From elephant-talk at arastar dot comSun Nov 12 14:18:52 1995 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 09:47:13 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #236 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 236, Saturday, 11 November 1995 Today's Topics: KC on U.S. TV Any Caifanes Ca-Fans out there? USA on CD Fripp-Off Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #235 Stravinsky & Moricone Re: Warr-guitar St.Petersburg ,Florida Review of 11\8 in St. Pete, FL A. Belew Interview Continued Re: Lark's Tongues -- Othello Review: RE: Elephant-talk digest v95 #235 David Sylvian: Nov 4 London Fripp & Fender Re: Genesis electric violin KC tourdates Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #235 alan's idea re: this is a happy place born again with LTIA Re: Logo possibilities Mellotron/synthetics debate (RESEND) The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp 1999 Q&A? 1st Live RED performance Winter Tour Cancelled HELP!! You Burn me Up! David Sylvian in Toronto KC logo What Gunn's playing (fwd) athens ga plea Larks Tongues/Boz'n'Mel Annie on the wrong night KC's instruments used during Japan Tour Half speed masters, McDonald and MacDonald Acoustic vs Synthesized music. More Melodic Mutations Missing Gig Reviews of Denver 10/28 show What hit Fripp? Fripp & Bowie info REVIEWS Review: Nov 8, St Pete Review of 11\8 in St. Pete, FL Review: South Florida Concert Review: St.Petersburg ,Florida TIX 1 ticket to sell for Chicago TIX - Any Hockey Fans Out There???? KC ticket for sale, NYC 11/22 Another plea for Detroit tix Great Tix for NYC Extra Longacre Ticket (Nov. 22) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 15:25:30 -0700 (MST) From: mike balistreri Subject: KC on U.S. TV Greetings fellow Crimnerds, Just a reminder that our favorite band is scheduled to be on the Conan O'Brien show (U.S.) next Tuesday, 14 November. I think this show comes on fairly late at night but it will most likely be worth it to find a good television and check this out. O.K.? -m.b. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Any Caifanes Ca-Fans out there? Date: Wed, 8 Nov 95 20:55:46 EST Does anyone on this list have a decent amount of knowledge about Los Caifanes -- the Mexican pop band Belew produces and performs with occasionally? If you're one of those people, please drop me a line when you get a chance. Thanks, ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Anil Prasad aprasad at ccs dot carleton dot ca ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Visit the INNERVIEWS website featuring in-depth interviews with some of the world's most interesting and innovative musicians! http://www.carleton.ca/~aprasad ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:01:51 -0500 From: "Jon T. Davis" Subject: USA on CD Throughout the years I've seen most (if not all) of the KC catalog available on CD. The one omission is USA. Has anyone out there seen it available on CD? If so, where can I get it? Looking forward to the 11/27 show!! JD [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 23:29:34 -0600 From: rpowell at mailhost dot tcs dot tulane dot edu (Randall Powell) Subject: Fripp-Off Having waited more than 20 years for my first opportunity to see King Crimson live, I was quite excited to see Fripp at the back of the House of Blues here in New Orleans. He was standing near the mixing console, drinking a cup of coffee. I politely said "Excuse me," intending to briefly tell him how much I had enjoyed Crimson over the years. Without giving me the courtesy of acknowledgment that any decent human being would exhibit, he raised his hand as if to shield his ears and face from contact with a commoner who had paid more than $100 for two shows. He then proceeded to raise his coffee cup between his two pudgy little hands with a melodramatic gesture reminiscent of taking communion, then turned with an equally affected manner to float away as if he were some god walking in our midst. I have never been so disgusted and disappointed in my life. In less than thirty seconds he managed to ruin for me all appreciation for his music. With apprehension I awaited the beginning of the show, thinking this was going to be an anticlimax of epic proportions. Fortunately, my fears were ill-founded, as it took about thirty seconds to realize that Robert Dripp has been rendered irrelevant by Adrian Belew. In fact, Fripp-Off has become a sideman in what was his own band. You may think I offer this opinion because of his inexcusably rude and arrogant behavior. In truth, I cannot totally separate my reaction from my evaluation of the performance, but I think it's more than fair to say that Adrian is behind the bulk of Thrak. I expect the shitty behavior exemplified by Fripp from poseurs such as McDonna or the Guns'n'Roses level cretins, but I suppose I didn't realize that he felt he was such a "star". So go ahead and buy all the recycled box sets and masturbatory noodlings masquerading as soundscapes, but buy Adrian's albums and those of the other wonderful musicians in the band if you have an aversion to being taken for granted. I, for one, shall never put another penny into his coffers by buying anything with his name on it. Perhaps he can reunite with the equally pompous and pretentious Eno. I would suggest "The Unending Circle Jerk of Onanism" as the title for their opus. After all, just play one tone into a tape loop and declare it a work of minimalist art. Apparently, there are a number of naive fools who will buy anything this shameless fraud will foist upon them. I know this quite well; I once was among their number. By the way, the other members of the band circulated throughout the venue and were quite friendly and approachable. Pat Mastelotto, in particular, is a most congenial and impressive individual. I spoke with him before the second show the following night. What a treat it was to watch Bruford and him playing off each other. And Levin was his usual brilliant self. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:31:53 -0500 From: Christopher John Cole Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #235 Hello out there, I have a few things to say so please bear with me. First o fall, I totally agree with the person who wrote concerning an album dedicated to just one song, specifically Thrak and B'Boom live. When I first heard the album Thrak the song Thrak was by far my least favorite song, but after seeing them live I am totally in love with this song. I managed to get a friend of mine to tape B'Boom for me and the live versions of Thrak on that are wonderful. In the time span of the song I flip between laughter to dead sad silence to a feeling of not being alone. Wonderful stuff this Thrak live stuff is.. I especially love picking out all of the different sounds and characters of the song, from the phones wringing, the people screaming, the dogs barking and the pure chaos. Great stuff. So, I think an album of just live Thrak would be great, and B'Boom also, especially if there is the Fripp soundscape beforehand. As for soundscapes, well I think they are wonderful as well. If there is any particular musical style which seems to consistently bring in an essence or feeling of a spirit of the music and of Being itself it is the soundscapes music. Especially the song Hope, such a beautiful song and you can hear the four musicians trying so hard to bring forth this spirit of hope, yet not push the song such that the essence leaves and yet not be so light as to poduce nothing. As for listening to soundscapes, I find I have to be alone at night i sort of a relaxed mood and upon attentive and creative listening the emotions and understandings begin to flow.. As for Audiences at live KC shows, well there seems to be a breakup within the crowd which goes something along the lines of 80% who just plain don't get it and and want to hear 21st century schizoid man and then the other 20% who totally understand, feel and genuinely NEED this music. Alas it is the twenty percent of us who are too damn quiet to tell the guys next to us to shut up. I remember seeing KC in Cleveland and having to hear the entire drug experiences for each song from these two losers in front of me, throughout the entire show. I never really wanted to know that the guy in front of me always got great visuals off of hearing Red. Oh well, people... Last but not least, a while back someone suggested that Sylvian would be a better frontman for KC and I have to agree with him. Though Belew is just plain an incredible guitarist I think Sylvian would be so much more into the essence of the music than Belew, and lord knows we would have better and more meaning filled lyrics. But then again, Belew plays a mean guitar.. Okay, that is enough. Take care to all. -- Chris "There's a fire in my head and i'm blinded by all i can't see. Dancing to nowhere and i'm loosing my head among thieves. And the man at the bar looked like all he needed was gone." [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:37:16 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Stravinsky & Moricone Someone mentioned a few issues back that LTiA2 quotes from Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. Is this actually the case? If so, where in LTiA2 does this take place and where in the Rite of Spring is it taken from? (grammar sucks, I know) I have heard the CGT play three times now (twice with Fripp's California Soundscapes tour at the House of Blues -- stayed for both shows, addled my brain that much more, then with KC at the Wiltern in LA), and each time they've played the theme song to "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly". A few days ago I saw Sergio Leone's film _Once Upon a Time in the West_ and was amazed by the sound and the music. Found out that this was Ennio Moricone, who worked in close collaboration with Leone (often helping with the script and shooting and so on), who also composed the music for The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. The amazing nature of the song that the CGT plays takes on a greater resonance. I would love to hear them play one of the themes from _Once Upon a Time_. But, after all, I'm in the audience, not a member of the band. Oh, almost forgot: What in Beelzebub's name is up with that four second song on _Exposure_ (track 13, "First Inaugural Address to I.A.C.E. Sherborne House"). Best I can figure is that Fripp figure out a central "theme" for this album -- he samples peoples' words and conversations unbeknownst to them (viz. Thela Hun Ginjeet) and incorporates them into the songs on this album. Hence this song seems like such a sample, simply without any music. But why is it there? It bugs me -- I just can't help it. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 00:56:51 -0500 From: MatrickIV at aol dot com Subject: Re: Warr-guitar Just saw Crimson in Denver, excellent show. Noticed that Trey Gunn was playing an odd looking "Stick-Like" instrument. After reading elephant-talk I learned that this instrument was called a Warr-guitar. My question is what exactly is the Warr-guitar? My guess is that it is a Poly-carbite custom made Chapman Stick. Could someone please confirm this for me? [ Check out http://www-csli.stanford.edu/users/kyle/warrm.html - Toby ] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 17:39:50 JST Subject: A. Belew Interview Continued This is another continuation of A. Blew interview by a magazine Marquee. This completes one set of translation of the interview article. M. I did not feel that a heavy-rock-like sound tendency in the album Thrak was something of an old stuff. Because now we are in the age of digital equipments, it may be possible that we feel the rough-cut style of the album as refreshing. What do you think? AB. Yes, we wanted to be satisfying in every aspect. We didn't want it to become boring because it is perfectly digital, either. Of course, any recent band more or less uses digital equipments. You can achieve the highest quality through them. But our band has some sort of roughness and we want to keep it that way. We don't necessary want to finish up everything with perfect sound. We like sudden events. The defects in songs are also alright. Most people want to correct those defects but if you do it you might lose the character there. So what I've found in many years playing is that the first, second and third reactions are the best. Even if it's rough, you'd better leave it like that. M. Double Trio is an interesting configuration. This set-up will probably exercise its power during live stage. The full album this time does not contain songs with much improvisation recorded in Vrooom. Is there any great idea to make good use of the new set-up? AB. Surely the live performance would be more improvisation oriented. I'd like to mention something about Double Trio here. I don't think we have made full use of this set-up yet. I think there is a lot of space for the band to grow. In the end, I think two trios would play independently or play in turns and this would then be interpreted as Double Trio. At this moment, we haven't reached that point yet. This (Thrak) is our first album and everyone wants to play all the time. M. You performed in Argentine like that? AB. Yes. Mostly, all of the members played. Occasionally we did a duet or a trio. In the future, I think that those will be increased. In the songs themselves, those will be built in from the beginning. But in the latest album (Thrak) we are still at a stage trying every possibilities and ideas. That's the exciting thing about this band. There's a lot of possibilities and there's a birght future. M. But for some time will your music arrangement be fundametally the same when you are performing Vrooom and Thrak, though there will be some improvisations? AB. Although there will be improvisations, I think the songs will have a form that you will realize this song is from that album. But I think since the old days this band had created interesting results at live concerts. Mostly you could produce bigger and better sound than in the album. There is one more thing that I realized when we did in Argentine. The '80's songs which Tony, Bill, Robert and I had done sounded great when we did them with six of us. It was never so good. And it also sounded new. When you hear the songs like Frame by Frame and Elephant Talk in this new context, you feel like you heard them for the first time. M. The last question. You are going to record your solo album very soon, I heard. AB. I started already. There are two albums. One is an instrumental album with only guitar. The other one is with vocals. M. Are they going to be quite different from King Crimson's? AB. They are quite different from King Crimson's and the two albums themselves are quite different. Completely different approach is used. There are lots of new ideas. ============== Sorry for those who joined ET recently and did not have a chance to look at earlier translations. I had to cut the translation into pieces. You can find older ET issues in the ET archives. Bye, Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 01:58:31 -0700 (MST) From: sgoodman at primenet dot com (Steve Goodman) Subject: Re: Lark's Tongues -- Othello Now I could be wrong, and if I am I'll eat a bug, but was it not Lark's Tongues in Aspic that Cleopatra served to Mark Antony at their first meeting/dinner? I'm reminded of a scene from the Claudette Colbert version of the story, and how, one Friday night, I recorded the movie while listening (unintentionally coincidentally) to LTiA; the bowl of lark's tongues is given a full-screen shot. Flipping around later that night, I found by mistake the latest showing of Emmanuelle, exactly during the rape scene ("what's all this then?"). I didn't know about the use of the song until then. Did anyone else encounter this by mistake? A strange evening to say the least... S. +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | "I suppose that if we couldn't laugh at things that | don't make sense, we couldn't react to a lot of life." | | - Hobbs | +-----------------------------------------------------------+ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:08:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Beck Subject: David Sylvian: Nov 4 London Greetings to ETers, If I may take a tangential route..... with apologies to non-UK subscribers.... My attempt to obtain tix for the David Sylvian concert at the Royal Festival Hall, London on Nov 4th, was thwarted as the gig was sold out when I applied. There were no returns on the Saturday morning, so I had to miss the gig :-( I would like to read any reviews of the gig, especially the number of Sylvian/Fripp tracks played. As this was a 'solo' gig, I don't expect there to have been many - maybe 'Damage' or 'The First Day'. I finally got round to buying the live 'Damage' CD (mainly because I was feeling down at missing the gig) - superb stuff: I loved 'Damage' when I heard it live last year and wanted to buy it (without knowing the title); this track is worth the price of the CD alone IMO. If anyone can indulge me, I would be very grateful. So as not to fill up this list with marginally-relevant stuff, feel free to post me directly at 'rbeck at hgmp dot mrc dot ac dot uk' Many thanx in advance. rb London [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:32:01 +0100 From: goran dot svensson at parkmollan dot se \v (G\vran Svensson) Subject: Fripp & Fender Does anybody know if Fripp played on Strats or Teles, live or on records? Hendrix did sometimes play on Gibsons and sure made them wail, I have seen and heard it! Goran Svensson [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 13:35:52 +1130 From: tsymeo at zenon dot logos dot hol dot gr (Tefkros Symeonides) Subject: Re: Genesis In ET #235, Mike Dickson wrote: >When I was in my mid-teens I was one of those losers who liked >Genesis more than any other band in the world. All that Gabriel ponsing >about impressed me. 'Suppers Ready' was something wonderful to behold. >Phil Collins could really drum well. They played some stuff with funny time >signatures which made you feel you were listening to something cleverer >than your friends' music. After reading 'I Know What I Like' I learned that >collectively, Genesis had listened to 'In The Court of the Crimson King' >and had been floored by it, choosing to use this as a new kind of >direction. Mike, everything you state about Genesis and their music here is correct. But why call a Genesis fan a loser? IMHO Genesis were an extremely good prog-rock band throughout the early and mid 70s (from Trespass to Seconds Out). The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is my favourite prog-rock album, and I believe that only CotCK and Red are (almost) as good. It's absolutely true that KC influenced Genesis, but Genesis are still undeniably a classic prog-rock band. >I haven't played 'Trick of the Tail' since. :) That's really being unfair. Trick of the Tail is a masterpiece. I would never had gotten into progressive music (and KC, for that matter) if I hadn't listened to "Squonk". Regards, (and apologies for being rather irrelevant) Tefkros Symeonides. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 09:18:34 -0700 From: basilisk at mail dot utexas dot edu (Leon Marcus) Subject: electric violin In response to David Charlap's post about the electric violin. If you would like to hear a much better use of this instrument than check out the works of Laurie Anderson. She utilises the unique sound of the instrument to the fullest. I saw recently on tour and was blown away by her performance. At one point she had all the lights off and actually had a long strip of neon attached to the bow of her violin. Quite impressive. Incidentally, Adrian Belew collaborated with her on a couple of her albums. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: KC tourdates Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:49:55 EST From: John Battema (En Garde Music) Hi there; You'll have to forgive me if I come off as a bit uninformed; I'm a relatively new fan to KC and even newer to the list. Has Kc already passed through the VA/DC area? If not, could someone please send me some dates and whatnot (who's doing tix, etc). Thanks much, [ Tourdates are listed via the ET homepage -- Toby ] -- _______________________________________ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /.| ----------------------------------------.| < BATTEMA C/O EN GARDE MUSIC >..| | 2623 KENSINGTON AVE APT. #4 |..| | RICHMOND, VA 23220 |..| | 804 358 1421 |..| | isy3jpb at cabell dot vcu dot edu |..| | |..| | Call/write for discography, |..| < PC Presskit, correspondance, etc. >..| ----------------------------------------.| \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \.| --------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 09 Nov 95 11:11:24 EST From: "Ross W. Jobson" <76746 dot 142 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #235 Just went to gig at St.Petersburg, Florida and as I was getting out of my car, Patrick Moraz got out of the one next to me. Hopefully he enjoyed the gig. Good concert and different material to last one I saw. Plorax 3 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:12:27 +0200 From: zeppo at thrak dot pp dot fi (Arto Seppala) Subject: alan's idea To Alan S. Cohen: You can read minds. While reading the gig reviews from this fantastic ET, I came to the same conclusion. Although I thought it could be a double cd with some Indisciplines and Drums Trios (B'Bish) as "bonus" tracks. I witnessed one version of Thrak in London (18.5.95) and it was totally different than the ones you hear in VROOOM, THRAK and B'BOOM. So I say, you don't have a serious emotional problem, or if you do, you're not alone. So let there be THRAK LIVE. Z. zeppo zeppo at thrak dot pp dot fi [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 12:11:20 -0600 From: gdstrip at edge dot net (George and Dianne Stripling) Subject: re: this is a happy place Toby, ET subscribers, Sorry for the "What is this shit". I did not reallize this was not appropriate. I do intend to respect your requests Toby. :-) but, What about "hard to swallow"? (From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (ET Mailing List) Subject: The Mighty 'Tron) How about Robert C. Parducci's <76206 dot 3036 at compuserve dot com> signiture "> Shake this way, that way, do it right <> And you might get someone home for the night -R. Symzer"? or the ":-p" symbol? I question the notion that fans of a band such as King Crimson must remain in a "happy" state-of-being on ET. What is happiness without saddness? Anger/ joy? Sarcasm... seriosness... Are insulting remarks, however interpreted, politically incorrect? I understand your desire to keep ET from degenerating into what are currently regarded as flame wars, etc. It must be a difficult task. I frankly admit however that I honestly wonder how one would find it rewarding. ;-) Must King Crimson/ ET posts conform to certain standards? How about it fellow ETers! also, I recently read numerous posts from fans of soft-porn. Although being somewhat remotely connected to KC I guess, this is still outrageous! Exploitation of women is wrong! The fashion, glamour, soft-porn, hard core porn industries exploit women. This sort of "trickle down" business is sort of like how the so called liberal (but Murdoch owned) network news leading to shows like Nightline, then Larry King, then Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchannan, on to talk radio, and then even ShortWave. As long as civil society regards sexual exploitation as a matter of freedom of expression/ privacy, women will continue to suffer and die at the hands of men. Sites such as Penthouse's www site that pander to the businessmen in our society are HUGELY POPULAR, I certainly am not happy about such things. I even admit to being curious enough to go there and see for myself just how sex is used in the right wings propaganda escapades of late. Very Interesting. So how long before us KC fans are labeled politically incorrect, censored, or banned? Thanks again Toby for a forum for KC/Fripp lovers! [ I'll just take a second to repond: many people tell me one reason they like ET is that it has a different character than most email music lists, especially in that there is no flaming. However, we certainly do have strong differences of opinion, and arguments, anger, joy, sarcasm, and so on. My point in objecting to "What is this shit?" is that it is to my ear a rather negative and unpleasant way to open a post. Don't get me wrong: I swear like a trooper myself most of the time (especially when moderating ET). Bwahahahah. :-) In fact I very rarely reject or edit posts to ET. It seems to have somehow developed its own tone all by itself. And that's good, I think. -- Toby ] <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> George Stripling Jr. gdstrip at edge dot net http://edge.edge.net/~gdstrip/ <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:54:33 -0800 From: richie at nova dot net dot com (Richard Schiavi) Subject: born again with LTIA Ok, I must admit, I have really been a post-80 King Crimson fan from Discipline on and never really delved back in time to anything prior except RED (mostly for that song) and of course, the song Court of The Crimson King, but never really any whole "album" from that era. However, I just bought LTIA and can't stop listening to it. Easy Money and Talking Drum are two of the best friggin' songs ever! And that album has so many influences on modern music it is amazing. The Bass sound is incredible as well. Does anybody know what Wetton is playing as far as instruments go? -Rich [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: gsmath at wisenet dot net Subject: Re: Logo possibilities Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 12:31:37 Central Standard Time+0000 Hello, fellow Crimsoids! A few folks have responded to my earlier inquiry with their ideas re: the meaning of the KC logo. One said he thought the 6 "spokes" were representative of the 6 musicians in the band. Another said he thought it was obviously a "K" and "C" set on their sides. Any other possibilities? This could get interesting... -- Stewart [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:48:12 +0800 From: John dot Lukes at Ebay dot Sun dot COM (John Lukes) Subject: Mellotron/synthetics debate (RESEND) Regarding the ongoing debate around the Mellotron and collateral issues around synth-guitars etc., my reaction is that it really is all a matter of personal taste -- there can be no "black-and- white" final "truth" about this. Some folks hate the sound of certain "real" instruments -- how keen are you on Scottish bagpipes, for instance?! I know folks that hate the harpsichord; some love it. There are some who still reject the wooden piano as a "johnny-come-lately" -- and would prefer to disallow any JS Bach from being played on it. The criticism of the Mellotron ought to, in my humble opinion, be centered around it's reliability, not it's "autheticity" or "legitimacy." When Mr. Hammond, the clockmaker, introduced his electric keyboard instrument, he was disallowed from calling it an "organ" by a the powers that existed at the time. But later Hammond Organs disallowed dealers from selling Leslie speaker systems in their stores -- claiming it was an illegitimate and unacceptable way to "present" the Hammond's "voice." So tell Keith Emerson, Jimmy Smith, Booker T. Jones, Billy Preston, Ethel Smith and others that they have made an illegitimate career playing an illegitimate instrument, through an illegitimate speaker system. Electric guitars are illegitimate as well...and all lead singers should go back to using good old larynx power. No more microphones and PA systems. Totally unnatural and awful sounding. Let's see, let's go back to animal skin drums and single string lyres. That's about it. Everything else is an abomination. Stop driving cars, wearing synthetic fabrics, using telecommunication systems.... Oh, I see, it really is all about my opening point: PERSONAL TASTE!! Okay, then you can listen to Black Sabbath and I can listen to Glenn Gould and we are both "okay"?!!! Wow, what a concept! Gee, chocolate ice cream eaters can coexist with vanilla ice cream eaters?!! (Is this asking too much? Is it artificial vanilla or the real thing?!) By the way, anybody got a spare accordian?! Where is Lawrence Welk when we need him?!! And, please, turn off the bubble machine! ;>) -JOHN [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 13:19:41 -0500 From: Ryan Sutter I have a Japanese import CD copy of GGF that I purchased before it was available in the United States. The booklet in the CD is written in Japanese and so I had friend of mine who speaks Japanese translate the liner notes for me. Here they are (complete with little idiosyncrasies in the phrases) for anybody who finds them interesting: Translation of Liner Notes for Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp Translated from Japanese by Sy Park This piece entitled "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp" although relatively well known among the legends of King Crimson, has remained unheard by many fans because of having been out of print for a long time. After all, the original British release only sold about 500 copies, and according to Robert Fripp, his royalty check showed the sale of one copy in Sweden (incredible!?), and forty copies in Canada. It is not known how well the American release, with a different jacket, sold, but it must have not sold very well, considering the lack of reports of huge sales. Frankly, the quality of the piece does not even compare with the overwhelming perfectness of the later King Crimson, but it is nonetheless a profoundly interesting piece as the first step toward the Crimson legend. Let us first uncoil the formation of Giles Giles and Fripp, the preface of the Crimson legend. The main characters her are Michael and Pete, the Giles brothers. They are from Bournemouth, Dorset, and started activities in the mid-60's. The drummer/bassist brothers performed in bands like The Dowlands, with people like Alan Barry (Guitar, late of The Fields), and the Trendsetters Ltd. as R&B flavored instrumental band that included a brass section. The latter is said to have released a single though Parlophone and supported Ben E. King in his British concerts. When the Trendsetters Ltd. broke up in 1967, the Giles brothers returned to Bournemouth and decided to look for an organist who could also sing for their new band. However, it was Robert Fripp, a guitarist who could not sing, that approached them. Robert Fripp is also from Bournemouth and, during his school years, played violin in the school orchestra and received classical guitar lessons from a local tutor (who is said to have been a famous banjo player in the 30's). Under the same tutor Greg Lake was also receiving lessons. Fripp's goal as the time was to become like classical guitar masters from the 30's like Eddie Lang and Nick Lucas. It is interesting to note that Fripp took seriously the lessons such as "The Palace of Alhambra" or Carcacci's "Etude No. 7" day and night. It is surprising that so classically oriented Fripp came to the Giles brothers with the thought of forming a group, but the Giles brothers who had had professional experiences probably were a heroic existence locally. They were ambitious about entering the world of music business again as they were playing at the Beacon Hotel in Bournemouth. Fripp, who particularly dreamed of becoming a professional musician, must have felt the ambition strongly. in the summer of 1967 (Either in July or September), the three of them decided to go to London, and Fripp, who was also acting as the manager, found a job of playing as an Italian restaurant in German St. near the Picadilly Circus. They were to work as the backing band for a singing accordionist called Douglas Ward. But, after Ward was hospitalized following as accident they found a job at a different Italian restaurant called Dolce Vita. Here they found a job as the backing band for a canccone singer named Hot-Lips Moreno, and played songs like "Blue Moon" and "The Breeze and I". The trio also played such standards as Donovan's "Mellow Yellow" with Michael handling the vocal. Besides this activity they were doing various other jobs with Michael Giles working as a part-time member in a jazz band called The Mike Molton Five and Pete and Robert working in the pick-up band at the Italian restaurant. They made a demo tape and took it to different record companies and eventually succeeded in signing a contract with Deram in June 1968. Then, toward the end of the same month they released their debut single "One in a Million"/"Newlyweds" (Deram, DM188) and in September released the debut album "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp". Immediately after the completion of the album, two new members joined them, Ian McDonald and his then girlfriend Judy Dyble (formerly of Fairport Convention), making the band a quintet. The A side of their second single "Thursday Morning"/"Elephant Song" was different from the album version and featured a take with Ian McDonald handling vocal and playing the clarinet. After that, this lineup with Ian McDonald and Judy Dyble recorded three songs, and one of them. "I Talk to the Wind", was later included in "A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson". The remaining two, "Under the Sky" and "Drop In", recorded after Dyble left in about a month, remain unreleased. However, the song "Under the Sky", written by Ian McDonald and his friend Pete Sinfield, later saw the light of day on Sinfields solo album "Still". The quartet, Giles, Giles, Fripp and McDonald, performed a twenty-five minute set on the "Color Me Pop" tv program, but by November 15, 1968 (about 4:30 AM) they had turned into King Crimson. The first improvement took the form of recruiting Fripp's old friend Greg Lake, who at the time was in London as a member of The Gods (which later became Uriah Heep), strengthening the vocal. However, when P. Giles left to become a computer operator, Lake also took up the bassist's position. Then, with the lyricist Pete Sinfield joining as a roadie and also as a lighting operator the legend of the original King Crimson really began. I will recount what happened beyond this point on a different occasion and instead introduce this particular album. While the LP features monologues between songs, entitled "The Saga of Rodney Toady" (written by Fripp) on side A and "Just George" (written by Michael Giles) on side B, they say that the concepts on the monologues and the tunes were separate. According to Fripp, side A was made in accordance with Pete Giles musical inclination and the second half Fripps. FOr instance, in Fripp's words, the content of the Pete Giles-dominated side A is nonsensical and he was requested to play guitar in the Pete Giles-favored Barney Kessel style. As if to react to this, it is interesting to hear techniques of purely classical guitar, which is not heard from King Crimson, featured on Fripp's "Suite No. 1". Most notable are the last two tracks by Fripp , featuring his very lyrical guitar playing coupled with the keyboard playing by such guest players as Nicky Hopkins. It is also interesting to listen to the post-"Sgt. Pepper" British rock conscious sounds on Michael Giles eccentric nostalgia pop, "The Sun is Shining" or "How Do They Know" with his very peculiar drumming. The light-pop feeling of this album, which the title "Cheerful Insanity" describes well, draws a shard contrast with the stoic sound of King Crimson, but in this music of Giles, Giles and Fripp, laden with humorous and gentle madness, we see the origin of the Crimson legend. There is little information about the producer Wayne Bickerton, and he probably was a staff producer as Deram. Interestingly, Bill Price, who was the engineer, became famous almost a decade later as the producer for such punk rock groups as The Sex Pistols and The Clash. -- Ryan Sutter trex at skypoint dot com http://www.skypoint.com/members/trex/ The Nuclear Gopher Cheese Factory "It's sad that whole families have to be torn apart by something as simple as wild dogs." - Jack Handey [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:56:23 -0500 (EST) From: Ashley Edward Collins Subject: 1999 Q&A? In responce to TAJTHY Tamas' question about 2002 getting cut off, I just saw that as a typical Frippism, kind of like at the end of the third disc of The Great Deceiver, you hear Wetton introducing Lament, the band warming up a bit and then . . . end of disc. Ashley Collins aec200z at barbados dot cc dot odu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:07:06 -0500 From: Mark2u at aol dot com Subject: 1st Live RED performance >BTW, also the title track from "Red" was never played live until in >Argentina in 1994 (released on B'Boom). Wrong. "Red" was played during the "3ofaPP" Tour. I can remember (Greek Theater, LA) Adrian saying something like "The name of this next song is the same color as this guitar" Then they crashed into "Red." Mark Stevens [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 15:50:06 -0500 From: kenth at magicnet dot net (Kent Huffnagle) Subject: Winter Tour Cancelled I just got some info from KC's managment that the Winter tour is cancelled. Better see them on this tour. They might not be back around for ten more years. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:14:31 -0600 From: cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu (James Hines) Subject: HELP!! I desperately need someone to do something for me. If you are going to any of the upcoming King Crimson, could you please get me a T-shirt? I planned on getting it at the concert I went to, but it sold out when I got to the booth after the show. The shirt I want is the one w/ the album covers on front and the Family Tree on back. If you are willing to do this for me, I 'll be so appreciative and will gladly pay for the shipping and handling and all that. I tried to get it from Possible, but they told me that Brockum handles the tour merchandise. I called Brockum and they only have stuff that is in the catalog, not stuff sold at the shows (only some of it, but not what I want). Please e-mail me if you're willing to do this for me. Thanks. Keep on THRAKkin'! James "THE MAN" Hines cheevy-james at mail dot utexas dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:16:42 -0500 From: artc at tiac dot net (Art Cohen) Subject: You Burn me Up! : Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 14:31:58 -0700 (MST) : From: ecerb at indra dot com (Elaine C. Erb) : Subject: ...I'm a Cigarette : : I found an EP at KGNU, our public radio station, called Four From : Exposure. This actually has the credits for the musicians on the tracks. : Listed for You Burn Me Up I'm a Cigarette are: : Robert Fripp - Guitar, Frippertronics : Daryl Hall - Vocals : Jerry Marotta - Drums : Tony Levin - Bass : : So much for the guy who was trying to convince me that Fripp(!) sang that I think the person was probably referring to the fact that Fripp is credited as the author of the *lyrics* on that song. Since the record label credits the song to "Fripp/Hall", does this imply that Daryl wrote the music? If so, the reversal of roles is a classic example of Fripp's contrarian approach. --Art Boston Ska home page http://www.tiac.net/users/artc/ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Drew Nisbet" Organization: inforamp.net Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:16:59 -500 Subject: David Sylvian in Toronto Although this posting isn't directly related to King Crimson, I thought that other ETers may be interested if they, like myself, became acquainted with David Sylvian through his collaborations with Robert Fripp. I'm not familiar with his earlier work, but I intend to begin searching it out (any suggestions?) It's been a long time since I attended a solo performance of the calibre of the David Sylvian concert here in Toronto on Nov. 7. I didn't know what to expect, having only heard him on CD in combination with Fripp, et al., but I wasn't disappointed. Aside from the moronic interjections of some overly stimulated yahoos in the audience, it was a great evening. The performance, although in a medium-sized venue, was very intimate, and in these days of "Unplugged-R-Us", the music seemed crafted for the solo performance that David presented on accoustic guitar and keyboard. As I said, I'm not familiar with David's earlier work, but I enjoyed hearing my favourites on Damage (the title track and The First Day, which was one of THREE encores that David graced us with) and loved the songs that I hadn't heard before. A question regarding The Day Before bootleg CD: I considered purchasing the CD but several tracks are annotated as being "Unreleased". Are these tracks that aren't available on any authorized recordings, or are they simply the mislabelings of some uneducated bootlegger? Drew. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our forefathers had civilization inside themselves, the wild outside. We live in the civilization they created, but within us the wilderness still lingers. What they dreamed, we live, and what they lived, we dream. - T. K. Whipple, Study Out the Land ------------------------------------------------------------------------- druid at inforamp dot net http://www.inforamp.net/~druid [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:24:55 -0500 From: JMYandel at aol dot com Subject: KC logo Methinks the new Crimson logo represents the double-trio. It has six "legs", each leg standing for a member. Also, how many incarnations of Crimson have there been, total? I get lost around the "Islands" group, but haven't there been around six versions of Crimson, from the beginning? If there is, that would seem very highly coincidental w/ the logo and the double trio! Could one of the more expert readers verify this? jonathan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:24:54 -0500 From: JMYandel at aol dot com Subject: What Gunn's playing I've read so many posts concerning the function of Trey in Thrak and B'Boom that I've decided to put this matter to rest (well, sort of...). Below I will list, track by thrak, what Trey is contributing in each piece. Disclaimer: I am by no means claiming to be perfectly accurate on this--all the information comes from my personal familiarity w/ the Stick's unique sound and Trey's style of playing. Keep in mind also that I haven't yet seen KC in concert (I will, come 11/29!), so I don't have the visual evidence to back this up. I do hope this will open people's eyes about the huge contributions that Trey adds to the Crimson sound--and I'll try to keep the musician's techno-language out of this, writing in layman's terms! 8^) "Thrak" (1) Vrooom-- Here Trey adds a regular pulse an octave above Tony's bass line. Trey's lower Stick is distorted--it is more pronounced on the B'Boom version, where he doubles Tony's bass note for note, only an octave higher. Hint: he is in the left side of the mix, w/ Fripp. I also believe he's adding to the chromatic chords During the light arpeggios section, Tony plays the melodic bass line for a few measures, and then Trey joins him in a Bach-like duet, w/Trey on the bottom. (2) Coda: Marine 475--Trey is playing the chromatic bass line along w/ Tony, though he also adds chords. Tony plays the grinding sound of the bowed electric bass, while Trey's bass is clean, and seemed to be in the right side of the mix, Tony being in the left. (3) Dinosaur--Here, he's most likely doubling Fripp w/ those constant two-note slurs. Right before the mellotron break, there is what sounds very much like clean Stick playing, solo. (4)Walking On Air--Trey adds some very beautiful melody lines that plays along w/ Belew's vocal. Trey's melody plays through the entire song, at the end ending up in a trio w/Fripp and Belew on guitar. (5)B'Boom--Here Trey's playing on one of the drum kits (just kidding). (6)THRAK--Gunn's playing a nasty distorted bass line, along w/ everybody else. The guitarists are most likely adding the syncopated rhythms, while Gunn holds down the baritone melody, w/ Levin in the bass. (7)Inner Garden I--Trey is playing the clean bass sound, while Tony plays the bowed electric, adding the "rumbling" sounds. I'm pretty sure the oboe line is done by Adrian on midi guitar, but it could also be Stick. (8)People--He's adding some bizzare "wah-wah" fade-ins. He's also adding the constant pedal tonic an octave above everybody else during the chorus. In the break-down, when Robert does his descending glissondo Soundscapes, Trey adds some glissondo slides of his own. All (except the fast 32nd note runs by Fripp) of the little "licks" you here in the song are done by Trey, which are easily recognizable by their "wah" characteristic. During the "She's So Heavy" segment at the end, he adds a lot of the sound, but the most easily recognizable part is at the very end, where I'm pretty sure that he's doing those ghostly melodies that last until after the rest of the band is finished. (10)One Time--You hear him at the very beginning, fading in on the dominant. His touching fade-ins continue through the verse, until after the chorus, where the oboe melody begins. Now, the oboe sound is probably Adrian on midi-guitar, but I could be wrong. Anyway, after the oboe melody (which repeats twice), there's a few lines where the calypso rhythm stops, and Trey is playing the descending melody. There's also some distant booms which sound during this section, along w/some soundscapes. At the end of the song, the second to last oboe line is doubled by Trey, giving it more resonance. The very last oboe line is harmonized by Trey in one of the most achingly beautiful moments on the album, IMHO. (I get goose-bumps every time I hear it). (12)Inner Garden II--Same as Inner Garden I. (13)Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream--He adds some very unbelievable effects on his Stick. Not only does he add more "wah" licks, but also fade ins, which could at first be mistaken for soundscapes. These fade-ins are most audible while Adrian's singing the words S,S,E,D,D, and one of the guitarists is playing the backwards guitar lines. But listen closely--he's all over the place w/ this one! 8^) (14)VROOOM VROOOM--He's doubling Tony again, an octave up, in more of a baritone section, in the ascending beginning. During the actual first section, w/ the descending chromatic chords, he plays the lowest note of the melody, descending chromatically w/ Fripp and Belew. The "chords" here are not actual chords, w/ person playing them. They are, rather, a result of Gunn, Fripp, and Belew playing in harmony. This process continues throughout the piece, though Gunn sometimes assumes the upper melody. It's a little hard to tell at first which exact notes of the chords he's playing, 'cause he jumps around so much, but in time you will easily recognize him. There is a short "Red"-like break, w/ stabbing guitar chords and mellotron. During this break, Gunn again assumes the baritone melody, doubling Levin's bass line. (15)VROOOM VROOOM: Coda--He adds a lot of those groaning-type sounds, w/ Belew. He is the second to last one to stop playing, Levins bass being the very last. Well, I went on a little long, so I'll stop here. Next issue, I'll do the same w/ B'Boom. I sincerely hope that this helps some of you to realize what a genius Gunn really is! Sincerely, jonathan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "VALASEK, TOMAS" To: Subject: This is Tomas from Athens, GA. I found your address on WWW's Elephant Talk, and would like to join as a long time fan of Rober Fripp and KC. By the way, I am going to the concert in Atlanta on Sunday, Nov 12 and need a right back to Athens after the concert. Do you happen to have heard of anybody travelling to Atlanta and back? If not, could you please post my plea, as I doubt I will join the service in time to ask myself? Thanks a lot and hope to hear from you soon, Tomas Valasek [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:32:06 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: Larks Tongues/Boz'n'Mel Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 17:21:21 -0500 (EST) From: Gideon B Banner Subject: Logo, Lark's Tongues -- Othello >Something I couldn't help but notice a while back. Being a ridiculous freak, >I decided to look up "lark's tongues in aspic" in Bartlett's Quotations. From >Othello, III.3.450: "Swell, bosom, with thy fraught, / For 'tis of aspics' >tongues!" "Aspics" are "asps", I guess a sort of stinging insect; "aspic" >of course >is a sort of jelly food dish. Don't know what this has to do with the >song, but I >thought perhaps there is an intentional connection between the quote and the >song title. Don't know how the larks come into it though. Anyway.... Hmmm. I don't buy it, I'm afraid. Asps (snakes, not insects) may have been called aspics at some time, but aspic as a jellied preserve often used for fancy meats is much more likely. The idea of 'Larks tongues in Aspic', that is, fantastic music frozen in some form of preserving medium, seems to be a perfect description of a record of the Crimson sound... --- >I was listening to ISLANDS by KC which I had not listened to in years, and >re-reading the liner notes noticed that Mel Collins played saxophone & BOZ >played bass & vocals. >In BAD COMPANY's debut album BAD CO. Mel Collins played saxophone & guess >who is the bass player (still is) for BAD COMPANY? No other than Boz! >I imagine that it probably is the same BOZ. I was amazed when I recently noticed that Pete Townshend and Ronnie Lane's 1983 album "Rough Mix" featured both messrs Collins and Burrell. James [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:00:32 -0500 From: one42857 at mindspring dot com (Unknown) >Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 17:21:21 -0500 (EST) >From: Gideon B Banner wrote: >Should I spend the money on the Europa String Choir and Gitbox Rebellion >albums? Would I be buying these albums just because they're associated >with KC/Fripp/Discipline, or because they're really good groups that work >in the same musical vein? If you're interested, then perhaps. Whether or not you are buying them just becuase they are (or are not) associated with the above mentioned is a question you should ask yourself. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 22:35:06 -0500 (EST) From: James Hannigan Subject: Annie on the wrong night > TUE NOV 21 Irving Plaza NYC 8PM > > Annie Haslam > is proud to present > Lily's In The Field > > A benefit concert for orphans in Bosnia-Herzegovina. > Featuring Justin Hayward, Steve Howe, Phoebe Snow, > Gary Brooker, Roy Wood, Cheap Trick, Ian McDonald, > and Annie Haslam. Hosted by Al Franken (SNL). > > Ticket Info: Irving Plaza & Ticketmaster > $22.50 Reserved, $19.50 General Admission Sorry I've got an event at the Longacre to attend that night... Who's the genius who scheduled this thing opposite King Crimson? I'd probably go otherwise. One question: In light of the Boz discussion, I noticed on my Bob Dylan album "Street Legal" the drumming is by one Ian Wallace. The same as the Islands drummer, anyone know? [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 16:50:07 JST Subject: KC's instruments used during Japan Tour Hi Everyone, This is a translation of an article in a Japanese magazine recently published. The magazine is meant for musicians. The article explains what sort of instruments and equipments were used by KC during Japan Tour. It has a lot of color pictures of actual instruments. Because the original article is in Japanese, there might be some mis-spelling in the translation below, especially regarding specific brand names of the instruments. Some other ET'ers can correct them. ==== RF 48th St. Custom Guitar Les Paul model, made by New York studio of ESP. It has Keiler's (spelling?) tremolo built-in. It also has Roland GR Guitar Synth-Driver built-in. Before RF had Tokai (spelling?) Les Paul guitar which also had Keiler's tremolo. (two pcitures of a guitar. one from the front, one behind) RF did not use the 3U Multi type equipment which was a knock-down of compact effectors. Instead he used two sets of Roland GP-100. Eventide DSP4000 is also newly introduced. TC Electronic's 2290 is for a long delay in Frippertronics. (a picture of installed equipments in a rack mount). On the top of RF's rack system, there was Roland's Virtual Guitar System VG-8. We could not tell how RF used this equipment. In the liquid cystal display area, we could read letters "V-INTAGE". He might use it as rather traditional guitar sound. (a picture of VG-8) AB Fernades produced a Gold Top Les Paul model for AB. AB got it from Fernandes during this visit to Japan. AB used it right from the first day of Japan Tour. It has Keiler's (spelling?) tremolo, GR Driver and FER Sustainer which is a new effector, all buit in. (a photo of Fernandes) AB also used Fender Csutom Shop Stratcasters (orange and yellow). Two Stratcasters are the same except for the outer colors. They have Fender Race-sensor (spelling?) pick-up, Keiler's (spelling?) tremolo unit, Roland GR Guitar Synth-Driver built in. Keiler (spelling?) is usually a double lock type which attaches lock knots (spelling?). The prevention of the off-tuned sounds is done through the peg (spelling?) from Sperzel (spelling?). This is because AB is fond of picking the strings inbetween the peg and the knots. Except for the GR controller knob, there is only a volume controller, a simple solution. (photos of orange and yellow guitars). AB's rack mount includes two sets of Korg A3, two sets of Foxx fuzz and electronic harmonics frequency analyzer (ring modulator) knocked down into IU. On the floor, AB has MIDI mitigator RFC-1 and volume pedal. Two sets of Bag End cabinet speakers , each having one 12-inch speaker. These were used in a stereo mode. Simplified live performance-oriented set-up. (photos of rack mount, MIDI mitigator and Bag End speaker) TL Since the old days TL uses Musicman's bass guitar. This time he used 5-string Stingray 5 from AnnieBall/Musicman. The difference between this 5-string and 4-string is that the 5-string has 3-way selector switch. With this, TL can select Series/Tap/Paralell of pick-up. (a photo) For the first time TL revealed Saver (spelling?) bass from AnnieBall/Musicman. This is a new version of bass guitar previously sold under Musicman brand. It is a high-class bass guitar just like 2 P.U. (pick-up) from Stingray bass. TL's bass has a graffiti-like design. (a photo) TL also used a rare Musicman Catlath (spelling?) II. It's a fretless Saver (spelling?) bass version. TL used a custom-made electric upright bass. It has 5 strings and level controls for each string. TL uses a bow for a think sound. Chapman Stick has 12 strings. It's called "Grand Stick" because it has two more strings than a normal stick. Strings are composed of 5 bass strings with 5th tuning system and 7 melody strings with 4th tuning system. (a photo) Bass speaker is Trace Elliot, a world-famous bass amp/speaker manufacturer. TL coulples it with solid state AH600SMX and Bonneville H100 which is usually used for guitars. TL may be using these to differentiate normal sounds and overed live sounds. On top of the Bonneville H100, there were Lexicon's Audio Morfing Processor and Vortex. The speaker cabinet had two 15-inch speaker 1524 and two 10-inch speaker 2120 and four 12-inch Load (spelling?) SC412F. (photos) TL's compact effector includes BOSS' compresser and digital delay, Tube Works' (spelling?) Tube Driver, DOD's Octo-Plus (spelling?). TL also used wooden "fingers" which he wore on top of two fingers to create slapping sounds as he hit the strings. TG TG is a co-devloper of Warr guitar. It's an inbetween instrument of Stick and guitar/bass. It's called GB5/7. It has 12 strings, five of which are for bass sound and 7 of which are for guitar sound. Pick-up is by Bartolini (spelling?). The bridge is custom-made Wilkinson. (a photo) On the floor, TG had Meatball which made auto-Waw-like sounds. It looks like a VCF circuitry of an analogue synthesizer of Lovetone brand taken out. He also had TC Electronics sustain and equalizer, Digitech Wah-me (spelling?) II and volume pedal. (a photo) TG used two sets of SANS AMP rack as pre-amp's. He had Eventide's DSP4000, ART Mach II, Korg A2, Beringer (spelling?) compresser/limiter, ADA's amp simulator, etc in his rack mount. The sound signal was amplified through Trace Elliot PPA1200 power amplifier. It drove the monitor speaker in front of TG. Rack was controlled through MIDI mitigator RFC-1 just like Adrian Blew. (photos) BB For acoustic drums, BB used Star Classic set. Sizes are 10", 13", 16" and 22". For snare drum, BB used 14" x 6 1/2". Tam is held up by Starcast Mounting System which Bill praises very highly. The drum set's color is Sunny Yellow. Simmons (spelling?) pads are also in yellow. BB's set was characterized by many Simmons pads and two crash cymbals which were held very high in the air. All cymbals were from Paiste. (photos) On the top of BB's rack system, there was Simmons' SDX, a special secret. It is an ultimate drum control system which integrates sampling sounds and sequencer. The rack also had sound samplers Simmons and E-Mu Pro-cussion as well as reverb. (photo) PM PM used Joe Montineri set as the basic drum set. Tams of 8", 10" and 12" were held up by Starcast Mounting System just like Bill. 2 bass pedals. Unique thing about PM was that he used a small 10" cymbal for hi-hat. This emits mechanical sounds. PM sits on a stool with back-rest made by Gibraltar. (photos) Pat also used electric drums. The main machine was Korg's Wave Drum. In the rack mount, there were Kurtzwell (spelling?) K-2000, Yamaha DTS-70 sound samplers as well as effectors scuh as Korg A2 and Lexicon Vortex. These were fed through a mixer by Macky (spelling?). (photo) During an encore, special bell-like percussions and Tama's Gong Bass were used. (photo) That's a complete translation of an article. Bye, Tom [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Ian McKay" Organization: S.A.C. Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:35:24 +0000 Subject: Half speed masters, McDonald and MacDonald >In ET #235 MBRADBURN at NARVAX dot NAR dot EPA dot GOV asked: >Are there any 1/2 speed mastered KC vinyl(ItCotCK?)? Yes. I have a copy of a half speed mastered ItCotCK which was released around 1983 on Editions EG in the USA (manufactured by Jem EGKC1). It does not mention the fact that it is half speed mastered anywhere on the sleeve but came shrink wrapped with a sticker saying 'Collectors Edition - Half Speed Mastered). Pity about the pressing though. I also recall seeing a copy of ItWoP at the same time but due to lack of funds (they were expensive US imports) I didn't buy it then and have never seen it since. I have a book called 'Rock Record' by Terry Hounsome which is basically a listing of every Rock LP/CD released in the UK/USA and several other places which lists both the above releases and all the other KC LP's (except Earthbound) with similar catalogue numbers (EGKC1 - 8, but not 5). I don't know if any of the others were half speed masters or not though. The book also lists a copy of ItCotCK released in 1984 by MFSL (1-075) in the USA which I assume will also be half speed mastered. > The CD doesn't seem to have the punch, clarity, separation of the > vinyl. Agreed. In ET #230, Russell Whitworth wrote: >Incidentally, I'm still convinced (until someone comes up with >evidence to the contrary) that the author Ian MacDonald is not >the King Crimson member Ian McDonald - mainly on the grounds of >spelling! And yet... my copies of Exposure (vinyl and CD) >include thanks to "Ian MacDonald" as one of the artists involved >but not appearing. Ian McDonald and Ian MacDonald are two different people. Ian MacDonald (the author) has an article in the current issue of UK magazine MOJO about the Beatles and the magazine says the following about him: "Ian MacDonald was assistant editor of New Musical Express in the early '70s before leaving to do as little as possible for the next 20 years. In this he was modestly successful except for some journalism.... (snip) ..he also put in a few hours as a songwriter and studio hand... (snip) ..An inactive member of the Society for Psychical Research, he is available for matrimonial proposals, plausible or otherwise." Sorry if the quote infinges any copyright laws. Ian McKay Being assistant editor of NME probably explains the Fripp connection as KC/Fripp were interviewed fairly regularly by the mag in the '70s. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:03:08 -0500 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: Acoustic vs Synthesized music. First of all, as I would have expected, you fellow-KC fans have been engaged in an interesting, knowledgable discussion concerning the use of sythesizers. In most other rock-related newsletters, this would never even come up. Here's my two cents (or two bob, for our UK friends). As I grow older, I find myself listening to music that has an increasing number of acooustic instruments. The reason, I think, has to do with why many Jazz musicians have always, for the most part, poo-pooed most electric instruments. With a fine acoustic player (say John Coltrane), the actual note that is being played is only a small part of the story. With an acoustic instrument, the musician is carefully controlling the overtones as well. This, of course, is not possible with synthesized instruments. Yes, of course, I am aware that an overtone series is programmed in or manipulated from the outset, but a synthesizer player is not able to dynamically and instaneously control the overtones. The effect is vastly more subtle and, I believe, interesting to lis ten to (for a good example, listen to T-Bone Burnett's "Criminal Under my Own Hat"). Belew's feedback and Fripp's peddleboard are a step in the direction of acoustic complexity. That being said, the are times when an electric instrument player is doing something so interesting notewise that it is fascinating and powerful to hear (Fripp, Levin, Joe Zawinul and the late Jaco Pastorius are examples). Too often, however, the lack of ability and/or creativity on the electronic musician's part causes him/her to rely on the technology to do much of the creating. The result in the end is like eating cotton candy: it may have tasted great at the beginning, but it leaves you awfully hungry soon after. -Emory. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: E#KIRKD at ccmail dot ceco dot com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 09:37:53 CST Subject: More Melodic Mutations G Garner wrote in ET#235 about a number of melodic mutations, here's one more: The beginning of Neurotica (before the band blasts in) is IDENTICAL to the music in Haaden II on Fripp's Exposure. -- Daniel A. Kirkdorffer | "Though the course may change sometimes Email: e#kirkd at ccmail dot ceco dot com | rivers always reach the sea." R. Plant DanKirkd at aol dot com +----------------------------------------- WWW: http://users.aol.com/dankirkd/danhome.html [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: E#KIRKD at ccmail dot ceco dot com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 09:54:51 CST Subject: Missing Gig Reviews of Denver 10/28 show Yo ETers! Looks like we don't have any reviews of the second Denver show on 10/28. Would anyone like to fill this gap with a write up? In case you've missed any, the gig reviews are being archived in http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/gig-reviews/gigs95.htm Dan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: E#KIRKD at ccmail dot ceco dot com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 10:42:29 CST Subject: What hit Fripp? Hello again! Although the Fort Worth incident we've all been reading is far from amusing, I have however found the written accounts of the incident to be rather on the humorous side when considered as a whole. From what I've read I still can't determine what actually hit Fripp. But perhaps if we looked at all the accounts one after another it may be easier to figure it out. So here goes. From: dhollist at iphase dot com (David Hollister) [David was in the 5th row and was the first to inform us of the scandulous act] "I especially despised the sub-human scum that threw something on the stage after their set and hit Mr. Fripp in the head." From: alan at ernest dot itg dot ti dot com (Alan Edmonds) [In the 3rd row] "Some crazed fan from about 10 rows back in the center section threw something toward the stage. Mr. Fripp ducked but was slightly clipped on the head. Major bummer. I couldn't tell what it was; it appeared shaped like a small Frisbee but colored red and white like a Coca-Cola can. The crowd groaned in shock and mumurs of 'there goes the encore' were heard throughout. Mr. Fripp put his hand to his head and started looking around for the object. [...] you could see Mr. Fripp walking around in the back with his hand to his head." From: JPVMIDPAUL at aol dot com (Paul Ciminero) [Paul was in "the 13th row slightly to the left"] "some moron threw something at the stage and hit Fripp in the head...maybe it was a frisbee or a halloween mask...Fripp had this "Mr. Bill..Oh No" look of surprize on his face..grabbed the top of his head" From: Le Monsieur Damon [Unsure about where his vantage point was] "one person had gotten a bit too drunk and, in a moment of over-enthusiastic applause, tossed what must have been a crushed plastic cup at the stage. It hit Fripp square in the middle of his head! Of course, everyone booed at this individual and Fripp walked off, rubbing his head frustratedly." From: silver [silver says he had "2d row right-of-center seats, right by the aisle running between the center section and the right section, which was a damn fine vantage point for the show."] "When they all stood up to take their bows and stuff, this one person decides that the band really needs a personal message, and proceeds to throw it up on stage. From the arc it travelled, I imagine it was more substantial than paper. Probably a cassette tape or something. . It pegs Robert Fripp on the head. ROBERT FRIPP, and it hits in in the head! the entire audience started booing and the band quickly left the stage. Robert was holding his hand to his head the whole way." From: penseur at intellex dot com (Ed Poe) [Ed sat "Right Center aisle"] "where I was sitting in FW, it looked like Fripp wasn't really hurt, just hamming up the moment." From: richard helm [Richard sat "left-center 5th row...directly in front of stage-right speaker array"] "Band reappears on stage under white stage lights for bows and backslapping..... WHEN SUDDENLY.... An object from the opposite side of the room from where I was (it looked like either a program or a plastic water bottle) comes flying through the air and strikes ROBERT in the HEAD just above his left ear....Robert looks stunned...This is met with"Boo's" and people turning in the direction of where the offensive object came from...Robert rubs his head and suddenly exits the stage." So from these accounts we've got a small frisbee-like, red and white coca cola can colored, halloween mask-like, crushed plastic cup-like, more than paper/perhaps a cassette tape-like, program/plastic water bottle-like object. Can anyone settle this and provide the definitive definition of what did in fact hit Mr Fripp on Halloween night in Fort Worth, Texas? Dan [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is (Orn Orrason) Subject: Fripp & Bowie Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:08:17 +0000 (GMT) I just read an interview with Bowie today where he said that he considered Fripp at one stage for his most recent album Outside. He added that Frpp is "wonderful" but the convenience of working with Mr. Reeves made the decision. I was disappointed when I read this as I feel that Bowie is giving up his ultimate artist goal for the sake of convenience. I am not going to buy this album. Let me add that I find Scary Monsters scary in quality and represents Bowies and Fripp's best work. Fripp is magnificient here, Bowie made good records before Changes (with Wakemen making the diff.) but has always had medicore guitar players (Carlos Alomar) excepet of course on the Let's dance album. Thrak is good but no masterpiece. I believe their concerts show them in their top form and simply demand a VHS -PAL offerings from that. I miss the magical things from THRAK which is on their pre-81 albums. I do think that these guys are to professional in their attitude to playing music, that is they use their left hemisphere to much. They should connect themselves to the magical sources and have a good" fairy". bye ************************************************************** * * * Orn Orrason - Electronic Engineer * * University of Iceland - Systems Engineering lab * * Tel +354 525 4703 Fax +354 525 4937 em: ossi at kerfi dot hi dot is * * * ************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:15:53 ARG From: "Federico Rattenbach " Subject: info When is going to play King Crimson in Argentina ? --- Federico Rattenbach rata at direc dot fsoc dot uba dot ar [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:21:08 -0500 From: kfa at orpsparcc dot cnet dot att dot com (Kurt F. Angel) First, thank you Toby for all the work you do. I am a drummer posing as a test engineer to support my family and music habits. I was inspired by Pat's story in Modern Drummer. He was a complete unknown to the KC organization. Yet, through a chance meeting with a stranger and a little determination, Pat ended up doing an audition and ultimately got the gig. I thought what if I follow his example. Maybe I could find a way up Mount Olympus too. My ultimate dream would be to meet and perhaps even jam with some of my musical heros. Four sticks and a table top would have made me happy. I leave work and head straight to the venue. I end up arriving just when the opening act gets out of their car. I speak to them and inquire about access to the sound check, perhaps my only opportunity to jam. They inform me that no strangers are allowed. Undaunted, I watch them enter. A moment later I find my self tracing their path. Before I know it I am sitting on the second row while the drum tech is tuning Bill's highly coveted snare drum sound. What an amazing sound the unamplified and naked sound of Bill's kit. I decide to get a little bolder and wander back stage. As I make my way behind the speaker stack, KC enters and begin their rituals. I sit and begin to take in the sights and sounds of the tiny morsels of various tunes. Bill's technique is extremely quiet to my surprise. This approach gives him a very large dynamic range, which he uses to good effect. For you non-drummers, most guys try to fit 100 levels between loud and very loud which is not nearly as effectiv! e. Sound check is over too soon fo r me as Bill tunes a drum to C# with help from Toni. What a great moment to have stolen. I make my way back towards the band, I manage to talk to Pat. He was much nicer than the security guard that escorts me to the exit. I could hardly believe that I made it that far and yet was unable to speak to Bill. My dissapointment was relieved when I return home for my ticket and was greeted by my smiling son. I did manage a short jam in my home studio. I played some patterns and imagined some interplay with my fellow musicians. It is too bad that the world "is a dangerous place" and the musicians we fans admire must lead such protected lives. I understand their need for privacy and I hope I did no harm by inviting myself into their world. Thanks for this memory guys! The show in Orlando was good. The sound of the mix was excellent and the crowd was well behaved. They set was very close to those recounted earlier in ET. If any ET readers are in the Orlando, Florida area and want to jam, contact me at orkfa at attme dot att dot com or 407 345-6649. I have a complete home "plug and play" studio. You only need your ax. Kurt Angel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 16:24:38 +0100 From: benhadji at rennes dot enst-bretagne dot fr To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Miscellaneous Hello happy Crimheads! I'm a 23 years old french student and that's my first posting to ET, so be indulgent with my english writing. An Elephant Talker recently wrote that he was "impressed by how many people actually got into KC by hearing their first album, ITCCK." Well, sorry... It's my case. I was ransacking in my aunt's LP collection which includs stuff from Pink Floyd, Genesis, Yes... as I found a KC record, ITCCK. I played it and I liked it! I've bought all the records of this band except ToaPP and Beat. KC is more than my favorite band. It's something that even in french is hard to explain for me. Well... it's a kind of personnal energy spring, a complex sound universe where I like to loose myself, a mind "purifier". I also appreciate Van Der Graaf Generator, Genesis (the 1969-80 era), Yes (the 1969-80 era too), Pink Floyd, P.F.M, Richard Wagner and Igor Stravinsky. I sometimes try to play little games like not listening to KC for a whole day but.. I can't! I have a few questions to ask: I've been searching in vain for KC's live video tapes in France. Are they available in my country? Is there any french ET who could tell me where I can find these tapes? I'm also searching for Michael Brook records. He played with R. Fripp and D. Sylvian during the "Road to Graceland tour" and I wonder if he released records. Is it one of R. Fripp "crafty students"? What means "Thela Hun Ginjeet"? I've noticed similarities between Vrooom Vrooom Coda and the beginning of the third part of the Devil's Triangle on ItWoP. Does anyone else noticed it or am I wrong? I also want to thanks our japanese and american friends for their gig reviews. It reminded me of KC's show in Paris on May 13th. This show was greater than I thought it would be, so that means it was... what's the most powerfull word in english that could express what I want to mean ?!?!? The crowd asked three times for more and I remember that B. Bruford fluently said in french that it was an incredible evening for the band. Thanks Toby for providing us this forum! While some of my school friends are downloading porn images I'm reading and reading again gig reviews. I find them more impressive than those naked Emmanuelles (Really!!!). Bye! Amir. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] REVIEWS [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 05:48:51 EDT From: caz at UFCC dot UFL dot EDU Subject: Review: Nov 8, St Pete I went to the King Crimson concert this past evening (Nov. 8) in St. Pete, at the opera house-like Mahaffey Theater. I agree with poster Alan Cohen: I'd _love_ a KC cd on which one half was a 40 minute extended version of drum-duet-over-soundscapes, and the other half was 40 minutes of the sort of Thrakovisation we heard tonite. Those were both really amazing parts of this concert. The Guitar Trio were very entertaining, and did a nifty Toccata and Fugue in D Minor with their guitars sounding like harpsicords. (Later Belew's sounded like a piano (as well as a mellotron)). In the bathroom line at intermission, some men were wondering who the heck this Trio was, so I told them more about it. They wondered how I knew, and then thought I was amazingly high-tech when I told them about ET =) KC entered diffently from what I've seen in ET reviews. The drummers appeared on either side of the stage _in front_, with miniature sets, and started things off. (There'd been soundscapes during the intermission, but not when this stuff got started, and Fripp wasn't present at first.) Belew then appeared and hit some licks, after which people went to their assigned places. Levin was wonderfully entertaining to watch. He's lanky and elongated-looking, like that forget-the-name style of religious art. And his instruments look like alien insect devices. He was very enthusiastic, smiled a lot, and had a neat harp-like way of strumming the stick. Not only is Bruford's coat yellow, but all his drums too. He looked incredibly happy the whole time. Fripp was always visible, just not real clearly. The show was less than 2 hours =( but terrific. Mixed fine too. I would've loved a couple more pre-'80's pieces, as I'm the least keen on the eighties' albums (I do prefer the new live versions of that stuff). Songs performed: THG Neurotica Red 3PP Dinosaur Vrooom Vrooom Frame by Frame Sex Sleep etc B'Boom Thrak People stick improv Indiscipline LTiA II encore 1: ET Walking on Air encore 2: drum play Vrooom Can you remind me what, if any, solo albums Levin has, and what they're like? Perhaps it was just Gunn who has done any. Also, is there accompaniment on any of the soundscape albums? It sounded really cool in conjunction with the drumming. The crowd was very civil, perhaps affected by the venue. Chris Z ps: missed Heartbeat, Talking Drum, and (sigh) Starless... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 03:02:35 -0500 From: kenth at magicnet dot net (Kent Huffnagle) Subject: Review of 11\8 in St. Pete, FL Hey all you King Crimson Freaks, My review of 11\8 in St. Petersburg,FL, Mahaffey Theater I just got back from the St. Pete show at the Mahaffey Theater. (4 hours after the band left the stage)The show was awesome!!! This tour is a definite must see for hard-core KC fans!! The set was the pretty much the same as others posted of other shows. But, for those who missed it, it was something like this, as far as I can recall: Opened with a drum duet with Bill and Pat Vroom Vroom Coda(?) Thela Hun Ginjeet Neurotica Vroom Three of a Perfect Pair Dinosaur Frame by Frame Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream B'Boom THRAK People Bass solo into Indiscipline Red 1st encore: Elephant Talk Walking on Air 2nd encore: Two Stix Vroom The show was beautifully performed, the sound, as well as, light show was a thing of beauty. Side notes: Due to a friend who knows Adrian Bellow's manager(Stan H.) I was lucky enough to get a backstage pass. That meant we were allowed to stay after the audience was asked to leave. Part of the band then came out and signed autographs and talked to people. I got to meet Bill Bruford, Tony Levin and Trey Gunn. (but no appearance of Adrian or Robert) After a while, Patrick Moraz showed up, and talked with Bill Bruford. I was talking to Trey Gunn and I asked him "if it were true that he played on the new Mr. Bungle album Disco Volonte"? He responded by laughing, and with a smirk he said, "I can't confirm that". I can't wait for the show at the Tupperware Aud. Thurs. night where I will be 3rd row!!! Must rest after a long day of concert going, with one more to go. See you there. Kent Huffnagle Orlando, FL [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:55:40 -0500 From: Olduvaigy at aol dot com Subject: Review: South Florida Concert King Crimson - Sunrise Musical Theater - November 7, 1995 This is my first post to ET. I saw King Crimson last night in Florida. The Sunrise is a small venue (approx. 4000 seats) and I was very close to the stage (Row 5 on the left side). It is a very nice venue for this type of show. The show was not sold out. The California Guitar Trio started at 8pm sharp. They were great. They played for 30 minutes, mostly material from the NEW Invitation CD plus a few older songs. I always enjoy their concerts and this was no exception. The audience started the normal, annoying "walking up and down the aisles to get another beer" with absolutely no respect for the performers or the rest of us watching the show. There were signs all over the place stating that people were not going to be able to seat during the King Crimson show unless it was between songs. They reminded everybody about this before the show. Few people respected this, starting with the inefficient security at the Sunrise (always in a hurry to kick you out the venue when the show ends, never ready to do their jobs.) The ushers are normally nice here, but failed to enforce the rules, making it annoying for everybody but the drinking patrons. Less than 30 minutes after CGT ended, KC started the show. They started with PM and BB in front of the stage (people still sitting and walking in the aisles, forever), then everybody joined for Thela Hun Ginjeet. I didn't keep track of all the songs and the order but they played (as far as I can remember) Drum Trio, Thela Hun Ginjeet, RED, Neurotica, Three of a Perfect Pair, Dinosaur, VROOM VROOM, One Time, Sex Sleep, Soundscape, B'Boom, Thrak, Stick Duet, Elephant Talk Walking on Air, Lark's II *********** Indiscipline, Matte Kudasai ************** VROOOM The Line up was BACK: PM RF BB FRONT: TG AB TL The show was great. The band didn't look very happy (though AB did thank the audience). The audience made it very difficult, frequently shouting at the wrong time. A very bad one was when the band stopped in THRAK for several minutes until the audience was quiet to continue. Not everybody was like that, but it was a good percentage of people. Too bad. RF seemed very annoyed. He was extremely quiet and still (it looked like a "Weekend at Robert's" episode, with the stiff body and only the hands moving) I saw this tour in Argentina when it started and he looked very happy (always at front), laughing with AB. The audience didn't "get the KC experience" and the yelling was very much like what you would expect a Guns and Roses gig. I expected more from the public, I guess. A guy in front of me left his sit TWICE in the same song. I was ashamed. It wouldn't surprise me if they don't play South Florida again after this one. RF left the stage immediately. I saw RF in Japan and it was dead silence, same thing in Argentina as you can tell from B'Boom. I saw lots of gigs in Europe and people go to watch the show, in the US my experience is that it is a "social thing" were most people go and drink like if they are a sports event (where it doesn't matter if you leave the place for 10 minutes). The show was very different from the Buenos Aires shows. Bill Bruford was a lot quieter, same as Tony Levin. VROOM was very different. Everybody was terrific, and I really love the Pat Mastelloto touch to the new and old songs, he really changed some songs for good (Keep up the great work.) RF was very quiet (and always amazing in Lark's,) the Soundscapes were great (and the audience kept yelling for a while). I loved the VROOOMs and THRAK here. VROOM was also great in Buenos Aires and RED was a lot better in Buenos Aires than in FL. The Stick Duet was GREAT here, better than ever before, Trey was amazing. Tony makes the beginning of "elephant Talk" one of the best parts of the shows. Always. All the performers seemed a little bit annoyed compared to my previous experiences. AB was amazing with his guitar and the singing was very good. I want to see this show again and again and again and AGAIN. After the show the CGT was signing CD's, they are extremely nice and approachable. I could only thank them for the great show. Merchandising was nice, yet overpriced (as usual) TSHIRTS were $23, a SWEATSHIRT was $40, the booklet $15, a pin $6, a baseball cap $20! They were selling the metal Thrak box for $60 and accept Visa/MC. The security guys didn't want to let me move a few yards (we are closing, leave now!) to buy another CD from the CGT (that worked so hard and need to sell CD's and make their music available to more people) The security guys are very fast to kick you out - I hope they did ANY effort whatsoever to enforce what the signs said about sitting during the show. A final note. When I bought the Tickets I went to a store that was open 30 minutes before they start to sell the event to make sure they were ready when starting to sell. The bad news that there was another guy there that was going to buy tickets forx LUIS MIGUEL!!!!!! So I lost better tickets to KC because of LUIS MIGUEL. There is no god (or there is one and has no taste. And I hate Ticketmaster. So long. Thanks for ET. Gabriel Foux [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:35:38 -0800 From: tcona at ix dot netcom dot com (Anthony J. Cona,Jr. ) Subject: St.Petersburg ,Florida I just got back from the Crimson concert in St.Petersburg,Florida and must say that Crimson applied the LAW of MAXIMUM INTENSITY. The only soft part of the evening was during the playing of Walking on Air.The didn't even play One Time.They opened with a Drum improvisation which led into Thela Hun Ginjeet....into Neurotica...to RED..into Three of a Perfect Pair... then Dinosaur.From there into Vrooom and then Frame by Frame.They simply showed no quarter.It was intense from start to finish.They overwhelmed the theater with high intensity playing and in the end left people shaken from a evening in the court of Crimson beast.This band is one of a kind.No one else can even come close. KING CRIMSON RULES! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] TIX [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Gingrich, Brian" Subject: 1 ticket to sell for Chicago Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 18:27:00 GMT I have one ticket to sell for the Chicago show on November 29 at the Rosemont Theatre. It's at Row H / seat 16 in the Right Center Balcony, according to Ticket Weasel. I would just like to get the price I paid for it, which is $25.50, including all the various fees. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 16:44:48 -0600 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: TIX - Any Hockey Fans Out There???? Hi All I have 2 tickets to the NY Rangers vs. the Pittsburgh Penguins for 11/21/95 at Madison Square Garden (Good seats--Section 115 Row D) that I will trade for 2 tickets to any night at the Longacre. Any takers? E-mail me privately. Thanks. Chris Van Valen vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 18:27:21 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: KC ticket for sale, NYC 11/22 one ticket available for the Longacre THeater in NYC, 11/22 16th row, right orchestra, six seats in from aisle. $50. email or call 202-764-7476. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:40:29 -0500 From: kikor at interaccess dot com (kikor) Subject: Another plea for Detroit tix Hi there. I'm still looking for a pair of Detroit tix (Nov. 28th). We've got the time off of work, now we just need to get inside! -thanks -frank [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:55:29 -0500 From: 74762 dot 304 at compuserve dot com Subject: Great Tix for NYC I have spare tix for NYC. The seats are great (orchestra, center!): 11/20: E113 11/21: H104, H105, H106 This is a not-for-profit situation. Please call me at (718)-238-3464. If I'm not home, feel free to leave a message. I'd prefer to make the exchange the weekend before the show, so that there can be no chance of dissapointments. You'll be sitting with me, and I'm a good guy, so if you are going to scream "ITCOTCK" throughout the show, please forget the whole thing! -Mike [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 19:32:49 -0500 (EST) From: Darren Hess Subject: Extra Longacre Ticket (Nov. 22) If anyone is interested in a ticket for the Nov. 22nd show, orchestra row O, please respond by private email. Price is an exhorbitant but justifyable-to-the-insane $50. I'll be coming to NY from Baltimore for the show if some kind of ride arrangements need to be, or can be, made. Thanks, Darren. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]