From elephant-talk at arastar dot comThu Nov 2 07:25:47 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 22:11:49 +0800 From: elephant-talk at arastar dot com Reply to: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: elephant-talk at anthor dot arastar dot com Subject: Elephant-talk digest v95 #233 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 233, Wednesday, 1 November 1995 Today's Topics: Vision re: cgt and ticket confusion I Knew There Was A Reason For The WWW! Re: INTERGALACTIC BOOGIE EXPESS rodney Re: Alice _Charade_ Damage and A Blessing of Tears Re:: Giles, Giles, and Amnesia ??? SAOTW/Sylvian&Fripp/Talking Drum Kurt Vonnegut KC Literary Reference - NOT promised link Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #232 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #232 Red Robert Fripp & Art Re: Thrak radio play Doctor Diamond Faulty .signature Ian McDonald and Bosnian Orphans Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #232 Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #232 TIX TICKET : For Sale - Nov. 9, Orlando, FL 4 tix available: Nov. 22, Longacre Theatre Row M. GIG REVIEWS Colorado Gigs REVIEW: Denver - Oct 27, 1995 Second grader in the second row. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Sorry, but the Web DIY list machine is currently off-line for major servicing. If you want to unsub or change your address, please email me at toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk. -- Thanks, Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] POSTS: Please send all posts to toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The ET archives: WWW Home: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/et/ Topic Index: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/topics-index/etopics.html FAQ: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/faq.html FTP The Americas: ftp.qualcomm.com, in /pub/et Rest of world: ftp.cs.man.ac.uk, in /pub/toby/elephant-talk EMAIL Send "index elephant-talk" to listserv at arastar dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 09:00:20 -0700 From: Paul Martz Subject: Vision Is King Crimson handicapped accessible? I attended the 10/27/95 King Crimson performance at the Paramount in Denver with this question in mind. I suffer from Retinitis Pigmentosa, a progressively worsening condition which has destroyed much of my dim-light vision. The last time I saw King Crimson was in 1984, and I was concerned my eyesight has worsened to the point where I might not be able to see Robert Fripp at all, in the dim lighting so many Elephant Talk readers have complained about. I'm glad to report that I, a person legally blind, had no trouble seeing him whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I'm quite confused as to what all the fuss is about! Fripp was as clearly illuminated as any other band member onstage. My peripheral vision is also quite limited, so I had alot of trouble seeing the entire stage at once. Trying to watch King Crimson perform is a little like watching a three-ring circus, or in this case a six-ring circus. I found I had to scan across the stage constantly to see what was going on. Let me also comment on the wonderful help provided by the Paramount staff. When I pointed out my visual disability, they did not hesitate to assist me in locating my seat. About the show!... Fripp laid down some wonderful brain-melting riffs in the middle of Thrak. I practically came in my pants. A deliciously evil soundscape leading into B'Boom. I could've stood for a little more variety on B'Boom, but it was hot. Speaking of drumming, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the drummers during the entire show; their interacting parts were wonderful. Not alot of tracks from Thrak, but a good dose from the 80s including Neurotica. Elephant Talk sent the audience into a frenzy. Good stuff! The CGT opened and was greatly appreciated by the audience. I must say the audience as a whole seemed to be quite good. Yes, there were a few idiots screaming stupid things, chalk it up to brain damage. But after the show was over you could talk to whoever you wanted and strike up a stimulating conversation of the experience. A friendly bunch, these King Crimson fans. -paul martz at shaft dot fc dot hp dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 13:35:44 -0500 (EST) From: brat prince Subject: re: cgt and ticket confusion to jim sciarra (did I get that right): The man in the hat was no doubt Bert Lams of the CGT and not Fripp as you mentioned some were speculating. re: nyc ticket weirdness There are definately going to be shows at the Long Acre on the 24th and 25th. Not that I can get the Longacre to confirm that but that's the word I got from someone who spoke with Fripp's secretary. I have no idea when the tickets go on sale. Assuming they do, and assuming I am able to get tickets for one of those shows I will have one ticket for wednesday night to sell, but I'll post about that later. If anyone hears a sale date for these two shows, please post or email me as I promised to snag tickets for a few friends. Thanks. -Racheline -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 15:07:36 -0600 From: Rob Carr Organization: AMR, Inc. Subject: I Knew There Was A Reason For The WWW! Elephant Talk is now on my hot list! I've briefly surveyed the landscape and have a quick question. Just before Discipline (the album) was released Robert Fripp had an article in Musician Magazine (USA) discussing the "rules" through which the music was performed. Does anybody have this article/list? As a paraphrased example, one of the rules was "If you think a note needs playing, don't." I think this was aimed at Bruford. Regards, Rob Carr Watauga, Tejas (USA) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Re: INTERGALACTIC BOOGIE EXPESS Organisation: IRISA / INRIA Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:32:01 +0100 From: Eric Rutten > Are there E-Talkers who attended the League's Dusseldorf, Bonn or Hannover > gigs in 1991? Well, I saw them in Bonn in March 1991: is this concert featured on the record? What is the track listing? In my recollection (it is quite some time ago already :-), it was a concert with all lights on in the room; the audience was well receptive, and I think I remember an impromptu encore in the entrance hall of the venue or something like that ... Also, I bought a sticker with a celtic logo of the Discipline kind, signed by RF: I still must have it somewhere ... Eric ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eric Rutten | e-mail: rutten at irisa dot fr IRISA / INRIA, projet EP-ATR | phone: +33 99 84 72 33, fax: +33 99 84 71 71 Campus de Beaulieu | telex:UNIRISA 950 473F F-35042 RENNES CEDEX - FRANCE | http://www.irisa.fr/EXTERNE/projet/ep-atr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Abandon normal instruments (An Oblique Strategy by Brian Eno and Peter Schmidt) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:31:56 +0100 (MET) From: "Erik.Matthysen" Subject: rodney In the last ET, Joe @speakeasy.something asked about fripp's attitude towards his rodney toadey, or in general, GGF-past connections. I'd like to mention two points: - in the "Robert on Compuserve" session which must be somewhere in the ET archives, one participant sent in the line "Rodney! you're tea's ready" and Fripp answered dryly (or rather, typed in): "No chance of that" or "No hope of that". - On a recently surfaced bootleg "A weird person's guide to KC" which I've seen listed in the CD-NOW catalog, there are (bad) copies of GGF's single release with "Nightmares in Red" and I think "Kick the donkey". If you listen to them you might appreciate that Fripp isn't too happy being reminded of that period... Both are not bad but faaaaar from even the earliest KC output. Rome has come, I'm gone, Erik Matthysen, Antwerp [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: Re: Alice _Charade_ Organisation: IRISA / INRIA Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:27:34 +0100 From: Eric Rutten Doesn't this album feature Jon Hassell as well? (I think I heard about that, but I'm not sure) Eric ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eric Rutten | e-mail: rutten at irisa dot fr IRISA / INRIA, projet EP-ATR | phone: +33 99 84 72 33, fax: +33 99 84 71 71 Campus de Beaulieu | telex:UNIRISA 950 473F F-35042 RENNES CEDEX - FRANCE | http://www.irisa.fr/EXTERNE/projet/ep-atr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Decorate, decorate (An Oblique Strategy by Brian Eno and Peter Schmidt) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:29:29 -0500 From: MRKOC at aol dot com Subject: Damage and A Blessing of Tears In Elephant Talk #230, Scott T. Anderson noted that Pat Mastoletto didn't play on "The First Day," and wondered how Pat came to play in the latest incarnation of King Crimson. Pat did tour with Fripp and David Sylvian after the release of "The First Day," as did Trey Gunn. And although I couldn't see either from my vantage point in the Park West (Chicago), and could only see the side of Fripp's head, this half of the "double trio" sounded spectacular live. This may be old news, but anyone interested should pick up the live CD, "Damage" and see for yourself. In the past six months or so, I've read various postings where folks have complained about Fripp taking a back seat to Belew in concert or on the new releases. Anybody who needs a good Fripp fix should pick up this disc. Also, a brief comment on "A Blessing of Tears," which is one of the most beautiful pieces Fripp has produced in years. If this music was inspired by his mother's passing, can't it be considered his "Requim?" It is also a great counterpoint to "1999" which is an assault on your central nervous system. As Belew says, "I like it!" -Kevin O'Connor [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 09:59:48 -0500 (EST) From: dmandl at panix dot com Subject: Re:: Giles, Giles, and Amnesia ??? > From: THRAK > Subject: Giles, Giles and Amnesia ??? > > Does Fripp ever talk about the significance of Giles, Giles & > Fripp, other than how it evolved into King Crimson? Is it something he > is somewhat ashamed of? I'm assuming so, because it is never mentioned > other than as a point of trivia. > > If anyone is capable of reading Mr. Fripp's mind or if you, Mr. > Fripp, would be humble enough to share your thoughts and opinions on this > album, please don't refrain. Any thoughts or information is appreciated. I had Fripp (and Toyah, and Trey Gunn) on my radio show a few years ago, at the time of Sunday All Over the World. Fripp didn't seem to mind talking about it then, though I've had friends tell me that in the past he's avoided the subject. Anyway, on my show, he talked about how it sold four copies in Scandinavia and how the guy who signed them was shipped out to Siberia after the record flopped (that was his "third strike," a previous one being the Pete Best Band, if I recall correctly). And we even played a couple of cuts from it: the fast instrumental (which Fripp said they had to slow down in the studio so that the piano player could overdub his part), and "The Sun Is Shining," which Fripp apparently had me play for Toyah's benefit. She'd never heard it before, and was hysterical laughing. And he even did a bit of his stuttering "Rodney Toady" bit. It was a lot of fun. --Dave. -- Dave Mandl dmandl at panix dot com http://www.wfmu.org/~davem [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 12:08:17 EST From: Gregory Faiers Subject: SAOTW/Sylvian&Fripp/Talking Drum Hey there ladies, gentlemen, and wutnot... This is my first post, having joined this forum a few months back. I have been a King Crimson fan since the late 70's when I really got into the Fripp/Wetton/Cross/Bruford phase of the band. There have been a few "threads" recently in the newsletters which I would like to respond/"contribute" to. The recent request for info on Fripp's work outside of King Crimson stirred up some interesting responses. The different replies reflect not only the indiviual preferences of ET readers, but also the range of concepts that Fripp has delved into when away from KC. We all respond differently to these, based on what it is in Fripp/KC that thrills us. For me, Evening Star, Exposure, League of Gentlemen, SAOTW, and the Sylvian/Fripp collaborations all stand up extremely well. I never was a fan of the Fripp/Summers or the Crafty Guitar phases. I know the reason for this is because, as a guitar player, I have always appreciated Fripp for his ability to find notes, phrases, and create moods through his "runs" of which I can only dream. I was always dissapointed in those albums because many of the selections made me just wish that Fripp would "take over" and make something of it. A recent post referred to the lack of comments on the SAOTW release. It has many of the same "interlocking" and rythmic guitar styles which permeated KC in the 80's. Of course, you have to like, deal with, or adjust to Toyah's vocal stylings, but I can handle it. On the other hand, the Sylvian/Fripp collaborations, both of which I enjoy as much as the recent KC offerings, has more of the "heavy" feel of the mid 70's and current KC lineup (IMHO, Damage is near brilliant). I think an argument could be made, that with Sylvian as the frontman for KC (instead of AB), the current group would be able to pull off that dark, morose feel characteristic of pre-80's KC (which I always loved and now primarily comes across only in the instrumentals). What AB adds (beyond his brilliant guitar playing), is a lighter edge in terms of song writing and lyrics. No complaints, just an observation. One last thing..... Something that I have always been curious about, is how people got into KC. I "heard" ItCotCK when it was released (didn't buy it), bought Starless and Bible Black in the cutout record bin (but couldn't get into it...I did make out with a girl friend while listening to Great Deceiver...I think only hummingbirds could make love to that) and then bought, yes an 8-TRACK of Larks Tongues in Aspic. One time while sitting in the car everything seemed quiet and slowly The Talking Drum emerged....this thread of slowly amplifying tunes picked up on this recently... and by the time it was over, I was hooked for life. Needless to say, I was pleased to see The Talking Drum on the B'Boom release. KC, especially the mid-70's version, was not the most accessable band to get into, and I would think that there are others out there who, like me, danced around KC for a while before they fell in love. One last last thing...I always thought on the Great Deceiver box set, that it was Bill Bruford doing the talking with the audience (including the "Rodney" comments). I reached this conclusion through some of the quips made by RF in the associated "diary" as well as through hearing BB's voice on the Live in Japan video.....Am I white or am I wong? Well, as they say here in central Virginia: Ite, gotta go. Greg "Air" Faiers [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 08:17:22 -0500 From: Dretsim Organization: P&LH Subject: Kurt Vonnegut KC Literary Reference - NOT In ET232, Paul Martz wrote: >After reading all about Stephen King's reference to the "Crimson >King", I thought I would post the following, from American author Kurt >Vonnegut's book, _Deadeye Dick_: >And then the voice from the back of the theater could rumble, "To >reproduce. Nothing else really interests Me. All the rest is >frippery." _Webster's Ninth College Dictionary_ has, among others, the following definition for "frippery:" "2 a: FINERY b: something showy, frivolous or nonessential" This may clear things up a bit. I think this definition makes a lot more sense than some obscure and pointless reference to King Crimson or Robert Fripp. Methinks some dictionaries is in order. Lay-tor, Derek [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:41:57 -0500 (EST) From: brat prince Subject: promised link ...posted ages ago that I would post the link to my piece about the New Standard Tuning class at Claymont when I finally got around to it. Since I have, it's here: http://www.phantom.com/~reive/claymont.html warning though, my internet service provider is deeply flakey and they've been having lots of problems lately. Hopefully these will be fixed by the time the next issue of ET comes out. If not just keep trying I guess. -- Racheline Maltese | "My neighbor with no arms wanted reive at phantom dot com | to know how it feels to let http://www.phantom.com/~reive | something go." -Jeffery McDaniel [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Peter" Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 14:51:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #232 Jukka wrote: >Hmm...How many guitar solos by Fripp have you found on the Bridge >Between then? >I found only the obvious one on "Blue" (recorded in Rosario, >Argentina on May 10, 1993) which is a Starless-like melody (in G minor). >That solo is a typical example of Fripp's eclectic selection exotic scales. Actually, the revelation that it's Trey Gunn playing the solo on "Hope" has led to a lot of confusion on my part. I assume that it's Fripp playing the solo on "Blockhead," and it's that one that I've been listening to over and over and trying to work out. A few asides: Does anyone know what became of the Crash Test Dummies? I bought "God Shuffled His Feet" recently (for $5!) and realized that they've not been heard from in a few years. Are they still together? Just so this isn't totally irrelevant, Adrian Belew plays synth guitar on the title track (briefly). BTW, if you don't have this one, get it! I'm going to sneak a flashlight into the concert on the 18th to see if Fripp is really there, and if so, if he'll turn to dust upon exposure to direct light. :) I'm still waiting for the triple-trio KC-Primus collaboration. I still don't quite get Soundscapes. Pete [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Craig Dickson Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #232 Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:42:23 -0800 (PST) Jason Thornton writes: |>I don't * know * absolutely for certain that they weren't on vinyl, but I |>would rather doubt it. Judging by the length of the albums they would have |>to cram about an hour's worth of music onto one LP and that is invariably a |>recipe for repellant sound quality. | |Sorry, but vinyl is NOT "invariably a recipe for repellant sound quality." I think you've misread the text. The previous writer was not saying that all LPs sound awful, but that very long ones do, which is true. Putting an hour of material on a single LP (30 minutes per side, more or less) requires that the grooves be cut more narrowly, which reduces the signal-to-noise ratio. Todd Rundgren put out an hour-long LP back in the mid-70s; not only did it have poor sound quality, but on the inner sleeve Rundgren added a note warning that if your phonograph needle wasn't in good shape, it would destroy this record very quickly due to the fragility of the unusually-narrow grooves. If 'THRAK' were to be released on vinyl, I suspect it would be a 2-LP set. This is what has happened to other hour-long CDs of recent years, such as XTC's 'Oranges and Lemons' and Jethro Tull's 'Roots to Branches'. THRAK writes: | A few issues back, a post briefly mentioned the forgotten |pre-Crimso album, "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp." Was |it Fripp who recited the Rodney Toadey skits? Yes. weldwd at www dot dgi dot net writes: |In regards to "lizard": |> - a narrow dynamic range with both high and low frequencies severely |>compressed, |> - vocals that sound like they were recorded in a tin can, |> - levels of tape hiss and "crackling" on several tracks, particularly |>"Indoor Games" | |This is typical of the vinyl output from U.S. Atlantic Records in the |Seventies: uniformly appalling. I don't think this is the reason for the audio phenomena referred to by the quote. The "vocals that sound like they were recorded in a tin can", particularly, are clearly part of the intended sound of the album; the EG Records half-speed mastered version of 'Lizard' that I have has the same effect. Likewise, there is a fair amount of tape hiss, and the dynamic range is not very wide. I think that the real reason for the hiss and narrow dynamic range is Fripp's use of cheap recording studios. In the booklet that accompanies the 'Frame by Frame' box set, Fripp comments that KC chose studios more for their availability on short notice than for their quality. This is stated explicitly with regard to Command Studios, where 'Larks Tongues in Aspic' was recorded. I don't have 'Lizard' in front of me at the moment, so I can't check it to see where it was recorded. Even if it wasn't made at Command, it was probably made at some similarly cheap, easily-available (i.e. not much in demand) facility. penseur at intellex dot com (Ed Poe) writes: |Gideon B Banner writes: | |>Is this what Tony Levin plays in concert? I always thought he had some sort |>of electric upright. | |Levin and Gunn play Chapman Stick - ten (or twelve) strings, tuned in |Guitar and Bass parts (point your browser to Toby's FAQ for more info, and |to the web page for a link to the Stick page) Tony has several different instruments; he definitely plays both Stick and bass guitar, and I think he has some sort of electric upright bass as well. In the San Francisco concert a few months back, he used, on a few songs, an instrument that had only four or five strings and stood upright. It was certainly not a bass guitar or a Stick. |John Saylor writes: | |>For instance, most musicians think of a scale as something that covers an |>octave and repeats the same pitch collection in each octave. This is not |>necessarily so. | |Depends on if you believe in equal temperament tuning. ;-) Not just equal temperament. Mean-tone and just intonation also repeat from octave to octave in practice. The particular distinction of equal temperament is that you don't have to retune the instrument to play in another key, because the intervals are consistent throughout the octave, which is not true in other tunings. |This is |important because: | 1. If you don't, then scales don't repeat themselves at all (due |to the nature of perfect and imperfect intervals)... Well, they end up doing so in practice because of the way instruments are tuned. If you had a harpsichord tuned for just intonation, the tuner would make sure that octaves relationships were always perfect, because you generally don't want to hear beating when you hit two notes an octave apart. The mathematical definition of each interval will be correct within any octave (defined by the key to which the instrument is tuned), but between octaves there is a slight reduction to keep the octaves perfect. This is one of the differences between the mathematical definition of intonation and its actual use in the real world. | 2. If you do, try tuning your guitar to Fripp's new standard (from |the lowest string, start on C, go up in fifths to the E on the fifth |string, and put the nominal 'E' string on the G a third above its usual |pitch) and play around on the bottom (pitch, that is) two strings. If you |put your finger on the seventh fret of that C string, you should have a |unison between that note and the open G string. Unless your guitar is |fretted for that tuning, you won't be able to have that unison in tune and |have the proper fifth between the open strings. ??? If your guitar is fretted for equal temperament, then you should be able to do all sorts of equal-tempered tunings (Crafty tuning included) without weird intervals creeping in. The whole point of equal temperament is that the notes are consistently spaced within the octave -- take any note, multiply its frequency by the sum (1 + twelfth-root-of-two), and you get the frequency of the note a half-step above it. Thus you can play in any key you like without having to retune the instrument. For the same reason, it doesn't matter how you tune a guitar -- the relationships between notes are preserved regardless. Craig [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:56:24 -0500 From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Subject: Red j at vrooom dot pp dot fi (Jukka Kukkonen) posts: >BTW, also the title track from "Red" was never played live until in >Argentina in 1994 (released on B'Boom). It has some dark Eastern European >Bartok-like modes, just like VROOOM and especially VROOOM VROOOM. Wrong. They played Red at each of the six King Crimson shows I saw between 1980 and 1985. However an offical live recording of Red was not released until now. David Beardsley dmb5561719 at aol dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 13:11:33 -0600 From: gdstrip at edge dot net (George and Dianne Stripling) Subject: Robert Fripp & Art Hello fellow King Crimson fans, (this includes you Toby:-), I've gotten some good info from this mailserver since I subscribed a couple of months ago, Thanks everyone! Now, on to several topics on my mind. This should illustrate my extreme love/hate relationship with Fripp/ King Crimson. 1. Bill Smith Studio's work on the DGM releases of late are phenominally compelling, beatiful, and revolutionary!!!!! I just can't get over the apparently metallic image on the cover of THRAK's hidden scene. I see a person's right half, from behind, on the left side, (the dark area is the body, the area of the 'metal' that appears cut away is his arm beside him). He seems to be looking into an alley, the 'corrosion' on the lower area of the 'metal' seems to be a path leading you in the allaey, winding around to the corner/ wall where King Crimson is printed. A squarish discoloration in the upper center could be a window. The gradient-coloring seems to hint at some highlights/ shadows. Within the 'path' are numerous haunting efigy's. This work was thrilling to 'discover', the 'pixelated' version on the back of B'BOOM was an interesting perspective as well. Another favorite is the VROOM artwork (My free poster from Possible Productions displays the image pretty nicely). How involved was Fripp in the choice of artwork for the CD's? I hope to get in contact with Mr. Smith as soon as I can think of a good excuse. :-) 2. The music/ performance is incredible. I love soundscapes! 3. B'BOOM is too damn expensive!! So are other Fripp/ Crimson products. I paid $26 plus TicketMaster (-who is the slave?) fees to see them soon in Atlanta, not too outrageous I guess considering other prices I have seen. This kind of Pink Floyd-Rolling Stone super-tour idiocy is pathetic, and a real turn-off to Fripp's otherwise seemingly austere ethic. I paid less than that for many killer shows, including Skinny Puppy, Sonic Youth, Beastie Boys, and the Butthole Surfers, not to mention the numerous Jazz events (some FREE!). Ian McKaye of Fugazzi refuses to play for more than $6 to $8, and sells CD's for very reasonable costs. ( Any FUGAZI t-shits,etc you may see are NOT OFFICIAL by the way as the band doesn't market any. ) An AWEsome Neurosis show recently was only $8!! They sold CD's and T-Shirts for $11!! It costs FAR-LESS than two dollars per CD to manufacture them, with artwork. Why use Virgin distribution? I found B'BOOM and VROOM alright. 4. Mr. Fripp's habit of re-releasing remixed versions of material can be fun, or a bummer of sorts. I appreciate his on going attention to his art and his willingness to revise decisions. It is only that every now and then, something throws me for a loop. I own the original U.S. release of T.of a P.P., by far superior in my opinion to the Definitive Edition. I am lucky enough to know this because of a controversial habit of mine, scouring used CD stores. I am NOT lucky enough however to have heard the original version of Discipline or Beat. I didn't have my microscope focused in on the correct portion of the liner notes to recognize that these were Definitive Edition releases. I am left to wonder what this material really sounds like, although I must admit these will do for now. :-) 5. Copyright exists NOT to protect the interests of artists but of U.S. corporate profits. Any one who beleives otherwise is seriosly mistaken and simply needs to review the history of copyright law. In my opinion, if I, as a member of a society's art community, acting individually or within a group, cannot comment on the dominant culture of our times with the use of machinery/ equipment that dominates our society, (i.e. samplers-computers), by using derivitives of AND borrowing from popular music, simply because of the dubious assumption of intruding on a persons intellectual property, then I am truly a prisoner of the consumer based mass media which continues to grow and consolidate. When Mr. Fripp postures himself and his associates as he did performing at the likes of "The Atrium of the World Finacial Centre" with the CGT, he only seves as an example of his own acknowledged "abrogation of responsibility by those in positions of power." It seems as though it's not so easily for the 'crimson' musician, like the alchemist and the jester, to escape the Kings Court he serves without first injuring both the King's as well as his own reputation, and perhaps more... I must admit I mainly like the Bruford/Fripp/Belew/Levin version and the latest formation of King Crimson, and look forward to the Nov. 12th show in Atlanta. Thanks for reading me if you have made it this far!! George Stripling http://edge.edge.net/~gdstrip [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 14:25:16 EST From: michael jeter Subject: Re: Thrak radio play Generally, I listen to public radio, WNYC(Am is NPR Talk, for those of not in New York; and FM: The traditional classical with a smattering of Jazz) Morning Edition and All Things Considered have used One Time and Walking on Air as bumper music, but I know that doeesn't really count. I have heard WNEW play People on Saturday Nights. Michael Jeter [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 03:28:29 +0800 From: caveport at singnet dot com dot sg (Peter Cave) Subject: Doctor Diamond >"Groon" was included in both "Young Person's" and "Frame by Frame" but >"Doctor Diamond" was only included (live) on "The Great Deceiver". Does >anybody know why, and if it was ever released as single or something? >Tefkros Symeonides. Well, Groon was the B side of the Cat Food single released from ITWOP. Doctor Diamond was never an officially released song. If you read the booklet in The Great Deciever set it is explained that it never fell into place as a piece of writing. I suspect it was tried out in concert as that KC lineup did most of it's composition while touring and playing live. It was probably included also so fans could hear some previously unreleased vocal material. cheers, Peter C. caveport at singnet dot com dot sg [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Ewing Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 10:17:54 -0700 Subject: Faulty .signature Christopher Beury writes: 'I repeat myself when I am distressed I repeat myself when I am distressed I repeat... I LIKE IT!'- Adrian Belew Ummm, that should be "I repeat myself when under stress". *************************************************************************** David A. Ewing Interleaf - Boulder Lab. dewing at avalanche dot com Boulder, Colorado *************************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 16:18:14 -0600 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: Ian McDonald and Bosnian Orphans News from Notes From the Edge: >CLASSIC ROCKERS TO HELP BOSNIAN ORPHANS >THE 90S FIRST SUPERGROUP TO PLAY IRVING PLAZA >LILY'S IN THE FIELD CONCERT SET FOR NOVEMBER 21, 1995 > >New York - On Tuesday, November 21, 1995, members of such classic rock bands >as THE MOODY BLUES, YES, RENAISSANCE, FOREIGNER, KING CRIMSON, ELECTRIC LIGHT >ORCHESTRA, PROCOL HARUM, and THE MOVE will join legendary singer PHOEBE SNOW >and CHEAP TRICK at New York's Irving Plaza for a marathon performance of new >and classic art rock the likes of which Manhattan hasn't seen since the days >of the Fillmore East. Filling master of ceremony shoes and offering a little >comedy relief during the course of the evening will be "Saturday Night Live" >alumnus and comedian Al Franken. The music and the message will all work >towards the benefit of the thousands of children orphaned by the tragic war in >Bosnia. > >*Lily's In The Field*: A Benefit Concert for Orphan Children in Bosnia grew >out of the collaboration between Renaissance lead singer Annie Haslam and Yes >lead guitarist Steve Howe. "We wanted to spread awareness concerning these >children and let everyone know that each one of us can make a difference, >whether it be a gift of money, or the gift of prayer," explains Haslam. "Steve >and I recorded 'Lily's In The Field' as a tribute to these innocent victims of >war in hopes that one day they will be free to run through the fields." The >hope is that the November concert will also further that effort. > >In addition to Yes' guitarist Steve Howe, Haslam has gathered Moody Blues >singer/guitarist Justin Hayward, Procol Harum lead singer/keyboardist Gary >Brooker, Electric Light Orchestra and the Move founder Roy Wood, Foreigner >and King Crimson's Ian McDonald, Phoebe Snow and Cheap Trick. Jimmy Vivino of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >the Conan O'Brien show will serve as musical director. The entire evening is >being organized by Annie Haslam and Larry Acunto of 20th Century Guitar >Magazine with Carl Freed of John Scher's Metropolitan Entertainment Group >promoting. Of course, McDonald is a "double count," both Foreigner and KC. :-) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 19:33:32 EST From: MICHAEL JETER Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #232 just a couple of notes: IMNSHO, the mellotron was the third most terrible thing to happen to music in the last thirty years(that is third in a very tight race with drum machines and samplers) if you want a sound that can be reproduced accoustically, do it. A drum machine cannot duplicate a perc instrument, whether one is playing electronic or acoustic drums. samplers shoul,d only be used if one is trying to take a decidedly non-musical sound(such as that of the electric fan that is blowing on me) and assign it to a pitch-system. A sample of a violin does not come close to being a violine(sorry, I am fruit for the sound of lead violin:-) and, If one tenth of the energy put into the development of the mellotron had been put into developing amplification which would allow a violin to really be heard in a rock context, amongst other things, the genius david cross might have stayed in KC a tad longer.(In THGD booklet, David explains that one of the main reasons he left was that he couldn't hear himself) Also, about Trey Gunn. Last I heard, he was playing the Warr guitar, Not the Chapman Stick(TM) has he returned to the Stick? Just another reminder. anyone going to the NYC show, esp. the 23rd, call me(718)372-8556. Finally, I plan to got to Jersey on Thanks Giving I don't want to have to come all the way back to Brooklyn, esp. if I am right around the corner from Penn Station. A requests: Does anyone have some floor space in Manhattan tyhey can loan me for a few hours after the show. Or, is anyone coming in from New Jersey who could give me a ride to Orange or Irvington? plaease call:-) thanks:-) Michael Jeter [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:21:58 -0500 From: Segall at aol dot com Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #232 Well, I finally found B'Boom. It took me visits to five or six stores before I hit pay dirt. It was $28, but hey, we've got a lot more than that invested in this Crimson thing by now. I disagree entirely with the assessment of one Crimsonic observer that B'Boom is a bogus album because the recording techniques are so good, it sounds just like a studio album. It sure sounds live and "imperfect" to me. However, I must say that I find it lacking in the choice of material -- which has obviously evolved well in the year since they recorded it. So there. --- Ken [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] GIG REVIEWS [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: David Ewing Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 10:03:14 -0700 Subject: REVIEW: Denver - Oct 27, 1995 King Crimson at the Paramount Theatre, Denver, Colorado - Friday Oct. 27, 1995 =========================== I saw Prince Scarlet and the Lads three nights ago. Here's the set list.... Soundscape Thela Hun Ginjeet Red Frame By Frame Dinosaur One Time VROOM VROOM Soundscape B'Boom THRAK Neurotica Three of a Perfect Pair Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream Stick Duet Elephant Talk Indiscipline ***** VROOM Coda - Marine 475 ***** Drum Trio (Bruford, Mastelloto, Belew) Talking Drum Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part II The show began with Fripp entering with the house lights still up. He started a Soundscape, the lights eventually went down and the rest of the band joined one-by-one (Bruford, Levin, Gunn, Mastelloto, Belew). They then launched into Thela Hun Ginjeet. The sound was a little muddy at first but improved greatly as the set went on. It was a strain to hear Levin's harmony vocal during "Frame By Frame". I was just across the aisle from the soundboard, so I was probably getting about as good a mix as anyone. There wasn't quite the same sense of excitement as seeing them in June (since it had been only four months, as opposed to 12 years, since we last saw them), but the concert itself was equally as enjoyable. Fripp was a lot more visible this time around. While there never were lone white spotlights on him, he was frequently hit by flashing spots, and there was more ambient light reaching him. I could see everything he was playing for virtually the entire show. One of the highlights of the show was the improv in the middle of THRAK. It was slow, brooding, dark, mysterious - the musicians were really listening to each other. Great stuff (which I'd love to hear them do more of). Fripp even played a trademark distorted, sustaining solo. The drum trio for the beginning of the second encore was fun as well. For you guitarists out there, Belew played the orange dayglo Strat for the first half or so of the show, and then switched to a gold Les Paul. Fripp played the sunburst Les Paul throughout, I believe. After Belew switched back to the Strat, he broke a string and was forced to return to the Les Paul. Trey Gunn is still very hard to pick out of the mix when everyone is playing. The stick duet leading into "Elephant Talk" was a little disappointing. It has more or less degenerated into "Dueling Sticks" -- Trey plays some hot riffs and Tony responds -- rather than a real improv. Tony was a monster, as always -- playing the bass, electric upright bass (with bow), stick, Funk Fingers. What a fabulous musician. It's always fun to hear (and SEE) Bruford play. He exudes such contagious joy. Mastelloto was rock steady, allowing Bruford considerable freedom to explore. Fripp was Fripp -- disciplined, precise, explosive. Belew was equally impressive - coaxing a variety of sounds from his equipment. Plus he was in fine voice (his ability to sing some of his vocals while playing a very rhythmically different guitar line is amazing). I just wish I could hear Gunn better. The audience was VERY responsive (just like last time). I'm still amazed that there are that many Crimson fans in Denver. The only negative was that Beavis and Butthead's dumber and more obnoxious cousins were sitting in front of my wife and me. These guys were a couple of drunk rednecks who must have thought that they were the show. At one point, Beavis (or was it Butthead?), used the seat as a trampoline. In yelling for them to come back for an encore, they started screaming in unison - "Don't send me to bed without any supper"). Of course, they found this so clever that they continued to yell it during the drum trio encore. How such ignorant, obnoxious louts could appreciate Crimson is beyond me. The California Guitar Trio were the opening act again (and started promptly at 8:00 -- don't be late). And once again they wowed the crowd with their Crafty guitary playing. They've extended the "21st Century Schizoid Man" quote in the opening number ("Bicycling to Afghanistan"?). The song ended with some beautiful country-tinged playing by Bert Lamms. Their set also included the first movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, Bach's Toccato and Fugue, and for an encore, the Ventures' "Walk Don't Run". They got a well-deserved standing ovation. Two Crimson tours in four months. Life is good. *************************************************************************** David A. Ewing Interleaf - Boulder Lab. dewing at avalanche dot com Boulder, Colorado *************************************************************************** [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 00:40:38 -0700 (MST) From: ecerb at indra dot com (Elaine C. Erb) Subject: Colorado Gigs What can I say but I seem to be making up for lost time! When I saw Crimson in the Spring in Denver for my first time I was blown away. That they would return so soon was sheer luck. That they could continue to improve just phenomenal!! Friday's show at the Paramount was well attended and definitely fueled by the early Halloween vibes in the air. The caveman waved his bone in the air to Dinosaur garnering big grins from the stage. But yes, despite Adrian's pleas, the smokers continued to light their joints up by the stage. Highlights included the stellar two sticks as Trey and Tony traded lines with Tony finally bringing in the notes of Elephant Talk slowly then steadily before tearing into it. Adrian again raced through Indiscipline only to get to the "To See.." line and repeat that a few times until finally coaxing "If I still liked it" out of the audience. Great approach as it allowed him to say "I did!" on his own unlike the shouters who drowned him out in the spring. And then - to see them again on Sunday in Colorado Springs!!! This time the set list included more of the slower songs so it was great to hear Matte Kudesai by this reinvigorated version of King Crimson. I find them leaving much more room for improv on this leg of the tour than in the spring! Indiscipline was delivered more slowly this time, good pacing, easier to follow the lyrics. The ticket gods shined on me after all and I miraculously got seats for both shows towards the front. Being in the center on Friday meant great acoustics and a perfect vantage point to observe all the facial expressions traded including Bruford sticking his tongue out at Levin!!! On Sunday, we were off next to the aisle but oh what an opportunity this afforded! The first encore this time was the percussive trio and who should appear next to me to watch the fun but Robert Fripp. What a treat to see him offstage and swaying to the music obviously enjoying himself! Back on stage for VROOOM, WoA, and LTiA. But it's hard to deny that one of the highlights for me after the show was meeting Tony Levin. He and Trey emerged from behind the stage on Friday and I only saw Tony on Sunday. Interesting comments included that he enjoys the Stick Duet as its the only moment in the show when he really doesn't know what's going to happen. He also mentioned that they like to fool with each other so that if he screws up a line he might raise an eyebrow to Trey as if Trey were the one to have messed up. When its really bad --- kick the amps and blame them!! Otherwise we had a great chat about cycling and how he actually travels with a bike on the Gabriel tour. The sad part was to hear that Tony's computer screen got smashed on the way into El Paso and he is without a computer for who knows how long!!! So let's all pray to those computer gods that this gets fixed soon. (And heave a sigh of relief it wasn't his double bass!!!) So to all who haven't seen the shows yet: smoke before you go inside, bring your earplugs, fasten your seat belts and have a great time!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Human speech is like a cracked kettle on which we tap crude rhythms for bears to dance to, while we long to make music that will melt the stars. -Flaubert [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 13:37:37 PST From: "Paul Sherrill" Subject: Second grader in the second row. My son went with me to the Berkeley Show. Being all of 9 years old, his comments... CGT: Did not like them. Boring KC: Really liked it. Got a kick out of the fact that Tony Levin was wearing ear plugs just like him. Also since we were second row center seat he had Fripp staring down at him between songs. He even tried to make Fripp crack a smile once or twice. So does this count as the youngest KC experience that will be remembered. My comments on the show: THRAK and SEDD are the highlights for me. They did a minimalist wandering improv that included great sounds from the bowed bass. Tony was bowing it just above the bridge to get the lowest possible growls from the bass. Also during Thrak Adrian was doing a midified piano sound but from our seats you could actually hear the plucking of the strings. I have a feeling that in this incarnation of KC Trey is doing many more of the Fripp like noises than I first suspected. This is similiar to my impression on the 80's formation where Adrian seemed to being doing many of the sounds that I thought were Fripp. Many times Trey and Fripp appear to be playing the same part. great show, paul [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] TIX [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: "Baxter, Jim" Subject: TICKET : For Sale - Nov. 9, Orlando, FL Date: Mon, 30 Oct 95 14:51:00 PST I have one ticket for sale for the King Crimson show on November 9 at the Tupperware Center in Orlando, FL. It is Section 3, Row Q, Seat 21. I am asking the cover price plus Ticketmaster service charge for a grand total of $32. Please send e-mail to cn1139 at coastalnet dot com or baxterj at wdni dot com if interested. Thanks, Jim [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:26:57 -0500 From: Roserm at aol dot com Subject: 4 tix available: Nov. 22, Longacre Theatre Row M. I purchased four tickets to the November 22 (Wednesday evening) show at Longacre Theatre. I puchased them at 9:20 AM on Sunday, Oct 22, and got Row M, Seats 14-20. On Monday, I found out that it will be impossible for me to attend this concert. Naturally, I am very upset. I have been a fan since the 70's and have seen them several times through numerous permutations (and have enjoyed every one for its own inherent reasons!). Anyway, it seems to me that someone out there would probably be able to use these tickets. I unfortunately, cannot give these away, but I will sell them to anyone interested, for the amount I paid: $50.00 each, plus $5.00 Telecharge fees. That is $55.00 each, or all four for $220.00. I would like to sell all four together, but will split them up, if necessary. Contact me via e-mail at either roserm at aol dot com OR rmrose at phantom dot com. I prefer to meet in NYC area, and exchange cash for tix, but will consider other arrangements (so make the story a good one :-) Also, I will not be in town at all that week, Nov. 19-24, so we will not be able to make exchange then, if you are coming from out of town. And BTW, tip o' the crumpled ole hat to Toby, for the finest newsletter out there. Thanks to you, and all the wonderfully informed fans of King Crimson, and intelligent music!!! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] The views expressed in Elephant Talk are those of the individual authors only. Elephant Talk is released for the personal use of readers. No commercial use may be made of the material unless permission is granted by the author. Toby Howard, Elephant Talk editor. http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/staff-db/toby-howard.html toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]