Elephant Talk #230 (as text)

18 October 1995

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 12:47:43 -0700
From: suture at portal dot ca
Subject: King Crimson vs. Mingus?
You know, It's seems to me that there is a tendency towards "train
spotting" within ET (Mr. Mister, "was it the Tubes drummer with XTC?" etc.)
But then I read Michael Jeter's post and thought: "I can't let that one go,
even if I SHOULD be addressing KC matters!"

Michael Jeter wrote:

"Mingus was one of the baddest musicians to have ever walked the face of
the earth."

I can only imagine three explanations for this remark:

1. "baddest" means "very good" and Mr. Jeter is a great fan of Mr. Mingus.

2. The NPR broadcast he heard consisted solely of extremely rare unreleased
material that was very weak (unlikely).

3. Mr. Jeter has cloth ears and has never heard Mingus' outstanding work
(of which there is plenty to be heard). I'd recommend Changes One and Two,
Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, Mingus X 4, and Ah Um. Even if one didn't
care for the music, to call him a "bad" musician would simply be asinine.

Now, on topic, I think that "Healthy Colours 1 to 4" are an utter waste of
time. Were these tapes sitting around waiting for an excuse to be released
or was it created anew for filler? I'd rather the "Essential Fripp and Eno"
be a COMPLETE package incorporating the entirety of "Pussyfooting and
Evening Song". That said, I still feel that "Let the Power Fall" is the
standout Fripp solo excursion.

And don't forget: "Visualize Whirled Peas"

Mark Mushet
Suture Productions

P.S. I'm starting a Ralph Towner mailing list (nothing as elaborate and
evolved as Toby's efforts!). If you're interested in getting on the list
for periodic updates vis-a-vis this amazing guitarist's activities e-mail
me at: suture at portal dot ca and include "Ralph" as your subject.

P.P.S. Does anyone know if Sylvian and/or Fripp are planning any western
Canadian solo dates?

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:04:49 -0400
From: KnKreutzer at aol dot com
Subject: Jamie Muir on Incus
Scott Tatina's very informative posting on Jamie Muir (E-T #229) indicated
that, in addition to Derek Bailey's *Dart Drug,* Muir played on two albums
with Derek Bailey's Music Improvisation Company - one on ECM and one on

Pages 232-233 of the 1992 edition of *The Penguin Guide to Jazz* list two
Company albums with Muir, but both are on Incus.  One is *Trios* (Incus
LP51, recording date 5/83), the other is *Music Improvisation Company,
1968/70* (Incus LP17).  The latter is referred to in the text as a
"pre-history" of Company, which was not actually founded until 1976.  A
brief glance at the ECM Records Web site shows no sign of any Company
albums or of Jamie Muir.

Was one of the two albums listed above originally on ECM?  Or was there a
third Company album with Muir that is now altogether out of print?

Eric Tamm's book on Robert Fripp (p. 62) also indicates that Muir worked
with the Battered Ornaments and Boris.  A tip o' the hat to anyone who can
tell us who THEY are!

Kenneth Kreutzer     Kent, Ohio
(KnKreutzer at aol dot com)

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 16:59:44 PDT
From: "W. Brennan Carley" <carley at instinet dot com>
Subject: Elephant Talk Post
>From: SoulAlone at aol dot com
>Subject: Daryl Hall
>Is there such a thing as a recording of "Exposure" on which Daryl Hall
>sings all the vocals? I've heard the rumors for SO long, and I'm not sure
>if it even exists.

Robert Fripp did record an album called Exposure, in (about) 1980.  It was
part of a three-part Fripp project which included a Daryl Hall album he
produced and a Peter Gabriel almbum he produced.  Daryl Hall sang on some
of the songs on Exposure, but not all.  Exposure is NOT typicall Darul Hall
music, but is a great album.

>From: Christian Hack <hack at pan-net dot de>
>Subject: Crimso music in French erotic movie!
>A few days ago I watched (accidentally, of course!) on TV here in Germany
>the so-called "soft-erotic"-movie "Emanuela" (from 1974 or 75/director Just
>Jaeckin). Did anyone ever notice that the music which is played throughout
>the movie is nothing else than a slightly varied arrangement (partly
>transposed) of LTiA, Part 2 played by a sort of pop-dance-orchestra?

Yes, Fripp noticed and sued the producers involved.  I'm not sure what
happened, but I think they paid up for copyright infringement.

W. Brennan Carley

Instinet Corporation, 875 Third Ave.,  New York, N.Y. 10022
Voice: (212) 310-9568     fax: (212) 593-8007
e-mail: carley at instinet dot com
Mail sent at 16:59:44 on 10/12/95

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 14:28:43 -0700
From: Rob MacCoun <maccoun at violet dot berkeley dot edu>
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #229
>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 14:10:04 -0400
>From: alan s cohen <i000371 at disch3 dot disc dot dla dot mil>
>Subject: various
>>I think the result of those sessions are on "The Essential Fripp and Eno,"
>>in Healthy Colours I-IV
>Actually, Healthy Colours is what Fripp and Eno recorded back in the late
>'70's and was never released. I recently Emailed DGM in England to try and
>find out what happened with their last collaberation. I was told that it
>wound up on Eno's CD-ROM Headcandy. Does anyone know if there's anything on
>it that is playable on a conventional cd player?

The first track of Headcandy has the multimedia data for running the
visuals; the remaining tracks can be played on an audio CD player.  Tracks
3 and 5 include Fripp, though his contributions are subtle, not pronounced.
IMHO, this falls far short of Eno's usual masterful work.  Some interesting
ambient dubbish textures, but it sounds derivative of the people who are
derivative of Eno -- the recent rave-based chill-out genre.  I assume that
ravers are the intended market; e.g., the visuals -- lots of undulating
mandala figures in primary colors -- are described on the box as
"psychedelic."  The packaging is very cheezy--looks like the set of Rowan
and Martin's "Laugh In" TV show circa 1967.  Visually, it can't compare to
Eno's video installations, but of course video technology and museum
installation settings provide a better medium than a desktop Pentium PC.
Perhaps I've set your expectations low enough that you'll be pleasantly

Rob MacCoun
Grad School of Pub Policy, Univ. of Calif. at Berkeley
2607 Hearst, Berkeley CA 94720, t/510-642-7518, f/510-643-9657

From: Bradley Stewart Cook <bsc0150 at tam2000 dot tamu dot edu>
Subject: Jars of Clay
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:42:27 -0500 (CDT)
Bob Keeley inquired about the Christian band called Jars of Clay.  The
reason you haven't heard of this band is because they are relatively new
and they just released the album, which Adrian Belew did indeed produce and
play on.  He only played on 2 (maybe 3 songs) and he did not play guitar.
He played mandolin on one song. (the song sucks.Folk meets Enigma and the
Benedictine Monks) and he played some nice cello on an other song.  I don't
own this album..my roommate does, so I haven't listened to it many times in
depth, but I would say the album really isn't worth the price.  It is
mostly folk-pop and only has a few semi-high points.  This band is the
latest "buzz" in Christian music, and you know how "buzzes" go....

Brad Cook
bsc0150 at tam2000 dot tamu dot edu

ps Bob, Check out a Christian band called DigHayZoos...good music, good
musicians...send me some email

Now back to something relevant. :)

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 17:56:42 -0400
From: Otherroad at aol dot com
Subject: Headcandy
In reply to the query about Eno's CD-ROM, HEADCANDY, I do have that and I
do confirm that all the music can be played on a regular CD player.  I have
played it in both my computer and my regular CD player.  Just skip track

The track information is as follows.

1.  CD-ROM material
2.  Castro Haze  (5:50)
3.  Manila Envelope  (7:30)
4.  Spunk Worship  (6:51)
5.  Beast  (5:55)
6.  Alloy Balcony & Jets Overhead  (11:14)

All tracks written and recorded by BRIAN ENO, except tracks 3 & 5, which
were written by BRIAN ENO and ROBERT FRIPP.  Additional musicians: Richard
Bailey - Drums on 2&4; Robert Fripp - Trumpet Guitar on 3 and Guitars on 5;
Geoffrey Oreyama - Percussion on 3.

As for the CD-ROM itself.  I do find it to be quite intriguing.  It's not
very interactive, though, as one might say about Peter Gabriel's EXPLORA 1.
Rather I would compare it to an installation in a museum of modern art.
So, if you appreciate modern art, you would appreciate HEADCANDY.


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Pritchard <pritchar at haas dot berkeley dot edu>
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #229
In ET v95 #229 somebody mentioned the use of a poor imitation of LTiAII in
Emanuelle - indeed Fripp knew about this and in fact went as far as sueing
the film producers (I think sucessfully) at the time - an early hint of
Fripp's views on where copyright resides!

From: matt at infopros dot com (Matthew F. McCabe)
Subject: Jars of Clay
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 23:39:36 +0000 (GMT)
>From: Robert Keeley <KEELEY at PHYSICS dot HOPE dot EDU>

>I was paging through RELEASE magazine the other day, a magazine devoted to
>Contemporary Christian music, and found an ad for the self titled debut
>album by the group JARS OF CLAY.  There at the bottom of the ad reads
>"Produced by Adrian Belew and Jars of Clay."
>Is anyone aware of
>Belew's involvement with this group or what this album sounds like?

As best as I can remember Belew only produced one song on the album and
played some instruments other than guitar....violin maybe?  The music
sounds nothing like Crimson.  I didn't listen to the tape long because the
style/music/songs didn't catch my attention.  It's acoustic guitar
orientated with lots of vocal harmonies and programmed drum beats.
Basically it's nice, middle-of-the-road, pop music.  The recording is
really clean and well produced.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the album...but that's just me (and the
singer's voice ain't that great either!!  IMO).


matt at infopros dot com

Matthew F. McCabe                InfoPros
matt at infopros dot com                6060 Sunrise Vista Dr., Ste. 1825
phone (916)725-5558              Citrus Heights, CA  95610
fax   (916)726-8223
       "The online communication firm."

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 19:20:29 -0500
From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson)
Subject: Slow fade ins (Elephant-talk digest v95 #229)
Mark Sullivan discussed the slow fade-ins in Fripp's work like "1999."
Other notable examples of such fade-ins occur in King Crimson's "The
Devil's Triangle" and "Trio."

I always wondered why Fripp did this, too.  I found it quite annoying.
After experiencing KC live for the first time this summer, I understood.
These low levels are designed to cause you to listen to the music at the
correct volume, at least, the volume Fripp wants you to hear them at.  If
you have the beginning of a piece at a very soft but audible level, then
when it really gets going, it'll be as LOUD as Fripp intends it (and I
believe he likes it QUITE loud).

When I listen to the soundscapes in this fashion, they are absolutely
mesmerizing.  At a loud volume, the music has an almost hallucinatory
effect--it overcomes all of my senses, and my entire being is focused on
the music.  It is really quite wonderful.

The problem is that this is not a very practical way of producing an album.
Most people are limited by less-than-ideal listening conditions, not to
mention a stereo system that probably can't HANDLE the volumes Fripp
desires.  If I listened to this stuff as loud as Fripp wants me to (which I
would like to experience, sometime), I'd blow out my speakers, add to my
already disturbing level of tinnitis, and surely annoy many people around

So, Robert, thanks for trying, but consider those of us who do not live in
a perfect world.  A final note--I LOVE "A Blessing of Tears."  This is some
of the most moving music I have ever heard in my life.  And it's relatively
audible right from the start!  8^)

Scott T. Anderson
Gustavus Adolphus College
sanderso at gac dot edu

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 01:25:11 0500
From: tonyola <tonyola at shadow dot com>
Subject: (no subject)
Mike Dickson (mike at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) recently said...

> You aren't wrong about anything you've said [about Peter Sinfield's
> 'Still' album], but you missed out the bit about the hopelessly
> pretentious lyrics which are so bad it really distracts from anything
> decent in the music. (Which is rare enough) Anyone who writes 'I need to
> suck the breasts of time and freeze its milk in ink' has something of a
> problem.

Mike is absolutely right - Sinfield's lyrics on 'Still' are ghastly.
However, early 70s progressive rock is just chock full of bad, pretentious
lyrics.  Genesis' 'Lamb Lies Down on Broadway' has wonderful music but also
has an utterly incomprehensible libretto (when one has to refer to an
album's lyrics as a "libretto", perhaps that indicates where the problem
lies).  Most Yes albums - especially 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' - have
strange, cryptic lyrics.  I won't even go into Peter Hammill's lyrics on
early Van Der Graaf Generator albums.  Need I mention Procol Harum?  There
are lots more examples, but I won't try the patience of ET readers.  I'm
sure each one of us could easily add to the list.

Please don't think that I'm defending Sinfield or 'Still'.  It's just that
this particular genre of music (which I love dearly) seemed to invite
tortured metaphors, vague artsy references, big words, and unnecessarily
florid language.  I don't try to interpret this stuff when I listen to
progressive music - I just treat the vocals as yet another instrument in
the mix.

 FISHBOY <AACUNZO at ccmail dot sunysb dot edu> asked...

> Can anyone out there give an opinion on what is a good introduction to
> Fripp's work outside King Crimson?

For starters, check out Fripp's first solo album 'Exposure', which was
released in 1979 and is readily available on CD.  There's an incredible
variety of material on this record - (sort of) straight rock'n'roll ("You
Burn Me Up I'm a Cigarette"), Red-ish instrumentals, reworked songs from
the first two Peter Gabriel albums ("Exposure" and "Here Comes The Flood"),
atmospheric mood music, and stuff that will make your hair stand on end
("Disengage" and "NY3").  Guest vocals by Daryl Hall, Peter Hammill, and
Terre Roche.  Lots of great guest musicians (Phil Collins, Brian Eno, Tony
Levin, Jerry Marotta, Barry Andrews, Narada Michael Walden).  All in all,
an essential record for any Crimhead's collection.

.Chris Van Valen (vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu.) asked...

> I have noticed no mention of Earthbound. Is this also not available? I
> know that I've never seen it.

I've only seen this album once - a British import LP in a roommate's record
collection in the early 1970s (Boy, that dates me, doesn't it?).  This was
a single, non-gatefold album with a black cover, silver lettering, and no
pictures or illustrations.  It was an official issue by Island Records that
was never released in the US.  Decent music recorded live in 1971 in
Orlando, Florida, but let down by horrible recording quality.  According to
the liner notes, the recording was done on a cassette machine in the back
of a VW bus - and it shows.  Cassette technology was only a few years old
then and was still very primitive - anybody who wanted to record with any
semblence of quality in 1971 used a reel-to-reel deck.  I've heard
contemporary bootlegs that sounded miles better than this.  I have never
seen 'Earthbound' on CD, and I've done a hell of a lot of digging for
obscure treasures in CD stores since 1986.

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 19:38:36 -0500
From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson)
Subject: Pat Mastelotto on The First Day???
In ET #229, Thomas J. Mathews said:

"Mastelotto drums superbly on _The First Day_ which seems to be (?) his
first outing with Fripp."

I don't think Pat played drums on "The First Day"... according to my liner
notes it is Jerry Marotta, who was SUPPOSED to be the lone drummer in the
new KC before the double trio concept materialized and Bruford came back
into the fold.  So the question remains... how did Mastelotto end up in

Scott T. Anderson
Gustavus Adolphus College
sanderso at gac dot edu

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 19:43:58 -0500
From: sanderso at gac dot edu (Scott T. Anderson)
Subject: KC in porn movies
Sorry to make so many posts to one issue... I should really read the whole
thing and take notes, then post about everything at once.  Well, I am just
procrastinating in preparing for the GRE (which I haven't done at all, and
it's in 2 days...), so cut me some slack....


Christian Hack mentioned the appearance of modified versions of "Larks'
Tongues in Aspic Part 2" from the "Emmanuel" porn-film series.  I haven't
seen these films (really, Toby, I haven't!), but Fripp mentions this in the
Great Deceiver booklet, something to the effect that it has been brought to
his attention that the music was used, though without his prior knowledge
or approval.  Sorry I can't quote it directly... I think my booklet is back
at home.

Okay, I'm shutting up now (maybe)....

Scott T. Anderson
Gustavus Adolphus College
sanderso at gac dot edu

From: tlkalka at mailbox dot syr dot edu
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 20:49:35 EDT
Subject: Earthbound, CGT
1. A CD release of Earthbound is forthcoming.  Earthbound II has been
promised for 1996.

2. A contributor commented that he found The CGT's Shizoid Man break to be
cute, but not really entertaining.  I can only reply that the break did not
appear in all the performances, although in Buffalo there seemed to be a
hint of VROOOM in one of the tunes.  Sorry you didn't like 'em - as far as
I can tell they've been blowing a lot of people away.


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 21:41:14 -0400
From: MikeTEACHR at aol dot com
Subject: elephant talk post
Hey there sports fans!

I got a hold of an extra copy of the Fripp: Careful with that Axe Japanese
import Laserdisc. I'm will to sell fro substantially less than market value
of $60-$70. Please email me ASAP as it will not last. A great disc;
interview and CD quality soundbites of Fripp, Crafties, older KC, etc.

(Insert perfunctory cool quote here)
Mike     miketeachr at aol dot com

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 23:02:32 -0400
From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott)
Subject: talking drum on B'boom
This particular version of the song has got to be my most favorite KC song
of all. Trey Gunn's stick playing is incredible! I can only imagine what it
must have been like to witness this performance live and in person.

Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 23:05:32 -0400
From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott)
Subject: more than just Schiziod Man on GCD
I must mention that other pre-73-'74 material exists on TGD, namely Catfood
and Peace (a theme) from In the Wake of Poseidon.  well it's goodbye.

From: mike lockyer <mike dot lockyer at octacon dot co dot uk>
Subject: RE : Indiscipline Live
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 06:29:52 +-100
>	From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
>	Subject: KC Gig Review  -   Tokyo
>	Indiscipline is always appreciated by the audience. It's a song that you
>	could tell whether KC is in good condition or not. The blank/no-sound
>	(short) spaces inbetween various musical phrases are the key to creating
>	high tension which makes this song a very unique product. Especially, the
>	spaces such as the one right before and after "I wish you were here to see
>	it" and "I like it" in the end. A half-second or even a quarter of a second
>	make big difference when these blank spaces are concerned. So far, for me
>	Oct 2 gig had the best tension in Indiscipline. The song title rightly
>	imply the nature of this music piece. Discipline is probably the only
>	solution to achieving such a high tension in music. I've seen it live how
>	difficult it is. Even for such talented players/artists like KC.

My thanks to Tom Ohsawa for the atmospheric and informative reviews.

For those of us living in the remoter parts of the UK there are a real

I particularly agree with his comments re Indiscipline as it has always
been one of my favourite tracks live and a song the band seem to like
playing (I even saw RF laughing during a performance at Oxford Polytechnic
in early 80s)

The Oxford Polytechnic gig does not seem to be mentioned in the gig list in
Young Person's.... (any one else remember it ?)

Any one have any idea of future (old or new) KC live releases ??

Thanks for a great list Toby

Mike Lockyer

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 09:31:27 BST
Subject: Re: Fripp's recent liner notes
From: Phil dot Kime at ed dot ac dot uk (Phil Kime)
Mark Sullivan says:

Mark> Couldn't let that description of the BLESSING OF TEARS liner notes as
Mark> "contrived exposition" go by without a comment.
Mark> [...]
Mark> So I would argue that there is *musical* justification for the personal
Mark> matters discussed in them; and I
Mark> commend Fripp for having the personal courage to reveal himself so openly.
Mark> At the risk of offending the original poster, perhaps it helps to have had
Mark> some of the sorts of life experiences he's talking about.

Personally, I have always been one to defend Fripp's outpourings against
those who consider them pretentious but of late, I find them irrelevant and
straining the boundaries of credulity. Whether one has had the experiences
or not, I would hardly consider them musically relevant. Death can effect
your music, yes, but in ways irrelevant to the listener. One can sympathise
with him and possibly see how it may have effected his life and,
resultantly, his music. I fail to see why that is of any relevance to an
audience concerned with music. I do not see it as a strength or a weakness
in the man: merely an irrelevance. The talk Fripp took part in on IRC was
particularly pointless. Being an intelligent man, he is aware of the sort
of person and mentality to be expected on such things but chose to be
cryptic and epigramatic to almost comic proportions. It is trivial to
appear intelligent and enigmatic by being terse and stylised in his
position and considerably more difficult to do so by being lucid. For me,
the line at which his comments passed from being enigmatic to contrived has
been crossed and I feel that I have held on longer than many. Fripp's music
is quite brilliant but that does not mean one has to overestimate his
extra-mural competetences.

=                    Phil Kime (Phil dot Kime at ed dot ac dot uk)                   =
=             Centre for Cognitive Science/Dept of Philosophy         =
=                         Edinburgh University                        =

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:23:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Lockwood <fl at io dot org>
Subject: Tamms: Fripp Book Unavailable?
I've been trying to get the Tamms/Fripp book through the usual channels
(World's Biggest Books in Toronto) and have been told that is is out of
print and will no longer be available.

Does anyone have a copy or access to one that I could purchase?


Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:05:19 EST
From: "Segal, Adam" <a dot segal at smtphost dot elsevier dot com>
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 &229
         Two comments

         To the person who wanted to know which Fripp (non-KC) album
         to start with, I would recommend Exposure. It has a little
         bit of everything from KC-like pieces to League of Gentlemen
         like pieces to Fripp and Eno pieces (Water Music/Here Comes
         the Flood). And a cast of stars (Daryl Hall, Peter Gabriel,
         Phil Collins, Peter Hammill, Eno, etc).

         Next I would probably recommend the League of Crafty
         Guitarists Live album (although any of their albums will do,
         they are all reasonably good, but interchangable). The League
         of Gentleman album is excellent dance music, and takes off
         from where Under Heavy Manners started (also recommended).
         God Save the Queen is a continuation of the Fripp and Eno
         work, but unfortunately the best documentation of this period
         of Fripp's work comes from bootlegs, as GSTQ does not include
         any of the solos, only the basic loops. A compilation of some
         of GSTQ and LOG was released as God Save the King. I would
         avoid Let the Power Fall which I find tedious. The Fripp and
         Eno albums are excellent, but extremely ambient; EG records
         released them as a double cassette at one point. The Lady or
         the Tiger (Fripp and Toyah) is an oddity and worth listening
         to, but it is primarily a story album with music, rather than
         the other way around.

         To the person who "discovered" that LTIA 2 was used in
         Emanuelle, I would just point out that this has been known to
         Fripp for a long time. Crimso got no credit for the music.
         Fripp sued them and received a settlement. This is detailed
         in an article he wrote for Musician magazine on the topic of
         royalties and bootlegs and where his quote about live
         performance and virginity comes from. Somebody out there
         probably knows exactly when it was published but I don't off
         the top of my head. The entire article was also printed on
         the back of the jacket for the KC bootleg Indisciple Mining

         aesi (is that a short enough sig for you?)

From: Jeremy Lakatos <jeremy at grove dot ufl dot EDU>
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #229
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:24:41 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Christian Hack <hack at pan-net dot de>
> Subject: Crimso music in French erotic movie!
> A few days ago I watched (accidentally, of course!) on TV here in Germany
> the so-called "soft-erotic"-movie "Emanuela" (from 1974 or 75/director Just
> Jaeckin). Did anyone ever notice that the music which is played throughout
> the movie is nothing else than a slightly varied arrangement (partly
> transposed) of LTiA, Part 2 played by a sort of pop-dance-orchestra?  I do
> not know if there are any credits for Crimso. Was this topic ever discussed
> or does anybody know something about these facts?

I read in the article where Fripp cries out against bootlegging that they
did this, didn't credit Fripp, didn't pay royalties. He took them to court
and got the royalties.

I've wondered about this since I read that article. How in the HELL do you
get LTiA in a soft-porn flick. It ain't that romantic or erotic...  sort of
the opposite, I tend to think.

-- If you can tolerate amateur poetry enough to do a SUCK/NOT SUCK poll,
   PLEASE check out http://grove.ufl.edu/~jeremy. (jeremy at grove dot ufl dot edu)

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:39:55 +0100
From: eolsson at mithras dot cologne dot de (Eric Olsson)
Subject: Crimso music in French erotic movie!, what I like
>A few days ago I watched (accidentally, of course!) on TV here in Germany
>the so-called "soft-erotic"-movie "Emanuela" (from 1974 or 75/director Just
>Jaeckin). Did anyone ever notice that the music which is played throughout
>the movie is nothing else than a slightly varied arrangement (partly
>transposed) of LTiA, Part 2 played by a sort of pop-dance-orchestra?  I do
>not know if there are any credits for Crimso. Was this topic ever discussed
>or does anybody know something about these facts?

Yeah, I've heard about this. Though I find it difficult to picture RF
watching soft-porn movies, he apparently noticed it too, and he also
noticed there are no credits for KC. I think he wrote something about it in
the Great Deceiver liner notes. I haven't got a copy of it here, maybe
someone who does would like to post a summary. I seem to remember other KC
tunes showing up in other soft-porn movies, but then that's probably
because I turn the sound off and crank the stereo when watching them.
Sometimes I accidentally have a beer too.

                           Eric Olsson   -->  eolsson at mithras dot cologne dot de

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 19:12:17 +0100 (NFT)
From: "C. Kazzer Anglistik" <kazzer at rzaix340 dot rz dot uni-leipzig dot de>
Hi, all,

In the last issues alan s cohen <i000371 at disch3 dot disc dot dla dot mil> wrote:

>Actually, Healthy Colours is what Fripp and Eno recorded back in the late
>'70's and was never released. I recently Emailed DGM in England to try and
>find out what happened with their last collaberation. I was told that it
>wound up on Eno's CD-ROM Headcandy. Does anyone know if there's anything on
>it that is playable on a conventional cd player?

The PC version is fully playable on any conventional CD player.  Only the
track listing doesn't seem to agree with the order in which the pieces
appear on the CD.


Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Russell Fischer <rfischer at wahoo dot sjsu dot edu>
Subject: bb & pm interview
	For you completists out there, there is a rather good interview
with Mssrs. Bruford and Mastelotto in the latest issue of _Talking Drums_,
an up and coming drum magazine published in Maryland.  The piece touches on
a number of topics covered in the recent _Modern Drummer_ cover story
(Nov. 1995, for those who don't yet know) such as how Mastelotto got the
gig with KC and how the drummists view their respective contributions to
the new Crimson.  There are nice bits about how "When I Say Stop, Continue"
was recorded, the meaning of the new roach-like Crimson logo, plus short
talks with Joe Montineri (who built Pat's kit) and KC's drum tech, Ian
Gault, none of which are covered in the MD article.

	Other drummists and percussionists covered in the issue are Omar
Hakim, Paul Wertico, Luis Conte, and the drummist/percussionist duo from
that oh-so-soulful guy, Michael Bolton (gentlemen, fire those

	To inquire about this issue (Vol. 3, No. 2), write to

Talking Drums
P.O. Box 1490
Severna Park, MD 21146

	The cost of a single issue is $3.95. Northern California residents
can probably pick up the issue at Drum World in San Francisco (last time I
checked, though, Drum World tacked on a couple of bucks to the cover
price). You can call Drum World at (415)334-7559.

	I am in no way affiliated with _Talking Drums_ or Drum World (thank


Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 15:56:21 PST
From: "Hoard, Chris" <chris dot hoard at ingram dot com>
Subject: Wetton and Lake Jazziz Interview/UK Reunion
     Just to let you know--Jazziz has an article on "forgetting the 70s"
     a series celebrating prog-rock, and in the current issue Wetton and
     Lake are featured prominently, and the UK reunion is mentioned.

     A friend of mine recently (who rarely gets excited about "progrock"
     anymore, came accross the Italian release of UK live in Cleveland in
     '78 and played it for me -- an unbelievable performance all around,
     and the band played a lot of music with Holdsworth which either never
     made it onto either album, or was re-arranged.  This performance was
     as frightenning and inspired as anything I've heard from 'The Great
     Deceiver," although admittedly the focus of the music was Jobson's
     keyboard violin--but as a devoted Crimsoid, I have to say it's a must
     listen and the quality of the recording is on the order of 'Great

     Having spoken with Allan Holdsworth and his wife about the UK Reunion,
     there is a potential disagreement about Allan participating brewing.
     After thinking it over, apparently Wetton and Jobson approached Allan
     to just contribute a few solos, whereas Allan is very interested in
     the project, but likely would not participate if he's to be limited to
     a role only as a peripheral studio musician/guest.  Allan's point was,
     the inspired chemistry of the first band worked because the group
     essentially had four equal participants--if at least three of those
     four are not involved, it's just Danger Money redux.  It's a shame if
     because of this AH does not get to participate, and of course if he
     does not, I'm afraid we'll be in for more Asia, rather than UK...
     Wetton management has been in contact with Holdsworth's -- and
     Holdsworth is very keen to participate.  But I think if it means
     flying him to New York to record solos for a couple of days, he
     rightfully is asking himself, "why bother?"


Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 22:48:02 -0400
From: Earthpots at aol dot com
Subject: Jars of Clay
This is in reponse to Bob Keeley's inquiry about Jars of Clay, a new band
produced by Adrian Belew, yes the one we know and love. Thanks for bringing
them up, Bob- I was waiting for someone to comment so I could :) Since I'm
the brother of the founding member of Jars of clay, I'll elaborate and give
the "inside scoop", briefly if possible. Jars formed at Greenville College
in IL less than 2 years. After winning a national contest, they were
heavily courted by nearly every CCM record company in existence. They
signed the deal with Essential ( a division of Brentwood and distributed by
Zomba) and cut their first non-indie release, self-titled, in May of
'95. They were very fortunate to have Adrian work with them and met him
through his neice who they know from church in Nashville. Since Adrian now
lives in Nashville, he took some time out and helped the guys produce their
first major-label album release at his studio with Noah Evans (he also
played bass and mandolin on Liquid, which is to be released early '96 as a
single). Since then, it's had two #1 hits on the Christian charts, #2 album
on the Christian charts for 7 weeks straight, and has been in the Billboard
Top 200 and the Heatseekers chart. They will be touring with Michael
W. Smith in 1996, playing for 10,000 - 12,000 seater-venues per night. The
album is being released for secular distribution on Oct. 24, and all of
your typical chain "mall" record stores, and rackjobbers, etc. will have
the cd. Yes, they are Christians. No, they don't try to force their
personal relationships with God on anyone else. And no, I'm not sure if
Adrian is a Christian, he'd have to answer that one himself. But, I doubt
he'd dismiss any music because of the religion of the band members, and I'd
hope that none of the ET readers would either. Jars are of a new brand of
music, that cannot be compared to anything else. They use powerful, dense 4
part vocal harmonies, NO electric guitars, 2 acoustic guitars, lots of
orchestral instruments, meaningful lyrics and analogies, fast drum beats
and ethnic percussion, and a few samples like Gregorian chants. Mix all
this with four incredibly talented musicians, all under the age of 22, and
you have Jars of Clay. Open those minds wide and check them out! :) Any
personal email questions and discussion are more than welcome. I run a
newsletter for them to which 600 people are subscribed, feel free to join

-Andy Lowell, KC collector of 9 years, ET subscriber of 2 years- my first
post ever!

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 23:06:21 -0500
From: jdehm at gold dot interlog dot com (JD Murray)
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #229
In ET#229, alan s cohen <i000371 at disch3 dot disc dot dla dot mil> wrote:

>>I think the result of those sessions are on "The Essential Fripp and Eno,"
>>in Healthy Colours I-IV
>Actually, Healthy Colours is what Fripp and Eno recorded back in the late
>'70's and was never released. I recently Emailed DGM in England to try and
>find out what happened with their last collaberation. I was told that it
>wound up on Eno's CD-ROM Headcandy. Does anyone know if there's anything on
>it that is playable on a conventional cd player?

That is indeed sad news. I too had read the snippet in Rolling Stone with
Fripp going on about working with Eno and how Eno can play a funky bass and
still uses tags saying 'hit this key'.  Too bad their getting together only
resulted in two tracks on Head Candy: Manila Envelope and Beast.  I was
hoping for so much more.

The Wintel version of Head Candy has audio tracks that can be played on an
audio CD player.  The bad news; the running time of the audio/visual part
is shorter than the Mac version.

Well,maybe Eno and Fripp have a few tracks locked in the vault for future


All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.            -Poe

Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 11:46:51 -0400
From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott)
Subject: Wetton concert
The Wetton concert last night featured just JW and an acoustic guitar and a
grand piano. I estimate 40-75 people made the show and I would guess most
were Asia fans.  Anyway, JW played 3 Crimson tunes, which I thought to be
the best performances of the night. He did Book of Saturday, Easy Money and
Starless and Bible Black.  Easy Money was pretty intersting, JW was going
pretty good on an acoustic solo and he was really hitting some bass notes,
but he calmed down when the sound system started to go wacky. (Although the
sound guys delayed the start of the show to get everything right, I thought
the sound quality was pretty bad) He also sang the Original lyrics ("Well I
thought my heart would break when you doubled up the stake." at the
beginning and then the tradition live lyrics "Well I argued with the judge
but the bastard wouldn't budge cuz he caught me licking fudge..."  My
overall impression was that although the sound quality was poor, JW forged
ahead withoutcomplaint. His voice is as good as it ever was and itreally
carried the show.  

well it's goodbye..

Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:28:07 -0400
From: DnTMan at aol dot com
Subject: Crimson Videos
Stickers & Crimheads:

I recently procured a 2nd VCR which means I can now copy some of my vids.
If anyone's interested I have the following:

Three of a Perfect Pair (live in Japan)
Thela Hun Gingeet & Elephant Talk live on "Fridays" TV show
Bruford & the Beat
Larks Tongues Pt 1 live on Beat Club (German TV show) w/ J. Muir!
- and other non-KC stuff (Genesis, Marillion, Yes)

 The format is VHS and I wish to trade for other prog videos or rare audio

- Tom

Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 18:13:43 GMT
From: Russell Whitworth <Russell at anchorag dot demon dot co dot uk>
Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #228
Gary Wright writes:

> I
> think it would be interesting to see someone compile a list which would
> reflect other music that was popular or released in the same time-frame
> as some of the older King Crimson albums.  The purpose of this exercise
> would be to demonstrate how far ahead of their time the band has been
> (and continues to be) relative to their peers.  (Or at least other
> popular musicians.)

Glad to help (a little).  I've mentioned Ian MacDonald's "Revolution in the
Head - The Beatles' Recordings and the Sixties" before on ET.  It has an
appendix of music and current affairs month by month covering the career of
The Beatles.  The music listed is that considered by the author to be most
important (not necessarily the biggest sellers), and it relates to the UK
rather than USA. Three entries include reference to KC:

November 1969

The Beatles:
Starr begins recording Sentimental Journey.  6 US: Come
Together/Something.  7 UK: The Wedding Album.  22 Come
Together/Something peaks at No 4 in UK chart.  25 Lennon returns
his MBE in protest against Biafra, Vietnam and 'Cold Turkey
slipping down the chart.'  29 Come Together/Something tops the
US chart (one week).

Archies: Sugar Sugar.  Christie: I'm Gonna Make You Mine.
Hollies: He Ain't Heavy He's My Brother.  Fleetwood Mac: Oh
Well.  Upsetters: Return of Django.  Bowie: Space Oddity.
Beatles: Someting.  Plastic Ono Band: Cold Turkey.  Tremeloes:
Number One.  Jimmy Cliff: Wonderful World Beautiful People.  Joe
Cocker: Delta Lady.  Stevie Wonder: Yester-me Yester-you
Yesterday.  Junior Walker: What Does It Take.  Kenny Rogers:
Ruby Don't Take Your Love To Town.

Beatles: Abbey Road.  Cash: At San Quentin.  Various: Motown
Charbusters Vol 3.  Led Zeppelin: II.  King Crimson: In The
Court of the Crimson King.  Ten Years After: Ssssh.  Fleetwood
Mac: Then Play On.  Bruce: Songs for a Tailor.  Pink Floyd:
Ummagumma.  Rolling Stones: Through the Past Darkly.

Current Affairs:
1-6 Sex Fair in Copenhagen.  5,15 Anti-apartheid protestors
fight with police during South African rugby tour of Britain.
14-24 Apollo 12 moon mission.  24 Lt William Calley charged with
ordering massacre at My Lai (March 1968).  27 The Rolling Stones
play Madison Square Gardens.

May 1970

The Beatles:
8 UK: Let It Be (LP).  11 US: The Long and Winding Road.  13
World premier of Let It Be film in New York.  No Beatles
attend.  18 US: Let It Be (LP).

Greenbaum: Spirit in the Sky.  England World Cup Squad: Back
Home.  Dana: All Kinds of Everything.  Simon and Garfunkel:
Bridge Over Troubled Water.  Stevie Wonder: Never Had a Dream
Come True.  Frijid Pink: House of the Rising Sun.  Move:
Brontosaurus.  The Band: Rag Mama Rag.  Christie: Yellow River.
Moody Blues: Question.  Supremes: Up the Ladder to the Roof.
Jackson Five: ABC.

Simon and Garfunkel: Bridge Over Troubled Water.  McCartney:
McCartney.  Beatles: Let It Be.  Soundtrack: Easy Rider.
Williams: Greatest Hits.  Jethro Tull: Benefit.  Black Sabbath:
Black Sabbath.  Creedence Clearwater Revival: Willy and the Poor
Boys.  Various: Fill Your Head With Rock.  Led Zeppelin: II.
King Crimson: In the Wake of Poseidon.

Current Affairs:
4 Four students shot dead by National Guard during riots at Ohio
State University.  5 Furore in USA over invasion of Cambodia.
28 Maoist students riot in Paris.

June 1970

The Beatles:
13 The Long and Winding Road tops the US chart (two weeks).
18 McCartney is 28.

UK Pop:
Emerson, Lake and Palmer form.  7 The Who perform Tommy at the
Metropolitan Opera House.

Christie: Yellow River.  Mungo Jerry: In the Summertime.  England
World Cup Squad: Back Home.  Moody Blues: Question.  Tom Jones:
Daughter of Darkness.  Ray Stevens: Everything is Beautiful.  Mr
Bloe: Groovin' with Mr Bloe.  Jackson Five: ABC.  Beach Boys:
Cottonfields.  Marvin Gaye: Abraham, Martin and John.  Fleetwood
Mac: The Green Manalishi.  Arrival: I will Survive.  Free: All
Right Now.

Beatles: Let It Be.  Simon and Garfunkel: Bridge over Troubled
Water.  McCartney: McCartney.  Who: Live at Leeds.  CSNY:
Deja-Vu.  Soundtrack: Easy Rider.  Jethro Tull: Benefit.  King
Crimson: In the Wake of Poseidon.  Led Zeppelin: II.  Ten Years
After: Cricklewood Green.  Elton John: Elton John.  Joni
Mitchell: Ladies of the Canyon.

Current Affairs:
19 Conservatives defeat Labour in general election.  Edward
Heath becomes prime minister.

. my conclusion is that there were a LOT of influential groups
around in 1969/70 - quite a remarkable period for music.

There is one other excellent KC reference in the Glossary:

"Mellotron.  Cabinet containing a bank of tape-loops of wind,
string, and brass tones played by a keyboard, each key
triggering a tape of one pre-recorded note in a particular
timbre.  Invented by a Birmingham firm in 1963, it was used by
logal group The Moody Blues and later, and most famously, by
King Crimson on the title track of their album In The Court of
the Crimson King.  John Lennon claimed to own the first
Mellotron ever sold."

Incidentally, I'm still convinced (until someone comes up with
evidence to the contrary) that the author Ian MacDonald is not
the King Crimson member Ian McDonald - mainly on the grounds of
spelling!  And yet... my copies of Exposure (vinyl and CD)
include thanks to "Ian MacDonald" as one of the artists involved
but not appearing.

Bye for now,

Russell Whitworth.

"Yes, but what _kind_ of Dinosaur?  That's the problem."
                                  - Stewart Whitworth, then aged 4
                      (specially shortened and customised ET sig!)

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 02:44:31 +0100 (MET)
From: Per Andersson <ppan at celsiustech dot se>
Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #229 (Eatrthbound on CD)
Hi all!

Earthbound IS available on CD, but depending on how you look at it.
There is a Japanese bootleg Earthbound, looking just the way it
probably would do if it was reissued the right way. But it is VERY
expensive, at least where I saw it (~35US$)


Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 20:56:36 -0700
From: takatek at ix dot netcom dot com (James Grigsby)
Subject: The First Three (box of Crimson pic discs)
Just purchased "The First Three" a box containing picture disc CDs of the
first three King Crimson albums.  I discovered:

1.  This set is an import from Holland.

2.  While "In the Court..." is included in the remastered "Definitive
Edition", "Poseidon" and "Lizard" do not appear to be the remastered

I had previously bought "Poseidon" in the remastered version, and so did a
comparison listen.  While the remastered version does put the drums in more
relief (i.e. more high frequencies), the other mastering seems to capture
more of the original LP sound - smoother bass and more realistic sounding
woodwinds. I don't have the "Lizard" remastering for comparison.

I'm wondering if you or other Crimsonites had any experiences with this box
and comments about the relative merits of the remastered Crimson titles.

James Grigsby
takatek at ix dot netcom dot com

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 11:40:30 -0400
From: Ross McKenzie Student 31 <ca385a31 at nova dot umuc dot edu>
Subject: Good Fripp Albums
This is in response to the following:

> What's a good Fripp album?


The album "Exposure" is very good and a must for any Fripp fan. The album
is more of a variety of Fripp's tastes in loops, pop, experimentation, and
rock n' roll ("You Burn Me Up I'm A Cigarette"). "Exposure" features Peter
Gabriel ("Here Comes The Flood") among others.

Other great albums featuring Fripp outside of Crimson include:

David Bowie "Heroes"
David Bowie "Scary Monsters"
Brian Eno "Another Green World"
Brian Eno/David Byrne "My Life In The Bush of Ghosts"
Fripp/Eno "Evening Star"
Fripp/Eno "The Essential Fripp and Eno"

Fripp also made a number of recordings with David Sylvain, one of which I
have entitled "Damage". All the above mentioned albums feature stellar
guitar work by one Mr. Robert Fripp. Fripp's latest album "A Blessing of
Tears" is a beautiful continuation of Fripps "Soundscape" series. Fripp has
appeared on many other recordings outside of Crimson, these are personal

Peace, Rob

From: David Maclennan <davidm at cs dot moc dot govt dot nz>
Subject: Sinfield's "Still"
Date: 16 Oct 1995 10:03:38 +1300
I've seen a couple of people dissing Pete Sinfield's "Still" album in ET
recently so I thought it's about time someone stuck up for it.

I got "Still" back in 1974 and I've always rather liked it.  Sure, the
production's a little weedy in places (but the CD version is a HUGE
improvement in that department!), and yes, Sinfield's no great shakes as a
singer.  And as for the lyrics, well, he's always been a but lugubrious,
even with early KC.  They sounded really meaningful when we were 17, but
that was then and this is now...

Songs like "Under the Sky", "Song of the Sea Goat" and "Night People"
are great, but they are by no means the only good points on the album.
 I find "Still" a nice album to "lay back" to, and even after 21 years I
still dig it out from time to time.

"Still" came out at the same time as my all-time favourite prog-rock album,
PFM's "Photos of Ghosts", but that'a another story...

BTW, had a COOl dream last night, in which I was watching a TV programme or
video that was a documentary on KC, with great live footage of the current
lineup in action!!  Oh how I wish it had been more than a dream!

-- David Maclennan

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sasha Alain Wolf <fripp at uclink3 dot berkeley dot edu>
Subject: XTC
There has been so much talk about XTC lately that I often wonder if this
newsletter is really about KC or not? I think the whole "Pat
Mastelotto/XTC" thing has been talked to death. If we really want to
discuss XTC, lets talk about their keyboardist's appearance on "Exposure"
(Barry Andrews).  Did Fripp just pull this guy out of a hat or what? I'm
not even sure what songs he plays on? For instance, that synthesizer sound
on the song "exposure" could very well be frippertronics, yet also could be
Barry Andrews. Not that the guy sounds bad, I'm just curious is how he got
on the album in the first place.

Also, I have a question for you Toby. Don't you think it's in VERY poor
taste including the eulogy to Edith Fripp's funeral on the home page?

[ No, not at all. Robert sent me that eulogy offering it for publication in
  ET. -- Toby ]

	- Sasha

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 22:56:02 EDT
From: John Saylor <jsaylor at MIT dot EDU>
Subject: pounding it home
At 11:48 10/12/95 +0800, you wrote:

>From: Tatina_S at mediasoft dot net (Scott Tatina)
>Art is
>not a mirror-it is a hammer.


I think you missed the nail and just pounded your thumb-
But that's the only damage.
[nothing to reflect it back]


Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 16:39:34 +1300 (NZDT)
From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan)
Subject: early samples
>Someone brought up the sample of CothCK from Merday Morn again and it
>reminded me of a commet my cousin made about it. He mentioned that this
>was the earliest example that he has heard (me too) of one song sampling
>another. Can anyone think of anything earlier? Was KC the pioneer of the
>most common practice in rap music? Does the mighty Crimson King have a
>secret urge to drop Bruford and Mastelotto and hire a good beat box? Will
>the next album feature songs such as "I May be a Dinosaur, but I'm Still a
>Gangsta, Ho" and " Thrak the Police!"? Find out same Thrak time.....same
>Thrak channel.

The Beatles, with the fade out from "All You Need is Love", from 1967, used
"She Loves You", "Yesterday", "In the Mood", "Greensleeves", and the
Trumpet Voluntary. Not strictly a sample, since it was a live recording of
the tracks mentioned, rather than going back and using the original tapes,

Also, numerous comedy records of the fifties (such as "Spaceship Landing
Downtown") used snippets from contemporary rock'n'roll songs.

But hey, wait! This is a King Crimson list :)


Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 17:28:28 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: Greg Lake   Live CD
Hello Everyone,

There is a new (I think) CD by Greg Lake out from King Biscuit Flower Hour
Records, Inc. It's a live concert CD. Recorded o Nov 5, 1981 at the
Hammersmith Odeon, London. This CD contains 21st Century SM and In the
Court of the CK. Both done in a rather guitar rock style. Lake is doing
vocals and guitar. Gary Moore is doing the lead guitar and back vocals.
Tommy Eyre is on keyboards, Ted McKenna on drums, Tistram Margetts on bass.
KBFH Records is in New York.

Bye, Tom

Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 15:25:55 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: David Sylvian Concert

Comment on Mr Peter Smart's post:

As far as I know, D. Sylvian is giving two concerts around Tokyo/Yokohma
area. I will be going to Oct 17 concert in Tokyo. If I find something
interesting, I'll post it on ET.

Since KC is in town right now, I wonder if RF meets DS (this week?) during
his stay in Japan. Or are they going to miss each other?

Bye, Tom

From: "Peter" <pes94001 at uconnvm dot uconn dot edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 00:33:19 +0000
Subject: THRAK/Fripp's guitar playing
I finally got THRAK this week.  I'm impressed!  Adrian's been drinking his
milk or something; he no longer sounds like David Byrne's little brother.
What really surprises me is how good some of the actual songs are- I keep
putting on "Dinosaur" and "Walking on Air" (still getting used to "People")
before the instrumentals which are usually much, much better than anything
with lyrics.  This album represents a real listening challenge, esp. the
orchestral-sounding parts, which could be Fripp or Belew playing guitar
synth, Fripp on the Mellotron, Trey Gunn doing something weird on the
stick, or Tony Levin playing the upright with a bow!  I guess the concert
will clear up a lot of this for me.  Love the two-drummer lineup...

Other thing: I've been trying to figure out some of Fripp's solos on "The
Bridge Between" with no luck.  Does anyone know what modes or scales he
generally uses?  What he plays doesn't usually fit into the church modes
very well so it must be something of a synthetic nature.  Even with the new
tuning, he's still got the same twelve notes as the rest of us, so there
must be something he falls back on.


Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 06:53:14 -0700
From: Kenley Neufeld <neufeldk at noc dot usfca dot edu>
Subject: Tony Levin appearing in Concord, CA
Hello all

Tony Levin will be appearing at the Concord, CA Tower Records on Wednesday,
October 18, 1995 from 6:30-8:30 PM.

"Tony Levin will be at Tower in Concord to sign autographs and promote his
first solo CD "World Diary."

Tower Records, 1280 Willow Pass Rd., 510-827-2900

[ Drat! Sorry you CA people for not getting this post out sooner. -- Toby ]

Kenley Neufeld               | University High School (San Francisco)
                                     | Associate Librarian
neufeldk at usfca dot edu        | Electronic Media Coordinator
URL:  http://www.usfca.edu/usf/neufeld/kenley.html

Date: 15 Oct 95 16:36:13 EDT
From: Philip Curme <100535 dot 433 at compuserve dot com>
Subject: Elephant Talk #229
Much time is spent by admirers of Frank Zappa's music in identifying
examples of "conceptual continuity" within the great man's many artistic
endeavours.Examples within Fripp's works are less obvious -
but.....................how about the following two tenuously connected
links :- On the album "Earthbound" the song Groon dissolves into a storm of
feedback at the end of Ian Wallace's excellent drum solo.From this
maelstrom of sound a driving, incessant, nagging beat emerges - sounds just
like an underground train (boom ditty boom,boom ditty boom,boom ditty
boom).  26 months on at The stanley Warner Theatre,Pittsburgh,Pennsylvania
KC improvise a song (Doctor Diamond from CD3 of The Great Deceiver) in
which John Wetton sings "I am the driver of an underground train".Spooky
eh...  I've always been a sucker for railway songs....  "Trans Europe
Express" by Kraftwerk.  "Down In The Tube Station At Midnight" by The Jam.
"Casey Jones a Steamin' & A Whistlin" by erm...Casey Jones.  Phil Curme.

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:46:04 -0700
From: SezZ at eworld dot com
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #226
>I personally would
>like to see this band try something like a revamped rendition of Sailor's
>Tale or In the Wake of Poseidon.I think Adrian Belew's vocal ability would
>make the latter very interesting.  How many of you think that this band
>should give a try at performing one of Crimson's older classics.

I think this band could do a killer version of "The Great Deceiver".
"Fracture" would be wonderful, and "One More Red Nightmare" would be
incredible with two drummers.  Of course there's always "Cat Food" and I
think a riot would ensue if they did "21st Century Schitzoid Man".

I'm there next week at the House of Blues gig in LA.   Can't wait.

- Sez

Date: 17 Oct 95 20:30:35 EDT
From: Josh  Emery <73174 dot 3300 at compuserve dot com>
Subject: GD Box Set & Liner notes
>Is anyone but me disappointed with the Great Deceiver box set?  For one,
>all of the Lark's Tongues songs seem somehow empty without Jamie Muir.
>What is the Talking Drum without the chaos of Muir's opening conga solo?  I
>missed the little *doing*, *doing doing* by Muir (I forgot the name of the
>instrument) after Wetton's sustain of the title lyrics.

I love these discs.  What can you say about the absence of Jamie - he
didn't stick around.  I think Bruford's drumming is amazing.  I think you
have The Talking Drum confused with Easy Money - there are no lyrics in The
Talking Drum and the *doing*, *doing doing* follows Easy Money.

> Why doesn't Fripp
>include any live stuff from the Lark's Tongues period or the Red period?

Lets see Larks' Tongues Part I, Book of Saturday, Exiles, Easy Money,
Talking Drum, Larks' Tongues Part II - looks like every Larks' Tongue s
period song there is to me.  The band broke up after RED - they never
toured after it.  When the 80s Crimson formed Fripp said one of the reasons
they played Red was because the old Crimson never did play it live.

>Couldn't let that description of the BLESSING OF TEARS liner notes as
>"contrived exposition" go by without a comment.  It's a matter of taste, of
>course -- but I found them extremely moving, literally to the point of
>tears when I read them the first time.  These notes (along with the ones in
>the INTERGALACTIC BOOGIE EXPRESS disc) put the lie to Fripp as unfeeling
>and coldly intellectual.  While his writing style is still rather formal
>and controlled, he's forthright and open about important events in his life
>which had some direct bearing on the music.  So I would argue that there is
>*musical* justification for the personal matters discussed in them; and I
>commend Fripp for having the personal courage to reveal himself so openly.
>At the risk of offending the original poster, perhaps it helps to have had
>some of the sorts of life experiences he's talking about.

I agree completely.  As I lost my mother last year I found the notes in
Blessing of Tears *very* moving.  And remember, youu don't *have* to read
them and they don't cost extra.


Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 12:01:41 -0700
From: kohern at direct dot ca (kevin patrick o'hern)
Subject: vinyl query
Hi, does anyone know if 'Thrak', 'Vroom', or 'B'Boom' were released on
vinyl (most likely in Europe I suspect), if so who do I talk to?  Someone
asked, "what's a good Fripp album?", 'The League of Gentlemen' is my
personal favorite.  I also read some talk on John McLaughlin a couple of
issues ago, try a listen to his album with Shankar (not Ravi). Speaking of
which, has anyone seen 'Liveevil', by Miles Davis on CD (nowhere to be
found in Canada)?


Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 21:00 BST
From: ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk (Ron Chrisley)
Subject: For ET:  David Cross special performances this week in London
David Cross rang me yesterday to tell me that he will be *acting* in a play
which he also wrote and for which he composed the music.  The music, I
gather, is a cross (ugh; no pun intended) between minimalist (he says he
uses a Philip Glass-type figure) and Japanese folk music (?).

	Interchange Studios
	Wilken Street
	London NW5 (near Chalk Farm?)
	7:30 (music starts at 7:00)
	Oct 18, 20, and 21 only

I'm going to try to make it on Saturday.

Ron Chrisley (ronc at cogs dot susx dot ac dot uk)
   Chill.   Serve.   Enjoy.   Repeat.

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 01:10:06 -0600 (CST)
From: John dot P dot Mohan at lawrence dot edu
Subject: Instructional video "Bruford & The Beat"
I don't know if this has ever been mentioned here before, but I don't ever
recall reading about it. I just recently purchased an old instructional
video by Mr. Bruford entitled "Bruford & The Beat". I got it for about $25
from the Steve Weiss catalog company.

It was made in 1982 and is 30 mins. long. It has short interviews with
Steve Howe and Robert Fripp, but is mostly footage of Bill fiddling around
on his kit (the weird Discipline-era drumkit). It also goes into detail
regarding the rhythm to the song "Discipline" and ends with a neat (if
somewhat silly) performance by the band, playing along with the album
version of the song.

A very entertaining and amusing video, if somewhat dated due to the radical
changes Bill's playing and equipment have gone through in just 13
years. But it does give some insight into soloing and warmup techniques
which I found very inspirational as a drummer and Bruford fan.

Also check out the lavish Nov. _Modern Drummer_ article on Bill and Pat if
you have not yet done so.


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 17:51:21 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: Keith Tippett   Blueprint
Hi Everyone,

Last week I saw a re-issued CD "Blueprint" by Keith Tippett newly on sale
at a CD shop in Tokyo.  The shop is DiskUnion Shinjuku Branch. The album
was originally released in 1972. R. Fripp is the producer.

Bye, Tom

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 17:55:46 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: John G. Perry's album "Seabird"
Can anyone tell me what sort of music is played on the album "Seabird" by
John G. Perry?  I read that the album credits guest players like M. Giles,
G. Richardson, etc. The CD is available from Voiceprint (VP-169CD). Perry
was with Caravan and Curved Air.

Bye, Tom

Date: Thu, 19 Oct 95 18:30:23 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: Interview with H. Moriya (CGT)
This is a partial translation of an article from a Japanese magazine "Arch
Angel". They interviewed Mr H. Moriya of CGT on March 5, 1995 at Pit Inn (a
jazz/rock club) in Tokyo.

AA. Tell me how you joined the Guitar Craft.

HM. I went to the US and attended Barcley College of Music. The education
there was very worthwhile including the study of basic theory for two
years. But after that the college required me to study even higher degree
of theories. I doubted if that was necessary for me and started skipping
classes. At around that time, I learned that there was the Guitar Craft led
by Robert Fripp whom I had been a fan of since long time. The information
in the GC was not as open as it is today, including the guitar tuning
method. I was told not to touch any guitar for a week before I joined the
GC. I was told to bring along an acoustic guitar and a metronome.

AA. Do you use music sheets at CG?

HM. You are not required to have the knowledge of music sheets because you
cannot call it a music if you only play according to what's written on the
music sheets.

AA. Tell us about how you formed the CGT. Why did you decide to have three

HM. I joined the GC in 87. I played in The League of Crafty Guitarists
during 87 - 90. Just before The League was disassembled, at a concert in
Seattle, Robert Fripp asked me and other few members "with whom we wanted
to play after the disasssembly". We decided to form a group with four
members who raised their hands at that time. But one member had to retire
because of a problem with his finger, a common problem for
guitarists. That's why we are with three members now. Of course there are
many things that you can only do with four members. Most of the repertoirs
we had were abandoned. But I think we became stronger than before because
of that. Because The League had a lot of members, small mistakes were not
so apparent. Also, the more experienced members could bring up the level of
unexperienced members by playing together on the same stage. With only
three members, you cannot rely on those.

(to be continued)

Bye, Tom



From: "Peter" <pes94001 at uconnvm dot uconn dot edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:38:01 +0000
Subject: New Haven ticket still for sale
Just a reminder, I've still got a third row seat for the New Haven
show on 11/18 for sale ($32).  E-mail me if you want it!


From: jbrainin at mordor dot com (Jonathan Brainin)
Subject: NYC shows @ Longacre 11/20-11/25 (no 11/23)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 21:39:55 -0400
I called the Longacre Theater (actually Teletron) today about ticket
availability for these shows as I have every day for the last two and one
half weeks.  Much to my suprise, they actually had some concrete info to
give me!  Tickets for these shows will go on sale, ONLY BY PHONE, Sunday,
October 22 at 9 am.  Prices were not yet announced.

See you there,
Jonathan Brainin

Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 15:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Isaiah Singer <isinger at ocf dot Berkeley dot EDU>
Subject: Marin Ticket Redux
	This  is my desparate almost last minute attempt to resell one (1)
ticket for the Marin show this Saturday (Oct.21st), which I can no longer
afford.  Please respond soon!
		Isaiah Singer

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 16:11:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "Tony Garza (415)723-7180" <GARZA_T at HOSP dot STANFORD dot EDU>
Subject: Bay Area Tickets for Sale
Hi everyone,

The last time King Crimson came here to the Warfield all my friends came up
here from Texas (what more of an excuse do you need!). This time all my
Texan friends have backed out of flying here for the 2nd round of shows and
have decided to see them locally.  Hence I am in posession of four tickets
to the Zellerback show Oct. 20, and four tickets to the Marin show which I
would be happy to sell at face price to anyone who doesn't cause
distractions during the show.

Garza_t at hosp dot stanford dot edu

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 08:20:45 PDT
From: dunn at intellicorp dot com
Subject: Tickets Offer RUSH RUSH
Toby, our Mercury of Crimson light - I have extra "low tier" tickets for
this friday's Berkeley show. I would like to dispose of them at cost to
other crimheds.

Failing preliminary distribution via this medium I will be found outside
the hall drinking double late's in a discipline shirt hawking these
beautific seats.

 Contact Me:

 Casey Dunn

 dunn at intellicorp dot com


From: jbrainin at mordor dot com (Jonathan Brainin)
Subject: NYC shows @ Longacre Theater
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 23:24:46 -0400
FYI, the phone # to call this Sunday, October 22 at 9 am to get your own
tickets to see Crimso at the Longacre is 212/239-6200.  Also, if it helps
to know where the theater is, the Longacre is located on West 48th Street
between 8th Avenue and Broadway.  See y'all there!




From: Brian Thomson <BrianT at computing dot emap dot co dot uk>
Subject: KC "Review" at euphony.com
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 13:18:00 PDT
I hesitate to call it a review - I think you'd all better have a look at:

Honour Sufficiency


Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 18:04:27 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: KC Review   Tokyo Oct 14
Hi Everybody,

This is my last review of KC gigs in Japan. For those of you who hadn't
seen my post on the past KC gigs in Japan, please look at them first.

The KC Gig at Tokyo Kohsei-Nenkin Kaikan (Tokyo Welfare Fund Hall), Tokyo
on Oct 14

It started off with CGT at 17:00. They did the same round as Oct 10, the
only difference being the insertion of "long version of 21st CSM". They did
short versions on other dates. Oct 14 was their last gig in Japan. CGT
ended at 17:23.

KC came on stage slightly after 17:30, following the soundscapes on tape.
First, RF walked in alone from the left side of the stage with a guitar in
his hand. A very big applause as he climbs up the box I talked about
before. He started to fade in with his scoundscapes overlapping on the
tape. This time he used higher tones for soundscapes than before. Lights
faded out.

TL walks in next, followed by BB with his tie and jacket. Then TG and PM
enter. They started doing improv, TL on stand-alone slim bass, to make
violin-like sounds. KC did this improv rather long. Longer than other gigs.
AB came in last.

The first song was Thela Hun GG. Again they used the taped words of
"Dagerous place". It seemed that AB steped on a button to start the taped
words. The songs were played in following order:

2. Red    RF was spotlighted in the middle part (first time I saw him
spotlighted during this Japan tour). TL played the bass line quite
differently. Overall a good KC performance. Very tight. BB contributed to
have the song end with a great strength. Drums were very good throughout
the whole gig.

3. Frame by Frame     The division of work between PM and BB is well done.

4. Dinosaur     The drums were excellent. RF did a very short solo-like
interval between the vocal parts. AB did, like other concerts, manipulated
sounds on guitar to givea semi-classic-like interlude where the song gets
quieter. It matched very well with TL's stand-alone bass playing high-tone

5. One Time      BB stood up and did his drumming almost through the entire
song. TG gave a mellotron/keyboard-like sounds with his guitar-stick.

6. Vrooom      TG/guitar-bass-stick and TL/bass did an interlude. TL's bass
line moved up and down
quite a bit.

7. Soundscapes     RF started. This time PM didn't go off-stage but did not
play in the beginning.
RF's guitar gave out quite different soundscapes than those at other nights
in Japan. He probably used "female voice" and "chruch organ" type of
sounds. RF mixed that with an acute metallic guitar sounds in the middle of
the soundscapes.

8. B'Boom       Soundscapes continued to B'Boom. BB used synth-drum to
create bell-like sounds, which was also new.

9. Thrak     In the beginning,  TL used a bow to play his bass guitar and
did improv totally different from what I've heard so far.  AB manipulated
his guitar sounds a lot, including piano sound. After all, this is another
Thrak re-creation with massive improv. I liked this very much. RF did a
solo in the middle part, which was followed by total silence (short one).
Then KC members went into something like "modern music" type of improv,
with synth-drum. AB did a solo after this. Another short break (silence).
And then, very heavy "Thrak"-king sounds. The treatment of these breaks
(silence) is effective. The ending part was done by AB with quiet guitar
chords, creating almost voice-like sound.

10. Neurotica     Taped words were used for the "talking" part. Stage
lighting turned to yellow/blue, giving an "alert" feeling. The lighting
also resembled car head lights passing by. TL did a back-up vocals. RF solo

11. Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream     RF solo in the "bridge" part of the
song. AB's guitar sounded like RF's in the '70's. I like that sound.

12. Walking on Air      This song had always been the last song of the gig
after two encores in previous gigs. On Oct 14, KC brought it forward.  TL
used stand-alone bass. AB did the lead guitar in the interlude portion.
AB's guitar sound reminded me of "Don't let me down" by the Beatles. I'm
not criticizing: I like the sound.

13. Two Sticks -Improv   A short solo by TG, no TL this time. In other
shows, TL always accompanied TG. Not on Oct 14. TL came in later to form an
improv-weaving. No percussions. BB actually came walking down from his
"box" and sat together with AB in the front portion of RF's box. TG
produced a clear/clean sounds, contrasted by TL's stick with more
distortion (but not radical). TG also did RF-like phrases.

14. Elephant Talk       It was superb. The best in all gigs KC did in Japan
that I saw. The mix was also good. You could hear everyone perfectly. "It
would be difficult I guess for KC to re-do it" was my honest impression.

15. Indiscipline      Started off rhythmically, unlike other nights. BB
kept the rhythm constantly without putting in breaks. After the "I repeat
myself"-portion, improv by RF and BB was heavy.

encore      (on Oct 14, the special BB/PM/AB drum/percussion session came
later. Not here.)

16. People   BB, unlike the other nights, played together with PM all the
time. He did not stand up and keep himself off the percussion.  TL wore,
like other nights, long finger-picking nails (?) for bass-hitting. TG/AB
solos were included.

17. Vrooom, Vrooom


18. The special drum/percussion session    On Oct 14, AB added hand
clapping which audience followed.

19. LTiA       Started with TL's phrase. He wore those "figernails" again.
The song was very solid. The best I ever heard.

The last KC gig in Japan was an unique occasion with different order of
songs (RF had a paper in front of his with the titles of songs on it, I
think), very very solid mixing, tight drums and percussion (the best I
heard this year) and in the end while walking off stage in the dark - RF
stopped for a moment at the very left side of the stage and then put his
hand at heart facing the audience. We couldn't see his face but it was
clear. That's what I call great musician.

Bye, Tom

Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 11:06:54 PST
From: "Allen Huotari" <allenh at smtpgate dot tais dot com>
below is a review of the Oct. 12 Omiya gig in Japan
I'm forwarding this to the list for the "witness", a Japanese friend of mine who
wishes to be known as Kirk...dig the enthusiasm             ajh

Hi, Allen-

Although the seat that I took was terrible to fit myself into because of lack of
leg and knee space, the performance of the band was perfect.

The VROOOOOOM band live in Omiya-city on October 12 will be sure to let people
admit it as one of the historic events in the area! Crimsonia made a long line
along the street to the entrance of the hall before its opening. The Large Hall
of Sonic City Center building swallowed THRAK maniacs up to its maximum RED zone
capacity. From 7:00 pm it took off with 30 minutes of California Guiter Trio
show and started by Robert Fripp appearing at the deep position of the stage. I
remember only the beginning and ending of the order of the program; they started
with Thela Hun Gingeet followed by Red, they ended with Talking Drum and Larks'
Tongues in Aspic Part 2. As per other songs, I think they played; VROOM with
CODA, VROOM VROOM, Frame by Frame, Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream, One Time,
Improv-Two Sticks, Elephant Talk, Indiscipline, B'Boom, THRAK, People, Cage,
Dinosaur, Walking On Air, Percussion ensemble and more. Sleepless was not
played, that was a thousand pities.

Bill's drumming in B'Boom was exciting, perfect and fun to see. I have never
realized that his drumming was this great before seeing his live performance.
The percussion ensemble by Bill, Pat and Adrian was played before Talking Drum.

The location of the members was as follows;

             /  ++++       +++++       ++++    \
            /   | Pat |        | Fripp |        | Bill |      \
           /    ++++       +++++       ++++      \
          /                                                  \
         /     +++++      ++++++     +++++       \
        /      | Trey |        | Adrian |     | Tony |         \
       /       +++++      ++++++     +++++         \
      /                                                           \
                              Stage Front

I did not understand the intention of why they did not give any spot lights to
Robert Fripp through the show. It looked as if Robert was taking break from the
start to the end of the show or he was just a staff. My seat was positioned at
the front row on the second floor of the hall and the stage was too far to
recognize their faces and what they were doing. I should have brought a
telescope with me.

The sound balance was not bad. Volume level was not too loud unlike the Silver
Elephant. I did not feel any necessity for ear plugs this time.

Best regards,
koichi-ka at aix dot or dot jp
NCB02312 at niftyserve dot or dot jp

Mike Stok