gideon B Banner <gideon dot banner at yale dot edu>
Subject:

We have it!  Final confirmation as to what hit Robert Fripp in the head!
No more guessing, no more speculation, no more sleepless nights worrying
about the Crimson King's health, no more!  The truth has arrived!  Its
light will shine on all of us!  And the truth is:

It was a CD.

   What was the CD?  I certainly hope it wasn't a CK CD.

I've got an important question.  This might not be the right, forum, but
hey, here goes: Are there any opinions out there as to what sort of
substances one might want to ingest before attending a Crimson show?  I've
been wondering if I should or not, and other people's opinions might help.

   I usually eat dinner.  ;-)

regards,

j robert mabbott
zaerrf music

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:35:55 -0800
From: jamjar at UVic dot CA (j r mabbott)
Subject: Synthesizers
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 12:27:10 -0600
From: gdstrip at edge dot net (George and Dianne Stripling)
Subject: re: sythesizers

In ET #236, Gordon Emory Anderson wrote:

>a synthesizer player is not able to dynamically and instaneously control
>the overtones

Being a keyboardist, guitarist, and a combination of the two, even with a
stick for several years, I'd have to say that a synthesizer can do more than
what MIDI will even ask it to do.  In fact, with a synthesizer, I can do
more than a dozen bands, and an entire orchestra, all by my self, and
simultaneously.  I just wish I actually had a CD of stuff that was ready so
I could prove it.

I can even recreate Robert Fripp's sound on the Soundscapes albums with a
synthesizer, playing a guitar on a keyboard... you just need equipment with
similar capabilities.

regards,

j robert mabbott
zaerrf music

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:43:18 -0800
From: Rob MacCoun <maccoun at violet dot berkeley dot edu>
Subject: Celebrity encounters
Woody Allen had a movie in the 1970s -- please don't respond with 12 ET
posts reminding me which one -- that illustrated (viciously, but not
unfairly) how truly vampiric fans can be, each approaching a celebrity and
attempting to have a meaningful conversation that (a) touches the celebrity
in some lasting way, and (b) provides a trophy anecdote to take home and
show off at parties.  So I'm sympathetic with Mr. Fripp.  My new personal
rule of thumb is: when opportunity and impulse strike, just say no!  (Don't
flame me; I said "personal" rule; do what you like.)  I say "new rule"
because in the past, almost everytime I had an opportunity to approach a
celebrity in a contrived way, I've ended up feeling stupid, even when
they've been gracious.  I've had a few exceptions -- encounters that went
well.  One could argue that one juicy plumb outweighs the dozen lemons, but
that only considers my side of the ledger, not the celebrity's side of the
ledger.  (Think of Kant's categorical imperative: what if everyone did what
I do?)  And my few good encounters all share in common that the celebrity
actively solicited interaction with fans.

Quick anecdote: mid-1980s, I encountered Brian Eno in a bookstore.  Quick,
think of a clever entree.  Ah, I'll bet he doesn't know that his Oblique
Strategies cards were cited (with a formal cite in the reference section) in
the prestigious 1985 edition of the HANDBOOK OF SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY.  "Mr.
Eno, did you realize BLAH BLAH BLAH...?"  He looked at me quizically and
said, in a friendly but bemused tone, "sounds utterly boring."  And went his
way.  To understand how deflated I felt, you have to realize that as a
budding young social psychologist, in 1985 I actually believed that to be
cited in the HSP was a profoundly important event.  And the notion that Eno
(from my secret personal life) would be cited there (in the bible of my new
professional life) was remarkable to me, and hence should seem remarkable to
him!  Now, older, more professionally secure, and more jaded, I laugh at
what a geek I was.  But I wouldn't do it over again.

Having said all this, my dirty confession is that I love reading everyone
else's celebrity encounter anecdotes.  Go figure.

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 14:50:21 -0500
From: Ajbas at aol dot com
Subject: Re: Where do they get off . . .
In ET #239, david at visix dot com (David Charlap) writes . . .

> Subject: Trey Gunn's road diary
> Excepted from http://www.rockslide.com/crimson/trey/diary.html:

> >When we were in ...... Dallas???...... during the bows at the end of
> >the show some idiot threw his CD and it hit Robert right in the
> >head. Though it obviously wasn't a malicious act, the stupidity was
> >unbelievable. Not only will this loser's CD never be heard by any of
> >us, HE'LL NEVER WORK IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS AGAIN.

> I read this.  It strikes me as very amusing.  Does Robert (or Trey?)
> think he is so big in the music industry that he can break another
> artist with a nod of the head?

David, I think you took what Trey wrote in is diary a little too seriously!
 I think he meant it as more of a joke.  And why are you mentioning Robert at
all?  This is from TG's diary, not RF's!

> I really don't think anyone in KC went around calling record
> publishers telling them "don't every publish anything by...

I agree with you, I'm sure none of the band made any phone calls.

> Robert should realize that he (and King Crimson in general) is not a
> superstar band.

To me, they are.

> Record companies are not going to bow down and kiss
> his feet.  Maybe they would if he was on the level of Pink Floyd (who
> manage to sell out football stadiums), but he's nowhere near that
> level of popularity.

I think after being in the music business for over 30 years now, Mr. Fripp
realizes exactly who he (and King Crimson in general) is.  Pink Floyd?  I can
hear RF's chuckles now . . .

> I think he's a very good musician (at least the stuff he's done with
> KC), but record companies don't care about talent or music.  They only
> care about what will sell.

Talk about an overgeneralization!!!  Sorry, it's just not that black and
white.  Besides, who says they know what will or won't sell?  (I can't
believe you've got me defending record companies ;) )

Andrew (Ajbas at aol dot com)

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 14:50:18 -0500
From: Ajbas at aol dot com
Subject: Belew's Lyrics
In ET #239, Tefkros Symeonides <tsymeo at zenon dot logos dot hol dot gr> writes . . .

> The lyrics in the three 81-84 albums are unquestionably...well...terrible.

Now come on, Tefkros, even IYHO, terrible?  Terrible is a very strong word.
 I reserve terrible for, well, turn on the radio [insert band here].  ;)  But
seriously, that's not fair compairing the best from PS or RPJ to Heartbeat.
 Come on, how about:

Here is the angel of the world's desire,
Placed on trial,
To hide in shrouded alley silhouettes,
With cigarette coiled,
To strike at passing voices,
Dark and suspect,
Here is the howling ire.

Here is the sacred face of rendezvous,
In subway sour,
Whose grand delusions prey like intellect,
In lunatic minds,
Intent and focused on,
The long thin matches,
To light the howling fire.

Alright, get a hold of yourself,
An' don't fight it, it's over your head.
 :)  (just kidding!)

Andrew (Ajbas at aol dot com)

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 19:56:28 GMT
From: buckley at csra dot net (Peter Dell'olio)
Subject: CONAN, ATLANTA
i SAW "DINOSAUR " LAST NIGHT ,WOW!!!!!

I WENT TO BOTH SHOWS IN ATLANTA OVER THE WEEKEND .tHEY ARE HOT!!!

I WORK FOR A RADIO STATION DOWN HERE AND THE SOUTHERNERNS LOVE THE NEW
CRIMSON.......I LOVE IT ALL INCLUDING LIZARD!!!

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 15:09:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Gideon B Banner <gideon dot banner at yale dot edu>
Subject: Lyrics, drugs, Ppirf
	About the drug question, I'm sorry, I suppose this isn't really
the right forum in which to air such a question.  But I figured that
there are definitely Crimson fans who have done and/or still do
experiment with drugs, and thought that they might have opinions on the
subject.  I do not simply want to be lit off my derriere so that I end up
seeing the walls move and so on -- seeing or listening to music, for me,
really changes the entire experience.  It's like the difference between
listening to a song while driving and listening to it while lying down --
it changes the song entirely.  First time I heard Sailor's Tale (my first
Crimson song, actually) I was driving around LA, and a certain perception
of the song ingrained itself into my mind.  Next time I heard was in a
dark, quiet room -- much more intensive mental experience.  The point of
drugs, for me, is to explore a now potential area of the music.  Anyway,
I'm to go sober to the show (no applause, please), as Crimson requires a
great deal of mental and psychological stability, especially in concert.
And sorry, Toby, if I did wrong in asking the question.

Anyway-- as to Belew's lyrics, I really haven't ever been that into
them.  "Heartbeat" has always been a ridiculous song to me just because
of the cheesy lyrics.  "SSEDD" is another matter.  But for the most part,
IMHO, Belew relies on entirely metaphoric lyrics, much as Sinfield did
back in the early incarnations.  And I have recently begun to wonder why
metaphoric lyrics hold such a heavy sway over contemporary popular music
-- take Pearl Jam, Live, Hoochie, and of them, they all employ entirely
metaphoric lyrics (and nasal vocalization, and long protracted "Yeahs").
Why is this so?  Probably derives, I'd think, from the idea that
songwriting is "poetry", a ridiculous concept, one that Sinfield used
(although to better effect than most).  And then there is generally some
implication that the music is somehow metaphoric as well, that the melody
expresses a direct concept or image.  But is not music one of the least
metaphoric of the media?  Enter into the picture Zappa, Phish, and the
blues: the first brought humor into lyrics (and music), crafted his own
style, played with narrative; the second employs nonsensical word
fragments that play with the listener's attempts to comprehend them; the
last attempts to express an emotional state.  Belew's lyrics, I would
say, are most powerful when they do not attempt to be metaphoric: SSEDD,
Indiscipline, Thela Hun Ginjeet, etc. Indiscipline has always struck me
as being great in part because of its lyrics -- like Phish, they play
with the listener's attempts to make sense of them, when they are simply
phrases Belew picked up somewhere (I forget where).

Meanwhile, back on the farm....

From: Jon Jorstad (PRO) <a-jonj at microsoft dot com>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 12:01:16 PST
Subject: Trey strikes again
David Charlap wrote:

>Subject: Trey Gunn's road diary

>Excepted from http://www.rockslide.com/crimson/trey/diary.html:
>>
>>When we were in ...... Dallas???...... during the bows at the end of
>>the show some idiot threw his CD and it hit Robert right in the
>>head. Though it obviously wasn't a malicious act, the stupidity was
>>unbelievable. Not only will this loser's CD never be heard by any of
>>us, HE'LL NEVER WORK IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS AGAIN.

>I read this.  It strikes me as very amusing.  Does Robert (or Trey?)
>think he is so big in the music industry that he can break another
>artist with a nod of the head?  I really don't think anyone in KC went
>around calling record publishers telling them "don't every publish
>anything by...".  And even if they did, the response would almost
>certainly be "Who cares what you think?  You're not recording on my
>label."

I think Trey would be saying, "Gotcha!"  (He was joking.  At least
that's how I read it.)

Jon

Date: 16 Nov 1995 14:48:41 -0600
From: "John Ott" <John_Ott at ATK dot COM>
Subject: A Stick is a Stick
                   A Stick is a Stick
RE > "Warr Guitar"

Saying Trey plays a Warr Guitar and Tony plays a Chapman Stick
is like saying Robert plays a Les Paul (Tokai Les Paul copy on the road) and
Adrian plays
a Stratocaster.  Trey and Tony both play stick and Robert and Adrian play
guitar.
Check the album credits they list the instruments not the brands.

RE> "David Cross violin"

Eddie Jobson plays an acrylic (clear) violin live and thus had no problem
with
either Phil Manzanera or John Wetton drowning him out.  Check out Roxy Music
"Viva" (live)
or "UK live" (John Wetton plays on both).  Acoustic instruments in loud bands
do make headaches for sound engineers.  (and the musicians playing them)
I've seen "Bluegrass" bands at large
outdoor festivals have an awfull time being loud enough to hear without
feedback.

see ya
john

From: Jeremy Lakatos <jeremy at grove dot ufl dot EDU>
Subject: Sinfield's Lyrics
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:32:58 -0500 (EST)
On the other hand, if you want to talk about awful lyrics:

"Said the straight man to the late man
Where have you been
I've been here and I've been there
And I've been in between"

"Cadence and Cascade
Kept a man named Jade;
Cool in the shade"

"No use to complain
If you're caught out in the rain;
Your mother's quite insane.
Cat food  cat food  cat food  again."
	(Well I like this song, but I like Phish's lyrics too--wouldn't call
	them poetic.)

"Your mean teetotum spins arouse your seventh wife
Who pats her sixty little skins
And reinsures your life"

"No man yields who flies in my ship
	DANGER!
Let the bridge computer speak
	STRANGER!
LOAD YOUR PROGRAM. I AM YOURSELF."

I think that's more than enough. Sounds to me like someone who wants to
sound poetic and important, but who doesn't want to work for it. I could
go further, using words like 'meaning' and 'cheese,' but that'd be
inflammatory.

So who's left? Palmer-James. What about him?

-- If you can tolerate amateur poetry enough to do a SUCK/NOT SUCK poll,
   PLEASE check out http://grove.ufl.edu/~jeremy. (jeremy at grove dot ufl dot edu)

From: thomas byran owens <tbowen00 at mik dot uky dot edu>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 17:00:49 -0500
Subject: Synthesizers & Vinyl
Going on with the mellotron/synth good-bad debate....

    I at one time despised synthesizers of any sort. I had played sax at one
time and was convinced I'd never be able to do so professionally due to the
horrid synthesized shit I heard on commercial radio. Thankfully most of that
changed when I heard synthesizers used *creatively*, which moves on into my
minor diatribe. :)
    I can see a great deal of merit in using a synthesized sound when that
sound either is completely unavailable, whether by monetary or geographical
inconveniences, or the available players that produce the sound aren't of
the desired calibre (Zappa's plague). The other major reason for Synthesizer
Merit is the production of sounds that /did not/ exist.
    Quite a few musicians today (especially in the techno-dance genre) use
synths and sequencers to produce their music (which I find minimal and self-
consuming to a fault) which is full of somewhat unique sounds...but they use
them in a manner that says, "Huh huh. I made a cool noise there."
    The joyful opposite of the above are musicians like Fripp, Belew, Zappa,
and Eno that created new sounds from their instruments and then went on to
use them in a truly unique fashion. Fripps soundscapes are great, especially
for the improvisational symphonic sound of it all.
    Now insofar as dragging out the mellotron for it's unique sound, the
above still applies. On _Thrak_, the mellotron is being used compositionally.
I personally find it perfectly fine. On the other hand, I really hate it when
bands drag out an old mellotron for "that nostalgic sound" and really don't
do anything with it.

As for Thrak on vinyl...the main market I've noticed for vinyl these days are
dance/hip=hop dj's and the whole indie rock scene. _The First Day_ has some
really great grooves on it (especially "Darshan") which would make it appealing
to dj's. Chances are it isn't viable to put _Thrak_ out on vinyl. However,
wouldn't it be *really* neat to con a club DJ to suddenly mix in "THRAK" itself?
I'd love to watch everyone squirm to the multi-meters in that beast.

Anyhow...have fun. :)
T. Owens

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 19:39:27 -0500
From: MarkDAshby at aol dot com
Subject: Gig Review: Wilkes-Barre, PA 11/15
Having already seen KC once this summer in Philadelphia, I wondered what
changes were in store for me from that show to this one.  Wilkes-Barre isn't
all that close to me (about a four hour drive), but since that was as close
as they came to Washington, it was there or nothing.

I took along some musical friends of mine whose affinity for KC far predates
mine (well, gimme a break, they're about twice my age), and neither had seen
KC since the '80's, so they were chomping at the bit to get there.  Judging
>from the other show reports I had been reading here, I told them they were in
for some real ear candy.

The Kirby Center in Wilkes-Barre is probably the most elegant venue I've ever
been in for a rock concert.  Plush carpet, chandeliers, roomy seats with nice
cushions.  Quite enjoyable.  Our seats were right of center in the orchestra,
so we had a fairly good vantage point for the show.

Some of the reviewers so far have commented on the idiots they get sitting
next to them or who are in the crowd in general.  I have to say that from
where I was sitting, there were very few of those in Wilkes-Barre.  But there
are always a couple spread around somewhere...  Actually, the guy behind me
who kept yelling "More sugar!" after every song from "People" until the end
of the show got on my nerves a little.  But at least that was all.  Usually
I'm not so lucky.  I was proud of this crowd for their demeanor --
enthusiastic when necessary and quietly appreciative when appropriate.

The CGT came on slightly early (!) by my watch, and the crowd received their
material quite well.  One of my companions on this trip had attended the
Guitar Craft school years ago and said that he played with at least two of
them before.  "They were always way ahead of everyone else in there," he told
me.  "I'm not surprised to see them up there at all."  He also commented that
their set made him extremely proud of Guitar Craft's work.  And admittedly, I
enjoyed it more this time than the first time around.

After about 15 minutes after their conclusion, the lights went down again.
 Two large drums had been set facing each other at center stage.  Bruford and
Mastellotto emerged and the spotlights shone on them as they pounded in
unison to what felt like a tribal kind of beat to me.  My other companion
commented after the show that "it felt like they were signaling the beginning
of a ritual."  Indeed, that could have been the intent.  As they drummed
Belew stood in back of and between them in the ambient light.  Once the two
were done and as the cheers washed over them, Adrian twanged out those
familiar opening chords to "Thela Hun Ginjeet."  Fripp, Levin and Gunn
emerged as the drummers took their places.  From there, it was loads of fun.

Set list (and I'm almost positive I remember this correctly):
Drum intro
Thela Hun Ginjeet
Neurotica
Red
Three of a Perfect Pair
Dinosaur
One Time
VROOOM VROOOM
Frame by Frame
B'Boom
THRAK
Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream
People
Tony and Trey on sticks
Indiscipline
Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part II

First encore:
Elephant Talk
Walking on Air

Second encore:
Drum trio
VROOOM
Coda

Highlight of the show was definitely the B'Boom/THRAK section.  The
improvising and counterplay here was absolutely astounding.  The middle
section of THRAK was much different than the album version, much quieter and
primal.  Fripp's soundscapes beforehand were also quite moving, as he used
some cosmic sounds and even some vocal sounds.  Someone else on ET also
commented (I believe) on how when the band stopped during THRAK, they just
picked back up in unison again without any noticeable cue.  The same happened
here.  I didn't realize it until after it happened, but that amazed me.

The drum trio was also quite fun.  I don't know what it looked like other
places, but here they brought those two big drums back out, added a row of
cowbells and other noisemakers, and Belew, Bruford, and Mastellotto stood in
a triangle around them (in that order left to right).  Both Broof and Pat had
a chance to do some soloing, and the shouts of "BRUFORD!" were quite
pronounced (I think his fan club might have made up about a quarter of the
crowd).

Adrian did "Indiscipline" a little differently than what I'd been hearing in
ET.  In other reviews people said he would tease the audience and prompt them
to fill in the next part of the sentence.  This time, his voice gradually
decreased to a whisper from "Playing little games, like not looking at it for
a whole day and then looking at it to see if I still liked it."  Almost
immediately after his voice got to the point of barely being audible, he
shrieked, "I DID!" and the band responded.  That was kind of fun!

Some general comments: Musically I found this show superior to the other show
I saw this summer.  However, the band didn't seem as "into" the performance.
 It took them all (even Belew) until "Dinosaur" to really start smiling and
getting animated with their actions.  Tony and Robert also seemed to be
having a few minor equipment problems during the show (Tony stepped on his
own cord a couple times).  The mix was also fairly muddy until about halfway
through the show.  Robert was *way* too far in the background.  In "Red" when
he starts hitting that phased guitar sound all by himself, the volume change
between that and the preceding part was far too much.

But good news: I could hear Trey!  I really tried to pay attention to what he
was doing, and all of a sudden, it clicked.  A lot of the parts were doubles
of some kind, but I picked them out.  I hadn't been able to do that before.
 He did quite a job on "People" especially.

Adrian didn't talk to the crowd much, only thanking us for coming out in this
"foul weather."  But we did see quite a beaming smile from Robert when they
took their bows before the encore.  Belew put his arm around him and said
something which must have struck His Frippness as amusing, so it was nice to
see that kind of emotion come from such a normally stoic individual.

On the whole, it was well worth the eight-hour round trip we made from
Maryland up there.  One of the guys I was with said facetiously, "Well, I
guess we'll be getting together and doing this again around 2006."  Good
Lord, let's hope not.

-MDA

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 19:50:17 -0500
From: Nel3 at aol dot com
Subject: Bowie/guitarists/Bruce Cockburn
RE: "Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:31:33 -0500
Subject: First Inaugural Address at IACE.....
As for Bowie's guitarists over the years, I would think Mick Ronson and Earl
Slick better than
mediocre (even great, in Rock circles), and Carlos Alomar actually quite a
good rhythm guitarist.
As for the best guitarists on the planet, some of them are: Allan Holdsworth,
John McGluaghlin
(is that how you spell it?), Julian Breame, and Fripp (it is probably too
early to tell, but Stanley
Jordan may end up on this list as well). Not in this category, but one of my
favorites, is Bruce
Cockburn (listen to "Water into Wine" on In the Falling Dark, or the whole
album of Big
Circumstance, particularly "Tibetan Side of Town").  -Emory"

While I admit that Bowie's guitarist over the years have been of a
consistently good quality, none
of them would make my top 25 (save Stevie Ray).  Now, I WOULD put Alan
Holdsworth and John
McLaughlin in that top 25 list along with Hendrix, Beck, Zappa, Duane Allman,
Santana, Pat
Metheny, John Scofield, Richard Thompson, David Torn, Neil Young, , Belew and
Fripp, Ralph
Towner, Kazumi Watanabe (on the strength of two albums with Jeff Berlin and
Bruford), Mitch
Easter, Bob Mould AND Bruce Cockburn

Old but still good at times - Al Dimeola, Steve Howe, David Gilmour, Pete
Townshend, Jimmy
Page and Clapton.  As for young turks, I'd point to Mark Whitfield and Wayne
Krantz - both jazz
players.

You might note that technical facility doesn't necessarily drive the
inclusion of all players on my
list.  But I think in general most of them have created an enduring body of
work that defines
rather than is defined by the groups that they have been with or the songs
that they have played.

Last point, especially for you, Emory - It is a joy to hear someone
understand the strength of
guitarist and songwriter Bruce Cockburn.  You picked two excellent examples
of guitar playing,
one of which (Tibetan...) showcases his amazing wordsmithing ("Prayer flags
crack like whips in
the breeze...").  I would point to "Hoop Dancer" from the album The Trouble
with Normal and
"Dialogue with the Devil" from Sunwheel Dance and live on Circles in the
Stream as two more
examples of superb acoustic or electric playing along with the unparalleled
song construction and
lyrics.  Not to digress completely (I realize ET is a specialized newsletter,
but, folks, there IS life
after Fripp) but I would put Cockburn's lyrics up against anyone in at least
20 of his songs -
anyone.

Since I'm all over the board anyway, anyone who saw my review of the 11/9
Orlando  KC concert
may think I need to get a life after Fripp, especially after I mention that I
could not listen to ANY
music for 2 days because it was all playing in my head....   :-)

"Whole sight or all is lost"  - John Fowles
"Planet engines pulsate in sideral time; if you listen close you can hear the
whine..." - Bruce
Cockburn
"I have come to wound the autumnal city" - Samuel Delany
"You've got to kick at the darkness 'till it bleeds daylight" - Bruce
Cockburn

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 17:36:06 -0700
From: brady at rainier dot darwin dot com (William Brady)
Subject: live Red
Dear Crimson fans,

Yes, I also heard Red live in Seattle in the now defunct Music Box Theatre
during the Discipline tour. As a matter of fact, KC opened with RED and
knocked the socks off everyone. If he's listening, I'd like to say Hi to the
guy I GAVE my extra ticket to ( a friend had bailed out on me ). This guy,
ticket in hand, called me a fucking idiot, but I couldn't take money from
someone who seemed so desperate to see KC. Twas truly a great show.

On another topic, I had the honor of attending an invitation-only demonstration
of Frippertronics in Seattle in 1979. There were only about 40-50 people there
and it was a facinating experience. My point is that Fripp was very polite,
witty, respectful and appreciative of the audiences enthusiasm and interest.
He fielded questions for well over an hour after the demonstration and was
very candid. This experience was completely opposite of the experiences
described lately in ET in which Fripp is portrayed as an anti-social
hermit.
Has anyone else had pleasant interactions with RF?

Last thing. Just bought B'BOOM. Awesome. I've been listening to KC since
1970 and attending their shows since 1973 and they never fail to inspire
me. Thanks for the good times. Toby, thanks for adding me to the list.

Bill
brady at darwin dot com

From: d dot zemel at genie dot com
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 95 03:33:00 UTC 0000
Subject: Adrian Does Lennon
I taped King Crimson on Conan O'Brien's show and made my wife watch it.
(She had gone with me to see Adrian's Inner Revolution show but found it too
loud!)  No sooner did Adrian start singing than she exclaimed how much he
sounded like John Lennon!  And people wonder, if the "Beatles" would tour
following the TV show and Anthology release, who could fill in for John....

(Then again, Adrian's just fine where he is right now too!)

Dean

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 23:02:47 EDT
From: boganp at alpha dot montclair dot edu
Subject: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239
Some thoughts at random:
What, after all, DO you say to a musician, even if that person's music has
changed your life, that they haven't heard a dozen times before?  Probably one
moment that'll stand out in my mind forever, actually, was the first time I
met Adrian.  It was at the end of September, 1989, during the Mr. Music Head
tour at a dinner theater in Jersey called Club Bene.  For reasons known only
to management, the tables and chairs had been removed from in front of the
stage, so as soon as the lights went down a bunch of us rushed to get seats
close to the stage.  I made eye contact with him a few times during the
concert, and he was even posing for my mother (who snapped a whole roll of
photos with a zoom lens that's visible at some distance) at a few points
during the show.

So anyway.  We wait around, and Adrian comes out after a while.  I was
hanging toward the back of the line, wondering what I'd say to him when
I got to him.  He spots me, smiles a huge smile, and says "I noticed you
knew all the words to everything."  I don't remember any of the rest of
the twenty-odd minute conversation we had, and I know damn well he wouldn't
remember talking to some seventeen-year-old kid, but I do know that his
attitude and accessibility gave me a lot of respect for him.

As for the thread on lyricists:  Each of us has our favorites, but consider
this:  Fripp has always maintained that when music comes along that only
Crimson can play, Crimson appears to play it (I'm paraphrasing); similarly,
the lyricists involved have been those best suited to their times and the
music/character of KC at that time.  Peter Sinfield's quasi-mythical epics
would sound out-of-place over the disjointed music of the 80's/90's lineup,
Adrian's postmodern lyrical noodlings wouldn't fit the fluid geometry of
"Book of Saturdays", and Palmer-James' stuff would've been far too earthy for,
say, "Moonchild".  My two cents' worth: My favorite lyricist is AB, but my
favorite lyrics are from "The Night Watch"...

Where is "Guitar as Orchestra"?  I've yet to see it in stores...

Thank you for listening.

Paul

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 23:06:41 -0500
From: John Upwood <jhu at gti dot net>
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #239
To Mr. Randall Powell:

Just kidding.  I'll spare everyone the agony of another post on the subject.
I'm just saying hello.  I'm going to see KC in a few days, and I thank
everyone for the show tips.  Some great reviews out there--I'm psyched for
the show.  And I'm now well-versed in KC fan etiquitte--I won't try to shake
anyone's hand lest I send them into hysterics.  Come to think about it, by
the end of the show if anyone tries to shake my hand I'll probably be thrown
into hysterics myself.
John Upwood
<jhu at gti dot net>
_______________________________________________________________
The opinions expressed in this message are exclusively those of
my employer and bear no relation, direct or indirect, to my own
personal sentiments.  If you have a problem with anything I've
written, please contact my employer at:

<boballen at att dot com>
_______________________________________________________________

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 23:36:47 EST
From: CTYM80A at prodigy dot com ( BRIAN K PRESTON)
Subject: Crimson with the Upside Down Man
Hello all fellow Crim heads.

I thought it quite cool to see the guys on TV!  Sort of took me a few
minutes to adjust after seeing them in Frisco for 3 nights last
summer.  And Robert was so EXPOSED!  In the harsh lights under full
view (I'm sure he loved that!)

Now the arrangement of Dinosaur was snappy, wasnt it?  If I remember,
they took out the gtr synth middle section and went right into
Fripp's solo (which was a bit milder than I had seen) and then seemed
to clip it a bit at the end, wouldnt you say?  Conan seemed to be
pretty into it and there were certainly some Crim heads in the
audience.
 And, did you notice Fripp when Conan went to shake their hands...
Robert sort of cringed abit.  And what was that, a sweater from
StarTrek.Next Generation Fripp was wearing? I sort of liked the white
shirt and vest myself.

Has most everyone seen the Crimson reviews and articles in
Progression magazine? Just came out last week.  Pretty good. Ian
McDonald writes a piece and they review all the guys new stuff,
including Tony's World Diary.  Plus a band retrospective.  (They even
put my band's ad on the same page with the Crimson reviews!
Freehand)

Still mourning the fact that the guys cruised straight through North
Carolina (after Atlanta) and didnt stop ..and I had built it up to
the local Crimheads!  Maybe we'll eventually get them to stop around
here.

Until next time...B K P

P.S. If anyone doesnt get Progression and wants contact info, e me
and I'll send it.

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 00:34:31 -0500 (EST)
From: JPM17 at JAGUAR dot UOFS dot EDU
Subject: KC management, Belew solo, House of Blues on TV?
I live near Wilkes-Barre, PA whre KC played Wednesday.  I had read that
most of the band was decent as far as talking to fans and such.  So, I
tried to get a quick 15-20min interview for our college radio station.
First I tried going through our local promoter, but they never got back
to me with any info.  Next, I called Catalyst out in California.  I spoke
to a woman named Veronica.  I faxed them my request with all my specifics.
I even left messages on answering machines.  Everytime I spoke to this
woman, I got the old, "I'll call you Wednesday" "I'll call you Friday"
"I'll call you Monday", blah, blah, blah.  I was legitimate with our radio
station.  I once interviewed a Nobel Peace Prize winner.  If they didn't
want to grant me an interview, I would have understood.  I know this is an
exhausting leg of the tour for them.  Yet, they never called me back.  I
was really disappointed with them on this.  A simple NO the first time
would have done the job, instead they gave me the runaround, ignoring me
to the end.
Has anyone esle dealt with them?  Did I just get a bum deal, or are they
notorious for doing this?  I hate to pass judgement on them if I'm just
an exception.  Should I have gone through the record company instead?

Before the Wilkes-Barre, PA show, they were playing Belew's latest solo
album, Guitar as Orchestra over the pa system.  I really enjoyed it and
was wondering, Is this out yet?  Does anyone have it or the cat. number?
If anyone has it, a brief assessment would be interesting.

Does anyone know if/when the House of Blues show will be broacast on TV?
I've never figured out when this program airs as I have only caught it
once or twice flipping channels.  Those who were at the show reported alot
of camera work being done, so this wouyld lead me to believe it will air
at some date.

Thanks in advance,
Joe Mel

From: stehelin at citi2 dot fr (Dominique Stehelin)
Subject: BB interview
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 10:07:56 +0100 (MET)
this is the translation of an interview of B.Brufford published in a french
magazine for drummers in April or May 95. I re read it yesterday, and
finally thought you could use it. If anyone already did this translation,
stop me, tellme and don't hesitate to edit the thing. Of course, for reason
of length, and despite you know me for my endless messages, IUm going to do
it in several times.

Bill Brufford Interview part 1

Q: How would you define this new K.C. ?  B.B: It happens to be the most
intelligent rock'n roll of the moment. The musicians involved not only know
rock, but jazz and "avant garde".Those musicians have so many sesions, so
many albums behind, that everything is easy.  And the public is not obliged
to like us. If he likes, that's great, but if not, it's great anyway. It's
not a fascist organisation. K.C. is an ominous group of guitars, and there
is no equivalent today. It's very heavy too. Bands of the like of
Cinderella or Van Halen think they are heavy, but when it comes to
heavyness or density, you have to see a K.C. show. It's wild too, that
because the musicians know dissonance and that playing calmly can sometime
be a thousand time more threatening than an average teen ager band pushing
their amps to 11.  Intensity and power are really things the band
masters. Looking for unexpected if I may say so is one of our
speciality. Something may be coming or not, whatever, you'll stay stuck to
your chair.

Q: After those 11 years of silence that followed the trilogy Discipline, Beat
and ToaPP, how did you come to the realisation of the record?
B.B.: Each time we meet again, it's whole new band In 80-84 formula, we were a
lot into new technologies, like electronic drumming, synth guitars and ChapmannStick. Ethinc music was fashionable, third world and african voice polyphony,
just started to be discovered, Crimson was a lot into that. This time it's not
about getting back to those times, but 20 years before to the harder K.C. It has
become bigger, wider, fater, and because we are six, it's realy dense and thick.

Q: With Fripp as a leader and five strong characters, how do you care for each
one's ideas, and make an coherent album?
B.B.: Robert is a chief of orchestra, but not always the chief composer. He
write some things from beginning to end on the guitar, the music then flows
during reharsals. The art of using 6 musicians in a little room consist in
knowing what to do and when, and to what you have to hang. Not too much talking,
but playing. Too much talking leads to nothing. Robert kows prefectly how to
draw the scheme he has in his head. He had decided to live the music of this
80/84 era. That was all right for me. As long as someone as  clear vision,
things can open up.
Q: Hearing thrak, it seems that you are less using electronics than previously.And now you have Pat Mastelloto.
B.B.: We both use electronics. I have a simmons SDX wich a computerised system
the assign samples to pads. It's an extraordinary engine, since you interfere
with the velocity of samples, and the triggering zone on the pad. Where you hitis as important as how you hit. What is funny is not knowing how it's going to
respond.
This album is very different from the previous K.C. Robert likes to have a goodrythm frame he can rely on. My relationship with rythm is more abstract. I
consider one must know where lies the beat, and I play something in paralell,
that can sometime get on your nerves I must admit. Pat is now the missing link
between Robert and me. He is the metronome that makes Robert happy. So I can
give more because we all know where the beat is.
Q: considering that Pat is the guardian of the tempo, your play on thrak is morlike adding all this shifted rythms?
B.B.: Most of the time, yes. On most of the cuts, You hear a big beat quite
obvious, often in 2/4, it's Pat. I come in, disturbing the whole thing, or ply
the same thing, earlier or later, that gives a rythm ambiguity. That create
tihgtness and loosening.

From: bullj1 at westatpo dot westat dot com
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 09:38:20 EDT
Subject: KC on Conan
    Whoever alerted us to KC's appearance on Conan O'Brien, you're a god.
    Joan Bull     bullj1 at westat dot com

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 06:19:16 -0500
From: DanKirkd at aol dot com
Subject: Perspectives
Greetings fellow ETers!

I'm on vacation in Athens, Greece, yet the wonders of cyberspace and a laptop
have allowed me to stay in touch with ET, and I have a few comments to make
about various posts in ET #239.

But first I'd like to say that I think we should all take a moment to really
appreciate the moment in time we are experiencing.  When KC broke up in 1984
few people thought they'd be back again in 1995, yet as much as I don't wish
to dwell on the idea, there will come a time in the future when KC will break
up again, yet this time I just can see them coming together again after that
happens.  Indications are that's not going to happen quite yet, but we all
know it will.  Thing is at their age, I can't imagine the boys thrakking it
up when they're sexagenarians.  Its possible, but is it likely?  The funny
thing is that Fripp for one looks like he could play when he's 80 given his
energy conserving style.  Anyway the point is ET is in its prime today in
large part because it came into being about the same time KC in the 90's
started to become a reality, and today we are all sharing in the KC
experience.  What will happen when this band breaks up?  Will ET still have
that great feel?  These are silly thoughts by a man who's had far too little
sleep lately, but they make me appreciate what we've got all that much more,
because its not going to last forever.

Anyway, I do want to chime in on a few things that have been said.

On the Fripp personality issue: it is a injustice to characterize someone
based on hearsay, random encounters, or other stories.  But what bothers me
the most are the conclusions that Fripp is a bad person.  Few of us know him
well enough to know that, and his actions just don't deserve that conclusion.
 He's just different - but that's never stopped people who are different
(good or bad) from being condemned in the past, so I guess things never
change.

On the "substances" thread: can this newsletter draw a line and raise above
such discussions?  I find it poor taste to discuss such things in this forum.

To David Charlap: when Trey Gunn writes "HE'LL NEVER WORK IN THE MUSIC
BUSINESS AGAIN." can't you see the tongue in cheek sarcasm?  No one is
claiming to have the power to crush people's careers like they were no more
than mere ants.  Come on, these guys are confirmed anti music business
establishment people.  Trey's just making fun of the cliché.  I have to
wonder sometimes if some people are just looking for any excuse to knock
these guys.  I challenge them to come forth with some positive energy in
their next posts.

Finally, for those who use the indexes, please bare with me.  ET digests are
coming out at such a pace these days, that while I'm on vacation the indexes
are falling significantly behind.  It may take me until year's end to catch
up.  Sorry.

Dan

--
Daniel A. Kirkdorffer          | "Though the course may change sometimes
Email: e#kirkd at ccmail dot ceco dot com | rivers always reach the sea." Robert Plant
       DanKirkd at aol dot com        +-------------------------------------------
WWW: http://users.aol.com/dankirkd/danhome.html

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 00:18:48 -0500 (EST)
From: JPM17 at JAGUAR dot UOFS dot EDU
Subject: KC in Wilkes-Barre, PA
Being that this is my hometown, there was no way I was going to miss
this show.  The Kirby Center was a quaint venue for such a show.  Yet,
I was a little disappointed with the sound we got.  I'm no music expert,
but there seemed to be alot of echo/reverb/feedback? which drowned out
much of the percussion I thought.

The Kirby Center seats only 1800, but one of the ushers told me they sold
only about 900.  Before the show, there was only one guy standing in front
of the stage and he was off to the side not paying attention.  This allowed
us to go right up to the stage and look around.  That is the closest I will
ever come to such a big time band's setup.  I think their setup has been
posted before, but I must say that I was amazed at all the technology.  Trey
must have had a dozen pedals at his feet.

I asked the guy selling t-shirts about the shirt with the family tree on it,
and he said they stopped selling them a few shows ago.  He didn't know why
b/c he said they represented almost 40% of the t-shirt sales.
I asked the guy who tuned their guitars how the tour was going.  He said that
the crew is exhausted.  After our show was over about 11:00pm, they packed
everything up and had to drive to Rochester, NY that night (at least 5 hours
away).  I also asked about the improvs they've been playing and he said they
are basically the  same every night except maybe for Bill's solos.

At the start of the show, the band seemed tired to me.  Adrian seemed to
loosen up quickly and by the end, Tony and Bill were smiling also.
Red was the highlight for me.  I also loved THRAK!  I hadn't seen anyone
describe the little twist they put on it.  It really slowed down to a quiet
when the four string players started using different sounds.  Tony played
cello, Adrian seemed to be playing midi piano and then violin.  Trey was
doing guitar effects and also some other midi string work I think. Robert
may have been doing some sort of soundscape.  After about two minutes of
this, Bill seemed to think it had gone on long enough and he started some
percussion and gave Pat the eye.  The two then began their own little jam
on top of the group.  Is this on B'BOOM album?

After the show, the CGT did some great business.  They were extremely
friendly selling their album out front in the lobby.  I'd say they sold
at least 30-40 CD's.
Unfortunately, the boys of KC disappeared after the show.  A group of about
20 of us stood outside the back door for about 45 minutes in 30 degree winds
until finally the cops who were keeping an eye on us went inside and we found
out that the guys had slipped out an even more inconspicuous door into an
unmarked van.  This really disappointed me.  All I asked for at this point
was an autograph, no in-depth conversations or anything.  Oh, well.

If anyone has a setlist for the Wilkes-Barre show, could you please send it
to me at JPM17 at jaguar dot uofs dot edu

Thanks,
Joe Mel

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:27:11 -0400
From: Mitch dot Goldman at turner dot com
Subject: king crimson reevuu...
     Toby...below is a review of the Atlanta shows that I wrote for
     ENTERZONE, a webzine I do reviews for...feel free to use it in Elephant
     talk if you'd like...

     Mitch

     ______________________________________________________________________
     KING CRIMSON--ROXY THEATRE, ATLANTA, GA  11/11 & 12/95

     Robert Fripp's newest version of his progressive rock outfit King
     Crimson is now over a year old; after producing three records (the ep
     VROOOM; the lp THRAK; and the 2 cd live set B'BOOM) and touring for
     the better part of 1995, this version of Crimson is really hitting
     some major peaks as a performing band.

     '95 Crimson is pretty much the '81-84 version (Fripp, Adrian Belew on
     guitar/vocals, Tony Levin on bass/stick, and Bill Bruford on
     drums/percusssion) plus two new members (Pat Mastellato,
     drums/percussion, and Trey Gunn, stick).  Fripp views this
     configuration as a "double trio" but it's to KC's credit that this band
     functions more as a fully integrated six piece than the more standard
     jazz "double trio".  Fripp and co. proved that there's plenty of life
     in this beast with their recent recorded output and live shows; THRAK
     is one of the year's best albums, filled with nasty-sounding guitar
     instrumentals and thoughtful, well-written vocal tracks from Belew.
     THRAK actually compares favorably to RED, the final John Wetton-era
     Crimson lp, released in 74, and considered to be a high-water mark in
     70's prog-rock.

     The Town Hall show in New York back in June showed the new KC to be in
     fine form, tearing through mostly new material from THRAK, with some
     80's and 70's-eras tunes thrown in for balance.  But five months later,
     Crimson sounds even more reflex with their new configuration; their two
     shows at the Roxy in Atlanta found the six members smiling, laughing,
     interacting as musicians and performers in the manner of a band that's
     been touring for seven years, not seven months.  The meshing of
     instruments is smoother and more seamless than it was during the summer
     tour; clearly, this six-piece is more comfortable with themselves, each
     other, and the material than they were on the first leg of the THRAK
     tour.  And it showed, in two amazingly tight-yet-open-ended shows in
     Atlanta.

     The two Roxy shows were very similar in material; in fact, the Sunday
     show contained all of the songs of the Saturday show, with a couple
     extra thrown in.  But since the song sequence changes each night, and
     since there are a couple of stunning improv segments, it's a show worth
     going back to see again and again.  Opening with a brief drum duet from
     Bill and Pat, KC hit full throttle on the next piece, "Thela Hun
     Ginjeet" (from their '81 lp DISCIPLINE, the first KC album since RED in
     '74).  "Thela", like much of the '80's Crimson material, has an African
     rhythm set to a post-punk guitar riff (KC's Belew material has much in
     common with middle period Talking Heads, due in no small part to Belew's
     participation on the Heads'seminal REMAIN IN LIGHT); this world-beat
     kind of approach has largely been abandoned on the THRAK material, so
     it's nice to hear these songs played live.  Belew, at both shows, was
     his usual virtuoso-self, bending strings, slamming the neck of his
     Dayglo orange Strat with his fists, even taking a power drill to his
     strings during the improv section of "THRAK" on Sunday.  Fripp, in stark
     contrast, sat on his usual stool at the back of the stage, between the
     drummers, rarely moving, but frequently letting loose with his patented,
     saturated Les Paul outbursts; his solo on "Three of A Perfect Pair" is a
     highlight, featuring the kind of sound only Robert Fripp can get from an
     electric guitar.  Both Levin and Gunn added lower and higher register
     parts to the songs, each with their own style: Levin is percussive and
     muscular on the stick, while Gunn is graceful; Sunday night, from the
     sixth row, his hand movements looked like the studied movements of a
     ballet dancer.  And Mastellato and Bruford are the epitome of a great
     drum duo...while one pounds out rhythm, the other adds color, and the
     sheer joy they get from transposing their respective roles from song to
     song is amazing to witness.  Bruford in particular is probably, from a
     technical standpoint, the finest drummer I've ever seen live, working in
     a precise, dynamic manner without ever sounding stale or less than fully
     committed.  It's worth the price of a ticket just to watch this
     percussive master at work.

     And both shows were *filled* with joyous highlights...the encores included
     a brief drum session with Pat, Bill and Adrian all participating, smiling
     like kids at each other's drum parts (the joy these men get from playing
     with each other epitomizes what's great about live music); the wild improv
     segment each night during "THRAK" which ended with a totally still,
     totally silent band (a positively breathless moment) before swinging back
     into the main "THRAK" riff; Fripp's improved "Soundscape" each night,
     during which Robert made spacy, synthesized sounds through his Les Paul
     (and his battery of pedals!); the stick improv piece that preceded a
     set-closing "Indiscipline"; Bruford's beautiful percussion color during
     the quiet, fragile "One Time"; Belew's ability to get animal noises from
     his Strat during "Elephant Talk"; and Sunday night's finale, "The Talking
     Drum" and "Lark's Tongue in Aspic Part 2".  Not played on Saturday
     (despite being yelled as requests from the audience), "Lark's Tongue" is
     the perfect climax to a Crimson show...a dark, nasty instrumental that
     intersperses quiet, reflective passages next to the snarling guitar work
     of Fripp and Belew.  Hearing this song reproduced so brilliantly made me
     feel like a kid again, discovering the wonder of Crimson in the mid-70's,
     wondering why I had never before heard music that sounded so, well,
     different.  When six guys, whose ages range from late twenties to fifty,
     can make a 34 year old feel 14 again, you know the music has achieved its
     real purpose...like all great music, it takes you away from your current
     place and identity, and transports you, emotionally somewhere new.

     One of the things that strikes me as a nice feature of Crimson is their
     impermanence; you know that, like previous KC incarnations, this one will
     probably only last a few years, for a few records, for a handful of tours.
      But rather than depressing me, this idea adds to the appeal of Crimson.
     Unlike other bands who NEVER seem to go away, who decline in quality,
     Crimson shows up every so often to take us to a whole new place.  They
     don't pick up where they left off; rather, they pick up as if THEY'VE
     NEVER LEFT.  And they drag us, sometimes kicking and screaming (with
     delight!) to a new, unseen, unfelt musical place inside ourselves...and
     ultimately, they leave us there, saying "you're on your own...see you in
     seven or eight years!".  And this is the true beauty of King Crimson: they
     take us on a voyage from which we're expected to return, or continue, on
     our own.  Those of us who've been moved by this band will always carry the
     memory of this musical voyage; and when this version of Crimson ceases to
     be, as is inevitable, it's up to each of us to keep the music alive, in
     our heads, in our hearts, in our cd players, in our lives.  The goal of
     Fripp and his cohorts is no less than to elevate our lives through
     fleeting moments of great music, through the sheer joy of playing and
     listening; and in their absence, we remember, like a dream glimpsed only
     vaguely in our memories, what this music and these experiences have meant
     to us.  Like anything of true beauty and power, King Crimson can't be
     held; they can only be experienced and felt.  But for those of us who've
     been moved by them, that's more than enough.

     Setlists...

     11/1195 (8:53-10:44):

     Drum Duet
     Thela Hun Ginjeet
     Neurotica
     Red
     Three of a Perfect Pair
     Dinosaur
     VROOOM VROOOM
     Frame By Frame
     Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream
     One Time
     Soundscape->
     B'Boom->
     THRAK
     People
     Improv--Two Sticks->
     Indiscipline

     Encores:

     Elephant Talk
     Walking On Air

     Drum Trio
     VROOOM->
     Coda: Marine 475

     11/12/95 (8:48-10:48):

     Drum Duet
     Thela Hun Ginjeet
     Three of a Perfect Pair
     VROOOM VROOOM
     Frame By Frame
     Dinosaur
     Red
     Neurotica
     People
     Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream
     VROOOM->
     Coda: Marine 475
     One Time
     Soundscape->
     B'Boom->
     THRAK
     Improv--Two Sticks->
     Indiscipline

     Encores:

     Drum Trio
     Elephant Talk
     Walking On Air

     The Talking Drum->
     Lark's Tongue in Aspic, Part Two
     ____________________________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:49:34 -0500
From: gjohnson at drystone dot attmail dot com (gjohnson)
Subject: Tix for sale:
Tix for Sale:  Longacre, NYC on Monday November 20.
		5 Tickets available - 15th Row center.
                call: John Urich  (609) 844-0074  Lawrenceville,N.J.

Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 00:45:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Richard M. Rose" <rmrose at phantom dot com>
Subject: tix--Longacre--11/22--make an offer...
I wrote a few weeks ago, and got no reply. So, I will try again. I have to
sell these tickets because of a personal issue that came up the day after

I purchased them. When I called Telecharge, they insisted that tickets
were only available for Monday through Wednesday 11/20-11/22. I
reluctantly bought 4 for Wed, 11/22. Row M. I have to be in Maine that
day to testify in court in a Child Jeopardy case. There is no way I can
attend.

A few weeks ago, tickets for Friday and Saturday went on sale. I would be
willing to work out a trade, sell these tickets at a discount, or listen
to any offer. I hate to see the money I spent on these tickets go to
waste, and 4 empty seats go unused. I am having trouble getting into
Usenet, so I cannot post. This is my only way of advertising my plight,
=FCand time is running out. My server is very flaky these days, so I will
even give my telephone #'s. Please feel free to call, and I am sure we
can work something out. (Could be a good deal for you!!)

e-mail: rmrose at phantom dot com  OR  roserm at aol dot com
Telephone: home: 718-599-5989  work: 212-599-5989x553
Feel free to leave messages!

Thanks!
Richard M. Rose.


Mike Stok