Elephant Talk #228 (as text)

5 October 1995

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 16:33:05 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: Different Crimson Versions
Comment on G. Svensson's post:

I like the expression in the post. Who else than us would die to get
multiple versions of the "same" (not same for us, but same for non-Crimsos)
music/song? What about Genesis before P Gabriel left? Or Peter Hammill and
Van der Graaf Generator?

Bye, Tom

From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado at waynesworld dot ucsd dot edu>
Subject: Mr. Mister
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:24:46 -0700 (PDT)
I agree that the first two Mr. Mister albums were not too memorable, but
their third and final album _Go On_ wasn't too bad. True there are a number
of songs that would leave an anti-pop snob cringing on the floor but there
were also some genuinely interesting ones where the band headed in a more
Weather Report-like direction with bassist/vocalist Richard Page doing a
surprisingly decent job on fretless bass and former Weather Report
percussionist Alex Acuna dropping in. There's even one tune (something
about being zoned out on television) where the band veers close to 80's
Crimson territory with solos from the keyboardist (a "backwards from Mars"
one at that) and the guitarist that would have done Fripp and Belew
proud. Come to think of it, even the lyrics sound like something Belew
might have written in one of his more twisted moods.

Paolo Valladolid
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From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado at waynesworld dot ucsd dot edu>
Subject: In defense of John McLaughlin
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
_Inner Worlds_ wasn't exactly a watershed, true, but the opening track
(amazing drumwork from Narada Walden, btw, with the same opening drum licks
that open "Breathless"), "Miles Out" with the terrifying ring-modulated
feedback guitar, "Gita" with the most emotional guitar synthesizer
improvisations I've ever heard from McLaughlin, and the two-part closer
are all tracks worthy of listening.

I whole-heartedly disagree with the assessment of _Visions Of the Emerald
Beyond_ as belonging on the trash heap. It may have a flaw (e.g. "Can't
Stand Your Funk") but without that track all the remaining tracks seem to
fit organically together; as if they were separate movements of one
composition, one coherent conception.

Paolo Valladolid

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 09:42:26 +0100
From: Pierre Dauchy <pierre at cerma dot fr>
Subject: Dukes of Stratosphear, Centipede
kevin patrick o'hern wrote in #226:
> ... If you like XTC, they released two E.P.'s
> under the name "The Dukes of the Stratosphear", "25 O'clock", and "Psionic
> Sunspot", 25 oclock is the better one, but mine's on vinyl, I don't know if
> it's on CD.

"25 O'clock" and "Psionic Sunspot" were released together on 1 CD
appropriately entitled "Chips from the Chocolate Fireball" :-) I recommend
it too, especially the "25 O'clock" part. But be warned, it's XTC acting as
a psychedelic band all the way - music, words, covers, even liner notes.

I have the same question for Centipede, as well as for other Tippett works:
are any of these on CD ? I only found the comparatively recent album from
Keith and Julie Tippett.

piR	(Time for a _Shortest Sig_ contest ?)

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:19:37 +0100 (MET)
From: "Erik.Matthysen" <matthys at uia dot ua dot ac dot be>
Subject: RE: Jamie Muir
Someone asked recently about Jamie Muir. There is a long interview with him
from sometime in the 80s? in elephant talk 122, I think. In any case you
can locate it through the index to elephant talk on the web page.

Erik Matthysen
matthys at uia dot ua dot ac dot be

From: Iain dot Robertson at tiuk dot ti dot com
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 12:02:40 BST
Subject: The Mincer and North Star
I've not seen this discussed before, but I've often wondered about the
Mincer.  I know that large hunks of Starless and Bible Black are actually
live improv's, and the Mincer has the feel and (lack of) structure to make
me think it falls into this category.  It also ends rather abruptly as if
the tape ran out.  However, unlike other improv's, it has lyrics by R P-J.
I've often wondered how this came about.  Did John Wetton sing the lyrics
live during the improv, or were they added later in the studio?  I'd be
interested to know if anyone has more details on this.

Also, I'm surprised that no one has commented on the similarity between
North Star on Exposure and Matte Kudasai.  I know RF has used some musical
themes in more than one tune elsewhere (Neurotica and I Advanced Masked,
for example), but these two songs seem incredibly similar to me.  Any

Iain Robertson

From: David Crossen <dc at scms dot rgu dot ac dot uk>
Subject: Whose Voice?
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 12:06:24 +0100 (BST)
There seem to be a few differing opinions on who says:
    "Can I do one more immediately?"
on the run out of LTiA Pt.2

If we assume it was one of the band, not the engineer or any one else.
Then it must be either Muir, Fripp, Cross, Wetton or Bruford.  I think we
can eliminate some of these easily.

Geoff Chester in ET#225 says it's Jamie Muir
> ...Jamie saying
> "Can I do one more immediately?" as the last echo of the coda from LTiA
> Part II fade to sonic blackness....

I would eliminate this possibility since Muir (like myself) is a scotsman
and the question is not uttered in a scottish accent. I think that you can
hear Jamie's accent in a phone conversation on LTiA pt.1 (unless anyone
else knows different).

vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) in ET#226 says it's The Fripp himself.
> (I had always assumed it was Fripp)

Again, I would eliminate Fripp on the grounds of accent. Fripp has, what is
called in Britain, a "west country" accent, being from Dorset or
thereabouts ("west country" refers to the south west of England). Whereas
the speaker has IMHO a south-eastern English accent.

I think Todd Bernhardt <73364 dot 1601 at compuserve dot com> in ET#226 is probably
correct. He says:

> I've
> always thought, tho, that it was Bruford asking the question because he was
> less than happy with his playing in the middle break (as a drummer, I'm
> well acquainted with always wanting to strive in the studio for the perfect
> take and perfect feel, even when the rest of the band was saying, "That was
> fine! Enough already!!"). Plus, it sounds like Bill -- and I can't imagine
> Jamie Muir ever wanting to do a second take! :-)

I agree with Todd. Having met Bill and heard some interviews with him, it
does sound like his voice and the sort of thing he would say, even though
Todd's comments seem too intelligent for a drummer :-) Would you like to
join my band here in Aberdeen, Scotland? (only kidding Derek)

But, not having heard David Cross speak and the fact that he is my namesake
(apart from the 2 extra letters I've got) still leaves some doubt.  Does
anyone know what sort of voice/accent DC has? What's he doing now?  Has he
added 2 letters to his name and started playing guitar around Aberdeen
(people have reported hearing versions of "Red")?

Have I got nothing better to do with my time?

David Crossen.

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:26:13 -0700
From: basilisk at mail dot utexas dot edu (Leon Marcus)
Subject: Early Crimson
Hallo all,

This is my first ever post to ET so this is a bit new to me.  I'd just like
to respond to a post from Rick Churchill:

"Yet another "old fart" who still holds an odd fondness for "Lizard". "

Well I suppose that makes me a young fart at 19, and "Lizard" is one of my
favorite Crimson albums. On the whole, I prefer the earlier albums.  I find
that they are more expressive, and I really like the mood that some of the
tracks create.  However, I still enjoy blasting "Thrak" at an unthinkable
volume ( just wait till I get my hands on B'Boom).

I'm looking forwrd to seeing more Crimson fans at the Nov. 1 show here in


Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 9:42:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Tickets New Haven & Springfield
ET al... Just some quick ticket info for New Haven & Springfield. New Haven
- tickets on sale 10/7 @ 10AM EST Master/Visa $28 203-789-2120. Springfield
still avail 25/19/17$ M/Visa 413-734-5874. About the liner notes to BofT, I
thought they were appropriate, and thought maybe it was the reason for the

Martin Bradburn
bradburn dot martin at epamail dot epa dot gov                        Narragansett, RI, USA

From: "Peter" <pes94001 at uconnvm dot uconn dot edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:48:19 +0000
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #226
Duh, I just assumed the worst, but tickets for the New Haven show (11/18)
haven't even gone on sale yet!  Tomorrow (Friday, 10/5) morning they go on
sale through your friendly Ticketmaster outlet.  See ya there!

Oh yeah, whoever mentioned "Healthy Colors," I think that was originally
done for Eno and David Byrne's album "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts," but
left off for some reason.  I still don't quite understand what they were
doing on that, but I love Fripp's ugly guitar noises on part three.


Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:10:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sanjay Krishnaswamy <skrishna at diamond dot tufts dot edu>
Subject: Jazziz article on progreesive rock
For those interested, the October Jazziz has a lengthy progressive rock
article including comments from Bruford (who was extensively quoted in
their earlier fusion article), Lake, and Wetton.

Sanjay Krishnaswamy
skrishna at opal dot tufts dot edu
skrishna at diamond dot tufts dot edu

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 15:01:59 +0200
From: tajthy at ind dot eunet dot hu (TAJTHY Tamas)
Subject: After Crying
Dear LIST!

I read a lot of stuff about somehow KC related groups. Sorry for bother all
of U with this, but I just can't help it. My fellow ETer (Hello Akos!)
showed me the After Crying. I don't know too much about this group but
their music are fantastic. It has the mood of KC's Island. They have 3
CDs. One is in English, other 2 are in Hungarian. The title of the English
one is OVERGROUND MUSIC. If U ever come to Hungary try to lissten to it.

Biiig bye From:

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 10:27:30 EDT
From: John Saylor <jsaylor at MIT dot EDU>
Subject: Re: Elephant-talk digest v95 #226
>From: Phil dot Kime at ed dot ac dot uk (Phil Kime)
>Artist: Robert Fripp
>Title:	A Blessing of Tears
>Volume two of the Soundscapes series, recorded live. This is a very
>different affair to the recent _1999_ release. While the latter is dense
>and chromatic, this shows Fripp's more musical soundscape technique.

I haven't heard these, and it's quite likely that I would enjoy them, but I
must point out the false dichotomy between dense/chromatic and musical.  My
guess is that you mean "consonant" or "open".

Especially on Elephant Talk, you must realize that many of us find this
dense chromatic [note: the etomology of this word would lead you back to
"color"] aural expression quite musical.

>Given that the stated
>purpose of Frippertronics was to provide a background for improvisation, it
>is apparent that Fripp is refining this technique well as _A Blessing of
>Tears_ is eminently more suited to just this than most of his other output
>in the genre. In addition, this is possibly the most listenable of such
>albums he as ever produced. Extremely powerful and quite moving.

As I recall, Frippertronics is what happens when Robert sits down with a
guitar and some kind of delay mechanism.  And anyway, once he's released it
on a record, it is not his to decide what to do with anymore.  And still
further, a good improvisor could probably integrate a train wreck into
something musical.  Improvisation is more than just noodling around with
diatonic scales.

Of course, the quality of listenability is completely subjective [as all
music criticism is].

>The only
>downside, which is not a musical observation, is that Fripp continues to
>stretch the boundaries of contrived exposition in the liner notes all about
>his deceased mother's life.

Sorry to say, I don't think Fripp is the only master of contrived expression

Date:         Thu, 5 Oct 95  13:05:59 EDT
From: Geoff Chester <NASEP007 at SIVM dot SI dot EDU>
Subject:      LTIA Coda
In ET # 226 Todd Bernhardt wrote:

>To Geoff Chester: Someone ELSE has an LP of LTIA that has "Can I do one
>more, immediately?" on it!!! I thought I was just hearing things.  I've
>always thought, tho, that it was Bruford asking the question because he was
>less than happy with his playing in the middle break (as a drummer, I'm
>well acquainted with always wanting to strive in the studio for the perfect
>take and perfect feel, even when the rest of the band was saying, "That was
>fine! Enough already!!"). Plus, it sounds like Bill -- and I can't imagine
>Jamie Muir ever wanting to do a second take! :-)

Todd, I think you're right on this one. Jamie would probably have let
anything go as long as it fit the music.  Bill would be down on himself if
everything wasn't "just so".  I don't think I've ever seen anyone so intent
on his musical craft as Bill Bruford. I happened to be backstage at the
Orpheum Theater in Boston back in '73 when Crimso played there...Bruford
was off to the side, with an arrangement of chairs around him, oblivously
drumming away as the stagehands were setting up the show (boy did those old
Mellotrons weigh a ton!) around him.

The first time I heard that little snippet at the end of LTIA-II it scared
the livin' willies out of me. I had just had an er, ah..."intense" session
under the headphones when this voice appears out of nowhere. The room was
dark, I was alone in my apartment....took me a few moments to recover. But
after that it was a great reason to play the song really loud!


Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:43:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gideon B Banner <ggggbbbb at minerva dot cis dot yale dot edu>
Subject: Lizard, Sailor's Tale, Improv
A couple of people have posted commending Lizard.  This prompted me to give
the album a good listen again, and I'd have to agree.  Both the layering of
sound (especially with the winds and the New Orleans-style horns on
"Bolero") and the dynamics on the album are superb.

I hate to do this, but I just can't help myself-- I'd love to hear KC
perform Sailor's Tale.  This was the song that got me into Crimson-- it's
sheer force and narrative movement is incredible.  (Anyone ever notice a
three-part form used in a number of early (up to '74) Crimson songs?  There
are a number of them on RED, and Sailor's Tale is the perfect example of
this.)  And certainly the new six-part monster that is King Crimson would
make it entirely new.

I would agree that more improv on stage would be great.  Granted, it's
probably incredibly difficult with six players of their caliber.  On this
note-- I saw KC in LA at the Wiltern last June (I think it was).  I have
difficulty remembering this exactly, but during one song (which one was
it?) Belew was supposed to be soloing, only his guitar ceased to function.
The band improvised over this, and at the end of the song he was visibly
pissed.  I didn't really comprehend what had happened at the time, but
someone I was with explained this to me.  Anyone else see that same show?
Another mishap at that show: Levin and Gunn stepped forward to do the Stick
duet (wow), Gunn started the first section, and then Tony started playing,
only to realize that he wasn't plugged in.  Gave everyone a good
understanding laugh.

Fripp in a Godard remake?  Difficult to imagine.  Has he ever acted before?
How did he get involved with this?  (Iconoclast?  Could I get an

From: David Maclennan <davidm at cs dot moc dot govt dot nz>
Subject: Brockum THRAK "metal box" a rip-off
Date: 06 Oct 1995 09:59:57 +1300
I've received from Brockum my "metal box" version of THRAK.  Unlike Paolo
Valladolid, I had no problem with the gold CD coming adrift inside the box
and getting scratched.  As far as I can see the only thing that could have
scratched it was the VROOOM button, but Brockum had thoughtfully packaged
this separately.

However, I'd have to say that at US$59.99 the metal box is a rip-off.
Let's examine what you get for this large sum of money:

1) A tin box, not unlike the sort of thing children's paint sets come in.
It's somewhat flimsy, and mine arrived slightly twisted, such that it won't
close properly, and it had a ding on one edge which even a little gentle
panelbeating cannot remove.  It certainly doesn't look like the one
illustrated in Brockum's catalog!  For this kind of money they could have
given us a nice brushed aluminium box, surely.

2) The gold CD, which, as Paolo said, comes in a plain plastic sleeve with
nothing but a track listing -- no credits, lyrics or anything.  What was to
stop them putting the full package in?  Now I have to hang on to my
standard-version THRAK as well in order to have the proper packaging.  Such
a CD, in the packaging presented in the box, would have cost at most a few
dollars to produce.

3) A plain-looking black and white sticker of the logo -- you'd think at
this price we could have had a nice colored vinyl one!  The one in the box
would have cost mere cents to produce.

4) A VROOOM button, printed rather darkly.  Again, these things cost cents
to produce -- hell, most people use them as giveaways (ditto for the
sticker).  Surely a nice cloisonne enamel logo badge would have been more
appropriate in a package costing this much?

5) The tour booklet, which was the main reason I bought the box as I
haven't been able to get one from any other source (e.g. the band's
management), and of course KC are so far showing no inclination to come
down to this part of the world.  As I recall, this booklet cost about US$15
at the gigs.

So add it all up and you come to considerably less than sixty bucks worth
of value.  If this shoddy package was sanctioned by the band and/or their
management then it shows a regard for the fans that is nothing short of

I'd be interested to read the views of other ET readers on this metal box,
or comments from KC itself, its management, or even Brockum.

Caveat Emptor!  (Or as Roger Daltrey once sang, "Won't get fooled again!")

-- David Maclennan

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:28:13 -0400
From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott)
Subject: Old tunes I would like to hear
I always thought that some of the old stuff would
sound great if performed live by the present KC.
They are:
1) Ladies of the Road
2) Catfood
3) Epitaph
4) Cirkus
well it's goodbye.

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 17:28:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "M. S. AtKisson" <matkisso at OPAL dot TUFTS dot EDU>
Subject: philosophy/music
I'd like to offer a disagreement with those who think Fripp's philosophy
doesn't affect his music.  I seem to remember reading about how he worked
(in a *ahem* disciplined fashion) to be able to tap 5/4 with one foot and
4/4 with the other simultaneously.  This kind of focused approach to
learning a skill appears to underlie his music making.  Only someone who is
concentrating (not, necessarily, forcing) can pull of the tight
interlocking guitars, and only someone who is wholly present can know when
to only play five long notes.

Personal philosophies generally underlie how we live and work.  My kiddie
corner version of discpline philosophy is on a little printout above my lab
bench: "There's nothing like doing things for getting things done."  It's a
gentle reminder that bitching about how much work you have to do takes lots
of time away from actually doing it.

I believe that it's possible to enjoy Fripp's music and think his
philosophy is bunk.  I'm not sure it's correct to say that the music and
the world-view are separated for Fripp.


Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 10:34:40 +1200
From: Anthony 'Slug of Doom' Hobbs <hobbs_a at kosmos dot wcc dot govt dot nz>
Subject: RE: Elephant Talk #226
Several ETers have replied to the question about the musical style of the
Electric Light Orchestra in moderately accurate, but quite myopic style.

The person who gave the history of their origins and their first album with
Roy Wood was altogether correct, and that album would probably be called
their most progressive. However, their next phase (_ELO II_, _On The Third
Day_ and _Eldorado_) is not without its interest either. For a start, they
finally figured out how to record the strings properly, and while the
writing style definitely took a turn for the poppy, it's (please don't call
this an oxymoron) *good* pop. _Eldorado_, a concept album which sounds a
lot like the rejected second album of _Abbey Road_, is probably their most
fully realised project.

After that, they definitely lost a lot of their charm. Their string players
(2 cellos and violin) were more and more neglected in favour of full
orchestra and choir on their next three albums (_Face the Music_, _A New
World Record_ and _Out of the Blue_). It's still very... *nice* music, but
it's lost that edge that the early stuff had - this conforms closest to the
description of "over-arranged pop music". Most of their big single hits
came from these albums.

They really went off the rails at this point, losing the string players al-
together and making two really cheesy electro-disco records (_Discovery_
and _Xanadu_ - the latter with Olivia Newton-John, for Chrissakes!). Avoid.
Their next album, _Time_, was a partial return to form, with a
science-fiction storyline and some interesting electronic work. Their last
two albums are complete contractual obligations and artistic non-entities -
avoid _Secret Messages_ and _Balance of Power_ as you would a rabid dog.

Conclusion: get their first album and _Eldorado_ - also _Greatest Hits vol. 1_
has most of their hits before they went off the edge. If you can get it cheap,
have a listen to _Time_ as well.
Anthony "Slug Of Doom" Hobbs	Wellington, NZ		hobbs_a at ix dot wcc dot govt dot nz

They say there's a heaven for those who will wait - some say it's better, but
I say it ain't. I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints...

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 12:12:58 +1000
From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au (Jeremy Keens)
Subject: Beep
"who is Beep"?

E Roos should read his own post: "words by BP Fallon....with new words from


Unless s/he meant who is BP Fallon -  a different question


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 12:54:09 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: Interview Translations (from Japanese magazine)
Hi Everyone,

I am translating some of the articles that appeared in Marquee, a Japanese
magazine, which did special interviews to KC members and ex-KC members.
Please note that the original interview is written in Japanese. So
actually, the real spoken words in English are not known.

Interview with A. Belew

M: Why did you put out a CD that is actually a rehearsal tape? Who's
proposal was it?

B: It was Robert's idea to put out "Vroom" in that form. In order to arouse
interest in people. Probably he wanted to do something special for Japanese
fans. It was also a good start for us to seriously work on the band. It's
just like dipping your feet into water before jumping into a pool.

M: How did you feel about releasing this album (Vrooom)?

B: I also thought it was a good idea. I wanted the band to go further. I
needed something that proves the ideas we have been nurturing. Probably
Robert wanted to show to everybody that the band had reached this much
before releasing Thrak.

M: What do you think of the album Thrak?

B: In Thrak, there is a relection of a band that is in full swing. It's the
album we made after we've played together for a while. We have truly become
a band, playing in front of audience based upon the ideas and ways that we
have been thinking.

M: Is Thrak a development from Vrooom? Or is it something else?

B: It's a development. At the time of Vrooom, it wasn't even decided that
we will record the Thrak. Many things happened at that time of Vrooom. We
had more time for Thrak so we could integrate our ideas. In that sense,
it's more perfect. We had re-recorded all the songs that were in Vrooom for
Thrak. It's because I qthink we wanted people to compare the band of the
beginning and the band a year later. To see the difference. Since the old
days, Crimson played live when a new song was written. But we didn't do it
at the time of Vrooom. We put our initial ideas on the tape.  Thrak is a
result of time spent after playing live in front of people. So naturally it
would sound different.  I think it has become more exciting because we
gained more confidence.

M: Were all the other songs written at the time of the mini-album Vrooom?

B: There were no single song complete but we had ideas for the songs. I
knew that Robert was working on Vrooom Vrooom and I had an idea for Inner
Garden. Dinosaur was about to be born at the time of rehearsal but was not
complete enough to be put into an album.

M: Please describe the process of making Thrak as detailed as you could.

B: Usually everyone would gather in a studio. I was in a room. Tony was in
a different room. I think Pat was also in another room. Robert, Trey and
Bill were in the same room. That's how the actual recording was made. After
each one completes his own track successfully, corrections will be made per
person, especially the drumming. We may overdub some ideas. We don't
overdub that much because the band itself makes big sound. The songs in the
album are very close to the live versions.  In the end, we record the
drums. I like to record the vocals by myself alone after having dinner. Of
course, with David, our engineer.

M: Have you discussed on the direction of the album while you were making it?

B: We discussed per each song. The members involved were different. I and
Bill discussed while eating. Or, Robert, Trey and me together. There was
always somebody talking about the possibility of some song or some idea.
But it's difficult to talk about the overall sound of the band. You rarely
can say the sound will be like this or that. Most of the time, a song has
its own life and we try to put it together as we like it. Both Robert and I
had overall ideas on how the band should be but we left it to the songs,
and the band took care of the rest.

M: Have you changed your plans after seeing the reactin to Vrooom?

A: No. When Vrooom came out, all the songs for Thrak were complete. Even at
this moment I don't know the reaction to Vrooom. I feel that there are many
people who are excited about this band, which I am pleased with, but I
don't make music on the basis of people's wish to hear something they like
to hear. This band is only making something that we can get excited about.
And we hope that it is also exciting for the audience.

M: What is the band King Crimson to you?

A: I think you know that I do a lot of other activities other than King
Crimson. I have my own recording studio, I have my own record label. There
are many other things I do in music but King Crimson is for me a very
special thing. There are not many bands that I would like to join. The
reason why I'd like to join King Crimson is that its members are excellent
musicians and great people. There are complicated ideas. There are ideas
that makes me think. My ideas change as well.  There are influences on my
ideas. I cannot make this music alone. I can make my music alone and I'm
satisfied with that. But it's also nice to play music which can only be
made with an unique combination of musicians. In short, King Crimson has a
perfectness which other bands don't have.  We can do without fearing
anything (laughs). And overall, the band is surrounded by seriousness.
This band is not for playing around. It's an intellectual band. It has a
music concept that other bands do not possess. That's why I want to stay
with this band.

(to be continued)

Bye, Tom

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:24:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: McGregor Boyle <boyle at peabody dot jhu dot edu>
Subject: Lizard

This is my first post to Elephant Talk. I'm a _longtime_ Crimson fan,
having bought ITCotCK when it was new. I was 12, and it took me months to
figure out how to listen to the thing. Since then I've learned that my
favorite recordings are the ones I can't understand at all on first
hearing! I have to confess a slight preference for earlier versions of the
group, but I'm completely sold on VRROOM and Thrak.

What brings me out of lurker mode are the recent postings on the Lizard
CD. This is probably my all-time fave Crimson (if I really had to
choose) and I had a few comments. Forgive me if all of this is old news
to you all.

There were some comments about the connection between Lizard and the
Beatles. I assume its well-known that the song "Happy Family" is about the
Beatles, and that the cover illustrations _all_ are connected to the song
lyrics. What some may not know is that the style of many illustrations, and
some individual pictures are copied from a 14th century French music
manuscript called "Roman de Fauvel." Check your music history books-

Also- what ever happened to Gordon Haskell? He had a rather er...."unique"
voice, which I rather liked. I have a tape of his solo album (called, I
believe "It Is and It Isn't) which isn't at all Crimson-like, but features
(I think) John Wetton on bass. Forgive the vagueness here, but I've never
actually _seen_ it. It's a charming record in its own way. Fripp went to
some rather extraordinary measures to remove Haskell from the FbF set- was
this a contractual problem, or just Fripp being Fripp?

Another thread has been the MacDonald and Giles CD. I actually have this-
found it _used_ in my local record shop. I'd been looking for it for
_years_ on vinyl, and was amazed to see it on CD. I now find out (from ET)
just how rare it is. It's worth having, although not the Crimson
sound-alike I had expected. No mellotrons! Strangely enough, the very
beginning of "Suite in C" reminds me more of "Islands" era Crimson than

Ok, enough for now-


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:39:58 -0600
From: poeea at centum dot utulsa dot edu (Ed Poe)
Subject: Pat Mastelotto / XTC / Mr. Mister
I was a freshman in high school when I bought the Mr. Mister album - even
then I realized (after spending eight bucks) it was tripe (you may remember
or still hear on light radio the single, "Take these broken wings / and
learn to fly again / learn to live so free...").  My first reaction when I
found out the same drummer was in KC was "NO WAY!"  Avoid.

XTC haven't had a "drummer" in a while - they seem to use session men
interchangeably.  As such, that Mastelotto played with them is, to me, a
footnote.  (BTW, anyone know who played the drums on Skylarking's "Man who
sailed around his soul?")

Also, kohern at direct dot ca (kevin patrick o'hern) writes in ET 226:

>If you like XTC, they released two E.P.'s under the name "The Dukes of the
>>Stratosphear", "25 O'clock", and "Psionic Sunspot", 25 oclock is the better
>>one, but mine's on vinyl, I don't know if it's on CD.

The entire "25 O'clock" and "Psonic Psunspot" albums are on the "Chips from
the Chocolate Fireball" CD by the Dukes (which may also just be called
"Psonic Psunspot, depending on where you live).  I also highly recommend
"Rag & Bone Buffet" (XTC) - it's a bunch of b-sides and oddities, and mine
came with a sticker with a quote from Musician magazine: "The tunes these
guys throw away are worth more than some bands careers."  I agree.  For the
completeist, it should be noted that this CD includes the song "Mermaid
Smiled," which was on the original "Skylarking" CD release in the US,
before being replaced by "Dear God."  One wonders why it was removed.

Am I off on too much of a tangent here?   :-)

Going off to subscribe to "Chalkhills"....

                             - e

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 00:40:01 -0600
From: poeea at centum dot utulsa dot edu (Ed Poe)
Subject: the right note / wrong note
in ET 226, Craig Dickson <cd at crl dot com> writes,

>|From: poeea at centum dot utulsa dot edu (Ed Poe)
>|Subject: the right note
>|in ET #224, james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz writes:
>|>I think Robert's quoted as saying something like "You can hit/play any note
>|>you like in King Crimson, as long as it's the right one."
>|Or, as a friend of mine once put it after a gig (I was fretting about a
>|solo I played): "There are no wrong notes in jazz."
>I don't think those two statements have anything to do with each other. And I
>rather suspect your friend was joking!

In reverse order:

(2): Actually, he was entirely serious (he meant it as consolation).  The
saying goes, in jazz improvisation there are only two possible "wrong"
notes - +4 and M7 - and you can usually get away with both of them
(although not in the same solo).  To overgeneralize: use a lot of sharp 4
and you sound like Coltrane (I _said_ I'm overgeneralizing); M7 and you
sound like Kenny G.

(1): I rather think they're along the same line.  The idea is, as long as
you know what your doing (or act like it) you can pretty much play anything
- whether it "fits" or not.

Do I live in a musical ivory tower or does anyone agree with me?

                             - e

From: Jeremy Lakatos <jeremy at grove dot ufl dot EDU>
Subject: Info on KC I
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:27:06 -0400 (EDT)
I'm looking for suggestions/reviews for the first generation of Crimson.
First, my tastes.

I love all of LTIA save "The Talking Drum."  I don't like the improvs on
SABB so I didn't get it. I like all of Red but Providence.

I like most of Discipline and Beat, wasn't very impressed with most of
ToaPP so didn't get it.

Love Thrak.

And I feel like I'm missing something cause I don't have any earlier KC.
I haven't gotten any of it based upon hearing a bit of the first two
albums on vinyl. I found it noisy and the vocals quite annoying. I didn't
even like 21st Century Schizoid Man, though I love the Red band playing it.

So, is the sound on the CD versions that much improved? Albums I might like
based on my tastes in crimson above, or is it really that much of a
different band? What should I start with? Any CD versions I should avoid,
because of bad production or missing bits of music?

Help me expand my Crimson collection (w/o just buying all of the albums).

I went away alone. | jeremy at grove dot ufl dot edu

From: "Velez, Joseph M.          SSgt" <VELEZJ at pruem dot spang dot af dot mil>
Subject: Myriads of days...
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 14:44:00 PDT
To the casual observer it is obvious that the story is only half written...
but as we all know and read the story continues.

>>Kudos to Toby and others for continuing the Forum,  lest we forget how
precarious it all indeed really is.

[ I thangyew -- Toby ]

>>I was introduced to the madcap KC et al through the gregarious wails of a
man called Terry, who did was a optical printer in a NYC sweatshop.  The
time was 1981.  Since I have found more then comfort in the strains of a
group who are still no less the watermark they always have been.  (As if you
dear readers didnt already know.)

>>Marvel did I to see Adrian and the Bears at the now defunkt Ritz ballroom
of NYC.  And revel did I as he gallavanted his way through Home of the
Brave, elastic guitar and all.  And with grace found a front row center seat
for the Thrak tour in Dusseldorf Germany this summer past.

>>Notes on that latter show:

Fun, except for the strange drugged roadies who kept singing words to who
knows what during the entire performance.

Distressing that the security team whip-cracked all into timid attendance by
ejecting all those who even dared to dance..  Hey, am I wrong that there is
a tribal urge to groove at some of these shows?
Needless to say it was not until the encore that the rush hit the stage
front and the party started.  Oh well.

>>My greatest revelation:  The strength of the band is summarized in one
word : Polyphonic.

I.E.  this band opened my subjective impressions of music to the objective
realism of that poly-sound that
makes the sky more than just up.


If anything is to be learned it is that the experience of appreciation for
these fellows is not the process,
but the product.  And the product though produced is under constant

"I will not be Honest  to the Liars",,  Alan Wu....

From: Chris_Woods at kaplan dot com (Chris Woods)
Subject: NYC shows
Date: 06 Oct 1995 11:23:27 GMT
Organization: Kaplan Educational Centers
Greetings all.

You know, ever since I discovered the wonderful medium commonly referred to
as a "music concert," there came with it, hand in hand, a gooey
molasses-like creature that has, but not always, prevented me from
ascertaining certain facts.  These facts include: A new album?  When?  Are
they touring?  When?  Where?  Do you know when tickets go on sale?  How
much?  Et al.  Please forgive me-information is such a hard thing to grasp
sometimes; even in this info-soaked age.  In short, a TeleCharge rep told
me this morning that the NYC gigs fell through; something about
negotiations gone sour.  Now, I know KC will gig somewhere here in the
Rotten Apple, but why can't someone (I don't know who this
person/alien/idiot might be) get their act together and properly BOOK.  (As
in, schedule.)  Again, pardon my rudeness if you find such an attitude.  I
am merely getting overanxious.  I read yesterday that "Thela Hun Ginjeet"
might be performed during this leg-kinda threw me off balance.  Support box
office sales.  Give a cold shoulder to Ticket-this, Tele-that, and all
other fascists.


From: "Gary L. Wright" <aglwsa1 at peabody dot sct dot ucarb dot com>
Subject: Various Topics
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:38:39 -0500
Haven't posted for a while, a few random thoughts:

Favorite solos:

I would hazard a guess that Robert's best solo was probably one that was
played in concert, but never recorded.  (Or at least never released.)
The GD box set has some wonderful versions of Easy Money - some of which
are very different from the original version on LTiA.  I personally like
the version on Disk 1, recorded at the Providence, RI concert.  My
personal favorite Fripp solo is on one of the Fripp & Eno albums, I
don't remember the name of the song, but the chorus has something about
"in the cool August moon" or something like that.  This particular solo
reminds me quite a bit of the much-discussed solo at the end of Asbury
Park on the "USA" album.

Asbury Park:

Speaking of which - there has been a great deal of discussion about why
Asbury Park was not included on the GD box set.  There are many
similarities between Asbury Park and the improv piece on GD disc 1
titled "Voyage to the Centre of the Cosmos".  If you listen closely to
the piece, there seems to be many of the same bass and drum lines; and
several of the guitar passages are very similar, although somewhat
extended.  Since this concert was the next-to-the-last concert of this
version of the band; and Robert introduces the song as an improve piece
that they had been working on for "a considerable amount of time", could
one infer that this is actually the final version of Asbury Park?20

The Night Watch:

This has always been one of my favorite KC tunes.  Haunting imagery.  I
recall hearing on the news some time ago that the original painting had
been vandalized.  I believe that someone had broken into the museum where
it was on display and slashed the painting. I wonder if anyone knows about
the current status of the painting?

Putting KC in their Place:

One of my co-workers recently told me that he had bought the Dinosaur
single CD, but was less than impressed by it.  This seemed odd to me
because I though that everyone should have been rather enthusiastic to get
their hands on a live version of "Red". (This was prior to the release of
"B'Boom".)  Then I realized that my co-worker was a fan of the
Discipline-era band and had never even heard "Red" before.  I should
 remember that this forum is comprised of fans of all different versions
of the band and its assorted music; not just those like myself who
started listening in 1974 and haven't quit yet.  With this in mind, I
think it would be interesting to see someone compile a list which would
reflect other music that was popular or released in the same time-frame
as some of the older King Crimson albums.  The purpose of this exercise
would be to demonstrate how far ahead of their time the band has been
(and continues to be) relative to their peers.  (Or at least other
popular musicians.)

Houston Concert

Finally I will get a chance to see this band live.  An avid listener since
1974, I have never seen any version of this band in concert.  I had quite a
time in getting anybody to admit hat they were selling tickets to this
show; but I persevered and got two tickets in row "C".  Rows "A" & "B" were
either being held in reserve, or they had already been sold.  I did not
have any luck in getting tickets for this show through Ticketmaster,
AdvanTix, or through Star Tickets in Austin.  I had to buy tickets in
person, cash-only at either Media Play on South Post Oak Road, or at Sound
Post on Westheimer.  I have never been to the venue at which this concert
is scheduled, but I do know that this area of town is where the Houston
Ballet and the Houston Symphony performs.  Does anyone out there know
anything about the Music Hall in Houston?

Thanks for indulging me.

Gary L. Wright
aglwsa1 at peabody dot sct dot ucarb dot com

"It is impossible
   to achieve the aim
       without suffering"

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:53:53 -0400
From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott)
Subject: Wetton playing in my hometown
John Wetton will play a free benefit concert on Friday the 13th At SUNY
Canton, NY. He will be playing stuff from his new album as well as some
Asia songs. I don't know if he intends to play KC tunes or not. It will be
just JW and an acoustic guitar as far as i can tell. Admission is free but
the audience is asked to bring canned goods to donate to a local
Care-For-The-Poor orgination.  well it's goodbye.

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:56:57 -0400
From: matottls at craft dot camp dot clarkson dot edu (Loren S. Matott)
Subject: RF vs. music industry
I was wondering, exactly what does the disclaimer found on most of
Discpline Cd's means?? It goes something like "The coyright is held by
Discipline Mobile for the artists which whom it resides. DGM does not
accept a practice which was always questionable and is now
indefensible...."  well it's goodbye.



Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 16:56:23 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: KC gig in Yokohama
Comment on Mr H. Yashiro:

I was also at the Kanagawa Ken-min Hall in Yokohama on Oct 1, the first KC
gig in Japan. The Red was superb but so were all the other tunes both new
and old. I'll post a gig review separately but want to say that there are
also thousands of Crimso's here in Japan who appreciate the so-called
second era as written by Mr Yashiro. I was a part of KC gig which took
place at Gotanda, Tokyo 11 years ago. The strength of KC music was obvious
even at that time when Vrooom and Thrak were non-existent.

When my music friend (I was in a band at that time) brought a tape (demo?)
>from somewhere and played (12 years ago before the Descipline was
officially released) in a studio, I was totally shocked to hear the
Elephant Talk and Frame by Frame. Unbelievable was the only thing I could

KC's music evolves and progresses as time pass, but their strength never dies.

A small gig review before a long one:

*RF stood up (!) from his chair two times during the gig when he watched
the interplays of Trey Gunn and Tony Levin on sticks, and interplays of
Bill Bruford and Tony Levin. RF stood up in the dark as if as the TEACHER
was carefully watching his desciples play the tunes. These interplays
were: one before and after Elephant Talk.

*Trey also played mellotron-like sound with his stick during Red.

*CGT played before KC so far in all three gigs.

*Bill Bruford wore ties and jacket in the first two gigs (Oct 1 and 2).

*A. Blew used drilling machine during Thrak in Oct 1 and Oct 3 gigs.

*Stage set: two drums on the right(BB) and left(PM), RF in the middle
between the two drums.
BB, RF and PM on higher-leveled stage box. TL on the front right, AB in the
front middle and TG in the front left. There are platic (?) shields
inbetween PM/RF,RF/BB, BB/TL and TG/PM for probably as sound-buffers.

bye, Tom

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 14:46:32 JST
From: ohsawa at csg dot sony dot co dot jp (T. Ohsawa)
Subject: KC Gig Review Oct 1 in Yokohama
Hi Everybody,

Here's a gig review of KC Japan Tour '95. First, Oct 1 at Kanagawa Ken-min
Hall in Yokohama.

The concert opened with CGT at 18:00 sharp. They played the well-known
songs including the
Beethoven's symphony-turned-guitar score, followed by Ventures' surfing
music at which time all three CGT guys made funny steps forwards/backwards
on stage. They appeared with "The Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome
California Guitar Trio" introduction (a taped announcement?), and
disappeared after the Ventures' without speaking a word. Guys looked much
more confident than I saw them last when they came with Fripp few years
ago. CGT got off stage at around 18:25, the stage was then reorganized
slightly for KC.

KC came on stage 18:30 sharp. There are three plateau-like black boxes set
on stage for PM/RF/BB in that order from left to right. In front of those
boxes, TG, AB, TL (also left to right). There were plastic-like transparent
shields inbetween the players: between TG and PM, PM and RF, RF and BB and
BB and TL. These probably acted as sound buffers.

First, in the dark while there was a tape playing soundscape, Mr RF walked
in from the side to the back part of the stage with his gutar in hand and
then climbed up to the middle box from behind. Audience quickly noticed it
and went wild. It was the first time that I saw RF sitting in the middle of
the band. He was surrounded with various monitors and equipments, one
machine in front of him seemed most important as he touched it from time to
time. RF slowly faded in to the tape-played soundscapes, adding his own.
The light above the audience was still lit at this stage.
The stage is dark. After doing a very short soundscapes, lights go out
totally, TL walks in from the right side and starts playing the stick. Then
BB comes on stage also from the right side and joined in the
improvisation-like soundscapes. PB and TG together appeared from the left
side and joined. At this time TL changed from stick to bass guitar. AB
walked in from the left side. He faced the band members, looking like a
conductor he raised two arms and gave a signal to stop the improvisation.

Vrooom Vrooom began. As I was sitting in the very end row of the first
floor of a large hall, the sound was not good as I expected. But later
after several songs I noticed that the sound became better with more
clarity in the highs and lows. So I guess the engineers changed the mix. In
the beginning the mix was like the CD "Vrooom"  and "Thrak", with less
clarity I thought. But that's not so important. After 11 years, we get to
hear KC live in Japan. That's much more important.

AB didn't speak so much except for Hello and few Thank you's. That's also
OK. It even adds to the feeling that KC is not a pop band, of course.

The density of new KC sound is enormous, probably due to the increase in
number of instruments but also due to the wide musical arrangement made
within the band. TG plays sticks like playing keyboards sometimes. It was
actully difficult to figure out what sound came from his stick but I am
sure that some of keyboard-like sounds come from the stick. TL's bass work
also adds depth to the band. Probably more than 11 years ago, because I see
him use wider range of notes/scale than he did before. Maybe he
intentionally selected the very neccessary notes at the time of Discipline.
He has open up more now.

The second song was Frame by Frame. Audience of course knows the beginning
part of it. They went crazy hearing the first note. I noticed RF's fast
riff behind AB's guitar much less than before. May be it was due to my
seating position. Personally, I like to hear his backing phrase
more clearly.

The third song was Dinosaur. At this moment, the lighting changed
completely. The "eye-like" figures were projected on the back with full of
greenish colors. This matched the music well. I like AB changing his voice
as he shifts from "I'm a Dinosaur" chorus portion to a normal phrasing
section. Any use of equalizers? I don't know.

The fourth song was One Time. A beautiful combination of instruments and
words. The lighting was green leaf-like figures projected on the back of
the stage, which as the song progresses, are moved from the stage to
off-stage to the audience area, giving a fantastic effect. Lighting was
superb here. RF's guitar backing, AB's guitar, TG's stick, TL's bass all go
together very well to form an almost romantic feeling, backed up by steady
yet reserved drumming from BB and PM.

The fifth song was Red. Audience went really crazy. TG played the stick to
give mellotron effect.
AB's guitar replaced the former violin quite well, making use of howling
effect to stretch the sound. Here again, like Vrooom Vrooom, the sound is
dense and heavy but not of course heavy metal. PM's contribution here was
remarkable to me when he joined in from time to time during Red to enhance
the depth of the music: he added a heavy sticky-type of drumming on top of
BB's kind of light/simple drumming. This Red is not the former Red.

After Red, RF goes into soundscapes. Everybody else leaves the stage. Up
until this point, RF rarely got a spot light. Only an occasional side light
effect which flashed his face a little. Most of the audience were unable to
see him. This was obviously intentional. RF sitting in the middle of the
stage with no light. This contrasts to RF's "personal remarks" made in the
brochure they sold during the concert (printed in England: very high
quality color/print work with pictures and a lot of words from RF). In the
brochure RF personally and openly criticized the music critics and music
industry. This highlights him of course. To me it seemed a wise decision
not to spotlight him at all during the whole concert. Though I missed
seeing him playing RF notes on his guitar clearly.
I used vinoculars but even with it it was hard to see RF.

During this soundscapes, RF manipulated the machine in front of him to give
special effects on the sound. After a while, PM and BB came back on stage
>from both sides of the stage. First Pat and then Bill. They started
drumming. The whole sequence was similar to B'Boom but it was a different
version. PM/BB drumming together was powerful and at the same time well
Slowly RF's soundscapes changed and then stopped when the drumming started
to give out the sign that it's drumming time. The drumming part was similar
to B'Boom. Soon after, TL, AB, TG came back. RF was sitting in the dark
silent. All members together they startedd some sort of improvisation which
in the end led to Thrak.

Thrak was very heavy and hard. AB's guitar cuts each "Thrak" shots as TL's
bass ran up and down the scale. AB played 'piano' with his guitar -
synthesized, I guess. It really sounded like a piano.
At the moment when the hole band was heated with strong thrak riffs, AB
brought an electric drilling machine and used it to give special sound on
his guitar: it sounded like drilling.

After this thunderous Thrak, came quiet Matte Kudasai, a Japanese-titled
song. A short yet beautiful song filled the hall. It was a good choice to
bring this after Thrak. You need a rest and comfort after that song.

The next one was Neurotica. AB making ambulance and car sounds. But there
were no words spoken in the beginning part. Only at the end part, AB sung.
Although Neurotica comes from the '80's time, this song belongs to the same
group of LTiA, Red, Vrooom Vrooom and Thrak. That was my impression hearing
it live.

After Neurotica, it was Vrooom. Here TL was most articulate with his bass,
picking heavy low notes. He seemed to enjoy this the most. It's always
amazing to see RF cutting guitar riffs in the back without looking at any
other members even when the total sound phrase changes from one extreme to
the other.

Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream was the next. AB seemed to enjoy singing this
one. Same kind of feeling as Dinosaur when AB changes his voice.

People and Three of a Perfect Pair followed. TG has a solo part in ToaPP.
After this, TL and TG went into interplay with their sticks. This was
similar to Improv - Two Sticks in the CD. RF looked at both as if he were a
Teacher patiently observing the progress of his Disciples. RF actually
stood up from his chair to do so.

The natural development of two sticks doing improvisation was Elephant
Talk, which the audience wanted to hear. There was a big applause and
shouting and screaming. AB's elephant sound was less elephant like than I
heard 11 years ago live. Did he change it? RF's backing guitar riff was
also less apparent. Was this intentional or not? TL's stick was excellent.
You can't do this song without him.

The last song was Indiscipline. Started with BB and TL doing "discipline"
with their instruments, following a difficult-to-remember count. BB was
again very creative with his drums. RF stands up, just like before, to
observe this as a Teacher. RF in total stood up twice. No matter how I
closely looked at it. I remember one thing. RF wore a black vest and white
shirt. It remain(ed) consistent (during Oct 1 - 3). But

I like it!

Then, a wild applause, standing ovation. Screaming. AB,TL,TG, BB, PM and
lastly RF came in the front of the stage, in a line, smiling to audience/AB
and RFshaking hands/smiling to each other,
all lights on. Standing there for a while, then splits into two groups: one
for the right, one for the left side of the stage.

Encore, of course.

On the darkened stage, two set of medium-sized drums are brought in. Also
three sets of small
percussion instruments. All set in the front middle part of the stage.
Audience was really wondering what would happend next. Then BB. PM and AB
walked in. They started to drum together.
This was not an improvisation. But I haven't heard it yet in any CD's. Did
they make this during their tour? How was it in Europe and the States? BB
was standing in the middle, PM on the right and AB in the left. They mixed
the drums with the small percussions (the name I do not know) and the
rhythm was great. The audience enjoyed when BB said "Hai" (Yes, in
Japanese) outloud when he gave a sign to reconvene with the drumming by the
three. Another big applause when the session ended.

KC then started Talking Drum shorter version, which led to Lark's Tougue in
Aspic Part II. The RF's phrase that connects Talking Drum with LTiAPII was
absolutely amazing. You know which part I'm taking about. RF is always
great in inventing these amazing connecting guitar phrases which no-one in
the world could think of: and it's not even improvized though it sounds
like it came from nowhere.

When LTiAPII ended, the hall seemed to have its own life. KC members again
lined up front, looked at each other, looked at the audience and we enjoyed
the invisible shake-hands between the audience and the KC. When they
disappeared, audience asked for more.

KC came back with Walking on Air, another favorite of mine. It's nice to
end the concert this way than with the bombardment of heavy sounds smashing
the walls.

At the end of the song, TL, BB, AB, PM, TG all left the stage (still dark).
RF stayed on a little longer. In the end, RF's soundscapes which he used
for this song remained until the audience left the hall.

Bye, Tom

Subject: Crimson Live In Japan
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 13:06:05 +0900
From: Takaaki Higuchi - Marketing <thiguchi at sparc dot Japan dot Sun dot COM>
I think now it's the time to post a short review of Japan Lives.

					rate :-)
10/1(Yokohama-Kanagawa Kenmin Hall)	75
10/2(Shinjuku-Kousei Nenkin Hall)	90
10/3(Shinjuku-Kousei Nenkin Hall)	85
10/5(Nakano-Sunplaza Hall)		93

In Yokohama, their play seemed perfectly, but not powerfully.
I don't know they were still in the jet lag :-)
Also the sound balance in the hall was not good.

In Shinjuku, the sounds became better than in Yokohama.
Though at the 2nd gig in Shinjuku, their play was worse than
previous one. It is reportedly they had a meeting after the

In Nakano, it sounded best in these gigs. Though there were
rough plays I found, it seemed the powers exceeded the misses.
So I rated this gig is also the best play in these.
|This gig will be on air in Japan (WOWOW - satelite pay TV).|
This is why I come to think I must post :-)

There remains 7 lives in Japan.
	10/6(Nakano-Sunplaza Hall)
	10/10(Tokyo-Hitomi memorial Hall)
	10/12(Omiya-Omiya Sonic Hall)
	10/14(Shinjuku-Kousei Nenkin Hall)
Since I will go all of these too, I will make a full report of Japan
gigs in the future.

I am also a big fun of C.G.T. Their play also became better
day by day.

Takaaki Higuchi (thiguchi at japan dot sun dot com)
Nihon Sun Microsystems K.K.



From: "Peter" <pes94001 at uconnvm dot uconn dot edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:19:40 +0000
Subject: FS:  1 ticket for New Haven
I have an extra ticket for the 11/18 show in New Haven at the Palace.
Third row, a little too far to the right, but otherwise perfect.  If
anyone's interested, e-mail me!  It was $33.50 all said.

Maybe after the show we can get backstage and slap some sense into
the boys!  I'm only 21 and I STILL remember when it was a big deal to
pay $20 to go to a concert.


Mike Stok